Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[MasterKiller]

CURSES!!!!! :mad: MK was actually defending SD for a bit! :eek: We were THIS close to bringing him over to the dark side of the force.

I thought MMA was the darkside?

[DPL]

Thanks but no thanks. Already have a brown belt in SD.

Wasn't talking about you, oh master of the misinterpretation. You were the one being called out for being a doofus for your Shaw Bros. training regimen.

There's only one MK on here and I think MasterKiller should thrash you for your presumption. Or at the very least blind you with his gleaming white skin. :D

[Shaolin Wookie]

ive seen that vid.....the forms are almost technically correct but the spirit of the tiger is lacking imo

also they dont look like beginners but first blacks from what i can see.

interesting

They had just learned the whole form. Of course it sucked. Mine sucked after 3 weeks. So did everyone's, and so would everyone who wasn't in the system, LOL. They're brown belts.

[mkriii]

But have these people that you know who learned 3 or more forms a month, have they "mastered" them like GM sin claims? These forms must be awefull short, 3 or 4 moves in each form.

[Flaca]

But have these people that you know who learned 3 or more forms a month, have they "mastered" them like GM sin claims? These forms must be awefull short, 3 or 4 moves in each form.

Yes, mastered. They are incredible athletes and intelligent people, as is GM Sin. And forms at 2nd black are 30 seconds to 2 minutes long. They require depth at that point. Nearly every form those 3 do are performance worthy every time, by which I mean stance, power & speed.
Again, on a sliding scale, I slide more towards sieve... :o

[Shaolin Wookie]

But have these people that you know who learned 3 or more forms a month, have they "mastered" them like GM sin claims? These forms must be awefull short, 3 or 4 moves in each form.

the beginning ones are short, as you know. And some of us do have experience in several other CMA's, and non-CMA's. And I can tell you, unlike the "stop-short" experiences you had in SD, there's nothing of the kind in any SD school I've ever seen, whereas there is in my other CMA experiences (and, I'm sure, in yours, or else you wouldn't have all this pent-up aggression. Here's some advice: GET LAID. I don't know how to put it plainer than that. IF you can't find a complying woman, get your buddy to give you a hand).

SD is not full-contact MMA, but neither is your art ;), nor is any art, except full-contact MMA, and that's only 'cuz they're getting paid to fight professionally. If you fight full-contact for the "fu%k of it", then you're deranged, or rich, and you have fantastic medical insurance. I hear "LARPer" from your mouth quite often. Clearly you're Chuck Liddel's understudy. And everyone at your school is obviously an ace, or an ass. Hard to tell which. Oh, you're not Chuck Liddel's understudy? Wait, you do CMA? Wait, do you have forms? Oh my god, I just realized something...........

Wait, I forgot......

Maybe you can draw the conclusion yourself?

[MasterKiller]

SD is not full-contact MMA, but neither is your art ;), nor is any art, except full-contact MMA, and that's only 'cuz they're getting paid to fight professionally. If you fight full-contact for the "fu%k of it", then you're deranged, or rich, and you have fantastic medical insurance.

ummm....MMA clubs are usually full-contact MMA. Otherwise, they aren't MMA clubs. Most people who train MMA never intend on fighting outside of class.

You can train MMA safely..though sometimes sh1t just happens.


I hear "LARPer" from your mouth quite often. Clearly you're Chuck Liddel's understudy. And everyone at your school is obviously an ace, or an ass. Hard to tell which. Oh, you're not Chuck Liddel's understudy? Wait, you do CMA? Wait, do you have forms? Oh my god, I just realized something...........

Well, Chuck can clearly be seen on www.thepit.tv wearing a black Gi and teaching kids. He obviously is a LARPer, too.

[sean_stonehart]

the beginning ones are short, as you know. And some of us do have experience in several other CMA's, and non-CMA's. And I can tell you, unlike the "stop-short" experiences you had in SD, there's nothing of the kind in any SD school I've ever seen, whereas there is in my other CMA experiences

Huh??:confused:

[kwaichang]

Ok I am confused I read most of the last 3 pages so my question is which one of the guys in the video is mkriii and which one is Mei Hua ?? They were both so good it had to be them I just dont know which one is which. And oh BTW Mei Hua or mkriii it is ACCEPTED NOT EXCEPTED YOU DING DONG. LEARN TO SPELL KC

[brucereiter]

For brown belts, their technical skill and application was horrible!

I have students that have been with me six weeks that can perform better and have a better core than the crap I saw those frauds doing

hi mei hua,

define "brown belt".

is there a standard reference for the skill level a "brown belt" should have?

please show us a video of your six week students performing their material.

you are calling strangers that you know very little about frauds. the 2 guys in that video despite their lack of understanding of the form shown are very nice people. in what way are the committing fraud?

bruce

[brucereiter]

When one has reached the level of brown belt, regardless of style, one has spent enough time and effort in their training to have a solid core foundation and technical ability.

Those forms were not only horribly sloppy, they lacked power, did not represent Tiger very well and sucked. That comes from their instruction and those heading their system and the system itself.

Perhaps to you crappy martial arts are ok as is being a LARPer, not to me

since you have such a solid foundation please share a video of how you do your martial arts. i think that would help you make your point.

[brucereiter]

That is a function of the student and the teacher. I've seen students in SD that were better after 6 weeks also. It just depends. BTW, the second guy has potential. There are a few things in his form that can be corrected and there needs to be that intensity and flavor to the form, but if they just learned the postures, then that's more than forgivable.

note.

the 2 guys had learned the form minutes/days before the video was made. they made the video to help remember the postures ... the first guy moved to la last i heard he is well and the second guy went on to practice muay thai. a friend of theirs "edited" the video and put it up as a joke.

[Judge Pen]

note.

the 2 guys had learned the form minutes/days before the video was made. they made the video to help remember the postures ... the first guy moved to la last i heard he is well and the second guy went on to practice muay thai. a friend of theirs "edited" the video and put it up as a joke.

That's reasonable. I don't think it was to cool to put on youtube a form that they just learned as a joke. I would hate for that to happen to me with some of the forms I've tapes to help me remember and practice them. Sausage being made.

[Baqualin]

Hello all. How the heck are all you SD students and teachers? Hope the world is treating you good. I feel on top of the world. Life is good....no, life is grand because I am grand. I see my old buddy Mei Hua has joined the forum. He's a great guy and shares a lot of my opinions. As a matter of fact I told him about this great conversation we've been having and told him he should join in. Do you not like the DL?

I see the children have come back to play:)
BQ

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;802376] Here's some advice: GET LAID. I don't know how to put it plainer than that. IF you can't find a complying woman, get your buddy to give you a hand).

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

Everytime I read your post I can lay off my sit ups for at least 3 days.....thanks for the work out.;)
BQ

[mkriii]

At my school we go med. contact sometimes a little harder (between med. & full). Like I stated earlier maybe Sin has changed since I studied back in 1984 or 85. But that still doesn't change the fact that I find some of the things about SD very suspicious. I've heard stories by SD students that say GM sin can jump up and sit on top of a basketball rim, I've heard SD students say he kicked the wall of Lexington Catholic gym at a tournament and made the WHOLE building shake, I've heard SD students brag that GM sin can use his metior fist to take someone out so fatst that he can be seated in the middle of a gymnasium go to the entrance and take someone out and be back in the middle of the gym floor without anyone seeing this being done. This has all come from SD students that I have met over the years. They all believe this to be true. And on top of that they say that the metior fist is so deadly that GM sin hasn't taught it to anyone. What do you have to say to these claims (all made by SD students)? One more thing, I have seen a SD student who was a black belt teach a tai chi form, supposedely the yang 24 form but it looked nothing like what I have seen anyone do. The guy's name was Wilbur. He teaches tai chi at Pikeville College in Pikeville Ky. VERY strange charactor. He believes he is the reincarnation of Hairy Man. He truely believes this. Do you know of him?

[Judge Pen]

At my school we go med. contact sometimes a little harder (between med. & full). Like I stated earlier maybe Sin has changed since I studied back in 1984 or 85. But that still doesn't change the fact that I find some of the things about SD very suspicious. I've heard stories by SD students that say GM sin can jump up and sit on top of a basketball rim, I've heard SD students say he kicked the wall of Lexington Catholic gym at a tournament and made the WHOLE building shake, I've heard SD students brag that GM sin can use his metior fist to take someone out so fatst that he can be seated in the middle of a gymnasium go to the entrance and take someone out and be back in the middle of the gym floor without anyone seeing this being done. This has all come from SD students that I have met over the years. They all believe this to be true. And on top of that they say that the metior fist is so deadly that GM sin hasn't taught it to anyone. What do you have to say to these claims (all made by SD students)?


I've never seen him do anything like that or claim that he can. So some random and unnamed students make outrageous claims about someone that the represent to be their teacher, and that means the man and the style are frauds? Hardly.

BTW, I head that John wingloc Ng could place a glass of water onto of a cinderblock, hit the glass of water, shatter the block and then drink the water from the unbroken glass. No lie: I heard that from a former student. Does that make Ng or his style a fraud? No, but it means he has a student telling outrageous tales.

Oh, BTW, he's taught me and many other meteor fist. It's a good form--one that will take me years to master if I ever do.

[chiballsoffire]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;802376] Here's some advice: GET LAID. I don't know how to put it plainer than that. IF you can't find a complying woman, get your buddy to give you a hand).

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

Everytime I read your post I can lay off my sit ups for at least 3 days.....thanks for the work out.;)
BQ

Since you're in a laughing mood, I thought I'd pass on some more funny stuff.

http://www.sinthe.com/index.html

Check out the school name....so once again....what is it you guys claim to do?

http://www.shaolin-do.com/pages/newsletter.php

More funny stories....do all you guys write like you speak? Ever heard of an editor? If you want to read the excerpts from the training manual go ahead. There you'll find the latest, different story about Ie.

http://www.grandmasterthe.com/index.html

Be sure to sit through the intro...great stuff.

And last, but not least....

http://www.shaolinlegends.com/media/volume_3_trailer.wmv

OK....while everyone (non-SD) is either howling with laughter or dumbfounded with disbelief, let's standby to read the time-honored BS excuses flow.

Oh wait I forgot...I need to post some emoticon at the bottom of post to express my feelings like some wet-as**d schoolgirl.

[mkriii]

You have part of the John Ng story right.....He can and I have seen him break a cynder block using a drinking glass without breaking the glass. He did not however have water in it or drink anything from it. This I have seen him do. Thats no made up story. I have had Dr. Ng break a cynder block that was resting on my chest while I was laying on the floor, have him take a sledge hammer and BARELY tap the block and it break into pieces. I checked out the cynder block before he broke it and it appeared to be legit and fine. He told me that he had channeled his chi through the sledge hammer to break the block. This was done to me personally. I have heard other stories but I will admitt that I have not seen them. For example I heard Dr. Ng can throw a playing card and make it stick in a water melon like a throwing star. Never saw this done, just heard about it. I have my doubts on that one though.

[kwaichang]

Chi BOF Karate literally translated as China Hand later became empty hand when the Japanese started doing Karate on the main island. As I said before anyone who associates with a man that introduces himself as GM Gray / Rusty that person is a joke and not to be taken seriously KC

[Judge Pen]

You have part of the John Ng story right.....He can and I have seen him break a cynder block using a drinking glass without breaking the glass. He did not however have water in it or drink anything from it. This I have seen him do. Thats no made up story. I have had Dr. Ng break a cynder block that was resting on my chest while I was laying on the floor, have him take a sledge hammer and BARELY tap the block and it break into pieces. I checked out the cynder block before he broke it and it appeared to be legit and fine. He told me that he had channeled his chi through the sledge hammer to break the block. This was done to me personally. I have heard other stories but I will admitt that I have not seen them. For example I heard Dr. Ng can throw a playing card and make it stick in a water melon like a throwing star. Never saw this done, just heard about it. I have my doubts on that one though.

I've seen my teacher do the same things sith the cinder block and the sledge hammer. It wasn't to me, but to his youngest son and his son was laying on a bed of nails. Fairly sharp nails. That is common. My point is that many of these types of stories get amplified in the telling and the retelling. Its the nature of telling tales in general and with regard to Chinese martial arts specifically. It's the equivilent of saying "my dad is stonger than your dad" or "my teacher can beat up your teacher"

[tattooedmonk]

So you got a brown belt In SD ?? Does this mean you got to brown belt and then quit??You saw all that SD was and is in that time period of study back in the early 80'S and have read few articles since then??

[mkriii]

I got my brown belt and yes I quit. The reason I quit was because I did not like it. A friend told me about 4 Season's and Dr. Ng so I went and checked it out. I liked it so I joined. I don't regret it in the least. I met life long friends there. I still train under Master Dufresne and have for almost 20 years.

[Judge Pen]

I got my brown belt and yes I quit. The reason I quit was because I did not like it. A friend told me about 4 Season's and Dr. Ng so I went and checked it out. I liked it so I joined. I don't regret it in the least. I met life long friends there. I still train under Master Dufresne and have for almost 20 years.

And there is nothing wrong with that. If you didn't like what you were doing and you went someplace else, then great! I'm happy for you! But why come back and og out of your way to talk bad about the art that you left after only a year or so in training while you were pre-teen?

[mkriii]

What does me being a pre teen have to do with anything? And I was a pre teen by one year, I was 12 or 13 years old. Thats old enough to determine if something isn't right. I immediately saw the difference in the 2 schools and you know what, I still see the difference. By the length of this thread and how many posts have been negative comments about SD apparentely a lot of other people question GM sin and SD. It's not just me. The sad thing is 95% of SD students are brainwashed into thinking that they are great martial artists. There are some good SD students but not many and I've seen a lot of them.

[Judge Pen]

What does me being a pre teen have to do with anything? And I was a pre teen by one year, I was 12 or 13 years old. Thats old enough to determine if something isn't right. I immediately saw the difference in the 2 schools and you know what, I still see the difference. By the length of this thread and how many posts have been negative comments about SD apparentely a lot of other people question GM sin and SD. It's not just me. The sad thing is 95% of SD students are brainwashed into thinking that they are great martial artists. There are some good SD students but not many and I've seen a lot of them.

Well, I've never claimed to be a great martial artist. And your age, like it or not, does affect the credibility since you were talking about the intensity of your classes. For liability reasons, many well respected schools hold back contact from minors unless there are consent forms signed by their guardians. That's common. You may have been very mature and perceptive for your age, but many others are not. How are we to know and discern the difference?

As for the length of this thread, no one has ever said SD and GM The are not controversial subjects. That doesn't make them right or wrong. You can't determine value or validity by internet referendum. Don't read to much into this, but many great people were ridiculed in their day. As were many fools. And vice versa. Public debate or controversy or ridicule mean nothing.

The fact that GM The and SD continue to thrive and grow in spite of the controversy and the unparalleled attacks is impressive. In a business that is market based and reliant upon the continual infusion of new blood (not just the old foogies like me who are invested) then you would think that an art of such claimed fraudulent and valueless worth would have withered up and blown away by now. I wonder why new people, with the ability to research things for themselves, keep coming in?

[Lamassu]

I like kool aid. :)

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Baqualin;802410]

Since you're in a laughing mood, I thought I'd pass on some more funny stuff.

http://www.sinthe.com/index.html

Check out the school name....so once again....what is it you guys claim to do?

http://www.shaolin-do.com/pages/newsletter.php

More funny stories....do all you guys write like you speak? Ever heard of an editor? If you want to read the excerpts from the training manual go ahead. There you'll find the latest, different story about Ie.

http://www.grandmasterthe.com/index.html

Be sure to sit through the intro...great stuff.

And last, but not least....

http://www.shaolinlegends.com/media/volume_3_trailer.wmv

OK....while everyone (non-SD) is either howling with laughter or dumbfounded with disbelief, let's standby to read the time-honored BS excuses flow.

Oh wait I forgot...I need to post some emoticon at the bottom of post to express my feelings like some wet-as**d schoolgirl.

:eek:Oh my God...where did you come up with all this new information...this changes everything...I see the light...Chi Balls are flying everywhere.....I'm moving to Ca. to train under you.....please help me keep my a$$ dry:p

[Baqualin]

Hey guys keep-em going...we're almost to 500
BQ

[Judge Pen]

Hey guys keep-em going...we're almost to 500
BQ

I'm at 718. But I was always advanced for my age. :cool:

[sean_stonehart]

I'm at 718. But I was always advanced for my age. :cool:

Is that was that is? I always heard it was related to shoe size...

****... only 479 ... :p:(

[Baqualin]

Is that was that is? I always heard it was related to shoe size...

****... only 479 ... :p:(

Hey Sean
Watch the emoticons...they will turn you into a wet a$$ed school girl.....see chi balls I'm learning already.
BQ

[mkriii]

judge pen.....I guess that the reason people keep coming in is because they are new to martial arts and don't know any better. Even the worst martial arts would look "cool" to someone new to it. As to the contact in sparring I've seen very few schools that don't allow contact. Hell, at Four Seasons after I left Sin The' the only required protective gear was a mouth piece, hand pads, and foot pads but we could sparr with out the foot pads if we wore tennis shoes. I was maybe 14 years old and we went pretty hard. I sparred the adults in the class and believe me I held my own pretty good. My teacher at Four Seasons was Tony McIntire. When Four Seasons closed I went to John Dufresne's school since John had been at Four Seasons. We sparred pretty much the same at International Kung Fu Academy (John's School), maybe a little lighter but not much. They never had a problem with any one getting seriously injured. A few bumps but that was it.

[sean_stonehart]

Hey Sean
Watch the emoticons...they will turn you into a wet a$$ed school girl.....see chi balls I'm learning already.
BQ

Oh right... well I'm ex-SD so by their reasoning, I'm immune so :p ... maybe... I dunno... :mad:

[chiballsoffire]

[QUOTE=chiballsoffire;802436]

:eek:Oh my God...where did you come up with all this new information...this changes everything...I see the light...Chi Balls are flying everywhere.....I'm moving to Ca. to train under you.....please help me keep my a$$ dry:p

So in addition to the short bus dropping you off here everyday (every, single godd*** day), your also completely self-centered. Guess what....no one's trying to get you and the other Sin The groupies to see the light. No one cares if you see the light.

The only silver lining to interacting with you is the hope that new people investigating SD will discover (before their cultification) that there are any number of problems that remain unexplained.

From what you've previously said you stated you were an instructor in the SD internal program......and this is how you spend your free time? That in and of itself is an indictment of at least the school where you teach.

[Lamassu]

From what you've previously said you stated you were an instructor in the SD internal program......and this is how you spend your free time? That in and of itself is an indictment of at least the school where you teach.

Indictment? You don't know what that word means do you.

[Shaolin Wookie]

ummm....MMA clubs are usually full-contact MMA. Otherwise, they aren't MMA clubs. Most people who train MMA never intend on fighting outside of class.

You can train MMA safely..though sometimes sh1t just happens.

No. Not full-contact. You wear gloves, you hit hard, but you're not trying to "hurt" and "put-down" your classmates, or you would not have any classmates.

You go full-contact on the night of the fight. You're out to hurt someone and put them down.




Well, Chuck can clearly be seen on www.thepit.tv wearing a black Gi and teaching kids. He obviously is a LARPer, too.


You said it. Not me. Chuck, don't hurt 'em.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I've heard stories by SD students that say GM sin can jump up and sit on top of a basketball rim,

I saw him do it. You wouldn't think it, but GM Sin has mad hops. He went for a windmill, but jumped too high, and wound up sitting on the rim. Technically, it's offensive interference. But we didn't know how to referee it, since he was the one on offense, and was the one that committed the offense.


I've heard SD students say he kicked the wall of Lexington Catholic gym at a tournament and made the WHOLE building shake,

It's true. Of course, that was the year of the infamous Lexington earthquake, so we're still not sure if it was the earthquake, or if the kick started the earthquake.


I've heard SD students brag that GM sin can use his metior fist to take someone out so fatst that he can be seated in the middle of a gymnasium go to the entrance and take someone out and be back in the middle of the gym floor without anyone seeing this being done.

No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. He can take someone out back, behind the gymnasium, where nobody can see, knock someone out, and then go back and take a seat in the gymnasium.


This has all come from SD students that I have met over the years. They all believe this to be true. And on top of that they say that the metior fist is so deadly that GM sin hasn't taught it to anyone.

Sure, he's teaching it now.


What do you have to say to these claims (all made by SD students)?

Same thing I say to people who pick bones with 'em on the internet over their harrows as SD brown belts: Get over it, dude. Put down the weed. Charlie is not in the bushes.

Oh, there are stories like that at every school. Usually more tame. Sometimes, not so much.


One more thing, I have seen a SD student who was a black belt teach a tai chi form, supposedely the yang 24 form but it looked nothing like what I have seen anyone do. The guy's name was Wilbur. He teaches tai chi at Pikeville College in Pikeville Ky. VERY strange charactor. He believes he is the reincarnation of Hairy Man. He truely believes this. Do you know of him?

Look at my avatar. I AM HIM, B1TCH!

[mkriii]

Yeah, well look at your location......perm. state of denial. Thats for sure. That describes you to a tee. Your in denial about SD and how bad SD students are. But hey, if doing SD makes them feel good and gives SD students that sense of false security that they need then more power to them. Whatever floats your boat. I my self would rather learn a martial art that doesn't have so much skepticism surrounding it or an art that people don't make fun of. I'd rather study an art that people respect and won't snicker at. I'd rather study a martial art that people don't make for thier punch line of some joke. But hey, thats just me. If you like all that stuff I just said then SD is the m.a. for you.

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Baqualin;802476]

So in addition to the short bus dropping you off here everyday (every, single godd*** day), your also completely self-centered.

Looks like we have something in common and yes I'm self-centered....it's part of my Baqua training...what's your excuse?

Guess what....no one's trying to get you and the other Sin The groupies to see the light. No one cares if you see the light.

I would have never guessed that

The only silver lining to interacting with you is the hope that new people investigating SD will discover (before their cultification) that there are any number of problems that remain unexplained.

Why do you care so much about something you no nothing about other than what you read on here? Also, who made you the manager of the martial arts world

From what you've previously said you stated you were an instructor in the SD internal program
Yes I am and I care very much about my students...the're not taught any voodoo and no sacrifices to Wookie idols
......and this is how you spend your free time?
I'm at work Dude...I'm on company time....what are you doing on here????
That in and of itself is an indictment of at least the school where you teach.

Since you are on here, what does that say about you???
BQ



jl;gadfternvueignerui

[kungfujunky]

i thought he said he was done?

huh

[Baqualin]

Hey JP,
I wonder if mkrii is the one who taught the wushu player on the National Geographic special some of our basic forms??? I also wonder why he used our forms instead of what he learned directly from them...since ours are sh!t??
BQ

[mkriii]

Do you believe everything that someone tells you? I lied. I'm not done. Oh wait, you do beleive everything people tell you because you believe GM Sin and his far fetched story of the lineage of his art coming from a man covered in hair. And how I Chang Meng had to flee the country for not spit shining a soldiers shoe and he killed the soldier and a bounty was put on his head. And when he got to this other country he had to disquise his kung fu so no one would know who he is. If you believe this story then I have some prime realistate down in South Florida I'd love to sell to you at a really good price.

[Baqualin]

Yeah, well look at your location......perm. state of denial. Thats for sure. That describes you to a tee. Your in denial about SD and how bad SD students are. But hey, if doing SD makes them feel good and gives SD students that sense of false security that they need then more power to them. Whatever floats your boat. I my self would rather learn a martial art that doesn't have so much skepticism surrounding it or an art that people don't make fun of. I'd rather study an art that people respect and won't snicker at. I'd rather study a martial art that people don't make for thier punch line of some joke. But hey, thats just me. If you like all that stuff I just said then SD is the m.a. for you.

OK Mr. mkrii,
You live in the same town as me....come and see me as a fellow MA....not a challenge to fight, but to touch hands...share a little knowledge.....we have students from our school who work out with students from your old school all the time...they don't laugh at us......come see for yourself how horrible & misleading I am........then you can come on here and tell everyone how my Tai Chi, Baqua, & Hsingi $ucks

[BM2]

846 grains of rice, you were one off. Guess your not excepted.

Everyone has witnessed my poor spelling and grammar, I put it out there for the world to see it. Somehow it is still funny to watch a troll being so high and mighty making a grade school spelling mistake:p
Dude, it should have been ACCEPTED:D
Back to the schoolyard debate and name calling;)

[mkriii]

Baqualin....I have a serious question. The yang short form that you do does not look anything like what I have seen other people do as yang short form. Can you please explain where your form comes from and why it is different than all the other people that do yang short form.

[Baqualin]

Baqualin....I have a serious question. The yang short form that you do does not look anything like what I have seen other people do as yang short form. Can you please explain where your form comes from and why it is different than all the other people that do yang short form.

It's not different (not really a Yang form either...it's a combination form). Have you seen me do it? It comes from PRC...it's the most common form done in China today

[mkriii]

No but I have seen a few SD people do it and it looks totally different. They start out by going up on their toes as they raise their hands straight out in front of them and then bringing their hands down and then they have their hands in front of their chest as if holding a ball (right hand over left hand), then they turn to the left and press out with left hand while the right hand follows it. Then they go back to hold the ball in front of them and then they turn to the right and do the same thing as they did on the left side. I have never seen yang short form done like this. The guy that did this was a guy named Wilbur and he teaches tai chi at Pikeville College in Eastern Kentucky. He is real country acting and has a serious twang when he talks. He has about 5 students from the college that he teaches. He told me that he thinks he is the reincarnation of Hairy Man. He really believes this, I swear.

[Lamassu]

Baqualin....I have a serious question. The yang short form that you do does not look anything like what I have seen other people do as yang short form. Can you please explain where your form comes from and why it is different than all the other people that do yang short form.

Baqualin,

mkriii is obviously a coward because he won't take your offer to trade hands, instead he'll steer the conversation to more bullsh!t like what's posted above. He talks a lot of smack but in the end, he's a weak snivelling coward who wont back up his taunts with a real show of mastery.

mkriii,

You are a coward who is afraid of Shaolin Do students, because you know they can kick your a$$!

[Judge Pen]

I lied.

Glad to know it: You're a liar by your own admission. Go do push-ups over broken glass or something.

[Baqualin]

Baqualin,

mkriii is obviously a coward because he won't take your offer to trade hands, instead he'll steer the conversation to more bullsh!t like what's posted above. He talks a lot of smack but in the end, he's a weak snivelling coward who wont back up his taunts with a real show of mastery.

mkriii,

You are a coward who is afraid of Shaolin Do students, because you know they can kick your a$$!

I not trying to pick a fight.....I'm to old for that anyway...I only want him to show me what I'm doing so wrong and to see were not full of BS.....hell maybe he can teach me something....I'm always open to new things.

[Lamassu]

I not trying to pick a fight.....I'm to old for that anyway...I only want him to show me what I'm doing so wrong and to see were not full of BS.....hell maybe he can teach me something....I'm always open to new things.

Precisely my point, he won't step up. I'm not saying you want to fight, but you do want to see what he's got since he's being so critical of your technique. Most of these trolls/cowards talk a lot of sh!t but won't even own up so much as say what style they learn or post videos of themselves doing forms or even meet up with an SD student and see for themselves what we're capable of.

No, you don't want to fight, and I never thought for a second you did, but mkriii is still a coward because he's afraid you may end up teaching him something useful.

[KungFu Student]

Do you believe everything that someone tells you? I lied.

What I don't understand is how he has been ragging on us about our "far fetched stories", and then he admits to being a liar. So how can we trust anything he says as truthful? What a hypocrite.

[mkriii]

Lamassu.....If you are such the man and I'm the coward then why don't you come to me here in Lexington. It seems to me your the one that is trying to instigate a fight by calling me a coward and other names. If you notice I haven't called any one any names. I might have made comments about your style but I haven't called anyone any names.

[Baqualin]

No but I have seen a few SD people do it and it looks totally different. They start out by going up on their toes as they raise their hands straight out in front of them and then bringing their hands down and then they have their hands in front of their chest as if holding a ball (right hand over left hand), then they turn to the left and press out with left hand while the right hand follows it. Then they go back to hold the ball in front of them and then they turn to the right and do the same thing as they did on the left side. I have never seen yang short form done like this. The guy that did this was a guy named Wilbur and he teaches tai chi at Pikeville College in Eastern Kentucky. He is real country acting and has a serious twang when he talks. He has about 5 students from the college that he teaches. He told me that he thinks he is the reincarnation of Hairy Man. He really believes this, I swear.

Once again, it's not a Yang form.....have you heard of Liang Shou-Yu....we teach it pretty much the same way as he does with a few minor differences.
BQ

[mkriii]

No, he is calling what he teaches yang 24 because I actually had him teach me this form. I was going to his class for about 2 or 3 months before I realized it was not the yang short form.

[mkriii]

Baqualin.....I tell you what, I will meet with you to discuss whatever you want to discuss just to show these others that I'm not a coward. Maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong about SD. By the way, that Tai Chi form that this guy taught me wasn't to bad. The reason I stopped going to him is because I realized it was not a yang form like he had been telling everyone and I thought he was either making it up or he didn't know what he was teaching. Maybe what he was teaching was legit but it was not the yang short form like he said it was. Why don't you teach me this form that he was trying to teach me if you say you know it. That way you can show me what SD is about.

[chiballsoffire]

LMFAO.....I knew it would only take a few sharp verbal jabs at you SD pinheads about your conman teacher before you'd let loose with the threats.

The forum for settling these types of grudges is at an open tournament. Now I know you SD types rarely ever show up at a non-SD event because you're just too deadly to mix with us mere mortals. So Lamassu and Baqualin, if you're so eager to 'learn,' set the meeting for an open event. There are plenty around the country. Personally I think this mkriii person is a couple of beers short of a six-pack, but if you're prepared to call someone a coward, then you need to be prepared to back it up.

And in spite of his odd comments and posts, mkriii hasn't threatened anyone on this forum yet.

Hey Baqualin.....I saw your original reply yesterday.....it was sad and pathetic. "I'm just a guy at work who wants to....." Waaahhhhh! Now the updated, hostile reponse. If I knew where you worked I'd drop a Roosevelt dime on your a** to your boss about stealing from the company. Because that's what you're doing. When you use company property, and spent time the company is paying you to make your adolescent comments and threats, you're stealing from your firm. (I think the veiled threat to mkriii on a company computer should be grounds to have you fired.)

[Baqualin]

No, he is calling what he teaches yang 24 because I actually had him teach me this form. I was going to his class for about 2 or 3 months before I realized it was not the yang short form.

It's Tai Chi 24....not yang short form....the same form Liang Shou-yu and millions of Chinese do....it's a beginners form.

[Lamassu]

mkriii,

Okay I just saw your post to Baqualin, I respect you for taking up his offer and retract calling you a coward. You are not a coward. That wasn't so hard was it?

[mkriii]

Chiballsoffire.......I am a few beers short of a six pack. Sometimes I forget to take my meds. Right now I'm trying to wean myself off of the lithium and xanax but those valiums are a B**** to get off of without help.

[MasterKiller]

When you use company property, and spent time the company is paying you to make your adolescent comments and threats, you're stealing from your firm. (I think the veiled threat to mkriii on a company computer should be grounds to have you fired.) If that's the case, I should have been fired about 8 years ago...:eek:

[Judge Pen]

chiballs of fire, where do you train in L.A.? I'm out that way at least once a year, I wouldn't mind checking out your school. The internet is hardly the place to get to know somoneone or learn anything about their style. I'd be glad to show you my understanding of SD. Do you think that would be ok and without the conversation devolving into personal comments etc.?

[Lamassu]

Hey Baqualin..... If I knew where you worked I'd drop a Roosevelt dime on your a** to your boss about stealing from the company. Because that's what you're doing. When you use company property, and spent time the company is paying you to make your adolescent comments and threats, you're stealing from your firm. (I think the veiled threat to mkriii on a company computer should be grounds to have you fired.)

You don't have a job, do you?

[Baqualin]

LMFAO.....I knew it would only take a few sharp verbal jabs at you SD pinheads about your conman teacher before you'd let loose with the threats.

The forum for settling these types of grudges is at an open tournament. Now I know you SD types rarely ever show up at a non-SD event because you're just too deadly to mix with us mere mortals. So Lamassu and Baqualin, if you're so eager to 'learn,' set the meeting for an open event. There are plenty around the country. Personally I think this mkriii person is a couple of beers short of a six-pack, but if you're prepared to call someone a coward, then you need to be prepared to back it up.

And in spite of his odd comments and posts, mkriii hasn't threatened anyone on this forum yet.

Hey Baqualin.....I saw your original reply yesterday.....it was sad and pathetic. "I'm just a guy at work who wants to....." Waaahhhhh! Now the updated, hostile reponse. If I knew where you worked I'd drop a Roosevelt dime on your a** to your boss about stealing from the company. Because that's what you're doing. When you use company property, and spent time the company is paying you to make your adolescent comments and threats, you're stealing from your firm. (I think the veiled threat to mkriii on a company computer should be grounds to have you fired.)

It's my company A$$hole....and I didn't threaten anybody...I invited mkrii to visit in a friendly way. And yes my original reply was pathetic, because I let you get under my skin and I'm above that....my updated response was not hostile...you need to learn how to read dude and lose the I'm better than thou attitude

[mkriii]

so how about it Baqualin? PM me about how I can get in touch with you and we'll set a time and place to meet and trade hands as you call it.

[The Willow Sword]

i dont know who this Mkriii is and certainly do not know who chiballs of fire is. i have been reading and viewing the last few pages and am rolling my eyes and laughing at the same time.

As to the notion that SD'ers do not go to open tourneys outside their own, well that is simply not true. when I WAS a loyal Sd'er several of us went to an AAU sponsored kung fu tournament and took away some medals and i actually WON the Mens advanced sparring(hehe it wasnt anything special though because i won by default because the other guy decided that he wanted to strike at my throat,his dumb a$$ got disqualified right away). Anyway the sd'ers DO go to other tourneys,HOWEVER,it would be interesting to see if the SD'ers would go to tourneys like Taichi legacy and some of the big ones and show their stuff.

PEACE,TWS

[sean_stonehart]

Next golden snake master...

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Asia/China_Swimming_Girl.html

[Judge Pen]

Anyway the sd'ers DO go to other tourneys,HOWEVER,it would be interesting to see if the SD'ers would go to tourneys like Taichi legacy and some of the big ones and show their stuff. I've thought abou it, but I'm always visiting family on my vacation time. Not enough time and too many obligations. If my daughter takes a liking to kung fu, then I would encourage her to participate in the larger tournaments. Then I'll show you all! :cool:

[Baqualin]

so how about it Baqualin? PM me about how I can get in touch with you and we'll set a time and place to meet and trade hands as you call it.

You got it......don't pay any attention to Chi Ball Head he's just a douche bag.

[Judge Pen]

Next golden snake master...

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Asia/China_Swimming_Girl.html

:eek: I wonder if she did it with her pecs.

[mkriii]

What I said was very few SD students compete and that GM Sin frowns apon competing other than his tournaments. I have seen maybe 3 SD students during the many years that I used to compete on the NASKA circuit. Niether one of the three even placed in their forms division.

[mkriii]

Next golden snake master? That is to funny. If she climbs a pole while bound then she can have the title of GM.

[Baqualin]

What I said was very few SD students compete and that GM Sin frowns apon competing other than his tournaments. I have seen maybe 3 SD students during the many years that I used to compete on the NASKA circuit. Niether one of the three even placed in their forms division.

GM Sin really doesn't frown about that at all...you've been misinformed there.

[Baqualin]

Next golden snake master...

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Asia/China_Swimming_Girl.html

Everyone made fun of GMS about this and it turns out even a girl can do it.....I'm like JP, I want to see if she's using her pec's

[Judge Pen]

What I said was very few SD students compete and that GM Sin frowns apon competing other than his tournaments. I have seen maybe 3 SD students during the many years that I used to compete on the NASKA circuit. Niether one of the three even placed in their forms division.

You sound surprised that they placed. :eek:

[The Willow Sword]

and you all have it here in writing.

we all know how i feel about SD lineage and why i left, and i KNOW that there are a lot of good people at sd. i have regretted alot of my hostility in the past and i have posted to that many times here. but i will say right now that i do not wish to b!tch and moan any longer about it. it is bringing me down and giving me an ulcer.
so from now on starting TODAY, i am going to refrain from posting my depressive dribble and try to actually contribute and objectively post opinions and thoughts regarding things here should i feel the need to do so.
it is weird because reading mkriii's posts and actually feeling embarrased by them(dont ask me why, i just feel that way) it gives me an insight into how better i should conduct myself in a forum setting. plus i am getting older and i really shouldnt resort to white trash bickering. I still have my brand of pr!ckly humour that i know ill never go away(its just a part of who i am). i just want to get rid of the poor me i was duped and i am bitter about it,mentality.

my message to mkriii is "whatever you feel is a thorn in your side regarding SD and the lineage and history, PULL IT OUT." "You can still conduct yourself in a manner that is honorable to yourself and your fellow colleagues,regardless of what they study and what they buy into."

Peace,TWS

[mkriii]

Why is it that I have not seen hardly any SD people compete? I competed both nationally and regionally. I've been to tournaments all over the country. I have been to Anthony Price's tournament in Cinci, The Bowling Green Classic, The Bluegrass Nationals in Louisville (may Ken Eubanks rest in peace, he was a great man), Capitol City Classic in D.C. , AKA Grand Nationals in Chicago, and many others and have only seen 2 SD people, maybe 3 SDers.

[arinathos.valin]

mkriii,

To answer your question about the Taiji short form, the form that SD does is indeed the PRC 24 move short form. The way I learned it when I was taking SD is very close to other performances of the 24 move form by 'reputable' sources like Liang Shou-Yu (excepting some minor stylistic differences).

What you describe seems to resemble the Yang "64 move" form taught by SD, AKA the Cheng Man Ching (Zheng ManQing) 37 move form. One can find YouTube clips of the form done by Cheng himself and others of high skill and compare the two.

I don't know whether the person you observed mixed up his forms, or combined the two in his mind or what....

There ya go...

BTW... does someone get a prize if they're the first person to post on the 500th page?

[mkriii]

http://softanswertaichi.com/cheng-style/cheng-man-ching-simplified-yang-style-tai-chi.html

I assume this is the form you are referring to?
This form looks good. I think I want to learn it. I'm serious.

[Baqualin]

i dont know who this Mkriii is and certainly do not know who chiballs of fire is. i have been reading and viewing the last few pages and am rolling my eyes and laughing at the same time.

As to the notion that SD'ers do not go to open tourneys outside their own, well that is simply not true. when I WAS a loyal Sd'er several of us went to an AAU sponsored kung fu tournament and took away some medals and i actually WON the Mens advanced sparring(hehe it wasnt anything special though because i won by default because the other guy decided that he wanted to strike at my throat,his dumb a$$ got disqualified right away). Anyway the sd'ers DO go to other tourneys,HOWEVER,it would be interesting to see if the SD'ers would go to tourneys like Taichi legacy and some of the big ones and show their stuff.

PEACE,TWS

I don't have the time to participate in Tourney's.....But, that's one I plan to do before I get to old.....if for nothing else to meet a lot of great people.
BQ

[Judge Pen]

Why is it that I have not seen hardly any SD people compete? I competed both nationally and regionally. I've been to tournaments all over the country. I have been to Anthony Price's tournament in Cinci, The Bowling Green Classic, The Bluegrass Nationals in Louisville (may Ken Eubanks rest in peace, he was a great man), Capitol City Classic in D.C. , AKA Grand Nationals in Chicago, and many others and have only seen 2 SD people, maybe 3 SDers.

I can't speak for anyone other than me. But I've never been told or discouraged from competing in a tournament.

I think some west coast CSC schools do discourage their students from competing in open tournaments, but I'm basing that on what someone has said here on this forum. I don't know if its true or not.

[Judge Pen]

http://softanswertaichi.com/cheng-style/cheng-man-ching-simplified-yang-style-tai-chi.html

I assume this is the form you are referring to?
This form looks good. I think I want to learn it. I'm serious.

Yes, this form is virtually identical to our tai chi 64.

Oh, I thought "just do it" was by Nike, not John Ng. :p

[Baqualin]

http://softanswertaichi.com/cheng-style/cheng-man-ching-simplified-yang-style-tai-chi.html

I assume this is the form you are referring to?
This form looks good. I think I want to learn it. I'm serious.

Call me you have my # .
BQ

[The Willow Sword]

this is a bad thing that i now have internet at work,LOL!!!!


TWS

[Baqualin]

this is a bad thing that i now have internet at work,LOL!!!!


TWS

Watch out for chiballs he will rat you out;)
BQ

[sean_stonehart]

Yes, this form is virtually identical to our tai chi 64.

Oh, I thought "just do it" was by Nike, not John Ng. :p

It is CMC's. It's his answer to not wanting to practice the full Yang Family 108 step set. He said it himself one time.

[The Willow Sword]

Watch out for chiballs he will rat you out
BQ


yeah like it would make any difference:D. it is boring as hell here. i work at a, of all places, a tanning salon,LOL:D. it is in a wealthy part of town and no-one hardly comes in. i just sit here in limbo thinking about when i am going to get my license to practice MT and start making better money(next week actually is when i take my licensing test, then i can leave the tanning salon behind), sheesh the places i have worked over the years:rolleyes:

Peace,TWS

[Judge Pen]

yeah like it would make any difference:D. it is boring as hell here. i work at a, of all places, a tanning salon,LOL:D. it is in a wealthy part of town and no-one hardly comes in. i just sit here in limbo thinking about when i am going to get my license to practice MT and start making better money(next week actually is when i take my licensing test, then i can leave the tanning salon behind), sheesh the places i have worked over the years:rolleyes:

Peace,TWS

I hope the clients are at least good looking....

[The Willow Sword]

I hope the clients are at least good looking....



Hot lookin snobby rich women, it dont git no better.:cool:

TWS

[Judge Pen]

Hot lookin snobby rich women, it dont git no better.:cool:

TWS

It does if they are looking to slum with the guy behind the counter at the tanning salon.

[arinathos.valin]

mkrii

A few things regarding the CMC 37 form for you...

I've learned the PRC 24 form, the CMC 37 (Yang 64 as per SD) and the Yang 108 when I was younger. Although the CMC form is considered a distillation of the Yang 108, some people consider it a different style altogether, because of a high emphasis on relaxation, neutralizing force, and uprooting. This is in contrast to the Chen style, which still has obvious fajin within the form.

If you're interested in "Cheng style", I'd encourage you to look up anything by Nigel Sutton, a proponent of the Chinese arts, especially Cheng Taiji. In his book "Finding the Way", he talks about many of his Malaysian teachers who were not afraid to take the principles of Cheng's practice into challenge matches and tourneys, with impressive results. Robert Smith, one of the first Westerners to really pursue the Asian martial arts, singles out CMC for particular praise, and he wasn't afraid to call out BS when he saw it...

One caveat... I don't think it's too hard to find someone who teaches the Cheng version of Yang Taiji, but be careful about the teacher. By most accounts, Cheng was so skilled at the ability to neutralize an opponent's force and uproot them while remaining relaxed, that he rarely had to resort to anything else. I think there are many teachers of the Cheng style who push this 'relaxation' idea to the extreme without focusing on proper stance and body mechanics. You'll wind up with the equivalent of a plate of spaghetti that's been boiled for an hour... very limp and relaxed, but completely lacking in substance...

There are a few good YouTube clips out there of the Cheng form to look at... also take a look at some offerings by a guy named Sam Masich (does Yang/Chen Taiji and Xingyi, but there's also a DVD available of a Cheng Stylist that looks pretty good...)

[mkriii]

Yes, NIKE has the saying just do it but back in the day (80's) when we would be doing wu shu and trying some new "trick" and scared to try it Jiohn Ng would always yell Just do it. It was fuuny because he had that chinese accent and it would sound like he was saying just doeeet. Kind of a joke amongst us John Ng students.

[tattooedmonk]

just rolling along here........boy this thread just brings them out of the woodwork

[tattooedmonk]

I live in the LA area and would be more than happy to meet with you and cross hands.

[Baqualin]

I live in the LA area and would be more than happy to meet with you and cross hands.

I figured that was coming:D....where you been hiding?
BQ

[tattooedmonk]

I figured that was coming:D....where you been hiding?
BQ You should have!:D......been busy.:cool:

[Baqualin]

mkrii

A few things regarding the CMC 37 form for you...

I've learned the PRC 24 form, the CMC 37 (Yang 64 as per SD) and the Yang 108 when I was younger. Although the CMC form is considered a distillation of the Yang 108, some people consider it a different style altogether, because of a high emphasis on relaxation, neutralizing force, and uprooting. This is in contrast to the Chen style, which still has obvious fajin within the form.

If you're interested in "Cheng style", I'd encourage you to look up anything by Nigel Sutton, a proponent of the Chinese arts, especially Cheng Taiji. In his book "Finding the Way", he talks about many of his Malaysian teachers who were not afraid to take the principles of Cheng's practice into challenge matches and tourneys, with impressive results. Robert Smith, one of the first Westerners to really pursue the Asian martial arts, singles out CMC for particular praise, and he wasn't afraid to call out BS when he saw it...

One caveat... I don't think it's too hard to find someone who teaches the Cheng version of Yang Taiji, but be careful about the teacher. By most accounts, Cheng was so skilled at the ability to neutralize an opponent's force and uproot them while remaining relaxed, that he rarely had to resort to anything else. I think there are many teachers of the Cheng style who push this 'relaxation' idea to the extreme without focusing on proper stance and body mechanics. You'll wind up with the equivalent of a plate of spaghetti that's been boiled for an hour... very limp and relaxed, but completely lacking in substance...

There are a few good YouTube clips out there of the Cheng form to look at... also take a look at some offerings by a guy named Sam Masich (does Yang/Chen Taiji and Xingyi, but there's also a DVD available of a Cheng Stylist that looks pretty good...)

Hey A

Very true & very good advice....stop by sometimes.....made it through Pakua spear at the tourney...screwed up hip and all;)
BQ

[chiballsoffire]

I live in the LA area and would be more than happy to meet with you and cross hands.

I accept your challenge and as the person challenged I am allowed to pick the time and place:

13 October, Saturday at 10:00 am

Lincoln Park, 7th and Wilshire

Bring a second....any more, any less and I walk away.

Taiwan rules (look it up).

[Yao Sing]

I accept your challenge and as the person challenged I am allowed to pick the time and place:

13 October, Saturday at 10:00 am

Lincoln Park, 7th and Wilshire

Bring a second....any more, any less and I walk away.

Taiwan rules (look it up).

Will there be video?

Knifefighter, you in that area?

[tattooedmonk]

I accept your challenge and as the person challenged I am allowed to pick the time and place:

13 October, Saturday at 10:00 am

Lincoln Park, 7th and Wilshire

Bring a second....any more, any less and I walk away.

Taiwan rules (look it up).
What are you an idiot?? I asked if you wanted to crosshands and have some fun.

challenge ??

I did not challenge you .

And usually these things are discussed . Not just you tell me when and where .

I have a life you know.

I know you will not show anyway.

The rest of this can be discussed in a PM. Moron.

[kwaichang]

I challenge you all and as the challenger I pick the Moon yeah thats the ticket Ill see you all there. KC

[kungfujunky]

wow

chiballs is some kind of gunfighter from the old west

nice!

hey tm id be your second if it was really necessary although i am in colorado

i just want to watch the fun!

hey kc

i accept! ill meet you there lol

[kwaichang]

Chiballsoffire hey man you study Hung Gar for 8 years and you feel compelled to accept a challenge I have a 2.5 year old you can fight but you have to sign a death waver. and You cant sue me when he kicks your a$$ KC

[BM2]

:DThis thread has gone Jerry Springer again!

[Judge Pen]

:DThis thread has gone Jerry Springer again!

Instead of chanting "JERRY, JERRY" we should all chant "GENE, GENE, GENE, GENE" :p

[Judge Pen]

Let's see, chiballs recently registered, has all of 11 posts, and all his posts have been here in the SD thread. Hmmmm..... Do you think he's a troll just having a bit of fun?

[MasterKiller]

Why do people who supposedly study other systems (ie HunGar,CKF,NLongfist
& Mantis) only want to post on a thread named " Is Shao lin Do For Real??
OTD

Why do you slow down to look at car accidents you were not involved in?

[arinathos.valin]

A slight correction to my post on "Cheng Style" Taiji...

The book I was referring to by Nigel Sutton was "Searching for the Way"... not "Finding the Way".

Don't know if anyone really cares about that, but if someone was searching for the book, the right title might be of help...I thought the book was excellent.

BQ...I still haven't forgotten about the invite. Good to hear things went well at the tourney!

Regarding recent posts...have to admit I didn't find much in the way of a challenge in TM's post. Perhaps it was the way he TYPED it? Let's just cool it on the egos and just learn from each other...

[Baqualin]

Hey JP
Did you get the Yang side of Meteor Fist this time around.
BQ

[mkriii]

Good morning everyone. How are all my SD friends doing? All is good here. Whats new Baqualin? Did I here you went to a tournament? How was it?

[mkriii]

This might come as a shock to some of you but I did some reflecting last night on some things that I have said and I would just like to appolagize for any negative comments I might have said.

[Baqualin]

This might come as a shock to some of you but I did some reflecting last night on some things that I have said and I would just like to appolagize for any negative comments I might have said.

Good morning to you too mkrii....all is good and hope no one has insulted you!!!!....the tourney was just our fall gathering here in Lex. and I was speaking about the demo I did on Baqua Spear.
BQ

[mkriii]

So where do you guys hold your fall tournament? Iwish I had known about it so I could have come and watched it.

[DPL]

I accept your challenge and as the person challenged I am allowed to pick the time and place:

13 October, Saturday at 10:00 am

Lincoln Park, 7th and Wilshire

Bring a second....any more, any less and I walk away.

Taiwan rules (look it up).

Looks like it's time to update the KFM Glossary.

Chiballsofmilk - 'cross hands' is something you offer to do with someone in order to learn, exchange ideas, etc.

Doofus.

Taiwan rules but Cleveland ROCKS!

[mkriii]

My question is this...Is Shaolin Do Karate the same as Shaolin Kung Fu? If it is, then your saying that what you teach has no other arts (japanese, korean, etc...) mixed in with it. What you teach is all Chinese?

[Judge Pen]

Hey JP
Did you get the Yang side of Meteor Fist this time around.
BQ

So far just the first 8 rounds. I'll learn "cannon rocks the leg" from my teachers.

[Judge Pen]

My question is this...Is Shaolin Do Karate the same as Shaolin Kung Fu? If it is, then your saying that what you teach has no other arts (japanese, korean, etc...) mixed in with it. What you teach is all Chinese?

To my understanding its all chinese as filtered through indonesia and the kentucky. I don't know if it was "mixed" with somthing else. It has taken on its own unique "flavor" for various reasons.

[tattooedmonk]

Why do people who supposedly study other systems (ie HunGar,CKF,NLongfist
& Mantis) only want to post on a thread named " Is Shao lin Do For Real??

Don't they have any respect from their own style or styles to inter-act with?

70-80% of the posts are from other people, who blatenly speak out that
they don't want to learn anything from SD yet in fact by posting on this
thread they are the biggest proponent of SD???

Just curious

SD: "Hey TCMA, whaddya say?"
TCMA: "Any new converts today?"
SD: "Nay Nay Nay"
TCMA: "Send in the trolls!!"
OTDHMM very good question. probably because they get tired of getting trashed on by MMA guys. This helps them feel better about themselves and what they do.;):eek::D:cool::p

[sean_stonehart]

HMM very good question. probably because they get tired of getting trashed on by MMA guys. This helps them feel better about themselves and what they do.;):eek::D:cool::p

Ummmm.... wouldn't you fall into that too? Kettle? Black? Much??

[Shaolin Wookie]

My question is this...Is Shaolin Do Karate the same as Shaolin Kung Fu? If it is, then your saying that what you teach has no other arts (japanese, korean, etc...) mixed in with it. What you teach is all Chinese?

#1-Same thing.

#2-It's my personal opinion that it contains influences from Indonesian and Malaysian MA's like Kuntao, Silat, and yes, perhaps even a little karate. But I would say that those influences would be small. Being such as the lineage travels through Chinese Buddhists, I'd see it unlikely that MA's like Silat, which have strong native ties to Islam, would comingle without much ado. In terms of kuntao, I'd assume, that as GGM Ie was teaching Chinese students in Indonesia, his students probably picked up some kuntao trimmings here and there from each other and from friends outside the Chinese community, and some of these developed in the system. It's ultimately ignorant to assume it could remain unchanged. Shaolin in China couldn't even claim to remain unchanged. When we look at how traditional Shaolin schools developed in Vietnam, Korea, and other outlying Asian countries after various migrations of Chinese MA's, we see similar (what we might be tempted to call) "watering-downs" or "differences", but are simply geographical, artistic differences, or differences in interpretation. In terms of karate, the structure of the teachings is presented in the fashion of karate. Take the ippon kumite, for instance. I saw these done in Okinawan karate in the Peachtree-Dunwoody area in a class run by a guy that taught traditional karate in a local gym (very affordable, very good teaching....and as a side note, he and his entire class was learning Hung Gar at the time from a local Chinese sifu.) Our ippon-kumite were very different from theirs. The method of movement and blocking was different. The method of retaliation was different (ultimately the same, since you wind up hitting someone, LOL). But I would say that ours were based more on Chinese principles of fighting (in my varied CMA experiences), which are rather different than JMA principles (which are often more direct and linear). Still, the structure of presentation--A punches, B blocks/moves, is the same structure of retaliation. So ippon-kumite, whether this is one of those "Japanese trimmings" the SD canon purports was used to throw off the govt. LOL:D, or whether it is just some approximation to name the one-step techniques, who knows? Who cares?

#3-Karate is a generic term, even in karate. Shorin-ryu karate is Shaolin Karate, but even then, it's only Shaolin Fujien crane karate. So even that label is inaccurate. Shaolin Do Karate/Kung-fu (depending on who's advertising it) is identifiably kung-fu. Sure, some of our craptastic vids on the net don't necessarily display this, but those on M. Grooms' private channel do. But it would be hard to label the other, craptastic ones, as karate either. I give props to anyone who puts themselves out there on the net, so I'm not gonna diss any of 'em, not even the "Dancing Queen" tiger practitioners.:p


To my understanding its all chinese as filtered through indonesia and the kentucky. I don't know if it was "mixed" with somthing else. It has taken on its own unique "flavor" for various reasons.

Various reasons=(in my observations) precisely this:

Everyone who trained with the brothers The' back in the day say this: they were kind of on the "hardcore" side......LOL, which is not that surprising, seeing how MA's are/were practiced in Indonesia until the 1970's/1980's. Find some kuntao-silat training vids, and you'll see what I mean. Guys having boiling oil poured on their heads and hands in order to test themselves, diving through panes of glass (not safety glass), jumping off of the tops of three story builidings, sometimes rolling out of it, sometimes just impacting, somtimes breaking legs--but all the time friggin' nuts!:p:D As such, their emphasis was on fighting, not on forms. But then, for whatever reason (I have my opnions), forms came into greater focus in the cirriculum. Although, iron bone conditioning (esp. the shins) is still pretty **** "hardcore". Mine are still sore from their first flogging.

Nevertheless, I'm going to assume one facet of the training was always the same: in that, it is/was more about gaining the essence and application of a movement rather than the "pose". What I mean by this is can be easily corroborated by any SD student. When you throw a high block, you throw one a little above the temple, a couple of inches out. For the most part, in CMA, you throw one several inches directly above your head (although most CMA's don't have the correct angular deflection, and thus have poor high-blocks, from an SD mindset of applicability). The The' brothers probably never emphasized the angle or hand position; no school I've encountered does either (not like my old Longfist teacher, who would stop you mid-form, take you back to a "pose", and manually reposition your hand). The important thing in SD was/is you had to be in position to actually deflect something. But if you don't throw a really high high block (like in my Longfist), the form tends to look crappy.

I always tend to stress high blocks, and practice the motions big. I figure the way CMA developed, and taught larger (which seem ineffective) movements, was for the reason that in combat, you're going to be tense, and your motions will become smaller. If you practice exaggerated movements, they'll probably be just right when you get cramped in combat situations. This is the way I train, and it helps infinitely in my sparring.

[kwaichang]

The forms as taught are a blue print. We are taught to perform a technique say a leg sweep by keeping the leg straight 'almost' and driving through , and bringing the foot as high as possible. Just as we are taught to perform other tech with exaggerated movement so as to develop the proper body mechanics and muscle coordination and cond. It is my opinion that some get stuck at this point and consider it the end. Instead I feel they should start to add fluidity and shorten the techniques to generate more power and flow "flavor" . Some dont these are the ones who appear to be doing Kara-te, Japanese style. This makes the form easier to teach and more sharp focus wise. KC:):)

[Shaolin Wookie]

The forms as taught are a blue print. We are taught to perform a technique say a leg sweep by keeping the leg straight 'almost' and driving through , and bringing the foot as high as possible. Just as we are taught to perform other tech with exaggerated movement so as to develop the proper body mechanics and muscle coordination and cond. It is my opinion that some get stuck at this point and consider it the end. Instead I feel they should start to add fluidity and shorten the techniques to generate more power and flow "flavor" . Some dont these are the ones who appear to be doing Kara-te, Japanese style. This makes the form easier to teach and more sharp focus wise. KC:):)

Exactly, KC. I agree with this 100%. But the problem is, sometimes in the transmission (and I know this from experience) certain teachers who do not realize this do not pass on those exaggerations to beginners, and assume that because they, as senior practitioners, can feel the application, power, and flow, and can therefore preserve the essence with their own flavor, that the new guy can do the same thing. And this simply is not the case. It takes that exaggeration, sometimes, to really understand what you're doing. I had several teachers of sifu level pass on those "smaller" motions, which made no sense to me. And then the master of the school would see that, tell me to exaggerate it a little (b/c I assume he can see the struggle/frustration in the movement/attitude), and it seemed like it made all the difference in the world, and lights went off in my head. And later, I would whittle those motions down to more precise and exact ones, and still continue to do this daily.

It's really a question of teaching philosophy/method, more than anything.

#10 sparring technique is a microcosm of this in action. I always see wretched versions of this. Generally, I just try to get people to know the points of action, where the hands go/chamber, etc. But then I pull someone aside who's been doing it longer, yet still doesn't understand it, and again describe the points of action, and then ask them to apply it, and there's this look of sudden enlightenment as they figure out the basics of the motion. And then you explain the reason the feet shift and the knee raises, why the hand doesn't make a huge sweeping rise and huge sweeping chop, and why you want to pull your hands up (to throw the elbow)....and the technique gets remarkably complicated. And when you perform it in the air, after knowing this, and hte motions are much smaller, more precise, more directed, and can be applied without much trouble (honestly, most people are just asking to catch sparring tech #10, and I oblige them).

Sometimes it's a case of not passing on an exaggeration to just get their body in place; and sometimes it's a case of negligence in not teaching them how and why to trim down those movements, once their body becomes accustomed to it without too much thought.

But some people don't take that advice, or don't get it, and they just perform a dead technique, rote, of movement, and nothing else. And I see that attitude a lot, not just in SD. Sometimes I think the approach to teaching is just not there anymore in some MA's. And with the proliferation of schools, more teachers, some with the wrong attitudes, proliferate, and the expansion--although good for you and I--tends to ruin the art. (kind of like TKD, where a good tournament performer thinks he's good enough to teach and sets up a chain school, but doesn't pass on the ART---the art suffers and becomes a bit of a joke). But if you can find a great teacher (like the master of the school I attend, and several of its higher ranking teachers (all throughout ATL, really), you can profit by it. I lucked out by having great, dedicated teachers. Some are great at fighting. Some at certain styles. Some at weapons. There's a wealth of expertises to draw on.

I've cross-trained for a while, and I'm constantly astounded (and curse my stubborn blindness) to see that I've already learned what I'm seeing in another art, only I didn't realize it.

[Judge Pen]

My question is this...Is Shaolin Do Karate the same as Shaolin Kung Fu? If it is, then your saying that what you teach has no other arts (japanese, korean, etc...) mixed in with it. What you teach is all Chinese?

Interestingly, I was cleaning out my garage yesterday and I came across a copy of the manual that accompanied the old KET "Karate Series" back in the 80s that GMS hosted. In that manual, GMS refers to everything as karate including what was being done by "karateka" in China. Now, no one, not even GMS will say today that karate or karateka is the proper term to describe the martial arts in China, but it shows that early on, the term was, to GMS, interchangable. GMS said his style was shaolin karate and that its origns were 100% from China as taught to him by GM Ie.

When I started in 1989, my first teacher was calling the style karate, but on my first "intorductory" lesson he said that the style is really Chinese kung fu, but is called karate because of the way GMS trained in Indonesia. The terms and the gis were part of that tradition that was uniqe to SD. If GM Ie ingrained calling it and acting as if it was "karate" then that's understandable. (This is one of the reasons I'd like to get White Earp's teacher's take on this).

[Shaolin Wookie]

Interestingly, I was cleaning out my garage yesterday and I came across a copy of the manual that accompanied the old KET "Karate Series" back in the 80s that GMS hosted. In that manual, GMS refers to everything as karate including what was being done by "karateka" in China. Now, no one, not even GMS will say today that karate or karateka is the proper term to describe the martial arts in China, but it shows that early on, the term was, to GMS, interchangable. GMS said his style was shaolin karate and that its origns were 100% from China as taught to him by GM Ie.

When I started in 1989, my first teacher was calling the style karate, but on my first "intorductory" lesson he said that the style is really Chinese kung fu, but is called karate because of the way GMS trained in Indonesia. The terms and the gis were part of that tradition that was uniqe to SD. If GM Ie ingrained calling it and acting as if it was "karate" then that's understandable. (This is one of the reasons I'd like to get White Earp's teacher's take on this).

Does this mean I'm a karateka, too? Sweet. I'm ranked in two arts, for the price of one.:D

[kwaichang]

Kind of shoots holes in the semantics ? spelling . of it all doesnt it ?? I mean you can call it any thing but it is still Chinese TMA. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

When I started in 1989, my first teacher was calling the style karate, but on my first "intorductory" lesson he said that the style is really Chinese kung fu, but is called karate because of the way GMS trained in Indonesia. The terms and the gis were part of that tradition that was uniqe to SD. If GM Ie ingrained calling it and acting as if it was "karate" then that's understandable. (This is one of the reasons I'd like to get White Earp's teacher's take on this).

I still don't understand why anyone would want to call it Shaolin-Do. He had a perfectly fine name with Chung Yen Shaolin, which was the name of the original school in Indonesia. That, more than anything, was an indicator of its origin and lineage.

I suppose since GM Sin was perhaps adding material and teaching in a new environment, he picked something that represented what he wanted to teach, how he would teach it, how he would preserve it, or maybe he just picked something marketable. Or maybe he thought it would be dishonorable or impolite to name his school Chung Yen Shaolin when the original school was still up and running back home. Anyone know, or have better guesses?

Maybe it was a slogan or something for the original school? Or what it represented?

"The Shaolin Way".....Chinese immigrants in culturally hostile Indonesia......perhaps it represented an idea for GM Sin?

[mkriii]

So if other styles are mixed in Shoalin Do (styles from Indonesia & Malyasia) then Shaolin Do is not pure Shaolin Kung Fu as it was taught at the Shaolin Temple, correct? I assume this is correct due to the sai and nunchucks being taught in Shaolin Do and other foriegn techniques/weapons that are not common in Kung Fu. With that being said is it kung fu or another hybrid style that has arrisen by combining a few different styles together and calling it something different? Hence the word "Do" at the end of Shaolin.

[Shaolin Wookie]

So if other styles are mixed in Shoalin Do (styles from Indonesia & Malyasia) then Shaolin Do is not pure Shaolin Kung Fu as it was taught at the Shaolin Temple, correct? I assume this is correct due to the sai and nunchucks being taught in Shaolin Do and other foriegn techniques/weapons that are not common in Kung Fu. With that being said is it kung fu or another hybrid style that has arrisen by combining a few different styles together and calling it something different? Hence the word "Do" at the end of Shaolin.

The Cha (sai) isn't common, but it has Shaolin history. As for the Shuang Jie Gun, or Da Pang Long Gun, some say it came to Okinawa from China. China does have the two-section staff/flail and the three-section staff. I find it hard to believe that someone who invented the three section staff wouldn't have pondered one day......"hey, I bet this would work with two sections, too!":p

After all, you have to go through two in order to get to three. Unless, of course, you're Niels Bohr or a complete friggin' retard.

[MasterKiller]

The Cha (sai) isn't common, but it has Shaolin history.

Source ?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Source ?

Pictures of Shaolin weapons racks, with pairs of sais on them. It's not bonafide, but nothing is short of a time traveling Delorian with access to a place where we don't need roads to speak with actual monks of the past. Plus, numerous styles have sai forms. Again, not bonafide. But seriously......is it that hard to believe that Chinese kung-fu, with its untold quantities of weapons, some abstract and exotic, included something as basic as a sword-breaker or a sai?

[MasterKiller]

Pictures of Shaolin weapons racks, with pairs of sais on them. It's not bonafide, but nothing is short of a time traveling Delorian with access to a place where we don't need roads to speak with actual monks of the past.

Where are these pictures?

[Shaolin Wookie]

I have a book at home with one (non-SD). Don't know which one. Then there's a photo a fellow student took when he was visiting the temple (I doubt he smuggled them conspiracy-theory-style).

[Judge Pen]

So if other styles are mixed in Shoalin Do (styles from Indonesia & Malyasia) then Shaolin Do is not pure Shaolin Kung Fu as it was taught at the Shaolin Temple, correct? I assume this is correct due to the sai and nunchucks being taught in Shaolin Do and other foriegn techniques/weapons that are not common in Kung Fu. With that being said is it kung fu or another hybrid style that has arrisen by combining a few different styles together and calling it something different? Hence the word "Do" at the end of Shaolin.

Sai, aka iron ruler, were a weapon used in Southern China. I haven't seen any real evidence for the nunchucku, but with all the exotic weapons under the kung fu umbrella, then its logical that a weapon as simple as the nunchuku would have been used in china as well.

Many southern practitioners have noted this. Here is one example:


My style, Southern Mantis, is known for it's 'tid jek' (aka Iron Ruler) which is almost identical to a japanese 'sai'.

Does any other chinese style use this weapon? Maybe is it a staple of hakka styles?

[Judge Pen]

Where are these pictures?

There was a picture from the excavation of a temple in fujian that had "sai". It was posted either by bruce (sholindoiscool) or sean stonehart. I believe it was actually published in KFM.

[MasterKiller]

I want to see the pic of it hanging on a weapon rack.

[Judge Pen]

I want to see the pic of it hanging on a weapon rack.

Looking for it. Meanwhile, here's another citation by our own Salvatore Canzonieri referencing the use of "sai" in Southern China.

http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMAarticle28.htm

[Judge Pen]

http://www.mts.net/~sillum/South%20Shaolin%20Temple1.htm

Here is an article of the excavation with the remains of what clearly is a "sai" (see picture at bottom).

[The Willow Sword]

Sai were origianlly japanese farming implements. A rice planter if i am not mistaken. they were useful for peasants to defend themselves against swords and whatnot. now the origin of this rice planter turned weapon may have its origins in china but the japanese used it extensively.

Peace,TWS


P.S. i thought it was STUPID for the chinese to build a temple right on the excavation site. did they excavate all that could be? or did they just dig down to a level and then stop after they got some rusty farm tools and weapons? At any rate i still think it was stupid to do that. Build the temple in another location adjacent or something but not on top of an excavation site.

[Judge Pen]

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd2/coll_westernstaff1.htm

See Video #516

"Guo Hui-Xia performs Shuang-Jie Lian-Jia Gun.
This version of the double segmented staff (nunchaku) is true northern style with huge movements and arms-wise actions. The sticks have flags and long chains and the overall set qualifies as more showy than the other double nunchaku in the Western Staff series. The woman performing is quite expert at the actions but overall the movements are accurate but more performance oriented. Flashing flags and whirling sticks."

Also, check out this dialouge: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t4666.html

[Judge Pen]

Here's what wing lam has to say about chinese sai (with video):

http://www.wle.com/products/VHG32D.html

[B-Rad]

I think you also have to take with a grain of salt some Chinese "nunchuck" forms. While the two section staff certainly existed, there's also quite a few who adopted nunchucks inspired by the movies (particularly Bruce Lee). And yes, it's not allways Japanese stylists "stealing" material from kungfu... sometimes it DOES work the other way ;)

[Judge Pen]

Here was the earlier topic discussed here:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25439

[Shaolin Wookie]

and in reference to the japan questions a few post back why are look at the weapons rack and figure out the weapon many have used on this thread to say sd in japanese karate, what is a sai doing at the shaolin temple :-)http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/WeaponRackcloseup.jpg

There it is.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I wonder if there are any guns at the Shaolin temple (no, I don't mean staves)?

What caliber gun do you think Shaolin sponsors?

I'm thinking something flashy, maybe nickel plated, with a flag on it, of course.

[MasterKiller]

I wonder if there are any guns at the Shaolin temple (no, I don't mean staves)? Didn't you get your tickets?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Didn't you get your tickets?

What? To this?

[MasterKiller]

What? To this?

Steal my thunder...:mad:

[bodhi warrior]

has anyone compared sd's mantis with other styles of mantis? If so how does sd's mantis match up, and what style does it most closely resemble?

[Shaolin Wookie]

has anyone compared sd's mantis with other styles of mantis? If so how does sd's mantis match up, and what style does it most closely resemble?

White Monkey STP and other White Monkey Mantis ones are pretty comparable as well.

Don't know many others. But the Master of the school I go to conducted 4 mantis seminars this summer, and taught mantis just like most other schools, as far as applications go. I think it was Mantis 7/8 hands drills, etc. Very cool 2 person drills, practicing elbows and defenses, hip strikes, etc.

More info than I can process......

[The Willow Sword]

The mantis sets there are supposed to be of 7 star origin or they claim that it IS seven star but since i was a mantis guy before SD and comparing and since then, the mantis at sd is pretty terrible and it is choppy and karate like(have done it and felt like i was doing karate or a uhhh hybridized version). absolutely NOTHING like Traditional Mantis. again youtube is going to show you some pretty good mantis stuff but SD doesnt have any you tube mantis being demo'd.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSTyL333hRk


here is some old footage. pretty cool considering, some mantis in there at the beginning and other stuff.

Peace,TWS

[Mas Judt]

OMG... love those clips. Something about old dudes demonstrating in a suit...


For the record, the rice planter/potato digger story about a Sai is apocryphal. It is a common short truncheon/sword design found throughout SouthEast Asia. Favored by pirates for some reason.

[Shaolin Wookie]

OMG... love those clips. Something about old dudes demonstrating in a suit...


For the record, the rice planter/potato digger story about a Sai is apocryphal. It is a common short truncheon/sword design found throughout SouthEast Asia. Favored by pirates for some reason.

No. Not for some reason. It's favored by pirates in order to point the way to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They are his chosen people, and the sai was their ancient spaghetti-twirling fork.

Have you been touched by His Noodly Appendage?

[Mas Judt]

You have to be careful when using the term 'kuntao' as it has many meanings:

Prior to Independence, it meant 'martial arts'

After Independence and the establishment of 'bahasa indonesia' as the official language, Dutch and Chinese terms were forbidden, and the term 'Silat' became the generic term for martial arts. In other words you have 'Indonesian Silat', Chinese Silat (CMA), Japanese Silat (JMA) etc...

KunTao can mean:

Modern Chinese martial arts
Chinese martial arts that have been practiced for centuries in the Nusantra
Hybrid Chinese/Indo arts
Syncretic arts with a Chinese base integrating karate/jujitsu/silat whatever

For instance, I WOULD call SD 'kuntao' but it is not the same thing I refer to as Kuntao in my practice. And it does not change the fact that SD does not demonstrate any actual understanding of many of the things they teach.

[Shaolin Wookie]

For instance, I WOULD call SD 'kuntao' but it is not the same thing I refer to as Kuntao in my practice. And it does not change the fact that SD does not demonstrate any actual understanding of many of the things they teach.

Which branch did you study at? The Lexington school?

[sean_stonehart]

has anyone compared sd's mantis with other styles of mantis? If so how does sd's mantis match up, and what style does it most closely resemble?

Go watch the famed Denver video & then go Google Brendan Lai, Shr Zheng Zhong, Sun De Yao, etc... and let us know what you think...

[Shaolin Wookie]

Go watch the famed Denver video & then go Google Brendan Lai, Shr Zheng Zhong, Sun De Yao, etc... and let us know what you think...

Yes...yes...yes....let's go find some guy in Denver who does this for fun, and then let's go find one of the most renowned masters in China and the US who's trained since he was a toddler, and put them side-by-side.


Or, let's go get some white high school point guard who's about 5'6", and put him up against Kobe Bryant or Amare Stoudemire. Or let's take the overweight linebacker on the same high school's football team, and throw him into the defensive line against a Pro Bowl team.


Yes....yes....yes....I see it now. You're RIGHT!!!!!:D:rolleyes:

[sean_stonehart]

Yes...yes...yes....let's go find some guy in Denver who does this for fun, and then let's go find one of the most renowned masters in China and the US who's trained since he was a toddler, and put them side-by-side.


Well since you want to be ****ty about it, there's footage from the 60's/70's of Brendan Lai's students doing a two man set. Or there's the video of ST where he's doing a piece of the SD "Tang Lang Chien"... doesn't that fit your description?



Or, let's go get some white high school point guard who's about 5'6", and put him up against Kobe Bryant or Amare Stoudemire.

They did. He was a little taller & has more melanin in his skin but his name is Lebron.

At 5'8" Spudd Webb spanked lots of tall NBA ass in his day too...



Or let's take the overweight linebacker on the same high school's football team, and throw him into the defensive line against a Pro Bowl team.

Now that's not fun since the highschool kid hasn't had a chance to be on roids as long as the other guys....




Yes....yes....yes....I see it now. You're RIGHT!!!!!:D:rolleyes:

Nope far from it...

[The Willow Sword]

Wookie? Why dont you post a vid of yourself doing some SD mantis. Then we will counter post to the level at which you are at in SD,as best we can,to some traditional mantis players who are at your level and then we can compare. The point that Sean is making here are the comparisons to movement and authenticity(yet again another debate here that goes round and round).

TWS

[Shaolin Wookie]

Well since you want to be ****ty about it,

I'm on hour 27 of 28 straight hours of work on a shift at my weekend job/shift at weekday job/ shift at weekend job (state holiday).......back-to-back-to-back. Of course I'm going to be......snotty about it. LOL.....:D I'm trying to stay awake.




They did. He was a little taller & has more melanin in his skin but his name is Lebron.
.


What are you talking about? Lebron was born a full grown man, goatee and all. He didn't get birthed. He jumped out of his mother's vagina, windmilled, and slammed the placenta onto the light over the examination table, then got a shoe contract, and joined the NBA, all in his first month. He was originally a twin, but he ate his brother, just for the protein.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Wookie? Why dont you post a vid of yourself doing some SD mantis. Then we will counter post to the level at which you are at in SD,as best we can,to some traditional mantis players who are at your level and then we can compare. The point that Sean is making here are the comparisons to movement and authenticity(yet again another debate here that goes round and round).

TWS

I tried. I've got an 8mm tape, and I managed to get it to DVD-R at the DVD recorder at work, but couldn't convert it further without investing in equipment, so I just sent it to my family to enjoy. I planned getting it on Youtube so my entire fam could see it, but don't have the technology for it, and dropping a couple hundred bucks on video cards and **** for 1 time use just isn't smart.

[MasterKiller]

I tried. I've got an 8mm tape, and I managed to get it to DVD-R at the DVD recorder at work, but couldn't convert it further without investing in equipment, so I just sent it to my family to enjoy. I planned getting it on Youtube so my entire fam could see it, but don't have the technology for it.

Just in case you are interested...

1. Plug the 8mm camera into your computer with a firewire cable (probably how you got it to the DVD burner, yes?).
2. Open Windows Movie Maker.
3. Record the clip onto your harddrive.
4. Save as MPEG.
5. Upload to Youtube.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I thought you had to have some kind of video adapter card in your computer, no? I used a DVD Recorder hooked to a TV, not a computer. So it was more like a VCR.

The cable I had was just a simple video/mono audio cable, two prongs for the recorder, two for the camcorder.

I've got a ****ty computer at home. No access to a better one.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Wookie? Why dont you post a vid of yourself doing some SD mantis. Then we will counter post to the level at which you are at in SD,as best we can,to some traditional mantis players who are at your level and then we can compare. The point that Sean is making here are the comparisons to movement and authenticity(yet again another debate here that goes round and round).

TWS

You and Sean know some, right?

Got access to a cam?

[MasterKiller]

I thought you had to have some kind of video adapter card in your computer, no? I used a DVD Recorder hooked to a TV, not a computer. So it was more like a VCR.

The cable I had was just a simple video/mono audio cable, two prongs for the recorder, two for the camcorder.

I've got a ****ty computer at home. No access to a better one.

You don't have to have a video card capture card if your camera and computer have firewire ports or USB ports.

Your stuff sounds too old.

[sean_stonehart]

You and Sean know some, right?

Got access to a cam?


Yes I do.

No I don't.

At this point though, the CLF would override any PM body mechanics so it'd look like crap.

[Shaolin Wookie]

You don't have to have a video card capture card if your camera and computer have firewire ports or USB ports.

Your stuff sounds too old.

Not mine, borrowed from girlfriend's dad.:o I should've invested in decent camcorders, rather than throwin' my loot away on grad school.

[The Willow Sword]

i HAD video capabilities on my sh!tty little digi cam but it went the way of the dodo bird and i am out of pocket. The form that i would do on cam would be the bung bo form i learned years ago. NOT the SD version but the version from my Traditional Teacher. sooner or later i will get something on vid. but for now i will just post vids of other peoples stuff to discredit your stuff wookie;):p:D TWS

[Shaolin Wookie]

i HAD video capabilities on my sh!tty little digi cam but it went the way of the dodo bird and i am out of pocket. The form that i would do on cam would be the bung bo form i learned years ago. NOT the SD version but the version from my Traditional Teacher. sooner or later i will get something on vid. but for now i will just post vids of other peoples stuff to discredit your stuff wookie;):p:D TWS

If you can't tell, I'm not a sensitive guy. I've got some sweet capoeira footage....well, not that sweet, but pretty sweet for about 6 months of study, and my crane, staff work, and China Hands look pretty good for my level. Can't say my mantis is anything to brag about (not that I have much....though I'm getting the hang of White Monkey STP), but ****, I'd put it out there anyways.....LOL.....

I'm trying to see if my friend can do what I'm looking to do. Primarily, I'm looking to post for my family, but if inquiring minds want to peep, **** 'em....LOL......:D

I was just jokin' about you TWS and Sean........playing Devi'ls Advocate....

[MasterKiller]

This is 2007. Everyone here knows someone with a decent camera. It is not rocket science.

[sean_stonehart]

I was just jokin' about you TWS and Sean........playing Devi'ls Advocate....

Huh??

Anyway I'm here in town if you want to play hands any. I can still pull some PM techniques off, but they're ugly for PM with CLF driving them.

[Shaolin Wookie]

That's just it, I only know other college/grad school students, and they're all broke.

I figured I do it if I could when it was convenient. It's really not, so I'm not going to fret it. But I'll see if I can find a "backdoor" for converting the DVD-R into an MPEG......anyone know of some free Ripping software....legal of course.....but the "Free" part of that statement is really more important than the "legal" part, if you catch my drift.;) I figured it'd be EZ, b/c people are always ripping movies nowadays, or putting them on hard drives.

I have a DVD, now I need MPEG.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Huh??

Anyway I'm here in town if you want to play hands any. I can still pull some PM techniques off, but they're ugly for PM with CLF driving them.

To be honest with you, I was about to visit you guys a while back, but went off to capoeira instead, b/c of the greater interest. My schedule's crazy w/ 2 jobs, grad school, a girlfriend, and SD.......but when I get the chance and fancy hits me, I might still ask you for an intro, or something.....LOL.....not that I'm looking to switch schools. But I love getting other perspectives on MA.

And I wouldn't ask for your SD Mantis expertise when I have a school full of dude's doing it, if you catch my drift.

[Shaolin Wookie]

This is 2007. Everyone here knows someone with a decent camera. It is not rocket science.

You gotta know how to rip a home dVD, right? Hopefully?

[MasterKiller]

You gotta know how to rip a home dVD, right? Hopefully?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/389926/convert_vob_dvd_to_mpeg_files_no_recoding/

[Citong Shifu]

Here's what wing lam has to say about chinese sai (with video):

http://www.wle.com/products/VHG32D.html

Whats funny about wing lams sai form is that it looks almost exactly like his hung gar double butterfly form :confused:. I think someone's full of sh#t, lol...

[sean_stonehart]

To be honest with you, I was about to visit you guys a while back, but went off to capoeira instead, b/c of the greater interest. My schedule's crazy w/ 2 jobs, grad school, a girlfriend, and SD.......but when I get the chance and fancy hits me, I might still ask you for an intro, or something.....LOL.....not that I'm looking to switch schools. But I love getting other perspectives on MA.

And I wouldn't ask for your SD Mantis expertise when I have a school full of dude's doing it, if you catch my drift.

Oh... and I wasn't at anytime talking SD Mantis... ;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

Oh... and I wasn't at anytime talking SD Mantis... ;)

You sly dog.......

[naja]

has anyone compared sd's mantis with other styles of mantis? If so how does sd's mantis match up, and what style does it most closely resemble?

I would love to see this myself. I recently started SD (only school in my area, beside TKD) and I'm very interested in their mantis.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Hello, my fellow SD'ers......


This look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRCd5PNB2zY

[Judge Pen]

Hello, my fellow SD'ers......


This look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRCd5PNB2zY

The dude's pretty good. I can see some similar moves and techniques from our short form and from the 1st brown form "connecting fist".

[sean_stonehart]

Jeet Kuen...

Wookie... you can see that one in your area @ the Eagle Claw school.

It's a pretty basic non-descript long fist set.

[kwaichang]

I taught the SD Mantis I trained in Tang Lang 10 years prior to SD they are similar they are not Karate like they are not mechanical when done right. Some dont. As far as the sai it is chinese in origin and started as a 2 point spear I think in japan it is called a Jitte not sure. but the Chinese would tie it to a stick or pole arm later it was used as a rice straw pitch fork in Okinawa and prob the same in China. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

LOL......I can't get my computer to read that DVD I made....friggin' piece of crap.....so much for videos......I'm not messing with this crap anymore....LOL.....:D

I'll leave it to the richer bloods.

[Shaolin Wookie]

The dude's pretty good. I can see some similar moves and techniques from our short form and from the 1st brown form "connecting fist".


The way I heard it, here in ATL they got a Chinese speaking student to translate the chinese characters of our forms, rather than just the pinyin stuff we see spread across SD websites. Jie Quan is the name we have for our 2nd China Hand posted on our boards and websites.

I see lots of similarities between this "Jeet Kuen" as Sean calls it, and both the china hands. The arm circling really is only at the beginning and ends of the forms, but it's spread throughout this guy's form. But there's always that back bird beak and front side-hand, lots of sweeps, all of those punch/kick combos, the spinning kicks.....

Although, I found a clip of Lian Wu Zhang online, but it had fewer trademarks in common with ours. Seems like ours has a dash of theirs, and a healthy portion of techniques more in common with Jie Quan.

[brucereiter]

Source ?

this photo was taken at the "new" fukien shaolin temple which was recently "rebuilt". this photo does not prove anything about what a shaolin monk may or may not have done many years ago but it does make you ask what "japanese" weapons are being stored on this weapon rack at a shaolin temple?

GuanZhou Temple - weapon rack photo – sai and tonfa

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/WeaponRackcloseup.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/WeaponRackcloseup.jpg

[sean_stonehart]

The way I heard it, here in ATL they got a Chinese speaking student to translate the chinese characters of our forms, rather than just the pinyin stuff we see spread across SD websites. Jie Quan is the name we have for our 2nd China Hand posted on our boards and websites.

Say Thank you... I had help, but the yoemen's amount of work was me.

[bodhi warrior]

The Denver clip is some of the worst preying mantis I've seen. To be honest though,I seen another guy at the gathering in lexington who was a third black who was just as bad. It's all about practice and effort. But these two were leaving some moves out and just flailing their arms around. I was just wondering about whether or not some of postures were similar. Not if the performances were similar.

[kwaichang]

This has been talked about before, however I viewed one of the Tang Lang clips Bong Bu Chien on the U tube through the Mantis part of the forum. I then did the ame form for my wife. She said wow they are very similar some of the moves are different but real close. She could actually tell I was doing the same form even w/o frog buttons. I think it is the practitioner if you are doing tiger you cant be a kitten if you are doing Mantis you cant be a tiger, be what you are doing. KC:)

[sean_stonehart]

I think it is the practitioner if you are doing tiger you cant be a kitten if you are doing Mantis you cant be a tiger, be what you are doing. KC:)

Do you realize the irony of what you just said??

This is one of the main points for this whole thread.

[sean_stonehart]

The Denver clip is some of the worst preying mantis I've seen. To be honest though,I seen another guy at the gathering in lexington who was a third black who was just as bad. It's all about practice and effort. But these two were leaving some moves out and just flailing their arms around. I was just wondering about whether or not some of postures were similar. Not if the performances were similar.

That & there are components missing from SD Mantis that when you really watch what a PM player (or any other MA that SD has laid onto that can be found elsewhere) is doing with the body, energy, expression, etc... you'll find SD normally comes up lacking on it.

[The Willow Sword]

Originally Quoted By KC


I trained in Tang Lang 10 years prior to SD


Remind us again of WHERE you studied at? Teacher? School? where? What Branch of Tang lang? Plumblossom? Seven Star? Yin/Yang? Seems like 10 years of Tang lang would have put it in your head that what you are doing now and what you have taught at SD are not the same and do not coincide with the principles of Mantis AT ALL. I have enough training in Mantis to know that for a FACT. Come on KC:rolleyes:. Monkey Steals the Peach SD version? choppy and linear, White Monkey comes out the cave? Linear and even more choppy. Tang Lang Tsu Ju? an embarrassment in my opinion. Or the SD version Of bung bo to which i took that seminar and then Left that Seminar because of 1. frustration and 2. the Bung bo i learned looked and felt NOTHING like what was being taught at that seminar.
Just clarify with us the Tang lang experience you have KC?

Peace,TWS

[arinathos.valin]

10 pages to go...

[kwaichang]

I admit the body dynamics of the Mantis I learned "7 Star" was different I have no prob with that , I have also seen 4-6 Bong Bu Chien Mantis forms on the U tube they are all different and have different emphasis. As does SD Mantis. MA are all different dependent upon many factors. You guys are unable to prove or disprove anything you are just being petty. WS as far as your mantis is concerned I never saw any evidence of your training in Mantis showing through in SD. Fighting or otherwise. Sorry if I offend. KC

[The Willow Sword]

WS as far as your mantis is concerned I never saw any evidence of your training in Mantis showing through in SD. Fighting or otherwise. Sorry if I offend. KC

Actually YES you have, in point of fact, when i was taking one of my brown belt tests,back in the day, You were telling me afterwards about how my cranes looked like mantis(at the time i stiall had not gotten the mantis out of my head yet and so my forms had that mantis feel to them). i remember you saying to me that the cup of tea that you and the other judges were wanted to be served was the tea they asked for and not the tea they got(something to the effect of make your crane style look like crane etc etc.)

oh and i never showed my mantis forms i learned prior to Sd because i felt it innapropriate to do so since i was now in a different school. As to my Mantis fighting, we rarely ever sparred and when we did it was always a tussle that went to the ground with you sitting on me. You still have not answered all the queries about WHERE and WHO you trained 10 years with.
ok so you did 7*. Great, with whom?

Peace,TWS

[kwaichang]

I recall sparring you one time only and it did not go to the ground. No Matter. I do not think you will know my teacher AS IT WAS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN I THINK. If your mantis was so ingrained I would have thought it would show in every thing all I recall is you trying to fight with your hands in Mantis Claw but that was your thing no matter. You really should get over all this. Walk On Walk On KC:)

[Leto]

Some of the SD forms come in sets, and it is said they are meant to really be one form. Some of the forms are extremely short, and it would make sense.
The difficult part sometimes is in transitioning from where the ending bow would normally be into the first move of the next form. Has anyone ever tried doing this, or practice this way regularly?

What forms comprise sets that could or should be practiced as one? White cranes, birds, black tigers, hua fist...any others?

[kwaichang]

If you think the Huas are all supposed to be done as one then you are more of a Man than I am they kick a$$ 1 st road alone does this much less all 5 KC

[The Willow Sword]

KC i am just asking you some simple questions about your mantis background. You make a claim of 10 years experience and you will not tell me or the forum here who you studied under for ten years. Uhhh and you and i are not too far off in age KC so i dont think you were training mantis in the early to late 60's, unless you were a prodigy pre-infant,LOL!!! i was born in 71'.

No what i think is going on here with your dancing around the subject is that ONE, i have a way better memory than you when it comes to my time at SD and the experiences i had there, be it with you or anyone else. and TWO,it looks suspiciously like uhhh cougcoughcoughbullsh!tcoughcough your claims on what you have studied before SD. i dont doubt the japanese stuff you claim but the Mantis i am questioning whole heartedly here. As for me getting over things and walking on, i have gotten over things and if you will re read a post i made earlier in the week i said i wasnt going to b!tch about things anymore, what i am doing now is having a discussion and debate and i think that i have been doing well, considering. YOU are dancing around my question as to your Mantis background.
Sure it is your perrogative to not answer,HOWEVER, making a claim of Ten Year Study of 7 star Mantis and not backing it with ANY info as to where and WHO you Studied with, Well... Am i the only one here who smells BS?

Peace,TWS

[kwaichang]

My mistake about your age. I started in 1971 training private and semi private maybe 2-4 guys in Tang Lang and Hung Gar for ten years with the same guy he was from San Jose California and he trained with a man simply known as Chief. So you were 10when I stopped training with him. Still quite young. The last time I heard from him was in 1992 he had had a heart attack at that time. BTW I only listed my time with him but you are attempting to discredit me because of my earlier point about the 5 Bung Bu Chien form and how they are all performed differently although the same form but because SD Bung Bu Chien is from SD it is wrong although the moves are all quite similar but the emphasis is different. I even agreed with you that The Body mechanics etc are different in SD but that wasnt enough. You have a bone to pick but you dont want to pick it with me . And my memory for important things is quite good I guess this means very little to me. KC

[tattooedmonk]

I have been going through my tapes of Master Sin doing various forms and I am still amazed at how well he uses proper body mechanics . From stances to shifting weight to the end of a technique. I do not care how other people see it. He utilizes all the essential aspects of proper training and movement. I know what some people think of as traditional and /or real, but to be honest, he is doing it more correctly than most people I have seen. Forget about what you think and believe to be right, if you do not understand physiology, kinetics, structural alignment,body mechanics, etc., then it does not matter . Master Sin surely does.

[The Willow Sword]

You have a bone to pick but you dont want to pick it with me .

gosh i am really shakin like a leaf. Veiled threats dont become you KC.

Am actually not picking a bone with you, just expressing my opinions of the Sd mantis material which i feel is NOT indicitive of what true and traditional mantis is.

Mantis is what my former teacher taught me primarily. certainly i havent trained as long as YOU have your "ten" years with cherokee cheif:rolleyes: or whomever to my measley 3 years with a student of Ng family kung fu. (see that is traceable and verified as well). hehe well maybe i am picking at ya a little bit;):p


Walking on happily,TWS:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Isn't this craptastic!!!:D:p:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

@ about min 2 or so in the 3rd of the series mark ho sifu says something about performing an old form for a hung kuen master called" tiger coming out of the cave" , it is an older form of hung gar(kuen) that the master did not know, but knew it was hung gar(kuen) form. Is it possible that our tiger coming out of the cave is this form?? I know that names of forms do not neccesarily mean that they are the same form , but do you thnk it is possible??

[sean_stonehart]

@ about min 2 or so in the 3rd of the series mark ho sifu says something about performing an old form for a hung kuen master called" tiger coming out of the cave" , it is an older form of hung gar(kuen) that the master did not know, but knew it was hung gar(kuen) form. Is it possible that our tiger coming out of the cave is this form?? I know that names of forms do not neccesarily mean that they are the same form , but do you thnk it is possible??

In a word... no.

Pure & Simple. If you've been doing Hung Ga on the side as long as you claim, you'd recognize the body mechanics aren't even ball park close between any version of Hung Ga & what SD does as "Tigers" , 3rd black "Tiger/Crane" as well.

[tattooedmonk]

In a word... no.

Pure & Simple. If you've been doing Hung Ga on the side as long as you claim, you'd recognize the body mechanics aren't even ball park close between any version of Hung Ga & what SD does as "Tigers" , 3rd black "Tiger/Crane" as well.
ok....but I am not talking about how SD does the forms . I am talking about the form it's self.

I have seen the SD version of the tiger/ crane form done just like Chiu Chu Ling's. Then I have also seen it done in the other way.;):rolleyes::p

I have to admit ,again ,seeing the CSC videos of common forms makes me shudder. Most people do not spend enough time working on the details of the forms and do not have the proper intent.

I have been doing Fei Hu Chu Tung for over 15 years now and I see a drastic change in the way it was presented to me and now how I play it.

I understand that my outer CMA influences helped me with this but I know that the previous masters/ sifus I had in SD helped a great deal as well as, my own practice. I believe a lot of the power , stability , fluidity , etc. just comes with time and effort. Not everybody has the same amount of time or effort to put into their training.

I think if there were two different classes one for people who just want to get into shape and get healthy and then another one for real martial artist , then at some point after you have been doing it for health purposes it can/ will over lap.....blah blah bah....

[kungfujunky]

hey tm i dont want to get into a huge debate with others about this but id love to see how you do fei hu and compare it to myself


would you be willing to send me a vid of it privately?

we may have our differences but i respect someone who continues to perfect their stuff.

anyways lmk



also for mass consumption what is the most accepted best looking/most accurately done chen 83 posture vid out there.

ie on youtube or what not.

lmk!

[Baqualin]

hey tm i dont want to get into a huge debate with others about this but id love to see how you do fei hu and compare it to myself


would you be willing to send me a vid of it privately?

we may have our differences but i respect someone who continues to perfect their stuff.

anyways lmk



also for mass consumption what is the most accepted best looking/most accurately done chen 83 posture vid out there.

ie on youtube or what not.

lmk!

I can't wait to hear the opinions for this one.
BQ

[brucereiter]

also for mass consumption what is the most accepted best looking/most accurately done chen 83 posture vid out there.

ie on youtube or what not.

lmk!

hi kfj,

i dont know about "best" since there are so many different expressions of chen tai chi chuan.
below are links to some of the most interesting chen tai chi chuan expressions i have seen, i have learned a lot from watching them. note how different they all are from one another.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ptMHickAiVo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CPYtoFllHy8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8uu7ghVNt4M

http://youtube.com/watch?v=72yaPmAH3uw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6Fae-nRRPA

http://youtube.com/profile?user=hunyuantaiji

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ubUcKOmWrlc

best,

bruce

[Baqualin]

hi kfj,

i dont know about "best" since there are so many different expressions of chen tai chi chuan.
below are links to some of the most interesting chen tai chi chuan expressions i have seen, i have learned a lot from watching them. note how different they all are from one another.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ptMHickAiVo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CPYtoFllHy8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8uu7ghVNt4M

http://youtube.com/watch?v=72yaPmAH3uw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6Fae-nRRPA

http://youtube.com/profile?user=hunyuantaiji

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ubUcKOmWrlc

best,

bruce

All but 2 are the cannon fist form...the last one of George is chen 83 and he is very good.......personally I like Ren Guang Yi's style the best.....he's very powerful and the top student of the top Chen Master.
Best to You,
BQ

[kungfujunky]

hmm

thx for the clips bruce

i have some homework to do on this form. so many different interpretations of the same moves.

[DPL]

Don't slow down now you slackers! Only nine pages to go!

SD executes with more martial intent than most TCMA. Discuss. :cool:

[sean_stonehart]

Don't slow down now you slackers! Only nine pages to go!

SD executes with more martial intent than most TCMA. Discuss. :cool:

Eh... 2.5 DPL.... you can do better... ;)

But I'll bite... it executes with more intent than some kinda, just like it executes with more martial intent than say TKD... people, not style.

[Judge Pen]

Do you think Su Kong Tai Djian was the inspriation for the TMNT character "Splinter"? Discuss. :cool:

[DPL]

Do you think Su Kong Tai Djian was the inspriation for the TMNT character "Splinter"? Discuss. :cool:

Clearly he was, but it leaves open the question as to who the four turtles were modeled after, as well as their hockey-stick-wielding sidekick.

[sean_stonehart]

Do you think Su Kong Tai Djian was the inspriation for the TMNT character "Splinter"? Discuss. :cool:

Hmmmm.... wookie = rat ... interesting proposal...

[DPL]

Eh... 2.5 DPL.... you can do better... ;)



:p It made you post, didn't it? :)



But I'll bite... it executes with more intent than some kinda, just like it executes with more martial intent than say TKD... people, not style.

Would you say it executes with more marital intent than other styles? Or more martially in tents?

[sean_stonehart]

:p It made you post, didn't it? :)


Ummmm.... shut it... :D:D:D:D:D:D:D



Would you say it executes with more marital intent than other styles? Or more martially in tents?

Hmmmm... depends.... if Jessica Alba is in the tent or not... :D

[Baqualin]

Ummmm.... shut it... :D:D:D:D:D:D:D



Hmmmm... depends.... if Jessica Alba is in the tent or not... :D


Hmmmmm....I'll bite on that one:D
BQ

[mkriii]

Hello all. Hello Baqualin. How is everyone taday? Has anyone learned anything interesting in the past couple days? Any new forms? does anyone know where I can find some information on Loong Ying (dragon style kung fu)? I learned a basic dragon form but it was more wu shu dragon than anything. I'd like to learn more of a traditional dragon form with out all the wu shu moves.

[The Willow Sword]

http://www.eiaonline.com/uploaded_images/jessica-alba-749754.jpg

i wish this came with my academy sports and outdoors tent purchase:D


Peace,TWS

[sean_stonehart]

Hello all. Hello Baqualin. How is everyone taday? Has anyone learned anything interesting in the past couple days? Any new forms? does anyone know where I can find some information on Loong Ying (dragon style kung fu)? I learned a basic dragon form but it was more wu shu dragon than anything. I'd like to learn more of a traditional dragon form with out all the wu shu moves.


www.lungyingjingjung.com and trust me wushu dragon isn't anything like the real thing.

[brucereiter]

updated:
http://youtube.com/user/srmastergarygrooms

[Judge Pen]

http://www.eiaonline.com/uploaded_images/jessica-alba-749754.jpg

i wish this came with my academy sports and outdoors tent purchase:D


Peace,TWS

I just pitched a tent! :p

[sean_stonehart]

I just pitched a tent! :p

Ditto on that tent sale item!!

[Baqualin]

http://www.eiaonline.com/uploaded_images/jessica-alba-749754.jpg

i wish this came with my academy sports and outdoors tent purchase:D


Peace,TWS

WOW:D:eek::):p;) WS you just made my day.....fuk pitching a tent I'm in hers!!!!

[arinathos.valin]

Thanks to Judge Pen, I'm getting some really disturbing mental images..:(

[MasterKiller]

I just pitched a tent! :p

*sends email to JP's wife*

[The Willow Sword]

I have watched Jessica Alba Since the Days of "Dark Angel" and i gotta say that she is one of THE MOST if not THE most Beautiful representation of the female that i have EVER seen. All Around Perfect!!!!! TWS

[Shaolin Wookie]

Say Thank you... I had help, but the yoemen's amount of work was me.

LOL.........itdn that special.....

[Judge Pen]

*sends email to JP's wife*

No, I literally pitched a tent. One of those play-tents for my daughter's birthday party coming up. What were you guys thinking of? Jeez....

[Baqualin]

No, I literally pitched a tent. One of those play-tents for my daughter's birthday party coming up. What were you guys thinking of? Jeez....

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

[kwaichang]

Off the subject hows your Mom been KC:)

[The Willow Sword]

KC.

Mom is doing well. She is still working in Geriatrics and floating to a couple of Nursing facilities in cedar park , Round Rock and Marble Falls. She is "on call" for most of the facilities. All is well.
Tahnks for Asking, Peace, TWS

[mkriii]

Judge Pen....you said you found the old training manual that went to the t.v. show on KET. Is this the manual that has the spiral bound? I have this manual as well from when I studied at the Sport Center in 1984 or 85. Yes, he does call everything karate. The pictures in it are pretty funny. I thought I was the only one that had this book.

[Judge Pen]

Judge Pen....you said you found the old training manual that went to the t.v. show on PBS. Is this the manual that has the spiral bound? I have this manual as well from when I studied at the Sport Center in 1984 or 85. Yes, he does call everything karate. The pictures in it are pretty funny. I thought I was the only one that had this book.

Yes, its a spiral book that went with the KET "Karate" series.

[mkriii]

wow....I thought i was the only one that had that old thing. Does Sin The even still sell that book?

[mkriii]

Here is a question since we are talking about Sin The' and his books....On the cover of his newest book I guess he is standing in a crane stance, why on earth would you wear a pair of cheap looking tennis shoes for the cover of the book? It looks really crappy, almost like its bogus. If I were wanting to promote a book on Shaolin kung fu (or karate or whatever he calls it) I would look the part that I was playing, not wear a pair of dirty looking shoes.

[Judge Pen]

wow....I thought i was the only one that had that old thing. Does Sin The even still sell that book?

No, I didn't buy the book. A friend gave it to me--I'm not sure where he got it from.

[Judge Pen]

Here is a question since we are talking about Sin The' and his books....On the cover of his newest book I guess he is standing in a crane stance, why on earth would you wear a pair of cheap looking tennis shoes for the cover of the book? It looks really crappy, almost like its bogus. If I were wanting to promote a book on Shaolin kung fu (or karate or whatever he calls it) I would look the part that I was playing, not wear a pair of dirty looking shoes.

Maybe you should be his PR director. :p

[Flaca]

Here is a question since we are talking about Sin The' and his books....On the cover of his newest book I guess he is standing in a crane stance, why on earth would you wear a pair of cheap looking tennis shoes for the cover of the book? It looks really crappy, almost like its bogus. If I were wanting to promote a book on Shaolin kung fu (or karate or whatever he calls it) I would look the part that I was playing, not wear a pair of dirty looking shoes.

You probably don't wear a mullet either... and who cares about his shoes anyway? You think he should try for a Nike endorsement or something?

Are you Sarah Jessica Parker trolling?

[arinathos.valin]

It's "trolling" like that that has helped this thread get to near 500 pages... so don't knock the trolls!

Actually, he's not the only one who's got the same opinion about the tennis shoes. Perhaps more importantly, why don't they put out a new edition that corrects some of the inconsistencies and errors in the book?

[mkriii]

No, not a nike endorsment but there are shoes made specifically for martial arts such as pine tree, addidas, etc..... Even bare foot would have looked better than those nasty looking shoes.

Trolling? LMAO.

BTW personal appearance plays a big part when looking for a m.a. school. Wearing crappy clothes IMO is not the best way to attract students.

[sean_stonehart]

Actually, he's not the only one who's got the same opinion about the tennis shoes. Perhaps more importantly, why don't they put out a new edition that corrects some of the inconsistencies and errors in the book?


Some?? Why stop at "some"?? It'd be a great time to clear the air on (as my 4 yo stepdaughter says) "allit".

I say write a new one, skip the stories of Tripping the Light Fantastic or whatever & bare bones this thing with honesty & 100% unadulterated truth on what's what, from where, who, how & etc...

But then again I've been told I can't handle the truth but not nearly as cool as Jack would've told me. I'm still waiting to see what truth it is I can't handle.

[Lamassu]

But then again I've been told I can't handle the truth but not nearly as cool as Jack would've told me. I'm still waiting to see what truth it is I can't handle.

Well you're going to be waiting for a very long time, because the truth you're waiting for is the truth you can't handle, so by giving the truth that you're waiting for, will expose you to that which you can't handle and therefore the truth will BLOW YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!! :p

[arinathos.valin]

Lamassu has confused me...

mkriii- I put the "trolling" in quotes. Actually, some might consider me a troll as well, considering my past postings... albeit a very polite, and hopefully respectful troll :D

[sean_stonehart]

Well you're going to be waiting for a very long time, because the truth you're waiting for is the truth you can't handle, so by giving the truth that you're waiting for, will expose you to that which you can't handle and therefore the truth will BLOW YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!! :p

Eh... you'd be surprised... I've been exposed to lots & have high tolerance levels bordering on almost insane... minus pain... that's not so high...

C'mon 500...

[Lamassu]

What happened to the last person that was told the all elusive 'truth' behind the sordid history of Shaolin Do...

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[mkriii]

Well I stopped in at the Sin The school to meet Baqualin like I said I would do but he wasn't there. The only person there was a lady with blonde hair sitting at the counter where they sell the swords and stuff so I left. I might go back in a few days. It was about 4:30 in the afternoon when I stopped by.

[Judge Pen]

Well I stopped in at the Sin The school to meet Baqualin like I said I would do but he wasn't there. The only person there was a lady with blonde hair sitting at the counter where they sell the swords and stuff so I left. I might go back in a few days. It was about 4:30 in the afternoon when I stopped by.


Just a suggestion: Why don't you make arrangements with BQ so he can be there when you pop in?