Elite Skills

[blackmantis]

I find that when i'm in combat i actually have to think about the moves that i do. Does anyone know how to develop the ability to simply perform the moves without thinking about it?

S

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by blackmantis
I find that when i'm in combat i actually have to think about the moves that i do. Does anyone know how to develop the ability to simply perform the moves without thinking about it?

S

You might not like the answer, but-

PRACTICE MORE.

it's the ONLY way.


Just like learning to play a musical instrument (or walk and talk if you can remember that far back) it takes 3-5 years putting in 3-5 hours a day.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by QuaiJohnCain
You might not like the answer, but-

PRACTICE MORE.

it's the ONLY way.


Yeah, he is right, practice more. Practice with a partner who is providing 100% resistance. Practice the forms. Practice AT LEAST 2 hrs a day, 6 days a week.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It is also helpful to work with a partner that is not focused of winning.. together you can both analyze movement, leverage energy, balance and technique.. a complete understanding of the technique is a good step in internalizing it.. understand it so that it makes sense, so that it makes sense to use it.. internalizing is much easier if you believe in the technique.. not just something you add to your bag of tricks, something you "know and understand"..

Be well... (hmmm.. i guess that falls under "practice")

[blooming lotus]

human nature dictates that it takes 30 days to make or break a habit. Like the boys've said..practice more, make it part of te way you operate and you'll be there in no time......... throw in some meditation and call it a synopsis ;)

cheers

BL

[SevenStar]

I've always heard 21 days...not a big difference either way though.

[kungfu cowboy]

North of the equator=17.56 days

South of the equator=23.7 days

Within a 7 mile radius of Stonehenge=10 days

[Buddy]

"human nature dictates that it takes 30 days to make or break a habit."

Human nature? Perhaps some study? Either way you pulled it out of your butt

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It occurs to me that as much as we are individuals it is likely difficult to set some specific time period for 'breaking a habit"..

i wonder how long it would take for the self-appointed thread police to break that annoying habit.. it seems that no matter how harmless a remark may be, someone is always willing to turn it into conflict..

Maybe it's the rotten weather (hurricane after hurricane) getting to me, but the pointless and pathetic bickering is quickly reducing this Forum to an effort not worthwhile.. it seems no thread is safe, no comment immune from conflict or aggression.. the juvenile dance of bullies and whiners will sap the last breath decency from a once neat Forum..

<heavy sigh> Be well...

[FngSaiYuk]

It's the overall stress worldwide. Lots of crap happening everywhere. People end up wanting to vent, which just ups the stresslevel for others who now have to wade through the muck for decent info/debate, etc.

If it's troubling, take a break. After all, none of these posts really should affect your life. Any info you find here really should be followed up on so you can verify things on your own.

There are other community 'portals' out there if that's what is sought. This forum is not unique. Or like I mentioned earlier, just skim through the junk in between all the info.

[SPJ]

I always read beyond words. I go to the heart that motivates the thought and then speech or actions. I am not bothered by emotional knee jerk reflexes in words. These things do clutter the mind and blur the perception or reception of the truth from the heart.

I was in debate clubs both in high school and college. I heard argument and counterarguments emotional or rational all the time. But the topic of debate is still there. What do I know about the topic, what do I think about the topic? What are the posts or debate arguments relevant to the topic, noises or not.

The loudest noises come from weakest points. A truthful statement incites a deeper understanding of the topic. Oops, I am talking about Chan again.

You do have to think in combat. You look and analyze the opponent's moves. You find the weak point. You plan and set up to expose the weakest point. Pooh. with the least amount of effort, you prevail. Fight smart and not hard.

If there is a big rock like a mountain on the road, everybody walks around it like a detour. You may climb it or dig a tunnel if you want. We will meet you on the other side.

It is about winning. Why work harder, when you do not need to?

Think. Think and Think.

Practice. Practice and practice. To cover your weakness and put your strong point to good use at the weakest link of the opponent. Winning is about tactics and strategy.

If you fight without thinking, you may be the bull.

Who is the bullfighter then?

You yield to the strongpoint, you set up and you counterattack. Ask the bullfighter how he or she does it?

:)

[BAI HE]

You do what you train to do.

Drill your basics and apply them. Play to your strengths and use the things you, don't have to think about."Play your game" not his.

That is your real GUNG-FU.

[Chinese Guy]

Practice your skill until it becomes your naturalism.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Buddy
"human nature dictates that it takes 30 days to make or break a habit."

Human nature? Perhaps some study? Either way you pulled it out of your butt

actually, I pulled it out of my psychology / couselling text books yrs ago then Anthony Robins nlp programmes thereafter. Of course, there must be acceptions, but as a general standard, that's it ;)

[Ray Pina]

Funny I fought and was disqualified in the Wan Fe Hung tournament this weekend and something strange happened.

I was paired up with a 240lbs guy for my first fight, I now weight 198.

The guy charged hard the first three exchages. All I could do was ride it out and get a feel for his weight and power. He had a lot of both and vigor too at young 20 something.

I foundmyself, to my amazement, switching to old Ishin-Ryu tactics, stuff I used as a kid. I watched the video and even saw me pulling my pant leg up a bit to load the side kick.

It softened the guy up. I landed some good kicks to his belly and it tired and weakened him .... took the fight out.

Then I went back to what I wanted to do. Use a low front kick to draw his low defense and charge in .... it was at this point I got disqualified for face contact.

Appears you can hit the side of the head but not the face. But throwing a hook against a guy with 42 lbs on you kind of asks to be run over, you need straight.

Interesting lesson in there somewhere. Kind of disapointed I couldn't use my game plan to beat this guy straight out, but glad I was smart enough to change and adapt.

I'll post the footage when my friend can get it to me on disk, tomorrow or Wed.

....

Faced the guy later in Chi Sau, I got thrown out of that one too. That's another post.

[SPJ]

Good posts and good tactics and strategy.

The opponent used his weight advantage to charge. You avoided the front. You set up a fake low and a real high attack. You caught him when he was not prepared and where he was not guarding. (Gong Qi Bu Bei; Gong Qi Bu Fong. Sun Tzu 2500 years ago)

I was trying to avoid turning this thread into a Chan thread.

Anyway.

One pointedness of mind and body or no mind.

When you see an opportunity, your steps, your fists or your weapon are there. (Shou Dou Jiao Dou)

Zen and samurai ( 800 years).

Chan and Shaolin Kungfu (1500 years).

Meditation and Wu Dang.

Use your will to guide your Qi. Use your Qi to move your Li. (Tai Ji).

On and on.

[Ray Pina]

This thread got me thinking about a similarity in surfing:

You see the wave coming at you and you need to decide a) paddle towards it, b) stay where you are or c) paddle towards shore to get into shallowe water.

Once you determined that, you need to decide if its breaking right or left, or maybe closing out and you don't want it at all.

Then, you have to decide if you will a) paddle straight towards shore and turn into the wave once you catch it, or b) catch it on an angle and start going right away.

This is all conscious preperation, reading what's going on, putting yourself in position. ONCE YOU ARE UP AND GOING YOU'RE SURFING, GOING WITH WHAT THE WAVE DOES.

Think about this and fighting. You shield be constantly reading the guy, what he's trying to do, tendencies he's showing. You formulate your game plan and choose when to engage. But once engaged your training should take over.

Chi sau more. Chi sau as often as you can. That will train your hands to find the holes on their own, hopefully train your elbows to do the blocking while they do their thing. This frees you up to almost watch the fight, act as the general, not the troops.

[CD Lee]

Maybe this sounds a little 'out there', but I think working a movement slowly with a willing partner works wonders for being able to 'feel' the essence of movements, and then making that feeling a natural thing, rather than a contrived thought process.

Hawk graps Sparrow is a good example. If done slowly for a while, you feel the uprooting with the entry, the blending, then the grasp while stepping or turning or whatever you are doing. This movement should be a natural movement once learned this way.

As someone said, this approach is learning what the technique DOES, not just that it is some movement. It helps one learn and understand the essence of the energy being manipulated and applied.

[Ray Pina]

Actually, I train what you're talking about a lot CD Lee.

In training drill fist, I have a partner collapse me and I slowly try to pick him up just using bear power, trying to relax all the muscles that aren't doing the job.

That's part one.

Then you train picking the collapsing arm up and turning it out using the elbow while striking with the fist, but train the mechanics. YOu do it over and over and pick up the intensity.

Then in fighting, say if a wing chun guy pac sau's you, you automatically pick it up, get inside, open him up and hit.

Training and fighting are different. Just like sighting your scope on the traget range and shooting at someone who's shooting at you is different.

[looking_up]

Stop thinking "technique". Just get to know your body, move, and tag. That's all you can afford to "think" about, isn't it?

[Ray Pina]

I think these training drills are of the "getting to know your body" variety.

Train, train, train .... test, test, test. You don't think about the technique of tying your shoe because you are acquinted with it. But there is a technique to it. There is a technique to buttoning a shirt as well.

Get familiar with your fighting system.

[looking_up]

Word. If you know that the elements are more than just "techniques", you know what I'm talking about.

[BAI HE]

But as CD said, you have to start to apply it functionally. A slower speed is usually a good idea. If you are just getting used to applying or using Nei Jin principles? Best to go slower and adhere to what you are trying to get or feel.

You can do it fast as well if you build toward it... the real point is that speed won't get you there, power wont get you there.. when you get there? Speed and power arrive.

[Buddy]

Kelvin,
"It does sound a little out there and you may be making a big deal out of nothing. It's not like you think of step one, step two etc. You should just do it like in real fighting."

You know nothing about real fighting and less about internal martial arts so shut the fuk up

[blooming lotus]

is that right Mr. victim of "let's humour him for a while , give him some rope and see how far he takes it????"


you're an egg and if you believe everything you read , you're more sucker than player , and If I didn't feel sorry for you, I'd be rflmao:rolleyes:


too cool for this gal ;) :rolleyes:

[cerebus]

bl, that's "roflmao". I've already taught you that once. This is your remedial re-training class.

And you can rest assured we don't believe everything we read (especially when it comes from you & ego ;) ).

[blooming lotus]

my remedial retraining class??

don't worry, I'm very very patient and if you need retraining, you've come to th right person ;) :) :) :)

[Buddy]

Michelle,
You lack the basic skills to be understood. My daughter howled at your use of English. 30? she asked. I said I know honey but I've known ozzys that could write quite well.
BTW I'm not convinced you are a "gal"

[cerebus]

LOL! Even Gene Ching has his doubts about bl's "gal-ness". :D

[blooming lotus]

We've had this discussion here before about video instruction and I think most of us agreed, as long as you have a good base in one art or other, in lieu of having a teacher available , it's probably not so funny. Not as good as the real thing, but valid nonetheless.

[Buddy]

Fortunately for Bai He, he HAS the real thing. And access to better.

[blooming lotus]

better than the real thing??

I think I'd pay to see that. Look, trite comments like the above are little more than displaying your immaturity and I'm going for lunch so happy trolling.

[Buddy]

Blewme,
"better than the real thing? I think I'd pay to see that."


Really, how much? I'm the real thing and my teacher and seniors are better. Bai He has access to both. Sorry logic aludes you.


"Look, trite comments like the above are little more than displaying your immaturity"

When you start being a parent you can comment about maturity. It's not just a matter of biology, any **** can pop a kid out. It takes an adult to live up to the responsiblity.

"and I'm going for lunch so happy trolling.'

If nothing else, I've got you to admit you're out to lunch.

[Buddy]

Kelvin,
"Is this another of your unbiased comments. Of course you say everything associated with you is good. eg. your students, your family, your daughter, your acting, your command of English."


Finally you recognise the truth.

"Funny how in our troll off you're the one who had to dig words out from the gutter.'

I didn'y have to dig them, they came readily, you know, with my superior vocabulary and all.

"Maybe if you can see past your ego, you'll find a better perspective of good and bad. Maybe someday you'll discover the real thing."

Maybe so but you won't be anywhere near it, faker.


__________________

[Finny]

Ego, it seems pretty bloody simple to me.

You said 'Bai He, OH NO! are you learning martial arts from a CD?' - obviously your reading comprehension skills need tuning. He said 'As CD said' not 'As THE CD said'.

BL then picked up on your stupidity and ran with it, rambling on about video learning.

Buddy simply said that no, Bai He's NOT learning from a video, he's learning from a real, live instructor. ie. 'the real thing'

He said Bai He has access to 'the real thing', and better. Meaning he has access to an instructor, and also someone/people who are better than his instructor - ie. better than Buddy. Meaning Luo De Xiu and Buddy's seniors. How egotistical.

BL in her haze of constant stupidity misinterpreted his comments and attacked him - 'better than the real thing??' - funny that, for an english teacher she doesn't seem to be able to understand or write legible english.

Perhaps the both of you should learn to shut your yaps and spend more time reading than writing.

[cerebus]

Finny is extremely correct. *Bows* :)

[Finny]

Right-o mate.

FWIW I've been lurking here for years. I practise what I preach - reading more than writing. I just registered to reply to this thread. I've seen Buddy actually contribute worthwhile information to various forums. What've you contributed besides abuse?

Well done on the Santa Claus thing by the way, very mature comeback.

Seems sadly ironic you advising him to get over his ego.

This will be my last reply to this thread, given that I'm not really involved or contributing anything to the discussion.

I just really wanted to offer you that advice - read more than you write, and only write when you really have something to say, or a question to ask. It'll make the forums a much more enjoyable and educational place for everyone.

I've seen some of the most knowledgeable martial artists in the world leave the Japanese martial arts forums because of newbies and trolls hassling them when they were kindly answering questions. Lets try to keep that sort of negativity to a minimum ok?

Cheers,

Brendan

[SPJ]

Finny mate;

Enjoyed reading your posts and agreed.

In response to the first post:

How do you respond with countermove without thinking?

If you pratice them as 1-2-3.

If someone punches you in the face with his fist; (1)

You raise your left forearm to Tiao and punch his chest or abdomen with your right fist. (Pao Quan in Xing Yi)

If the opponent moves back and uses his left forearm to intercept (Lan or Jie) your right fist; and swings about his right fist back to hit your nose. (Mantis or Tong Bei) (2)

You move back and swing up your right forearm to intercept or Guo and do a sidekick with your right foot.

On and on.

Like a chess play. People think 2 or 3 steps ahead.

You practice your moves and countermoves in a set of 3 or more.

When in fight, the opponent move a single move at a time. You are thinking or moving with at least 3 moves in sequence, if needs to.

You pratice countermoves to counter the opponent's countermoves.

1-2-3.

[SPJ]

Agreed that fight is random and unpredictable.

The basic idea of 1-2-3;

Your move will be countered. You look for these countermoves, they can be several or more.

You think and practice what if your move is countered with what. What to do next?

It is not uncommon in the Toulu of Mantis or Shaolin. There are moves and countermoves in a series of 3 upto 7 or more.

If you practice strikes in a series or in a combo,

Why not practice the move-countermove- counter countermove in a serie or combo?

Actually, Wing Chun or Mantis, they temporarily restrain one or both hands of the opponent, then come the strike (3).

Of course, you may get the opponent in the first move.

But to an experienced fighter, your first move will always be countered. If not, the fight is over at the first move.

If you have a reflex or logic of 1-2-3, if needs to.

Or even just 1-2.

You study this way slowly in practice. How to reposition, your fist blocked, intercepted or even grabed, how to turn around or how to neutralize and counter attack.

When in fight, you are more prepared in mind and body.

[Ray Pina]

I don't know, maybe I'm ignorant, but when I can I like to use set ups to guarantee an outcome .... strike the upper gate to force a block to open the lower. Feint a kick to the knee to lower the guard so you can jam it and strike the face.

Of course, the other guy is not a statue. If he's collapsed, he's either going to try to pick you up (in which case you let him and get elbow position underneath) or he'll run the hand, in which case you just hit.

The point, because there are limitations, predicatability is high. The only unknown is how he'll open. That's why, when I feel I can I like to engage with a set up. My last fight I couldn't ... the guy was big and agressive. I had to wait.

[SPJ]

EE;

Every body may have his or her opinions.

No, you do not have to agree with me.

EF mentioned a good point.

To fake the first attack to induce the opponent to a certain move, you then go head with your setup.

This is called Yin Shou Zhang (lead hand) in Tong Bei.

It fakes a Shuai Zhang (back throw hand) to the face, the opponent will engage with a block. You then turn your hand around in a circle and go outside and attack.

It is difficult to explain in words.

I simply reported that in many schools of Wushu, there are sets of moves and countermoves.

You want be flexible. How to be flexible? that is the question.

You may not need to defend "fixed" zones around you. Because you may always move away.

Good discussions.

I have many teachers. No, I am no stoogies. I'd rather be a muskateer.

Cheers.

:D

[SPJ]

Good points.

If you may win on the first strike, yes go ahead and hit the face and follow with more strikes.

What if your first strike is blocked, please advise what to do next?

What if your first strike is blocked, and the opponent counterstrikes, what to do then?

If you are thinking about it now in fight, it is too late.

That is what I mean to study 1-2-3 several possible senarios.

A smart bunny always have 3 nests.

If you only have plan A, what if it does not work?

Where is your plan B?

I enjoy your view of single strike, one plan and win it all.


:cool:

[SPJ]

On the same note.

We do not need fire exit, fire stairs, because we have an elevator and the main door.

When the main outlet is blocked by the fire, we only have to bang into the walls or run into the fire.

Agreed to your point, we do not need fire drills?

The hospital does not need backup power or emergency lights, because we have the main power. The earth quake takes the powers out, we all have infrared visions.

The fire exists are jokes then. We are all cartoonists, we may walk tru the wall or the fire.

[SPJ]

WTC on 9/11;

It took people more than 1 hour to walk down the fire stairs when the towers were struck.

I wonder how is the strategy now for fire evacuation in the freedom tower.

:confused:

[SPJ]

EE;

Actually, you are right. We may not pre-plan a fight or a foot ball game.

However, we are still "trained" to respond to "what if" drills.

The foot ball practice or basket ball practice and even the fireman, police etc are all doing mock drills or practices.

You are a scientist and retired Army man.

I owe you the Greatest respects.

:D

[Buddy]

"You make me laugh! The act of the opponent's block will instantly reveal the next course of action. There is no need to pre-plan."

Eggo,
You're only fight is the one with your sanity, nancyboy

[cerebus]

SPJ, eggo is neither a scientist nor a retired military man. He is a young kid with nothing to offer but lies. Are you gullible enough to believe him? If so, I'm sorry for you.

[BAI HE]

why waste the first hit with a fake to draw up their guard and then do this and that is beyond me. So if that doesn't work do you move on to plan B and plan C. Sounds like a Cayote trying to catch the Road Runner with Acme devices.

Why not use listening or testing Jin? These when refined are at the core of "Elite" skills.

As far as waste? If the block never comes there should be a strike. So hoe "Fake" is "fake". If you don't have the ability to draw an opponent out or manipulate him into showing what he's got? Study something else.

You train to respond. Maybe it's set in application across the board. What comes out comes out. The idea is to train.

You obviously haven't trained since the 'Nam and have not forwarded me your real name and contact info so I can forward it to a man you must have fought with in the Il Drang Valley...

You must be for real.... 7 years people have been listening to your horse****. 7 years you've been hiding behing a fake story and a non-existent wheelchair. It's like Wonder Woman's invisible jet...

[SPJ]

Thanks EGO;

You are very polite in presenting a different view.

I may not argue against an advice. My upbringings said that you never argue against an advice as if you turn your head away from a gift.

When I first started in the forum, BL supported my few threads. I also supported her threads in return ever since. It is very difficult to post in her bashing threads. I posted a few in her support. You did the same.

Personality debate is not my thing. Or it is just an empty exercise.

However, issues of substance are my breads and butter. In debate club or Chan sessions.

Please post more issues or viewpoints, so that I may agree and move to your side.

For personal issue posts, I will be of no help.

:)

[SPJ]

Thanks for watching out for me. Cerebus.

I owe you one.

:cool:

[Buddy]

"why waste the first hit with a fake to draw up their guard and then do this and that is beyond me."

Of course it's beyond you. You have no real training or background. You're just a pathetic little troll.

BTW when Bai He came to me he already had extensive training in Shotokan and White Crane. He came, he saw, and more importantly he felt. He felt the power that could be delivered with such relaxed ease that he wanted it himself. No brag, just fact. Then he met my senior and my teacher and that open his eyes to a whole 'nother world. My teacher is a great and humble man but his skill is frightenly profound. But you wouldn't know anything about that. The real world scares you.

[Buddy]

"As with other northern styles, it is the relaxation - or the release of the tension the creates the movement / power. I know you're making a big thing out of it because it seems counter intuitive to people who have not done northern kung fu. Baji and Piqua uses the same principals."

Well I know that's what you've read (and no actual experiance with) but you're wrong. It's a different body method. You might want to read more widely. But don't bother with actual study and practice because that might la little too demanding.

"Just wondering how is BaiHe adapting to this method of movement? Maybe I shoud ask him myself "

Ask away. But you only want to do so behind the protection of the keyboard, little man.

[SPJ]

I like Buddy's post about his teacher.

My teachers were always talking about how great their teachers were.

My teachers only talked a little or nothing about themself.

:)

[SPJ]

EE;

Your post is pointing to something very fundamental in Baji and Pi Gua.

Yes, most if not all northern styles are Da Pi Da Gua.

Pi is from above going downward.

Gua is from the below going upward.

There are big swings of arms up and down.

There are bigger movements of steps, too.

In contrast, karate or some "pure" southern boxings are tight and narrow in postures and smaller arm movements.

For example, Er Zi Chien Yang Ma is a narrow Ma Bu as in Wing Chun.

However, CLF and other southern derivatives of the northern, there are also big movements, kicks, jumps etc, too.

Nei Jia Quan is a total different story in body posture and Jin mechanics as Buddy pointed out.

Yes, if you study karate and white crane first and then look at Tai Ji or Ba Gua. You will be indeed amazed if not awe-struck.

Trying to bring the correctness from both sides to the table.

It is also true that you have to study and practice both Wei Jia vs Nei Jia.

If you only read about it or just watch the moves without any knowledge or skills. You are not really appreciating them as Buddy pointed out.

:)

[SPJ]

In debate clubs, I was a moderator or a judge myself, too.

If you say your point and back it up with evidences or quotes from reliable sources, you may have or win your argument.

If you resort to personal attacks, name calling, you will just lose your credibility and a waste of time, nothing more.

In each debate presentation, you really do not have time to do that.

You want to make the best of your allotted time to "prove" your points and disapprove the opponent's points.

Maybe in the internet forum, there is a culture of name calling and personally loathing tactics to "win" a point.

However, in a business, science meeting or a formal debate, these are considered disclosure of weakness or losing your points. They are major turn-offs. They are big signs saying that you lose your arguments therefore you lose your calmness. "LOSER" signs flashing on your forehead.

Peace.

:)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

SPJ: succinct, appropriate and quite correct..

Loss of composure, resorting to personal attacks on someone's character, and other such nonsense erodes much of whatever value may have been present in their post..

If one cannot maintain composure and civility from a keyboard, it is much less likely they can do so in combat.. Aside from that it simply calls into question their own character..

Be well...

[BAI HE]

The Nei Jin is a whole different ball of wax.
You have to train it to understand.
My whole game, my whole body and my whole approach have changed.

See SPJ's earlier post.

My experience in WCrane was that the internal training is done to prepare and "soften" or counteract the effects of extreme Wai gung on the body.

That's not the same as developing Nei Jin in BGZ, TCC or XY.

[Buddy]

Bob,
You've got that whole passive-aggressive thing down pat.

"Loss of composure, resorting to personal attacks on someone's character, and other such nonsense erodes much of whatever value may have been present in their post.."

Just learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. To continue with cliche, not everyone wants to cast pearls before swine.


"If one cannot maintain composure and civility from a keyboard, it is much less likely they can do so in combat.. Aside from that it simply calls into question their own character.."

The first part of your statement in unfounded and idle speculation which can certainly be determined readily. The second is, well...it's tough to care about opinions from behind a keyboard.
I notice in none of your pithy comments did you ask about anyones "elite skills".

[Buddy]

But Eggo,
In that you were allegedly disabled during the Vietnam war in an era when these styles were unavailable to Westerners, when and where exactly did you gain any experience in these styles. Why do insist on discussing subjects you know nothing about? Your "take" on Bagua? On what do you base this "take"?

[Buddy]

Well that's a mighty fanciful tale, Kelvin. So you learned to speak Vietnamese and wound up a "temple" where they taught you "kung fu"- Baji and Pigua, I presume. And this is after you betrayed your country by deserting your duty. But you managed to fight in 'illigal' fights after being disabled. I wonder if Frank Dux has heard your tale.
I am glad I got you to deliver this bit of fiction though. I doubt that there is anyone out there now who doubts you are completely full of sh*t.

[Ray Pina]

"no 2 blocks are the same, therefore you cannot pre-plan what to do next."

Actually, their is only a few possibilities. He blocks you from the inside out, outside in, cuts you down, or intercepts you from below. He can also shield you straight on.

What you do after your attack has met up with any of these should be trained and trained and trained. For example, they block from the outside in like a Karate Middle Block, keep the momentum going but give them the elbow instead.

I'm not saying you say to yourself, "Oh, he blocked me like this so I do this." It's that you've felt that type of collapsing a million times and fold on your own already. It's reaction based on knowledge.

I was thinking about what is fight anyway, and I came up with this:

I know what is favorable and what is not favorable. I try to promote the one while impeding the other.

[SPJ]

EGO;

It is difficult to read what you are trying to say in your last post.

No, CLF and Pi Gua are not the same.

Pi Gua requires extreme flexibility around shoulder and hip joints, steps and back, too.

You really have to practice the basic Gong to go any further with it.

If you said that you went to war 3 times and injured and picked up Pi Gua at not so young age. It is very difficult to believe that you may succeed.

You are right that the generation of power are different between CLF and Pi Gua.

[BAI HE]

Buddy,
Kelvin can speak Vietnamese because he is Vietnamese.
He also speaks some Transformer gobbledeygook as well.

Kelvin also has never studied Pi-Gua. He is a strip-mall Mantis man. He once said that Pi-Gua was what White Crane should have been. He totally disregarded the fact that that WC's roots far pre-date Pi-Gua and the related "Northern Styles".

[Finny]

hehehe

I had said I wouldn't reply again to this thread, but this is just too funny.

The fighting in 'illigal' mathces which were a boat trip from the temple to the city. The money I earned, I donated it all to the temple.

This is a direct rip-off of Rambo 3. He goes AWOL from vietnam, travels to a buddhist temple in Thailand, and fight in 'illigal' matches to donate the money to the temple. Even the boat trip from the temple to the fight is the same.

Please post pictures of your mullet back in those days Ego - this is absolutely essential. Without visual confirmation of a mullet, we will regard this story as completely false.

Very funny. Had me laughing.

Clearly you need to do some more meditation.

[Buddy]

or medication.

[unixfudotnet]

Originally posted by blackmantis
I find that when i'm in combat i actually have to think about the moves that i do. Does anyone know how to develop the ability to simply perform the moves without thinking about it?

S

Like other said, practice. There is a reason that you keep having to do the same thing over and over again :) It should be a reflex, thinking slows you down. Doing the movement also trains your body to do it as well as your mind.

Trust in the system you are learning, as it has been taught for many many years the same way (for the most part). In battle and war, there is little time to think, and thinking can be dangerous when you need to react appropriately as soon as possible.

Thinking is generally only useful for when you are learning and trying to figure stuff out when practicing etc, but in a fight, you _have_ to just react, and do it fast, or you will lose :)

After a while, instinct of everything you have done will become more to face, and you will be able to do what you have to with what you have been trained.

That is one of the things about these martial arts, you get what you put into in. The more you practice, the better you will get. You decide your path, and hard work and patience will be rewarded :)

Wish you luck, as well as patience and courage to do the parts of your art which you may not like much ;)

I like the feeling I get when my legs are jelly after all the stances and I can barely lift my arms up, heh. Also, only hard work on my part will enable me to be at the skill level of the teachers and senior students at my school :)

I apologize in advance, I did not mean to repeat things others may have said (I didn't read all 6 pages). I just wished to voice my thoughts and opinions :)

[SPJ]

Well said.

Agreed.

:)

[SPJ]

Excellent posts.

I grew up hearing many and many war stories from personal accounts and not history books.

My teachers and my relatives. Hey, if you read Chinese histories, they are full of countless wars for 5000 years.

No story is less significant than others.

A few favorites.

1.The flag ship of Qing's Bei Yang fleet "Ding Yuan". It fought bravely till ammo out. The money for ammo was allocated to build Yi Ho Yuan for Empress Tzi Xi by Yi Kuan. Ding Yuan tried to ram the Japanese flag ship but was torpedoed and sunked. The whole fleet vanished under the dusk over the open Northern China Sea.

It was a defeat. But all the soldiers fought well to the very end. Some survivors were captured and sent to Japan.

I turned to tears everytime I heard the story of Ding Yuan and the Bei Yang fleet.

2. The defense of Shanghai, the largest city in China.
Colonel Xie held up in Si Hong warehouse. A female young student sent a National flag thru ensieging Japanese Army. The only flag still flew in Shanghai. The holding up was necessary to let the main Nationalist Army to evacute and to fight at another time. Every single soldier in the warehouse has hearts of all people in China. Again I turned to tears.

On and on.

Thanks for sharing another soldier story.

From a son of a family of many soldiers, I salute to you EGO.

Back to tearing.

:D

[Buddy]

SPJ,
It's all a bunch of crap. He was never in a war and he dishonors those who were. His story is straight out of Rambo and Bloodsport. That he is allowed to continue this charade (and allowing a banned member to post under his name) is appalling. This...fictional kelvinthing should be banned.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(In essence I became the jungle, the call of the creatures were like the call of the wild, giving me direction and ppurpose)

nice story, if you listen i think their still calling you to come back, they miss you:cool:

[Buddy]

"Relying on my Native American"

read:born in New Jersey

"senses as my guild that was honed to an instinctive level from generations of hunters,"

And the guild was the precursor to the Trade Union. Kelvin's a Wobbly!

"I felt I ascended to a primeval state, a sense of self beyond self, a place I call home."

Ascended? What were you before ascended to this primeval state, an invertabrate? Never mind, I answered my own question.

"The soldiers screams, its the jungle, its the jungle"

Col Kevlin Kurtz--"the horror..the horror..."


"During the later stages of US operations, the US was not only negotiating politically to free the POWS but there were dozons of special force missions to support the Nixon talk"

And everyone doing the Nixon walk.


"Because I knew that man and he spoke to where he was heading, I could not leave him behind, although his last words to me before his ill fated mission was to return to the US and spread the art and leave Vietnam "

Or Cambodia, but who cares about consistancy in fiction?


"That night I prayed to my ancestral spirits for guidence and strength (being 1/2 american indian"

Odd... the Natives I know don't take kindly to that term.

"We hit the vietnamese village hard in the dead of night, gatling guns from the choppers poured out surpressing fire"


Gattling guns? Holy anachronism, Kelvman

"we rescued 12 pows but documents revealed that a deal was made with the chinese government to hand the Instructor over for crimes he had committed."

Documents, we don't need no steenking documents!

"I had to go it alone, for a firiend and honor of not leaving your buddies behind."

Somehow I have no problem believing that you never left your buddie's behind. Is that Crisco I smell?

[bamboo_ leaf]

buddy, give the guy a brake. its the jungle. its calling him back.
if we are lucky he will listen.:cool:

[Buddy]

leaf,
If we're really lucky Martin Sheen will find him during the water buffalo ceremony.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Well Ego, i dont know. i am retiered from the Army BTW.
so i might have a slightly differnt veiw of what elite skills are.
In IMA i really dont think many reach a level where they have them.

you write well and tell an intersting story. I like the movies better:cool:

[Buddy]

leaf,
You seem like a nice enough sort, but if you consider egg's writing in the least bit "good" you really need to step up your reading matter. He would need a serious infusion of IQ to even reach hack level. It lacked sequence, grammer, spelling, and I won't even go to originality. The phrase "blew chuncks" comes to mind

[BAI HE]

Funny, most Vietnam veterans, both family and friends never speak on the subject. Nor do my friends who served in the gulf.
Some thing are best left alone...

Nice to Eggo nominating himself for a KFM purple heart or lifetime achievement award.

[Samuel Browning]

Over on Bullshido we have been informed that someone over here has made certain claims regarding being involved in the liberation of 12 POWs during the Vietnam War. Since I was unable to find the post in which this claim was originally made I will not attack a particular poster but I will post some information for the sake of discussion. The following is a quote from Benjamin F. Schemmer's book "The Raid" (Avon Books, New York, 1976).

"Son Tay was not the first rescue attempt in Southeast Asia in this conflict; it was , in fact the 71st "dry hole". In South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, 91 such rescue operations were mounted between 1966 and 1970. At least 45 of them, probably closer to 50, were triggered by reports of U.S. POWs. Seventy-nine of the operations involved outright raids. Of the 91 rescue operations, 20 succeeded--in resuing 318 South Vietnamese soldiers and 60 civilians. But of 45 raids mounted to rescue American prisoners, only one succeeded. Army Specialist Fourth Class Larry D. Aiken was rescued on July 10, 1969, from a Viet Cong POW camp, but he died in an American hospital 15 days later of wounds inflicted my his captors just before his rescue." (p. 237)

Similarly in John L. Plaster's more recent book, "Sog, The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam" (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1997), pp. 275 Aiken is the only American prisoner who is mentioned as being liberated in Vietnam, and Plaster writes: "During the entire war, SOG-initiated raids liberated 492 ARVN but not one living American." (p. 289) Plaster who is a former member of SOG, discussed a number of sensitive topics like people who had won the medal of honor in Laos and other cross border ops, but agrees with Schemmer that no Americans other then Aiken were recovered from NVA-VC captivity though a few Americans who previously escaped from such captivity like Charles Wilklow and Nick Rowe were recovered by friendly forces as they were fleeing cross country, AFTER their escape.

So if anyone asserted that they helped rescue 12 American POWs during Vietnam, either in one, or multiple incidents they are simply not telling the truth.

[Samuel Browning]

This incident however has never been mentioned in any of the relevant books like Plaster's text on SOG so please understand that I'm still quite suspicious. However, I can propose two ways to verify your information.

1) Provide a neutral, respected, member of this board with a release so that they can obtain you service history contained on your military records. I will be happy to obtain a blank version of this release which I can obtain in less then 48 hours. It should provide your postings, the military schools you attended, and other relevent information, such as whether you were ever parachute trained, went through special forces training, or were assigned to Vietnam. This would tend to support your story. I would also be happy to refer your story to B.G. Burkett of Texas who is the best investigator in the United States of such claims.

2) Tell me your name, the name of the unit you were assigned to that day, the names of any and all deceased from that operation. The unit that helicopter was assigned to, where the operation took place, and the name of the commanding officers of your unit. squad, platoon, company, battalion, ect . And please don't plead national security, if you wanted this to remain secret you wouldn't have brought the subject up.

Burkett provides hundreds of stories in his book "Stolen Valor" of men who have made up all kinds of Vietnam claims later to have them debunked. I hope you are not in this catagory, but if you want to talk about a sensational, previously, unknown POW rescue operation and have people believe your tale, the burden of proof is on you.

Please tell me if you are interested in proving your assertion.

[cerebus]

LOL! You're gonna have fun tryin' to tap-dance your way outta it now eggo. If Sam Browning is checking your claims, you'd dam well better be telling the truth. 'Course we know you're lying, but that won't stop you from continuing to claim the same BS though, will it? :rolleyes:

[Buddy]

Just write it up and send it to me Kelvin. I'll forward it to Mr. Sam. Call and raise.

[Samuel Browning]

Its your choice whether you wish to co-operate or not. If your story was true it would lead to a major revision of the history of pow rescue attempts in SE Asia. Notice that I cannot say your story is impossible because without further information I cannot prove a negative. However it is suspicious that there is no mention of this operation in the existing litature when Plaster's book has already discussed such planned operations in Laos during the war.

There are basically two issues that are still classified concerning the Vietnam war. 1) The US does not want to admit it sent any AMERICANS into North Vietnam on raids (as verses South Vietnamese) though Plaster mentions some such activities in his book on p. 69. 2) The subject of American POWs in Vietnam AFTER the war is still controversal.

The rescue and death of American POWs during the war even in Laos is no longer sensative. It may be "classified" but since they didn't go after Plaster they won't go after you.

If you do decide to publish a book with such claims you will have to answer these very questions. If you are claiming SOG I'm sure Plaster either knows you, or knows some one who worked with you and can at least vouch you were in this unit. Will you work with us here?

[cerebus]

Really? Which mods are you referring to? All the ones I asked about it said you're fulla malarky. Give us some names. Either that or we can ask EVERY mod here and when they ALL say you're lying, then you'll be walking around with your skirt tucked into your panties again.

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Samuel Browning,

You seem to know almost as much as I do. Are you a publisher or work for the government?

Buddy,

Very funny, the mods don't like me posting my war experiences. I'm not going to get myself banned on your account.

Neither, I'm a lawyer who studies the history of the Vietnam conflict. And that begs the point, which Mod are you claiming erased your post? If you provide a name we can certainly ask them if it is true and then ask for an exemption so you can provide the information I and others have requested.

[cerebus]

eggo, you're a waste of perfectly good oxygen. Just throw yourself in front of a truck & get it over with will ya? :rolleyes:

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Maybe it is the mods, maybe its someone else who's deleting my posts. I've bolted my doors and pulled down the blinds of my curtains. i knew i shouldn't have talked about my war expereince, now they're all after me. I started talking about it, because people on the forum kept pushing me, called me a lier and a chicken.

I hope you know this sounds like an excuse not to back up your claims or an extreme example of paranoia. Guess what, the Vietnam war has been over for almost 30 years, (1975) no one is going to send the trench coated men after you since they didn't go after Plaster. Anyway they're mostly preoccupied with tracing potential terrorists in the USA these days, not with someone asserting a dodgy sounding story from Nam.

[cerebus]

I'm guessing that what needs to happen here is that everyone cancels their KF Magazine subscriptions and boycotts all products sold through the mag until eggo gets booted off the forum. I'll start with all my own friends & training partners and see how many I can get to follow up with me.

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Samuel Browning,

"Anyway they're mostly preoccupied with tracing potential terrorists in the USA these days,"

Tell your agency that I'm not working with terrorist. i have defended this country and asked nothing back in reutrn. Then one day this lawer and ex cop Cerebus shows up on the scene. Are you and cerebus working together. What about Buddy, he was telling me to shut up this, shut up that and now it's strage that he has become sooooo interested in my account. You all sound so fishy. It's all just a ploy to get me isn't it.

My Agency????? I'm self employed as a lawyer, Just check this link http://www.jud2.state.ct.us/Civil_Inquiry/GetAtty.asp and plug in the name Samuel Browning or my juris number 417779 And I first appeared on this site in response to David Bannon, not you. Would you like a nice sworn affidavit that I and Cerebus are not co-workers and don't even know each other? You bring up an unbelevable story and then get paranoid when people call you on it.

I also never accused you of working with terrorists but if you will provide us with a release for your DS 214 we can confirm you were at least in Vietnam. I smell serious Bull@#$% in your account.

[Finny]

Mr. Browning, please don't waste your time on this loser. He's not 'getting paranoid' when people call him on his story, he's just doing what he can to string this discussion along.

His whole aim is to take the pis$. IMHO, doing so regarding the Vietnam war and discussing POW's, particularly at this time, is in EXTREMELY bad taste. But you're not worried about that are you now, Ego you d!ckhead.

I'd like to second Cerebus' idea. This fool needs to be banned, not only for this rubbish, but also for allowing Blooming Lotus to use his account after she was banned. Trolls working together.... there's something very scary about that.

C'mon Gene.... you know you wanna....

[cerebus]

STFU, you friggin' loser.

[BAI HE]

Eggo-
You won't be writing anything.
You won't ever do anything.
Are you proud of yourself?
Is this what you always wanted to be when you grew up?

A transfomers Nerd / Strip Mall Mantis clown?

Please kill yourself. It's the only answer and you'll feel better in Valhalla.

Happy Holidays,
Pete

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire


I'll be writing a book on Vietnam later next year. It would be titled something like - heroic deeds of a kung fu soldier. Until then end of discussion.:o

Until then end of fantasy. When you do publish I promise to give it a cover to cover reading and if your story doesn't hold up I will publically point out its inconsistancies. So please provide the proof in the book that you will not post here.

[cerebus]

Mr Browning, I seem to recall having read of recent instances of people who claimed to be war veterans/ heroes being prosecuted when it was discovered that they'd fabricated the whole thing. Would it be possible to report eggo to any law enforcement agaencies (FBI maybe?) so that he may be investigated for his claims?

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by cerebus
Mr Browning, I seem to recall having read of recent instances of people who claimed to be war veterans/ heroes being prosecuted when it was discovered that they'd fabricated the whole thing. Would it be possible to report eggo to any law enforcement agaencies (FBI maybe?) so that he may be investigated for his claims?

While I am not an expert in Federal law, there are two potential avenues of approach. If he is claiming particular military decorations he does not have, this may be a crime. However since he has not yet revealed his true name I doubt he could be prosecuted. Such actions are rarely brought, unless the proof is much clearer, like a picture of ego wearing a uniform with military decorations he was not entitled to. So he could falsely claim he was in delta force, but if he runs around wearing a silver star he never earned, he might be in trouble. However if he currently holds a federal or state job and lied on his CV there might be a law prohibiting that, especially if he claimed a veteran's preference he was not entitled to, but my guess is that it would have to be a government job for there to be any criminal penalties attached.

Secondly if he is falsely receiving veterans benefits for a combat related disorder when he never served in combat, such deception could lead to the revocation of his benefits and possible criminal charges. In that case it doesn't matter whether he tells the truth here, but it does matter whether he told the truth to the VA.

[cerebus]

Oh well, there are...... "other" ways of reaching him.;)

[Buddy]

Guess we'll have to find you ourselves.

[Samuel Browning]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Samuel Browning,

Rest assured, my book will be a comprehensive piece of reseach and I will welcome anyone who wishes to review. You're right, the forum is not the best medium to talk about this matters because time permitting, it is not possible to cover all the percieved holes. In addition to the actual accounts, i will be writing a semi-fictional book for mass consumption. The general population is not that interested in sitting though a heavy historical piece.

EE

Then I suggest to set yourself apart from others like Frank Dux you do the following.

1) Reprint your DS 214 form in full in the book's insert and provide a release in the book so that the skeptical like myself can obtain a copy of this record to confirm your story promptly.

2) Clearly identify all units you served with, and provide a chronology of when you served with them, and the full names of your commanding officers and sargents so your account can be confirmed.

3) Have nationally recognized authorities on SOG or which ever other special unit you were assigned to, confirm your service BEFORE you publish this book. In writing, and with contact information so their endorsement can be verified.

I would recommend to Gene that before his magazine prints ego's account that it let some people go over it with a fine tooth comb to ensure it is truthful.

Finally if you want to write fiction like Richard Marsinco, fine, but clearly identify it as such, i.e. it never happened. Describing a book as semi-fictional, for mass consumption is just a receipe for spreading untruths. Either make the book a truthful account or identify it as fiction, otherwise you just spread garbage.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by cerebus
I'm guessing that what needs to happen here is that everyone cancels their KF Magazine subscriptions and boycotts all products sold through the mag until eggo gets booted off the forum. I'll start with all my own friends & training partners and see how many I can get to follow up with me.

Sorry Cerebus, you are on your own on that one.

I just don't have the ability to find Ego important enough to stop buying the best KF magazine I have been able to find in order to boycott his presence on an affiliated online forum.

Besides which, his erroneous stories are humourous in a tall-tales sort of way.

[Broken Wing]

Originally posted by looking_up
Stop thinking "technique".

methinks it couldn't be better said

[Broken Wing]

Originally posted by Chinese Guy
Practice your skill until it becomes your naturalism.

I read an article in the "Inside Kung-Fu" article and that was what was said in a nutshell as in the other post i posted.
of course i now need to, er, uh, go practice, ahem ;)

[looking_up]

Practice your naturalism until it becomes a skill.