Is a straight line the whole story?

[Phenix]

many decade ago, at Bruce Lee's time --

The closest distance between two points is a straight line was a great slogan and sometimes it was seen as a superiority of Wing Chun Straight punch. ( certainly, some think the punch is straight some don't... different views)

But, is The closest distance between two points is a straight line the full story or it is partial or just some gimmic for makerting advertisement to sell Wing Chun Kuen into the market?

How is that "closes distance, straight line" stuffs applied in today's world when WCner is facing the competitors rushing to take down?

Is the opponents who rush in to take down find a more "closest" distance in the space and time to take down the WCner? What is going on here?

The "straight line" magic doesnt work any more? The Tan da, Lap Da.... doesnt work any more? or people has forgotent the other part of untold story behind that "straight line"?

[Waxwood rod]

If someone driving you in staight line to take down, move. What is a line if not straight? Curve. If all else fail grab hair and knee face. maybe, but when the line becomes unavoidable sprawl and smash face to ground, but where is the straight punch? It happens at first instinct, before opponents straight line is imagined.

[PaulH]

Usually for a straight line attack to work well, you need sharp timing, speed, good position or angle as well as proper distance. I think what will kill it is when the opponent took its position (jamming the forearm, etc.) and thus screwed up also all its timing, speed, and power.

I would use tan da and lop da to diffuse such interrupting forces, but in case his power is too great pinning my body down making it very difficult to deflect into the needed angles of tan or lop. One should try to break out of the body pin first while you still have balance by footwork. However if the body pin already seriously undermined your stability, I think you basically are stuck by his body momentum and most likely will go down to the ground with him.

[sihing]

Originally posted by PaulH
Usually for a straight line attack to work well, you need sharp timing, speed, good position or angle as well as proper distance.

X4 for a round, hook or any circular movement to work......

[Phenix]

So, the story about the straight line is just talking about how the shortest route of a plane can reach and bomb other country.

But never mention anything about will the plane can even take off, if the planes of the other country has already up in the sky and coming with massive firing power.

so, 1 never mention how to take off. 2, never mention what to do if others have already within a mile from the airport before one's plane starts to taking off. 3... always assume others have no plane or others plane has weak power?..... 4, how fast can the plane take off? 5, can the plane takes off when other has blocking the sky? 6, if one's plane can vertically takes off and accerelate in full speed in 0 second how much pressure one face compare with if one's plane needs 100 miles of room to take off? or thinking about all the straight lines "if" one has it.

[PaulH]

"if one's plane can vertically takes off and accerelate in full speed in 0 second how much pressure one face compare with if one's plane needs 100 miles of room to take off?- Hendrik"

acceleration = (final speed - initial speed)/ time duration

I assume that you mean for tiny fraction of time the speed differential is huge. Sound like a bullet.

[Phenix]

I assume that you mean for tiny fraction of time the speed differential is huge. Sound like a bullet.---------


There is a model behind the straight line story.


As it said in the Wing Chun Kuen Kuit --- other took the path of the Bow, I took the path of the Bow String.

The path of Bow String is not only to do with the straight line. it goes deeper to a different way of generating , issuing, and handling power.

Thus, the Browken Arrow/Complete Arrow concept is very important. that is the first fundamental of SLT.

The Bow String is the second fundamental of SLT.

the string release and returning to its natural state while shoot out the Arrow. when the Bow string strecth it is storing energy not releasing the arrow. the Bow strecth out side way while shooting the arrow out.

So, the way of string is issuing energy while returning to its natural state similar to a Bow string. That is different with other who issuing energy while streching out.

That ofcorse related to acceleraton big time....


The question to ask is then, do one strecth out while releasing the punch or one return to the nature state while releasing the punch?


So, the PIKACHU SLT MODEL :

Fundamental #1.

do one have a full arrow platform which define : if one draw a circle using one leg with the other leg as the center of the circle. At ordinary non special special condition, one's finger while at strecthing must stay within this circle.

When the finger is streched outside the circle, it is called a Broken Arrow state where the platform is unstable and has un conditionally needs to
compensation for equilibrium even in a static situation. this over strech needs compensation all the time, and it will become an amplified burden in a dynamic state. meaning that cost the efficientcy and effectiveness of the system.


Fundamental #2.

When issuing power, do one stretch similar to a bow( while shooting out the arrow), or similar to the string of the bow while return to its nature state. As the Wing Chun kuen Kuit said "other took the path of the Bow, I took the path of the Bow String"


Pikachu SLT basic is intent to achieve . 1, at all condition including dynamic and static, the platform is in a balance, equilibrium, and center state without any compensation needed. 2, issuing power is return to one's nature state. IE: While other is rushing to take off one's plane. One is in a no rush process of landing one's plane.


So, now we have the Pikachu Sky earth human model and the Pikachu SLT model.

How is the Pikachu SLT model related to the Pikachu SKY Earth HUman model? The full arrow fundemental and the string issuing are about allow the Earth to Support and self awareness at all time to take care of things naturally.

The rest is SKY --- where do you want to fly? take off or landing? your choice with easy, relax, and confident.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Tom Kagan


Both a "bow walk" and a "string walk" are also methods for an archer to aim an arrow.


Great stuffs.

Care to share the details ?

[Tom Kagan]

Exploding straight down the line is important. However, in my humble opinion, finding and getting to the line is the hard part.

But, since we're into the Jack Handy Deep Thoughts: Both a "bow walk" and a "string walk" are also methods for an archer to aim an arrow.

[Addendum: Odd, how did the order get messed up?]

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Tom Kagan


[Addendum: Odd, how did the order get messed up?]

Exploding straight down the line is important. However, in my humble opinion, finding and getting to the line is the hard part.

Later issue the post get there first.... :D


Must be the Wing Chun Ancestor God's way of telling us we are on the right track of discussion.

[PaulH]

So the whole body like a bow draws out and stores ground energy into potential energy. But to get that great acceleration that you speak of will require almost instantaneous letting go of all that stored energy. The question then is how much can the body store as well as how good can it release at a focal point.

P.S. There is also an issue of what kind of energy do you store. Some say chi storing will make the body sluggish. What is the nature of shen energy then?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH


P.S. There is also an issue of what kind of energy do you store. Some say chi storing will make the body sluggish. What is the nature of shen energy then?


Forget about the Chi and Shen.....

Get the root chakra and the physical world straight first. :D

[Ng Mui]

The bullets which come out of my gun, only come out in straight line.
They seem to be quite effective.

My punch is the same.

[PaulH]

Watch out for the bulletproof monk, Abbess! =)

[yellowpikachu]

Shape straight momentum is not straight.

[Rhat]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Shape straight momentum is not straight.

"straight" or "Hendrik's straight"???

So, we're still waiting for your answer!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Waxwood rod
If someone driving you in staight line to take down, move. What is a line if not straight? Curve. If all else fail grab hair and knee face. maybe, but when the line becomes unavoidable sprawl and smash face to ground, but where is the straight punch? It happens at first instinct, before opponents straight line is imagined.

If someone is rushing at you from across the room, sure, move. from punching range, chances are you won't have time to sidestep or anything. Even once you do, he'll catch the other leg and continue with a takedown. The best thing, IMO? sprawl, as you said.

in the case of a takedown, I want your punch coming first - exactly what you said you would do. Since you are committed to the punch, sprawling is harder for you.

[Vajramusti]

Agree on the sprawl. Not necessarily on the punch.
Wing chun world is diverse. But IMO wing chun person
should be able to adjust his punch....not a 100% commitment as in some karate systems. Adjust!!!

[SevenStar]

I agree, adjustment may be an option - if your opponent is extremely close though, it may not be.

Here's an example - it's from a movie, but still, you get the point:

http://fohguild.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=135124

[Vajramusti]

Seven Star sez:(Answers in brackets)

I agree, adjustment may be an option - if your opponent is extremely close though, it may not be.

((Some arts when well practiced relish close quarters- more than others)

Here's an example - it's from a movie, but still, you get the point:

((One actor adjusted and the other didn't. Their should always be room for jello))

[PaulH]

It's debatable whether O'hara passed out from the impact shock of Bruce lee's 22" punch or the horror of seeing the devastating Bruce's smile! =)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Vajramusti


((Some arts when well practiced relish close quarters- more than others)

I don't disagree with that.

((One actor adjusted and the other didn't. Their should always be room for jello))

okay, so what would you have done in o'hara's situation? of course, we'll have to ignore o'hara's technique, as he was off balanced and ran right into the takedown, but the distance he was at when bruce made contace with him - you are right there, balanced and punching. How do you adjust your punch when he is that close to you?

[Vajramusti]

Seven Star sez:

Originally posted by Vajramusti


((Some arts when well practiced relish close quarters- more than others)

I don't disagree with that.

((One actor adjusted and the other didn't. Their should always be room for jello))

okay, so what would you have done in o'hara's situation? of course, we'll have to ignore o'hara's technique, as he was off balanced and ran right into the takedown, but the distance he was at when bruce made contace with him - you are right there, balanced and punching. How do you adjust your punch when he is that close to you?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------O'Hara(Wall?)- I wouldnt care to be him- poor structure and footwork.

Lots of choices in adjustment. For a starter(for BL) - a touch with one hand and a short elbow at the closest point on the main line with the other.

There are other conceivable options.

[Vajramusti]

Seven Star sez:

Originally posted by Vajramusti


((Some arts when well practiced relish close quarters- more than others)

I don't disagree with that.

((One actor adjusted and the other didn't. Their should always be room for jello))

okay, so what would you have done in o'hara's situation? of course, we'll have to ignore o'hara's technique, as he was off balanced and ran right into the takedown, but the distance he was at when bruce made contace with him - you are right there, balanced and punching. How do you adjust your punch when he is that close to you?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------O'Hara(Wall?)- I wouldnt care to be him- poor structure and footwork.

Lots of choices in adjustment. For a starter(for BL) - a touch with one hand and a short elbow at the closest point on the main line with the other.

There are other concievable options.

[SevenStar]

like I mentioned - nevermind ohara's technique - you are ohara. you had picture perfect technique. lee lowered his level and went for a double leg - at that moment when he lowered on ohara (you), what adjustment would you have made?

[Vajramusti]

Seven Star asks:

like I mentioned - nevermind ohara's technique - you are ohara. you had picture perfect technique. lee lowered his level and went for a double leg - at that moment when he lowered on ohara (you), what adjustment would you have made?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I(depersonalized not egotistical "I") would not be either O'Hara or Lee.
I would not depend on a single technique.
Reading of structure, motion, lines and timing
are more part of wing chun chemistry.

But since you are asking the question in a pre-specified
context- O'hara-Lee movie snippet....things have to have big dramatic moves in movies. Wing chun does not look good in mpvies- the small little motions by competent people are not captured very well in visual representations.
I would shift, change the line, disturb his balance-
control and strike.
All- from spontaneous use of wing chun chemistry.
Movie scenarios can always be second guessed.
Even with his legs grabbed-if Ohara was an experienced wing chun person he could have avoided the groin shot with his legs.
YGKYM, SLT and chum kiu motions have many uses and adaptations.


PS- didnt see the post till now...I shift from place to place- task to task.Expecting another grandchild in the next 36 hours= so may be in and out for a while.

[YongChun]

In Wing Chun they always say "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line and therefore we hit in the straightline fashion." I think the key thing is to get there the fastest and if possible with the least energy expenditure. In mathematics and in physics, the shortest paths are not always straight lines such as in curved space. If a target is well protected then the shortest way to hit the target might not be a straightline shot.