Snake Turns Over

[bung bo]

i've done a search on this and found a description of the movement. it was a bit hard for me to understand. could somebody provide a more easily-understood description for me? thanks.

[IronFist]

I've heard two different ways to do it. It wasn't until I saw Sifu Allen demonstrate the last part of the movement on the fundamentals of empty hand fighting video that I understood it. He just happens to throw it out there. That video doesn't cover the set or anything, he's just like "...or snake turns over" and does the end motion of it.

[bung bo]

hey, thanks. i'm glad you understand it, but that wasn't what i was looking for. could you walk me through it? i've never seen that video, anyway.

[IronFist]

Tell me the way you've heard and I'll see if it sounds like what I've seen/heard.

[bung bo]

i read it on a thread called "neigung's workout routine" or something like that. you were on that one a lot, too. stand in a medium to low horse stance--start with your fists chambered up high, almost in your armpits--push your fists down to your waist--brings your fists up like a barbell curl--at the top of the curl, bring your arms up so your elbows are sticking out and your fists are by your ears--push out double palm strikes in front or each arm to the side--repeat.

[Ming Yue]

hey D.... :D

we do something similar with Sifu Melton.


use a deep horse with fists chambered high. with tension, slowly drive both fists down until your elbows are mostly straight and your fists are in front of your groin. exhale doing this and use all your strength as if you are pushing a lot of weight.

now soft. inhaling, roll arms over so backs of fists are toward your body (still at groin) and slowly curl at the elbows until fists are in front of face. fists are soft now, movement is fluid, when hands reach chin level, lift elbows out as you roll your hands so both palms are open, forward, and elbows are pointed to each side of you level with your sholders.

now exhale slowly and with great strength push both palms out in front of you. you should shake with the effort. once palms are fully extended (don't lock elbows however), softly retract to original chamber, inhaling.

rinse. repeat.
:)

[IronMonkey]

Does this move do anything? Sounds like you can't even attack with it, but then again, I dunno this, so please explain if there is something special about this, hehe.

[Ming Yue]

long and short of it is it generates energy.

[blooming lotus]

never heard of it or seen it, but have many similars.sounds like a defence move I see alot of here though, as in block variation.....

Ming : if this a qigong style branch, should you really be straining / exerting so much ??

[Ming Yue]

I don't do this particular exercise with any others and I use it as a kind of a chi-load as well as root visualization. it fires me up and focuses me beyond words.

even "hard" qigongs I do dont include this level of overt effort - this is why I use it alone, it's like packing a cannonball!

[blooming lotus]

fair enough.

I guess I do some similar isolated stuff myself, but if anyone does try to incorperate it, relax a lil ha .

[bung bo]

Ming--thanks.

Iron or anyone else who is familiar with stone warrior Please answer and don't just comment.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by bung bo
Ming--thanks.

Iron or anyone else who is familiar with stone warrior Please answer and don't just comment.

Whoa, getting demandy there :)

Anyway, I have some experience with Stone Warrior but I don't think it's as awesome as they would have you believe. Dynamic tension has it's place but it's not complete when it comes to strength training.


stand in a medium to low horse stance--start with your fists chambered up high, almost in your armpits--push your fists down to your waist--brings your fists up like a barbell curl--at the top of the curl, bring your arms up so your elbows are sticking out and your fists are by your ears--push out double palm strikes in front or each arm to the side--repeat.

Here's how I think it's done. Keep in mind the only part I've ever actually seen was Sifu Allen demonstrating from the palm strike to the end.

Horse stance with fists at your waist. We'll do the right arm in this example. Curl it up til it's at should height like you're doing a barbell curl. As you curl it up, your elbow moves a little bit forward until it's even with your side (since it was behind you when your fists were at your waist). Ok so now your fist is facing the ceiling. Curl your wrist toward you so your fist is pointing at your shoulder (it won't be exactly pointing at your shoulder but you should curl your wrist in as far as you can). Now keeping your wrist curled, rotate it inward so it's facing the wall on your left. Rotate it further til it's facing in front of you. Through this whole rotation your forearm has stayed in the same vertical position. So your fist has pretty much rotated 180 degrees at this point and you should be feeling it in your forearm muscles. Now that your fist is facing forward, open it into a spear hand with your fingers facing forward. Extend your arm and as it's going pull your hand back so that you end in a palm strike. It's not a palm strike the whole way. It transitions smoothly from a snake hand at the beginning to a palm strike at the end so that about half way out you're between a snake hand and a palm strike (your fingers should be pointing 45 degrees up and away from you. Ok so you've just done the palm strike. Now comes the part that's hard to describe but easy to show. Leaving your hand open, rotate it forward and down and a little bit clockwise (counterclockwise when you do your left hand) until your palm is facing you and your fingers are pointing at the left wall. From this point keep rotating your hand until your fingers are about point at the ceiling. At this point, make a fist (it should be an upside down fist since your fingers were pointing up at the time) and pull it back down to your waist. The final rotation after the palm strike should be very tight in your forearms. Make sure you're pulling your palm as close toward you as you can. I wish I could post a video clip of me doing it because it's so easy to show Ok, so all the rotating should be smooth movements. It should look like a snake turning it's head over, hence the name. I just described it in steps here to make it easier, but the real thing flows smoothly. Repeat on the other side (reverse all "lefts" and "rights."

So yeah, from the snakehand/palm strike to the end is the part I saw Sifu Allen demonstrate on the "Fundamentals of Empty Hand Fighting" video. The part before that I just gathered from listening to a few different people tell me how they did it. It seems there are a few variations.

I guess if you want to be hard core, inhale as you move toward your body, and exhale as you move away from your body. Don't quote me on that, tho, but that's generally the way to breathe to make something internal. But whatever you do, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!

I think you're supposed to start at 10 per side and then add one rep per day until you get to 100.

I'd say that time could be better spent lifting weights, but that's just me. :D

[bung bo]

thank you very much, ironman. i believe my time would better be spent lifting weights, too, but i've got an injury that is preventing me from it. since it happened, i'd started reading more on other strength training methods and asking a specific question and getting a good answer (which you can get on here from the right people) is easier than piecing together a bunch of info. i want to say that i am not saying that doing research to expand your knowledge isn't worth it because it takes too long. again, thanks for the detailed description.

[IronFist]

What injury did you get?

[bung bo]

i was thrown and landed on my right wrist real hard. sprained and strained. it has been going on for a while and has made me see the HUGE importance of resting an injury in its early stage.

[Oso]

yo, D...want to work on falls next time I'm in town?



What MY is describing is the first movement in the hard chi kung set I was taught as 18 Lohan. NOT the 18 Lohan that I've seen around a lot here...basically it is just a dynamic tension set that someone in my old sifu's history labeled '18 Lohan'.

anyway, having done dynamic tension stuff in Hung Gar, I do like it as a dynamic tension set.

and, dynamic tension is a good part of a well rounded physical regimin but isn't the end all, be all...as IF points out.

[bung bo]

thanks, matt. i'll take you up on that.

tainan mantis taught some of 18 lohan. the stuff was all dynamic tension. i think that body hardening excersise master shr showed us is part of the same set, but i'm not sure.

[Oso]

mine has names like 'pushing the mountian', 'drawing the bow', parting the sea etc.

i'll bring mats with me on the next trip.

or come with jim when he comes over next. he had asked me about going over some ground stuff.