What defines a great teacher

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I have been reading some of the posts and it seems to me that many have missed the point of what makes a great teacher. They have instead bought into the hype of toughest equals best. I am afraid that I must disagree on this issue.

Wing Chun is a fighting art. This is very true. Some of the best fighters of all time did Wing Chun. However, the best fighters were not always the best choice for teaching others. This is not something restricted to the martial arts of China. Take for example the plight of the professional boxer. Would you argue that Mike Tyson, before his trouble and change of diet, ears and such ;), was a great fighter? Yet would he make the best choice for a teacher? Doubtful. Lets be honest, it is highly unlikely that Mike could not kill his trainer/teacher with relative ease. And yet, without the teachers guidance he would never have excelled in the sport of Boxing.

Turning back to our art, I believe that a great teacher should be able to apply his art effectively. But what does this mean? Does it mean that he applies Wing Chun in the manner for which it was designed and causes serious injury to his opponent? Is his skill at fighting a measure of his maturity and ethical integrety? Or is it possible, that as he matures he learns the inner qualities which define a great teacher? Perhaps even when he is beyond his fighting prime.

A truly great teacher has not only physical skill but the ability to communicate and transmit that skill to others. He is able to mold and shape a student enabling them to become not only proficient in their chosen art but a better human being as well.

Should a great teacher be able to fight and use his art? Undeniably YES. Does being a great fighter equal being a great teacher? Unfortunately NO!!! Ego and lack of maturity often cloud ones ability to pass on ones skills. Also a person may posess great technical skill yet be unable to explain the concepts which make that skill possible.

Who would you rather have train you? Cas D'amato(sp?) or Mike Tyson?

Peace,

Dave

[cobra]

I couldn't have put it better myself

Just my 4 cents!!

[chessGMwannabe]

I need to explain that to my brother in law. he thinks me a fool with low ambitions because I'm not absessed with trying to 'surpass' my sifu. I'm trying to get across to him that soul focus on learning to do good technique stronger and faster than my sifu can (good luck if you know my Sifu!), would be wasting a valuable resource. he doesn't get that. well put though Sihing73! :)

[kungfu cowboy]

Are you saying a good sifu should be able to kill Tyson?! ;)

[

[chessGMwannabe]

If Tyson's asleep and doesn't have any bodyguards around ;)

[weakstudent]

my question is this a good teacher has to be a good fighter. maybe not the other way around but if you are a good teacher of skill then you must be a good fighter with skills

cus had better skills than tyson thats why tyson got that good under cus, look at kevin rooney his boxing career wasn't that good so he had no real skill to pass to tyson thats why tyson stop listening. who does rooney train now? all rooney was doing was reinforcing what cus taught tyson
because both were trained by cus. what i'm trying to say is a bad fighter can never be a good teacher

nelson

[Anarcho]

Logically speaking, there's no reason for a good teacher to be good at anything but transmitting information. Someone could be the most hopeless fighter in the world, but if they effectively transmit information to their students that causes them to know, say, the Wing Chun system and how to apply it, then they're a good teacher.

[Sihing73]

Hello Weakstudent,

On what do you base your supposition about Cus having better skills than Tyson? Are you honestly under the impression that Cus could have beaten Tyson? I would ask you to explain why many of the best trainers out there are not always the best performers. Take a look at any Olympic sport and you will find that even Gold Medal athletes are trained by people who can not perform to their level. I would ask why this is so? This is found in baseball and other sports as well. It is a reare individual who can not only excel at his chosen event but train others to do so as well.

Remember the old saying, "Those who can do those who can't teach" There may be some truth to this. I would hope that a Wing Chun teacher has some skill at applying his art, but I still believe that teaching entails much more than fighting. Conversly a great fighter may not be the best choice for a teacher. Look to the students to see who transmits the knowledge.

Peace,

Dave

[aelward]

Very interesting thread!

In my opinion, I think the following attributes make for a good teacher:

1. Thorough understanding of the art
If you don't understand the very fundamentals of an style, what are you teaching?

2. Ability to articulate this to students
Even if you are good, can you pass that on to your students? Can you get them to exploit their innate potential and overcome their weaknesses?

3. Desire to constantly improve
In this way, the teacher is a model; if the students see that even the teacher is not at the pinnacle, then they will never grow complacent themselves.

4. Intelligence
Especially in Wing Chun, where so much is logical and analytical.

5. Courage to admit "I don't know."
Some instructors I have seen make up all kinds of answers when asked "what do you do about...", and say it with complete sincerity regardless. I think it is okay to say "within the framework of WC, it would make sense that..."

6. Respect for students

7. Experience
Whether it is real, extensive fighting experience, or lots and lots of sparring (though this is really no substitute).

8. Knowledges of other styles
The more you know about other styles and what to expect, the more you can adapt your curriculum to encompass different modes of attack. The beauty of Wing Chun is its adaptability, but knowing how to adapt comes from knowledge of other styles. I have seen instructors who came up with some anti-boxing techniques that my boxer friend said showed a complete ignorance of boxing.

9. Understanding of human anatomy and physiology.
The human body's motion is limited by structure, and knowing how it works and moves will help in explaining how Wing Chun work, and how other fighting arts might move.

Those are just a few ideas that come to mind...

[CLOUD ONE]

Great Teachers are the ones who say they are still students.

[dzu]

Is real fighting experience a pre-requisite to being an instructor or just a good instructor? I'm sure that anyone who has the desire to teach also wants to be the best teacher they can be. Does that mean those who want to teach someday should start fights or look for trouble or else forget about ever teaching? And if not, should they pack their bags and find another profession or else be doomed to knowing that they are NOT the best that they can be? What happens as our society evolves and less people have actual hand to hand fighting experience through the generations? Do we stop learning pre-industrial MA in favor of the more sport oriented MMA?

regards,

Dz

[WCFish]

I agree with aelward, but think that the understanding of anatomy and physiology should be as important as all the other points for all teachers. Joint range of motion is probably the most obvious reason. People with different ages, sizes, shapes etc. have different limitations yet many teachers teach a " one position suits all" type of wing chun.
As an example I would like to know how many wing chun instructors actually know why the sil lum tao training stance actually makes sense from an anatomical view point, not just the usual rhetoric about 'strenthening this and that' :)

[jameswebsteruk]

Why not enlighten us? :)
I know it works, but have been curious as to exactly why, the biomechanical explanation if you like.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[dave the dragon]

very good thread .

in my opinion a teacher is someone from who i can learn , either intentionaly or inadvertantly. for example, people that show me aggression or negativity in any way are my teachers aswell as people with something positive to offer me. Negative people give me a chance to develop my role of compassion and patience, whereas positive people inspire me to reinforce those positive qualities within myself.

In the example of mike tyson fighting technique yeah sure he would have a lot more combat skill than me.
he would also be able to teach me ,inadvertantly ,not how to treat women , not how to behave in a boxing ring.etc.which are just as important lessons.

in regards to martial arts trainer , they should not only be your teacher but your friend too. they should want you to become the best that you can be for personal reasons and not financial gain,they should be a person you can respect , someone to help you along your path whatever tat may be.

Dave.
:D :D :D

[benny]

a real teacher doesnt teach his ving tsun he is able to teach ving tsun. now every body has little things that we do that is not supposed to be there. i know we hate to admitt it but we have a saying that noone can do ving tsun as it is pefect and we are not we just try to imatate ving tsun to the best we can.
its like when you teach the forms your form will be slightly different so if all your students do that one thing then they show it to their students it just gets watered down. if you teach someone the idea of the perfect form then he will have it in his head. he knows how far his elbow goes out etc. so he can train himself.he can also teach the perfect form because he know what it is even thought he cant do it perfectly.
he can also teach not only for his size but for eveyone. short people use diffent tech in different situations and everyone does different thing wrong that needs different approaches to fix.

all in all a real teacher is someone who truely means, do what i say not what i do.

[aelward]

In addition to that list I put up earlier, I thought I'd add one thing that my Sifu told me, and that I truly believe: a good teacher makes his student better than himself.

[CLOUD ONE]

Please explain how can one person be better than the next?

[anerlich]

I think it's pretty obvious aelward meant a good teacher wants his student to become MORE SKILLED and ACHIEVE MORE in the art than he/she did.

Aelward gave the best answers IMHO, though I agree with most.

A good teacher also generates respect rather than demanding it, and generates a training environment that nurtures all students and encourages creativity and exploration.