when is an maer no longer an maer?????

[blooming lotus]

Have noticed a lack of decent discussion in recent days , so in the spirit of keping our boards active, have a question to hash.

I have been without a kungfu teacher for going on several weeks , and being I'm "trapped" here in China for the time being if not indefinately, I pondered this.

I've heard it said here before that ppl refuse to pay ma prowess of old has beens. How long without a teacher or a school do ppl define "no longer an maer" ?? Can you train your shyte alone and still be a martial artist??? Can you just train your you body condition and together with prior ma ,still be an effective maer, or must you be in a school directly under a teacher. And if so, when you go on holidays, how long can you take before you're no longer maing??


roll on.........

Cerebus??? Now here a troll will be welcomed! ;) :)

[MasterKiller]

Once you stop practicing combat applications, you are no longer a martial artist.

[blooming lotus]

so if you take a holiday and chill a while , you are no longer ma 'ing?nor an maer ??? and quantify / define "practicing" !

[MasterKiller]

Main Entry: practicing
Variant(s): or practising
Function: adjective
: actively engaged in a specified career or way of life <a practicing physician>

[blooming lotus]

and now were practicing physicians???!! ...well okay...I got some therapy to go......

:rolleyes:


Ps: stopped for

how long did we say???

[Ming Yue]

Going without a Sifu for a time may not shut you down if you're dedicated, but to continue to grow (style notwithstanding), you need the benefit of an opponent/uki/parnter—combat application.

I think a week without contact training is too long—without that interaction I think your training suffers, you're refining, but not growing.

That said, IMHO if MA is still the driving force in your heart and body and mind, you remain a martial artist.

[David Jamieson]

if you learn and practice you can consider yourself a martial artist.

having interaction with others is part of it too, buit not necessary all of the time. you can do a lot of stuff in a solo format and use interaction time to confirm and validate that you have been training correctly or incorrectly or just need more work in an area.

But it's all in the doing.

If you used to do karate, kungfu whatever, but haven't practiced in a long time, can't remember much of it and don't actively pursue refinement, then you "used" to be a martial artist.

at least, from my point of view. I know guys that have dropped off training for weeks and sometimes months at a time. They are still martial artists and several of them still possess the skills.

[Jet Johnson]

Once you stop practicing combat applications, you are no longer a martial artist.

I disagree. Just as solely practicing combat applications does not make you a martial artist but a fighter, not practicing them does not make you a non-martial artist. If after years of training solo you have maintained an acceptable level of proficiency in forms, chi, flexibility and endurance, you are still a martial artist in my book.

[FngSaiYuk]

Something of note-

Research indicates that some 'downtime' is beneficial to improvement in most areas. So taking some 'vacation time' can benefit you, if, when you continue your training, you observe that not only do you ramp up to speed again, but your movements are more natural and have more energy/power/flow/etc to them.

This is most notable in INTENSE training. Go at it intensely for a while, then take a break, then ramp back up again. Oft times, if you find you've hit a plateau before the break, your performance after the break gets you past your plateau.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Jet Johnson
I disagree. Just as solely practicing combat applications does not make you a martial artist but a fighter, not practicing them does not make you a non-martial artist. If after years of training solo you have maintained an acceptable level of proficiency in forms, chi, flexibility and endurance, you are still a martial artist in my book. Without the martial, it's just art.

[David Jamieson]

I also disagree with the constant need for combatives or sparring.

i do think these are necessary and only forms training is lacking in the big picture. Without the combatives or sparring then you are really only dancing with martial flavour.

which is artsy I suppose, but without the force feedback and interaction with another player it is not "really" martial in scope.

I am not so certain that spiritual training is so important either. I get my spirituality elsewhere than from martial arts training. But whatevere floats someones boat I guess. If you get your religion from it, then so be it.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Martial Arts is the art of fighting...

You can't learn how to fight by doing flowery forms alone. You MUST spar and **** near full contact if you want to be in your element when it comes to blows.

Its really stupid and geekish to belive that by doing "White Crane attacks Black Tiger" over and over (with out application practice on a resisting opponent) you're magically going to inherit the knowledge of the ancients and become a true martial artist.

[SevenStar]

it's not necessarily the lack of a teacher or school. It's quality training time. looking at a poster and aiming at dm points doesn't qualify in my book, for example. practicing forms for 10 mins a few days a week doesn't qualify either.

Hard, dedicated training time. If possible, try to find a partner of some sort in order to get some contact training. mybe drop in another school and see if anyone is willing to drill / spar with you.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Jet Johnson
I disagree. Just as solely practicing combat applications does not make you a martial artist but a fighter, not practicing them does not make you a non-martial artist. If after years of training solo you have maintained an acceptable level of proficiency in forms, chi, flexibility and endurance, you are still a martial artist in my book.

:(

[David Jamieson]

yeah I'm not really down with that either 7. But there are plenty of people who do not explore the fighting aspect and are still martial artists.

testing the applicability of the martial dance is key in "getting it".

I been doing martial arts of one sort or another all my life really and all of them in intermediate and advanced stages put a greater emphasis on combative training.

Now, I gotta do more ground work cause i keep getting friggin tooled! lol well, at least when it doesn't include the takedown and striking.

[SPJ]

Ultimately, you have to be your own teacher. The teachers gave you guidance, but you make the journey.

I became teacherless in "90.

I still kept a training schedule. I dunno why. It has been part of my life for so long.

But it is more like a physical activity and meditation.

Yes, still doing Tai Ji Lao Jia Yi Lu and Er Lu.

Yes, still doing Qi Gong.

Yes, still doing Tang Lang, Tai Tzu, Tong Bei.

Yes, still doing --

Not all at the same time.

Why?

My teachers never quit till 80 or 90 years old.

It would be a shame I quit when I am still mid 40.

Hum-- pondering.

In short, once a MAer is always a MAer. Fighting or not. too old or not. If you are not 80 or 90, you are never too old for MA.

Once a golfer, once a fisherman, once a dancer, once --
Always a golfer, a fisherman, a dancer, a--

MA is about fighting but it is more than fighting. It is about winning, health, fitness, survival, --.

:D

[FngSaiYuk]

Pretty good point...

If you no longer spar or do combat drills with partners/opponents, then are you no longer a martial artist? If so, then what of masters who continue their training regimen but no longer spar or do combat drills? Are they no longer martial artists?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SPJ

In short, once a MAer is always a MAer.

I disagree. By that logic, a 50 year old MA who quit training when he was 17 is still a MA...

[blooming lotus]

only if he meets an opponent with whom he uses his ma prowess to overcome.......how do you not then call him a practicing martial fighter???

7???

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Pretty good point...

If you no longer spar or do combat drills with partners/opponents, then are you no longer a martial artist? If so, then what of masters who continue their training regimen but no longer spar or do combat drills? Are they no longer martial artists?

why would they no longer do drills? One of my judo coaches is 75 and still schools guys on the mat...

However, I would say there is a difference between a senior citizen who has put in his time and a twenty something who hasn't.

[blooming lotus]

and a 20 something who has but has had several weeks / mths off training but uses their prior skill in real life defence?? Is that not more valuable and indicative than in the class???

[SevenStar]

people who don't train at all defend themseleves all the time. The fact that you were in an altercation doesn't really mean anything...

[jon]

You either practice martial arts or you dont.

Calling yourself a 'martial artist' is simply giving yourself a pointless title for the sake of convenience.

In my experience its much easyer for the majority of people to live life if they feel like they are tied to some kind of set method of living and thinking. The same thing can be seen in religion and politics as well, often its just people who are scared of actualy having to think for themselves.


Last surviving warrior of the almighty order of the mystical dragons of glowing self importance.
Jon

[SPJ]

I think we have to separate practice from physical ability limited by age.

If you know how to walk, you walk not as fast when old.

If you know how to swim, you swim not as fast when old.

There are other methods to defend yourself when old.

There are certain school or methods of MA for physically weaker and slower people.

My point is that if you practice certain physical activity for so long, your ability may still be there when old.

In that sense, seven is right. When you quit something at 17 and never practice again. The ability may not be there anymore when old.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
people who don't train at all defend themseleves all the time. The fact that you were in an altercation doesn't really mean anything...

good point. AS for the "you " statement, we were talking metaphorically , but semantics I can get over. ;)

don't have a shifu right now, but ma is part of my daily life and regardless, I still have my chart study and at min condition my body with combat apps in mind every day. I'm just going to go ahead and continue to call myself " practing", but opinions are still welcome.

Ps: and what with the holiday?? No joke about it, if having a school / shifu is, according to some quanitfying your ma status of practice, how long can you take??

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus

don't have a shifu right now, but ma is part of my daily life and regardless, I still have my chart study and at min condition my body with combat apps in mind every day.

this is what I'm talking about - combat apps in your mind? What about your body? what are you doing physically?


Ps: and what with the holiday?? No joke about it, if having a school / shifu is, according to some quanitfying your ma status of practice, how long can you take??

I know this one wasn't geared toward me, but I would say no more than a month.

[cerebus]

Posted by bl:

"I'm just going to go ahead and continue to call myself "practicing,""

Just like she calls herself a "geniouse"....
:rolleyes:

[SPJ]

Got sidetracked. I had heavy client/patient load on weekend.

The first post is about if you can train yourself if not in school or a teacher is away.

What happened to us in the '70, when a teacher was not available.

We usually kept practicing the last lesson till classtime again.

Or we practice old lessons.

Because when the teacher came back, he will examine the last lesson and move on.

If the last lesson was not practiced well, guess what we had to practice over and over, there will be no new lesson till we were good enough with the old.

The truth of the matter is most of the time, you have to study solo or with classmates. One day teachers may not be there anymore. So make the best of the classtime with the teacher.

When young, MA lessons were like piano lessons or guitar lessons, I had to practice everyday over and over. No questions asked. One day, I may be able to play masterpiece music or perform the MA lessons flawlessly.

[blooming lotus]

Firstly SpJ : thank you for some common sense no bs posting!




Originally posted by SevenStar



Where'd that quote go??

:confused:

Anyway, I have been negotiating hard core each and every day, travelling all over the gad****ed coutry to get the fvck outta here, so besides lugging the 70 + kgs luggage around the country, the endless walking , and my pushups, tricep extension / dips/ crunches, squats, stretches, qigong, dimmak chart study and basic and very breif GF shadow boxing jazz....... I do jack!! Nothing p*sses me off more than not being able to workout properly, but you take what you can get!! And that's before I even register as having feelings and the need to keep optimistic.

All up anywhere between 1 1/2 - 7 hrs activity. Do I qualify do you think?? :rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

its a mear not an maer.

[blooming lotus]

lueb........... when you gain some expertise, we'll chat again :rolleyes:

"I wanna be just like serpie,........ and Cerubus .and blah blah blah " he says .................


idiot !

[blooming lotus]

and back to forms and styles???

[Khun Kao Charuad]

I stopped considering myself a martial artist many years ago. I'm just a fighter.

[Mr Punch]

That's what I was gonna say, but without the fighter bit! :D

I'm not a martial artist. I'm not artistic enough! :D And I'm not a fighter. I have no experience of fighting except a couple of unfortunate violent incidents, and I don't fight in the ring.

The fact that in the majority of my spare time I engage in fighting related sports training/kf training/sd training means nothing to me in defining myself.

First and foremost, I'm just a geezer... unfortunately a fairly unremarkable one. Secondly I think of myself as an environmental economist, but since I am not qualified as such (though initially qualified in a related field) or working as such it really must just one of the possible definitions of myself I use to give myself a relative framework to fit myself in with the rest of the world around me. And I don't often do that, as one of the other labels I could use is Tao/Buddhist related so that helpfully and paradoxically does away with the need for labels! :D To most other people, I'm a teacher. And to some others, I'm a martial arts freak, environmental freak, political freak, or just a plain old freak.... or like I said, just a geezer...!

In real training terms, if you have a break from formal dojo training for a week, a month, even a year, if you put the time in before that, and you still train forms, or messing about with other people or occasional martial based arm-waving every now and then, I think you can call yourself a martial artist. By time in, I'm talking intensity, and that's the determining factor. If you train for six months in some art you do not represent that art, and nor can you call yourself a martial artist based on that experience.

There are two other determining factors to being a martial artist IMO. One is having a core set of reflexes that determine your response to an attack. So the example of a 50 year-old bloke who manages to overcome some attacker after a 'break' since he was 17 would only wash if he used some recognisable reflex. Doesn't have to be complicated: if he was a boxer at 17 and his refelx response is to knock someone the **** out with a flurry of punches, if his initial response maybe came from a boxing framework, then maybe you could call him an MA.

The last is how long do you intend to take a break...? The above bloke has not done anything since he was 17, and he's now 50. He's not on a break, so unless he still shows the reflex (highly doubtful) he's not an MA.

Yours,
a geezer.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Khun Kao Charuad
I stopped considering myself a martial artist many years ago. I'm just a fighter.

he11 yeah.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I'm not a martial artist...

I'm a masachist and bully...with a heart of gold.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
lueb........... when you gain some expertise, we'll chat again :rolleyes:


whoops mis spelling a maer!!!!

aww dont like my trolling? i have much to learn the padawan that i am :o :rolleyes:

whats a maer? :D

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
i am :o :rolleyes:

whats a maer? :D


:rolleyes: learn some grammar and spelling yourself, then come back and give it another shot ;)

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
:rolleyes: learn some grammar and spelling yourself, then come back and give it another shot ;)


probably not gonna happen. even though born and bread in usa, my english, spelling, sentance structure and stuff is bad. i dont know how the hell i made it through college. :o

[blooming lotus]

love your sweetness, but I just wanna clear my inbox for embassy mail okay luebs.

cheers