learning new forms and styles.........

[blooming lotus]

Coach Ross raises and inspires a good ponit! When you folks do this, trade up styles and forms, as we all at some stage do ( with exception to die hard 1 kata for 25 yrs no parole fans) , do you dice what you knew previously and take everything from detatched "brand knew " knowledge perspective or do you incorporate what you're learning as you go to what you have before???

I have a jack of many style ( master of none) system going on, and personally I find that if I approach each new style and form as though I know nothing, it's easier to get that particualar flow on and later incorporate it into what I'd learnt before.


yourselves???


and how easy is that for you....

Ie:- when learning some southern shaolin over the past month and bit, having come directly from a tkd base, it was really hard for me to adapt to the differences as we were progressing...just did not compute!!! Especially with the crane come spinning fly back spin . Even their chambers are different!!!!!!!

And taiji meets shaolin is another kettle of fish again: feet opposing each other, then throw in some xingyi and weight distribution and I'm getting dizzy!


what do you all think??

[scotty1]

Personally I don't see the need to do any more than one style.

So I can't help you :D

[blooming lotus]

and what style would that be scotty 1???

[MasterKiller]

The one that you want to spend the time perfecting...

[blooming lotus]

now if you 'll just tell me the name ......................


;) :p :D

[scotty1]

Is that a serious request?!:)

I train taijichuan.

And I've got so much on my plate trying to be good at that I can't imagine why I would ever want to try and be good at anything else at the same time!

[blooming lotus]

hello!! all those who have taiji( any branch will do;) ) and stilldon't feel invincible please say " I"

[Icewater]

Bloom... having just recently started focusing on Sil-Lum KF (about a year ago) and coming from an Isshinryu/Aikido background I'm finding that the forms here are much different. However, I can't help but incorporate some old habits into the new. My c-steps are more L shaped out of habit and my flow is still somewhat of the choppy karate 1-move-at-a-time-ish drill (in the old days my kata looked like somone fighting in a strobe light).

One of the major differences I have found is the emphasis on the uber-low stances that make my legs feel like toothpicks wrapped in lukewarm jello. This is something that I am trying to embrace one painful stance at a time as I find it is helping with my overall stability.

[blooming lotus]

dong dong...I understand.but if you can incorporate 50 wide squats into your daily regime and do stair runs / sprints when you can, you'll find you''ll adapt much faster.


on the c's as l's , that's my point, and i think if you can get into the zone, where despite what has now become reflexive instinct, you detatch and take the lesson for all its' glory ( which your shifu's gon luv you for ), you can get a better grasp on the here and now, and can save the thinking for ron ( as in - later .ron) ;)

cheers IW

[David Jamieson]

It's about time and effort.

you can spend your time bring a single knife to a highly honed sharpness, or you can spend a longer time bring the entire cutlery drawer to the same state.

Having said that, I engage in seeking opportunity to learn wherever and whenever I can. Thankfully I have a time luxury compnent in my life right now and this is what I have chosen to do with my time.

I don't see any problem with a singular focus or multiple. In the end, it is all within the same boundaries and context and being at a buffet is sometimes better than rice and black eyed peas all the time. At least for me.

[FngSaiYuk]

Yeah, but you KNOW you have that ONE fave knife you tend to use more than the rest and which you keep EXTRA sharp...

::grin::

[Shaolinlueb]

nah i dont tend to forget what i learned in the previous style. msot the basics are alike and stances too jsut different names. I try to keep acurate when performing to the way i was taught. usually i jsut put shaolin flava in everything and it looks better :D

[Meat Shake]

I dont see the point in doing anything for such a short time that you cant even learn how to use it.
No problem with studying more than 1 art, but study them continuously. I study SC and BJJ right now, and will continue to do so for several years to come. Ill pick up techniques I like here and there from other systems, but no way in hell will I try and learn a whole nother system. Its plainly and simply pointless. If you seriously think you have the capacity to learn the nuances and feeling of a system in a few months, you are a grossly deluded individual. Why not pick one or two things and stick with it long enough to actually learn something?

[WinterPalm]

Hi, I think it is good to stick with one system. Especially when you are a beginner. I would say wait until you are very adept and capabel, by your teacher's persmission, to teach, and then maybe at some point you should learn more, but I really think it takes a long time to cover an entire system, and you have to make your body adapt to this system and that takes years. Also, you should probably take some time to study rehab methods for injury, like massage, physio, acupuncture, or anything of that sort, and then there are character requirements you should try and achieve, never mind meditation, and so on. What are you studying, Bloominglotus? Are you just studying to fight, or to defend yourself, or for fitness, because a lot of people take these aspects first and sometimes only, and so they may need to train in a lot of systems to compensate for their lack of spiritual development. I'm not saying you have anything like this, but you should really focus on what you are taught. I trained tai chi for a year and I felt the grounding it gave me helped me avoid fights and have confidence, so in that sense it didn't make me feel invincible, but nothing is going to do that, but it helped me feel good and I didn't get beat up or mugged so it must have protected me through some channel.:)

[MasterKiller]

HAHAHAHA

IronKim forgot to log out before posting for real. :D

[rubthebuddha]

you noticed that, too? i check IPs yesterday and indeed i was right, but for pete's sake, that last post takes away all the challenge. :D

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by IronKim
I think it is valuable to pick up new stuff and new forms because it helps you learn more and getter better perspective on your chosen art(s). And also because it keeps things fun and interesting.

However, I don't think you should be looking for "perspective" until you have settled into a particular art and have a solid background in it.

To use my self as an example, I have studied Choy Lay Fut and Chen Taiji for the last 8 years. The whole time with the same two teachers.

Double tracking like this has caused a lot of confusion and I even had to quit Taiji for a brief time to sort it out.

Its been a great experience and I've learned a lot. However, I'm very curious about other styles and arts and I'm wondering what they have teach me about my two main arts (which I think that I'll probably stick with my whole life as they are both great systems.) Before he gets a chance to delete it...we should save this for posterity.

[SevenStar]

quick, someone call magical trevor and have him fix that post!

[rubthebuddha]

with his leathery, leathery whip

[SevenStar]

it's made of magic and with a little flick

[MasterKiller]

Fu Pow = busted.

[Meat Shake]

"rubthebuddha with his leathery, leathery whip"
"SevenStar it's made of magic and with a little flick"


Are you guys talking about old St. Nicks genitals?

[SevenStar]

yeah, yeah, yeah, the cow is back

[Fu-Pow]

Aaaaarrrggghh......If it wasn't for you meddlesome kids I would have gotten away with it......:mad::mad: :mad:

Oh well....not everyone knows yet and the legend may yet live on !!!!:D

[SPJ]

Not surprised.

Tai Ji make you so dull, so slow, so stagnant, so still, so not moving at all.

Tai Ji make you worn out in will and physique.

Tai Ji make you humble.

I studied external (Shaolin, Tai Tzu, Tong Bei, Mantis) for so long.

One day I was introduced to the venerable Chen Tai Ji.

The teacher showed me Tai Ji Qi Shi (start up). That is the first move. I stand in that position for 25 min. Next time 45 min. For 2 months only doing first move.

Where is the punch, where is the kick, where is the block?

Mantis has 3 to 7 moves and countermoves in a set like petals of a plum flower. I did Shaolin Luo Han, Xiao Hong, Da Hong and some long fists for years. I then studied Tai Tzu for some years. Then I studied Tong Bei for some years and Ba Ji for some years. Now I am ready for Mantis. After several years of Tang Lang.

I thought I am done.

HeHeHe here came the Tai Ji, Ba Gua, and Xing Yi.

Tai Ji Qi Shi.

You move your both arms up. That is a Ti. You elevate your Qi to Bai Hui. You inhale.

You then lower your arms near lower belly. This is Anh. You exhale, you lower your Qi to Dan Tien. You lower your knees and your sacrum.

Total relaxation.

Hold arms up for 5 min, 15 min and 25 min.

Hold arms low for 5 min, 15 min and 25 min.

Oh my! when is Tai Ji going to end?

5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 25 years later.

I still do the Qi Shi the same way. Oh I moved on to Yi Lu and Er Lu.

Oh I moved on to the staff and Qin Na.

Oh--

I never quit Tai Ji. I was so "busy" to move forward in Tai Ji. I have plenty of time sorting things out. When I stand for Wu Ji Zhuang, Huen Yuan Zhuang, San Ti Shi, Bear stance. When I stand for Ma Bu Dan Bien for 25 min or more.

:D

[MightyB]

I read a lot of kung fu books and I find the history/biography/lineage stuff to be the most fun. They make it sound like the body of forms / style thing is modern because often they read like "Master so and so learned the staff set from the venerable Master so and so and the Muslim kicking set from Abbot so and so". It seems like the styles were more of a one or two set thing and that people went and learned a couple from some famous dude and and went on to the next guy.

[SPJ]

Sort of correct.

A good student has many teachers.

Which means a good student is good at one school. He or she may learn and pick up another school.

Eventually, you might settle with one.

Unavoidably, you would pick one that fits you. Or you merge some of your favorites into whatever you practice most.

Many people learn Tai Ji.

Tai Ji was merged into Tong Bei in early last century. It is called Tai Ji 5 elements (Wu Xing) Tong Bei.

Tai Ji was sort of merged into Mantis.

No matter what the practitioner like. To merge or to diversify.

Some of the methods are incorporated. You may call either A or B.

Once you are good at one school, some time you have to break the old one to start the new.

The reason my Tai Ji teacher asked me to do a lot of standing practices in the beginning. It was to break my old "habits" of moving fast and punch and kick fast.

I was to quiet my heart, still my mind and "loosen" up all the tightness of external moves.

I have to be broken to be remolded. I was broken all right. I was so broken that I did not feel like moving anymore and so I stood.

Actually, the next level, even though I am standing, actually, I am meditating. I am sensing by limbs and my body. Feeling the Qi flow. Imagine my feet are rooting into the ground.

The next level, use my will to move the Qi or think to move the limbs without actually moving them.

The next level----

I am still standing.


:D

[Royal Dragon]

Me, with my life, I'm lucky if I can spend some time working the 3 forms I do do.

Prior to that whe I did train alot, I kind of wandered around learning bits here and there with little direction untill I got into the Tai Tzu project. That gave me a consistant direction at least. I think I advanced further by doing that, than anything else.

Basically everything I do is now filtered by how it helps the Tai Tzu project, so for me settling on one direction, even if it was self directed, got me the furthest over all.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by WinterPalm
Hi, I think it is good to stick with one system. Especially when you are a beginner. I would say wait until you are very adept and capabel, by your teacher's persmission, to teach, and then maybe at some point you should learn more, but I really think it takes a long time to cover an entire system, and you have to make your body adapt to this system and that takes years. Also, you should probably take some time to study rehab methods for injury, like massage, physio, acupuncture, or anything of that sort, and then there are character requirements you should try and achieve, never mind meditation, and so on. What are you studying, Bloominglotus? Are you just studying to fight, or to defend yourself, or for fitness, because a lot of people take these aspects first and sometimes only, and so they may need to train in a lot of systems to compensate for their lack of spiritual development. I'm not saying you have anything like this, but you should really focus on what you are taught. I trained tai chi for a year and I felt the grounding it gave me helped me avoid fights and have confidence, so in that sense it didn't make me feel invincible, but nothing is going to do that, but it helped me feel good and I didn't get beat up or mugged so it must have protected me through some channel.:)

I've not had a teacher for several weeks. I have studied so many different arts in the last god knows how many yrs ( including taiji) but even more eradically over the last 12 mths have been changing styles often because for my work and study etc I've travelled all over China, and sometimes you just have to take what's on offer. Sometimes it several styles and very very occassionally there's nothing at all.

I train to improve and mantain my fitness, and defence secondary to that. But being that we talking are defence arts, you can believe if I'm training it, it's to competancy.

[blooming lotus]

RD makes a good point. Of those of us that have more than one, if you had to choose one style or form you've benifited from most, or that has taken you the furthest , and bear in mind they all contribute differently, in your martial development, which would it be??

[SevenStar]

I wouldn't pick just one - he chooses to filter everything through tai tzu. I choose to filter it through the thought of well rounded fighting. striking, standup grappling and ground grappling. All that I do falls into one or more of those three categories.

[SPJ]

Good points;

There are a lot of grappling, punch, kicks, throwing and tripping in Tang Lang.

Tang Lang Shou starts with a hook (Diau) and sets up the grappling. Several moves down the road, you get to punch and kick when the opponent's arms are restrained.

Hey we are talking just about every school of CMA.

So the question goes to which style or flavor you prefer?

A circle and a ball strategy. Tai Ji.

A line. Shaolin.

A lot of grappling first. Tang Lang.

Attacks from the 8 zones. Ba Ji.

To walk a lot in a circle. Ba Gua.

All the good ideas from 2000 years ago in a single format. Tai Tzu.

Extend your back and arm a lot. Go long and hit far. Tong Bei.

Guarding the centerline first. Wing Chun.

Move forward and forward. Xing Yi.

On and on.

In short, all schools of CMA provide a variety of solutions to the common fighting problems.

[blooming lotus]

no..


My question was which style / form or art has contributed most to what you now call your arsenal???

[Toby]

Of everyone on this board, I enjoy reading SPJ's posts the most.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I have a jack of many style ( master of none) system going onThat's not a system you have there.
...and personally I find that if I approach each new style and form as though I know nothingThat's one thing you should be good at. LOL @ 'as though'!

As far as sensible answers go, in a freak occurence I think that Meat Shake has finally had a chance of nailing something! :D ;) :P

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
[B]I have a jack of many style ( master of none) system going on

how many of them to you actively "practice"?

[blooming lotus]

look 7*..I started this thread as a hypothetical discussion and you and your stupid ego twists it back to pertain directly to me???


Can we get back to mofo topic doofus??

[Serpent]

This is the topic you fvckwit.

[blooming lotus]

no the topic was a general query and I am not your guinea pig / case example exhibit 1!!

"General".......Do you understand that term ???

[Serpent]

You're the one that brought up your own personal example, therefore it becomes the topic of discussion. That doesn't stop other people from posting their examples and us also discussing that, but you can't bring up yours and then bawl out 7* for discussing it.

You get more stupid every day.

[cerebus]

Submitted for your examination: an example of idioticus stupidicus of the sub-class "blooming lotus". Please note the total lack of logic and coherent thought it displays. Mmmmm, how interesting. :p

[blooming lotus]

and you get more.... more............


idunno.....

I'm busy...


will you stop talking to me so I can try 'n get home...if you really want we'll spar it out.but stfu.for freaks sake ( 5 emails for kfm before I finish my last post :rolleyes: )


:mad: :mad:

[Serpent]

Hey, I'm not talking to you. This is an open discussion forum and I'm responding to your posts. You can subsequently respond whenever you like. You do realise that this is not a chat room, right? It'll still be here tomorrow.

Sadly, so will you, no doubt.

[blooming lotus]

;) here's to hoping :cool:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
look 7*..I started this thread as a hypothetical discussion and you and your stupid ego twists it back to pertain directly to me???


Can we get back to mofo topic doofus??

stop being an ass turnip. I'm asking because it pertains to the thread. All you are doing now is making us think this change you've undergone in posting style is fake, because you are acting like the old bl again. The world doesn't revolve around making you look bad - heck you do a good enough job of that yourself anyway...

[blooming lotus]

Fine.I'll pay that............



Originally posted by SevenStar
how many of them to you actively "practice"?

Generally, I practice several (up to 4 ) no less than a few - 4 x / week....... more if I have a sparring partner.......... no shifu, but some days, too busy to do lil more than some very basic bwe, qigong and dimmak therapies........



FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll be your godammed disucussion guinea!!!!! but anyone else have something to share about their own experience in relation???

[Shaolinlueb]

but who said you need to learn all the forms of a system to be a master of it. a lot of the forms and such are just repeated techniques. im not saying you can learn 2/3 forms form it and be a master.

[blooming lotus]

everyone has their own arsenal / style combo and practices with the need they deem neccessary. It varies from player to player and suprimist, 25 yr 1 kata no parole fans are dreaming....

[scotty1]

"stop being an ass turnip. "

:D Lol!

I'm picturing 7* hunched over his keyboard, boiling with rage, going " mother****er, no, ****face, no, ***** ****er, no.... ASS TURNIP!"

[SPJ]

If you are so good at one thing, you do not need anything else.

Of course, it is important to be flexible in tactics and strategy, too.

Half a step Beng Quan beated every body. (Ban Bu Beng Quan Da Pan Tien Xia) Gou Yun Sen.

Single exchange palm beated every body in China. (Ba Gua)

Agreed that one may practice a single strike or a kata form 25 years. Karate is famous for its iron palm. The chop chop breakes bricks and boards.

In short, it is the quality and not quantitiy that counts.

If you are good at straight punch or round house kick, you may come up with tactics and strategy to set up and use them to your advantage.

MS and Mat are right. It will take time to pick up new moves.

[blooming lotus]

excellent comment

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by scotty1
"stop being an ass turnip. "

:D Lol!

I'm picturing 7* hunched over his keyboard, boiling with rage, going " mother****er, no, ****face, no, ***** ****er, no.... ASS TURNIP!"

:D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus

Generally, I practice several (up to 4 ) no less than a few - 4 x / week....... more if I have a sparring partner.......... no shifu, but some days, too busy to do lil more than some very basic bwe, qigong and dimmak therapies........


4 arts, 4 days a week... how do you split that up?

[scotty1]

q:4 arts, 4 days a week... how do you split that up?

A: "I have a jack of many style ( master of none) system going on"

[blooming lotus]

I do qigong when I wake up, maybe ( but not usually ) follow up with taiji of some sort, dim mak study at night, and whatever style/s singularly or in combo shadow spar at night in the afternoon. Bwe in morning + evening.

Not working for trying to conference / negotiate my way home now, so have just a little more time on my hands than I know what to with. so what you going to do with it??? You're going to work out is what ! :D :rolleyes:

[cerebus]

Peace on you michelle. :p

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I do qigong when I wake up, maybe ( but not usually ) follow up with taiji of some sort, dim mak study at night, and whatever style/s singularly or in combo shadow spar at night in the afternoon. Bwe in morning + evening.

Not working for trying to conference / negotiate my way home now, so have just a little more time on my hands than I know what to with. so what you going to do with it??? You're going to work out is what ! :D :rolleyes:

how much do you feel this is benefitting you? Do you ever intend on learning any grappling?

[blooming lotus]

AS you know, I do , or have and continue a lil, practiced aikido and ninjutsu, but yah, a refresher course is on the list somewhere...... first though , figuring out how to stay alive until they let me home.

this is contingencey only, but for now, it's doing me just fine