View Full Version : Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
yellowpikachu
09-27-2004, 08:48 PM
Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim? That's not the whole story though. From what I've read on these forums, some lineages have a Siu Lien Tau set, where 'lien' means training, not 'thought'. So the pronunication of 'thought' as Nim or Lim is an issue that does not apply.
Whether the actual content of the SNT or SLT sets is substantively different is another question I am not qualified to answer.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound.
Matters become more confused when one or the other Romanization is used in an attempt to denotate a different set (Little First Training??). As I have heard, the sound is similar for both phrases, though the representative characters differ.
Regards,
- kj
t_niehoff
09-28-2004, 06:02 AM
Hendrik,
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours. No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no "logic", etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not. That can only be determined by examining the *results* that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence
Vajramusti
09-28-2004, 07:24 AM
KJ sez:
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound
---------------------------------------------------------------
Thus I have heard too-KJ.
Lots of different intonations varying with region and class.
((Generally for me)- down with the literati and snobbery.
The literati sold the rebels out in the pacification of the south(Chima)
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by t_niehoff
Hendrik,
1, Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
2, No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no "logic", etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not.
That can only be determined by examining the *results* that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence
1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal "mind reading" about others based one's own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
duende
09-28-2004, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal "mind reading" about others based one's own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Obviously you've just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn't be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don't want your "mind read", then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
1. Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers... all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
2. Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn't have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow.
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by duende
Obviously you've just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn't be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don't want your "mind read", then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
1. Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers... all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
2. Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn't have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow.
isnt it amazing that one thought such as
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
based on one's "thinker's thought pattern" give raise to the post above?
what can we learn from this?
exactly as what the tolle said in his book power of Now or the Zen's teaching.
When one mistaken the Thinker as oneself and take one's speculating Thoughts as reality representing others, one then lives in one's thought which has little todo with what in reality.
when mind move, thought is constructed. suffering starts if un aware of...
Thus one needs Siu Niem Tau or the little training to AWARE the mind has moved. So one doesnt keep thinking and take what one think is real, but can aware of one's thinking is just a thought what one think, not more and not less.
Originally posted by kj
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound.I think I've posted this before, but I'll do so once more.
The initial 'N' in 'Nim' is the 'original' Cantonese sound. However, there has been a linguistic trend which people call 'lazy sounds' where this initial 'N' is replaced by an 'L'.
Other occurences include:
Nam/Lam - South (Nam Kuen = Southern Fist)
Nam/Lam - Male
Noi/Loi - Female
Neen/Leen - Year
(NOTE: Not very proper romanisation)
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I'm not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
From personal observation, HK villagers still tend to use the initial 'N', as well as overseas Chinese who emigrated before the 80-90's. However, due to the ready availability of HK entertainment media in the overseas Chinese communities, more and more people are using the initial 'L'.
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 09:41 AM
CFT,
GREAT post!
Keep up the great job!
Vajramusti
09-28-2004, 11:12 AM
Thanks CFT- for the devlopment of the lazy sound etc and the
n-l variance.
Interestngly in the evolution of the language of the Dakotas(Sioux)-they do not have an alphabetical written language you have the variations of "D", "N" and "L"...dakota, nakota, lakota...
with variations getting localised.
To: native southern chinese speakers--- aren't their variations in pronounciatins of the same word in foshanese, toishanese, hakka etc.
Tom may know- didnt Moy Yat speak more witha Toishanese accent? Different from Ip Man etc?
No hidden agenda- a real query!
Slight differences in pronounciation even with the same written language often is an indicator of location, geography, community and sometimes of class/status
Nice elaboration, CFT.
Originally posted by CFT
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I'm not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
I wasn't implying that, and apologize if it appeared so. It was more an observation on trends and tendencies in use. The description of literati from a literati friend of mine with a special penchant for language and dialect. He himself adheres to the former and more formal "N" sound, and does not hesitate to correct me when I use the more common "L" sound or spelling. ;)
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
"SIL NIM TAO"
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn't know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
Da_Moose
09-28-2004, 06:16 PM
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Funny, I thought his dogma was about:
1. bring up technical questions and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.
2. Gets frustrated by repeated requests to post on his own threads, to guide them, or to add to them.
3. Claim everyone is attacking him due to his lack of #2.
4. State he's leaving the forum for good due to the hostility here.
5. Leave the forum for a week, then realize he can't be complete without being online and participating in this forum, then resurrect himself under a new identity.
Steps 1-5 seem to be repeated every 6 months or so.
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Rhat
"SIL NIM TAO"
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn't know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
You are welcome to start a new topic on
---- Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
so that others will discuss. Why Not? Pikachu's is very open minded.
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Da_Moose
Funny, I thought his dogma was about:
1. bring up technical questions and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.
2. Gets frustrated by repeated requests to post on his own threads, to guide them, or to add to them.
3. Claim everyone is attacking him due to his lack of #2.
4. State he's leaving the forum for good due to the hostility here.
5. Leave the forum for a week, then realize he can't be complete without being online and participating in this forum, then resurrect himself under a new identity.
Steps 1-5 seem to be repeated every 6 months or so.
Great summarization of your Thoughts!
canglong
09-28-2004, 06:55 PM
originally posted by Terence
If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.Terence feel free to show off your superior methods and knowledge in a K-1 any time.
originally posted by hendik
Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set? another example indicating that just because you have read something doesn't necessarily mean you understand the material.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
You are welcome to start a new topic on
---- Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
so that others will discuss. Why Not? Pikachu's is very open minded.
"Pikachu's is very open minded"???
"...and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so."
Something to think about.....:cool:
yellowpikachu
09-28-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Rhat
"Pikachu's is very open minded"???
"...and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so."
Something to think about.....:cool:
you love to think, and think about others thoughts. Why not keep thinking.
as a friendly reminder,
you might want to start a new topic about your thinking and thoughts....etc instead of post them here , since your post is off topic.
Katsu Jin Ken
09-28-2004, 10:20 PM
it would be so much simplier if they were written in kanji.
i think they are the same kanji so, technically, they mean the samething. The Little Idea
now, Little fist training thats mandarin, its called Xiao Lian Tou in Peng style WC, Chum kiu is the same, Bil gee is called Biao Zhi. Personally, i think its all in the spelling.
Sil lum is also used to mean shaolin (young forrest, i see the connection from Ng Mei being from a shaolin temple)
honestly, its hard to tell without kanji.
todi laugin
09-29-2004, 03:58 AM
Sil Lien Tao is what is taught to you when you first start the learning process of wing chun. SIL Nim Tao is what you will know after a long period of study of wing chun. They are the same form but with greater understanding of the form.
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 06:55 AM
Canglong wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
originally posted by Terence
If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terence feel free to show off your superior methods and knowledge in a K-1 any time.
**You seem confused -- I'm not the one making any claims of "lineage" superiority or to having "superior" training methods (unique to my lineage). One doesn't need any skill or knowledge of WCK to point out that all fighters regardless of style or lineage or method basically follow the same training model. Nor to point out that no one following a different model has ever stepped forward and proved their training made them a good fighter (oh, but we have stories!). It doesn't take a "master of gung fu" to realize that the usefulness of any drill or "concept" or "theory" is in the results it produces. If it produces results that matter, i.e., increasing our performance level in fighting, then we should be able to see those results. Fighters regardless of lineage or style or method focus on results, on increasing their fighting performance; theoreticians and dogmatists regardless of lineage or style or method focus on strictly adhering to theory and dogma.
Regards,
Terence
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 07:09 AM
Hendrik wrote:
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
**Technical questions are fine and dandy but any "technical question" can only be evaluated in terms of the results it produces. "View and reasons" are empty and meaningless without reference to results. We can all discuss how we *think* or *believe* our various dry-land exercises or theories will help us be better swimmers but the only way to really evaluate those exercises is by getting in the pool and seeing the results. That's the only way to "find out what happen."
Regards,
Terence
canglong
09-29-2004, 08:32 AM
originally posted by Terence
**You seem confused -- I'm not the one making any claims of "lineage" superiority or to having "superior" training methods (unique to my lineage). Terence you advocate K-1 for everyone but yourself, oh ok. It is your focus that is misguided and off track your concerns regarding the practice and claims of others leaves little time for self reflection choose one or the other but not both.
canglong
09-29-2004, 08:39 AM
--hendrik
1, bring up technical questions,
What does lineage means? Actually you just keep going in circles.
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 09:04 AM
canglong wrote:
Terence you advocate K-1 for everyone but yourself, oh ok. It is your focus that is misguided and off track your concerns regarding the practice and claims of others leaves little time for self reflection choose one or the other but not both.
**Focusing on results (we're not doing exercises for the sake of the exercise after all but what we can get from the exercise) and competing in K-1 events is not the same thing (not all boxers turn pro, not all BJJers compete in tournaments, etc., but they all focus on performance). As I'm interested in obtaining results (increasing my fighting performance level), I'm open to the training methods of others *if* they produce results. However, theories on how this or that should produce results, stories about how this or that has produced results in our ancestors, etc. are not convincing -- all I'm suggesting is that if folks want to discuss training methods we start from the standpoint of "has this method produced proven (so we can see for ourselves) results?" If not, then to label the training method as "superior" or even "effective" is meaningless.
Regards,
Terence
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by t_niehoff
**Technical questions are fine and dandy but any "technical question" can only be evaluated in terms of the results it produces.
"View and reasons" are empty and meaningless without reference to results.
We can all discuss how we *think* or *believe* our various dry-land exercises or theories will help us be better swimmers but the only way to really evaluate those exercises is by getting in the pool and seeing the results. That's the only way to "find out what happen."
Regards,
Terence
Result orientated certainly has some truth in it, But this is a modern thinking for the Chinese.
The old Chinese who is related/influence by Buddhism /Daoist are very process orientated. This is where the ---mindfullness, the concentration and insight, stay in the trajectory (instead of fix goal but trajectory direction)..ect-- comes in. One can see such thing today even from the Japanese Tea ceremony or the Chinese ritual.
According to the ancient Chinese, SLT or SNT is a tool to investigate or to discover the essence of the truth.
They are NOT the truth itself.
Thus, the discussion about SLT or SNT is about the discussion of the Tool.
Being able to use a hammer skillfully to take down a wall for remodeling the home is one thing.
Being able to differentiate between a hammer and a saw and what is thier characteristics and capability is another thing.
Being able to know, Mcdonarld Burger and Burger King's Burger are the similar type of fast food with some variation and different brand is another thing.
If Wing Chun Kuen was designed and created in the Result orientated (atleast every one loves to claim Result orientated these days) then examine it based on result orientated is a great way.
However, tons of people in the Valley buy the PDA or Cellphone which might be influence by the advertisement of "you will get more things done" on the Bill Board beside the high way 880 doesnt seem to be deliver the result of get more things done.
That is because the PDA or CELLphone are just tool. The person who is using it is a big factor of whether it produces the result -- getting more things done. Advertisment is just an oversimplified not telling the full story slogan.
This topic on SLT and SNT is analogus to
PDA1 and PDA2,
or PDA and Cellphone
or PDA and notebook........
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by canglong
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1, bring up technical questions,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What does lineage means?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually you just keep going in circles.
Mcdonarld and buger king both sell Burger.
They use some similar and some different technics to produce thier Burger.
One needs to know is it Mcdonald or Burger King --- Lineage
One needs to know what kind of burger making technics similarity or different ----- technical.
Are they going in circles?
On the other hand,
if one carrying a 3com and a Sony PDA for thier TO DO LIST in the same time then that can be very very very likely to be duplicating.
Because disregards of brand name different, they use the same Operating System.
But then, of corse people still can argue that they carry two PDA around is that the Sony CLie has a capability to take picture. Where 3com doesnt have the build in picture taken function.
and same with Cell phone. some carry two cellphones in the sametime.
So? fasion, Localized Evolution,..... style... anything is valid.
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 10:44 AM
Hendrik wrote:
Result orientated certainly has some truth in it, But this is a modern thinking for the Chinese.
**There are different modes or ways of "thinking", just as there are different modes or ways of problem solving -- not all are appropriate or even effective for all things. When our concern is enhancing performance, being result-oriented is the most effective approach. If our concern is preserving a folk dance, then being result-oriented in not the most effective approach.
The old Chinese who is related/influence by Buddhism /Daoist are very process orientated. This is where the ---mindfullness, the concentration and insight, stay in the trajectory (instead of fix goal but trajectory direction)..ect-- comes in. One can see such thing today even from the Japanese Tea ceremony or the Chinese ritual.
**Exactly -- this is a fine approach for ceremony or rituals not for enhancing performance.
According to the ancient Chinese, SLT or SNT is a tool to investigate or to discover the essence of the truth.
They are NOT the truth itself.
**"According to ancient Chinese" leads us nowhere (they were wrong about a great many things!) unless we can verify for ourselves those conclusions. The "truth" of fighting is found in fighting not in linked sets.
Thus, the discussion about SLT or SNT is about the discussion of the Tool.
**The tool is only useful if it helps us to do a job; the merits of a tool is in how well (efficient and effective) it is in doing (performing) its job. You can't separate the tool from the job.
Being able to use a hammer skillfully to take down a wall for remodeling the home is one thing. Being able to differentiate between a hammer and a saw and what is thier characteristics and capability is another thing.
**Agreed. But understanding the "characteristics and capability" doesn't come from theory or dogma -- it comes from using the tools, seeing for yourself how they work, etc.
Regards,
Terence
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by t_niehoff
1, **There are different modes or ways of "thinking", just as there are different modes or ways of problem solving -- not all are appropriate or even effective for all things. When our concern is enhancing performance, being result-oriented is the most effective approach. If our concern is preserving a folk dance, then being result-oriented in not the most effective approach.
2, **Exactly -- this is a fine approach for ceremony or rituals not for enhancing performance.
3, **"According to ancient Chinese" leads us nowhere (they were wrong about a great many things!) unless we can verify for ourselves those conclusions. The "truth" of fighting is found in fighting not in linked sets.
4,**Agreed. But understanding the "characteristics and capability" doesn't come from theory or dogma -- it comes from using the tools, seeing for yourself how they work, etc.
1, there are thinkings, and there are beyond thinking. Thinking is not all of the story.
2. there are thinking, intending, and volition. and there is practiced to living in NOW which is beyond thinking, intending, and volition. To be living in Now is to be clear with every instant of the process.
3, Everyone is Free to Give up SNT or SLT and Wing Chun Kuen at any time and any place. if one believe the ancient Chinese leads one no where. And, since it is not up to one to define SNT and SLT or Wing Chun Kuen, because they are very Chinese and ancient.
4, not be able to open up, embracing different faces of reality; and having the capability to differentiate what is Thinking, what is living in awareness in every instant in a process; but speculating and deriving the reality based on one's thinking and believing /result then enforce that is the only correct path is the biggest theory and Dogma.
how can one know about SNT or SLT if one doesnt know about what the Chinese teaching system is all about? How can one knows how things work, if one doesnt have the capability to living in every instant with awareness instead of thinking?
How can one knows all of the above, if one think the Ancient Chinese is wrong and not worthed to even take an open mind look?
Anyway, this topic is simply about is it a need of a SLT and SNT set. The rest is off topic.
But, different view is embraced because embracing itself is living in Now without resisting what exist in the reality.
BTW, lots of today's depression or stress or anger or agression....
comes from RESULT Orientated Productivity pattern.
Human is not machine. Result doesnt not means it is meaningfull for everyone. highly Productivity can be a sign of greed where human is not alow to live in every instant but pushing to the edge to produce where the lifeforce/creativity of human is rape and force to act like a machine.
And, when the human doesnt have the fulfillment of accomplishment but OBEY the TRUTH to product RESULT faster and faster. Then, some turn depress because their body/mind is tired. Some turn into anger and agression because it reflexed dis-satisfaction on the way how they were threat to be machine.
How sad is a world like this? and ofcorse this is off topic.
But, instead of focusing in result but process might be able to help. one to live a fuller live and perform better.
if SLT is the path to produce Result, productivity, fighting to win will all cost. Then, I am the first to quit.
As I have heard, Siu Niem Tau means cut down the amount of ideas to very few to be able to aware to live in NOW and let the magic of liveforce "baptised" one's body and mind with the wisdom of the nature.
result vesus meaning full.
productivity vesus creativity.
Machine like vesus art.
free choice in a free world. and I alway aware of I live and work in the silicon valley where RESULT Orientated and Productivity are the Tradition. Nothing wrong with it .
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 12:11 PM
Hendrik wrote:
1, there are thinkings, and there are beyond thinking. Thinking is not all of the story.
2. there are thinking, intending, and volition. and there is practiced to living in NOW which is beyond thinking, intending, and volition. To be living in Now is to be clear with every instant of the process.
**I don't know about "living in the Now" -- for me, WCK isn't a metaphysical discipline, it is a kuen faat (fighting method). As a fighting method, its objective is to help us become better fighters, i.e., increase our performance level in fighting. So it seems to me that any examination or discussion of training methods should begin with results, not with whether or not they comport to Taoist or Buddhist teachings. If those teachings produce results, then we should be able to see them. If they don't produce results, why are we doing them?
3, Everyone is Free to Give up SNT or SLT and Wing Chun Kuen at any time and any place. if one believe the ancient Chinese leads one no where. And, since it is not up to one to define SNT and SLT or Wing Chun Kuen, because they are very Chinese and ancient.
**It's not a case of giving up WCK but of not adhering to tradition for traditions sake -- if the tradition is useful (productive) we keep it as it produces results; if it is not useful, we discard it. This is how any martial art continues to grow, evolve, and be viable; that's what makes an art alive. To retain nonproductive practices for the sake of tradition *if one's concern is enhancing performance* is counterproductive.
4, not be able to open up, embracing different faces of reality; and having the capability to differentiate what is Thinking, what is living in awareness in every instant in a process; but speculating and deriving the reality based on one's thinking and believing /result then enforce that is the only correct path is the biggest theory and Dogma.
**I'll be happy to "embrace different faces of reality" *if* you can demonstrate the reality of it! I don't want to embrace different faces of theory or dogma; that's a waste of time. Fighting is the reality. Increasing your performance is the reality. You can see abd measure the reality of these. Talking about these things without being able to show that they can and will produce results is not focusing on reality, it is all speculation, theory, dogma.
how can one know about SNT or SLT if one doesnt know about what the Chinese teaching system is all about? How can one knows how things work, if one doesnt have the capability to living in every instant with awareness instead of thinking?
How can one knows all of the above, if one think the Ancient Chinese is wrong and not worthed to even take an open mind look?
**Does it work? Does it produce results I can see, can evalute, can test? It's very simple.
Anyway, this topic is simply about is it a need of a SLT and SNT set. The rest is off topic.
**No, it's not off topic -- it's directly on topic. The answer to your question is: does it produce results? And that's the answer to most of your "technical" questions. To say "let's not talk about results or whether or not these things make you a better fighter, let's talk about how we should do X according to how my lineage or my ancestor or my Taoist view says we should do it" gets us nowhere as someone else will point out that his ancestor or lineage or "philosophy" is different. There are numerous theoretical POVs. How do we evaluate whether or not any of them have a basis in reality? By results. When we throw out the focus on results, we're left with a dogmatic quagmire.
But, instead of focusing in result but process might be able to help. one to live a fuller live and perform better. if SLT is the path to produce Result, productivity, fighting to win will all cost. Then, I am the first to quit.
**No problem with focusing on the process -- if the process produces result (why focus on a process that doesn't produce results?).
As I have heard, Siu Niem Tau means cut down the amount of ideas to very few to be able to aware to live in NOW and let the magic of liveforce "baptised" one's body and mind with the wisdom of the nature.
**Many people hear a great many things . . . and I'm not going to argue that you're wrong. But as they say, theory is great but can you do it?
result vesus meaning full.
productivity vesus creativity.
Machine like vesus art.
**You will not ponder those questions when someone is trying to whack your head off, or when you come back to consciousness after having your head whacked off. ;) Then you'll be concerned with whether or not your training worked.
free choice in a free world. and I alway aware of I live and work in the silicon valley where RESULT Orientated and Productivity are the Tradition. Nothing wrong with it .
**If results are what you are after, you must focus on results and productivity. If they are not what you are after, then you can focus on all kinds of things.
Regards,
Terence
PaulH
09-29-2004, 12:41 PM
From a historical perspective, It seems that old WC had a lot of metaphysical layers in their terminology and training methods. Modern man on the other hand prefers to do without. It's a wonderful life. "Mary, you want the moon. I'll give you the moon..." =)
t_niehoff
09-29-2004, 01:38 PM
PaulH wrote:
From a historical perspective, It seems that old WC had a lot of metaphysical layers in their terminology and training methods. Modern man on the other hand prefers to do without. It's a wonderful life. "Mary, you want the moon. I'll give you the moon..." =)
**Sure, throughout history men have fashioned all kinds of "mysterious theories" -- metaphysical, divine, naturalistic, animalistic, etc. -- to explain things that they either didn't understand (fully) or that they had difficulty explaining. For some today, the allure of the "mystery" (ancient chinese secret) remains. But those that are interested in results will focus on results; those that aren't, won't.
Regards,
Terence
PaulH
09-29-2004, 02:03 PM
As metaphysical study deals chiefly with meaning or truth, Terence, I think, you too ironically are one of its modern prophets... What is truth? So far I see you pointing the fingers to alive combat. =)
I've heard it said that there are only 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. :)
Regards,
- kj
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
how can one know about SNT or SLT if one doesnt know about what the Chinese teaching system is all about?
Maybe if you tell us how you define "what the Chinese teaching system is all about?"
Then that may clear things up a bit instead of talking in circles.:confused:
YongChun
09-29-2004, 03:35 PM
Matt Thornton has a good little video talk about realistic training on the link about new videos on the Danish site www.martialarts.dk.
In Physics we have the same kinds of talks that have gone around in circles for the past few decades namely experimentalists who go out and do experiments and claim they are responsible for the production of new theories and then there are the theoreticians who claim they drive the experiments are responsible for the discoveries. The theoretician's say that the experimentalists merely verify or falsify the theories. The Experimentalists say they are the one's to discover stuff and whatever they discover, the theoretician's can concoct a quick theory to explain it.
An experimentalist shows a graph to a theorist, and the theorist says ‘Ah, yes this is because...., and I have the math to prove it.
The experimentalist says 'Wait a minute, I had the graph upside down. Then the Theorist says 'Yah, OK, that makes sense, my theory shows..., and I have the math to prove it.
In fighting both the theoretician and the experimentalist can come up with the same theories. The experimentalist knows how to fight and the theoretical guy can't actually fight but may be able to train someone to fight. The theoretician argues that if you stop a roundhouse kick with a Gan sau then your arms will be broken. The reality experimentalist agrees because he had his arms broken when applying a Gan sau to a roundhouse kick.
Tom Kagan
09-29-2004, 04:09 PM
To: native southern chinese speakers--- aren't their variations in pronounciatins of the same word in foshanese, toishanese, hakka etc.
Tom may know- didnt Moy Yat speak more witha Toishanese accent? Different from Ip Man etc?
No hidden agenda- a real query!
Though he was just a "country bumpkin from ToiSan", Moy Yat's accent was Hong Kong because he made a conscious decision that was the way he would train to speak when he moved there. He didn't want his speaking manner to be an impediment to employment. As stories go, even though Yip Man was from the large city FatSan - which had a lot of trade with Hong Kong - he had more of an "accent" in Hong Kong than Moy Yat.
The argument over n/l (and the like) is kind of amusing. A native speaker of any language doesn't hear the distinctions in their own language when there is no distinction to make. Ultimately, for a Cantonese speaker to hear a different word in SLT/SNT is no different than anyone trying to understand a drunk. The context might change the meaning a word, but rarely does the pronouniciation. A lot of times it's just used to poke fun at someone because they "talk funny."
CFT is, in my humble opinion, 100% correct regarding Cantonese.
"Pahk the cah in Havid Yahd" - Boston
"Fugeduhboudit" - New York
"A li'le bi' of breab wiv a bi' of bu'er on i'." - C@ckney
"You like potato and I like potahto,
You like tomato and I like tomahto;
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!
Let's call the whole thing off!" -- Cole Porter
anerlich
09-29-2004, 04:30 PM
I've heard it said that there are only 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
I've heard there are three; those who can count and those that can't.
And I've heard that there are two: those that think there are two kinds of people and those who don't.
Three kinds of people:
1) where there are questions, there are answers
2) where there are questions, there are no answers
3) keep on talking in circles
anerlich
09-29-2004, 04:42 PM
The reality experimentalist agrees because he had his arms broken when applying a Gan sau to a roundhouse kick.
I agree with the thrust of your post, but I also think a good experimentalist can learn from OTHER people's mistakes, rather than making them ALL him/herself.
YongChun
09-29-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by anerlich
I agree with the thrust of your post, but I also think a good experimentalist can learn from OTHER people's mistakes, rather than making them ALL him/herself.
I agree with that too. Ray
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by t_niehoff
**You will not ponder those questions when someone is trying to whack your head off, or when you come back to consciousness after having your head whacked off. ;) Then you'll be concerned with whether or not your training worked.
The first patriach of Zen in China, Boddhidrama or Damo of Shao Lin was poison 6 times. The first 5 times, he avoid it.
At the six time, he took the poison, got poison and died. those who wanted to kill him was taken by suprised why with Damo's kungfu he purposely not avoiding to die.
The second patriach of Zen in China, after passed his Zen mind seal to the third generation went and paid back his killing Karma. He died being beheaded by the emperor 's order who thought he was an evil man. After the second patriach executed, the emperor find out what happen and regret.
The six patriach of Zen, Hui Neng was in a hit list to be killed by some people who was jealous about him. So, the hit man arrive and Hui Neng stick his neck out in his bed room asking the hit man to cut it off. The hit man was moved and trying to escape. However, Hui Neng told the hit man, that He owe a few gold coins to hit man in the past life, but not owing life. thus, he give the hit man the amount of the gold coins and send the hitman out safely.
Late Ven Hsu Yun the zen patriach was hang and beaten with iron bar into unconcious and torture for days at the age of over 100 year old by the communist bandits. After days, he didnt die and the communist was suprised and leave him alone. He didnt have a slight of hatret after his recovery.
There was An incident about the Zen patriach, late Ven Hsuan Hua in California. A person comes to see him and claiming he had attain enlightenment or Satori. LAte Ven Hsuan Hua went to the kitchen and took a butcher knife and asking for that person to give him his head. That person run away while Ven Hsuan Hua was saying. the Zen patriach has no fear even his head got cut off.
as it was said in
The Song of Enlightenment
By Great Master Yung Chia of The T'ang Dynasty
WALKING IS ZEN; SITTING IS ALSO ZEN,
IN SPEECH OR SILENCE, IN MOVEMENT OR STILLNESS, MY
SUBSTANCE IS AT PEACE.
EVEN IF I MEET WITH A KNIFE'S POINT, I AM ALWAYS COMPLETELY TRANQUIL.
IF I AM GIVEN A POESONOUS DRUG, I AM STILL TOTALLY AT EASE.
OUR MASTER MET BURNING-LAMP BUDDHA AFTER MANY AEONS AS
A PATIENT IMMORTAL.
Those were the teaching of ZEN source from Shao Lin's DAMO.
Who walked his talked. Perhaps there is more important thing in life beyond --- to win, to fight, to be the number one, to revenge, to over thrown the Qing.
perhaps all the ZEn people with Mind Seal from the Buddha were Nuts. starting from DAMO of Shao Lin.
Back to that little ideas set. May be just may be when one has less and less amount of ideas or thoughts while doing the set one be able to aware of more and more details about the set. All is within the process.
anerlich
09-29-2004, 08:00 PM
That person run away while Ven Hsuan Hua was saying. the Zen patriach has no fear even his head got cut of.
I detect a morbid obsession with beheading amongst the Zen Patriarchs.
Perhaps they could go to Iraq and allow the fanatics to take them hostage. Give the hapless unenlightened Americans and Poms there a break.
Having no fear of beheading or death is a sign of idiocy, not enlightenment.
By Great Master Yung Chia of The T'ang Dynasty
Demonstrably, it can be argued, a dangerous fool.
If you meet the Buddha on the road, behead him!
anerlich
09-29-2004, 08:14 PM
If anyone *else* is offended, I shall remove it.
It's not a good idea to quote something you want others to remove, BTW.
However, I think provides the perfect illustration of the shallow nature of your post that preceded it.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
perhaps all the ZEn people with Mind Seal from the Buddha were Nuts. starting from DAMO of Shao Lin.
When one admires the Buddha it is important not to know Hendrik/yellowpikachu personally.
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by anerlich
However, I think provides the perfect illustration of the shallow nature of your post that preceded it.
The Zen patriach cultivate themself to be able to sacrify thier life for peace and transcent others to do good .
The Buddha himself feed the dying eagle in hunger with his own flesh when there was no food found.
Your "pefrect illustration" is inconsiderately for others and unneccessary. There is no need to evoke human's pain, sadness, and unfortunate incident to illustrate your point about the Zen patriach is shallow because the Zen patriach love peace more then thier body and life.
I am here to discuss Wing Chun, Shao Lin and its tradition.
My urge for you to delete that sad inconsiderate and unneccesary part of your post is trying to urge you to consider about others while you make your point.
However, your reply shows your self-righteous justification which I dont think there is anything to discuss further about your way of making points.
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Rhat
When one admires the Buddha it is important not to know Hendrik/yellowpikachu personally.
Great advise.
The buddhism I believe in is about no killing and the Buddha / patriach including Boddhi -Damo of Shao Lin, sacrified themself to help others and for peace.
That is certainly nuts for some such as those believing the Shao Lin monks design advance martial art to kill the Qing.
canglong
09-29-2004, 10:26 PM
originally posted by yellowharinghendrik
My urge for you to delete that sad part is trying to urge you to consider about others while you make your point. However, your reply shows your self-righteous justification which I dont think there is anything we need to discuss further. You can not be serious you live in a glass house do nothing but throw stones all day and night and sleep walk on broken glass and have the audacity to complain that your feet hurt. You suffer the consequences of your own actions.
anerlich
09-29-2004, 10:33 PM
However, your reply shows your self-righteous justification which I dont think there is anything to discuss further about your way of making points.
Your reply shows a feeble attempt at emotional blackmail. and most of your own posts are little other than self-righteous justification.
As I said before, if anyone else complains, I shall remove the reference.
LAte Ven Hsuan Hua went to the kitchen and took a butcher knife and asking for that person to give him his head.
The Zen patriach cultivate themself to be able to sacrify thier life for peace and transcent others to do good
These two assertions don't add up.
I have a real hatred for anyone, Zen Patriarch or otherwise, that diminishes life by suggesting that giving it away or treating it as unimportant is somehow intelligent or noble. Similar arguments are used by those that rasie the suicide bombers.
It's just plain STUPID.
If modern reality is unpalatable to you, that's your problem.
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by canglong
You can not be serious you live in a glass house do nothing but throw stones all day and night and sleep walk on broken glass and have the audacity to complain that your feet hurt. You suffer the consequences of your own actions.
if to be considerate for others is a wrong doing,
if to tell the truth about the teaching of Shao Lin Da Mo on loving peace and his sacrified is a wrong doing,
I accept my karma with open heart.
But, I will still consider and care for your well being if you get hit by a car in an accident and become a vegitable. I dont have to like you. But, You deserve to be consider and care for just because you are human. and I will not use the misfortune incident to illustrate my point.
canglong
09-29-2004, 10:37 PM
That is certainly nuts for some such as those believing the Shao Lin monks design advance martial art to kill the Qing.
yin/yang
war/peace
life/death
Ming/Qing
questions/answers
Hendrik/phenix/picachu/? = out of balance out of focus
anerlich
09-29-2004, 10:39 PM
I accept my karma without a problem.
Could you consider accepting it a little more quietly?
yellowpikachu
09-29-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by anerlich
Could you consider accepting it a little more quietly?
One doesnt have to hide to accepting one fault. if there is one.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
My urge for you to delete that sad inconsiderate and unneccesary part of your post is trying to urge you to consider about others while you make your point.
However, your reply shows your self-righteous justification which I dont think there is anything to discuss further about your way of making points.
To remember who you are and what's really important. Say nothing, but say it with purpose and meaning.;)
Originally posted by canglong
yin/yang
war/peace
life/death
Ming/Qing
questions/answers
Hendrik/phenix/picachu/? = out of balance out of focus
The questions of Hendrik's live isn't meant to be forgotten. BTW, Hendrik doesn't practice Wing Chun, just talk Wing Chun.
yellowpikachu
09-30-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Rhat
To remember who you are and what's really important. Say nothing, but say it with purpose and meaning.;)
I am very glad that I cannot do what you do.
To twist words, to support others' action of being inconsiderate on human's tragical pain, sorrow, grief, and sadness.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
That is certainly nuts for some such as those believing the Shao Lin monks design advance martial art to kill the Qing.
A thought provoking reminder of the White Crane Wing Chun that surrounds us.......Hendrik, we will slow down long enough to pay attention to your story.
yellowpikachu
09-30-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Rhat
A thought provoking reminder of the White Crane Wing Chun that surrounds us.......Hendrik, we will slow down long enough to pay attention to your story.
You like to discuss about white crane, shao lin, emei and wing chun, starts a new discussion. why not? Go ahead.
This is the second time I encourage you to start a new discussion.
You seem to be either shy or have so much fear to stand up and start a new discussion.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
I am very glad that I cannot do what you do.
All of this is out of focus. The motive now is simply to be awake from moment to moment and to deal the real issue: You should spend "TIME" to practice your White Crane Kung Fu, intead of throwing stones at Shaolin Temple.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
To twist words, to support others' action of being inconsiderate on human's tragical pain, sorrow, grief, and sadness.
Sit down, be still, and pay attention to Cang Long's voice: "Your reply shows a feeble attempt at emotional blackmail. and most of your own posts are little other than self-righteous justification."
yellowpikachu
09-30-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Rhat
1, All of this is out of focus. The motive now is simply to be awake from moment to moment and to deal the real issue: You should spend "TIME" to practice your White Crane Kung Fu, intead of throwing stones at Shaolin Temple.
2, Sit down, be still, and pay attention to Cang Long's voice: "Your reply shows a feeble attempt at emotional blackmail. and most of your own posts are little other than self-righteous justification."
1, what do you know beside singing the old song you made up? what do you contribute to this forum beside all the empty words trolling?
2, you cant even get the "who post what straight" and misqoute.
The rest about your mind is self-explainatory, isnt it?
3, trolling the pikachu is not going to change the fact about Shao Lin Zen, Shao Lin Da mo's teaching, and the source of Wing Chun Kuen.
back to the topic,
What kind of SLT or SNT you do?
or you know nothing at all?
duende
09-30-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Rhat
All of this is out of focus. The motive now is simply to be awake from moment to moment and to deal the real issue: You should spend "TIME" to practice your White Crane Kung Fu, intead of throwing stones at Shaolin Temple.
Rhat...
Hendikk's thrown enough stones to build a second great wall of China.
Chango
09-30-2004, 11:16 PM
We all know the intent of this thread. This is rediculous! Hendrick, Pikachu etc.... screw driver, hammer etc... A tool non the less by any other name. No matter what a tool is a tool. this tool has wasted enough of everybodies time.
anerlich
10-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Sit down, be still, and pay attention to Cang Long's voice: "Your reply shows a feeble attempt at emotional blackmail. and most of your own posts are little other than self-righteous justification."
Canglong (one word) didn't say that, I did.
Waxwood rod
10-01-2004, 03:09 AM
Some may need SLT, others SNT, Some may need both. Some may need one or the other and not know it. Some may need neither.
An off topic comment: the HFY people that post here are the reason why I never want to know anything about HFY. Why don't you guys go beat each other off on your own forum.
duende
10-01-2004, 08:20 AM
Waxwood Rod??
Is that your real name?? You got to be kidding me! You poor thing! No wonder your a bit fixated with beating off.
BTW... the only HFY people who posted on this thread are Canglong, Me, and now Chango.
But if you'd rather hang with Hendikk, the more waxing to the both of you!
yellowpikachu
10-01-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Chango
We all know the intent of this thread. This is rediculous! Hendrick, Pikachu etc.... screw driver, hammer etc... A tool non the less by any other name. No matter what a tool is a tool. this tool has wasted enough of everybodies time.
Get rid of the "I and I think " just observe, and world will instantaneously open up to become much much much much much wider.
More Zen that way right?
yellowpikachu
10-01-2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by duende
Waxwood Rod??
Is that your real name?? You got to be kidding me! You poor thing! No wonder your a bit fixated with beating off.
BTW... the only HFY people who posted on this thread are Canglong, Me, and now Chango.
But if you'd rather hang with Hendikk, the more waxing to the both of you!
fear gives raise to anger.
anger gives raise to hatred.
hatred gives raise to suffering.
suffering gives raise to wanting to force the world according to oneself.
Wanting to force the world according to oneself gives raise to disappointment.
Disappointment give raise to more fear.
fear gives raise to anger.
anger gives raise to hatred.
hatred gives raise to suffering......
SNT tells one to drop the ideas and be non ideas, no thoughts, and stay in the silence stillness or now to cross over the sea of suffering.
Then, the all little details shows up naturally --- Small training essense --- SLT.
some need one sets, some need two sets, some need none. some have not heard about them at all. depend on localization evloution or LE.
Originally posted by duende
Hendikk's thrown enough stones to build a second great wall of China.
When it comes to Stones, Hendrik is the master!
Originally posted by Hendrik
back to the topic,
What kind of SLT or SNT you do?
or you know nothing at all?
You do White Crane SLT, and I do Wing Chun Kuen (SNT/Chum Kiu/Biu Jee).
Originally posted by anerlich
Canglong (one word) didn't say that, I did.
Thanks for helping me to see!
Zatoichi:cool:
canglong
10-01-2004, 04:50 PM
originally posted by hendik
some need one sets, some need two sets, some need none. some have not heard about them at all. depend on localization evloution or LE. LE exist in your mind alone.
originally posted by hendik
back to the topic,
What kind of SLT or SNT you do?
or you know nothing at all? I know you have too many topics going to keep up with but if you just read it then you will see this is not the topic. More SNT might help you focus.
An off topic comment: the HFY people that post here are the reason why I never want to know anything about HFY. waxwood rod, Now I 'm not sure I'll be able to sleep tonight.
i'm not sure where you get with this whole HFY bashing thing Hendrik. i can barely understand what you write, but from what i get out of it, you've accomplished nothing, asking the question if SNT and SLT. people are actually trying to answer it, and you havent stopped trolling around. if you've read MKF you know the theory concerning 2-track training, SNT for the philosophy and ideas along with the physical training, and SLT for quickly learning body method. so how about you shut up real quick. besides, where did you get your credentials? from what i understand, you dont know jack about WCK at all, let alone HFY, so whats with your bull**** Q and A for something you wouldn't even understand?
An off topic comment: the HFY people that post here are the reason why I never want to know anything about HFY.
waxwood rod, whats wrong with what HFY guys say to defend the system? when some troll throws a couple stones, and we reply, we're the bad guys?
yellowpikachu
10-01-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by KFD
i'm not sure where you get with this whole ... bashing thing Hendrik. i can barely understand what you write, but from what i get out of it, you've accomplished nothing, asking the question if SNT and SLT. people are actually trying to answer it, and you havent stopped trolling around. if you've read ... you know the theory concerning 2-track training, SNT for the philosophy and ideas along with the physical training, and SLT for quickly learning body method. so how about you shut up real quick. besides, where did you get your credentials? from what i understand, you dont know jack about WCK at all, let alone ..., so whats with your bull**** Q and A for something you wouldn't even understand?
I can think this way:
Hmm, somedays, WCner cant even discuss about WCK without someone's approval anymore. Because a certain people OWN WCK.
1, years ago, some people published an article to call every wing chun kuen lineage beside a certain one as WATERY.
2, months ago, some people published a Book to called all other's wing chun kuen lineage 'popular, personal expression" beside a certain one.
3, today, all wingchuners even a small pikachu must not talk about SNT or SLT,
otherwise it is sinful, it is bashing, and will be just to be harrash, attack, punished by a group of people continously, and will be questions:
"besides, where did you get your credentials? from what i understand, you dont know jack about WCK at all, let alone...., so whats with your bull**** Q and A for something you wouldn't even understand?"
looks like a great tactics to numb and step by step taking control and to be the master. In Chinese, this is called " turning guest into the head of the house." Wise indeed.
Or
I can think this way:
can you stop be so sensity always thinking other is talking about you? open you heart and look. dont think. where is your Shao Lin Chan immoveable wisdom? I thought you have the Shao Lin Chan philosophy first hand experience. like Damo of Shao Lin, he took a beaten and swallow his broken teeth with his blood without saying a thing, even others is dead wrong and lost in reasoning.
Why get bug down by a little unworthed to even mention PIKACHU who as you said "from what i understand, you dont know jack about WCK at all."?
will one send a troup to argue with a fool who dont know jack about WCK at all? dont you think that is a waste of time for the Shao Lin Chan philosophy first hand expereince practitioners? Ignore that fool pikachu, why even waste energy?
show your Chan why let the fool with bull**** Q and A drag you down? not worthed even to post a reply, dont you think so? why wasting energy? Show your Chaan.
Can everyone get back to the discussion about SNT and SLT now without get off track with the above? You know, it is more befinicial to discuss and mutual benifit then all these off track stuff. and if you people dont like my post, as I have mention a few times, dont read it when you see the yellow pikachu. and treat it as crazy post. easy. right? why even waste energy?
the yellow pikachu is insignificant, so why even bother?
or
I can think this way:
relax be ZEN!
i never claimed to be a master, or chan, or zen. i said that your questions are just randomly put out, even after they're answered by MKF, and past posts.
you cant just go in putting up all kinds of crap that dont even make sense, and expect people to be all 'chan' and ignore you. thats like throwing stuff at the animals at the zoo, acting all brave because they can't get you
today, all wingchuners even a small pikachu must not talk about SNT or SLT
well, other then how i'm starting to think you should be forbidden to talk, or breathe, nobody ever said that WCK practictioners cant ask questions about SLT along with SNT. and besides, you aren't even a WCK player. you're just asking questions that have been answered already. so give it up.
yellowpikachu
10-01-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by KFD
i'm starting to think you should be forbidden to talk, or breathe, .
what do you mean by the above?
it means all the posts that i read from you seem to be pointless. or insulting to people, which is rude and annoying.
yellowpikachu
10-02-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by KFD
it means all the posts that i read from you seem to be pointless. or insulting to people, which is rude and annoying.
"i can barely understand what you write, but from what i get out of it, you've accomplished nothing, asking the question if SNT and SLT. people are actually trying to answer it, and you havent stopped trolling around. " --------KFD
The reader's not understanding and or get the points does means the writer's fault. perhaps, the reader cant understand what is not in his level?
"so how about you shut up real quick. besides, where did you get your credentials?
from what i understand, you dont know jack about WCK at all, ...... so whats with your bull**** Q and A for something you wouldn't even understand?" ---KFD
is this " insulting to people, which is rude and annoying" ?
What is the "credential of this person? What and how much he knows or understand about the person he is being rude to and insulting? ZERO that is forsure.
and he also forgot this is a Public Forum instead of his Forum which has to run according to his rule and everything others discuss about is about him or his stuffs. Is this an acceptable public behavior in a democratic country?
perhaps the Yellow Pikachu is a Mirror, A mirror that one sees oneself in it. But thinking that is the Yellow Pikachu.
Perhaps one is not sure and confident about onself. Thus, one hate clear mirror which shown it all.
-------------------------------------------------------
when you dispel illusion, all you have left is still illusion --- You that dispel-sor, is the worst creator of the illusion.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
perhaps the Yellow Pikachu is a Mirror, A mirror that one sees oneself in it. But thinking that is the Yellow Pikachu.
Perhaps one is not sure and confident about onself. Thus, one hate clear mirror which shown it all.
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when you dispel illusion, all you have left is still illusion You that dispel-sor, is the worst creator of the illusion.
"Pikachu is a Mirror"
"A mirror that one sees oneself in it"
Hendrik, Is this your MIRROR????????
Originally posted by Hendrik
Good bye to the forum
I would like to say good bye from this forum to lots of friends here. Thanks for the fun.
I would like to say good bye to Rene, Robert, Andreas, Ernie, Pual, KJ, Matrix, Planet Wing Chun , Joy, David in Sandiago, DZu... BoB, Jim..YYLEE.. Phil... so here on thier names not get drop ...
I would like to say good bye to those who hates me deep in their guts that now you have peace. it is very suffocate to choking each others. Not Zen at all.
Bye bye
peace
hendrik
anerlich
10-02-2004, 10:01 PM
perhaps the Yellow Pikachu is a Mirror, A mirror that one sees oneself in it. But thinking that is the Yellow Pikachu.
Perhaps one is not sure and confident about onself. Thus, one hate clear mirror which shown it all.
Perhaps it's more like a one way mirror in a police station, with you on the wrong side rabbiting on about Zen Patriarchs being beheaded, children's trading card empires set up by marketroids to bleed their parents of their hard earned money, third-rate reincarnation, and the usual incomprehensible stream of consciousness veering from subject to subject like a drunken man running a gauntlet.
We, the detectives on the other side, are saying, "this guy's too much of a lunatic to be charged with anything, but we need to keep him off the streets. We'll have to send him to the nut farm."
todi laugin
10-03-2004, 01:09 AM
The marialist way is to maintain harmony with oneself and ones surroundings. So far you guys have left this behined. Where is your hospitality, your inner peace, your civility,and your aceptance of others. Why did you start this thread? Did you do it so you could luer others into a trap to ambush them when they voice a different opinion? I thought that we would be able to work together here and learn from oneanother,obviouly that is not true. Will you turn on me now and claim that I don't know "WC,VT,WT,VC"?
anerlich
10-03-2004, 04:51 AM
The marialist way is to maintain harmony with oneself and ones surroundings
Plenty of exceptions to that rule at all levels in WC-land. Talk's cheap, and hifalutin platitudes the same.
I thought that we would be able to work together here and learn from oneanother,obviouly that is not true.
Not on this thread, certainly. Other threads are different, I think.
Will you turn on me now and claim that I don't know "WC,VT,WT,VC"?
No, but if you start getting on a high horse after only eight posts, you'll probably be told where to stick your lectures on how you think others should behave.
yellowpikachu
10-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by todi laugin
The marialist way is to maintain harmony with oneself and ones surroundings. So far you guys have left this behined.
Where is your hospitality, your inner peace, your civility,and your aceptance of others. Why did you start this thread?
Did you do it so you could luer others into a trap to ambush them when they voice a different opinion?
I thought that we would be able to work together here and learn from oneanother,obviouly that is not true. Will you turn on me now and claim that I don't know "WC,VT,WT,VC"?
Be able to be staying in balance and embraced others view disregard of what they are. and, One can always find positive constructive components from all side, with a two (multi) way viewing instead of the ordinary -- one way viewing, is a training itself.
Not a simple stuffs.
But the forum with many differents views and personalities is a great way to observe oneself, isnt it?
Can one stay balance, silence, aware, and living in Now? beyond emotion out flow, perturb, and living within one's own thougths, that is not a thought process or a way of thinking,
but an attainment need to be achieved.
But then, that attaiment has to based on at least a glims of the always Present, the no-dual, the original face, or the Buddha nature. which is not an alterstate but an always present existance beyond thoughts or the thinker or thinking. and there on one can surrender the emotion to think according to one's value and reference --- ego, which is a hinderance to real understanding of reality.
only then, one will have the based of the reverse observation experience and not attached to Thoughts or the thinker. where the two (multi) ways observation is possible. where the Aways present open up the view from a singel path viewing based on one's thinker to multi path.... as it is said, open the lotus of thousand pedals, be able to view all conciousness without rejection, the crown chakra.
as it said in the Prajnaparamita heart sutra
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Verse 5
tasmac chariputra apraptitvad bodhisattvasya prajnaparamitam asritya vibaraty acittavaranah. cittavarana-nastitvad atrasto viparyasa-ati-kranto nistha-nirvana-praptah.
Therefore, O Sariputra, by reason of his nonattainment (of nirvana), the bodhisattva, having resorted to prajnaparamita (transcendental wisdom), dwells serenely with perfect mental freedom. By his non-possession of mental impediments (the bodhisattva) without fear, having surpassed all perversions, attains the unattainable (bliss of) nirvana.
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That is the legend of the past.......
How many had attainted the mental freedom with SLT to activate the multi ways observation, sensing, listerning ...ect and open up more and bigger dimentions ..... bliss and compassionate to all living beings?
A Good Question of is it a need of SLT and SNT set? or within the SLT set, there exist another training which is goes beyond the Thinker?
Perhaps the legend is just a legend. Perhaps it exist because we still can read a collection of its details illustration.......
Instead you go on copying stuffs from sutra you're something separate and well defind --Picachu--something with a name, your identity.
Truth speaks to us directly, without words.;)
Originally posted by KFD
it means all the posts that i read from you seem to be pointless. or insulting to people, which is rude and annoying.
More precisely! Awareness of this---where there are questions, there are no answers from Hendrik. In other words, it is pointless to discuess the SLT of white crane and the WCK (SNT/CK/BJ) with him.:rolleyes:
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