who takes 15 min. to do their SIL LUM TAO??

[cha kuen]

I heard that you're supposed to take 15 minutes to do your Sil Lum Tao.

who here takes 15 min. to do their SIL LUM TAO??

[TjD]

i usually take 20 or more minutes... ive taken almost an hour to do it once; this is definately the best thing you can do for your wing chun, it prepares you mentally and physically; it makes you more aware of your body, and center of gravity, and balance. i could go on and on

a slow siu lim tau EVERY day is probably the best thing you can do for your wing chun

peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[cha kuen]

Do you feel the heat sensation in your hands when you do your tan sau, wu sao and fok sau?

[TjD]

definately

its different for everyone ive talked to, but for me i get a heat sensation in my whole body, but its concentrated and focused in my forearms and hands, moreso in the forearms (except mabye with tan sau)

peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[chi-kwai]

You are getting excited about heat in your hand when you should not. Don't confuse this with chi.
Read the book "The Sword Polisher's Record" by Adam Hsu, he goes a bit into detail about this.

On the other hand, taking a while to do sil nim tao is not a bad thing. Here is a thought: instead of doing the form an randomly lengthy amount of time, try doing each section with a certain number of breaths... 6 breaths for fook, 6 back in with jum, 6 fook, 6 jum. this way it will be the same every time. this is all good for stance training and becoming comfortable in what you are doing.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0804831386/qid=997297347/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/002-8384194-3605634

--
chi kwai

[TjD]

when i do SLT i definately dont get excited... and i dont train it for the feelings in my arms

i use it more to train myself mentally than anything

peace

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[Martial Joe]

TjD...That was one of the best things I have ever heard on this forum...your first post that is...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[chi-kwai]

I am not saying you are getting excited doing SLT, I am saying that getting excited over above average heat emanating from your hands may not be a good thing.

--
chi kwai

[greyseal]

Okay. How come your hands would get warm? I get the same thing from doing chi-gung. Is it the same cause of heat there?

[old jong]

I usually take between 30 to 40 minutes to do SLT.It trains the mind as much as the body this way! ;)

[kungfu cowboy]

You are a glutton for punishment, old jong! :D

gif

[This message was edited by kungfu cowboy on 08-08-01 at 07:32 PM.]

[old jong]

Yeah!...I'm a real masochist! :D (Not really!...I prefer this than doing push-ups in the gravel!) :eek:

[jameswebsteruk]

If you do any exercise extremely slowly but constantly for an extended period of time, you will generate heat in your body. Just biology and chemistry.

Hel, recent scientific studies have shown that if you think really hard, your head warms up!

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[kj]

Hello Cha Kuen.

The minimum time for our first set is 15 minutes, and an hour is even better. Less than 15 minutes would be too short for full benefit.

TjD wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i usually take 20 or more minutes... ive taken almost an hour to do it once; this is definately the best thing you can do for your wing chun, it prepares you mentally and physically; it makes you more aware of your body, and center of gravity, and balance.

i could go on and on a slow siu lim tau EVERY day is probably the best thing you can do for your wing chun[/quote]

and Old Jong wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I usually take between 30 to 40 minutes to do SLT.It trains the mind as much as the body this way![/quote]

I agree with both of these comments. The benefits of slow SLT are many and great. There are certain qualities of [our] training that require time to observe, experience, and develop. Expanding and adding a few benefits and qualities to those already noted by Old Jong and TjD:

* overall stability, along with qualities of sunkenness and rootedness
* training and strengthening of the stance
* awareness and control of one's own center, center of gravity, and all elements of stance alignment
* calmness, settling, and relaxation of the body
* calmness, settling, and awareness of mind
* proper positioning of all limbs and body parts throughout the set
* precision of all motions
* development of intent and intentionality (e.g., consistency of intended directions of intended force, rather than magnitude of force)
* increased repeatability and precision of the positions, motions, and intentions, which are translatable to other scenarios. I believe this results from both the physical training process and improved proprioception afforded by the slow practice. Some refer to this concept as "muscle memory." I also believe this contributes strongly, albeit indirectly, to improved "speed." By this, I do not mean a concern for moving "faster" but rather improved responsiveness combined with more immediacy and consistency of precision and directed execution. The proper and precise thought, idea, or intention is trained into, present, inherent in the body and implicit in the mind, before the occurrence of physical motion, and without undue concentration.

A slow first set affords time to observe and correct all of these things, and more. If performed in haste, the practitioner will sacrifice this important opportunity of self-awareness and correction.

I have come to believe that the roots of awareness, sensitivity, and control are borne first through awareness, sensitivity, and control of oneself. I also believe that some of the essential learnings afforded by Wing Chun in general, and in the first set in particular, are [i]experiential rather than something achieved through cognitive or intellectual efforts alone. To me, these are some of the important "little ideas" too easily lost through haste, impatience, or greed.

Regarding warmth in the hands, some feel it more, some less, it is more an observation than anything of concern either way.

Some of my thoughts, anyway, for whatever they are worth.

How long do you take to perform your SLT?

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[This message was edited by kj on 08-09-01 at 05:39 AM.]

[kungfu cowboy]

Great post! :D

[kungfu cowboy]

Ah. I see you are a student of Ken Chung. That explains it! :)

[Nat from UK]

As we progress through our grading sylabus the minimum time to do Sil Lum Tao increases from minimum of 10 minutes for first grade that includes Sil Lum Tao up to a minimum of 1 hour for the more advanced grades.

As a note the time is taken only on the fook sau/wu sau section at the start not the entire form -

Does everyone who practices this form slowly practice the whol form slowly or just this section ??

Nat from UK

[TjD]

we only do the tan fook wu part slowly; the reasoning (as ive been told) for this is that you gather your energy (so to speak) in that section, and then proceed to use that energy it in the rest of the form


my personal feelings on that is:
"energy" is not nessecarily chi (but if you got it, flaunt it :) ), it could also be body structure; center of gravity, and all the other things you work in the slow section

just apply that to the rest of SLT faster


peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[dre_doggX]

I made a new topic my mistake.

Andre Lashley

[kj]

Nat wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Does everyone who practices this form slowly practice the whol form slowly or just this section ??[/quote]

Hi Nat. I answer only for myself. There are many who practice in a very different manner. For a 15 minute set, about 10-12 minutes may be spent on the early sections through the tan/wu/fook sequences; the latter parts of the set are not performed as slowly. However, even the "faster" latter sections can easily take 5 minutes or more, thus our "fast" section may be slower than the entire set for some others. There is no "snappiness" in any part of the set, and no rush to get through any section or movements. Regardless of section and pace, all parts of the set are performed with deliberate yet relaxed and precise placement and positioning.

Hope that answers your question.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Sharky]

i do only the 2nd section - sun pai fat, three palms to bhudda - ie the tan, wu, fook section slowly.

I do the 3rd, last part quite quickly, with a bit of force. Isn't it supposed to work your fa jing? i read a book by yip chun and he describes the 3rd section as the fa jing section.

I spend about 10 minutes on it, sometimes longer like 12-15, but i am an impatient sod, sorry. And at the moment i don't goto class, so i have nothing to sort of make me wanna go for longer.... it's hard to explain....

Anyways good luck everyone.

Edd

My anus is superior™

[CLOUD ONE]

SLT should take a life time.

[Nat from UK]

Cloud One - Nice Answer !!
KJ - Thanks

Sharky - To increase the time it took me to do Sil Lum Tao I practiced it during a 30 minute TV program, noting where i should be during advert breaks etc if the form was to last the full 30 minutes -

Does that sound really sad !?

Nat from UK

[cha kuen]

Kathy

How long have you trained with sifu ken?

[kj]

Hello Cha Kuen,

I have practiced under Ken's guidance for 4 years now. I experienced and practiced Wing Chun of other flavors for 2 years prior to that.

And you?

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[old jong]

Hello Kathy. Nice to have you aboard! :)

[harry_the_monk]

Hi, I'm still really new to WC, I spend different amounts of time on my form depending on where I am and how much time I have to practise. If I am at home, I like to take about 30 mins of practise at least( I also try training my one-legged abilities when at home) :)
When I am at work however, and on a break, I normally only have about 15 mins, so I try to keep it to that 15 mins (when I smoked I would guess my break-time at about 3 ciggies) . I manage to concentrate more on rooting though when I practise at work, and lack of a mirror helps too I think as I have to feel my positioning more than just looking at it in a reflection. :)

Don't know if it is right or not, as I say, I am still a beginner, btw, the heat thing has stopped, I used to get it quite strong, anyone think I may be doing something wrong now??

Peace...

[chi-kwai]

quote:
>>>we only do the tan fook wu part slowly; the reasoning (as ive been told) for this is that you gather your energy (so to speak) in that section, and then proceed to use that energy it in the rest of the form<<<

our sifu has expressed something similar. this is the only part i was told to do slow. the rest should have proper jing. of course, at lower levels, students do all of slt slowly until they are more intimate with it...

--
chi kwai

[cha kuen]

Since SLT seems like WC's internal form, do you guys think that it should be done with the tongue touching the roof of the mouth?

[TzuChan]

When we start we go over the entire form, then since I'm new I have to do for like 25 minutes repetitions of the moves I already know and then we teach a new move and repeat that etc..

When I run into a wall it actually hurts :(

[benny]

some people pay to much attention of the time. espeically when you first start doing long forms you find that you are just leaveing your arm in space and then moveing now and then. after a while you find that you have force going forward while not moveing. this is when you start to do real long forms not by the clock but i like to do it so i have force but i can no longer feel my hand actually moving.
what do people think. i was going for 2 hrs for a while and the most i got to was 1hr 40mins. i had to fall over as my leggs wouldnt move. i had a talk with my teacher and he said the with that deep vien thrombosis( the plane thing) it wasnt a good idea to go much over 40 mins. so i just do 1hr ones now but i have found that when i first started i would lose feeling in my leggs very quickly. but now after an hour it still just hurts(least i couldnt feel them before). so do you think that after doing it for a while you would decease or increase the risk? as not loseing feeling means that the blood it flowing better.
well i dont know so im staying on 1hr to they know more about it. :confused: