Knees

[Newbie from Oz]

Has anyone else got bad knees from doing their kung fu? I think that I have strained my PCL from having my knees over the front of my toes in ma bu stance.

Is this a common occurence?

[johngreenhow]

Yep, I had a lot of trouble just walking about for a month or so at one point. Combination of low stances, training with leg-weights on (and running with them) and not stopping when I should have done. Never found ma bu a problem. Shu-bu, on the other hand...

Fine now, but I can't run as often any more either. If it gets too much now I just work on hand-only drills in shallow stances and practice taiji.

To ease up on the knees, slow down and build strength. Lose weight if you have to and make sure you have your stances correct.

[Newbie from Oz]

Indeed, I am pulling apart my fundamentals at the moment to make sure the mechanics are right (take the strain off the joints where possible). I was probably being a little sloppy for a while there, but I have a good incentive to fix things now before they go too far.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hi Newbie from Australia,

Welcome to the forum. Hey, I'm pretty new to shaolin kung fu myself but under the guidence of Blooming Lotus, I've begun to learn more. She's also quite knowledgable in other MA, such as Wing Chun, Aikido or Dim Mak if your skill level is high enough to comprehend.

Hope you enjoy your stay. Not everyone is this friendly and I wasn't surprised that not more members have posted their concerns about your knees.

Sorry to hear about your knees, having they further than your toes is certainly a bad thing.

[HanRen]

I know what are you talking about, knee problems. You need to do knee bench press and standing knee stretch to warm up your knees. BTW I am also weight lifter and runner so I too facing the problem, espcially doing squat and HIIT. Anyways, here it is, Knee bench press, sit on the floor, relax both of your legs, bend both of your ankles inward (to a comfortable and relax feeling), when inward place one foot on the top of another (like cake layers, one on another), now you have one foot one top the bottom foot, push the top foot out(not towards your body but outward) and your bottom foot push towards you, then you should feel pressure of your knees (remember your legs are straight), and change sides (count to 20) do that twice on both sides. Ok after that do standing knee stretch, stand up, have both of your legs stright and close to each other. forward both of your arms out and touch the wall (to balance your body), and raise both of your ankles up towards your face, you should fell your knee and other part of legs in action. try them, it works for me, after the stretch I usually do some light kicking(I found out that do front kick will be very good warm up) so front kick, light and begin fast...and so on. hope this will help. GL

[norther practitioner]

Increasing the strength of the surrounding muscles will help a lot.

How do you know it is your PCL?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

HanRen,

Do you know of websites or videos of the exercises you so described?

[mickey]

Greetings,

You should try strengthening your hamstring muscles(especially),your quadriceps, your abdominals, and your lower back muscles. Your body is shifting forward because one or both of these areas is/are weak, causing your quadriceps to take the load. Your knees can't take that and they are going on strike.

When your lower body is adequately strengthened, you will be able to "sink" into a stance instead the usual "forward slide to a lean" that plagues many practitioners.

mickey

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
HanRen,

Do you know of websites or videos of the exercises you so described? Why? You planning on getting out of that wheelchair anytime soon? :rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

i have had bad knees before i started kung fu from a track injury. kung fu has helped it a bit but they still hurt every now and then.

[Judge Pen]

I have had significant knee problems because of accidents during kung fu, but my stance work, drilling, and stretching have only strengthened my knees. The danger is, though, if your mechanics aren't right then you can do more harm then good, and some people sacrifice mechanics to try to go lower etc. Just back up and look at your mechanics and see if that helps. If not, you may have pre-existing knee problems.

[HanRen]

Ego_Extrodinaire sorry I couldnt find the websites. I lost the the link, I think it was posted on "runner's mag." but I will keep looking if I find it I will post it here or pm you if you like.

[Newbie from Oz]

Nothern Practitioner:

"How do you know it is your PCL?"

I have asked a couple of people with experience in this area, however no-one with serious credientials which I will do shortly.

I have been doing extra stretching lately as I was told that it may have been due to a lack of flexibility also (seems to have releaved some of the strain as I don't get a pain when walking down inclines now). Strengthen and lengthen is always a good thing, so I will continue with that, will have to find a few more helpful exercises...

Thanks for the replies.

[norther practitioner]

I just ask because PCL injuries are infrequent unless you are a 14-18 year old girl...

I have actually injured my PCL (once in left knee), MCL, and ACL (in both knees several times) due to skiing and kung fu. Next week I go to the doctor again to get a refferal to the specialist (**** HMOs).... Either way, I've had them looked at several times to say the least. I'd recomend going to the doctor as soon as possible to at least get a diagnosis. I've been somewhat fortunate as to never fully tear any of my ligaments, avoiding surgery. Unfortunately, my newest issue with my knees, is what I thought was a pulled muscle, however it has lingered for a few months, and seems to be a tendon attaching one of my hamstrings. Fun, I'm hoping to get another MRI or CT scan this time, to see what the hell is going on....

[David Jamieson]

A lot of people get problems from practicing martial arts.

One of the reasons is that that is all they do. What I mean by that is people go to class 2 or 3 times a week, work hard for a couple of hours or so and then for the rest of the week are fairly sedate in their lifestyle.

Taking the car to the corner grocery instead of walking, sitting on the duff watching the idiot box or even working 8 hours with your ass stuffed in a task chair stairing at a computer all day and then BANG! Off to class to bring stress and duress to your body.

Well, something has got to give ain't it?

Do more exercise. Walk more than you do now. Go to the gym and workout there as well as doing kungfu. Practice more with teh kungfu you have been taught already, not just walk throughs of forms, but really practice. The more you bring all of it into all of yoru life, the less likely it is that you will suffer from these problems longer than the short term beginners creaks and groans syndrome.

[GeneChing]

The change in the weather is bad for my knees and I'm just starting to feel the fall. I'd attribute it more to fencing than kung fu though. Kung fu is demanding on the knees, for sure, but not as bad as some other things. I've always thought that it was cultural - most Chinese squat when they eliminate, which means they squat every day for a while. That builds strong knees.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Kung Lek: Thats one of the most down to earth posts ive read on this forum.

Good advice that probably wont really be noticed, since it actually requires getting off the bum and away from the pretty screens.

[David Jamieson]

pld- thanks I do my best to crack out a pungent idea once and a while. :)

Gene- I agree, barometric pressure affects the joints in everyone, It's just more noticable in quasi old fellas like yourself (or me :p ) as well as teh aged or infirm if they do not build up strength throughout life.

Long slow steady progress will lead to better overall strength. Persistence and commitment to the objective are key.

But that's kungfu for ya.

cheers

[Newbie from Oz]

Well I normally train 3-4 days in the week, but lately because of my knee only once or twice a week, also do a bit at home on the off days.

For the last few weeks I have been stretching 30-40 minutes each night which seems to be helping. I will keep this up.

I think it is mainly to do with the very low stances of Long Fist as I did a year and a half of a more upright Southern style and didn't have this problem.

I will definitely work on strength once I have my knee sorted out.

Maybe I just need to squat more when I evacuate...

[BM2]

I read that the Chinese who squat while waiting have higher arthitis rates in their knees versus those who stand. It was in the newspaper a few months back. I also wondered if they were squating with their knees over their toes and putting more pressure on the knee.