Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

They still speak Japanese in Okinawa. and ki is still ki. See, you're mixing terminology yourself. Who knows what your brand of goju ryu will be by the time you’re done.Hey JP , you train with Master Mullins, correct??

[goju]

ugh you chimpanzee i swear!!! i said you win the sparring match with the lower belt with out severly injuring him so he learns soemthing. runnning across the room playing scratch fighting wont accomplish anything

and i think im being rather fait you said youve done karate tradtionally they throw your butt in their and they go all out dosnt matter who high or low your belt is its full contact almost full force as well

[Judge Pen]

i wont do anything with my art but practice it and hopefuly bring it into the cage someday soon i have no interst in teaching because it is to hard to keep a good student

ill give you a hint why with sin kwang the

CA_SE HE'S A S_AM AR_IS_

WOULD YOU LIKE TO BY A VOWEL OR SPIN THE WHEEL?

You're avoiding my point though. You have modified what you have been taught already. No one outside of your uncle can verify what it is you have been taught or where it came from. I'm not calling you names or anything else, but what you know has unprovable elements in it also. It would be easy for someone to say "you didn't learn jack--you must have learned it all from a book and are trying to pass it off as having a super-secret teacher that was really good but kept a low profile" and all you could do was talk about your own experiences.

[goju]

any remember there were no names for anything originally the didnt call a hook punch a hook punch they just demonstrated it and you did it. simple as that

[Judge Pen]

yes they do now but if you want to keep tradtion proper you stick to the okinawan terms
and th okinwans adapted jajapense names to sell karate to japan
the sd history if iit would make any sense should have adopted indonesian ones

Ok, so what is the Ryukyuan language term for "breath"? Teach me some of the traditional terminology that pre-dated Japanese appeasement.

And Master The does use some interesting dialects. He uses "chien" instead of "chuan" or "quan" for fist. I think some schools have gone to a more traditional chinese pronounciation, but GM The still says "chien"

[Judge Pen]

any remember there were no names for anything originally the didnt call a hook punch a hook punch they just demonstrated it and you did it. simple as that

No, they called it a punch in their native language. What would that term be (if you know)?

[Judge Pen]

Hey JP , you train with Master Mullins, correct??

I do. I don't go to class that much anymore. I reached 4th and I train on my own when I have time (which isn't as often as I like).

[goju]

You're avoiding my point though. You have modified what you have been taught already. No one outside of your uncle can verify what it is you have been taught or where it came from. I'm not calling you names or anything else, but what you know has unprovable elements in it also. It would be easy for someone to say "you didn't learn jack--you must have learned it all from a book and are trying to pass it off as having a super-secret teacher that was really good but kept a low profile" and all you could do was talk about your own experiences.
how am i modifying it? im practice exactly what im taught and from talking to to other goju practioners ive been taught the same thing they have. nothings changed its all traditonal if anything its kept more tradtional than most


gota grab breakfast ill respond to your posts later!

[tattooedmonk]

ugh you chimpanzee i swear!!! i said you win the sparring match with the lower belt with out severly injuring him so he learns soemthing. runnning across the room playing scratch fighting wont accomplish anything

and i think im being rather fait you said youve done karate tradtionally they throw your butt in their and they go all out dosnt matter who high or low your belt is its full contact almost full force as wellonce again, sparring is not win or lose. I understand what you are saying but Sparring is a training exercise . If you want to fight at low, half, full force then that is fine. However , I know that in lower belt class( CSC) there is no to low force or contact involved.

[Judge Pen]

how am i modifying it? im practice exactly what im taught and from talking to to other goju practioners ive been taught the same thing they have. nothings changed its all traditonal if anything its kept more tradtional than most


gota grab breakfast ill respond to your posts later!

Oh, then it must have been modified before it was taught to you. I doubt they used English in Okinawa 100 years ago.

[goju]

No, they called it a punch in their native language. What would that term be (if you know)?
no its not im not bsing you here the the way karate was orignally taught was casual and informal there were no books written on the style no names for the style no names for the kata no names for the strikes etc etc

i have an old kung fu magazine some where in my closet on uechi ryu thats notes the same thing

and even then if i use the japaeses terms then what kind of punch a hook? uppercut theres not just a punch you know?

[tattooedmonk]

I do. I don't go to class that much anymore. I reached 4th and I train on my own when I have time (which isn't as often as I like).
I saw his school online . I like it . Big open space , nice mats , etc. I give you props for being so mellow and diplomatic in this thread. Thanks for all of your input and knowledge.No matter what keep training.

[Judge Pen]

once again, sparring is not win or lose. I understand what you are saying but Sparring is a training exercise . If you want to fight at low, half, full force then that is fine. However , I know that in lower belt class( CSC) there is no to low force or contact involved.
Then how can you tell that you were really better than an upper-rank sparring under these paramters?

[MasterKiller]

my unlce trained under cho then he trained me its not suprising cho was an okiniwan stylist as well a lot of koreans masters no a chinese style or an okinawan one for example praying mantis kung fu is real big down there in korea

Yes, there is a lot of Mantis in Korea, but that's because Lin Pan Zhang, who studied under both Ji Chung Ting and Sun Yuan Chang, and Kang Kyung Bang, who was a student of Hao Heng Lu, immigrated there in the 1940s. Those lineages can be traced back quite a bit. ;)

[tattooedmonk]

Then how can you tell that you were really better than an upper-rank sparring under these paramters? Unless he just walked into the class and Darth Mauled the guy!!!:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

[Old Noob]

Oh, then it must have been modified before it was taught to you. I doubt they used English in Okinawa 100 years ago.

I admire you for continuing to try to break through. If anyone can, you can.

Also wanted to compliment your comments on lineage a few pages back. Right on.

[Judge Pen]

no its not im not bsing you here the the way karate was orignally taught was casual and informal there were no books written on the style no names for the style no names for the kata no names for the strikes etc etc

i have an old kung fu magazine some where in my closet on uechi ryu thats notes the same thing

and even then if i use the japaeses terms then what kind of punch a hook? uppercut theres not just a punch you know?

I'm not disputing the laid-back teaching or terminolgy (I'm not agreeing with it either--I don't know enough of the Okinawan arts to agree or disagree) but I'm calling you out on not knowing the original terminolgy. See, my wife is fluent in Japanese and I know from her that many terms do not have an exact translation to English. So to be "true-blue traditional" at least a basic understanding of the languge is important. (this, of course is one of the criticisms of SD which you yourself have trumpted). You want to mix terminolgy or use English terms instead of Okinawan then great--but don't criticize SD's mixture as furter evidence of fallacy when you are guilty of the same. That is the very definition of a hypocrite.

If I wanted to be an uninformed critic I could argue that your lack of knowing the basic language or terminology is further evidence that you didn't learn real goju ryu. You either read it from a book or were mislead by your teacher who didn't know himslef; therefore, he justified his ignorance by saying "traditioanlly you just call it a hook punch." I'm not doing that because it would be disrespectful and I would be a hypocrite myself because I don't have the knowledge required to make that argument, but it would be easy for one with less scruples or sense to make, wouldn't it?

[tattooedmonk]

I'm not disputing the laid-back teaching or terminolgy (I'm not agreeing with it either--I don't know enough of the Okinawan arts to agree or disagree) but I'm calling you out on not knowing the original terminolgy. See, my wife is fluent in Japanese and I know from her that many terms do not have an exact translation to English. So to be "true-blue traditional" at least a basic understanding of the languge is important. (this, of course is one of the criticisms of SD which you yourself have trumpted). You want to mix terminolgy or use English terms instead of Okinawan then great--but don't criticize SD's mixture as furter evidence of fallacy when you are guilty of the same. That is the very definition of a hypocrite.

If I wanted to be an uninformed critic I could argue that your lack of knowing the basic language or terminology is further evidence that you didn't learn real goju ryu. You either read it from a book or were mislead by your teacher who didn't know himslef; therefore, he justified his ignorance by saying "traditioanlly you just call it a hook punch." I'm not doing that because it would be disrespectful and I would be a hypocrite myself because I don't have the knowledge required to make that argument, but it would be easy for one with less scruples or sense to make, wouldn't it?As far as I am concerned there is the DEATH BLOW !!!:p:eek::D:cool:Good Job JP!!!

[goju]

Oh, then it must have been modified before it was taught to you. I doubt they used English in Okinawa 100 years ago.
really you think?

[Old Noob]

I think I understand. We need to do as you say and not as you do. You are not required to apply your own logic. I get it now. That's why you're smart when you say that, if the Soards suck, then all SD must suck and we're stupid when we say that our teachers are good, therefore SD must be good. That's why it's okay for you to tell us not to judge when we haven't trained at the one school where you trained but it's not okay for us to tell you not to judge all of SD when you haven't trained in our schools. Thank you so much for shedding some light on this. To think that all this time I've been walking around thinking hypocrisy is a bad thing.

Thanks.

P.S.
It was really lame of me to criticize your inability to read, write, and spell. That really was a pathetic reach on my part. You should feel free to be as unintelligible in your conversations as you wish. Why have any standards whatsoever? Sorry about that.

He hasn't gotten the "hypocrisy is bad" thing yet JP.

[Judge Pen]

really you think?

So what's the original term for "breath" in goju ryu? How about "hook-punch"? I'm curious now.

[goju]

Yes, there is a lot of Mantis in Korea, but that's because Lin Pan Zhang, who studied under both Ji Chung Ting and Sun Yuan Chang, and Kang Kyung Bang, who was a student of Hao Heng Lu, immigrated there in the 1940s. Those lineages can be traced back quite a bit. ;)

and chojun miyagi travled extensively as well as his tudent to different parts including korea not to meantion there wer numerous koreans studying karate in japan

mas oyama comes to mind

[tattooedmonk]

really you think?
then you didnt learn "REAL" Goju Ryu did you???

[goju]

I'm not disputing the laid-back teaching or terminolgy (I'm not agreeing with it either--I don't know enough of the Okinawan arts to agree or disagree) but I'm calling you out on not knowing the original terminolgy. See, my wife is fluent in Japanese and I know from her that many terms do not have an exact translation to English. So to be "true-blue traditional" at least a basic understanding of the languge is important. (this, of course is one of the criticisms of SD which you yourself have trumpted). You want to mix terminolgy or use English terms instead of Okinawan then great--but don't criticize SD's mixture as furter evidence of fallacy when you are guilty of the same. That is the very definition of a hypocrite.

If I wanted to be an uninformed critic I could argue that your lack of knowing the basic language or terminology is further evidence that you didn't learn real goju ryu. You either read it from a book or were mislead by your teacher who didn't know himslef; therefore, he justified his ignorance by saying "traditioanlly you just call it a hook punch." I'm not doing that because it would be disrespectful and I would be a hypocrite myself because I don't have the knowledge required to make that argument, but it would be easy for one with less scruples or sense to make, wouldn't it?
how can i learn the basic terminolgy in okinawan there was none! lol what is so hard to understnad about that they use the japanese terminolgy now and i know them but i dont use them why should i instead of talking about what its called why not just practice the dam technique?

and as i noted sd using japanes eterms makes no sense despite your attempt to give it credibilty karates does because they were trying to market it to a japanese audience

[goju]

As far as I am concerned there is the DEATH BLOW !!!:p:eek::D:cool:Good Job JP!!!

nah i fixed him lol

[goju]

then you didnt learn "REAL" Goju Ryu did you???

and how is that?

[goju]

and i never said sd is a scam just because of the odd use of japanese names the fact the style dosnt resemble kung fu in the least the fact that they hand out belts by the butt load have hundreds of schools and have a special grandmaster that claims to know 900 forms is what makes them a mcdojo

[Judge Pen]

how can i learn the basic terminolgy in okinawan there was none! lol what is so hard to understnad about that they use the japanese terminolgy now and i know them but i dont use them why should i instead of talking about what its called why not just practice the dam technique?

and as i noted sd using japanes eterms makes no sense despite your attempt to give it credibilty karates does because they were trying to market it to a japanese audience

marketing to americans who only knew of karate terminology makes sense to anyone who does not want to be willfully ignorant. And it's ok to say "I don't know the original terminology before it was changed to appease a Japanese audience." OR "I don't know the Japanese terminology after the appeasement with the exception of 'karate' and 'sanchin' (which is the name of a form from a style which traditionally didn't name forms) and "ki" (which I find offensive becasue it wasn't the original Okinawan term--which I don't know incidently--so I'll revert back to the Chinese "chi" because I like that one better).

I don't know these things either, but the difference between you and me is that I know there are several things that I don't know. But now I'm ripping off Socrates.

[tattooedmonk]

So what's the original term for "breath" in goju ryu? How about "hook-punch"? I'm curious now.I know the answer to those questions and dont even practice the art, but I will give him a chance to answer.

[Judge Pen]

I know the answer to those questions and dont even practice the art, but I will give him a chance to answer.

He has had time to google it by now.

[goju]

well as i said how would i know the original terminology?. there wasnt one. i guess if you want get specific the japanese names were the original since they didnt have a name for a karate punch or kick
you can honestly beleive that if you want to or not you said yourself you not knowledgeable enough about the okinawan arts to debate so why do you try to?

why would i use japaense terminolgy when im talking to you guys

oh god i said kungfu "qigong" magazine earlier too! gasp that must make me a fraud!

[goju]

He has had time to google it by now.

answer what?

[Old Noob]

marketing to americans who only knew of karate terminology makes sense to anyone who does not want to be willfully ignorant. And it's ok to say "I don't know the original terminology before it was changed to appease a Japanese audience." OR "I don't know the Japanese terminology after the appeasement with the exception of 'karate' and 'sanchin' (which is the name of a form from a style which traditionally didn't name forms) and "ki" (which I find offensive becasue it wasn't the original Okinawan term--which I don't know incidently--so I'll revert back to the Chinese "chi" because I like that one better).

You don't know goju ryu. The difference between you and me is that I know there are several things that I don't know. But now I'm ripping off Socrates.

Goju does play the role of a Socratic straight man pretty well. He should change his name to Meno or Alcibiades.

I know nobody else will get that but it's cracking me up.

[goju]

well theres different hooking punches whic one do you mean?

[tattooedmonk]

well as i said how would i know the original terminology?. there wasnt one. i guess if you want get specific the japanese names were the original since they didnt have a name for a karate punch or kick
you can honestly beleive that if you want to or not you said yourself you not knowledgeable enough about the okinawan arts to debate so why do you try to?

why would i use japaense terminolgy when im talking to you guys

oh god i said kungfu "qigong" magazine earlier too! gasp that must make me a fraud!By doing research and truely studying said art. There has been for over a hundred years. I know enough about your said art just by looking it up n the net. NOW I KNOW GOJU RYU!!:D:p:rolleyes::eek::cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Goju does play the role of a Socratic straight man pretty well. He should change his name to Meno or Alcibiades.

I know nobody else will get that but it's cracking me up.LMAO:p:eek::D:cool: . well almost no one!!!

[goju]

so im supposed to research words that didnt exist lol yes choku miyagi used japanese terms
a hook punch is kagi zuki
breath is konyo danto

they may not be spelled right and they differ from different goju schools as well

[Judge Pen]

well as i said how would i know the original terminology?. there wasnt one. i guess if you want get specific the japanese names were the original since they didnt have a name for a karate punch or kick
you can honestly beleive that if you want to or not you said yourself you not knowledgeable enough about the okinawan arts to debate so why do you try to?

I'm debating logic and reason. The facts are incidental

why would i use japaense terminolgy when im talking to you guys

Because you were talking about what was traditional. If you say you know traditioanl goju ryu, then we expect you to know traditioanl goju ryu terminology. But since you are now saying you leanred an art called goju ryu from an unknown teacher that no one else has heard of, I should give you a pass.

oh god i said kungfu "qigong" magazine earlier too! gasp that must make me a fraud!

I;ve got to get back to work now. Train hard everyone and ignore what people say on the internet. Keep sweating.

[Judge Pen]

well theres different hooking punches whic one do you mean?

you said a "hook punch was a hook punch" I guess the terminology would help us understand the difference.

[goju]

yes but if we get into names goju has a variety of different circular hooking punches i still call them all khook punches but which one you want where not talking boxing here goju has a lot of different hand strikes old boy!

[Judge Pen]

so im supposed to research words that didnt exist lol yes choku miyagi used japanese terms
a hook punch is kagi zuki
breath is konyo danto

they may not be spelled right and they differ from different goju schools as well

Words didn't exist? They used sign language instead?

So choku miyagi used Japanese terms. I thought Okinawans only adopted Japanese terminolgy out of appeasement. Was that terminolgy lost?

[tattooedmonk]

I;ve got to get back to work now. Train hard everyone and ignore what people say on the internet. Keep sweating.Have a good day!!! we will!!!

[tattooedmonk]

How much of the art did your uncle teach you ? How long have you been doing GoJU Ryu??Did your uncle teach you any forms ?? Did your uncle teach you the terms used for those forms? was there a langage barrier between your uncle and his teacher?? Did your uncle learn from this korean master during the korean war??Please help me, I am trying to understand .

[tattooedmonk]

yes but if we get into names goju has a variety of different circular hooking punches i still call them all khook punches but which one you want where not talking boxing here goju has a lot of different hand strikes old boy! like a boxing hook punch, with a vertical fist ,along the horizontal plain coming in from the outside ( lateral postion to medial postion) to make contact ,high ( head) middle ( upperbody) or low ( lower body).

[tattooedmonk]

yes but if we get into names goju has a variety of different circular hooking punches i still call them all khook punches but which one you want where not talking boxing here goju has a lot of different hand strikes old boy!How do you distinguish the difference between them then??How are you going to pass on your art then???

[Baqualin]

How do you distinguish the difference between them then??How are you going to pass on your art then???

How is he supposed to know the difference........JP posted a picture of Oso connecting with a hook to Jp's head and Cujo thought it was a jab.:confused:
BQ

[Judge Pen]

How is he supposed to know the difference........JP posted a picture of Oso connecting with a hook to Jp's head and Cujo thought it was a jab.:confused:
BQ
At least my head's good for something....

[goju]

what is so hard to grasp about this concept the okinawans did not originally name the forms or techniques
its simple really folks

let me try to explain this to you if i was going to show you a side kick i would just demonstrate it to you and then you do it and then id correct you until you got it right simple as that

[goju]

How do you distinguish the difference between them then??How are you going to pass on your art then???

i have no interest in passing on my style

[goju]

How is he supposed to know the difference........JP posted a picture of Oso connecting with a hook to Jp's head and Cujo thought it was a jab.:confused:
BQ

i dont know what youd want to call that but that guy was throwing one of the ugliest punches ive ever seen in my life if thats suppose to be a boxing jab .......ahahahhahaha

[goju]

How do you distinguish the difference between them then??How are you going to pass on your art then???

what do you mean you know the difference between them by preforming them not by their names duh

[goju]

How much of the art did your uncle teach you ? How long have you been doing GoJU Ryu??Did your uncle teach you any forms ?? Did your uncle teach you the terms used for those forms? was there a langage barrier between your uncle and his teacher?? Did your uncle learn from this korean master during the korean war??Please help me, I am trying to understand .

mu unlce learned all twelve forms and all the techniques in th system i know six of the twelve forms so far yes he showed me the terms used and explained why they are in japanese

no sung cho had a school in colorado my unlce learned there

[Judge Pen]

what is so hard to grasp about this concept the okinawans did not originally name the forms or techniques
its simple really folks

let me try to explain this to you if i was going to show you a side kick i would just demonstrate it to you and then you do it and then id correct you until you got it right simple as that
Nothing is hard to grasp excpet that in the native language is the terminology that best describes the technique. You can learn an art without that understanding, but I do think you are missing something as a result. But, as is often pointed out in SD discussions (and as was pointed out by you) the mixing of terminology or the absence of the native terminology is suspect. For you and for SD. You've satisfied yourself that you are getting the real goju ryu despite that particular deficiency. Good for you; your particular circumstance, however, should at least garner some understanding that the terminology isn't as important as the technique, but yet you still show a double-standard on that point when its convenient.

[Judge Pen]

i dont know what youd want to call that but that guy was throwing one of the ugliest punches ive ever seen in my life if thats suppose to be a boxing jab .......ahahahhahaha

It was a hook punch not a jab. Don't waffle, you thought it was a jab at first.

And ugly doesn't mean ineffective. Some of the best and most technical people I know couldn't fight their way out of a paper-bag, shile some ugly and sloppy form people are hellacious fighters. Look at Ali's "phantom punch" against Liston. Not text book and not pretty, but it worked.

[Baqualin]

i dont know what youd want to call that but that guy was throwing one of the ugliest punches ive ever seen in my life if thats suppose to be a boxing jab .......ahahahhahaha

Come on Cujo...I know you can read....for the 500th time it was a right hook (YOU THOUGHT IT WAS A JAB)and if he connected it to your head you would feel just how ugly it is.
BQ

[tattooedmonk]

mu unlce learned all twelve forms and all the techniques in th system i know six of the twelve forms so far yes he showed me the terms used and explained why they are in japanese

no sung cho had a school in colorado my unlce learned thereSo you are a student of your uncles right now?? And if you know the terms why is it so hard to post them and then explain what they are??? maybe some pics to show us the difference between them and then maybe explain why they are called what they are???

[Judge Pen]

Come on Cujo...I know you can read....for the 500th time it was a right hook (YOU THOUGHT IT WAS A JAB)and if he connected it to your head you would feel just how ugly it is.
BQ

BQ, it's obvious that Oso would never hit goju with a punch that ugly because you can tell by his textbook form that he is obviously a better and more accomplished fighter than anyone here. Get with the program; we are in the company of greatness here.

[Baqualin]

BQ, it's obvious that Oso would never hit goju with a punch that ugly because you can tell by his textbook form that he is obviously a better and more accomplished fighter than anyone here. Get with the program; we are in the company of greatness here.

I'm bowing as I type:D
BQ

[tattooedmonk]

he was 3 back in 1990. He quit the CSC 5 years ago, so this means he was 17 when he was beating the snot out of black belts and now he is 22 or 23. This explains everything.

[tattooedmonk]

I'm bowing as I type:D
BQHe!! I am kneeling and bowing!!!:p:eek::D:cool:

[Judge Pen]

he was 3 back in 1990. He quit the CSC 5 years ago, so this means he was 17 when he was beating the snot out of black belts and now he is 22 or 23. This explains everything.

A prodigy then. I'm looking forward to his MMA career.

Goju, you actively train with your uncle? Are there more students or just you? How often do you spar and where do you find sparring partners?

[Baqualin]

he was 3 back in 1990. He quit the CSC 5 years ago, so this means he was 17 when he was beating the snot out of black belts and now he is 22 or 23. This explains everything.

I almost fell out of my chair when he said there were no low kicks or traps in SD:rolleyes:
I guess he never learn the basic 30 short forms.

Also there has been cases (in our school) where upper level BB's have been given an attitude adjustment for picking on lower belts. As far as uppers coming in and fighting to the level of the underclassmen....yes to a certain extent.....but if you push them they will push back harder....if you get ****y they will put you on your butt quick.
BQ

[Judge Pen]

I almost fell out of my chair when he said there were no low kicks or traps in SD:rolleyes:
I guess he never learn the basic 30 short forms.

Also there has been cases (in our school) where upper level BB's have been given an attitude adjustment for picking on lower belts. As far as uppers coming in and fighting to the level of the underclassmen....yes to a certain extent.....but if you push them they will push back harder....if you get ****y they will put you on your butt quick.
BQ

No traps or sweeps? I missed that nugget of information. I guess I've been doiwng it wrong all this time.

That's what I love about sparring. I learn something everytime I cross hands with someone and I am often humbled. Anyone who isn't humbled isn't paying attention.

[kwaichang]

Kage tsuki or sometimes known as Mawashi or circular technique. Funikoshi was Okinawan and brought his art to japan in 1921. He used terminology to teach it his art is from Itosu and Azato two well renound master of Shuri and Naha Te he wrote his fist book in 1930,s I guess he used pics only to describe the techniques. Also the only Cho I know of is He Ill Cho a great kicker of course I dont know them all. Go Ju you slay me I still think you are Ralph Machio KC

[tattooedmonk]

A prodigy then. I'm looking forward to his MMA career.

ME TOO!!:rolleyes::p:eek::cool::D

[tattooedmonk]

I almost fell out of my chair when he said there were no low kicks or traps in SD:rolleyes:
I guess he never learn the basic 30 short forms.

Also there has been cases (in our school) where upper level BB's have been given an attitude adjustment for picking on lower belts. As far as uppers coming in and fighting to the level of the underclassmen....yes to a certain extent.....but if you push them they will push back harder....if you get ****y they will put you on your butt quick.
BQ
I missed that. :rolleyes::eek: The longer this guy goes on the more it starts to smell like BS.

I agree, thats the way it should be!!!

[tattooedmonk]

Kage tsuki or sometimes known as Mawashi or circular technique. Funikoshi was Okinawan and brought his art to japan in 1921. He used terminology to teach it his art is from Itosu and Azato two well renound master of Shuri and Naha Te he wrote his fist book in 1930,s I guess he used pics only to describe the techniques. Also the only Cho I know of is He Ill Cho a great kicker of course I dont know them all. Go Ju you slay me I still think you are Ralph Machio KC I was just reading about all that. I am currently looking for the school in denver( area) that he is talking about.
He isnt old enough to be the karate kid, but maybe thats who he thinks he is!!!

[goju]

Nothing is hard to grasp excpet that in the native language is the terminology that best describes the technique. You can learn an art without that understanding, but I do think you are missing something as a result. But, as is often pointed out in SD discussions (and as was pointed out by you) the mixing of terminology or the absence of the native terminology is suspect. For you and for SD. You've satisfied yourself that you are getting the real goju ryu despite that particular deficiency. Good for you; your particular circumstance, however, should at least garner some understanding that the terminology isn't as important as the technique, but yet you still show a double-standard on that point when its convenient.
no its noty a double standard there wer no words for the techniques thus there is no way to know of something that dosnt exist
how is that the same as that nonsensical excuse for sd guys using japanese terms?

[goju]

It was a hook punch not a jab. Don't waffle, you thought it was a jab at first.

And ugly doesn't mean ineffective. Some of the best and most technical people I know couldn't fight their way out of a paper-bag, shile some ugly and sloppy form people are hellacious fighters. Look at Ali's "phantom punch" against Liston. Not text book and not pretty, but it worked.

i dint know what the hell it was to ne honest so i just said it was a hook

[kwaichang]

Hey but I am a fraud and he is the real deal. Heres how I see it. He was a Green belt in a green belt class , the BB was there and was sparring them. The BB was going by the rules and Go Ju said I want to spar the BB said ok and Go Ju hit him harder than was agreed to and the BB lost. So GoJu as known has no respect and was unfair in his tactics. That is how he won. KC

[tattooedmonk]

no its noty a double standard there wer no words for the techniques thus there is no way to know of something that dosnt exist
how is that the same as that nonsensical excuse for sd guys using japanese terms?If Ie Chang Ming was hiding the art dont you think that using chinese terms in public would draw attention? Master Ie went all over Asia after he left China before going to Indonesia . It is possible that when he picked up more Chinese arts, lets say in Japan ,then most likely they would be using Japanese and not chinese, correct??

[Old Noob]

no its noty a double standard there wer no words for the techniques thus there is no way to know of something that dosnt exist
how is that the same as that nonsensical excuse for sd guys using japanese terms?

Unless your martial art was created by a bunch of deaf-mutes, there are words for the techniques. Just because they weren't formally recorded doesn't mean that there weren't Okinawan words for the techniques. You just don't know them because they were recorded once the art moved through Japan. The point these nice gentlemen are trying to make is that the current SD curriculum was put to paper after it had migrated through Indonesia and, consequently and because of the Indonesian preference for things Japanese, the current terminology partakes of both Japanese and Chinese terminology.

Not everything you don't know doesn't exist dude.

[kwaichang]

Good point TTM I think I heard that somewhere what about Shuri Te its a Chinese art taught in japan do they teach in Chinese or Japanese if its Japanese then its not real CMA KC

[tattooedmonk]

Hey but I am a fraud and he is the real deal. Heres how I see it. He was a Green belt in a green belt class , the BB was there and was sparring them. The BB was going by the rules and Go Ju said I want to spar the BB said ok and Go Ju hit him harder than was agreed to and the BB lost. So GoJu as known has no respect and was unfair in his tactics. That is how he won. KC
Thats assuming that it actually happened!!
:eek::rolleyes::confused::D

[tattooedmonk]

no its noty a double standard there wer no words for the techniques thus there is no way to know of something that dosnt exist
how is that the same as that nonsensical excuse for sd guys using japanese terms?But that was hundreds of years ago , what about today???

[tattooedmonk]

Good point TTM I think I heard that somewhere what about Shuri Te its a Chinese art taught in japan do they teach in Chinese or Japanese if its Japanese then its not real CMA KC Cant be, they use japanese terminology and wear a gi!!!:p;):eek::D

[Judge Pen]

no its noty a double standard there wer no words for the techniques thus there is no way to know of something that dosnt exist
how is that the same as that nonsensical excuse for sd guys using japanese terms?

You honestly believe that early okinawan martial arts had no words for the techniques? They didn't call a punch a punch in their native dilect? Come on, your dense but no-one is that dense.

So they called a punch a pucnh and a kick a kick in their native dialect. Then once it was given the Japanese treatment, they started using japanese terms because that made sense to the japanese that were learning the okinawan art. Fine, but a punch is still a punch, you've just changed the language that your using. That's a far cry from saying that there was no terminology.

And you, as a student of goju ryu, use american terms and chinese terms to describe an art that used to use okinawan and japaese words. Because that makes sense to you at this time. Ok, whatever works for you.

I'm sorry, if you don't see the parallels then you must have gotten hit to hard in the head before.

EDIT: Old Noob said it much better than me. I should go back to reading my medical records....

[Judge Pen]

i dint know what the hell it was to ne honest so i just said it was a hook

No you said it was a jab. :rolleyes: Or maybe that was before you knew the right terminolgy to call if a hook.

[tattooedmonk]

You honestly believe that early okinawan martial arts had no words for the techniques? They didn't call a punch a punch in their native dilect? Come on, your dense but no-one is that dense.

So they called a punch a pucnh and a kick a kick in their native dialect. Then once it was given the Japanese treatment, they started using japanese terms because that made sense to the japanese that were learning the okinawan art. Fine, but a punch is still a punch, you've just changed the language that your using. That's a far cry from saying that there was no terminology.

And you, as a student of goju ryu, use american terms and chinese terms to describe an art that used to use okinawan and japaese words. Because that makes sense to you at this time. Ok, whatever works for you.

I'm sorry, if you don't see the parallels then you must have gotten hit to hard in the head before.

EDIT: Old Noob said it much better than me. I should go back to reading my medical records....words and sign language, thats for laymen . most true masters learn by osmosis!!!

[goju]

he was 3 back in 1990. He quit the CSC 5 years ago, so this means he was 17 when he was beating the snot out of black belts and now he is 22 or 23. This explains everything.

oh dear your turning into kwai

fellas i no this is harsh but i gott break this to you ..
you being old dosnt mean you know more... about martial arts.. or anything for that matter...it just means um well your old! lol

[goju]

A prodigy then. I'm looking forward to his MMA career.

Goju, you actively train with your uncle? Are there more students or just you? How often do you spar and where do you find sparring partners?

yes i do its just me and him when i was at the mma gym we sparred on wedsdays and saturdays since ive left i odnt have anybody to spar with at the moment unfortunately th elast time i sparred was about two weeks ago before i quit the gym

[goju]

I almost fell out of my chair when he said there were no low kicks or traps in SD:rolleyes:
I guess he never learn the basic 30 short forms.

Also there has been cases (in our school) where upper level BB's have been given an attitude adjustment for picking on lower belts. As far as uppers coming in and fighting to the level of the underclassmen....yes to a certain extent.....but if you push them they will push back harder....if you get ****y they will put you on your butt quick.
BQ

uh huh im sure they do

[goju]

Kage tsuki or sometimes known as Mawashi or circular technique. Funikoshi was Okinawan and brought his art to japan in 1921. He used terminology to teach it his art is from Itosu and Azato two well renound master of Shuri and Naha Te he wrote his fist book in 1930,s I guess he used pics only to describe the techniques. Also the only Cho I know of is He Ill Cho a great kicker of course I dont know them all. Go Ju you slay me I still think you are Ralph Machio KC

so because you dont know them that makes the person a scam artist lol oh yes i forgot with you comment that if i had any idea who you are i wouldnt call you a fraud

you still havent explained to me who you are and why i should know who you are either dear boy! im curious

and id idnt know your teacher either or judge penn or tat monk whats ya point?

[goju]

I was just reading about all that. I am currently looking for the school in denver( area) that he is talking about.
He isnt old enough to be the karate kid, but maybe thats who he thinks he is!!!

what school csc enter chos school? i told you hes been gone for along time but ill ask my uncle where the gym was later

[kwaichang]

I bet Go Ju thinks Doogie Howser was a reaL Dr. YES BEING older does make us smarter than you as we have been aroun longer and experienced more. No matter how you slice it it is still bread. KC

[tattooedmonk]

oh dear your turning into kwai

fellas i no this is harsh but i gott break this to you ..
you being old dosnt mean you know more... about martial arts.. or anything for that matter...it just means um well your old! lol NO one ever said that. How long have you been doing MA??? The difference between us and you is you may have learned a few things , practiced a few things, but have studied nothing. I have studied practice and learned so has KC as well as the other guys in SD on this thread. Old is a state of mind . and there is nothing that is old about me , I am like good wine I have aged properly and now I taste great!!!

[tattooedmonk]

yes i do its just me and him when i was at the mma gym we sparred on wedsdays and saturdays since ive left i odnt have anybody to spar with at the moment unfortunately th elast time i sparred was about two weeks ago before i quit the gym
You sure quit a lot!!!

[kwaichang]

You dont know who Nishiama Kanazawa or Okazaki are? Howabout Homa or Umemoto 4 time all Japan Kendo Champ. To name a few. You are unlearned arent you ?? KC

[goju]

Unless your martial art was created by a bunch of deaf-mutes, there are words for the techniques. Just because they weren't formally recorded doesn't mean that there weren't Okinawan words for the techniques. You just don't know them because they were recorded once the art moved through Japan. The point these nice gentlemen are trying to make is that the current SD curriculum was put to paper after it had migrated through Indonesia and, consequently and because of the Indonesian preference for things Japanese, the current terminology partakes of both Japanese and Chinese terminology.

Not everything you don't know doesn't exist dude.

look let me put it this way since you guys dont know your arsehole from your elbow about karate


why do you think all the karate styles nowarent that old lok at goju shotokan etc etc they are all around what a 100 years old?
and whys that because there are no documents or knowledge of any ancient forms or early forms of karate the mansters didnt write it down or teach it openly and thats why the styles are not around anymore
and that is why they didnt have names for anything ther ewere no uniforms etc etc
when they tried to introduce karate to japan the okinwans felt inferior to the japs because the japanese were scholary about their native arts and had precise names fo rtheir moves kata and so on and so forth
the okinawans adopted this and began using japanese names

does this help?

[tattooedmonk]

so because you dont know them that makes the person a scam artist lol oh yes i forgot with you comment that if i had any idea who you are i wouldnt call you a fraud

you still havent explained to me who you are and why i should know who you are either dear boy! im curious

and id idnt know your teacher either or judge penn or tat monk whats ya point?Dude you are getting more difficult to understand in every post . and saying phrases like "oh dear" and "oh gawd"is starting to sound a little queer!!!

[tattooedmonk]

look let me put it this way since you guys dont know your arsehole from your elbow about karate


why do you think all the karate styles nowarent that old lok at goju shotokan etc etc they are all around what a 100 years old?
and whys that because there are no documents or knowledge of any ancient forms or early forms of karate the mansters didnt write it down or teach it openly and thats why the styles are not around anymore
and that is why they didnt have names for anything ther ewere no uniforms etc etc
when they tried to introduce karate to japan the okinwans felt inferior to the japs because the japanese were scholary about their native arts and had precise names fo rtheir moves kata and so on and so forth
the okinawans adopted this and began using japanese names

does this help?Dude. what is wrong with you????

[goju]

[QUOTE=Judge Pen;936775]You honestly believe that early okinawan martial arts had no words for the techniques? They didn't call a punch a punch in their native dilect? Come on, your dense but no-one is that dense.

So they called a punch a pucnh and a kick a kick in their native dialect. Then once it was given the Japanese treatment, they started using japanese terms because that made sense to the japanese that were learning the okinawan art. Fine, but a punch is still a punch, you've just changed the language that your using. That's a far cry from saying that there was no terminology.

And you, as a student of goju ryu, use american terms and chinese terms to describe an art that used to use okinawan and japaese words. Because that makes sense to you at this time. Ok, whatever works for you.

I'm sorry, if you don't see the parallels then you must have gotten hit to hard in the head before.
oh dear lord you gusy are as thick as a brick lol
its like trying to tell a dog not to crap o n the carpet and they give you that dumb look lol

no where did i say the okinawans didnt have a language they were just so casula bout there method to teaching they didnt have names for anything you just shut your hole and practiced wha the master physically demonstrated they didnt even have dojos to train at at the start

look at this qote fro dr christian harafouche
"karate originally was a purely unorganized unphilosphical form of self defense"

[goju]

Dude. what is wrong with you????

the fact that you guys cant comphrehend actually i think you can your just trying to excuse your ow bogus use of japanese names with gojus lol

[goju]

I bet Go Ju thinks Doogie Howser was a reaL Dr. YES BEING older does make us smarter than you as we have been aroun longer and experienced more. No matter how you slice it it is still bread. KC
no your skil makes you more knowledgeable kwai and the fact you wont show anything or explain how im supposed to know who you are just shows you dont have any:)

[kwaichang]

Go Ju you are so full of it. 1st there wasnt Karate in Japan prior to 1921 they had a striking art called Uchi waza or striking technique. It was a part of sumotori the ancient wrestling art known as Sumo now. Also the Japanese did not have Kata until Jigoro Kano introduce the art of Judo until then it was based on the samurai arts used in war fare. You really are a joke. Any more Karate talk Boy? KC

[goju]

NO one ever said that. How long have you been doing MA??? The difference between us and you is you may have learned a few things , practiced a few things, but have studied nothing. I have studied practice and learned so has KC as well as the other guys in SD on this thread. Old is a state of mind . and there is nothing that is old about me , I am like good wine I have aged properly and now I taste great!!!

and you say i sound queer lol

[tattooedmonk]

GoJu RYU has been around for 2000 years and is from China from what I read . Since the early 1800s they have been documenting their art. So that is almost two hundred years If you lernedit recently then you would know the names of forms , proper terminolgy etc.

You my friend have no idea what you are talking about. but I am still bored and waiting for the walls to dry in my bathroom!!

[goju]

You dont know who Nishiama Kanazawa or Okazaki are? Howabout Homa or Umemoto 4 time all Japan Kendo Champ. To name a few. You are unlearned arent you ?? KC

i know who they are what does this have to do with anything?
your supposed to know them? aaaaaaaaaaaand?

[tattooedmonk]

the fact that you guys cant comphrehend actually i think you can your just trying to excuse your ow bogus use of japanese names with gojus lolif you werent typing in jiberish and knew what you were talking about then we could comprhend what you are saying. even through the jiberish we still know you are full oh $H!T!

[tattooedmonk]

I sound queer !!!fixed that for ya!!
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOING MA???

[goju]

GoJu RYU has been around for 2000 years and is from China from what I read . Since the early 1800s they have been documenting their art. So that is almost two hundred years If you lernedit recently then you would know the names of forms , proper terminolgy etc.

You my friend have no idea what you are talking about. but I am still bored and waiting for the walls to dry in my bathroom!!

are we speaking two diferrent languages here lol where did i say i dont know them i know all the names of the forms and moves in japanese like the majority of goju guys do

we can go around about when it was actually created but i keep it like this goju as a art was created when choju miyagi founded it and began teaching it to the publi
PARTS of it came from kung fu though not all of it so you cant really say it is from china

[kwaichang]

Quite simply I was a student of theirs 3 are Shotokan trained by Funakoshi 1 is Aikido and one Iaido and Kendo KC

[tattooedmonk]

are we speaking two diferrent languages here lol where did i say i dont know them i know all the names of the forms and moves in japanese like the majority of goju guys do

we can go around about when it was actually created but i keep it like this goju as a art was created when choju miyagi founded it and began teaching it to the publi
PARTS of it came from kung fu though not all of it so you cant really say it is from chinayou are definately speaking a different language than we are!! yours is now known as GOJU JIBERISH

[kwaichang]

Its origins is in Fujien White Crane. Read the book Bubishi Then you can say you know something. KC:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Quite simply I was a student of theirs 3 are Shotokan trained by Funakoshi 1 is Aikido and one Iaido and Kendo KC This is what you get when you study the arts that you were taught and practice goju. You should spend more time studying the art you practice rather than sit here an type a bunch of non-sense and jiberish. Good Job KC!!

[goju]

Quite simply I was a student of theirs 3 are Shotokan trained by Funakoshi 1 is Aikido and one Iaido and Kendo KC

wow arent you special

[goju]

Its origins is in Fujien White Crane. Read the book Bubishi Then you can say you know something. KC:cool:
not just fukien but tiger claw the native okinawan art called te and okinawan wrestling

i think your the one who needs to do some reading up

[tattooedmonk]

Its origins is in Fujien White Crane. Read the book Bubishi Then you can say you know something. KC:cool:I was just reading abut this.The more I study and the more I think I know the more I am finding out that Ihave barely sctched the surface , then again I am only 38. You see goju I learned somthing from you,the internet and KC today!! Now please STFU already

[goju]

This is what you get when you study the arts that you were taught and practice goju. You should spend more time studying the art you practice rather than sit here an type a bunch of non-sense and jiberish. Good Job KC!!

right so because hes says hes studied from them he must be telling the truth lol
yep proved me wrong

[kwaichang]

Prove it cite me a source is it Fu Jao Southern or Black Tiger or Hung Family from the south what Man you are so out classed and dont even realise it KC

[goju]

I was just reading abut this.The more I study and the more I think I know the more I am finding out that Ihave barely sctched the surface , then again I am only 38. You see goju I learned somthing from you,the internet and KC today!! Now please STFU already
kc has nothing to teach the mere fact that he thinks because hes old means he know more automatically ruins anything he has to say
your skill speaks for you not your age

your just oldso what everybody gets there in time woopdee do

[tattooedmonk]

not just fukien but tiger claw the native okinawan art called te and okinawan wrestling

i think your the one who needs to do some reading upWhere did the tiger claw come in?? I have not read that anywhere. Stands to reason that it would have been fused with native arts . quit trying to turn this around . You are getting hit from every direction and there is nothing you can do about.:eek::p:D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

right so because hes says hes studied from them he must be telling the truth lol
yep proved me wrong
whether he did or not is not the point . the fact remains that he a researched and studied!!!

[tattooedmonk]

kc has nothing to teach the mere fact that he thinks because hes old means he know more automatically ruins anything he has to say
your skill speaks for you not your age

your just oldso what everybody gets there in time woopdee dohas nothing to do with being old, it has to do with his time and effort in the arts, learning, practicing, researching and studying , even if he was doing the researching and studying right nowand learning it in this moment he still knows more than you ever will!!

[kwaichang]

read the history of Okinawan Goju and the part of the Bibishi no where does it cite Tiger claw as part of the system, It is now official Go ju is FOS KC

[tattooedmonk]

Prove it cite me a source is it Fu Jao Southern or Black Tiger or Hung Family from the south what Man you are so out classed and dont even realise it KCwere hitting this kid from all angles , and he is so punch drunk that he doesnt even know what is going on!!:)

[tattooedmonk]

read the history of Okinawan Goju and the part of the Bibishi no where does it cite Tiger claw as part of the system, It is now official Go ju is FOS KCThanks , now I know!!!

[goju]

masters magazine
fall 2009
masters: you travelled extensively to china in order to research the orginal training what did you discover?

morio hiagaonna:"i contacted differernt chinese masterswho helped me dig to the roots of the goju ryu system.we all agreed our techniques had evolved from the chinese white crane and tiger styles"



god you guys are so pwned lmao

[goju]

has nothing to do with being old, it has to do with his time and effort in the arts, learning, practicing, researching and studying , even if he was doing the researching and studying right nowand learning it in this moment he still knows more than you ever will!!

how because he says he does he may have studied under that karate master once a week for two months for all i or you know

[goju]

Where did the tiger claw come in?? I have not read that anywhere. Stands to reason that it would have been fused with native arts . quit trying to turn this around . You are getting hit from every direction and there is nothing you can do about.:eek::p:D:cool:
you right it did get infuesd with native style so why would you say it came from china then?
goju ryu came fro okinawa fellas

[tattooedmonk]

masters magazine
fall 2009
masters: you travelled extensively to china in order to research the orginal training what did you discover?

morio hiagaonna:"i contacted differernt chinese masterswho helped me dig to the roots of the goju ryu system.we all agreed our techniques had evolved from the chinese white crane and tiger styles"



god you guys are so pwned lmao Where is this from??? PWND? what the **** does that mean???

[tattooedmonk]

you right it did get infuesd with native style so why would you say it came from china then?
goju ryu came fro okinawa fellasfrom all the sites that I have read from they say that it was a hybrid of chinese white crane and native okinawan arts . I have found nowhere where it says online that it comes from tiger style. NOWHERE You need to state a source that we can all varify or it is an invalid post!! obviously the okinawan arts coundnt have been all that for them to use a chinese art to make up their own new one!!!

[tattooedmonk]

you right it did get infuesd with native style so why would you say it came from china then?
goju ryu came fro okinawa fellasthe art that came from okinawa is goju but the art that came from china that became goju is southern white crane

[goju]

OH MY ****IN GOD!!!!
MORIO HIGAONNA IS CONSIDERED MY MANY TO BE THE LEADING AUTHORITY OF GOJU RYU!!!! BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

but what would he know compared to these "sites" you visited lol

[kwaichang]

Grandmaster Kanryo Higaonna (Higashionna was the original Okinawan pronounciation) was born on March 10, 1853, in Naha, the capital city of Okinawa. His father, Kanyo, worked as a merchant sailing between the small islands of Okinawa trading everyday goods. From a young age Kanryo Higaonna helped his father in this work and through the hard physical labor that was involved he developed a strong body. Kanryo Higaonna was still in his teens when his father died suddenly.

Higaonna began his martial arts training in 1867 in Monk Fist Boxing (Lohan Quan) from Aragaki Seisho. In 1870, at the age of 16, he traveled with his instructor to Fuzhou, China. Once in Fuzhou he studied the Chinese martial arts under the great Master RuRuKo (Xie Zhonh Xiang in Chinese). RuRuKo was the founder of Whooping Crane gongfu and was a student of Pan Yuba who, in turn, was a student of Lin Shixian, a master of White Crane gongfu. Higaonna also received instruction from numerous other gongfu masters including Wai Xinxian. Hiagaonna remained in China for a period of 5-13 years. In addition to studying empty hand and weapon arts, he also became accomplished in herbology and Chinese medicine, including acupuncture.

Chojun Miyagi (founder of Goju-Ryu and successor to Higaonna) said of Higaonna, "My sensei possessed incredible strength; the severity of the training he underwent in China is beyond comprehension.... Kanryo Sensei's speed and power were truly superhuman; his hands and feet moved faster than lightning". Words cannot express his real ability. We can only say that his skill was incredible, but even this fails to do him justice.

In the year 1881, he returned to Okinawa where his martial arts would become known as Naha-te though he always referred to it as chuanfa. Kanryo Higaonna taught these martial arts to the people of Okinawa and at the same time continued his own research and practice. In order to teach the youth of Okinawa he developed a teaching method that was specifically designed to develop the mind and body; to improve both physical well-being.

The first occasion on which the previously secretive art of Naha-te "opened" to society in general, occurred in October 1905, when Higaonna began teaching at the Naha Commercial High School. When teaching, Higaonna was an extremely hard task master. However, in his everyday life he was a quiet and humble man and one who was renowned for his virtuous character. He was a person who had no need or desire for worldly things. He leads a simple life that was devoted to the study and practice of martial arts.

There are many stories that relate tales of Kanryo Higaonna's life and training. The power of his legs was legendary so that often he was referred to as "Ashi no Higaonna", ("legs Higaonna") in Okinawa. His virtuous character was widely known and respected, and because of his popularity the people of Naha bestowed him with the name, Obushi Higaonna Tanmei:, a name which reflected the affection and respect they had for this great man and supreme martial artist.

Kanryo Higaonna's unparalleled skill in the martial arts aside, his great and distinguished work was in bringing the Chinese martial arts from China to Okinawa, and from there spreading these arts among the people of Okinawa.

Kanryo Higaonna is now bestowed with the title "Kensei (sacred fists) Kanryo Higaonna" a title which is eminently fitting. His name is synonymous with Okinawan martial arts and Naha-te, and his spirit is destined to live on forever as a great and valued treasure within Okinawan culture.

Kanryo Higaonna's whole life was devoted to karate. He passed away in December 1915 at the age of 63.
No where does it mention Hu Jao again Goju is FOS all the sources I have found cite this history KC

[tattooedmonk]

is the only place I have found that GoJu Ryu has tiger in it . So for now I still say it doesnt , based on the sheer fact that wiki is often times very wrong!! Name a source or another site because thaat is the only place I found it . I will keep looking though. I know you didnt know anyting about it until you recently( today) googled it

[kwaichang]

Who is Morio ??????? Is that the pizza guy in the game He cant even get the names right. KC

[tattooedmonk]

Who is Morio ??????? Is that the pizza guy in the game He cant even get the names right. KC
LMAO I looked him up he is supposed ly the leading authority on GoJu Ryu However, I have only found that he made connections with the fuzhou wushu association when discovering the roots about the system, not that there is tiger in the system.

[kwaichang]

Dragon Times: Sensei, I would like to ask you about some of the criticisms of yourself and your teacher An'ichi Miyagi. Specifically it is said that An'ichi sensei was only a child when he trained with Chojun Miyagi Sensei, that he learned only part of the system, and that his character is, shall we say, flawed.

Morio Higaonna: If it wasn't so funny this would make me very angry. It's also very ironic. People seem unwilling to accept my word that my teacher is the little known An'ichi Miyagi, but willing to accept the claims of one of my former students that his teacher was Chojun Miyagi the founder of Goju Ryu. This despite the fact that he would have been barely more than an infant when Chojun sensei died. They ignore the truth but accept the ludicrous.

The fact of the matter is very simple. When, full of nervous excitement and with the money my mother had given me clenched in my fist, I first went to the garden dojo of Chojun Miyagi sensei as a boy of sixteen, I was told by Koshin Iha, a student of Chojun Miyagi sensei, "if you want to train seriously An'ichi will teach you." He has taught me ever since; I only have the one teacher.

This explains alot I think, this speaks of Morio Higaonna KC

[Judge Pen]

look let me put it this way since you guys dont know your arsehole from your elbow about karate


why do you think all the karate styles nowarent that old lok at goju shotokan etc etc they are all around what a 100 years old?
and whys that because there are no documents or knowledge of any ancient forms or early forms of karate the mansters didnt write it down or teach it openly and thats why the styles are not around anymore
and that is why they didnt have names for anything ther ewere no uniforms etc etc
when they tried to introduce karate to japan the okinwans felt inferior to the japs because the japanese were scholary about their native arts and had precise names fo rtheir moves kata and so on and so forth
the okinawans adopted this and began using japanese names

does this help?

It's the difference between written history and oral tradition. It doesn't mean that there were not names: they still called it a punch in their language. It has been said that the eskimos had 100 different words for snow, but that's because they are snow masters and understood the fine distinctions. There are several different kinds of punches too--and they each were named in the Oikinawan dilect that was different than the Japanese terms that they have now. They just were not written down. Heck, the probably were not even taught to the Japanese in the same way because the Okinawans didn't want them to know the good stuff.

[tattooedmonk]

isn't san chien kata white crane??? Our san he chien is supposedly the same form, right??

[tattooedmonk]

Dragon Times: Sensei, I would like to ask you about some of the criticisms of yourself and your teacher An'ichi Miyagi. Specifically it is said that An'ichi sensei was only a child when he trained with Chojun Miyagi Sensei, that he learned only part of the system, and that his character is, shall we say, flawed.

Morio Higaonna: If it wasn't so funny this would make me very angry. It's also very ironic. People seem unwilling to accept my word that my teacher is the little known An'ichi Miyagi, but willing to accept the claims of one of my former students that his teacher was Chojun Miyagi the founder of Goju Ryu. This despite the fact that he would have been barely more than an infant when Chojun sensei died. They ignore the truth but accept the ludicrous.

The fact of the matter is very simple. When, full of nervous excitement and with the money my mother had given me clenched in my fist, I first went to the garden dojo of Chojun Miyagi sensei as a boy of sixteen, I was told by Koshin Iha, a student of Chojun Miyagi sensei, "if you want to train seriously An'ichi will teach you." He has taught me ever since; I only have the one teacher.

This explains alot I think, this speaks of Morio Higaonna KC BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!those are some hard hits

[Judge Pen]

I find it interesting that a style such as goju ryu, which is very effective and well established would still have problems with verification as to origins and debate on where certain principals orginated. Also, even the most well-respected founders spoke in hyperbole when it came to their teacher's skill.

[kwaichang]

I am not sure of the origins of San He But they are similar from what I have seen. KC

[One student]

kc has nothing to teach the mere fact that he thinks because hes old means he know more automatically ruins anything he has to say
your skill speaks for you not your age

your just oldso what everybody gets there in time woopdee do

I don't know of any respected tradition that does not teach respect for the elders of society and turn to them for wisdom and experience. Are you not familiar with the title "Grandfather," such as is used in Native American culture? And is there not a similar reverential use in Asian societies? And I'm not talking about my parent's father, either. (If that's too deep for you, go watch the "Billy Jack" movies a few more times). Only an immature child writes off the wisdom of the prior generations just because you haven't seen them perform something better than you can.

NOTE: I am not calling KC, TTM, or anyone else "old." Do not though make the mistake of writing anyone off just because they are old. Heck, if they have been around longer than I have, isn't it more likely I have something to learn from them? I suspect just from reading JP, TTM, KC, BQ, GT, I would benefit from their teachings, and I don't know how old they are. But if I know both how young someone is, and read/hear much ignorance from them, it is difficult to find anything they say worth learning about.

[One student]

any remember there were no names for anything originally the didnt call a hook punch a hook punch they just demonstrated it and you did it. simple as that

So student is in class, and teacher has to demo everything everytime? What about next class, is this what happens?

Teacher: Student, do that thing I showed you last time.

Student: You mean this? (shows).

Teacher: No, that other thing.

Student: Oh, you mean this one (shows it).

Teacher: No, no, that was last week, I mean this one (shows it).

Student: Oh, now I got it.

And so on all class?

Really, at least they had, "paint the fence," or "sand the deck," or "wax on, wax off." You know, code names.

[goju]

Grandmaster Kanryo Higaonna (Higashionna was the original Okinawan pronounciation) was born on March 10, 1853, in Naha, the capital city of Okinawa. His father, Kanyo, worked as a merchant sailing between the small islands of Okinawa trading everyday goods. From a young age Kanryo Higaonna helped his father in this work and through the hard physical labor that was involved he developed a strong body. Kanryo Higaonna was still in his teens when his father died suddenly.

Higaonna began his martial arts training in 1867 in Monk Fist Boxing (Lohan Quan) from Aragaki Seisho. In 1870, at the age of 16, he traveled with his instructor to Fuzhou, China. Once in Fuzhou he studied the Chinese martial arts under the great Master RuRuKo (Xie Zhonh Xiang in Chinese). RuRuKo was the founder of Whooping Crane gongfu and was a student of Pan Yuba who, in turn, was a student of Lin Shixian, a master of White Crane gongfu. Higaonna also received instruction from numerous other gongfu masters including Wai Xinxian. Hiagaonna remained in China for a period of 5-13 years. In addition to studying empty hand and weapon arts, he also became accomplished in herbology and Chinese medicine, including acupuncture.

Chojun Miyagi (founder of Goju-Ryu and successor to Higaonna) said of Higaonna, "My sensei possessed incredible strength; the severity of the training he underwent in China is beyond comprehension.... Kanryo Sensei's speed and power were truly superhuman; his hands and feet moved faster than lightning". Words cannot express his real ability. We can only say that his skill was incredible, but even this fails to do him justice.

In the year 1881, he returned to Okinawa where his martial arts would become known as Naha-te though he always referred to it as chuanfa. Kanryo Higaonna taught these martial arts to the people of Okinawa and at the same time continued his own research and practice. In order to teach the youth of Okinawa he developed a teaching method that was specifically designed to develop the mind and body; to improve both physical well-being.

The first occasion on which the previously secretive art of Naha-te "opened" to society in general, occurred in October 1905, when Higaonna began teaching at the Naha Commercial High School. When teaching, Higaonna was an extremely hard task master. However, in his everyday life he was a quiet and humble man and one who was renowned for his virtuous character. He was a person who had no need or desire for worldly things. He leads a simple life that was devoted to the study and practice of martial arts.

There are many stories that relate tales of Kanryo Higaonna's life and training. The power of his legs was legendary so that often he was referred to as "Ashi no Higaonna", ("legs Higaonna") in Okinawa. His virtuous character was widely known and respected, and because of his popularity the people of Naha bestowed him with the name, Obushi Higaonna Tanmei:, a name which reflected the affection and respect they had for this great man and supreme martial artist.

Kanryo Higaonna's unparalleled skill in the martial arts aside, his great and distinguished work was in bringing the Chinese martial arts from China to Okinawa, and from there spreading these arts among the people of Okinawa.

Kanryo Higaonna is now bestowed with the title "Kensei (sacred fists) Kanryo Higaonna" a title which is eminently fitting. His name is synonymous with Okinawan martial arts and Naha-te, and his spirit is destined to live on forever as a great and valued treasure within Okinawan culture.

Kanryo Higaonna's whole life was devoted to karate. He passed away in December 1915 at the age of 63.
No where does it mention Hu Jao again Goju is FOS all the sources I have found cite this history KC
so let me get this right a site on the internet somehoe knows more than morio? them man studied under miayagi directly and then under his top student lo
but that pproves nothing what does the leading master of goju ryu know compared to some random elderly man whosupposed to studies all these different styles lol

[goju]

is the only place I have found that GoJu Ryu has tiger in it . So for now I still say it doesnt , based on the sheer fact that wiki is often times very wrong!! Name a source or another site because thaat is the only place I found it . I will keep looking though. I know you didnt know anyting about it until you recently( today) googled it
um genius not just wikipedia is unreliable the whole **** internet usually is you even said you had to go look on sites to learn about goju therefore showing that your education on the art is limited and making youe ffort to debate on the topic rediculous

the fact that you could disregard morio higaonnas own words just shows how uneducated you are when it comes to goju

[goju]

Who is Morio ??????? Is that the pizza guy in the game He cant even get the names right. KC

thats his name m o r i o

[goju]

LMAO I looked him up he is supposed ly the leading authority on GoJu Ryu However, I have only found that he made connections with the fuzhou wushu association when discovering the roots about the system, not that there is tiger in the system.

its a direct qoute from the fall 2008 editon of masters magazine i took the exact qoute from the man if you dont believe me buy the back issue and read it for yourself

[goju]

Dragon Times: Sensei, I would like to ask you about some of the criticisms of yourself and your teacher An'ichi Miyagi. Specifically it is said that An'ichi sensei was only a child when he trained with Chojun Miyagi Sensei, that he learned only part of the system, and that his character is, shall we say, flawed.

Morio Higaonna: If it wasn't so funny this would make me very angry. It's also very ironic. People seem unwilling to accept my word that my teacher is the little known An'ichi Miyagi, but willing to accept the claims of one of my former students that his teacher was Chojun Miyagi the founder of Goju Ryu. This despite the fact that he would have been barely more than an infant when Chojun sensei died. They ignore the truth but accept the ludicrous.

The fact of the matter is very simple. When, full of nervous excitement and with the money my mother had given me clenched in my fist, I first went to the garden dojo of Chojun Miyagi sensei as a boy of sixteen, I was told by Koshin Iha, a student of Chojun Miyagi sensei, "if you want to train seriously An'ichi will teach you." He has taught me ever since; I only have the one teacher.

This explains alot I think, this speaks of Morio Higaonna KC?????
again this has to do with .......???

[goju]

It's the difference between written history and oral tradition. It doesn't mean that there were not names: they still called it a punch in their language. It has been said that the eskimos had 100 different words for snow, but that's because they are snow masters and understood the fine distinctions. There are several different kinds of punches too--and they each were named in the Oikinawan dilect that was different than the Japanese terms that they have now. They just were not written down. Heck, the probably were not even taught to the Japanese in the same way because the Okinawans didn't want them to know the good stuff.

dont really know dont realy care of cours ethey had a word for punch but im talking about the specific karate hand strikes that are around today original karate was extremley and i mean EXTREMELY unorganized the th epoint where alot of its probably lost

[goju]

BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!those are some hard hits

they are please explain to me how?

[goju]

I don't know of any respected tradition that does not teach respect for the elders of society and turn to them for wisdom and experience. Are you not familiar with the title "Grandfather," such as is used in Native American culture? And is there not a similar reverential use in Asian societies? And I'm not talking about my parent's father, either. (If that's too deep for you, go watch the "Billy Jack" movies a few more times). Only an immature child writes off the wisdom of the prior generations just because you haven't seen them perform something better than you can.

NOTE: I am not calling KC, TTM, or anyone else "old." Do not though make the mistake of writing anyone off just because they are old. Heck, if they have been around longer than I have, isn't it more likely I have something to learn from them? I suspect just from reading JP, TTM, KC, BQ, GT, I would benefit from their teachings, and I don't know how old they are. But if I know both how young someone is, and read/hear much ignorance from them, it is difficult to find anything they say worth learning about.

what is wrong with you people?serious what planet did you all come from originally lol

im only going to repeat this once more READ CAREFULLY
kwai (and he himself admitted this a page or to ago) think because he is old thats some how this makes him more of an authority on martial arts
however this does no the only thing that makes you knowledgeable about ma is your skill and nothing else

the mere fact that he must use his age just shows he dosnt know what hes talking about
if i wanted to resort to the same childish tactict i could alway say hes old so his opinion dosnt count which i have not. nor have i for supposedly being the arrogant one here claime i could kick people in half or am somehow able to stretch myself beyond the full splits lol

i only respect those who deserve my respect some boy running around on the internet thinking hes entitled to something because he reached a certain age in his life dont get mine

like ive said getting olds not a great acheivement it happens to all of us :)

now please lets stay on topic and let this post be the end of this

[Leto]

isn't san chien kata white crane??? Our san he chien is supposedly the same form, right??

sanchin of goju ryu and uechi ryu is descended from white crane sanzhan.
our san he chien is not exactly the same form, but it has similarities. The closest to our form I've seen is the wuzhu quan/five ancestors fist version, which also shares roots with the southern white crane styles, I believe.

Here are two white crane versions, the uechi ryu and goju ryu versions of sanchin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s

five ancestors version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla9j0AangU

note how the second crane form and the five ancestors have attack sequences at the end similar to our form. The five ancestors hand postures are most similar to ours, I feel.
Also, the characters GM The used for san he chien mean "three harmonies fist", while san zhan means "three battles". What the significance of that is we'll have to guess, but it certainly is a relative of sanchin/sanzhan.

In terms of there being tiger in goju ryu, I did read somwhere that Chojun Miyagi had a Chinese friend or acquaintance on Okinawa who taught a tiger style. I don't remember where or what the name was. This doesn't mean that this fellow's tiger style was a major contributor to goju ryu, but Miyagi did a lot of traveling and studying with different people on Okinawa and in China, on top of his learning from Higashionna. Patrick McCarthy even mentions that he studied at Chin Woo in Shanghai sometime in 1936. What exactly he learned from where and how it influenced the karate he taught, I think no one will ever know. The primary art he taught, and most of the kata, did come from Higashionna.
Now Uechi ryu is a different matter. Although it's main kata are also found in goju ryu, the founder of Uechi ryu said that the style he learned in China was based on the principles of the crane, tiger, and dragon. He supposedly learned from a completely different teacher than Higashionna (and at a much later date). The kata are performed a bit differently, as is seen with the sanchin kata.
So it may not be a solid link such as there is with the white crane teacher that taught Higashionna, I wouldn't say it is impossible that some tiger elements made their way into the naha te kata.
Pretty much all the karate styles, naha te and especially shuri te, don't have any good record of who or where the art came from before it got to Okinawa, except for oral tradition and legend. Shorin ryu/shuri te kata were mostly formed in the late 18th and early 19th century, vs. the naha te/goju ryu which had it's Chinese connection in the later 19th century, so the facts on these styles are slightly more available. A lot of the shuri kata are said to have been taught by random Chinese envoys/bodyguards and stranded sailors whos names are only preserved in the kata name, like "wanshu", "chinto" and "kusanku". So not having information after a certain point is common, no matter what style it is.

There is definately tiger in our style. I have started to wonder if a bit of indigenous silat might have got into our style, too. I used to assume it is just shaolin ditang, but after seeing some silat demonstrations with a lot of low to the ground rolling and kicking ground techniques, I wonder if that's where our brown belt crane forms get their strange mix of southern white crane-style techniques with the sanchin stance and the "broken leg" stance and ground techniques which I always thought were a little strange together.

[goju]

yeah its thought that five ancestor influenced goju and i do honestly beleive silat seeped into karate. as well also there speculation about kururunfa being drawn from the praying mantis tyle

oh it must also be note wing chun was exported into okinawa as well
and their are rumours about miyagi sensei learning paukua and hsingyi

[tattooedmonk]

So student is in class, and teacher has to demo everything everytime? What about next class, is this what happens?

Teacher: Student, do that thing I showed you last time.

Student: You mean this? (shows).

Teacher: No, that other thing.

Student: Oh, you mean this one (shows it).

Teacher: No, no, that was last week, I mean this one (shows it).

Student: Oh, now I got it.

And so on all class?

Really, at least they had, "paint the fence," or "sand the deck," or "wax on, wax off." You know, code names.Exactly!!! LMAO

[tattooedmonk]

sanchin of goju ryu and uechi ryu is descended from white crane sanzhan.
our san he chien is not exactly the same form, but it has similarities. The closest to our form I've seen is the wuzhu quan/five ancestors fist version, which also shares roots with the southern white crane styles, I believe.

Here are two white crane versions, the uechi ryu and goju ryu versions of sanchin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s

five ancestors version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla9j0AangU

note how the second crane form and the five ancestors have attack sequences at the end similar to our form. The five ancestors hand postures are most similar to ours, I feel.
Also, the characters GM The used for san he chien mean "three harmonies fist", while san zhan means "three battles". What the significance of that is we'll have to guess, but it certainly is a relative of sanchin/sanzhan.

In terms of there being tiger in goju ryu, I did read somwhere that Chojun Miyagi had a Chinese friend or acquaintance on Okinawa who taught a tiger style. I don't remember where or what the name was. This doesn't mean that this fellow's tiger style was a major contributor to goju ryu, but Miyagi did a lot of traveling and studying with different people on Okinawa and in China, on top of his learning from Higashionna. Patrick McCarthy even mentions that he studied at Chin Woo in Shanghai sometime in 1936. What exactly he learned from where and how it influenced the karate he taught, I think no one will ever know. The primary art he taught, and most of the kata, did come from Higashionna.
Now Uechi ryu is a different matter. Although it's main kata are also found in goju ryu, the founder of Uechi ryu said that the style he learned in China was based on the principles of the crane, tiger, and dragon. He supposedly learned from a completely different teacher than Higashionna (and at a much later date). The kata are performed a bit differently, as is seen with the sanchin kata.
So it may not be a solid link such as there is with the white crane teacher that taught Higashionna, I wouldn't say it is impossible that some tiger elements made their way into the naha te kata.
Pretty much all the karate styles, naha te and especially shuri te, don't have any good record of who or where the art came from before it got to Okinawa, except for oral tradition and legend. Shorin ryu/shuri te kata were mostly formed in the late 18th and early 19th century, vs. the naha te/goju ryu which had it's Chinese connection in the later 19th century, so the facts on these styles are slightly more available. A lot of the shuri kata are said to have been taught by random Chinese envoys/bodyguards and stranded sailors whos names are only preserved in the kata name, like "wanshu", "chinto" and "kusanku". So not having information after a certain point is common, no matter what style it is.

There is definately tiger in our style. I have started to wonder if a bit of indigenous silat might have got into our style, too. I used to assume it is just shaolin ditang, but after seeing some silat demonstrations with a lot of low to the ground rolling and kicking ground techniques, I wonder if that's where our brown belt crane forms get their strange mix of southern white crane-style techniques with the sanchin stance and the "broken leg" stance and ground techniques which I always thought were a little strange together.Thanks a lot . I appreciate it!!!

[tattooedmonk]

yeah its thought that five ancestor influenced goju and i do honestly beleive silat seeped into karate. as well also there speculation about kururunfa being drawn from the praying mantis tyle

oh it must also be note wing chun was exported into okinawa as well
and their are rumours about miyagi sensei learning paukua and hsingyinprwugbpavpsd;lWEH[ISWDHVUSPKJNS;DLJW[LsafsfnsvdnpsgbpwgupsdvpibbiBibiubPun;lm';LnivYUch BLkj;;mLkm/ml;nbnub

[goju]

Ahehifjofdmvigfhflhpgfhoy-oh-=pp

[kwaichang]

Believe what you want Goju you only limit your own ability to learn that way. I know what I have done and acomplished .
I am not a GOJU stylist and do not claim to be. But I find it interesting that the Founder that I put the article about was Chojun Miyagis teacher who was the founder of GoJU. That is the original source not 2-5 generations removed.
Also.

If you lost what ability you have would you have nothing to offer?? just curious. According to your philosophy you wouldnt. KC

[goju]

Believe what you want Goju you only limit your own ability to learn that way. I know what I have done and acomplished .
I am not a GOJU stylist and do not claim to be. But I find it interesting that the Founder that I put the article about was Chojun Miyagis teacher who was the founder of GoJU. That is the original source not 2-5 generations removed.
Also.

If you lost what ability you have would you have nothing to offer?? just curious. According to your philosophy you wouldnt. KC

um what/ that atricle had nothing to do with anything relevant here


oh bullocks more quotes from kung fu
no if i lost my ability i wouldnt have anything to offer as far as marial arts go how would i/
id just end up sitting on my arse talking about how many people they know or how everybody is supposed to know who iam lol

[Baqualin]

um what/ that atricle had nothing to do with anything relevant here


oh bullocks more quotes from kung fu
no if i lost my ability i wouldnt have anything to offer as far as marial arts go how would i/
id just end up sitting on my arse talking about how many people they know or how everybody is supposed to know who iam lol

You know what's funny:D....Your going to be old someday:)

you know what isn't funny........Your Girlfriend has no idea what she's in for:eek:
BQ

[goju]

i know im going to be old we all are


only difference between me and you guys
is its happening sooner to you!

EVIL KUNG FU MASTER LAUGH! AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

ah shes 31 ill have to deal with her being old not the other way around

[goju]

Oh!!!! You know what else is the difference about me getting old and you guys getting old?






Iiiiiiiiiim always gonna look this good!

Ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
goodnight

[kwaichang]

Goju is there a river where you live called denial? You are probably the biggest Jerk I have run across to dat on the web. So you win. Hopefully your immaturity will decrease as you get older. One last thing in my profession I see many who age prematurely, One day they are strong and healthy and the next moment they are an amputee or have a disc blown in their back. I hope this doesnt happen to you but all it takes is one small stupid accident. I too thought I was immortal until I got injured. YOU ARE NOT> KC

[goju]

let me get this right your the one who cliams for some reason i should know who you are
your the one whos supposed to posess such a high level of martial skill but wont show it
and your the one whos studying a style thats dosnt even begin to make sense


yes but im delusonal kwai keep telling yourelf that and then click your red heels together three times and say there snoplace like hom theres no place like home lol

[Baqualin]

Oh!!!! You know what else is the difference about me getting old and you guys getting old?






Iiiiiiiiiim always gonna look this good!

Ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
goodnight

Your really into yourself:rolleyes:
BQ

[Old Noob]

sanchin of goju ryu and uechi ryu is descended from white crane sanzhan.

Goju: That part was about your style.


our san he chien is not exactly the same form, but it has similarities. The closest to our form I've seen is the wuzhu quan/five ancestors fist version, which also shares roots with the southern white crane styles, I believe.

Goju: That part was about SD


Here are two white crane versions, the uechi ryu and goju ryu versions of sanchin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s

Yours


five ancestors version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla9j0AangU

Similar to ours (SD)


note how the second crane form and the five ancestors have attack sequences at the end similar to our form. The five ancestors hand postures are most similar to ours, I feel.

He's talking about SD's here


There is definately tiger in our style. I have started to wonder if a bit of indigenous silat might have got into our style, too. I used to assume it is just shaolin ditang, but after seeing some silat demonstrations with a lot of low to the ground rolling and kicking ground techniques, I wonder if that's where our brown belt crane forms get their strange mix of southern white crane-style techniques with the sanchin stance and the "broken leg" stance and ground techniques which I always thought were a little strange together.

I'm just breaking it down for you, Goju, because you seem to think that Leto was saying that Goju Ryu had picked up some Silat. He didn't. I'm not going to be critical of your spelling or reading comprehension because I know you believe that's the crutch of folks who don't have a response to your arguments. I'm simply laying it out because your response seems to suggest that you didn't understand that particular post.

Moreover, with regard to your opinions of those older than you, you'd do well to heed the admonishments of OneStudent. I'm not aware of any martial art that doesn't train humility and respect for elders (okay, MMA excluded). Moreover, the masters in your art are old and I doubt that you'd claim that they have nothing to teach you. Certainly, they might be able to show you a little more than you get from the two-man show you've got going in your uncle's basement. Empty your cup just a little Goju. You'd only be better for it.

[Old Noob]

Oh!!!! You know what else is the difference about me getting old and you guys getting old?






Iiiiiiiiiim always gonna look this good!

Ahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
goodnight

Aren't you sporting some kind of mullet in your picture? You're probably right. You'll always look that good.

[Baqualin]

Aren't you sporting some kind of mullet in your picture? You're probably right. You'll always look that good.

In his own mind:)

[tattooedmonk]

let me get this right your the one who cliams for some reason i should know who you are
your the one whos supposed to posess such a high level of martial skill but wont show it
and your the one whos studying a style thats dosnt even begin to make sense


yes but im delusonal kwai keep telling yourelf that and then click your red heels together three times and say there snoplace like hom theres no place like home lol22 year old kid with no respect , no discipline , no honor, a L-I-A-R and T-R-O-L-L ta boot!!!Here we have the future of the United States of America.:rolleyes::eek::confused::mad:

[tattooedmonk]

Goju: That part was about your style.



Goju: That part was about SD



Yours



Similar to ours (SD)



He's talking about SD's here



I'm just breaking it down for you, Goju, because you seem to think that Leto was saying that Goju Ryu had picked up some Silat. He didn't. I'm not going to be critical of your spelling or reading comprehension because I know you believe that's the crutch of folks who don't have a response to your arguments. I'm simply laying it out because your response seems to suggest that you didn't understand that particular post.

Moreover, with regard to your opinions of those older than you, you'd do well to heed the admonishments of OneStudent. I'm not aware of any martial art that doesn't train humility and respect for elders (okay, MMA excluded). Moreover, the masters in your art are old and I doubt that you'd claim that they have nothing to teach you. Certainly, they might be able to show you a little more than you get from the two-man show you've got going in your uncle's basement. Empty your cup just a little Goju. You'd only be better for it. These last few pages of nonsense indicates exactly what this kid is all about and what his future is going to be like, God save us all!!!
I can tell you all I am glad I was born when I was I am the age that I am now because I wouldnt want to be coming of age with douche bags like this around me.

[Old Noob]

These last few pages of nonsense indicates exactly what this kid is all about and what his future is going to be like, God save us all!!!
I can tell you all I am glad I was born when I was I am the age that I am now because I wouldnt want to be coming of age with douche bags like this around me.

I think the DBs have always been around. The internet just provides a medium where they're concentrated. This guy's in Colorado (I think). But for the internet, I'd never have even heard his rants.

I'm trying to decide whether this guy wins the prize or whether that's still held by the bipolar Ng family dude that was banned...Mark something.

[tattooedmonk]

I think the DBs have always been around. The internet just provides a medium where they're concentrated. This guy's in Colorado (I think). But for the internet, I'd never have even heard his rants.

I'm trying to decide whether this guy wins the prize or whether that's still held by the bipolar Ng family dude that was banned...Mark something.I agree. They were cast in the same mold , this one is a younger version of the other.:eek::):D:cool:

[Judge Pen]

dont really know dont realy care of cours ethey had a word for punch but im talking about the specific karate hand strikes that are around today original karate was extremley and i mean EXTREMELY unorganized the th epoint where alot of its probably lost

Don't really care? Congratulations you are a true warrior scholar. :rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

um genius not just wikipedia is unreliable the whole **** internet usually is you even said you had to go look on sites to learn about goju therefore showing that your education on the art is limited and making youe ffort to debate on the topic rediculous

the fact that you could disregard morio higaonnas own words just shows how uneducated you are when it comes to gojuI am the first to admit when I do not know something. Up until yesterday I did not know much about Goju Ryu However , I feel in one day I absorbed more about it than you will ever know.

At least I took the time to research it unlike you.

The source that you posted has his own questionable history.

Your lack of knowledge and continued skirting around the questions that are asked of you and then answering with some lame @$$ response is a red flag as to the type of person you are .

You are a keybpoard warrior,spoiled brat , who still lives at home with mom who has a limited education, knowledge who is searching for something that they will never find , unless that is you are trying to get a better view of your colon.:eek::):D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

its a direct qoute from the fall 2008 editon of masters magazine i took the exact qoute from the man if you dont believe me buy the back issue and read it for yourselfIn your last post you said 2009 now which is it ?? Keep your story straight.

[tattooedmonk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcANYDDOv78

[Judge Pen]

Some of the stances and angles are different and the dynamic tension is less emphasised in our version, but that is the same form no doubt.

[BentMonk]

Does Goju remind anyone else of mkriii or is it just me? :D

[tattooedmonk]

Some of the stances and angles are different and the dynamic tension is less emphasised in our version, but that is the same form no doubt.Thats what I thought , Thanks.

[Old Noob]

Some of the stances and angles are different and the dynamic tension is less emphasised in our version, but that is the same form no doubt.

When is that form taught?

[tattooedmonk]

When is that form taught?3rd black in the west. I have seen it as 2nd in someplaces out eastward.

I just found out that this guy died a few years ago from carbon monoxide poisoning. RIP

[Old Noob]

3rd black in the west. I have seen it as 2nd in someplaces out eastward.

I just found out that this guy died a few years ago from carbon monoxide poisoning. RIP

Gracias! It will be quite some time before I get it.

Carbon monoxide poisoning. Yikes!

[Facepalm]

Some of the stances and angles are different and the dynamic tension is less emphasised in our version, but that is the same form no doubt.


Yea the other week Master David mentioned that our tiger-crane form was one of the central forms of hung gar or something like that. Its nice to hear that he speaks the truth

[tattooedmonk]

Yea the other week Master David mentioned that our tiger-crane form was one of the central forms of hung gar or something like that. Its nice to hear that he speaks the truth The Tiger/Crane forms are a part of Hung Gar and the Tiger/ Crane system. The Tiger / Crane form we do is slightly different . I was told that the one we do came first and then it modified by Hung gar stylist . The creator of this form is supposedly Hong Shi Guan. I might be wrong but this the general concensus.

[tattooedmonk]

Gracias! It will be quite some time before I get it.

Carbon monoxide poisoning. Yikes!De nada!!! I know what a way to go huh??

[Baqualin]

Does Goju remind anyone else of mkriii or is it just me? :D

It's not just you...I was wondering the same thing;)
BQ

[kwaichang]

Yes now that you mention it you are right. Like I said Goju give me 6 more months and this old wanna be or used to be would like a friendly sparring match heck I am over twice your age what will it hurt??? KC

Thanks OTD..

[Judge Pen]

When is that form taught?

Typically 2nd or 3rd black.

[goju]

oh no i errered on the date of the magazine once how dare i lol
even kwai pulled out apiece of that intreview and posted it on here :)


so let me get this right your educated on goju ryu by surfing the internet lol
i mean seriously at this point in time who dosnt know the the majority of inofromation on the web is bogus lol
and what questions have i skirted away from ive answered everything about goju ryu

and my offer still stand any sd people in colorado want to spar let me know and we can meet up:)

yes david knew that tiger an crane was a central part of hung gar wow how knowledgeable lol

[goju]

Don't really care? Congratulations you are a true warrior scholar. :rolleyes:
then whyd you bring it up think trying to throw the track off would save face for you guys lol
you honestly thought id be circle talking my way around sd history like you people have done on here ha!

[goju]

Goju: That part was about your style.



Goju: That part was about SD



Yours



Similar to ours (SD)



He's talking about SD's here



I'm just breaking it down for you, Goju, because you seem to think that Leto was saying that Goju Ryu had picked up some Silat. He didn't. I'm not going to be critical of your spelling or reading comprehension because I know you believe that's the crutch of folks who don't have a response to your arguments. I'm simply laying it out because your response seems to suggest that you didn't understand that particular post.

Moreover, with regard to your opinions of those older than you, you'd do well to heed the admonishments of OneStudent. I'm not aware of any martial art that doesn't train humility and respect for elders (okay, MMA excluded). Moreover, the masters in your art are old and I doubt that you'd claim that they have nothing to teach you. Certainly, they might be able to show you a little more than you get from the two-man show you've got going in your uncle's basement. Empty your cup just a little Goju. You'd only be better for it.
no leto was metioning about silta influencing his tudd and such and i brought up thats its thought silta influenced krate too i knew what he was talking about since he was on the subject i piped in :)

[goju]

22 year old kid with no respect , no discipline , no honor, a L-I-A-R and T-R-O-L-L ta boot!!!Here we have the future of the United States of America.:rolleyes::eek::confused::mad:
really no respect your the ones trying to insult me because of my age you dont see me doing anything of the sort
**** much not teach much respect at sd huh but as i recal david soard stood around bad mouthing most of the masters in kungfu tai chi than training us so i guess it runs in the system

[goju]

Aren't you sporting some kind of mullet in your picture? You're probably right. You'll always look that good.
just because im not a crater face like half you guys postin ghere dont mean you have to say i have a mullet which i dont see where i have long hair i combed back so my face could be seen

[goju]

but i can see how guys like you with your method of thinking cant stand to put in their place by a "kid" lol

[goju]

Yes now that you mention it you are right. Like I said Goju give me 6 more months and this old wanna be or used to be would like a friendly sparring match heck I am over twice your age what will it hurt??? KC

Thanks OTD..

your going to come all the way yo co. to spar lol
oh and a mandatory agree ment i want if any sd wants to spar me is that the sparring match is video taped i dont want a it tooo happen and then to posters running around on here with two differerent stories

bareknuckle kwai no pads anywhere :)full contact

[Old Noob]

really no respect your the ones trying to insult me because of my age you dont see me doing anything of the sort
**** much not teach much respect at sd huh but as i recal david soard stood around bad mouthing most of the masters in kungfu tai chi than training us so i guess it runs in the system

Go back to your very first post on this thread. Completely disrespectful. You're a revisionist historian on stuff that happened barely a week ago.

BTW, if I understand you, didn't you learn everything you know about Goju Ryu from your uncle?

I would definitely describe your do as a mullet. Sorry dude....and crater faces are generally something folks your age are still dealing with so I'm not sure where you're getting that either.

Guys - At least Mkrii was nice about a third of the time when he was on his meds (guilty of engaging in a little speculation about the cause here). This one, not so much.

I do like having you around though. You've brought lots of folks who haven't been on for a while out of the woodwork.

[goju]

Go back to your very first post on this thread. Completely disrespectful. You're a revisionist historian on stuff that happened barely a week ago.

BTW, if I understand you, didn't you learn everything you know about Goju Ryu from your uncle?

I would definitely describe your do as a mullet. Sorry dude....and crater faces are generally something folks your age are still dealing with so I'm not sure where you're getting that either.

Guys - At least Mkrii was nice about a third of the time when he was on his meds (guilty of engaging in a little speculation about the cause here). This one, not so much.

I do like having you around though. You've brought lots of folks who haven't been on for a while out of the woodwork.
i never said to kwai "oh your old what do you know' never did i sink to such stupidity

and yes i did learn it from him why must i repeat what ive said dozens of times?

oh and most important dont expect people to take you seriously when your running around calling yourself a noob lol

[goju]

Go back to your very first post on this thread. Completely disrespectful. You're a revisionist historian on stuff that happened barely a week ago.

BTW, if I understand you, didn't you learn everything you know about Goju Ryu from your uncle?

I would definitely describe your do as a mullet. Sorry dude....and crater faces are generally something folks your age are still dealing with so I'm not sure where you're getting that either.

Guys - At least Mkrii was nice about a third of the time when he was on his meds (guilty of engaging in a little speculation about the cause here). This one, not so much.

I do like having you around though. You've brought lots of folks who haven't been on for a while out of the woodwork.
i know im gone for awhile and you guys are ranting on here for pages lol

[goju]

so whats on the menue today? you guys still gonna try to pull info about goju off the net and say you know more than me and morio higaonna? lol or is it back to sd?

[tattooedmonk]

quote from GoJu (BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLHA)

Dude if I was making fun of you ( like I am now) you would know it.

I was stating the facts based on the info. you gave. But then again maybe I am giving you more credit than you deserve.

Are you not 22-23?? Have you shown that you know nothing about which talk about ?? Have you been disrespectful ?? Have you shown that you are immature and uneducated?? ETC.

The answer to all of these is , YES.

[tattooedmonk]

i never said to kwai "oh your old what do you know' never did i sink to such stupidity

and yes i did learn it from him why must i repeat what ive said dozens of times?

oh and most important dont expect people to take you seriously when your running around calling yourself a noob lolAll you know is how to be a T-R-O-L-L and a L-I-A-R.

[tattooedmonk]

your going to come all the way yo co. to spar lol
oh and a mandatory agree ment i want if any sd wants to spar me is that the sparring match is video taped i dont want a it tooo happen and then to posters running around on here with two differerent stories

bareknuckle kwai no pads anywhere :)full contact Dude , Come to calif , PLEASE . Show me what you got . I got a camera and everything . You come up with half the cash for a plane flight and I will pay the other half!!!I will use just white belt material!!

[goju]

yes i have nothing better to do with my time than fly to california to spar with somebody lol you guys are serious arent you lol

kwais probably runing aroun his llaey chasing achicken and shadow boxing on the bleachers to get ready for me lol

mate you guys are the ones who brought up "crossing hands" not me if your so determined to prove me wrong come on down im in wheatridge colorado :)

[goju]

All you know is how to be a T-R-O-L-L and a L-I-A-R.

does the term broken record mean anything to you?

[goju]

Dude , Come to calif , PLEASE . Show me what you got . I got a camera and everything . You come up with half the cash for a plane flight and I will pay the other half!!!I will use just white belt material!!
lol how do you use just white belt material to spar?

[goju]

does your school have a website. werent you the one who supposedly teaches sd?

[tattooedmonk]

yes i have nothing better to do with my time than fly to california to spar with somebody lol you guys are serious arent you lol

kwais probably runing aroun his llaey chasing achicken and shadow boxing on the bleachers to get ready for me lol

mate you guys are the ones who brought up "crossing hands" not me if your so determined to prove me wrong come on down im in wheatridge colorado :)I am not talking about sparring , BOY. You keep talking the talk now we are giving you the opportunity to walk the walk.

Are you realy in colorado Because you keep saying words like mate and such that woud normally make someone think you were in the UK or something.

If you have time to sit online and talk abunch of $h!T then you should have time to spend on a plane and come to cali to get your @$$ handed to you. You are a Keywoard warrior and nothing else.Congratulations

[tattooedmonk]

lol how do you use just white belt material to spar?easily. Like I said it wont be a sparring match.

[tattooedmonk]

does your school have a website. werent you the one who supposedly teaches sd?Yes. :):eek::D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

does the term broken record mean anything to you?Its not a record it is a CD. I can replay as many times as I want.

[tattooedmonk]

I have to compliment you , the last few posts you made were actually easy to read and comprehend.:D

[One student]

Some of the stances and angles are different and the dynamic tension is less emphasised in our version, but that is the same form no doubt.

Looking at the multiple san he chiens, and then the Tiger/Crane, the similarities are astounding to me, to not come from a common thread somewhere. The San He Chien, not as much, got one has to believe a common ancestor way back. But the Tiger/Crane is amazing, not possibly an accident, not to have come from a common thread, no more than once or twice removed I would think.

Anyone done enough research to know the common source?

[goju]

I am not talking about sparring , BOY. You keep talking the talk now we are giving you the opportunity to walk the walk.

Are you realy in colorado Because you keep saying words like mate and such that woud normally make someone think you were in the UK or something.

If you have time to sit online and talk abunch of $h!T then you should have time to spend on a plane and come to cali to get your @$$ handed to you. You are a Keywoard warrior and nothing else.Congratulations

born in ireland live in colorado
theres a thing called immigration you know lol

oh so you wann fight now lol

[goju]

ipost your website here i wanna see your school

[tattooedmonk]

Looking at the multiple san he chiens, and then the Tiger/Crane, the similarities are astounding to me, to not come from a common thread somewhere. The San He Chien, not as much, got one has to believe a common ancestor way back. But the Tiger/Crane is amazing, not possibly an accident, not to have come from a common thread, no more than once or twice removed I would think.

Anyone done enough research to know the common source?That's the reason why I brought up those forms specifically

[goju]

post your website tat if you wanna come down to colorado ill give you my address :)in a pm

[kwaichang]

I could be in Colorado in November KC
Pads what are those ? I should start rolling 50# or 60# instead of 45. for Iron Bone. That tree I was kicking in the back yard died . Need to buy more rocks to bag up for iron fist, where can I buy a chicken??? Ill need my wind to catch Goju KC

[goju]

novembers fine for me :)

[Old Noob]

oh and most important dont expect people to take you seriously when your running around calling yourself a noob lol

To beat one of your old, tired drums, picking on someone's user name is something people do when they can't refute the substance of their comments. Isn't that your defense when people point out that, though you're in your twenties, you have the reading comprehension and spelling capabilities of my five-year-old? Scratch that. I'm insulting my five-year-old when I say that.

However, since you mentioned it, I chose the name because I had an extended period of time out of the martial arts and am, therefore, new to it again. Furthermore, I think one can study pretty much his entire life and still have much to learn. In that sense, I think most folks are noobs. Finally, I chose it because its humble and a bit self-deprecating. You wouldn't know anything about that.

As for being taken seriously, I have to disagree with you. While I am probably the most junior SD person on this board, I'm here to learn about my art. I know I don't have much to offer, by way of input on our art, to the guys who've been around it for longer than I have, so I offer them my respect. They seem to give it in return and take my questions as serious inquiry rather than mischevious provocations.

You're a child Goju. We're playing with you because we're bored. Your rants are no different than a thousand other hotheads who troll these boards acting like some kind of bad a$$. We've seen you before. We'll see you again. At the end of the day, when your body starts to go and you're an old man like we are, you'll have to look around and see what you have to fall back on. Unless you change things, that will be an illiterate, crotchety old ******* with nobody around who has any interest in taking care of you. Karma is a ***** like that.

Good luck kid.

[OldandUsed]

Amen to that!

[Judge Pen]

so whats on the menue today? you guys still gonna try to pull info about goju off the net and say you know more than me and morio higaonna? lol or is it back to sd?

Goju, I didn't say that I knew more about your art than anyone else. But I did ask some questions that someone who claims to have learned 1/2 of the material would know and you were pretty ignorant. I pointed out the irony in that since you came here to bash SD based, in large part, on historical inconsistencies. Your inability to describe fundamental concepts about your art (when you have not shown you can do so). That makes you a hypocrite. That's not a personal attack its an obervation on the way you have conducted yourself here.

Let me put it this way, this thread is full of people that are as criticial of SD as you are; however, they are not even coming to your aid here--doesn't that say something. Usually the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but no one is really even echoing what you are saying.

I have no problem with people being critical of my art. MK, MonkeySlap/Mas Judt and many others have helped me better understand their arguments because they are well thought out, articulate and logically consistent. They have been just as scathing (more so because of the effectivness of their logic). Your manner of arguing actually weakens your positions and you don't even realize it.

[Judge Pen]

Looking at the multiple san he chiens, and then the Tiger/Crane, the similarities are astounding to me, to not come from a common thread somewhere. The San He Chien, not as much, got one has to believe a common ancestor way back. But the Tiger/Crane is amazing, not possibly an accident, not to have come from a common thread, no more than once or twice removed I would think.

Anyone done enough research to know the common source?

Well that's one of the complaints. Most of the research I have looked at have these forms developing outside of the temples. It's apparent that there is an common source. The critic will say it was copied from a book etc. Another more SD friendly explanation would be that Master Ie or one of the other colleagues learned it and passed it along to Sin and Hiang. For those "old timers" out there, has GM The identified any other teacher who taught him a specific form? All I have heard is that he became Ie's private student and all of his material came from Ie (which begs the question of the materials diversity and number). It would be nice to see where Ie (or one of his colleagues) learned that form as that could help trace it back to a common source.

[OldandUsed]

The only time I recall hearing GMT stating he went outside ICM (and his elder uncles) once he started with them was when he pursued Tai Chi Chien/Pa Kua Chang. I do not recall much of what he said on that one other than he had some physical reactions to the training and went he went to ICM to get help, ICM told him that if he had said he wanted that training, that ICM would have shown him. he then went on to get the training from ICM and did not venture out of the family after that. He was fiarly young at the time.

[Judge Pen]

The only time I recall hearing GMT stating he went outside ICM (and his elder uncles) once he started with them was when he pursued Tai Chi Chien/Pa Kua Chang. I do not recall much of what he said on that one other than he had some physical reactions to the training and went he went to ICM to get help, ICM told him that if he had said he wanted that training, that ICM would have shown him. he then went on to get the training from ICM and did not venture out of the family after that. He was fiarly young at the time.

How about any "elder uncles" that he learned specific material from?

[OldandUsed]

I have heard him and Hiang speak of those associated masters that ICM had with him that followed him to Indonesia. While I have heard them referred to by name a few times, I have to admit that I am absolutely horrible at remembering their names. or their specialities. I do remember them as quite diverse as both brothers spoke of the variety of material available, but cannot remember names. This was over 30 years ago and at the time I just treated it as background and was more worried about performing the material. Sorry.

[Baqualin]

How about any "elder uncles" that he learned specific material from?

Each one had their specialty's.....I have the names and what they mainly taught...will try and find it and get it to you....thought I posted that info on here a while ago.
Also there's only one left and he had a stroke...can't remember his name, but I know he only taught Chen Tai Chi in his latter years.
BQ

[Baqualin]

The only time I recall hearing GMT stating he went outside ICM (and his elder uncles) once he started with them was when he pursued Tai Chi Chien/Pa Kua Chang. I do not recall much of what he said on that one other than he had some physical reactions to the training and went he went to ICM to get help, ICM told him that if he had said he wanted that training, that ICM would have shown him. he then went on to get the training from ICM and did not venture out of the family after that. He was fiarly young at the time.

Supposedly he wanted to learn Pa Kua and went outside the school to another Master...who beat him up....after GMIe found out (he was p!ssed of course), he taught him Pa Kua (as old & used said).....then sometime later, GM Sin went back and beat him up pretty seriously.....supposedly the Master vowed to get revenge someday.....the story as I was told when he first taught us Pa Kua.:cool:
BQ

[OldandUsed]

That sounds very much the way I heard him tell it when we first were shown Pa Kue at Southland dojo.

[Baqualin]

I could be in Colorado in November KC
Pads what are those ? I should start rolling 50# or 60# instead of 45. for Iron Bone. That tree I was kicking in the back yard died . Need to buy more rocks to bag up for iron fist, where can I buy a chicken??? Ill need my wind to catch Goju KC

Make it before Thanksgiving....I will fresh stuffing for my Turkey:D
BQ

[Baqualin]

That sounds very much the way I heard him tell it when we first were shown Pa Kue at Southland dojo.

That's when & where it was.:D
BQ

[Baqualin]

Oh by the way O&U I don't think anyone saw the picture you posted when you first came on here ( the way you attached it)....nice take down shot.....wonder if Cujo would like some of that.

[SDJerry]

The Tiger/Crane forms are a part of Hung Gar and the Tiger/ Crane system. The Tiger / Crane form we do is slightly different . I was told that the one we do came first and then it modified by Hung gar stylist . The creator of this form is supposedly Hong Shi Guan. I might be wrong but this the general concensus.

Tiger Crane is one of the 4 pillars of hung gar which is one of the oldest kungfu styles out there. To my knowledge, this is widely accepted in the TCMA community. I would serisouly question any statement claiming that the SD version came a long first. I know you are just going off what you were told but as a hung gar stylist, I had to say something.

[Baqualin]

Tiger Crane is one of the 4 pillars of hung gar which is one of the oldest kungfu styles out there. To my knowledge, this is widely accepted in the TCMA community. I would serisouly question any statement claiming that the SD version came a long first. I know you are just going off what you were told but as a hung gar stylist, I had to say something.

I don't think anyone was claiming that (except TTM as he was told)....just wondering where the version we're taught fits in the mix....it does seem to be one of the older ones...you would have more insight on this.
BQ

[SDJerry]

I don't think anyone was claiming that (except TTM as he was told)....just wondering where the version we're taught fits in the mix....it does seem to be one of the older ones...you would have more insight on this.
BQ

I know several styles their own interpretation of the tiger crane set so you don't necessarily have to be hung gar to know it.

[brothernumber9]

It is also argued that Hung Xi Kwan was fabricated character, or was known by another name.

[Judge Pen]

It is also argued that Hung Xi Kwan was fabricated character, or was known by another name.

;) Imagine that--a mythical person in a well-known martial art lineage.

[OldandUsed]

Baqualin...

Yes, we do that and other techniques he may find interesting. That particular photo was showing a technique we used regularly at EKU when we were in Model Gym, on campus. That would have first been shown to me around 1970-1971. You can see from the uniforms and patches what our club affiliation was at the time of the photo.

[SDJerry]

;) Imagine that--a mythical person in a well-known martial art lineage.

He's not in our lineage chart to my knowledge.

[tattooedmonk]

Tiger Crane is one of the 4 pillars of hung gar which is one of the oldest kungfu styles out there. To my knowledge, this is widely accepted in the TCMA community. I would serisouly question any statement claiming that the SD version came a long first. I know you are just going off what you were told but as a hung gar stylist, I had to say something. ....... I am new to learning Hung Gar. I was told something and that was about it . I can not say for certain which came first, not that it really matters.

[tattooedmonk]

He's not in our lineage chart to my knowledge. Hong Shi Guan = Hung Xi kwan??

[kwaichang]

Sorry guys I am still chasing that da#$ chicken. KC

[Baqualin]

OK guys here you go....collegues
NAME A.K.A. SPECIALTY
Ie Chang Ming (Tie Chang Sang Ren) Herbs & Accupuncture ,Iron Bone/palm/shin, Staff, Sword (broad & Jian) Daggers Spear Monkey Drunken Immortals, Se Ch’uan (Snake) Tai Chi Pa Kua Hsing Ie Lu Hsing

Liu Su Peng (Sen Pien Sow) Tai Peng (bird System), Chain Whips Rope Dart

Je Jou (Shiao) Fu Long Fist , Huas, Mantis, Tiger

*#Su Te’ Tju Ta (Little Brother) Mien Ch’uan (Cotton Fist), Chi Qong Meditation ,Ban Lian Hua Kuen

Tju Ta 1988 Tai Chi festival in mainland China did Dbl Mulan Fan

**Qui Kwong (Liem Qui Qwong) Herbs & Accupuncture Chin na, Saio Chao
**Tjie Tiong (Djie Tiong) Tai Chi Pa Kua Hsing Ie ,Ground Gragon

[kwaichang]

Thanks Baqualin I love this stuff. Wow KC

[Judge Pen]

Did GM The' learn from all of these teachers?

[kwaichang]

Well I tried to take a pic of me stretching for Go Ju but , I could only get the left front split and a straddle stretch or side stretch of 170 deg . Anywho the pics did not show well so I will try again. KC

[goju]

To beat one of your old, tired drums, picking on someone's user name is something people do when they can't refute the substance of their comments. Isn't that your defense when people point out that, though you're in your twenties, you have the reading comprehension and spelling capabilities of my five-year-old? Scratch that. I'm insulting my five-year-old when I say that.

However, since you mentioned it, I chose the name because I had an extended period of time out of the martial arts and am, therefore, new to it again. Furthermore, I think one can study pretty much his entire life and still have much to learn. In that sense, I think most folks are noobs. Finally, I chose it because its humble and a bit self-deprecating. You wouldn't know anything about that.

As for being taken seriously, I have to disagree with you. While I am probably the most junior SD person on this board, I'm here to learn about my art. I know I don't have much to offer, by way of input on our art, to the guys who've been around it for longer than I have, so I offer them my respect. They seem to give it in return and take my questions as serious inquiry rather than mischevious provocations.

You're a child Goju. We're playing with you because we're bored. Your rants are no different than a thousand other hotheads who troll these boards acting like some kind of bad a$$. We've seen you before. We'll see you again. At the end of the day, when your body starts to go and you're an old man like we are, you'll have to look around and see what you have to fall back on. Unless you change things, that will be an illiterate, crotchety old ******* with nobody around who has any interest in taking care of you. Karma is a ***** like that.

Good luck kid.
to tell you the truth i got about two sentences inot that and said as bullocks to this
just give me the cliff notes

[goju]

Goju, I didn't say that I knew more about your art than anyone else. But I did ask some questions that someone who claims to have learned 1/2 of the material would know and you were pretty ignorant. I pointed out the irony in that since you came here to bash SD based, in large part, on historical inconsistencies. Your inability to describe fundamental concepts about your art (when you have not shown you can do so). That makes you a hypocrite. That's not a personal attack its an obervation on the way you have conducted yourself here.

Let me put it this way, this thread is full of people that are as criticial of SD as you are; however, they are not even coming to your aid here--doesn't that say something. Usually the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but no one is really even echoing what you are saying.

I have no problem with people being critical of my art. MK, MonkeySlap/Mas Judt and many others have helped me better understand their arguments because they are well thought out, articulate and logically consistent. They have been just as scathing (more so because of the effectivness of their logic). Your manner of arguing actually weakens your positions and you don't even realize it.
i answered all the questions that were asked about the system unless ive blacked out here and posted there are none i havent responded too and like you said yourself you know little about goju ryu therefore what could you ask?

you lwere just trying to turn the topic around to take the heat off of the inabilty to explain your styles own bogus history and thought i was going to be the same way about mine
however since goju ryu is a legit style the history and techniques are easy to explain and arent suspect to being made up

something i cant say for sd

[goju]

excuses excuses
runalong the chickens unattended in the alley

[kwaichang]

Hey I caught the chicken now goju can go choke his. KC

[tattooedmonk]

to tell you the truth i got about two sentences inot that and said as bullocks to this
just give me the cliff notesADHD??? If you look through this thread I am sure you can find the WEB address.

[Judge Pen]

to tell you the truth i got about two sentences inot that and said as bullocks to this
just give me the cliff notes

Maybe coloful pictures would help.

[tattooedmonk]

i answered all the questions that were asked about the system unless ive blacked out here and posted there are none i havent responded too and like you said yourself you know little about goju ryu therefore what could you ask?

you lwere just trying to turn the topic around to take the heat off of the inabilty to explain your styles own bogus history and thought i was going to be the same way about mine
however since goju ryu is a legit style the history and techniques are easy to explain and arent suspect to being made up

something i cant say for sdBLAH BLAH BLAH . You have yet to post the name of a hook punch in GOJU RYU and yet you keep going back to your own broken record. The only thing that is "made up" or created is the systems as a whole.( ie the curriculum, progression and order of techniques and forms, etc) All the forms are chinese in origin. No matter what you think about SD you are wrong , period

[One student]

Baqualin...

Yes, we do that and other techniques he may find interesting. That particular photo was showing a technique we used regularly at EKU when we were in Model Gym, on campus. That would have first been shown to me around 1970-1971. You can see from the uniforms and patches what our club affiliation was at the time of the photo.

Old and Used: What are the chances of reposting the pictures you are talking about, or citing us to the page/post where they are originally located?

[goju]

Maybe coloful pictures would help.possibly i mean id rather read kwais post than that lol

[goju]

BLAH BLAH BLAH . You have yet to post the name of a hook punch in GOJU RYU and yet you keep going back to your own broken record. The only thing that is "made up" or created is the systems as a whole.( ie the curriculum, progression and order of techniques and forms, etc) All the forms are chinese in origin. No matter what you think about SD you are wrong , period

i posted what hook punch is called how many pages ago lol

dont try to hard to convince yourself tat youll get hemhroids

[goju]

Oh by the way O&U I don't think anyone saw the picture you posted when you first came on here ( the way you attached it)....nice take down shot.....wonder if Cujo would like some of that.
doubt it the only pictures ive seen form anybody Else on here that impressed me was that guy withe plum flower posts

see if you guys knew a legit style youd move like that lol

[goju]

Oh yeah if you want to pay for my plane trip and lodging ill go to claifornia after im wrapped up with school in june :)