question for Sihing73

[vertical fist]

Hi Sihing.

You mentioned in a post that you served with the Rangers. I want to sincerely thank you for that. I wanted to ask you about the hand-to-hand training they do in Ranger School. What style/s is it? Do you think the training is effective enough? What about other H2H training among the SpecOps community?

Thank you.

[chongnoi]

Even though your question was directed towards Sihing73, I may be able to answer your questions.
I served in a Ranger Battalion from 86-89 and was agraduate of Ranger School (class 2-88) and then later went on to Special Forces (the green berets) and completed the Special forces Qualification course and served in 1st SFG. Anyway in Ranger school, we only did H2H for several nights, about 3-4 hours a night. It mainly consisted of judo type throws and aggressive actions. we also did quite a bit of bayonet training and ran a bayonet obstacle course. the H2H training was really there just to teach one to be aggressive and weed weak candidate out. Once in a ranger Battalion, my company for awhile (Headquarter comany) used to do H2H every thursday morning for PT, which consisted of Pugil Stick fighting and throws and punches. In Special Forces there was no H2H in the Qualification Course at all. Many fellow Special Forces Soldiers did some martial arts on there own time though (that is were i initially got involved in Wing Chun) As for H2H training in Special Operations-well, it is mainly for the movies. In real life, if it comes down to H2Hin a special ops mission-the mission has failed and you are dead!! It is much better, instead of H2H training, for a Special Ops team to practice more useful aspects such as communications, patrolling skills, reaction drills, spending time at the range firing rounds, demolitions, trauma medicine, etc... The image of a Green Beret being a cold blooded killer who can take on a whole bar bare handed is pure hollywood myth. The truth is a Green Beret or ranger is one who knows tactics and uses his mind and and is superbly trained. In warfare, wether conventional or special ops, the goal is to engage the enemy from as great as distance as possible and get it over very quickly-or better yet to solve the problem without any violence at all.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I would tend to agree pretty much with chongnoi on his assesment. I believe that the mental attitude along with the superb physical conditioning are what makes any person a formidable opponent.

Just to clarify my experieince was as follows:
I entered the Army in 1982 and after basic I went to my MOS training in Fort Gordon. I was in the signal core. After MOS I opted for Airborne training and was sent to Fort Benning. Once that was complete I was sent to Fort Lewis. Upon my arrival I desired to join a LRP unit. However, my MOS was not of interest to them and I ended up being attached to the 275th Ranger Battalion. Much of my time with the Rangers was spent jumping and carrying a PR-77. I did get to travel to quite a few lovely scenic areas, ;) and had a good time.

Most of the H2H training was done on an individual level. PT was broken down into activities perfromed by the unit. Teamwork was very important. I found that the mental conditioning far outweighed any physical although hard physical training was definietly a part of the increased mental training. We were put under stress on a daily basis in an attempt to weed out those who were weak.

As to all those stories of this guy or that guy teaching the "Elite Forces" most of those are seminar type trainings. No one has an established program, that I am aware of, which has been adopted by any in the US Military. In other words, a lot of what you are taught depends on the experieince and skill level of the instructor. If the instructor has a background in Judo you will be taugh mostly Judo. Much of the training was broken down in squad level and there was a bit of diversity among the same battalion nothing was really standardized.

Ranger School consists mainly of an advanced infantry course. Emphasis is on patrolling and tactics. H2H, when taught, was secondary.

Peace,

Dave

[vertical fist]

Thank you very much for both your replies and thank you chongnoi for your service to our country as well.
I do alot of reading, so I'm not decieved by all the Hollywood exagerrations of SpecOps. The level of training you guys do is amazing. One thing I've always believed about any present or former SpecOperator is that even without alot of martial arts training, you'd be very difficult to take out in a H2H situation because of the edge you guys have; highly, highly motivated and confident individuals who are capable of enduring combat stress.

By the way, have you guys read Black Hawk Down? About Mog. Somalia in '93. Ridley Scott is filming the movie, looks to be really good. Check this site out.

http://www.cinemayhem.com/blackhawkdown/index.htm

Thanks again.