video hosting

[shirkers1]

So here is the thread for the videos I just put up. Is anyone out there willing to host larger video files for me temporarily. The forms I did are to big for me to put on my site right now. I can always wait till I'm able to upgrade but that might be a while. :) If so please let me know.

Like I said in the video thread these shots I did real fast tonight just so I could test my host site to see if it works. So I just threw in some basic two man drills. I'm the one in the beanie and the other two guys are new students of mine that stuck around to help me out after class. They are just learning the movements as you can tell but they'll get there. :) I'll re record the stuff this weekend in the light so you can see the movements better. I'll probably only keep these up for a couple of days until I can re do them. But I figured I'd throw them up any way so you can get a chuckle.

mark

[German Bai Lung]

I can´t view the vids! AVI is not a good Video-Format. Better is Mpeg or wmv. Best is of course Quicktime mov! ;) (yes, I got a Mac, not a stupid Microsoft engine! :D )

[puja]

The Clips are avi but encoded with Windows Media Codec 9 so they are some kind of wmv.
Mark, best you stick with MPEG with your next version of the clips. This way even our fellow Mac- and Linux-Owners will be surely be able to view the clips.

Bets regards,

Puja

P.S.: i sent you a PM on the issue of hosting

[ninjaboy]

i can't get anything other than "page can not be displayed" to come up for me....anyone else have this problem?

neil

[shirkers1]

**** it!! Did you try to right click on the file and select open with? It should bring up media players on your computer and work that way? Any way I'll try to re do them. Sorry.

mark

[tanglang69]

If you right click, save target as, and save it. You can open it with Windows media player or Realplayer. It worked for me.

I liked the vids.

Laters

oved
tanglang69
:)

[GermanMantis]

I had no problem to open it directly. But i haven't seen all clips yet, connetion is a little bit slow.
GM

[mantisben]

Originally posted by shirkers1
So here is the thread for the videos I just put up. Is anyone out there willing to host larger video files for me temporarily. The forms I did are to big for me to put on my site right now. I can always wait till I'm able to upgrade but that might be a while. :) If so please let me know.

Like I said in the video thread these shots I did real fast tonight just so I could test my host site to see if it works. So I just threw in some basic two man drills. I'm the one in the beanie and the other two guys are new students of mine that stuck around to help me out after class. They are just learning the movements as you can tell but they'll get there. :) I'll re record the stuff this weekend in the light so you can see the movements better. I'll probably only keep these up for a couple of days until I can re do them. But I figured I'd throw them up any way so you can get a chuckle.

mark

Nice drills!

[shirkers1]

mantisben

Thanks! I promise more lights next time. :)

[yu shan]

Thanks Shirkers, appreciated the clips! I had no problem with the lighting, I could fully see what was being demonstrated.

I hope to get something up in the near future, so much to choose from and I need to get the OK from my Shifu.

[German Bai Lung]

I tried everything but the codec is not the best it seems. Even the software that normally shows AVI and WMV didn´t play the clips! :(

Could someone change them and send me the clips as Mpg or mov?

[shirkers1]

Hmm I'm sorry man. Like I said they're really just test shots any way. I promise I'll have some better shots up this weekend and I'll be sure to save it a different way and use a quicktime codec so the mac guys can see it as well.

I'm really not that bright at this hosting stuff yet so if someone else can hook you up with the current vids that would be great.

mark

[puja]

Jochen, I'll recode the clips and mail them over by tomorrow.
If anyone else is interested in the recoded versions, just ask me. as I'm out for the WE you could possibly have to wait till monday ;)

Best regards,

Puja

[shirkers1]

some new clips up enjoy.

[mantis7]

Nice Drill.. I only have one question in the eight video clip where you are twisting in to a rising upperct. Are you using this as an elbow break or an uppercut movement?


because if you are using it as a uppercut like strike the crossing of the are under the elbow will cut the strikes moment and maximum power deliverd.
Cheers
Victor

[shirkers1]

mantis 7

Like I said I'll re do these this weekend with just me broken down better, these guys are just starting on these two man drills so the little details aren't there yet. If you look closely I'm actually making the points you made to the guys you can see me correcting the stance and footwork and positioning. I switch up a little and pull more back then down, but he still didn't get it. I think he was worried about the end result in stead of going one move at a time. :) but he'll get it soon enough. It was only his second time doing it.

When you pull, it's more of a straight back pull instead of down, and your shoulder actually almost slips under the other guys arm pit allowing you to deliver the upper cut. The momentum of the pull and punch at the same time makes it a more powerful strike than it looks. Also the upper cut can be more on a stright line than hooking up kind of like the fileing punch. But if I was to extend that tactic it would be through his head so you see a more curved boxer punch.

That leaves you in position for an arm bar type strike. If you grab with the left hand and strike with the right, you won't have the time to bring the right hand up for the attack to the elbow after the uppercut. So you strike with your shoulder. Either pressing or just hitting, stunning the opponent and knocking him off balance allowing you to attack his elbow with your right arm afterwards taking him down to the ground or breaking the arm or striking the kidneys or ribs or whatever you please.

If you look at me and not the other guys you see how the hand strikes are always within punching range. Using footwork and body positioning I could actually reach past the point of contact. That is important with all two-man drills, why do a drill if you're not within the fighting range the drill is drilling? There should be intent in the strikes. Both sides are getting the workout. The guy on defense should be blocking and moving his head etc when applicable. The slaps should be deep and fast striking then returning to ready position, if you over shoot the block you leave yourself open if you miss. Never anticipate, you could be anticipating the wrong movement. You react to what you are being fed by the other guy. After you get the basic movements you take away the meeting at the wrists and you do them with broken rhythm from a ready fighting position so you learn the timing and distancing better. Start off slow then work your way up just like any other drill. Why do them fast if you're doing them wrong. Applied application, correct distancing, proper mechanics and don’t choreograph too much. Broken rhythm will give you a better sense of timing and sensitivity.

[mantis7]

:D nice reply shirkers1

and I was only watching you :D I could tell the diffrnece of skill level in the video and saw you instructing him.

It was a nice technique and the foot work was good but have you tried after the plucking movement and sliding the leg back to go into a medium height twist stance. I grabbed a partner to try this out and it added a bit more power and leverage. Well for the most part it seem to do so for me.

Cheers
Victor

[shirkers1]

Thanks, mantis 7

actually if you look close at my feet and the arm I'm pulling with that leg steps forward at an angle allowing the power of the waist and footwork to shoot the punch out. You could use the twist if you like sure, but I feel stepping forward gives you better leverage for the next tactic....
After you have the basic movement down you should always be thinking of what you are going to do next, what opening you've created. Being agressive and never stopping with the attack.

This can be accomplished simply by the rolling of the hips with the footwork, example you've twisted the hips one way naturally you un twist for the next tactic. I don't know if I'm explaining this right so you can understand. But if you strike down you can go right back up with a strike, if you strike left you can go right back to the right with a strike. Whether it's hook line or straight line.

I feel the twist stance leaves you in a holding posture instead of a more mobile one. I like to use the twist stance as an inbetween movement. Stepping forward into the twist and moving directly to the next stance.

hope that helps a little. :)

[mantis7]

shirkers1


Thank you shirkers1 you are very intelligent and sequential in your explinations and tactics. :d
You were thinking that same way that I was as in using the twist as a transitional movement.
It seems we were thinking the same thing and upon looking at the video one more time with more scrutinyI could see what we are speaking about with the last time you apllied the technique. Kuddos and thank you for sharing. Please post more as I am sure many could use said drills in their own personal training.

Cheers
Victor

[shirkers1]

Thanks mantis 7.

You have to do what feels natural to you of coarse. The drills are very stripped down so there is room for individual changes. Plugging in a punch instead of a palm cutting etc. So have fun just keep in mind the applied intent etc, and proper mechanics.

mark

[German Bai Lung]

With Pujas help I could watch the drills, unlukely not the form!

Well, the drills are ok, nice ones.

For me it was interesting in seeing how "behaviour - moves" was taken over from teacher to student!
You see right from the first clip I noticed a "very relaxed" habit. Short lifting of the shoulder, slightly move the head to the side... something like this. First only noticed by shirker1. But later also his student immitate this posings .... very funny!

Hope to see your Form soon!

Thanks for sharing! This is the most important way of joining the community! Thanks for that!

[shirkers1]

Thanks bai,

I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but another small and important detail in the drills. Involving the pull punch drills, or when doing any type of drill involving the grab with the diou or eagle claw make sure you’re not just going through the motions. Grab with force. How many times have you been doing this and the other guys was sweaty and you slip right off when you pull? That is because the timing of the grab and pull was off as well as not applying the proper “squeeze” with the grab. These drills along with iron arm training help develop the strength in the grab. The ability to do this is very important and involves split second timing.

You must develop this jerking action initiated from the strong stance pulling with the arm and hips, creating a whiplash type effect on the opponent. It’s not a full on strength type technique, it’s a full body motion that whips and jerks. If done correctly you will either jerk him off of his feet or his head from his neck. This disables him for a split second for your attack and or injures the neck itself.

If you look closely on the newer pull punch drill you can see my students neck snapping back. Although slight it is enough to jar his head so he can’t get a proper block on the technique. His head was jarred from the jerk and he’s unable to focus on what’s coming next.

These tactics are very important to mantis in general and “MUST” be played constantly to develop the proper mechanics and power.

mark

[shirkers1]

"on most of those clips they throw a punch and stop the fist in front of the guys face. They dont try to actually land the punch, and they hold the arm out. And they seem to just punch slow and block and they don't try tapping each other lightly to show that they would have hit the other guy even though they aren't sparring. I'm alot more impressed by the wing chun clips Ive been seeying lately online. Also it doesn't look like northern mantis to me with the mantis fist formation."

Well enforcer I don't know if you were talking about my clips or not. But if you read my other comments it pretty much explains what the purpose of the drills are and why I'm doing certain things. I don't know what you are talking about with contact any one with common sense can see that there is purpose and intent in the drills, everything is done for a reason. Those drills are bare bones beginning and progress as you learn the mechanics of them. It's called control I know exactly where my fist is going and when. On the palm cutting drills I actually make contact with the neck and back to ready. You can have your opinions, thats funny because I haven't seen anything video wise that's impressed me yet period. Including my own, so you can have your "wing chun".. I'll keep doing my so called "northern mantis".

The cutting palm drills are taken straight from the 14 ways. Way number 14. The pulling, trapping, footwork are all northern mantis tactics. The waist cutting drill is a combo of a couple things seen all over in northern mantis empty hand sets. Waist cutting from sub baat soa among other fist forms, and finishing up with way number 6. I don't know what "northern mantis" you've seen. But I know we're not the only northern mantis school to do some of these drills. Each family has their own way and flavor of doing things but I know what I do is northern mantis.

[mantis108]

I can't see the form clip neither but I enjoyed the drill clips. Personally, I very much appreciate them. Thank you very much for sharing. If you don't mind, I would like to share a few thoughts with you and our community.

First on sharing, I'd give 120% approval for sharing any video material. So far we have seen Tainan (Kevin), GBL (Jochen), YingChing (Brian), Loki, YuShan (Jim), Oso (Matt), N (Norman), Yours, Some from HK, some from Russia and mainland (Ilya Profatilov's side), and lastly my clips as well. I am sorry if I missed anyone. I am basically pretty happy with the sharing so far. I am not sure why it is important for some people to judge who's better or the best. Anyway, to me it's all good because it bring us to see what is similar and what is different. Through the visual aide we can see that most of the time we are closer as a family than not.

About Shirkers1's drill clips, they are clearly drills. As such, they are fine. There is somewhat a resemblance of Wing Chun and G_d forbid JKD esque on a quick glance. Please don't be offended and don't take this the wrong way, my friend. However, we've got to understand that when drills are broken down to cellular level they all look very much the same on the outside. BTW, if we flip open any MA magazine, most of the stuff (applications or whatnot) on there today are more or less the same. Can we say that they are all the same? We have to go to the details and look for the subtle differences plus we have to look at the overall approach. Having said this, I think the cutting palm drill series is reminiscent of Wing Chun approach (chi sao) in closed quartered fighting; thus, might give the impression to the Wing Chuner(s) or even JKDist(s) that it looks kind of like WC but not quite. Pull punch drill on the other hand does show more mantis flavor. Straightly my impression only, I believe that the purpose of the cutting palm drill as shown in the clips is to let the student grasp onto the idea of sealing. The central idea is there but I would said that except for Cai (plucking), Gao (hooking) and Lu (grab) are less emphasized in the drill. This is fine because progress is accumlative. That is nothing wrong with a concept and one technique at a time.

Finally, I think that Modern Wushu or theatrical MA performance has done a lot of harm to traditional Kung Fu. Unless you crouch and roar like a tiger, you aren't doing tiger fist; unless you hop and weave your arms around like mantis, it's not mantis fist. *sigh* It is disheartening to know that people actually think clowning around is Kung Fu. If you are using principles then you are doing Wing Chun or some other "real" stuff but never Mantis Kung Fu. :rolleyes: Sorry about the rant.

All in all, it is a job well done. Please keep the sharing of material coming.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[shirkers1]

mantis 108 thanks,

I agree 100% with the correlation, mantis and wc/jkd are very closely related when it comes to trapping any way. There is only so many ways you can do a tactic correctly. If other styles have that tactic then it's going to be similar. :) JkDish because unlike WC there is movement with footwork. Now like I said this is bare bones beginner, so it progresses down the road in how you do the drills, moving etc.

These drills emphasize the slap traps, footwork (shooting in with the strike), bridging, wedging, pull punching, short power, distancing, timing, conditioning of the arms, jerking. Just to name a few all of which are all northern mantis concepts and tactics. To say it’s not is just stupid, and frankly makes one not want to share anything at all.

The hook/grapple/strike drills are a separate drill all together. We actually do those over top and under the attacking arm. As seen in the 14 ways there is more than one use of the hook grapple strike. Way 4, 8, 11, 14.

ENFORCER

To not see what is going on in these drills, to not have the common martial skill to see the use in these drills shows how little you really know about training in general. Any good martial artist or fighter for that matter should be able to look at a person move and how they hold themselves and see that they know how to handle themselves, and the basic mechanics etc are performed with intent. This is one of the mantis principles, to be able to size an opponent up. If you think my training is weak then you just grossly miss underestimated your opponent. I’m not saying I’m better than you or anyone else out there, I know I can handle myself and I know my martial skill isn’t weak by any means. If I get ahold of you you’re going to know it. You know why? Because of the way I train my northern mantis. : )

Now it may be the 2 hours sleep I’m running on that’s giving me a little bite in my words so I apologize, but to throw out a comment without even researching first to see why the training is done a certain way or to question whether it’s “northern mantis” is kind of idiotic to me and it didn’t sit very well... Sorry to everyone else who had to hear me rant. ; ) and jake I'll take my own advise and shut up now.. :) just had to vent..

mark

[ninjaboy]

well said, mark.

[shirkers1]

Thanks ninja boy

wow got some sleep last night, feeling a little less grumpy today. :)

My words may have been harsh but there is truth in them..

[shirkers1]

Well the saga ends here. Finally heard back from enforcer about his comments. He asked me if I saw some movie that had mantis in it. I responded with the quote below and then you see his answer.

quote:
shirkers1 wrote on 10-10-2004 05:39 PM:
No the only movie I saw that dealt with mantis was DEATH DUEL OF THE MANTIS.

But what you see in WUSHU competition forms, and movies are nothing like "real" traditional fighting northern mantis.

Why do you ask?


if it looked like it did in that movie than it would be effective. But considering kung fu looks alot more effective in movies than in real life (everyone starts kickboxing when sparring and has incredibly slow reactions).

that was his answer!!!!

This guy/kid whatever he is, obviously is lost in the world of make believe and that what you see on tv is what something is suppose to look like. So I'm not even wasting my time dealing with this cat any more. This is an example of what those people out there who see wushu mantis, or mantis in movies think our beloved style is about. All I can say is that they are gravely mistaken and frankly I can't see waisting the time on trying to convince them other wise. Maybe one day they'll come across someone with skill who isn't an actor or a gymnyst and they'll end up getting their asses handed to them.

[Enforcer-]

You guys want me to post those clips on bullshido so they can collectively chew you out?

[shirkers1]

Is that suppose to like scare me or something? Do what you gotta do brother...

the vids are on line so they are fair game as far as I'm concerned. Also there is no "you guys" you are talking to me address me. I'll speak for myself if someone else wants to chime in that's fine. We've already PM'd each other and you still haven't answered any of my questions as to what style you train etc. I've tried to answer yours, but you seem to have a view and you're going to stick with it, I obviously disagree with it. Like I said I'm not going to waste my time any more trying to convince someone that what they see on tv is FAKE and not what we train, if you think what is on tv is more useful then you just have issues. If you don't have the comon sense to see that then keep on believing what you want.

See my mind isn't clouded with all this hocus pocus crap. What I do is to the point and is driven towards actual street application. So whatever you and you're "bullshido" guys have to say really means nothing to me and would be pure entertainment for me. Unless it's constructive critisism which is what I've gotten so far until you strolled in I'm not going to waste my time any more.

mark

[shirkers1]

Thanks for putting some of my clips up there, the others weren't mine. So if you have something to say about those drills then reply in those threads. I still back up my videos.

[puja]

Enforcer,
I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to not put any links to my server (tanglang.info) on bullshido, please (Sorry Mark). As I do have a traffic-limit on my server, I want to try keeping them for a group limited to mostly tanglang-practitioners. As these clips are not meant for entertainment, but for scincere discussion between tanglang-practitioners, who, if my traffic limit is reached, wouldn't be able to see them anymore.
I'm not ignorant of what they call McDojos, but it's kind of sad to put a website online only for ranting about other people.

best regards,

Puja

[Enforcer-]

sorry to late you dared me to do it and I did. I cant reply because they banned me. They always ban me when I make a new username there.

[unixfudotnet]

Originally posted by puja
The Clips are avi but encoded with Windows Media Codec 9 so they are some kind of wmv.
Mark, best you stick with MPEG with your next version of the clips. This way even our fellow Mac- and Linux-Owners will be surely be able to view the clips.


Linux and other *nix users may use mplayer, which has codecs for most everything, including all popular and currently used formats such as wmv, real, and qt.

So it doesn't matter to us Linux and *nix users what format it is in :)

[ninjaboy]

i can't get the website to show up...is it because i'm in china or is this not a real website or something?

neil

[shirkers1]

No it's a real website to bad it's full of un real facts. Which is ironic since it's main purpose is to expose fraudulent MA's. If you want some rub you wrong entertainment then feel free to go check it out. But unless you are a modern grappler you will get zero respect, no matter how reasonable you are. All they know how to do is insult via keyboard. I honestly wouldn't waste my time ninja, christ with that name alone those guys would nut in there pants at the chance to rip on you. It's very sad. :)

mark

[GenKwan]

shirkers1,

Thanks for the vids. I've been playing with the drills with a class mate of mine; always fun to try new things.

I just have a few questions/comments regarding some of the drills:

On the 3rd drill/clip, are you leading with a punch and then collapsing your elbow upon your opponents parry, then trapping with the elbow and doing a backfist? If so then it makes more sense to me. It appears as an elbow strike sometimes that moves into a trapping elbow, which seems awkward to me. Maybe it's because you were just teaching the drill to the student for the first time.

On the 5th drill/clip, could you clarify the technique, the lighting makes it difficult to see what your doing with the right arm. The way my friend and I emulated it doesn't feel right.

In your opinion what is preventing a threat from the opponents back hand in clip 11? Using this technique seems to leave the face vulnerable.

I found that taking another step around on the take down in clip 13 prevented a possible groin strike, which we were able to do without the additional step behind. Food for thought.

Once again, thanks for the clips, I hope to see more. Rest assured some of us practicing martial artists appreciate it.

Regards,

GenKwan

[shirkers1]

GenKwan, thanks for the interest. I’ll pm you with some info.

For starters those drills are meant to be trained in sequence, starting off with the palm cutting drill where you slap trap and palm cut the side of the jaw or neck. Then you move on to the next ones. If you notice all the drills start with the slap then palm cut. So there is a progression in the training of the drills. Just wanted to make sure you got that, and actually there are 7 of them so I didn’t get them all taped down. I’ll PM you for some more info on those. You can plug in a fist if you like it’s up to the individual.

You are correct on the 3rd clip it starts off with the slap/palm cutting, when the partner parries you use that energy he fed you and you roll over top with the elbow trapping both of his arms down. (Think about having a hole in your arm and there’s a pin sticking out of his and you place your elbow on top of that pin pressing down). In the drill the newbie was bypassing the initial palm cutting and just rolling with the elbow. This is incorrect, that is why when I was doing it I deliberately separated each movement. But you want to gain that sensitivity when someone gives you that block you can roll immediately over top with the elbow. If you shoot in you can actually strike with the elbow or if you are out of range finish up with the back chop to the neck, temple, or jaw bone area. I would start off by playing each individual tactic like I’m doing it until you start to feel that energy being fed back.

In the 5th drill looking at me in the black this is the progression, you start off with a slap/palm cutting. As he parries with the right hand, you actually stick with your right forearm/elbow into his left arm and you press his left arm across and down into his body while you cross over and slap trap his right arm. Striking the meaty part of his forearm just below the elbow with your right hand. Finishing with a strike to the designated target. This one is tricky and involves sensitivity and sticking. I’ll address this in the PM I send you as well.

On clip 11, when the opponent punches you do one of two things. Looking at me you slap his fist with your left hand and either hein choi/fake hein choi to the head or use a destruction to the inside of the bicep at the same time you slap the striking hand. At this point his hand is actually trapped to the outside by your shoulder and the wrenching of you right hand in towards you (like a peck choi motion) dropping down and in towards you. This is good to pull him into a head but or knee strike. If he starts to resist you simple twist to the left so his free hand can’t strike you, which you kind of see in the last sequence. Also you can reach over with the left hand and apply a nasty chin na on that hand you have trapped while twisting the opposite way with your left elbow. It’s very painful and he’s really not worried about using that other hand. ; ) This if done right puts a lot of wrenching on the forearm more than the elbow. His palm is facing you and it’s baring his arm against your body and your wrenching arms.

On clip 13, this one is tricky to get in on someone it also involves a lot of sticking sensitivity. If you watch my left hand keeps his left hand trapped to the outside while my right hand slips in and wrenches back on his shoulder. It pulls all the muscles in your shoulder, chest, and pinches the bicep with your arm if you get it in right. As I wrench down with a strong jerking action you do twist to the outside of his free hand. Once he’s on his way down you apply the cutting/pressing palm to the side of the neck under his jaw bone and you pull on his shoulder and press on the jaw line stretching him out. If you have him down right he shouldn’t be able to reach you with the other hand. If he isn’t using it to try and hold himself up that is. Now I see what you are saying on the one it looks like the momentum would pulled him right around into my nuts.

That is where it would vary a little, I would end up just striking with my left hand while he was spinning around negating an attack or at least throwing his attack off. But I do see your point, that is what the training is for later when it’s not planned and with broken rhythm. It allows for the tactics to be applied in a more real situation, because it never happens the same way. Because different openings happen, so on and so on while you are in the midst of fighting. So when it goes down a little different you switch up the tactic to fit the situation. I have my guys try to fight it a little when they apply the tactic. Not just stand there and let the person work on you. That resistance helps you see how the tactic needs to be slapped on and what you need to do when they fight back. Sometimes all it takes is just a little more tweaking and they forget about that free hand or even thinking about fighting back. ;)


Hope this helped for now. I’ll get back to you about some more info.

mark

[GenKwan]

Great info in your response. Much appreciated. And thanks for the PM info also.

Regards,

GenKwan

[shirkers1]

Okay so I think I'm starting to figure out this editing crap!!! I ran through bung bo on film real quick and I edited a line out of it and posted it last night so check out the link. So now "finally" I can re do all this other stuff and put some forms up. So this stuff will probably vanish soon. Hope you enjoy.

mark