Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

anyone heard what the new form GMS is going to teach yet

The next weapon will be a Large Sickle...this spring.....Small Sickle this fall.
BQ

[kwaichang]

Do You mean like the Japanese Kama ?? KC

[Baqualin]

Do You mean like the Japanese Kama ?? KC


Correct.
BQ

[shen ku]

thank you,,, but what do you mean my a large stick??

[Lokhopkuen]

thank you,,, but what do you mean my a large stick??

Is this a Shaolin Do staff form?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=31991510

[shen ku]

sorry looked again and seen it said sickle?? so i guess we have a new weapon to by?

[kwaichang]

Yes that Bo staff form comes from our Northern Bear style although that is much greater than some I have seen perform it. KC

[Lokhopkuen]

:d:d lol! :d:d

[shen ku]

does anyone know what the large sickle looks like or have a pic?

[Baqualin]

does anyone know what the large sickle looks like or have a pic?

Here's the schedule.
March = 1st road of single sickle
September = 1st road of double sickle

Just google it for a picture.
BQ

[Leto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shi_dejian.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1decheng_26_.JPG

are they sickles like these?

[kwaichang]

Happy Birthday JP KC

[Baqualin]

Happy Birthday JP KC

I second that:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
BQ

[Old Noob]

I second that:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
BQ

Happy birthday!

[Judge Pen]

Thanks. Im aging like fine wine

[shen ku]

any ideas on the best book on pa kua?

[Baqualin]

any ideas on the best book on pa kua?

Anything by Dr. John Painter, Jerry Allen Johson & Joseph Crandall, Yang Wing Ming or Adam Hsu.
Re: Jerry & Joseph's book Pakua Chang fighting systems & weapons is out of print...awesome book on pakua in general...you can still find a copy on line. If your looking for books to show how to really use Baqua, I highly recomend Dr. Painters Combat Baguazhang Nine Dragon System...vol. 1&2.....it's straight to the point, no BS.......his methods are proven on the street.........any questions PM me with your contact info.
BQ

[brucereiter]

any ideas on the best book on pa kua?

if you are asking for the jiang rong qiao style of pakua learned in sd check out the below translation:

classical baguazhang
bagua lian-xi fa_by jiang rong qiao_translated by joseph crandall_97 pages


andrea falk also has a good translation of the above book.
=============================================


the below book is about i different style of pakua but it does have some good information.
emei bagua zhang _theory and application_liang shou-yu &yang jwing-ming_361 pages,softbound,

[Judge Pen]

if you are asking for the jiang rong qiao style of pakua learned in sd check out the below translation:

classical baguazhang
bagua lian-xi fa_by jiang rong qiao_translated by joseph crandall_97 pages


andrea falk also has a good translation of the above book.
=============================================


the below book is about i different style of pakua but it does have some good information.
emei bagua zhang _theory and application_liang shou-yu &yang jwing-ming_361 pages,softbound,

I have these translations and they are very helpful.

[Wildwoo]

Man this thread just keeps going!
Tenacity coolness;)

[shen ku]

or just a bunch of hard heads???

[shen ku]

getting slow in here

[Baqualin]

getting slow in here

Did you check out any of the Baqua books I recommended.
BQ

[naja]

getting slow in here

Has been for a while now. We only need 61 more posts to hit the 1k mark. Maybe someone can dig up some more crap on SD that can keep this thread going until then......... :eek:

[shen ku]

i have found the books on line but i haven't gotten them yet... cash? story of my life. but have seen some interesting youtube videos my typing jiang rong qiao?

[kwaichang]

I remember the old days before all the hype. When I started I wanted to have the skills of the old Shao lin I used to try to walk on TP / rice paper with out tearing it for hours and dreamed of wearing the Tiger and Dragon on my fore arms. What happened to the dreams of old ???? KC

[tattooedmonk]

Anyone remember the 7 Hands of the Preying Mantis.............????

http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/Articles/leaking%20from%20the%20bottom.htm



I found this a while ago.....look familiar???The illustrations @ the bottom of the page show hands 1-3


This should shake things up a little!!!!

[kwaichang]

It doesnt look similar to the 7 hands I learned KC

[tattooedmonk]

It doesnt look similar to the 7 hands I learned KC Try looking at it in abstract form.Seven Hands of the Preying Mantis/ Tang Lang Chi Sou- Stationary Training/ Ting Pu Lian Si

#1 Smack Hand ( Yung Sou) This is where we are smacking with the back hand towards the head( Biatch Slap ). They are crossing (R) hands

#2 Penetrating Hand (Cha Sou), This is where we trap the (R) arm with the (L) hand and finger thrust towards the eyes . They are doing a ( R) Mantis hook then (L) hand blocks (R) then (R) palm strike to the chin ( if you read the captions it says that it is normally done with a finger thrust)....... then (L) raising forearm block( Same). (L) Hand cuts under and Grabs (L) arm ( Same)......

It isnt exactly the same but it is similar..............

Then ours goes #3 Smacking Fist ( Kwan Chien ) Their's is #3 Smacking Fist............

[Baqualin]

Anyone remember the 7 Hands of the Preying Mantis.............????

http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/Articles/leaking%20from%20the%20bottom.htm



I found this a while ago.....look familiar???The illustrations @ the bottom of the page show hands 1-3


This should shake things up a little!!!!

There still taught here in the lower level classes.
BQ

[kwaichang]

Just validates further, our SD System. KC

[tattooedmonk]

Just validates further, our SD System. KCEXactly!!!!!!

[Baqualin]

Just validates further, our SD System. KC

There's no need to bring up things to validate a system that has validated itself by existing and sustaining growth for 45 years(like us or not.....one claim no one can deny)How many schools in this country can claim that.
BQ

[kwaichang]

There are those who question the validity of any thing whether it has been around a long time or not or with growth or not. Many seem to want proof well this just another way to proove the substance is real KC

[kwaichang]

I have recently had an injury and have not trained as I like for a while , I trained yesterday and although I did not train super hard I had a good productive W/O with no pain after it or the next day KC

[kwaichang]

Have any of you guys with tendon or ligament injuries tried Prolotherapy??? KC

[shen ku]

what is it?

[kwaichang]

Prolotherapy is the use of the body's natural healing process but enhanced through the use of a precise injection of a sugar ladden substance . see prolotherapynashville.com KC

[tattooedmonk]

There's no need to bring up things to validate a system that has validated itself by existing and sustaining growth for 45 years(like us or not.....one claim no one can deny)How many schools in this country can claim that.
BQIts not that it validates the system and the schools,( they are more than valid), as much as it shows that the content is the same as any other Chinese based martial art. Hell, many websites use SD's lists of temples and material taught ,etc.

I just like seeing what I have learned from SD in Chinese/other martial arts systems that deny the VALIDITY of SD.

[tattooedmonk]

Prolotherapy is the use of the body's natural healing process but enhanced through the use of a precise injection of a sugar ladden substance . see prolotherapynashville.com KC I have heard of it. oriental medical doctors have been doing this for centuries using herbal formulas.

It is not common practice now but a few still use it .

Hey KC , not that it matters but, I just found out that my dads family is originally from Tenn. although they moved to Ark. in the 1800s. I did not know this.

Its amazing who you can find on the net. I recently found that I actually have family/ cousins and aunts that I did not knowwere alive or even existed.

Hell, I thought ,until recently, that I was alone in this world. Found my mother and blood cousins, etc.

www.Ancestry.com works!!!

[Shaolin Wookie]

:rolleyes:....there's no validity in SD per se except what's on your black belt certificate and whatever color bruise you leave on the person you punch. It's a Shibboleth. It's an vivisectified-raised-from-the-dead-Werewolf-merman/maid-cross-dressing-cross-style system. I like it. But it is what it is. Dr. Frankenstein's weird manimal.

Anways...what's up? Haven't been on this board in like a year. Nothing's probably changed, LOL.

Just dropping by to show off this ****ing cool clip. These Cheng Man Ching cats are very skilled. I wish the lame tai chi apps I learned hadn't fallen so far from the mother-tree (but then, most tai chi apps I've seen elsewhere suck too unless you're playing pattycake). These ones make far more sense...LOL...esp. against a right lead. I love the low-single whip fireman's carry into a throw....LOL. Didn't have anyone to show them to, and then I thought of my homeboys here at the Kung Fu Fizorum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0H_z9y3O6I&feature=related

Take it easy y'all. See you next year.;)

[Baqualin]

:rolleyes:....there's no validity in SD per se except what's on your black belt certificate and whatever color bruise you leave on the person you punch. It's a Shibboleth. It's an vivisectified-raised-from-the-dead-Werewolf-merman/maid-cross-dressing-cross-style system. I like it. But it is what it is. Dr. Frankenstein's weird manimal.

Anways...what's up? Haven't been on this board in like a year. Nothing's probably changed, LOL.

Just dropping by to show off this ****ing cool clip. These Cheng Man Ching cats are very skilled. I wish the lame tai chi apps I learned hadn't fallen so far from the mother-tree (but then, most tai chi apps I've seen elsewhere suck too unless you're playing pattycake). These ones make far more sense...LOL...esp. against a right lead. I love the low-single whip fireman's carry into a throw....LOL. Didn't have anyone to show them to, and then I thought of my homeboys here at the Kung Fu Fizorum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0H_z9y3O6I&feature=related

Take it easy y'all. See you next year.;)

Hey Wook....everybody thought you went over the hill...glad you stopped in.

Don't know who taught you apps. but I see nothing new from what we're taught (or I teach)...don't like sliding my arm under someone's armpit though...your asking to end up on the ground with a broken arm or dislocated shoulder.....I had rather go over the top and utilize the neck. GMS years ago taught 4 or 5 apps for each posture...someone down there should know these....try and find them, they're pretty cool.

Sanjuro posted some apps on the Taji thread a while back that I thought were more combat oriented...I'll see if I can find the link.
The trouble with most Tai Chi apps is they work great against a non resistive person but, would not be very effective against a resistive attacker.
Keep Standing,
BQ

[brucereiter]

Just dropping by to show off this ****ing cool clip. These Cheng Man Ching cats are very skilled. I wish the lame tai chi apps I learned hadn't fallen so far from the mother-tree (but then, most tai chi apps I've seen elsewhere suck too unless you're playing pattycake). These ones make far more sense...LOL...esp. against a right lead. I love the low-single whip fireman's carry into a throw....LOL. Didn't have anyone to show them to, and then I thought of my homeboys here at the Kung Fu Fizorum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0H_z9y3O6I&feature=related

Take it easy y'all. See you next year.;)

my offer still stands ... if you would like to see/feel a "different" approach to applying tai chi chuan look me up ... i am curious about the lame ass tai chi apps you "learned"? i agree that many people have a very limited understanding and approach to tai chi chuan and ima in general. if you want to understand it you need to seek out people who can guide you and also actually study and practice ... you have said before that tai chi chaun does not interest you so i am not surprised that you have not gotten anything from it ...

[Baqualin]

my offer still stands ... if you would like to see/feel a "different" approach to applying tai chi chuan look me up ... i am curious about the lame ass tai chi apps you "learned"? i agree that many people have a very limited understanding and approach to tai chi chuan and ima in general. if you want to understand it you need to seek out people who can guide you and also actually study and practice ... you have said before that tai chi chaun does not interest you so i am not surprised that you have not gotten anything from it ...

Look him up Wookie...I think you might be impressed.
BQ

[kungfujunky]

my man bruce will get to throw me around soon!

really looking forward to it!

[brucereiter]

my man bruce will get to throw me around soon!

really looking forward to it!

april 30 ... i will be in denver. see ya then :-)

[tattooedmonk]

I was just reading an old Dragon's Tale in which you wrote about the internal arts and the 64 posture Yang Tai Chi .Good Stuff!!

[brucereiter]

I was just reading an old Dragon's Tale in which you wrote about the internal arts and the 64 posture Yang Tai Chi .Good Stuff!!

thanks ...

is this the one?

Body method.
By Bruce reiter
2nd black sash

Here at the Chinese shaolin center we have the opportunity to learn a wide variety of martial arts in a relatively short time. There are many pros and cons to this. One advantage is the exposure to a great number of ideas and different paths to similar goals. One thing that could hinder your growth in each individual art is blurring the moves together and doing the different styles with the same intention.

There is a tendency to perform various different styles with the same intention or “body method”. What I mean by “body method” is a way of moving your body specific to the principals of each art.

When you practice try to apply the principals specific to the style you are doing, do not just go through the motions try to make each move count. study each move and each transition and try to find your own meaning and understanding based on the principals specific to each style. If you have a question just ask one of the instructors and they will share their insight. You may have heard the saying “hit the bell with a big rock and get a big sound” well I say ask a big question and get a big answer.

Hsingi chuan, pakua chang and tai chi chuan all have different ways of using your body. By studying, practicing, understanding and applying all of the principals specific to each art you will gain the “body method” specific to each art. In my opinion only then will you gain all of the health and martial benefits available to you from the material presented to us.

Using yang 64 tai chi chuan as an example how many of us remember the “first day notes” we received upon our first day learning yang 64 tai chi chuan? Do you apply the advice given in those 6 points? If you have you are on the way to having the correct “body method” to practice yang 64 tai chi chuan. If not please consider studying them and applying them to your practice.

Summery of Chinese shaolin center first day yang 64 tai chi chuan notes.

1.) Breathing- don't think about it yet, just inhale/exhale slowly and deeply into the belly.

2.) Posture- head straight, shoulders relaxed, elbows down and back straight. Don't lock out joints

3.) Stepping- step forward lead with heel, step backwards leads with toes. Don't clunk! Knee does not go past toes. Body moves as one unit, everything starts and stops at the same time.

4.) Stance- heels on same line feet point about 45 degrees in same direction

5.) Form flow- continuous, slow and even, there are no choppy movements, the whole form should take at least 15 minutes.

6.) Focus- vision is generally on out going limb or direction you are moving. Do not think about anything else. Concentrate on each technique and transition individually.

I have found great values in all of the material that has been presented to me so far and thank each of my teachers and all of my fellow students for their time and effort.
This is my first time writing about martial arts so please forgive any lack of understanding and deficiency in writing I may have presented.

[tattooedmonk]

sir , it is!!!!

[shen ku]

anyone going to be at the seminar this weekend in lex?

[Baqualin]

anyone going to be at the seminar this weekend in lex?

I've already had it....wanted to go anyway, just to go through it again.....other things have came up......Kwaichang should be there. Stop by the school on Sat. between 10 & 12 and introduce yourself sometime.
BQ

[One student]

For the SD students here, did anyone attend yesterday's Lexington Seminar on Liu Hsing, who also took it the first time around? For those who are more knowledgeable about other threads/discussion lists, is there another one that that question (and related follow ups) can be asked?

[shen ku]

ONe student , i was there and have had the first part before,, what are you asking about??

[One student]

Thank you Shen Ku, I sent PM.

[shen ku]

its like a ghost town on here?

[Old Noob]

The great debate has finally ended. For real. Most definitely. :D

[David Jamieson]

no...no it hasn't. :p

wait and see...

wait, I'll start.

Shaolin Do is real.

But it's NOT shaolin.

[Old Noob]

no...no it hasn't. :p

wait and see...

wait, I'll start.

Shaolin Do is real.

But it's NOT shaolin.

I think that one was handled around page 300 or so.:o

[David Jamieson]

I think that one was handled around page 300 or so.:o

hmmm.

Ok, Shaolin Do is NOT real, it's a figment of the imagination of an indonesian kempo guy who wasn't makin no money in Kentucky. :p

[Old Noob]

hmmm.

Ok, Shaolin Do is NOT real, it's a figment of the imagination of an indonesian kempo guy who wasn't makin no money in Kentucky. :p

See posts 1-9500:eek:

[David Jamieson]

See posts 1-9500:eek:

Hmmm, it's hard to admit when you're wrong.

It's even harder to admit it when you've been actively wrong for as long as you thought what you were doing was right, and now it's 20 years later and you're tainted and don't even want to go out and learn something that's real because you would be even more ticked to waste another decade of your life?

How about that? :)

[Judge Pen]

Hmmm, it's hard to admit when you're wrong.

It's even harder to admit it when you've been actively wrong for as long as you thought what you were doing was right, and now it's 20 years later and you're tainted and don't even want to go out and learn something that's real because you would be even more ticked to waste another decade of your life?

How about that? :)

Already been covered and countered to a degree by your point in post "Its real but not real shaolin."

[David Jamieson]

well, isn't this just a dead thread then! :p

[MasterKiller]

hmmm.

Ok, Shaolin Do is NOT real, it's a figment of the imagination of an indonesian kempo guy who wasn't makin no money in Kentucky. :p

I have some pictures of Sin's teacher. He looks like the guy in the paintings on the website, and he's training. What he taught Sin and what Sin taught himself is impossible to distinguish over a message board, but I would wager the old Indonesian guy wasn't doing Kempo. The core is probably an Indonesian blend of Chinese and indigenous arts.

In the pictures, no one is wearing a NASCAR Gi. And they are wearing shoes....;)

[Baqualin]

I have some pictures of Sin's teacher. He looks like the guy in the paintings on the website, and he's training. What he taught Sin and what Sin taught himself is impossible to distinguish over a message board, but I would wager the old Indonesian guy wasn't doing Kempo. The core is probably an Indonesian blend of Chinese and indigenous arts.

In the pictures, no one is wearing a NASCAR Gi. And they are wearing shoes....;)

MK...I think you just nailed it about as well as anybody.....I have videos of the White Lotus Society in Bandung performing Shaolin Do forms at the 92 banquet honoring GM Sin.... they are not Kempo. GM Sin claims to be the Grand Master of Shaolin Do..... not Shaolin.
BQ

[Baqualin]

#15
04-03-2009, 06:46 PM

RD'S Alias - 1A
The Emperor!!

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmd161
I commend Mr. Ross on what he is doing with teaching fighting and Sanda. I want to know why aren't more doing this, and why isn't Mr. Ross taking some of his top fighters and now teaching them the forms, so they have a better understanding of the forms and techniques?


I could very well be wrong, and Mr. Ross might already be doing this...


I really feel most schools don't do this because the skills and techniques have already been lost. If you learn from someone that has never fought and they learned from someone who never fought...How could they teach you to fight?

Who knows, maybe my sifu has it all wrong and is breaking the trend... He always teaches to evolve and keep testing the art and make changes where needed. According to him this is traditional and the exact way his sifu taught him. In creating Hak Fu Mun So Hak Fu took the knowledge of 17 different styles of kung fu and created the 5 original forms. Later At his school in Canton he taught well over 50 forms. When Grandmaster Wong Cheung died in 1989 Hak Fu Mun had over 100 forms.

I think when the fighting stopped and people tried to keep things secret they misunderstood what keeping secret meant. It didn't mean to not test or share.... since most styles where created from the blending of different styles and meeting of masters.

Again, I could be completely wrong too....


jeff
Reply]
All the original usage of Kung Fu was preserved in Indonesia. That is why everyone respects all these Kuntao Silat guys.
__________________
Royal Dragon's secret Alias profile for trolling.

I thought this was an interesting statement.
BQ

[MasterKiller]

MK...I think you just nailed it about as well as anybody.....I have videos of the White Lotus Society in Bandung performing Shaolin Do forms at the 92 banquet honoring GM Sin.... they are not Kempo. GM Sin claims to be the Grand Master of Shaolin Do..... not Shaolin.
BQ

Well, the claims he's made about links to Southern temple are inventive, at best. I mean, if you use "Shaolin" as an umbrella term, that's one thing. But hairy monks and whatnot, well...that's a hard pill to swallow, even if they were just bedtime stories told by his grandpa.

[Baqualin]

Well, the claims he's made about links to Southern temple are inventive, at best. I mean, if you use "Shaolin" as an umbrella term, that's one thing. But hairy monks and whatnot, well...that's a hairy pill to swallow, even if they were just bedtime stories told by his grandpa.

There fixed it for you:)
BQ

[Fist of Death]

MK,

Would you care to post a few of the pics you have of GM Ie? Not doubting you, I would just like to see them. We rarely get to see any photos from Indo.

Thanks,

[MasterKiller]

MK,

Would you care to post a few of the pics you have of GM Ie? Not doubting you, I would just like to see them. We rarely get to see any photos from Indo.

Thanks,

I got them from a guy who swore he was going to post them himself, so I promised I wouldn't. That was 2 years ago, so maybe it's time.

While I'm mulling posting them, here are the example pics I posted so people wouldn't think I was lying about it:

Ie:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4247&d=1197051671

Young Sin The with Ie:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4245&d=1197047194

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4246&d=1197049613

I'm not 100% sure that's Sin, but the facial structure is similar.

[Fist of Death]

Thanks for the pics.

[Old Noob]

There was a poster here about a year ago (I can't remember his name now) who said some cryptic things about SD, Indonesia, and Kun Tao that sounded positive. If I recall, he didn't want to share the results until he had confirmed them. Would have been interesting to know what he was talking about.

[Baqualin]

I got them from a guy who swore he was going to post them himself, so I promised I wouldn't. That was 2 years ago, so maybe it's time.

While I'm mulling posting them, here are the example pics I posted so people wouldn't think I was lying about it:

Ie:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4247&d=1197051671

Young Sin The with Ie:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4245&d=1197047194

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4246&d=1197049613

I'm not 100% sure that's Sin, but the facial structure is similar.

It's not GM Sin in those pictures......I also got the same pictures from the infamous Wyatt Earp...who claimed his teacher studied under GM Ie....as you know I'm very close to GM Sin and I have shown him the pictures and discussed this with him....once again GM Ie would only teach Chinese...he wouldn't even teach Indonesian's....I called Earp out on this and he had no response. These pictures are most likely from one of Hiang's students or someone else fuking with everybody.

Just wanting to keep the record straight for the SD peeps.

Plus maybe we can make it to a 1,000 before this thread finally dies.
BQ

[Baqualin]

There was a poster here about a year ago (I can't remember his name now) who said some cryptic things about SD, Indonesia, and Kun Tao that sounded positive. If I recall, he didn't want to share the results until he had confirmed them. Would have been interesting to know what he was talking about.

Mas Judt.....I touch base with him ever so often....really nice guy....he's busy doing his own thing right now......he knows a lot regarding Indo MA's.
BQ

[lkfmdc]

I don't have anything to add, just want to keep posting in this monster of a thread

OK< I do have something to say

ONLY Rd could believe that the only place "real usage" is left is INdonesia :rolleyes:

[Baqualin]

I got them from a guy who swore he was going to post them himself, so I promised I wouldn't. That was 2 years ago, so maybe it's time.

Maybe he was afraid if you posted the rest we would know where they came from:)

[MasterKiller]

It's not GM Sin in those pictures......I also got the same pictures from the infamous Wyatt Earp...who claimed his teacher studied under GM Ie....as you know I'm very close to GM Sin and I have shown him the pictures and discussed this with him....once again GM Ie would only teach Chinese...he wouldn't even teach Indonesian's....I called Earp out on this and he had no response. These pictures are most likely from one of Hiang's students or someone else fuking with everybody.

Just wanting to keep the record straight for the SD peeps.

Plus maybe we can make it to a 1,000 before this thread finally dies.
BQ

Is that Ie or not?

I'm not defending Earp, but he basically quit posting because he thought you (personally) were too hard-headed in light of the photos he was offering, which he assumed was because you didn't want to admit Ie was related to Sin.

At any rate, why not post the pictures yourself?

[Baqualin]

I don't have anything to add, just want to keep posting in this monster of a thread

OK< I do have something to say

ONLY Rd could believe that the only place "real usage" is left is INdonesia :rolleyes:

I figured that would get a rise out of you...thanks for dropping by.
Mucho respect
BQ

[sanjuro_ronin]

This thread needs:

[Baqualin]

Is that Ie or not?


Most likely

I'm not defending Earp, but he basically quit posting because he thought you (personally) were too hard-headed in light of the photos he was offering.

In regards to his claims I still am:)

[MasterKiller]

In regards to his claims I still am:)

He assumed it was because you didn't want to admit Ie was related to Sin.

So why not post the pics yourself?

[Baqualin]

This thread needs:

Way to go SR, take us to 10,000 in style:D
BQ

[Baqualin]

He assumed it was because you didn't want to admit Ie was related to Sin.

I didn't have a problem with that.....only the claims that his sifu studied under GM Ie....not true.

So why not post the pics yourself?

As close as I am to the heart it might be considered disrespectful by the powers above me and I will not do that.
BQ

[Baqualin]

2 down 1 to go.
BQ

[Baqualin]

Done....were there.:D

[MasterKiller]

As close as I am to the heart it might be considered disrespectful by the powers above me and I will not do that.
BQ

OK, so it that Ie in the photo?

[Baqualin]

OK, so it that Ie in the photo?

I already answered that.:confused: post 9995

[bodhi warrior]

I'm confused. Why would it be disrespectful?

[Baqualin]

I'm confused. Why would it be disrespectful?

Not my pictures...not my place....if GM Sin wanted pictures posted it would be on the website.
BQ

[shen ku]

i dont get it,, i check this thing everyday for weeks on end and nothing,,,,,,turn my back for one day and BAM,,,,,it goes over

[MasterKiller]

I already answered that.:confused: post 9995

My bad. I didn't see it in the quote, there.

OK, so let me ask you this. If that is Ie, and that's a white guy standing there with him, and posing with him in that Mantis stance, why wouldn't you assume he trained there? And what about the LARGE white man in the group photo wearing the Japanese Gi? He looks as if he's training somewhere.

You think this white guy just showed up, took some pictures, and is now clamining he trained there? It's plausible, people do that sh1t now. But is it probable?

[Baqualin]

My bad. I didn't see it in the quote, there.

OK, so let me ask you this. If that is Ie, and that's a white guy standing there with him, and posing with him in that Mantis stance, why wouldn't you assume he trained there? And what about the LARGE white man in the group photo wearing the Japanese Gi? He looks as if he's training somewhere.

You think this white guy just showed up, took some pictures, and is now clamining he trained there? It's plausible, people do that sh1t now. But is it probable?

I was mainly speaking of the photo of him with Hiang (that you cropped out), I will have to go back and look at the others.....yes it's very probable it was a visit to the area....GM Sin has always been very direct about GM Ie only teaching chinese....in the beginning he was not happy with GM Sin teaching us. Regarding the group photo I do know there was a well known Judo teacher there that GM Sin studied under (to black belt) before he decided to concentrate on SD...maybe thats who they came to visit who knows. The real clincher to me was the photo with Hiang that you cropped out....only his students would have that...not somebody from Holland. There's also a school in Brazil called the Pakua School (they have schools in the states also) the head of that school also claims to have studied under GM Ie in the 50's..... no way.

[Baqualin]

Here's the uncropped picture with Hiang & the mantis picture.....it's hard to tell if there the same

[MasterKiller]

Here's the uncropped picture with Hiang & the mantis picture.....it's hard to tell if there the same

Actually, that Hiang pic is cropped. There are some other dudes in the uncropped picture, including the white guy in the mantis stance photo.

[MasterKiller]

The color picture of Ie blocking the strike from the white guy shows his profile more clearly, also. That's the one that looks most like Ie in the paintings, imo.

[shen ku]

please post these pics , i would love to see them

[One student]

I've seen on this thread talk about repeating unverified second hand stories as truth, and critiquing the credibility of comments and tales from hundreds of years ago, and the practices of historians and the validity of their theories, and benefits of accurate archaeology. The so-called photos of GM Su Kong, or that circus guy, were promoted as "proof" of something, although I don't think it proved anything.

Several once used the absence of photo evidence of GM Ie as proof of something as well.

But here are other actual photos -- history itself -- that some of you are fortunate enough to be able to speak of, and see, and tease the rest of us that are truly interested in, and interested in that history, but not fortunate enough to have the photos.

Such photos are our closest connection to that past that we want to be a small part of. Just seeing the cropped ones, and hearing the talk of them, is educational.

It is truly none of our business who don't have the photos, unless someone else invites us to see them, and no one could legitimately fault anyone who has them to keep them to themselves. But I would second Shen Ku's request for posting what you are speaking to each other about.

[kwaichang]

We finally made it , just wanted to contribute to the thread. KC

[MasterKiller]

I've seen on this thread talk about repeating unverified second hand stories as truth, and critiquing the credibility of comments and tales from hundreds of years ago, and the practices of historians and the validity of their theories, and benefits of accurate archaeology. The so-called photos of GM Su Kong, or that circus guy, were promoted as "proof" of something, although I don't think it proved anything.

Several once used the absence of photo evidence of GM Ie as proof of something as well.

But here are other actual photos -- history itself -- that some of you are fortunate enough to be able to speak of, and see, and tease the rest of us that are truly interested in, and interested in that history, but not fortunate enough to have the photos.

Such photos are our closest connection to that past that we want to be a small part of. Just seeing the cropped ones, and hearing the talk of them, is educational.

It is truly none of our business who don't have the photos, unless someone else invites us to see them, and no one could legitimately fault anyone who has them to keep them to themselves. But I would second Shen Ku's request for posting what you are speaking to each other about.
I feel you brother. I'm sympathetic.

I did promise this guy not to post them until his teacher put up a website, which was supposed to take 6 months.

I believe Baqualin, who has been very vocal about the authenticity of these photos, did not have the complete, uncropped photos that I have, so I shared them with him. Now that we are on the same page, I am curious to see what Baqualin has to say.

[MasterKiller]

Hey,
Is BentMonk still around? When I saw this, I thought of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4pTDx_YXU

Definitely inspirational.

[David Jamieson]

even more inspiring than that guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZgSZItI5k

[Baqualin]

even more inspiring than that guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZgSZItI5k

You know I love you Canadians;)
BQ

[Baqualin]

Hey,
Is BentMonk still around? When I saw this, I thought of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4pTDx_YXU

Definitely inspirational.

He's training!!!! Inspirational to all of us.....people like him make SD real:) It's made a difference in his life and he's made a difference in ours.
BQ

[shen ku]

has anyone seen the article on the sword of legend? GM Sin in BB mag, its a nice story,with nice pics

[Baqualin]

Hey all SD peeps....come join us this Saturday (Lexington Gym) from 12 to 1:30 for World Tai Chi Day.....Pot Luck....lots of great food.....push hands and more....great chance to get together!!!!!!
BQ

[goju]

LISTEN TO ME AND LISTEN WELL PEOPLE

when i wa sfifteen i joined that crappy shaoLIN do school in colrado run BY david and sharon soard the place IS A TOTAL SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was excited cuz i always wanted to learn sholin but the the whole thing is a scam
i kicked the crap outta there blackbelts in the first months and i barely had any training prior to that


the stuff dosnt even look like kung fu it looks liKE some horribly lame karate style its ineffective and they practically hand away belts

DO NOT JOIN THIS ORGANIZATION THEY ARE FRAUDS AND ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITHTHE SHAOIN TEMPLE IN ANY WAY


DEFINITE MC DOJO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bodhi warrior]

Your experience with sd is unfortunately becoming the norm. People have become so obsessed with learning the next new form that they don't take the time to master what they have. And yes they do give the belts away. I've seen people promoted who had no idea what they're doing. Then they get to teach! The way the art is taught now has reduced a once capable art to nothing.
I can only speak for material before 2000, but your right, the material doesn't look like shaolin temple Kung fu of today. And that's a good thing. There are people out there that teach the art correctly but most are not affiliated with the sda or the csc schools for obvious reasons. Master hiang seems to have stayed on the right course. And has remained true to his art.

[goju]

and come on relly they wear karate uniforms and wear belts lol yeah thats kung fu!

united studios of self defense is pulling this scam as well

[One student]

Goju:

May I ask, how long ago was it that you were 15 and tried that school? I've never met the Soards, and have only heard stories about how they run the schools there, but it really isn't fair to judge all practioners of SD by that single experience.

When I first started in martial arts, I trained in TKD, and my teacher, a Vietnam combat veteran, was very skilled, and emphasized to me basics and fundamentals, and I was proud to call him my teacher and my freind. On the other hand, there's a local TKD school I've visited, run by a well respected very high ranking Korean TKD Master, of international renown, but quite frankly I would be ashamed to perform the way most of those students do, including their instructors. If I judged the entire style by the way the local school looked, I would have a very bad impression of TKD, from only one small segment.

After my TKD school closed, I joined a SD school, and have been with it (off and on) ever since, and with other styles and schools along the way. I have had (due to travel and school closings) four direct SD instructors, before attending the Lexington school regularly, and having the benefit of at least four instructors there, including GM Sin and his brother, and others. I have seen practitioners, with rank, even teachers, that clearly wouldn't qualify for it under any accepted objective standard. I suspect that when I was promoted, the standards were much lesser than when my teachers obtained the same rank long before me. There was a time when 3d Black and up was very rare, I can remeber a time there were less than half a dozen third or above; now it is very commonplace. I would guess there are very few today who could meet the Temple standards even to get in, much less get through.

But I have also seen, and had the honor of training with, and being taught by, SD practictioners who would hold their own or better with any martial artist out there from any style. And I don't mean just in class, but in real world experience. Quite frankly, most of them keep to themselves and do not flaunt their skill, and some of the best are hardly known. But their example is worth emulating.

The point I think is, like with almost anything, what you are given is worth what you do with it. I have seen students taught material, and they enjoyed learning about it, but they clearly have little or no concept of what it is, and maybe never will. Others, in the same class, take the material to their heart, and train it and train it and study it from every angle they can. Those are not the examples you, Goju, talk about.

Its not much different than my daughter's high school softball team. Some of the girls -- a few only -- have been playing all their lives and live it and play like champions. Some don't really care and are just playing around. Some might wonder how some of them got on the team. They can have their fun and there's nothing wrong with that. One might visit the team, and have very negative opinions about their play as a whole, but for a few. But their level of effort and skill does not mean those who have worked long and hard and have achieved much, are worthless. And it doesn't mean softball is crap, in general.

Find me any style of martial art, or any school, that you can't somewhere, maybe even easily, find the same things you found in Colorado.

And as for uniforms: I've recently been researching video of Chinese masters, including archival footage collected of Yip Man. They never wore uniforms of any kind, but just put on whatever shirt and pants they find, and train. Uniforms are a manufactured skin, or a costume for theater or performances. Even the "uniforms" at the temple were nothing more than peasant clothing, other than the ceremonial religious dress. Am I wrong? The impressions of so-called "kung fu" uniforms are adoptions from movies, in my opinion. And the origin of wearing gi's in SD has been explained and debated here and elsewhere ad nauseum. Some of the SD schools have changed uniforms to avoid just the criticism you make, I think including in Colorado (?).

Someone recently told me a story about a trip to Japan, and a tour to museums and the like, and how it was told, even by the Japanese, of how much of the tradition of Japan originally came from China, from basic agriculture, to martial arts weapons considered "traditional" Japanese or Okinawan, acknowledged to have originated from China in very many instances. It was noted by the storyteller to me, that it wouldn't be surprising to someday find the same is true for the traditional gi, but that is just my speculation. Who cares?

If you are truly interested in the styles and forms and concepts of Chinese martial arts, from the SD perspective, I would encourage you to look beyond the outside, and to look deeper than one school, one teacher, or even one branch, and sample more than one school, maybe even several, before making up your mind. And not to generalize everyone because of one, or even because of many. Unless your mind is already made up, which sometimes seems to be the case.

Just my opinion, it might mean nothing.

[goju]

the school is run horribly. david soard babbles on and on about his favorite kung fu movie endlessley and mocks other masters in kung fu tai chi

for being a elder master he is incredibly stiff and cant throw a decent kick to save his life.
he dosnt teach his students humilty as the many of the blackbelts prance around likeir unstoppable through out the school

and plus as i i noted their stuff dosnt even resemble kung fu in the least it looks like some horribly made up karate
as far as the gi goes yes there are no such thing as kung fu unifroms as the standard kung fu uniform that most people are aware of are just standard chinese dress clothes
how ever it is known that the gi is a siganture of japanese and korean martial styles and that no kung fu practiconers are known to wear them thus further discrediting the school

futher if you google shaoilin do itself you will find many disgruntled ex studnets as well that say the same thing i do


during my tenure at the school i did not see any high demonstration of skill ffrom the master or any of his advanced students in fact as i noted i defeated many of their black belts and that was at the time i barely knew any thing at all


plus like the united studios of self defense they are not reckonized by the shaolin temple
in fact i recall seeing a blog about man who put his son i usosd program and he contacted the shoilin temle and the abbot never even heard of them before and was thinking of taking legal action

the same rings true for shaoiln do in fact i think they and united studios are both the same scam

[Old Noob]

the school is run horribly. david soard babbles on and on about his favorite kung fu movie endlessley and mocks other masters in kung fu tai chi

for being a elder master he is incredibly stiff and cant throw a decent kick to save his life.
he dosnt teach his students humilty as the many of the blackbelts prance around likeir unstoppable through out the school

and plus as i i noted their stuff dosnt even resemble kung fu in the least it looks like some horribly made up karate
as far as the gi goes yes there are no such thing as kung fu unifroms as the standard kung fu uniform that most people are aware of are just standard chinese dress clothes
how ever it is known that the gi is a siganture of japanese and korean martial styles and that no kung fu practiconers are known to wear them thus further discrediting the school

futher if you google shaoilin do itself you will find many disgruntled ex studnets as well that say the same thing i do


during my tenure at the school i did not see any high demonstration of skill ffrom the master or any of his advanced students in fact as i noted i defeated many of their black belts and that was at the time i barely knew any thing at all


plus like the united studios of self defense they are not reckonized by the shaolin temple
in fact i recall seeing a blog about man who put his son i usosd program and he contacted the shoilin temle and the abbot never even heard of them before and was thinking of taking legal action

the same rings true for shaoiln do in fact i think they and united studios are both the same scam

Not all of your points are bad but, as is often the case, they lose validity because they are surrounded by statements that are simply factually incorrect. SD and USSD are not related at all. As for the temple, if you read this entire thread and others, they'll recognize anyone who pays them. Both SD and USSD have placards at the Shaolin Temple. I don't say that as evidence of their validity because, as I already said, it appears that schools can purchase these placards. I use it more as an example of how you should verify facts before using them to support your opinions. If your facts are wrong, how can anybody lend any weight to your opinion.

As for my SD kwoon, they don't give belts away but, at the same time, I wish that testing was done to a slightly higher standard. I will say that there are no sick, lame, lazy fat butts at our school because we train hard. I can't say that about many other martial arts schools out there today.

[Baqualin]

LISTEN TO ME AND LISTEN WELL PEOPLE

when i wa sfifteen i joined that crappy shaoLIN do school in colrado run BY david and sharon soard the place IS A TOTAL SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was excited cuz i always wanted to learn sholin but the the whole thing is a scam
i kicked the crap outta there blackbelts in the first months and i barely had any training prior to that


the stuff dosnt even look like kung fu it looks liKE some horribly lame karate style its ineffective and they practically hand away belts

DO NOT JOIN THIS ORGANIZATION THEY ARE FRAUDS AND ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITHTHE SHAOIN TEMPLE IN ANY WAY


DEFINITE MC DOJO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Colorado school is CSC not SD and is not affiliated in anyway with us....nor is USSD...so complain about them all you want (most of what you say is true).....leave us alone until you know what your talking about....Most SD schools are very sincere about the art and their training and are located in the east not west.

[Baqualin]

Your experience with sd is unfortunately becoming the norm. People have become so obsessed with learning the next new form that they don't take the time to master what they have. And yes they do give the belts away. I've seen people promoted who had no idea what they're doing. Then they get to teach! The way the art is taught now has reduced a once capable art to nothing.
I can only speak for material before 2000, but your right, the material doesn't look like shaolin temple Kung fu of today. And that's a good thing. There are people out there that teach the art correctly but most are not affiliated with the sda or the csc schools for obvious reasons. Master hiang seems to have stayed on the right course. And has remained true to his art.

Depends on the school.
In regards to your last 2 sentences....when is the last time you observed one of his classes?

[goju]

um well david soards the highest ranking master under sin kwang the so i think his school should be the best dont you

as i noted the style dosnt even look like kung fu it looks well made up and some of their forms arent evenknown my any other shoilin brach ie they are made up

and yes it is shaoiln do shaoilin do is on the bleedin patch
as well as the endorsement from grand master sin kwang the

and yes ive seen many fat an out of shape black belts at the school min fact master soard and his higher ups would often forget the forms as they were teaching us lol

[sean_stonehart]

Goju... where'd you learn to attempt to speak English?

BTW I don't care if English isn't your native language... you're on a board hosted by & the majority of the members are English speakers. Many as English as a 2nd language & you really can't tell.

Work on it son...

[Baqualin]

um well david soards the highest ranking master under sin kwang the so i think his school should be the best dont you

as i noted the style dosnt even look like kung fu it looks well made up and some of their forms arent evenknown my any other shoilin brach ie they are made up

and yes it is shaoiln do shaoilin do is on the bleedin patch
as well as the endorsement from grand master sin kwang the

and yes ive seen many fat an out of shape black belts at the school min fact master soard and his higher ups would often forget the forms as they were teaching us lol

He is not the highest ranking master...never has been / never will be and you are a TROLL:eek:
BQ

[goju]

like hell he isnt him and shaorn are the highest ranking masters under sin kwang the and based on theri skill thats not saying much lol
they are 8th degree elder masters lol sin has even been hosted at theri kwoon
and hes not nevery impressive either


and as i noted you can google sholin do and read about people saying its a scam you think you get that from qualitys places like buck sam kongs place or wing lams
ha dont make me laugh!


they were gis have belts do one and two step sparring lol and their forms dont even resemble kung fu in the least lol yeah but their authentic

and yes they are shaolin do you bufoons

[Baqualin]

Goju... where'd you learn to attempt to speak English?

BTW I don't care if English isn't your native language... you're on a board hosted by & the majority of the members are English speakers. Many as English as a 2nd language & you really can't tell.

Work on it son...

Did you also notice that at 15 he was whipping Black Belts with no experience:rolleyes:.....no matter the school or style I have a problem swallowing that.....TROLL
Best!!
BQ

[Baqualin]

like hell he isnt him and shaorn are the highest ranking masters under sin kwang the and based on theri skill thats not saying much lol
they are 8th degree elder masters lol sin has even been hosted at theri kwoon
and hes not nevery impressive either


and as i noted you can google sholin do and read about people saying its a scam you think you get that from qualitys places like buck sam kongs place or wing lams
ha dont make me laugh!


they were gis have belts do one and two step sparring lol and their forms dont even resemble kung fu in the least lol yeah but their authentic

and yes they are shaolin do you bufoons

OK dude...have it your way...your right...I bow down to your knowledge...thanks for the education regarding our system...I'm going out tonight and find a new school...do you have any recommendations?
BQ

[goju]

where did say i was beating blacj belts from other schools lol dont tryt o put words in my mouth i said i waseasily defeating the black belts that do shaolin do and i barely had any experience at all in martilal arts upon joining


hey if i understand that some people here have put so much time and effort in to a system thats a scam but hey your gonna have to accept it at one point in time

its honestly hard to see how any body can look at that and not see its a joke lol i figured that out in a month gawd and some of you have proably been doing shaolin do for years now lol

i not trolling merely stating the facts and warning any body who is interested in doing shaolin do not to waste their money

go learn interpretive dance youll be ebale to defnd yourself better

[Baqualin]

where did say i was beating blacj belts from other schools lol dont tryt o put words in my mouth i said i waseasily defeating the black belts that do shaolin do and i barely had any experience at all in martilal arts upon joining


hey if i understand that some people here have put so much time and effort in to a system thats a scam but hey your gonna have to accept it at one point in time

its honestly hard to see how any body can look at that and not see its a joke lol i figured that out in a month gawd and some of you have proably been doing shaolin do for years now lol

i not trolling merely stating the facts and warning any body who is interested in doing shaolin do not to waste their money

go learn interpretive dance youll be ebale to defnd yourself better

One of your post on another thread TROLL

actually the gym let me spar with one of there amateur fighters early on and i beat him and thats based off what i allready knew going in there

i was at t's ko gym in colorado but the twits didnt do **** for me
they said oh youll be ready in year to fight right so i trained and kept asking them okay am i ready for different training you know to step it up
and they said yeah yeah sure but then they wouldnt do a **** thing for me and i got annoyed and left
all i really need them for was contacts to promoters basically and that why i wanna do it by myself
i have a great wrestling coach at hand
and im gonna soon start traiing at a judo school that produced olmpic athletes

im a litle behind on my grappling but my stand up is superb has been for years

basically dont wanna join a gym because i dont like the idea of being somebodys boy ya know and the quality of gym arent that great here and many are too far away im not saying i wanna fight tmorrow but im definetly ready with in this year
to start.


Your no troll are you:)
BQ

[goju]

how does that discredit anything concerning shaolin do
yes i am pursuing a career in mma

shrugs

so?

[Baqualin]

how does that discredit anything concerning shaolin do
yes i am pursuing a career in mma

shrugs

so?

It seems you discredit everything but yourself......you are now on ignore TROLL....good luck and have a nice life:D

[goju]

why dont you answer the question how does me doing mma have anythingt do with this topic lol
see for your self people

google shaolin do fraud
and see what all comes up

for example
by omar

shaolindo is a scam in the largest order the best thing that can be siad about them are some of their affiliate schools are run by real nice people and thats as far as generic karate goes
has absolutely nothing to do with shaolin

[goju]

ah look more qoutes from folks

the site seemed a bit confused with japanese and cantones characters all the way through it id be wary of th ebelt system



ok this is weird min the lineage there are no japaense guys but they have kata and ippon kuite which is JAPANESE for point sparring


lo oh yeah and i forgot to add how they claim theri technique is too deadly to use in competion lmao!!

[Lamassu]

ah look more qoutes from folks

the site seemed a bit confused with japanese and cantones characters all the way through it id be wary of th ebelt system



ok this is weird min the lineage there are no japaense guys but they have kata and ippon kuite which is JAPANESE for point sparring


lo oh yeah and i forgot to add how they claim theri technique is too deadly to use in competion lmao!!

Talk about too little too late! Did you notice the several thousand posts on this thread stating the same things you've been ranting about? There's even another thread called "Then how do you explain the Japanese influence in Shaolin Do" Nothing you've posted is revelatory or profound; it's the same old crap we've been reading for years now. I don't know what it is you're looking for here, either a pat on the back or a cookie, but you don't honestly think your posts will dissuade anybody do you? Everybody on this forum has already made up their minds regarding SD for good or bad, and all you're accomplishing here is either ruffling some feathers or preaching to the choir. Either way your rants are nothing more than mere exercises in futility. Oh wait, you want an mma career right? Nevermind.

[goju]

oh wow if some random clown on a internet forum says no one will be dissuaded then it must be true lol after all your your your
who are you again?

please dont be so dillusional to think no one will. obviously as i stated the people who have been doing this for years are so brainwashed its a little too late but these posts are for the people who can be saved
after all i know what im speaking about being that ive trained there
have you?
and again my mma career has what to do with shaolin do lol

dont tell me you are all a bunch of mma haters here lol

[Lokhopkuen]

it seems you discredit everything but yourself......you are now on ignore troll....good luck and have a nice life:d

rotflmao!!!!:d

[David Jamieson]

oh wow if some random clown on a internet forum says no one will be dissuaded then it must be true lol after all your your your
who are you again?

please dont be so dillusional to think no one will. obviously as i stated the people who have been doing this for years are so brainwashed its a little too late but these posts are for the people who can be saved
after all i know what im speaking about being that ive trained there
have you?
and again my mma career has what to do with shaolin do lol

dont tell me you are all a bunch of mma haters here lol

you have an mma career?
cool.

many of us are into mixed martial arts actually.

[goju]

thank god im actuallu a traditonal sylist if youll check my profile and my name obviously any body would know that

i just mentioned im gonna start doin mma on this forums mma thread and a few fools started in about that
how my mma career has anything to do with shaolin do is beyond me lol

i think m not the only one here who just had there first beer

[shen ku]

where you been man? don't have a belt handy do you?? or maybe something to eat?......

[goju]

thank you lol

[sean_stonehart]

where you been man? don't have a belt handy do you?? or maybe something to eat?......

Nah but if you'll hang on I'll get a jar of peanut butter for you!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Old Noob]

oh wow if some random clown on a internet forum says no one will be dissuaded then it must be true lol after all your your your
who are you again?

please dont be so dillusional to think no one will. obviously as i stated the people who have been doing this for years are so brainwashed its a little too late but these posts are for the people who can be saved
after all i know what im speaking about being that ive trained there
have you?
and again my mma career has what to do with shaolin do lol

dont tell me you are all a bunch of mma haters here lol

BQ quoted you not to criticize the fact that you are in to MMA, but rather to refute your contention that you did not claim to be able to beat trained fighters from other gyms. I'll break it down into summaries that you can understand.

BQ: All this from someone who claims that he beats up black belts.

You: I didn't say I beat up black belts, just SD black belts.

BQ (quoting you): "I beat up black belts."

Get it. Your grasp of facts is tenuous. You can't even remember your own statements. You're entitled to your opinion, my friend, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

BTW, Bill Leonard is Sin The's most senior student. In addtion to the Soards, there are at least four other 8th degrees. These are the facts.

VR
ON

[Baqualin]

BQ quoted you not to criticize the fact that you are in to MMA, but rather to refute your contention that you did not claim to be able to beat trained fighters from other gyms. I'll break it down into summaries that you can understand.

BQ: All this from someone who claims that he beats up black belts.

You: I didn't say I beat up black belts, just SD black belts.

BQ (quoting you): "I beat up black belts."

Get it. Your grasp of facts is tenuous. You can't even remember your own statements. You're entitled to your opinion, my friend, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

BTW, Bill Leonard is Sin The's most senior student. In addtion to the Soards, there are at least four other 8th degrees and the Soards are no where near their level (Fixed that for you). These are the facts.

VR
ON

Very true my friend:) I love MMA....we have some in our system and they do quite well mind you. Gojo Juice needs to go to NY and attend Ross's school if he wants to learn MMA....he will give him an attitude adjustment first, then make a fighter out of him.
Best,
BQ

[goju]

noo i dint say that you mongoloid i said while i was attending the shaolin center i frequently defeated their black belts in sparring and i was a begginer with little knowleged of martial arts upon joining

no where did i say i could beat up black belts from any style you buffoon
stop trying to twist my words

[goju]

qoute from me
i kicked the crap outta their black belts in the first months and i barely had any training prior to that

NO WHERE
did i say i beat up black belts
i do not appreciate you trying to make up qotes from me and posting them on here trying to discredit my views on shaolin do
all that acomplishes is making you look like a liar my freind
andy boy can go back through the two or three pages ive been on here and see that i never said that

they wear karate unifroms the call their forms kata
they uses phrases such as iponn kumite
the have japanese names all over their website
they have numerous blog about them from ex students attesting to the poor quality of instruction

and they are frequently sited as being scam artists as i noted you think you find this from respectable schools like buck sam kongs kwoon or wing lams lol


the oly people who are piping up against the posters on here who are claiming shaolin do is a scam are the students of that very school who have been wasting years and money training in a art that was made up

[kwaichang]

WEll first off you need to look at the uniforms of Shui Jao they are Karate like with a belt also the word Ippon Kumite does not mean point sparring it means one step sparring the traditional way Okinawa Te and Kara Te were practiced also who cares what it is called and in what language, nothing is pure nowadays any way. I have trained in other styles and seen nothing in SD that would discredit the art maybe some of the teachers but not the Art it self, it is what it is. Also did those people you "beat" actually poop on themselves if not then you lied in that respect as well. Try not to be too literal and stop judgeing by one experience KC

[goju]

again these are not just based on my experiences but how many people that have trained there

and what kind of back wards logic is that oh the teachers may have sucked but that dont mean the art does lol yeah that makes sense
the soards are iether the highest or one of the highest ranking members under sin but they teach horribly a reflection on sin and the art as a whole is it not!

no you dont use karate terminology and call it kung fu!

and i was not the only one who easily defeated the black belts there i saw numerous time blackbelts a csc not be able to win sparring matches with begginers

[kwaichang]

You know Liberacci was a great piano player but a poor teacher and I know many poor fighters who are great trainers with your logic if you can beat someone they have nothing to teach you, that is a skewed logic. Muhammad Ali has parkinsons symptoms and was probably one of the greatest fighters of our times but he isnt now does that mean you cant learn or get better from his teaching.? There is a saying there arent bad students only bad teachers I think that the truth be known there are lazy and not lazy students your skill or their skill depends upon that what you saw was lazy students and teachers perform. KC

[goju]

no that fact that the saords run a schoo tha t hands at belts by the arse load a teach something that was pulled out of theri nether regions(guess which hole)
reflects on sin kwang the and the whole school
why would sin kwan the if he reallly is the grandmaster of shaolin ecrtify such lousy students to teach his style


hmm lets see because hes lousy himself lol and if the gransmasters not up to stuff it discredits the whole style he teaches

and yet again you are twisting my words just i never said that if you defeat anybody in asparring match in makes their teaching usless however there is no excuse for aguy who just started martial arts to be throwing students around who have been there for years
and what the ping pong didly sqaut does feckin muhamd ali or liberaci have to do with this topic lol

STAY ON THE BLEEDIN DISCUSSION TOPIC PEOPLE!

[kwaichang]

I will type slower so you will understand. GMT is 64 years old therefore his flexibility may be less than when he was 20 but that does not take away from his skill. Knowledge is not based upon skill it is just that, knowledge. I have seen GoJU Karate and it is taken from other styles so is it impure ?? Are all the teachers GREAT? TO BASE YOUR OPINION ON ONE SCHOOL OR SERIES OF SCHOOLS AS IN THIS CASE IS A GRAVE ERROR You should take the time to observe other schools say in Kentucky better yet go and spar some of them there maybe one of the ones rolling a 90# steel bar up and down their shins Dip KC

[shen ku]

oh yeah,, a jar of peanut butter thats what i need,,,,, how you been,

[sean_stonehart]

oh yeah,, a jar of peanut butter thats what i need,,,,, how you been,

I'll throw in some beef jerkey for flavor!! :D:D

I'm doing ok... kinda like the rest of everybody else I imagine & trying to survive. How's things with you?

[Old Noob]

noo [sic] i [sic] dint [sic] say that you mongoloid [sic] i [sic] said while i [sic] was attending the shaolin center i [sic] frequently defeated their black belts in sparring and i [sic] was a begginer with little knowleged [sic] of martial arts upon joining

no where [sic] did i [sic] say i [sic] could beat up black belts from any style you buffoon
stop trying to twist my words

Name calling is about as persuasive as the rest of your arguments. However, since you asked for specificity in my analysis, I'll give it to you despite your unwillingness or inability to be reasonable and specific in your own comments.

To be sure, you did not say that you routinely beat up black belts from other schools. I was, admittedly, paraphrasing in order to make it simpler for you to understand. You did, however, say that you beat SD black belts. Also, as was already mentioned above, you commented in another thread, "actually the gym let me spar with one of there [sic] amateur fighters early on and i [sic] beat him and thats [sic] based off what i [sic] allready [sic] knew going in there." That, sir, is a direct quote from you.

Now, while the quote doesn't label the gym's man a black belt, it is implicit that he was chosen to represent that gym. You claim to have handled him easily and then proceeded to bad mouth that gym as well. These remarks, coupled with your other postings, tells readers a number of things about you. They are:

1. You have a hyperinflated sense of yourself;
2. You have absolutely no respect for anyone; and
3. You are a reactionary, unreasonable, factually ignorant troll.

There are more but those are just a few. As BQ pointed out, those on this forum who are either pro or con on the issue have already made their points, most more articulately and more politely than you. Until you've read this entire thread and are familiar with the discussion, there isn't much you can contribute to it. I seriously doubt that you'd be able to contribute even if you had read it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Best,
ON

[Lamassu]

oh wow if some random clown on a internet forum says no one will be dissuaded then it must be true lol after all your your your
who are you again?

This is fun, haven't been in a flame war in months, thanks goju! :D


please dont be so dillusional to think no one will. obviously as i stated the people who have been doing this for years are so brainwashed its a little too late but these posts are for the people who can be saved
after all i know what im speaking about being that ive trained there
have you?
and again my mma career has what to do with shaolin do lol

dont tell me you are all a bunch of mma haters here lol

No man! There's no hope, NO HOPE!! :eek: The sky will collapse and pigs will fly and worse, much much worse! Nobody will heed your dire warning about the eeeeeeeeevvvilllll Soards! I like you goju, you make me laugh, kinda like a clown, very amusing; very funny.

BTW, for the record I have studied SD down in Texas for about 5 years, before I moved up to Chicago. It was alright, I don't drink all the kool aid that's out there concerning SD and it's tumoltuous history, but then again every martial art school's history is suspect of embellishment. Oh well, your posts are nothing new, and this is all an exercise in p!ssing and moaning.

[goju]

yes exactly and too many people are drinking the kool aid with this school lol
and noob no you were paraphrasing anything you intentionally try to distort my words to discredit me either you are not very bright or you assume im not to not remember what i posted lol

and again please stay on topic what does go ju ryu have to do with this lol yes its a mixed style so is everything else
nut however goju is mixed with authentic styles not seemingly abunch of nonsense thats made up lol

and sins flexibilty is of no matter thought i dont remeber how flexible the man was i have witnessed eldery monks from the temple preform the contortion routine that is taught when they are young
so if they can do that even at their age there is no excuse to dismiss his flexiblty loss and besides i have no idea what his flexibilty has to do with anything lol

[goju]

oh and concerning the mma lol yes i said i sparred with one of the amatuer fighters there they have at the gym i used to attend and i won so what
will some one explaint o me what this has to do shaolin do lol

as i noted in my thread i dint beat fedor but ive proven that im at a level where i can compete amatuer. if i would have said brock lesnar came in and i suplexed him through the cage floor that would be another matter lol

and no he is not a black belt and wether or not me winnig the sparring match reflects badly on the gym or not is of little matter to me at all never thought of it and i really dont care. and i said the gym wasnt satisfactory to my needs so i left

either you are having a hard time trying to debate in a an intelligent manner or you have the attention span of a goldfish. however eithe rway your failing at this discussion

you can call it paraphrasing or what ever you wish but anyone can clearly see your saying im posting things that i not and trying to twist every word i say.

and why would i read through hundreds of pages of this bull plop lol what kind of a fool would waste his time doing that. whats the point ive actually trained there i have a fist hand experience with that school and thus can speak openly of what isaw there and not have it be some second hand word of mouth thing about that school like some have

unless youve trained there i think it would be wise if you remained silent on the subject

[goju]

we need a good flame war here dont we lol
god i just thought id post about my experience with the school now i feel like im running for office and my rivals are trying to dig up as much dirt on me as possible and start mud slinging lol

[Baqualin]

1)First for the 10,000 time GM Sin is the Grandmaster of Shaolin Do, not Shaolin...this is his claim straight from the horses mouth....I know there has been a lot of marketing BS out there claiming otherwise, but the facts are as I stated.

2)There are schools out there that have become very bad representations of our true system.....this happens in all schools (any organization) when they become to big and spread out across the country....it's hard to control and people become money and glory hungry as well as political. There are students and teachers in these schools that do not deserve the rank that has been given to them.....who's responsible for this......a lot of people, but the ball always stops at the top....once things get out of hand it's always harder to reverse....everybody wants to go out and do it their way....thats life......really what are you going to do...spend the rest of your life fighting a losing battle...sometimes you just say Fuk it. It's always easy to sit at a key board and tell everyone what they should do (some people make a life of it)

3)If you don't find what your looking for at a kwoon.....find one that you do....don't p!ss on a system because of one or even a few schools......all styles have poor representation.....find what fits YOU.

4)Most people who get on here ranting & raving have major issues over and above martial arts.....I teach it and see it everyday.....new idiots come in all the time.

5)Cujo getting on here feeling he can save the world from CSC is fooling his self......99% of all students of all systems have know idea that this forum exist or they have better things to do with there time (or could care less).....so he's talking to nobody here.

6)If Cujo has a bone to pick with the Soards then he needs to go to them and pick it and leave the people who are true SDers to themselves...they can't help him....they don't like them either (even though they have kept the traditional uniform:D).

7)GM Sin knows who his best and most loyal students are and they benefit accordingly.

8) Once people get to know the true SDers they realize were good people and open minded martial artist willing to learn and improve.

9) Cujo...have a coke and a smile and STFU:)
BQ

PS.
Kwaichang....you know GM Sin at 64 is still in better shape than anybody in the system.....not a wushu preformer.....but awesome at ripping your throat out.;)

[Baqualin]

I almost forgot.
10) When people come on here acting like their a bad a$$ no one is going to give them much respect.

[Old Noob]

either you are having a hard time trying to debate in a an intelligent manner or you have the attention span of a goldfish. however eithe rway your failing at this discussion

you can call it paraphrasing or what ever you wish but anyone can clearly see your saying im posting things that i not and trying to twist every word i say.

and why would i read through hundreds of pages of this bull plop lol what kind of a fool would waste his time doing that. whats the point ive actually trained there i have a fist hand experience with that school and thus can speak openly of what isaw there and not have it be some second hand word of mouth thing about that school like some have

unless youve trained there i think it would be wise if you remained silent on the subject

I'm failing? And you, the man who can't capitalize, punctuate, or spell correctly, much less reason logically, are having the better of it?

You criticized the Soards. You'll notice that, in the posts that followed, none here took issue with your criticism or the Soards. What folks took issue with was your overgeneralization that since the Soards and the CSC folks were not very good, SD was not good. Your assertion is not logical. In this regard, you'd do well to follow your own advice. Again I'm paraphrasing because I don't want to engage in all the poor grammar necessary to quote you, but your advice was that, if we had not trained at a certain location, we should refrain from comment about that location. Fair enough if we, having not trained with the Soards, were defending them. We weren't. We were essentially making your point: You have not trained in SD other than with the Soards and, therefore, had no appropriate basis to opine about the efficacy of the art in general, especially given that the Soards run their schools under the CSC brand. Why do you think that is by the way? I really hope you're following because I'm trying to make this as simple as I can.

As for why you'd "waste" your time reading the whole thread. The thread is a very long conversation to which you've decided to add your two cents. For your two cents to be even that valuable, you would want to have some clue about the conversation in the first place. But yeah, why "waste" your time on stuff like learning to spell, reading comprehension, researching the facts upon which you base your opinion, and knowing what was said in a conversation to which you attempt to contribute. Nobody ever got anywhere by doing that. Being an ignorant twit is really much more profitable.

[goju]

oh mercy hang on im talking to my girlfreind ll be back to answer thi

[goju]

you say im just insulting people but you resorting to the lousy spelling attack that every fool uses that cant think of something witty to say lol
not only that but you had to repeat it tice in the same post1 ahahahhahahahahahah god how sad


no the saords reflect on shaolin do as a whole sin kwang the certified them as soem of his highest ranking masters why would he do this lol
if they are frauds then he is a fraud as simple as that
all these pathetic responses to this statement just prove im right theres no way around it
a fraud breeds other frauds

[Tensei85]

and why would i read through hundreds of pages of this bull plop lol what kind of a fool would waste his time doing that.





Wow! It's taken most of my life but I've finally read this entire thread from 1st-672

[Old Noob]

you say im just insulting people but you resorting to the lousy spelling attack that every fool uses that cant think of something witty to say lol
not only that but you had to repeat it tice in the same post1 ahahahhahahahahahah god how sad


no the saords reflect on shaolin do as a whole sin kwang the certified them as soem of his highest ranking masters why would he do this lol
if they are frauds then he is a fraud as simple as that
all these pathetic responses to this statement just prove im right theres no way around it
a fraud breeds other frauds

I think I understand. We need to do as you say and not as you do. You are not required to apply your own logic. I get it now. That's why you're smart when you say that, if the Soards suck, then all SD must suck and we're stupid when we say that our teachers are good, therefore SD must be good. That's why it's okay for you to tell us not to judge when we haven't trained at the one school where you trained but it's not okay for us to tell you not to judge all of SD when you haven't trained in our schools. Thank you so much for shedding some light on this. To think that all this time I've been walking around thinking hypocrisy is a bad thing.

Thanks.

P.S.
It was really lame of me to criticize your inability to read, write, and spell. That really was a pathetic reach on my part. You should feel free to be as unintelligible in your conversations as you wish. Why have any standards whatsoever? Sorry about that.

[tattooedmonk]

What the hell is going on here??? Yikes!!!:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

[Old Noob]

What the hell is going on here??? Yikes!!!:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

Just another revolution of the wheel really. Nothing new.

[Baqualin]

What the hell is going on here??? Yikes!!!:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

Idiot debate:)

[Judge Pen]

Things must be slow because I hadn't seen anyone run that long with a troll since the first post of this thread. Oh and did you read his profile? He states he is a male stripper. I'm convinced of his credibilty.

How's everyone been doing?

[Baqualin]

Things must be slow because I hadn't seen anyone run that long with a troll since the first post of this thread. Oh and did you read his profile? He states he is a male stripper. I'm convinced of his credibilty.

How's everyone been doing?

Hey JP,
How are the kids!!!!

[Baqualin]

Things must be slow because I hadn't seen anyone run that long with a troll since the first post of this thread. Oh and did you read his profile? He states he is a male stripper (short for full of his self). I'm convinced of his credibilty.

How's everyone been doing?

Don't forget that he's a mommy's boy & has hands of death:rolleyes:
BQ

[kwaichang]

Hey JP hi all hey GoJu was your spelling teacher a poor speller ? must have been since you cant spell either. BTW that is sarcasm and about as logical as your argument with the connection of the Swords and their students to GMT.. The rank is based upon a persons personal; improvement not the EGO laden rank such as winning or losing as it is in some MA and MMA. KC

[Judge Pen]

Hey JP,
How are the kids!!!!

Doing pretty good. Thanks for asking.

I wonder if Hands of Death will let us know the venue of his upcoming fight so we can see his wisdom in action.

[sean_stonehart]

I wonder if Hands of Death will let us know the venue of his upcoming fight so we can see his wisdom in action.

Nah... too deadly... he'd have to kill us for seeing it...

[tattooedmonk]

Idiot debate:)So, nothing has changed around here!!!

Anyone read the Immortal Sword article in BB magazine?? Good stuff!!

The only real issue anyone could have with it is that it features an EX-CSC instructor Jason C.

Funny how things work out...........LOL

[tattooedmonk]

Just another revolution of the wheel really. Nothing new. That's funny. I heard they are round now!!:):cool:

[Baqualin]

So, nothing has changed around here!!!

Anyone read the Immortal Sword article in BB magazine?? Good stuff!!

The only real issue anyone could have with it is that it features an EX-CSC instructor Jason C.

Funny how things work out...........LOL

Glad to see your still around!!!!
BQ

[tattooedmonk]

Glad to see your still around!!!!
BQI appreciate that.

Even though I am an EX- CSC student, I am still a practitioner of the art and still refer to GM The`as my martial arts GM and you as my Shaolin Brother.

[Baqualin]

I appreciate that.

Even though I am an EX- CSC student, I am still a practitioner of the art and still refer to GM The`as my martial arts GM and you as my Shaolin Brother.

Ditto!!!;)

[godzillakungfu]

Wow.

Still going strong.


S

The only real issue anyone could have with it is that it features an EX-CSC instructor Jason C.


Good lord another one becomes an EX? Geez. I wonder what new rumors will be started about him.

[tattooedmonk]

Wow.

Still going strong.



Good lord another one becomes an EX? Geez. I wonder what new rumors will be started about him. HUH? What?? About who??

[goju]

lol um a spelling teacher.......? lmao!!!

if i get a fight here ill tell you good publicity for me i think :)

how sad is this incredibly stupid logic notice none of you have managed to explain this tell me

how exactly can sin kwnag the and shaolin do be creible when the soards are frauds

SIN TAUGHT THE SOARDS YOU FOOLS LOL THEY HAVE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE UNDER HIM!!!!!!
WHAT DOES THAT SAY?!
but why am i bothering none of you wil be able to answer this youll just use another liberaci analogy lol

[Facepalm]

Im a first time poster but ive probably read most of this thread.

Ive been a student at the CSC in boulder and denver for a year now.
I havnt exactly discovered this thread recently and I always see criticism of my school in particular.

This is my first foray into martial arts (its been a blast and Ive found that its something im good at and can constantly improve on) and I can say that I share in alot of your guys criticisms about the operation that the soards run. They definitely give belts away to people who dont deserve them. I try to hold myself to a better standard than some of those who I see passing belt tests around me. But that doesnt mean that most students dont take it seriously.

From what ive seen so far there are two types of people who come here. People who just think forms are cool. And people who want to get strong. You can tell the difference when you spar them and also by how the former type have no clue about any of the application from any of the forms.

But... The people interested in getting strong are awesome. They are dedicated and they train hard. Ive had some great times sparring (we spar alot at these schools) with them and have really been impressed. Basically all I want to do is spar people that can beat me and challenge me to learn how to beat them. And I find that here. Also I like forms training because it definitely has made me more agile. I do think that this school is too focused on getting its students to become form learning machines and less time focused on really training each one. But we do get to spar all the time which does give me some time to actually try to use application and figure out what these forms mean.

Personally I think master david and master sharon are pretty awesome people. Dedicated to teaching as much application and knowledge as they can. If theres anything sinister about them I havnt seen it yet. They've definitely produced some good students but they do have black belts who really cant spar very well or dont seem to dedicated. The Soards teach them anyway and let them advance and it kind of sucks. Ive never seen anyone fail a test.

Well, basically ive heard all the evidence from these forums. Right now Im having a blast getting strong. If anyone knows of a good school in boulder where I can get some training more grounded in a single style ( I like CMA lots) please send a reply. Im prolly going to train here a couple more years and then start cross training in BJJ. I figure thatll get me good and well rounded.

But really I dont think the Soards are all that bad. They definitely have a wealth of information about the art and seem to dedicate all their energy to teaching it to us. If your dedicated you can become a good martial artist under their tutelage (I know several). I just dont like the focus on maximum number of forms and the fact that they give away belts.
(Also theres quite alot of chi wizardry going on) _which is fun sometimes_

[goju]

OH MY GAWWWWWWWWWWD OH MY GAWWWWWWWWWWWWD SOMEBODY POSTED a positive OPINION ON SHAOLIN DO IN A INTELLIGENT MANNER

HOLY ****IN CHRIST MY ANUS!!!!!!!!!!




see this i have no problem with he likes it good for him or her :)

[tattooedmonk]

lol um a spelling teacher.......? lmao!!!

if i get a fight here ill tell you good publicity for me i think :)

how sad is this incredibly stupid logic notice none of you have managed to explain this tell me

how exactly can sin kwnag the and shaolin do be creible when the soards are frauds

SIN TAUGHT THE SOARDS YOU FOOLS LOL THEY HAVE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE UNDER HIM!!!!!!
WHAT DOES THAT SAY?!
but why am i bothering none of you wil be able to answer this youll just use another liberaci analogy lolbut is english your first language?? Are you drunk or on drugs??/

[goju]

is this a multiple choice question ca i pick c all of the above

[kwaichang]

Sounds like you just want someone to agree with you and you have nothing positive to say. GMT is not responsible for the progress or lack there of a student he wants us all to do well and improve but all cant. As far a giving belts or sashes away I agree they should be earned not given or bought I have noticed the same as well. But to say GMT isnt any good or proficient because a student does not meet up to your standards is just plain stupid. The differences in us is what makes us strong. KC

[tattooedmonk]

....that if anyone of these knuckleheads met GMT or for some strange reason studied with him they would find out that he is a real martial artist with real skill and is highly intelligent.

[godzillakungfu]

HUH? What?? About who??
You said Jason C. If it is who I think, most times rumors start regardless of how an instructor leaves the art.

[goju]

you guys are really trying to hard you ned to lay off the kool aid immediately lol

ive seen sin he wasnt any better than david soard

and i dotn have high standards compare sin to wing lam buck sam kong tat mau wong
an you can see his skill is sub par

[tattooedmonk]

You said Jason C. If it is who I think, most times rumors start regardless of how an instructor leaves the art.It is. This is true. It's funny how things get turned around, not failing to mention that NO ONE EVER asks the person if these things are true or not.:eek::rolleyes::confused::D:cool:

Did I ever tell you what happened to me ??? LMAO

[tattooedmonk]

you guys are really trying to hard you ned to lay off the kool aid immediately lol

ive seen sin he wasnt any better than david soard

and i dotn have high standards compare sin to wing lam buck sam kong tat mau wong
an you can see his skill is sub par What??

Lay off the crack!!!

Master Wing Lam, Master Buck Sam Kong and Master Tat Mau Wong are all great masters at what they do, their path is different than EMDS and GMSKT.

Performing forms and being able to apply them at the right place and right time is something completely different.

You obviously are only seeing what is on the surface.

So how much time have you spent actually studying under any of these people???

Do you even know ANY of these people???

[goju]

AH LORD THIS KOOL AID IS MOST FOUL!!!!!! LOL

im using those masters as a comparison o skill tosin look at any well known master respected in the kung fu community and compare them to sin you can tell the guy isnt skilled at all lol

if you look at the shaolin do style and sin and think thats a high level of martial arts mastery then i feel sorry for you lol

adn like i suspected no nobody has been able to sucesfully refute my claims this idiotic logic that oh just because the soards arent very good dosnt reflect on sin is proposterous!!!
if the soards ar elousy it isnt because sin couldnt teach them properly its because in dosnt know what hes doing hes cleary either a fraud himself or comletely incompetent


either waythey still are scamming folks by using the shaolin name and that IS WRONG i really dont care if they put a do at the end of shaolin (or a a doh!! better yet!) it stilll misrepresnting the art and the temple

and look at it at its worse its sacreligious! shaolin is so much more than a style its a way of life and a part of a religious tradition. it dispicable to claim something is shaolin when it clearly is not. im hapy that one of the abbots suppose to start sueing and cracking down on all these frauds who are ruining the styles reputation


i will patiently await another liberaci analogy lol

[kwaichang]

Well since you insist,You remind me alot of Liberace, GoJu in the way you deny others credibility because they dont wear your type of sequin. You are a joke you train for what 5 years and then accuse those who have trained since the 70's that they dont know what real MA looks like . You are the real fraud here not SKT or any SD practitioner. At least we are not sitting on our fat lazy haunches and judging with little or no experience.
You remind me alot of a friend of mine from long ago who read everything he could about Wu Shu and therefore knew it all , Give us some credible background of your self and we or I may acknowledge your mastery of spelling and MA and none of this MMA crap either. KC

[Tensei85]

Sorry for disturbing this conversation but it seems as though its not making much headway. So I would like to state though I have no connection to or with Shaolin Do and know little to nothing about the system itself. I would have to say you really can't judge an organization by its members, sometimes an organization stands for views and philosophies that may or may not be reflected in its affiliated members. So if you have an issue with specific member don't you think it may be more constructive to take it up with the member themselves as opposed to the organization as a whole?
There are probably a few bad representatives in every organization or family however you categorize it. Take my viewpoints for as little as there worth but that's my summary.

[kwaichang]

Reminds me of a song "One bad apple dont spoil the whole bunch" KC

[goju]

in the words of james brown you mutha!

so because somebody has been training since the 70s that means hes credible lmao my god i love your logic old boy!!!
well being that i wasnt alive in the seventies its kind of hard to have been training then dont you think (unless i was a reincarnated ex shaolin do student then too )

see kwai you just dont want to admit the fact that youve wasted years of your life in a bs martilial art created my a grandmaster no bodys even heard of. un like many others who quit and trust me the drop our rates high with the csc you continued to drink the koolaid and convinced yourself that you were learning and authentic style. the fact that you cant intelligently make you case just shows my point
there is no possible way that the soards could be lousy and sin kwang the snt simple as that
why would he have promoted them so high in his style if they were to him?
the student is a reflection on the master if the students skill is poor then that says alot about the master as well

and genius the colorado branch isnt the only shaolin do school to coem under a lot of scrutiny in fact they all have

and YET AGAIN the saord sare some of sins highest ranked masters adn YET AGAIN if their technique is lousy imagine what the lower ranked masters running the other shaolin do schools look like lol

and actually it seem you are sitting on your fat lazt arse as i recalled david soard had the habit of babbling on more than training his students and had numerus obese and out of shape high ranking black belts under him

in fact if my memory serves me i remeber quite often he would have his black belts run the class for him and they frequently forgot the lower belt material and had to halt class and run to one of the soards to ask them how to do the white belt level material lol

but yes im the one sitting on my lazy arse while you guys train so hard!

as far as my back round goes i had begun taekwondo about a month earlier with my uncle before joing the shaolin center

when i quit my uncle showed me goju ryu i like it more tha taekwondo so i kept with it to this day
hes a 3rd degree black belt in taekwondo and a 2nd in goju ryu under some korean master named sung cho as far as where sung choi learned it from beats me never asked
and my mma crap as you put it plays into the picture as well i wasnt happy with the gym but at least brazillian jujitsu is an authentic art and a proven style un like what some schools are teaching and i am close to getting my blue belt under that as well

[goju]

remember ashida kim lol well hes been doing his stuff for decades so he must be legit
oh your logic and argument is entertaining my freind!

how many years have you been wasting i mean practicing shaolin doh!

[kwaichang]

So your uncle is some one and you arent The ashida Kim statement speaks volumes, I will wast no more time with you, you are to be discarded like a pair of old socks. What a joke; BTW you should quit the roids you are so filled with roid rage you cant even type. To the ashida kum, tae kwon do, Go Ju Dojo, MMA wannabe dungeon with you. Ha I laugh in your general direction. KC BTW your uncle should have showed you Kung Pao Chicken it would probably be more appropriate.

[goju]

so my english skills are bad but you just posted a jumbled up mess of a paragraph lol good job

either your a moron or ive gotten you so flustered with my last post you cant even try to defend your pathetic shaolin do

lol roid rage i fell off my chair with this post with the wy your acting i think you got into a batch!

[goju]

Bawhahahahhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahhh o ,y god i just keep reading that and laughing ahaahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

[kwaichang]

You should reread my last post , nothing wrong there that I can see. I was like you when I was young and dumb too , except I could fight. Not just skip from style to style BTW when did a Brazilian guy win last at the MMA fights ?? KC

[goju]

um unfortunately when your young in dumb you usually end up old and dumb lol age and wisdom do not go hand in hand in fact most idiots think they are smart simply due to the fact theya re old lol
being that youve been doing martial arts for decades now and still dont know what your talking about just proves my point!
who said im skipping from style to style outside of sd i still practice all ive trained in

if anything by your profile you sound more like somebody who jumps around
a bunch of styles but now shaolin do lol so a little bit of this and a little bit of that for decades huh?
yeah you finally made up your mind on what your doing after years and years and youve gained all this wisdom so you join shaolin do


AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAH

[goju]

um pretty much everybody that does mma knows bjj whens the last time a shaolin do fighter won an mma fight


oooh got ya!

[goju]

mk,
your date argument (1964) pretty much makes sd look completely bogus. However, you need to consider the syncretic nature of indonesia. The indonesians as a culture are highly adaptive, and sometimes a superficial change is adequate to satisfy most as a change. The laws against cma and chinese language also require indonesian citizens of chinese decent to have indonesian names. The adoption of bahasa indonesia required the generic chinese term in indonesia (kun tao) be replaced with a bahasa word (silat). Which is why you see cma called 'silat' even though it isn't 'silat' in the specific sense.

It was also common to see blending of cma, jma, and ima in certain circles, because there were strong traditions of holding back (see draegers "weapons and fighting arts of the indonesian archipelago") - it is possible that this is the root of sd. But i doubt it based upon the technical skills i've seen from sd people.

All this aside, i'm convinced that sd is a fraud perpetrated by sin the'. He is either a jovial con man whose great conditioning and decent karate skills allowed him to con unknowing americans, or he's the biggest freaking idiot in the world and actually beleives his own stories. In either case, why would you want to follow him?

The footage of him moving was the clincher. While i have seen kun tao players do, say a mantis set that was obviously made up based on something else, it still had the content of that something else. Sd just looks bad to me.


ahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaahhahahahaahahahhahahaha

[goju]

master killer just may be riht but if he isn't...how exactly am i supposed to test tis "theory"? A death match? You do realize that what's beein disputed it the whole su kon jin story and their alleed link to shaolin. They could be really good figters and really cool to watch but they still would not be real shaolin.

But rest assured..if they come to xi'an i will see them in person and i will even try to bring my shifu along.

Their story has more holes than a screen door. The monkey man is wearing a western suit in a pre-industrial china for gods sake. He trained at a temple that hadn't had monks in it for 200 years. They think all the internal arts of northern china are part of shaolin. Nothing about their story makes sense. "shaolin" as a home of chinese gong fu had been dead since the late qing dynasty and all the monks there now are those that were either hired or invited back.

If you enjoy the training...fine.

You will proably even learn some really nice kenpo karate to defend yourself with. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know what else to say on it.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhah ahahaha

[tattooedmonk]

AH LORD THIS KOOL AID IS MOST FOUL!!!!!! LOL

im using those masters as a comparison o skill tosin look at any well known master respected in the kung fu community and compare them to sin you can tell the guy isnt skilled at all lol

if you look at the shaolin do style and sin and think thats a high level of martial arts mastery then i feel sorry for you lol

adn like i suspected no nobody has been able to sucesfully refute my claims this idiotic logic that oh just because the soards arent very good dosnt reflect on sin is proposterous!!!
if the soards ar elousy it isnt because sin couldnt teach them properly its because in dosnt know what hes doing hes cleary either a fraud himself or comletely incompetent


either waythey still are scamming folks by using the shaolin name and that IS WRONG i really dont care if they put a do at the end of shaolin (or a a doh!! better yet!) it stilll misrepresnting the art and the temple

and look at it at its worse its sacreligious! shaolin is so much more than a style its a way of life and a part of a religious tradition. it dispicable to claim something is shaolin when it clearly is not. im hapy that one of the abbots suppose to start sueing and cracking down on all these frauds who are ruining the styles reputation


i will patiently await another liberaci analogy lolAnswer the questions to post 10099. If you do you will gain some credibility.

[tattooedmonk]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhah ahahaha

But I don't sit around all day laughing like an idiot!!!!

[goju]

im not goig to go lok back on post 10009676859494 whatever unless its brought up hre for me to see

and why not you should try it some time
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
EVIL KUNG FU MASTER LAUGH

[tattooedmonk]

What??

Lay off the crack!!!

Master Wing Lam, Master Buck Sam Kong and Master Tat Mau Wong are all great masters at what they do, their path is different than EMDS and GMSKT.

Performing forms and being able to apply them at the right place and right time is something completely different.

You obviously are only seeing what is on the surface.

So how much time have you spent actually studying under any of these people???

Do you even know ANY of these people???here ya go!! the questions are at the end of the post, you see right before the question marks??

[Old Noob]

i wasnt alive in the seventies

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[Old Noob]

Sorry for disturbing this conversation but it seems as though its not making much headway. So I would like to state though I have no connection to or with Shaolin Do and know little to nothing about the system itself. I would have to say you really can't judge an organization by its members, sometimes an organization stands for views and philosophies that may or may not be reflected in its affiliated members. So if you have an issue with specific member don't you think it may be more constructive to take it up with the member themselves as opposed to the organization as a whole?
There are probably a few bad representatives in every organization or family however you categorize it. Take my viewpoints for as little as there worth but that's my summary.

Agreed. A well-reasoned approach.

[Judge Pen]

how exactly can sin kwnag the and shaolin do be creible when the soards are frauds

SIN TAUGHT THE SOARDS YOU FOOLS LOL THEY HAVE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE UNDER HIM!!!!!!
WHAT DOES THAT SAY?!
but why am i bothering none of you wil be able to answer this youll just use another liberaci analogy lol

Ok, I'll bite. LOTS of people in SD criticize the Soards and the way their school is run. Most don't talk about it on public internet forums with 14 year old fools because its internal politics and not respectful to debate in public. But GM The gives each of his senior students wide latitude in how they teach the art. He does not seem to have a problem in the differences that exist between the Soards, the Mullins family, Master Grooms, Lexington and Texas, etc. He lets them be.... We can debate whether this is right or wrong until the cows come home, but its his art, he can do what he wants. If it doesn't bother him (and from someone who has met the man several times, but isn't necessarily a confidant) it does not seem to bother him. I suspect his attitude is that he passed on his knowledge to his students and it’s up to them to decide what the best way to further the art is. As such, there are vast difference between the schools operated by the various masters, but they are all part of the family of shaolin-do.

Master Sin is a very "live and let live" person. It's not a bad lesson.

[Old Noob]

Ok, I'll bite. LOTS of people in SD criticize the Soards and the way their school is run. Most don't talk about it on public internet forums with 14 year old fools because its internal politics and not respectful to debate in public. But GM The gives each of his senior students wide latitude in how they teach the art. He does not seem to have a problem in the differences that exist between the Soards, the Mullins family, Master Grooms, Lexington and Texas, etc. He lets them be.... We can debate whether this is right or wrong until the cows come home, but its his art, he can do what he wants. If it doesn't bother him (and from someone who has met the man several times, but isn't necessarily a confidant) it does not seem to bother him. I suspect his attitude is that he passed on his knowledge to his students and it’s up to them to decide what the best way to further the art is. As such, there are vast difference between the schools operated by the various masters, but they are all part of the family of shaolin-do.

Master Sin is a very "live and let live" person. It's not a bad lesson.

Well said, as always. How do you do it?

[sean_stonehart]

Well said, as always. How do you do it?

His logic fu & expressive quan is mighty

[MasterKiller]

Master Sin is a very "live and let live" person. It's not a bad lesson. He did go to all the trouble to sue someone for teaching his system, though. So, he does seem to have some interest in who passes on his material and how it's presented.

But really, with the size of the organization now, I doubt he can do much to reign in the fruitcakes. Even if only 10% of the schools were run by nuts, that's a lot of nuts running around.

[Judge Pen]

He did go to all the trouble to sue someone for teaching his system, though. So, he does seem to have some interest in who passes on his material and how it's presented.

But really, with the size of the organization now, I doubt he can do much to reign in the fruitcakes. Even if only 10% of the schools were run by nuts, that's a lot of nuts running around.

True. That was a while ago.... maybe things have changed. At the time of that lawsuit, things were not as diverse and people seemed to get along better now.

[goju]

i didnt know bruce lee either but hi s kill level was obviously on par with the greats as wel and obviouslt sin and his students arent anywhere close
again your logic pople!!!!!!!

actuall many of the other shaolin do schools come under the same scrutiny that the soards do so again

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[Judge Pen]

But you are relying upon anonymous internet posts. (in fact you are anonymous yourself) That's reliable. With an organization as big as SD, you are going to have disgruntled people from time to time. The advent of the internet over the past several years makes it easy for yahoos with little to no credibility to spout off things with absolutely no real way to verify their experiences. So I'm left with my own experiences which I count higher than yours.

Let me put it this way: I've met and/or personally corresponded with several members here about these issues. I've crossed hands with many of them (or their students). I've put my own material on the internet for comment. It proves nothing, but it does give the other posters here a frame of reference when it comes to my word. At least they know they can trust what I'm saying is coming from real experience even when they disagree with the conclusions I reach.

You can shout to the high heavens and all you do is hurt our ears.

[kwaichang]

Go Ju as the word implies hard/soft in your case soft in the head. Go to MMA and get your head bashed in you will pay for it some where down the road. As far as skipping around I trained for 10 years with my first CMA teacher and then the next 13 or so in Japanese MA and again in SD for the last 15 barring a back injury so listen to one who has seen and knows you are but a youth trying to win an internet battle that cant be won. So please go somewhere else, to, as they say shout to the heavens. KC:eek::cool:

[goju]

win what battle your the biatch who said you werent goin to post here any more

and again witht you old eldery sage advice lol obviously if you learned anything in your studies you would have been able to spot shaolin do as a scam as so many others have the fact that youve been doing martial arts for so long and joined with them shows the fact that wisdom does not indeed come with age lol


oh yeah so theres just people running around on the internet naking up stories about saolin doh ahahahhahaahhahahahahahahahahhah oh my god this keeps getting more hilarious as time goes on

in fact i am a troll to i just made up my stay at shao lin do some how i just happend to know everything about the school but yet in still lying lol

liek i sadi you shaolin do fools just dont want to admit youve been wasting your life studying this crack pot art theres too types of eople who do shaolin doh during my stay there the drop out rate was enourmous due to people seeing it was a scamola and then theres the every one out of ten peopel there who honestly buys into it and thinks they are actually learning shaolin

i bet kwai is one the students who shaved his head bald when he joined lol

bottom line is they are scam artists who sre a discrace to the shaolin name IT IS SACRELIGIOUS what they are doing and allthough i beleive too each his own if you cant see hsolin do is a scam well im sorry your a moron

i owe no respect to people who would do such a thing and i spit on the school and its students and masters

[kwaichang]

It is better to be a disgrace to one art, than a disgrace to all MA as your :D self KC

[goju]

actally being that shaolin birthed tons of different styles i think that category fits you lol after all how many forms do they supposedly teach there 900 lol

is it just me or is is impossible to leanr 900 forms in your life time
as i recall from a book my leung shum tradtionall you were taught two to three a year


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

add to the fact that the shaolin do schools never do demonstrations at martial art art exhibits or competes
but of course there style is too deadly to use in competion ahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha ahahah

[kwaichang]

So Baqualin how are you , I will be up this month maybe maybe we can have lunch and train some. Talk to you on the PM KC

[Baqualin]

So Baqualin how are you , I will be up this month maybe maybe we can have lunch and train some. Talk to you on the PM KC

Sounds good....let me know.

Hey, don't waste your time with Cujo he's just another idiot hiding behind a key board trying to stir up sh!t......anybody with that kind of attitude has major issues....the Soards probably kicked him out.:eek:
BQ

[Baqualin]

i owe no respect to people who would do such a thing and i spit on the school and its students and masters[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a line out of an old Star Trek movie.:rolleyes:

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=goju;933935]actally being that shaolin birthed tons of different styles i think that category fits you lol after all how many forms do they supposedly teach there 900 lol

Shows how much he knows about Shaolin:rolleyes:

is it just me or is is impossible to leanr 900 forms in your life time
as i recall from a book my leung shum tradtionall you were taught two to three a year

He's Learning from books eh
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

add to the fact that the shaolin do schools never do demonstrations at martial art art exhibits or competes

Once again he shows how much he really knows......not true:rolleyes:

[Judge Pen]

To paraphrase the bard, cujos posts are tales told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

He is obviously so much smarter than all of us, yet he will believe any anonymous post on the internet as long as it supports the conclusion he is trying to reach.

Ok, cujo, post videos of your katas, forms, training drills, fights etc. and I'll repost mine. A little friendly exchange of information with the peanut gallery free to comment. Surely one with such credibility and knowledge can do this..... or will you make an excuse. (No time, no camera, no computer, don't want to waste my time etc.) Don't worry, we've heard all the excuses before.

BTW, KC, you would look good with a shaved head, but you'll need to grow a soul patch or a fu man chu to really complete the look.

[Baqualin]

At least Cujo brought everybody out again.......great to hear from all:D
BQ

PS,
KC would look good with a Fu:)

[OldandUsed]

I am truly amazed that this thread is still alive and kicking (sorry, could not resist the pun).

Haven't been around for a while. How are all of you SD guys doing? I left/retired in 1998 after 28 years.

[Judge Pen]

I am truly amazed that this thread is still alive and kicking (sorry, could not resist the pun).

Haven't been around for a while. How are all of you SD guys doing? I left/retired in 1998 after 28 years.

Nice to meet you. 28 years in 1998. You have certaily been in a cat-bird seat to see how the art has grown and transitioned. Where did you train if you don't mind me asking?

[goju]

how am i learning from books leung shums an eagle claw stylist i dont know eagle claw lol
and what its tur shaolin do claims to have around 900 forms thats impossible to know that many

and know shaolin doh dose not participate in competions supposedly there technique is too deadly to use lol ig uess doing their forms are too dangerous to watch as well thats why they at the very least dont stick to form competions


some one said thats because they are frauds and know theyd get laughed out of the place but hey who knows :)



it is so easy to ruffle your guys feathers you know deep deep down inside your being scammed you just dont want to admit youve wasted time and money on a bogus art
plus youd have to regrow back your hair lol

[OldandUsed]

I had originally started SD in 1970 at Eastern Kentucky University. Have been in classes taught by Master Sin, Master Hiang, Leaonard, Green, Fernandez, Johnson and others. Was a contemporary of the Soards before they moved to CO. Know Mullins and like him, and several of the old timers. trained with most of the guys with Master Hiang. As a mater of fact, his signature is on most of my belt certificates and I think an awful lot of him. I was one of the ones that had some training before SD, trained in other arts while in SD and now have an independent school that trains "traditional martial arts in a non-traditional manner".

[goju]

and the ones who are defending shaolin doh are ther one students gee what a suprise lol

i dont have the know how of how to send pics and videos im not very computer savy however i can send pics of my self throwing kicks or doing the splits or whatever else with my camera phone to your email
thats about all i can do if you wanna see em leave me your email and ill send em

[goju]

how coem none of you will explain how your history maes no sense or why you have japanese characters on your stuff or call your forms kata and have ippon kumite lol or how it is possible to know 900 forms? so many holes in your stuff and know one can fill them

ive noticed none of you ever respond to that

why? :)

[OldandUsed]

Maybe it has all been addressed previously and we want you to go back and read the thread. Honestly, don't you have anything better to do? I practiced SD for years and enjoyed it. It was not and is not my only art, but it was fun and kept me in shape. It is just that simple. No mystery, it was fun to do and I met a lot of great people. I have since moved on to other things, so I do not carry the SD banner any longer. You sound bitter for some reason. Or is it you just enjoy making fun of something you know very little or nothing about?

[Lamassu]

how coem none of you will explain how your history maes no sense or why you have japanese characters on your stuff or call your forms kata and have ippon kumite lol or how it is possible to know 900 forms? so many holes in your stuff and know one can fill them

ive noticed none of you ever respond to that

why? :)

We have, several times in fact. Indonesia. For some strange reason Indonesians don't like the Chinese, any clue why? Just curious. Anyway, gi, katas, and all that japanese influence was a cover to mask chinese kung fu in Indonesia whos people again for some reason don't like the Chinese.

Ever use youtube? :)

[goju]

yes but the united states isnt indonesia now is it why would they not change it back

being that the japanese have tried to enslave alot of other asians in their history i dont see how claiming your japanese would help much

[OldandUsed]

Now I know you have heard the one about you must first empty your cup before you can taste my tea, right?

[tattooedmonk]

yes but the united states isnt indonesia now is it why would they not change it back

being that the japanese have tried to enslave alot of other asians in their history i dont see how claiming your japanese would help muchChange it back to what?? Some of the SD schools use sashes and silk pjs and some do not, does that change the content of the art? Does japanese words change the content?? in most cases the characters are the same, so whats the dif??

Ever heard of traditions??
SD keeps the traditions set by GGMICM, what is wrong with that??

[goju]

your teatastes like bull**** my freind so ill pass lol

besides the slrpee from seven eleven looks much more apitizing

[goju]

and no sd claims that the monks wore uniforms simialr to karate gis way back and then they change there story and say it was because of anti chinese racsims in indonesia lol why are there two different stories?

why didnt they get rid of the karate gis when shaolin do was brought here?
why do they have one and rwo step saprring like karate and tae kwondo? so they added karate into it??? tht makes no sense

why do they still call their forms katas?
shouldnt they still have been reckonized teaching a chinese art? obviously the indonesians would have seen that that was kung fu?

[OldandUsed]

You have all of the answers and are wise beyond your years. My most humble and abject apologies, Wise Goju. bowing deeply



HA!

[tattooedmonk]

and no sd claims that the monks wore uniforms simialr to karate gis way back and then they change there story and say it was because of anti chinese racsims in indonesia lol why are there two different stories?

why didnt they get rid of the karate gis when shaolin do was brought here?
why do they have one and rwo step saprring like karate and tae kwondo? so they added karate into it??? tht makes no sense

why do they still call their forms katas?
shouldnt they still have been reckonized teaching a chinese art? obviously the indonesians would have seen that that was kung fu?Once again , what were they supposed to change it to??

What your saying is that there can be only one reason and not multiple reason as to why , it has to be that cut and dry for you??

Where did the japanese get the idea for the kimono?? who were some of the first people to venture in and out of China?The priests??

The GI is very close to what the monks wear,period. Beause of racism and variouos other local issues the art was made to look like karate, period.

If some one wanted to make their art look japanese they would have to add some elements that made it look so , now wouldn't they??

I have seen one step techniques in many martial arts so it is not exclusive to karate.

[Old Noob]

You have all of the answers and are wise beyond your years. My most humble and abject apologies, Wise Goju. bowing deeply



HA!

You've finally seen the light. I've bowed down to his inpenetrable arguments and keen intellect long ago. He is clearly the next generation, the **** superior if you will. There is nothing we can tell him that he doesn't know. There is no martial art but his. He is perfection personified. He has no need of logic, of spelling, of punctuation, of factual underpinnings for his arguments. These are relics of the last evolutionary phase. In fact, we should all simply bow down to him now and stop this futile resistance.

Hail Goju the wise!!!

;)

[goju]

see as usual none of you shaolin do guys can explain your own bullplop

but maybe if you beleive it hard enough you can really convince yourself your learning shaolin lol



evil kung fu master laugh

BWGAGAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[goju]

you know i get the odd feeling theres just one shaolin do guy posting under multiple handles lol

[tattooedmonk]

you know i get the odd feeling theres just one shaolin do guy posting under multiple handles lolmaybe it's you?? I have answered your questions and yet you just dismiss them , it is now official, you are a troll.

[goju]

no i didnt i answered them above mojumbo

[tattooedmonk]

no i didnt i answered them above mojumboYou wanted answers, you got them, what seems to be the problem??

[OldandUsed]

This is better than television! Goju, your entertainment factor is off the scale, my strange little friend.

[goju]

still havent got a reply to my questions and youve been doing sd for how long geeeez lol

[goju]

You wanted answers, you got them, what seems to be the problem??

where? since ive been on here nobodys answered and i asked more questions to the supposed answer that was given and i still havent got any reply

[tattooedmonk]

Once again , what were they supposed to change it to??

What your saying is that there can be only one reason and not multiple reason as to why , it has to be that cut and dry for you??

Where did the japanese get the idea for the kimono?? who were some of the first people to venture in and out of China?The priests??

The GI is very close to what the monks wear,period. Beause of racism and variouos other local issues the art was made to look like karate, period.

If some one wanted to make their art look japanese they would have to add some elements that made it look so , now wouldn't they??

I have seen one step techniques in many martial arts so it is not exclusive to karate.try reading all the posts

[goju]

oh come on be reall! they *******ized there art to make it look like karate?
honestly it dosnt eve look like karate or taekwondo to tell you the truth basically it just looks made up

why wouldnt they have just taught in secret and kept the uniforms and names etc etc???? most kung fu school back then were supposed to any how

and no the karate gi looks like a bloody karate gi plain and simple

[goju]

and yes it is that cut and dry when you here two different stories its obvious that major bs is being produced


expalin how its possible to know 900 forms?

[tattooedmonk]

oh come on be reall! they *******ized there art to make it look like karate?
honestly it dosnt eve look like karate or taekwondo to tell you the truth basically it just looks made up

why wouldnt they have just taught in secret and kept the uniforms and names etc etc???? most kung fu school back then were supposed to any how

and no the karate gi looks like a bloody karate gi plain and simpleit appears that way, doesnt it??

The art would have been lost .

What were they supposed to change the uniforms to??

It is durable and rugged and wil not be torn off of you as someone grabs you and attempts a throw.

I guess you have never seen a monks unifom up close. The construction is the same , minus the color.

[tattooedmonk]

and yes it is that cut and dry when you here two different stories its obvious that major bs is being produced


expalin how its possible to know 900 forms?They are not 2 different stories they are two reasons. Their is no real story, only facts.

It is possible to learn 900 forms just like it is possible to learn 900 of anything, it depends on your brains capacity. If you believe that you can not learn that many then keep telling yourself that and you won't.

There are people that have a large capacity to learn many things, Master The` is one of them.

[goju]

why change anything as i said why not just teach in secret? they supposedly had to hide the fact it was shaolin no? then obviously they were advertising the style all over place thus making it reasonable that they woud just keep it secret and teach it to only chinese there fore not making it needed to add all these karate elements or what ever you call them

uh huh sure it is an the karate gi can easily be confused for a three peice pistripe hugo boss suit