Good Kung Fu places in Austin, TX?

[Reggie1]

I'm very new to the Kung Fu world, but am planning on commiting a great deal of time to learning the art. I live in Austin, TX, are there any good places here to learn?

[CaptinPickAxe]

Plenty.

Shuai Chiao:
www.combatshuaichiao.com

Taijiquan and Elephant Kung Fu:
www.taichiherb.com

and tons and tons of BJJ.

Just look.

[Reggie1]

It looks like there are three that I have found so far:

Shaolin-Do, which appears to be a little questionable

Central Texas Kung-Fu, taught by Sifu Jeff Hughes. He teaches the 7* Praying Mantis system

East Wind Training Hall, specializine in the Northern Tiger system (Ling family Tiger system)

[CaptinPickAxe]

A lot of people here feel that the lineage of Shaolin-Do is dubious. If you want to stick up for your art and endure the battery of most on this board, go for it! There was a white belt BJJ guy who was beaten by Joe Schaffer's 5th Degree black belt from bullshido, but he also beat a 3rd Degree. (Don't ask about Belts in Kung Fu...thats a whole nother can of worms)

I've met some of the Mantis cats at some parties up there, and they seem to know their stuff.

I know nothing about the Tiger school...

As is the truth with all martial arts, check it out before passing judgment.

[Reggie1]

This is good stuff. That's what bugs me about Shaolin-Do--if you have a good art, why bother with the questionable history? It just seems a little too far-fetched for me.

[CaptinPickAxe]

No problem. let us know how it goes. I'm from San Antonio so just drop me a line if you wanna spar with me and a few of the Shuai Chiao players.

[Reggie1]

I'll let you know how it's going--thanks again for the help. I think I'll wait a while to take you up on the sparring, I'm pretty out of shape.

[CaptinPickAxe]

LOL. I've been outta practice for the last two months but I stay up on my Bag work and try to stay in shape best as possible. MeatShake and a few of his "Throwing Dummies" are in pretty good fighting condition...its alright though. I've already killed MS with the "7 points of delayed death that doesn't seem like death" attack.

[Judge Pen]

That's what bugs me about Shaolin Do too. :D

But CPA, they were both 2nd degree blacks FWIW.

Reggie good luck on finding a good school down there. From what you've said I wouldn't recommend SD to you, and I'm one of the ones that can endure the battery from most on this board. I will say that in my experience SD is wonderful to get you into shape and it can train you to fight as well as any TMA school, but there's a lot of riff-raff to weed through in the process.

[Reggie1]

I might try out SD for a while to get the hang of things first, being that I'm relatively new to the martial arts world. I just don't want to spend a lifetime training on something that's not all it's cracked up to be.

[Judge Pen]

My advice to you is to not worry about learning any specialty forms. Some of the larger SD schools, like Austin, offer all kinds of specilaty classes and forms. Ignore them. Stick with the basics and drill, drill, drill. Master the basic materials and force yourself to use them sparring. The short forms are the key and the sparring techniques are only standarized "suggestions" to teach you how to apply your short forms in your sparring.

The animal forms are pretty good, but keep in mind that not everyone understands the nuiances of the different animals. Because of that they can run together at times.

Try it through 3rd brown and keep forcing yourself to pay attention to the basics and you will get a good foundation if you wanted to then go to a less controversial MA.

[Meat Shake]

Master John Wang and Sifu Paul Gerald have a school over off of manchaca I believe. If you want to learn how to fight, go there. I believe he teaches Wing Chun, or maybe tsun, I dont know and dont care... Also teaches 7* praying mantis, savate, and shuai chiao. Master Wang also knows a little baji from what I understand....
If you want to learn how to fight well in a short amount of time, go there.
If your goals are more oriented towards health, go somewhere else. They fight pretty full contact, but the material is fantastic. Tons of really aggressive throws.

I cant really say I know too much about the 7* or tiger schools up there, but I know they exist. Make sure they actually fight if thats what your goals are... There is also a pretty good eagle claw school from what I understand...

[Reggie1]

I'm interested in a good mix of both. I'm doing it for my health, but I also want to learn how to fight and a system I can stick with for a lifetime. So basically, I want the best of all worlds.:D

[MasterKiller]

Central Texas mantis has hot chicks. We compete against them in most of the tournaments every year.

[Reggie1]

The South Austin SD has some pretty good ones, too. I took a class there a while back and the scenery sure was nice.

Meat, are you an SD person?

[Judge Pen]

Meat used to be SD, but now does Shuai Chiao.

I've met a couple of the Texas SD women and was impressed by their, um, level of conditioning.

[sean_stonehart]

Yes... I'm sure that's what impressed you... :cool:

[qauntum2]

Judge Pen, as a former SD'er (years and years ago), I really appreciated your advice about sticking with the basics. That's the key to really appreciate the advanced stuff later on down the line!!

[Li Kao]

Jeff Hughes at Central Texas Kung Fu is an excellent teacher. I believe he also teaches Hung Gar. His mantis sifu has also studied under my old mantis sifu, so I have met him through various tournaments and gatherings, in a 7 * mantis setting. He is very passionate and if you are looking for something more in the traditional vein, please check him out.

[Judge Pen]

Thanks quantum2. Where do you train now? Send me a PM is you want.

[lxtruong]

Yo. I have a few comments to make: (full disclosure: I'm a current Shaolin-Do student in Austin, although I did previously train in TKD back in college).

1. I'm a big believer in judging a school with your own eyes, so take any stories that you hear with a grain of salt. Of course, if you hear someone saying they were ripped off or otherwise mistreated, that's a different story.

2. I'm not sure exactly what "riff-raff" that Judge Pen was talking about, but I can tell you what you most likely will and will not find:
You WILL find:
a. Beginner level forms. Don't expect the stuff you learn in the first 18 months to be super flashy. Like basics of all martial arts, the basics are boring.
b. Students of varying levels. All schools have "good" and "bad" senior students. Don't expect every black belt to be able to walk on water or kick your butt.
c. An over-all inviting atmosphere. Of course there are some people in the school that I personally don't enjoy, you'll find that people in general are quite friendly.

You will NOT find:
a. A "small school" atmosphere....at least at the North Austin SD school. The school is big, I think last I heard was at 350+ students. It's not "Cheers" not everyone will know your name.
b. Too much hand-holding when it comes to techniques. See (a). If you need help, of course you're always welcome to ask around though.
c. Very many people who give a rat's ass about wether or not it's TCMA or whatever other acronym you want to apply

3. Whatever art you choose be it us or whomever, my advice first and foremost is always: "basic skills first". Punch and kick, wash rinse repeat. Oh, and I've heard of some ridiculous prices at some TKD places or whatever. Don't overpay.

Anyway, have fun whereever you choose.

[Judge Pen]

Lxtruong, by "riff-raff" I was referring to the controversy around SD, it's history, lineage, etc. I've worked out with some of your students and met Master Schaffer before and I have respect for the school you all have down there.

[Reggie1]

Thanks lxtruong. I would be at the South Austin school--I live and work on that side of town. From the classes I've been to so far, it definitely has more of a 'small' feel to it (only about 10 people in my class).

[The Willow Sword]

I am a former SD Guy (2nd degree black) dont get sucked in to thier BS Reggie,, if you want some real stuff from a legitamate teacher and system,,,,go check out Master Li Jun Feng at the austin academy of oriental medicine on Anderson Ln. he also teaches tai chi and qiqong,,and was also Jet Li's instructor for quite some time.

you have other options like Paul Huangs school (chang style tai chi and the elephant style kung fu) there is also Jeff hughes school(if he is still around, and he is a mantis guy,,an honorable person) And there is also the ,"East Wind" school,,they are a Shaolin Tiger school)

PM me if you want to further chat.

Peace,,TWS

['MegaPoint]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
That's what bugs me about Shaolin Do too. :D

But CPA, they were both 2nd degree blacks FWIW.

Reggie good luck on finding a good school down there. From what you've said I wouldn't recommend SD to you, and I'm one of the ones that can endure the battery from most on this board. I will say that in my experience SD is wonderful to get you into shape and it can train you to fight as well as any TMA school, but there's a lot of riff-raff to weed through in the process.

JP said: "...as well as ANY TMA school"? Uhh, a little all-encompassing if you axe me. If you want to be particular, you can say that your statement means Shaolin Do $ucks, because most MAs, traditional or otherwise (and instructors), are none-too-good=WHAAACK.

From what I've seen of Shaolin Do, it looks a lot like broke "Shotokan't", so maybe you guys should call it "Shaolin DOn't". Anywhat, isn't "Shaolin" and "Do" kinda' weird together? Shouldn't it be "Dao/Tao"? It's like saying "Chinese Kempo". Oh yeah, that's another fake style, huh?

Good luck on your search and don't limit your training to Chinese only. Look for styles and teachers who don't $uck.

[CaptinPickAxe]

...and once again the tireless cycle of bickering about Shaolin-Do begins...

[The Willow Sword]

............and once again the tireless cycle of rationalizing the BS that is SD begins.;)

[lxtruong]

How tiresome...

I don't really know how anyone can say anything about any school in particular one way or another based on a couple of websites or what someone else says. Just go in and take a look for yourself. Even then you can only really judge on the quality of the students and teachers of that particular school. There are good shaolin-do schools and bad shaolin-do schools, just like there are good TKD schools and bad TKD schools.

I'm not even going to discuss the other comments, partially because I don't care, and partially because I know people are very ready to hate on Shaolin-Do anyway. I just say judge for yourself, and ignore what most everyone else says.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I'm ex-Shaolin-Do. I'm keeping my mouth shut for the sake of this forum...

Many others here are ex-shaolin-doers so they may not be as uneducated to the subject as they seem.

We've affectionatly named Shaolin-Do "Kung Fungus" its growing everywhere.

[CaptinPickAxe]

also we wouldn't be biased without reason...

[Judge Pen]

'megapoint I didn't "axe" you. :D

No one here wants to go round and round on the SD train. I know many ex-SDers here and I know and understand the reasons they left. Many were personal and many were for the problems in the system. I myself are critical of several things and vocal about my criticism. The key is to stay adult and objective (which we have been on this topic for a while now).

[Reggie1]

Wow, looks like there's a lot of emotion on the board about this stuff.

Just to update, if anybody's interested, I ended up signing up with Sifu Jeff Hughes and his 7* Mantis school. I'm going to try it out for 6 months and see what I think. They appear to be a very good school, and are very serious. They really kick your butt hard and in only 30 minutes for the basic class!

Thanks everybody for your posts, everything all of you wrote helped me decide on a school.

[Brad]

There are good shaolin-do schools and bad shaolin-do schools, just like there are good TKD schools and bad TKD schools.
No they pretty much all suck
:D

[Judge Pen]

Brad, how close are you to Columbus?

[MonkeySlap Too]

I would of course, suggest John Wang's school. Be wary of your first choice, as it will affect all your future choices.

I've had so many students come to me with years of baggage from other groups, that was frankly, hard to get out of thier skulls. If you spend 5 years learning how to exorcise spirits, and think that will help with learning surgery, you are hopelessly deluded.

Why do something that is okay, but questionable, when good stuff is readily available?

Well, my opinions of SD are pretty well known... TWS deserves some real credit because he went through the painful process, and put his beleifs on the line. Instead of retreating into his shell, he picked himself up and moved on.

MS and CPA are also examples of folks who got a look see for themselves.

Personally, much as I like Judge Pen, I can't reccomend SD.

[Judge Pen]

Fair enough MS2.

In my first post in this thread I didn't recommend SD to Reggie either. It seemed like he was looking for something else. I stand by my opinion that SD can be as good as any TCMA if you train in it properly, forget about learning anything but the core material (at least until the black ranks), drill your material into your sparring, and keep out of the politics of SD. But that's just the path I took when I started SD.

[lxtruong]

Question: when you guys say you think shaolin-do is "questionable", are you speaking of things such as lineage, etc or acutal content?

For instance ,suppose we took all our katas, renamed them, went back to being called "Sin The Karate", and never spoke the words shaolin or kung fu ever again, would it still be "questionable"?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
suppose we took all our katas, renamed them, went back to being called "Sin The Karate", and never spoke the words shaolin or kung fu ever again, would it still be "questionable"? Well, that would answer all the questions....

[Reggie1]

MS2, did you have any information on John Wang? Style, location, website, etc. Anything would be helpful.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by lxtruong
Question: when you guys say you think shaolin-do is "questionable", are you speaking of things such as lineage, etc or acutal content?

Yes...


Originally posted by lxtruong
For instance ,suppose we took all our katas, renamed them, went back to being called "Sin The Karate", and never spoke the words shaolin or kung fu ever again, would it still be "questionable"?

Mostly but then you'd have the Japanese & Okinawan groups on your butt. The American contingent would probably dig the hell out of it though.

Mind you... I'm ex-SD as well & from a group that some people wished would go away so ours was decidedly different than most...

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Yes...



Mostly but then you'd have the Japanese & Okinawan groups on your butt. The American contingent would probably dig the hell out of it though.

Mind you... I'm ex-SD as well & from a group that some people wished would go away so ours was decidedly different than most...

Haha, fair enough. So you're saying someone will always find an issue. This is why I'm asking. If you guys have problems with actual content, I'd be willing to discuss. I'm not going into the same tired old arguments about lineage, because I don't care and I don't see why other people care so much about it. If the only issues that you're going to bring up are "it's kempo, not kung fu" or "blah blah blah Sin The is a liar" then we don't really have anything to talk about, do we?

[Meat Shake]

"Question: when you guys say you think shaolin-do is "questionable", are you speaking of things such as lineage, etc or acutal content?"

All of the above.


"For instance ,suppose we took all our katas, renamed them, went back to being called "Sin The Karate", and never spoke the words shaolin or kung fu ever again, would it still be "questionable"? "

Id call that honest. It doesnt have to be kung fu to be a good martial art, and SD doesnt really hold true to many if any kung fu theories... And the Yang Taiji has nothing to do with Yang Taiji... Doesnt mean you cant learn something valuable if trained correctly, but its also not really kung fu, but once again who cares? My opinions on the system are already known and dont need to be rehashed. Im simply responding to the question posted by lxtruong.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by lxtruong
Haha, fair enough. So you're saying someone will always find an issue. This is why I'm asking. If you guys have problems with actual content, I'd be willing to discuss. I'm not going into the same tired old arguments about lineage, because I don't care and I don't see why other people care so much about it. If the only issues that you're going to bring up are "it's kempo, not kung fu" or "blah blah blah Sin The is a liar" then we don't really have anything to talk about, do we?

Basically yes. Because of the history & background of all involved, the claims & allegations there will always be a lack of credibility with the majority of people in the CMA community.

Certain individuals may be exempt from this because of their individual actions that tend to cause the political machine within SD to try everything possibly to exclude & evict from it. Those individuals have a tendancy to look around, see what else is out there & attempt damage control to a degree for the good of their own school. Ultimately those attempts, if enough are tried will actually tend to mend & heal some of the damge done. However, it normally only takes one person in a position of enough public prominence to shoot it down.

Just my opinion.... not that it matters a hill of beans.

[MonkeySlap Too]

www.combatshuaichiao.com or i beleive Wang sifu's website is (unfortunately) Johnswang.com. If you want to learn how to defend yourself, that is a good place to do it. But it is not for the feint of heart. Paul Gerald reminds me of me in my younger days. Very focused on the hard stuff...

I pretty much agree with Meat Shakes comments. I'm looking forward to meeting Judge Pen some day, as it will probably answer some of my questions insofar as what SD is. But most of the SD I've seen first hand, wasn't CMA and it wasn't very good for fighting. What it is good for, I don't know. Keep in mind that I'm sure somone in that group should be able to fight... just how efficient of a teaching method is it?

One rule of thumb... don't beleive anyone who claims many systems that feature differing body mechanics. You can't do them all very well. Find schools that focus on a few things and do them well, then cross-train with other schools that do the things your school does not do well. No school does everything well. When picking a school, know why you are training. What is your goal? Then evaluate the school based upon these objectives.

[Judge Pen]

MS2, I'd say you need to meet my teachers to get a good evaluation of what SD is and isn't. I just talk a good game on the computer. :)

I've met a few that post here and I'm confident to think that they consider me a student of kung fu (and not necessarily a good student), BUT that's a far cry from saying that SD is kung fu. I'm not shy on my opinions that SD is and is not "kung fu." I think what we are taught came from China. I think it has evolved into something different than its origins. I think that the principles are there, but I don't think that they are always taught properly. This doesn't mean it can't be taught properly. It doesn't mean it is never taught properly.

As far as those that have experience in SD and other arts, I respect their opinions. Some more than others, but that comes from my familiarity with them and my knoweldge of their SD experience.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Basically yes. Because of the history & background of all involved, the claims & allegations there will always be a lack of credibility with the majority of people in the CMA community.

Certain individuals may be exempt from this because of their individual actions that tend to cause the political machine within SD to try everything possibly to exclude & evict from it. Those individuals have a tendancy to look around, see what else is out there & attempt damage control to a degree for the good of their own school. Ultimately those attempts, if enough are tried will actually tend to mend & heal some of the damge done. However, it normally only takes one person in a position of enough public prominence to shoot it down.

Just my opinion.... not that it matters a hill of beans.

Shhh. :D

[CaptinPickAxe]

I can't say that SD is the incarnate of evil...It does produce some good fighters and knowledgeable players. The only real gripe with people here is it claims to be something it is quite obviously not.

Put it this way. You get people like JP who are intellegent and open minded to martial arts in general. Then you get your stereotypical SDer who has his blinders on because he was told "not to show anyone anything from the ciriculum, and Sin The is the l33t Kung Fu Ma5t3r"

It all returns to this:
I depends on who is teaching you, how much effort you put into your training, and how you train.

My experience with SD is bad, but not because of the MA, but because of my teacher (who in essence is one hell of a nice guy, but severely misinformed)

As I said again, go to the kwoon, check it out, and make a decision based on your opinion. Basically all you'll get here is politics.

Now, on to Shuai Chiao. SC is not for everyone. If you can handle getting spiked into the ground 30-50 time every class in exchange for some kick ass training on how to fight. Then this is the place for you. You WILL get hurt. You WILL hurt others, but if you stick with it and follow your instructors teaching closely (P.S. Master Wang is the Shiznit!) you shouldn't have more than some sore ribs and a bruised ego from getting your ass handed to you by someone twice your senior.

[Brad]

Brad, how close are you to Columbus?

I live just outside Columbus, in Worthington... though I think we're technically still considered Columbus. So pretty close... unless you're like me and without wheels... it's kind of a far walk :p You ever make it up here?

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, I do. The woman I'm dating has family in Columbus. Next time I'm up we should touch base although it will probably be in the "crutches" stage of my recovery so that's no fun.

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
The only real gripe with people here is it claims to be something it is quite obviously not.


Well then, we're all good. Like I said before, I'm not interested in arguing linege or whatnot. I'll choose to believe Grandmaster Sin, you can choose not to.


Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Put it this way. You get people like JP who are intellegent and open minded to martial arts in general. Then you get your stereotypical SDer who has his blinders on because he was told "not to show anyone anything from the ciriculum, and Sin The is the l33t Kung Fu Ma5t3r"


I have to say that I'm a proponent of the 'dont' show anyone anything from the cirriculum' school. Although I guess it depends on your definition of the word "show". I don't see any problem with demonstrating, but teaching is of course a different issue. When you teach someone else katas, you're essentially stealing a potential student away from your teacher. Plus, you're giving away material that really isn't yours to give.

And Grandmaster Sin is the 133t |<|_||\|g f|_| m4s73r. j/k


Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
It all returns to this:
I depends on who is teaching you, how much effort you put into your training, and how you train.

My experience with SD is bad, but not because of the MA, but because of my teacher (who in essence is one hell of a nice guy, but severely misinformed)

As I said again, go to the kwoon, check it out, and make a decision based on your opinion. Basically all you'll get here is politics.


Yes yes and yes, I totally agree. All we're doing on this message board is blowing smoke out of our ass anyway.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Well then, we're all good. Like I said before, I'm not interested in arguing linege or whatnot. I'll choose to believe Grandmaster Sin, you can choose not to.


Reply: Well, that is fine and good. Unfortunately you can choose to belleive the moon is made of cheese too, but that does not make it so. When there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence against something, a certain amount of doubt may be in order.

[MonkeySlap Too]

For those that care, there is an intertesting discussion of SD "Hsing Yi" on Empty Flower.

[The Willow Sword]

Sd Hsing- i is what i was most interested in at the school at the time,,that and thier bagua,,until i learned that both of those forms taught at SD were taken from another source and modified to look unique to them(this is what i was told from a very credible source)

hey man even if we dont agree politically we can still agree on this subject. i have shed all of those forms now. i dont even do them anymore,,i still go through some of the hsing i routines that i learned there,,but i have had to modify those to actually correct them....my modifications have come form sun lu tangs style and through what i remember of my previous teacher before SD.


Peace,,TWS

[The Willow Sword]

there is a video clip showing a rather horrible demo of the 5 fist linkage form.

i never even did the form like that,,hahaha. Yes the hsing i there is NOT good hsing i.

[Judge Pen]

Very credible sources that shall remain anonymous. Just like Dan Rather. :D

[MonkeySlap Too]

JP - s if I accept TWS word on this, I'm hypocrite for the Rather thing? Ah, I'd rather not..

But TWS did put up, and act like a man, so politics aside, and internet aurguments aside, he's a good guy in my book. That's the great thing about a semi-functioning democracy, we can disagree, but still have beers.

It is just overwhelming the amount of concensus on what SD is not. But what is it?

TWS - your inbox is full...

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
Well then, we're all good. Like I said before, I'm not interested in arguing linege or whatnot. I'll choose to believe Grandmaster Sin, you can choose not to.


Reply: Well, that is fine and good. Unfortunately you can choose to belleive the moon is made of cheese too, but that does not make it so. When there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence against something, a certain amount of doubt may be in order.

Well, because honestly I don't really care all that much. I know that Grandmaster Sin is a good guy, so I believe that what he tells us is the truth. I also believe that even if it were not the truth, there was probably a honest mistake somewhere along the way (i.e. I don't think he's the type to decieve us). None of this changes the fact that I go into class and I learn my katas and I punch and kick and I enjoy it the entire time. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.

[MasterKiller]

Do you think he really melted a baby with his bare hands? Or is that an honest mistake?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Have some kool-aid, then.

[Judge Pen]

MS2, I don't fault TWS for putting his money where his mouth is. I really wasn't being too hard on him with his last comment either. What he said was tantamount to me saying I've checked my black tiger forms with credible sources, and they say it's the same. (I haven't done this btw). It may or may not be true, but we won't know as long as the source is anonymous. It's the curse of the internet.

MK, GM Sin The didn't melt a baby. His first teacher burned a baby after training in sand burn in Indonesia. If your going to make fun, then make fun of the proper people! :D

I will echo something that Lxtroung said: If these myths were propagated down to us through GM The, then I believe that they were taught to him as the truth by his teachers. He is a very jovial and loquacious man, but I don't think he is the author of all the fishy stuff in the history of SD.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
MK, GM Sin The didn't melt a baby. His first teacher burned a baby after training in sand burn in Indonesia. If your going to make fun, then make fun of the proper people! :D In the DVD "At the Feet of the Grandmaster" Sin The' says he melted a baby with his own hands after doing Iron Palm training. No?

[Judge Pen]

No. It's easy to misunderstand him with his accent. It was his first teacher. He was supposedly handed his baby after training, but his hands were still hot and the baby died from the burns. He stopped training so GM Sin had to find a new teacher. He found Master Ie.

[MasterKiller]

But he says he melted a baby.

Your saying he really meant something else, but that's what he says, right?

[Chang Style Novice]

If only the baby had had a hard candy coating, this tragedy could have been prevented.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
But he says he melted a baby.

Your saying he really meant something else, but that's what he says, right?

I've read this story in the article from IKF in 1987 and heard it straight from his mouth. I'm 100 % sure of this point.

CSN, LMAO!

[MonkeySlap Too]

JP - I was trying to be a little funny - I gave TWS a hard time over the source of the CBS forgeries... so to accept another statement would be questionable on my part. But I also wanted to point out that I respected TWS, even though I find myself giving him crap on almost anything. It's a friendly debate, I think.

Wait! Is that the sound of willows I hear?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Wasn't baby melting the main reason the PRC killed or jailed so many traditional martial arts masters during the cultural revolution?





Can't wait to see this become a 'fact' in OYD or somewhere...















I

[Chang Style Novice]

My baby melting technique is too deadly for the ring.

90% of all melting babies go to the ground.

In a baby-melting fight, one guy goes to the hospital and one guy goes to the cemetary.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
JP - I was trying to be a little funny - I gave TWS a hard time over the source of the CBS forgeries... so to accept another statement would be questionable on my part. But I also wanted to point out that I respected TWS, even though I find myself giving him crap on almost anything. It's a friendly debate, I think.

Wait! Is that the sound of willows I hear?

Ah, ok. I thought you were taking what I said has an attack on TWS, and it wasn't meant to be that at all.

[joedoe]

Always fun to watch our annual SD bash. :D

[Fred Sanford]

Well, because honestly I don't really care all that much. I know that Grandmaster Sin is a good guy, so I believe that what he tells us is the truth. I also believe that even if it were not the truth, there was probably a honest mistake somewhere along the way (i.e. I don't think he's the type to decieve us).

LOL

funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

[The Willow Sword]

i did not take offense to any of it, so no worries. hehehe JP nice reply. yeah well my credible source is in the ng family system,,information was relayed to me about the pakua that SD does. but i twas relayed to me AFTER i had quit and absolved myself. i never really knew any of the "*******izations" until i got out and then the information started flowing like a river. then the true identity of the Hairy grandmanster came to light(which some of the people in the Sd realm will deny and say,,"that person looks nothing like GM Su,,when in fact they aree the same person)

i dont mind talking about it now......i did my research thoroughly and it just confirmed what i was being told by concerned allies all along. anyway it is neither here nor there,,i dont support SD i will steer ANYONE away from the SD school if they ask ME about joining the school,,whether my reasons are personal or other wise is of no consequence. i Always knew that Sd wasnt totally a CMA school,,in fact i accepted that it wasnt but i had to keep my mouth shut and i had to watch what i said for fear of being scrutinized like i was back in the day when they thought i was some "spy"(because of my prior affiliation with an Ng family teacher) coming to steal thier forms,,LOL what a riot,,,i look back on that particular incident and just laugh my a$$ off.
Hey at the time all i was wanting to do was learn to be a teacher of martial arts, learn the internals and be a part of a school that would help me in this endeavor of becoming a teacher,and whereas i was helped to a degree,,that help only served to further someone elses aspirations for THEM to get ahead and take all favorites with and leave others behind(good people were passed over,,dedicated people). its a big McDojo now,,haha even my prior massage therapy school i went to ,buys into their crap. They focus on quantity rather than quality these days. its actually like what you see when you go in to a TKD school and even though i think TDK is ineffective i STILL have more respect for them than i do SD. At least a TKD school IS what it says it IS.

Monkeyslap? i am having problems with my inbox,,i dont know if its my computer or what,,but if you replied to my PM please send the reply again as i did not get it. ,,,hey i mean i will just bring it up here,,no secrets really.......
i will end this post and do another one that talks about what i was pming MST about

[The Willow Sword]

there is a video tape of the SD hsing i curriculum with the exception of the two man set. it was offerred to us at the time as an "extra course" and so a bunch of us,,including ME,,decided to jump on it.
the last night of the 3 month course on learning the 5 fists the linkage and the 12 animal steps(yes in 3 months) someone videotaped the last night of the class. the teacher who was instructing us(all you SD guys know who the Austin Teacher is right?) he decided to demonstrate all the forms(katas,,hehe) so that we would have a record of it. he also demonstrates in this video the 5 animal frolics qiqong sets(which i did not think was all that bad) what got to me after everything was said and done(when i quit) and began to look at the REAL hsing i from traditional CMA masters,,were the glaring inconsistancies,,,what you see is essentially a modified or what i like to call "b@stardized" set of forms that were taken from who knows where,,,,hsing i has pretty simple movements so it would be easy to forge your own based on traditional movements and call it your own( i dont think this is too bad,,but when you look at what SD claims as a history and lineage, in its general terms,,you begin to see the farse emerge right in your face)

i mean we all have our own expression of the movements of any given form we are taught,,,,i did my Sd forms more like CMA rather than the kempo style that you see in the vid demos,,,i have been told this by people outside of SD that my movements looked CMA,,and thats due to my CMA training before SD.
So in essence i am actually glad that things happened as they did for me for i could very well have put the CMA flair in the forms that so many thought were not there and continued to propagate the SD rhetoric(now i dont think that i was the best teacher or practitioner there,,hell no) and i remained humble in the face of all compliments and praise for my abilities as a teacher there(mainly from the students and NOT my fellow B-Belt peers OR the main instructor) i may have been percieved as someone who though he was the best,,but my answer to all of that is this,,when you love to do something and you walk with confidence NOT arrogance,,those who question thier own abilities will tend to attack those who have a "content" to thier movements rather than just a "flair" or "form".

Peace,,TWS

[Brad]

Yeah, I do. The woman I'm dating has family in Columbus. Next time I'm up we should touch base although it will probably be in the "crutches" stage of my recovery so that's no fun.
Lol, there's a possibilty I may be on crutches too! We could have a crutch battle :p I've been having bad knee problems and I'm afraid something may be torn. Last time I had reconstructive surgery(4 years ago) I jumped into training too fast and I don't think everything healed up as it should. I was starting to feel better though, until I hurt both my knees this summer building a patio. Now I'm hobbling around on and off all the time :p Let me know next time you're in town though, and maybe I could introduce you to my teacher(finally opened his own school this year).

[Judge Pen]

Excellent Brad. I'll do that. I'm going to need a lot of patience cause I want to heal up right before I jump back into training. I'll keep in touch.

[Judge Pen]

TWS, I think you are right about a couple of things. Quantity over quality is the emphasis in a lot of SD schools AND there are different ways to "express" the forms. You did it with a CMA flair because of your prior training. I *believe* that my forms have a CMA flair because of the quality of my teacher's instruction. I think that if one really focuses on the forms and the subtleties, they will look more recognizable in their principles to the people here. Unfortunately, this is rarely done.

[MasterKiller]

CRIPPLE FIGHT!

[Brad]

:D

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
CRIPPLE FIGHT!

My money's on the lawyer crip... in the end, he wins regardless...