Mantis Iron Body/Iron Palm

[sayloc]

1. Do any of you consider the Yi jin Jing effective for Iron
Body?

2. What particular type of Iron body/Palm do you teach/practice?

[sayloc]

No one does iron body/iron shirt, hard to believe.

[yu shan]

Sayloc

I had the opportunity to witness this body conditioning in Taiwan a few years back. Master Shr pounded the c r a p out of one of his senior students using this very heavy bat like object. He struck him in many differant ways. I also saw some two-person conditioning, by basically slamming into each other in various ways. Oh yea, the senior student... had this apparatus rigged in his apartment that when triggered would swing down and pound the day lights out of him, amazing!

Pong Lai conditions alot.

[18elders]

you forgot about the iron crotch guy.

[sayloc]

Yu shan

Do they have a particular method of iron body?

Did you do any of the WL iron body/Iron palm

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Sayloc,
I consider Yi Jinjing effective for iron body training.

The version I am talking about has about 12 simple postures. They all have you standing with the feet together and small differences with the arms.

Each posture is held for a long time while you exhale.
During this time the entire body is tense.
Since there such long intervals of exhaling with super short inhales it can make you feel weak and dizzy in the beginning.

This method is very similar to all the methods I have seen which include Northern and Southern styles as well as Uechi Ryu.

SOme differences are...
1. time spent exhaling.
eg. some schols do it for minutes and some do it for over an hour. That is right, standing there exhaling for over an hour.
Actually that is the kind that Yushan mentioned where you can get hit with a large bat.

2. Exhale on the strike or not.
Some, like White Crane expel some air when getting hit, others keep the body filled like a basketball and don't let any air out when getting hit.

So...
The method is simple, the hard part is just doing it for long periods everyday.

[sayloc]

Hello Tainan

As ussual you show your in depth knowledge of the CMA as a whole. Thanks for your info.

As far as iron body do you consider the yi jin jing more of an internal, external or a combination of the both?

I know of iron body systems that get you to a "finished" level within one year or less. I consider this more of an external chi kung develpoment. The main focus on internal part is just some basic breathing and no sex. (I am not so sure thet the effects of this more "pysical beating" style will be so great on you 20 years later).

I was taught the yi jin jing will take about 3 years to develop iron body. Even though it contains external movement along with massage and striking with the wire bundles I consider this a combination of both. Part of the reason is that I have learned extensive standing post training along with other chikung development exercises before starting the yi jin jing For iron body. (I understand that yi jin jing is not just for iron body and can be taught on differnet levels from beginner to advanced)

Do you feel that the okinawan forms san chin (three battles) or tensho help in the development of iron body? I have learned a form called San Tsan (three battles, mind body, spirit?). It is very similar to these Okinawan forms. I have traced the origin of this form to southern chinese Hakka kung fu which seems similar to southern mantis styles. Does this make any sense to you?



Thanks for your time.

[ursa major]

Originally posted by sayloc
2. What particular type of Iron body/Palm do you teach/practice?

From this statement it appears you see Iron Palm and Iron Body as the same method.

Just to remind, they are not directly related methods.

Best regards,
UM.

[sayloc]

I know that sir.

You could develop your iron palm on your iron body. Kill two birds with one stone,:)

I just thought I may get some in sight into Iron palm at the same time.

I pair them together only because consider them to be at the same level.

have a good day

[bung bo]

i think i read somewhere that shi guolin attributes his iron shirt to yijin jing training.

the one version i'm familiar with is done with feet shoulderwidth apart and the arms in 12 different positions. you visualize clenching your fists on the exhale. some tense their muscles a little to aid concentration. this version may be different than what guolin practices.

[HouZiPiGu]

I'm on a strict regimen of Budweiser and Cheetos in an effort to develop the ultimate Homer-Simpson-belly. You'd be surprised at how much force blubber will absorb in the forms of a punch or a kick.

I'd bet I'm not the only one following this program either.
Don't be shy.

[Lee Kwan Shan]

I do Wha Lum praying mantis, and I also training in not only iron palm/body but also stone warrior, which is, if you don't know already, where you flex all the muscles in your body and perform certain techniques very slowly.

I've found both very effective. I've been doing them for a long time, and I can take a blow to the ribs because of it. Iron body really toughens up your skin and pain threshhold, while stone warrior increases the density of your muscles making them able to withstand a harder blow.

The only thing that's annoying about it is that to be effective you have to do them EVERY DAY and with my schedule that's hard to do. Especially with stone warrior because that takes about an hour and a half to do the entire set.

[Brad]

i think i read somewhere that shi guolin attributes his iron shirt to yijin jing training.
I know Shi Guolin obtained his Iron Body stuff from a familly qigong. I don't know what it's called exactly, and I don't think he teaches it. The peeps on the Shaolin forum should know more details.

[18elders]

i think your user name is a bit disrespectful

[Oso]

Some, like White Crane expel some air when getting hit

this method was taught to me by my hung gar teacher.

as new students we did what he called '1/3 Breathing': ma bu for long periods of time. Start off by inhaling and exhaling fully several times then exhaling all but 1/3 of your lung capacity. Then breath normally but keeping that 1/3 always there. We were supposed to have that 1/3 there to exhale at all times whenever we got hit.

as we progressed we moved on to '2/3 Breathing': same principle but more breath to exhale and disipate the blow.

I had just started trying to do what he termed 'aeration': lungs nearly full at all times, body movement while fighting exchanged the air in your lungs. no 'breaths' were taken. with all this air to dissipate energy from a blow, you could take quite hard hits.

**edit**

but, now I'm more of the beer and cheetos kinda guy



Fatboyz(tm) Rule !!!!!!!!!!!!

[shirkers1]

Lee,

I do something similar to what you are talking about. I honestly don't know what it's called. But it's a series of 5 drills like you speak of where you control your breathing and flex constantly while moving making your muscles really dense but still supple in movement. Combined with the stance work, and the flexing of the upper body and arms you get cut real fast and very hard like “iron”. Then packing the muscles with dar soa som and or my home made iron arm beaters : ) for when I’m by myself.


Now it takes a while to manufacture but I’m telling you from experience it works wonders and will make your arms dense as hell combined with the iron arm workouts. You may think “huh”. But I’m telling you it will work.

Take a bundle of coat hangers the old metal kind. You want the length of the tool to be about as long as the straight part of the hanger itself. Unwrap the coat hanger and straighten it out the best you can, you’ll have the little ridges from where the coat hanger was twisted to make the hanging part. Leave those, you’ll see why later. You should be able to get two to three pieces out of one hanger. Clip the pieces evenly and bundle them all together about as thick as your thumb to finger making a circle maybe a little smaller depending on how big your hands are. Pack them all together in a bundle and put all the pieces with the ridges at the same end and duct tape both ends nice and tight. You have a nice heavy dense hitting tool. After you do your iron arm drills you take this tool and with your arm palm down beat the top from elbow joint to wrist while making a fist. Then the palm up do the same, finally thumb to chest beat the bone part of the forearm. The tool will have a springy heavy hit to it and believe me it will work. Don’t go nuts with it at first build up slowly, if you go too hard you’ll take forever to heal. It will help if you have some good jow. If you guys need some PM me, my teacher makes great stuff and will be able to hook you up. If you keep on top of this your arms will be like steel and when you make contact with someone they will feel it, to the bone.

mark

[SimonM]

Originally posted by HouZiPiGu
I'm on a strict regimen of Budweiser and Cheetos in an effort to develop the ultimate Homer-Simpson-belly. You'd be surprised at how much force blubber will absorb in the forms of a punch or a kick.

I'd bet I'm not the only one following this program either.
Don't be shy.

As someone who has been trying hard to lose the blubber (100 lbs in 2 years!) I wouldn't reccomend the method. Sure you can take a surprisingly large number of body shots without being hurt at all but you move slower so you have to take more. :D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by sayloc
1. Do any of you consider the Yi jin Jing effective for Iron
Body?

2. What particular type of Iron body/Palm do you teach/practice?

considering yi jin jing literally translated is just one mind mechanism, it's hard to believe that ppl find it so esoteric.

bearing this in minds, and the fact that iron skills require some meditational / concentrational / mind based mechanism , focus at most lay terms,

yes: it helps ;)

have practiced various iron forms, most effective comming from falun gong branches, but prefer for personal reasons to cultivate through wingchun / okinawan arts or qigong styles.

[MantisFistMonk]

Originally posted by yu shan
Sayloc

I had the opportunity to witness this body conditioning in Taiwan a few years back. Master Shr pounded the c r a p out of one of his senior students using this very heavy bat like object. He struck him in many differant ways. I also saw some two-person conditioning, by basically slamming into each other in various ways. Oh yea, the senior student... had this apparatus rigged in his apartment that when triggered would swing down and pound the day lights out of him, amazing!

Pong Lai conditions alot.

Hello Yu Shan!

It's KWUsCRD. Glad to see you again! I hope everything is well and you are training as hard as ever!

-

These are not Iron Body/Palm but similiar.

We do The Seven Chambers of Body Conditioning.

And The Three Returns and Nine Rotations of Buddhist Arhats. (Sanhui Jiuzhuan Luohan Gong).

Among other things that focus on the body.

Pretty much the whole workout is conditioning of some flavor or another.

[yu shan]

Excellent! Very good to hear from you. Please tell me how Profatilov Laoshi is doing! He is a good Man and I miss him. Please give him my regards.

The conditioning we did in the park, was it seven chambers or the three returns. I missed what Master Profatilov said and it has bothered me since. It was very special though, Ilya sharing this conditioning with me that day. (very differant)

[flem]

all these skills are great. but i'd really like to witness someone who can exhale for an hour- impressive!

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

lol....

I don't think that's what anyonwe here was saying, but ninjutsu does have a still breath method. Awesome stuff. But when you're in this zone, A. it's easy to maintain for the duration of your session and B. just be careful, because you go into a high speed exaccerbated bodily function thing. If you're really lean, an hour ( even off and on) is getting a little overenthusiastic. For more info google on kuji kiri ( techniques).

Also , while on this, I remember a comment way back from KungLek on Iron skills, saying how when you add breathing techs to a solid routine you're deeply focused on to the exclusdion of all else, You will indeed find yourself practicing Iron skill. Not word for word but I think you get my meaning. If not, do a search and find the post yourself.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Flem,
In moving the chi (xing chi) you exhale until you are empty then take a quick and huge breath for the refill and slowly exhale for a loong period.

When it is tme to get hit you seal(bi chi) the chi and take the strike, then start over again.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

taking the quick huge breath is comprimising your focus.......

try not thinking about it..........

[shirkers1]

Just put up some clips of some iron arm drills I do. As well as pics of the tool I talk about in the post above.


http://shirkers.freewebpage.org/

[Pilot]

We do Iron Body in 8 Step. Don't leave home without Dit Da Jow. :)

[Pilot]

Hi Wolfen! :D

[yu shan]

Where in Alabama are you Eight Step guys? I have only learned one 8-step form, Qi-Shou, single and partnered. Nice little set!

[Pilot]

We are in Birmingham. :)

[yu shan]

Ask your Shifu if it is ok for a visit, I`d like to come down and train sometime. I would like to see Eight Step.

[Pilot]

I’m sure it would be OK, but unfortunately Sifu is in Iraq. He will not be back until about March. Our Sishungs are filling in until his return. :(

[yu shan]

What branch of the military?

[Pilot]

Army

[yu shan]

Sorry Bei, this thread did get off topic. Pilot, I`d like to hear more about your Shifu and his unit he is attached to, pm me if you`d like. God Bless the United States Army.

shirkers1

Thanks bro for the clips. We will meet in Ohio, I look forward to it! I can share some of our conditioning in person.

[shirkers1]

Yu Shan thanks, after stretching those are the opening conditioning drills we do before each class and every day for me. :) Then we go on to the two man conditioning. Yeah ohio should be fun, I heard you have some hard arms. It's always fun to pick up some new things to condition the limbs so I'm really looking forward to it. Already took my 10 days off of work. :)

[Chief Fox]

We do some Iron bone drills but they are all external, no specific controlled breathing.

Here's how we do them.

1. You and a partner stand face to face while in a horse stance.
2. Using your hips you move into a left bow stance.
3. As you move into your bow stance you swing your right arm out low in front of you.
4. You partner is doing the same thing and your forearms make contact.
5. You move back into a horse stance as you swing your right arm up making contact with your partners arm up high.
6. Then you swing your arm down low while still in a horse stance.
7. You then move to the other side and do the left arm.

You can go as fast and as hard as you like.

Sometimes we also ad in an elbow, hand, sweep, abdominal and rib part to the drill.

I've also found that working on a wooden dummy is great for conditioning arms and palms.

[yu shan]

Good one, I`ll add this to the arsenal :cool:

[sayloc]

Chief

The name for the base exercise that you described is called saam sing (three star) hitting

[Frogman]

I like to practice this forearm conditioning frequently, with a partner and solo. It is very easy to do with the wooden dummy, and I have a metal pole in my back yard that works great. It has enough play that it moves but will not come out of the ground. It was used for a clothesline at one time. When I removed the first one I had a hard time so I left the second and use it quit often. Dit Dat Jow is a must. Broadsword pratice before and after forearm conditioning is not a bad idea either. It helps work the muscle and keeps the blood flowing. My favorite conditioning skill is my typing technique. I have burned through five keyboards in a year. Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap. My typing technique is unstoppable your word editor no can defend!

LKS I agree with 18 100%.

I hope everyone has a great holiday.

RibHit
fm
:D