Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[GeneChing]

Note that the closed thread was actually an amalgamate of several merged threads. I was actually planning to unlock it on Monday, but your attitude on this, kwaichang, is making me think otherwise.

tgy - I see several faces in that pic. Which one do you think is mine? :p

[kwaichang]

Perhaps closing it is best so go ahead, no skin off my nose, would decrease the Bad press anyway. This Forum if it is influenced so easily by one person is not a True Democratic Forum anyway, I see it more as U play my game or You cant play.
That is not a true forum. If some one doesnt like the music I play they can listen to another station. But if someone doesnt like what someone wrote close it down. That is Censorship . So go ahead and do it. They Crucified Christ didnt they. If what I say offends you well sorry but I thought a forum was where you could say what you think. If I am Barred then I guess not. KC

[Punch.HeadButt]

This is one of the silliest threads I've ever read.

That's saying a lot :D

[GeneChing]

Wherever did you get that idea?

The word 'forum' doesn't even imply 'democracy'. Our motivations are strictly capitalist. :rolleyes:

[Syn7]

FRANK? you mean, HSKWARRIOR. u don't know a Frank. :eek:



shock value man. shock value. unless one of you really are wearing fish net stockings. :eek:

Those weren't fishnets.

Yeah I know the difference! WHAT?

Fishnets are easier to tear off.

[Jimbo]

How does a closed Shaolin-Do thread compare to Jesus Christ?

[Syn7]

I'm here to make sure Gene has a good weekend.


Thanks MK, you rock.

Was that a brokeback moment?

[Syn7]

17 more to go. That's what makes this so delicious.

Being an arsehole can be deliciously fun! You took much pleasure in that one, I know it.

This is what happened in your head "aw man another fukcing whiner complaint. Oh wait, it's for the shaolin do thread? Under 20? Yeah this will p1ss em all off"

And on that whim, you shut it down.


Come clean, you know it!

I would have waited to 999, but then I'm a bigger arsehole than you are!!! :D


S'all love Gene, please don't ban me :o

[Syn7]

Wherever did you get that idea?

The word 'forum' doesn't even imply 'democracy'. Our motivations are strictly capitalist. :rolleyes:

Benevolent dictatorship is the best system anyways! Democracy is overrated. :eek:

[Syn7]

How does a closed Shaolin-Do thread compare to Jesus Christ?

Clearly Sin The was a prophet!

Recognize!

[Syn7]

So is anyone gonna come clean, man up, and admit they made the complaint?

Come on now, account for yourself!

[kwaichang]

Definition Legal denotes Democracy or Truth


noun pl. forums or fora

1.the public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city or town, where legal and political business was conducted
2.a law court; tribunal
3.
a.an assembly, place, radio program, etc. for the discussion of public matters or current questions
b.an opportunity for open discussion

[Syn7]

Did it mention how many times an army swept thru the FORA and slaughtered those who where saying things the state didn't like?

I don't see the word democracy there?

Yeah a forum is for trading ideas etc, how it's moderated is something else.

[GeneChing]

Being an arsehole can be deliciously fun! You took much pleasure in that one, I know it.

This is what happened in your head "aw man another fukcing whiner complaint. Oh wait, it's for the shaolin do thread? Under 20? Yeah this will p1ss em all off"

And on that whim, you shut it down. If I had a shot of G Spirits (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190426#post1190426), I'd hoist it in toast to you.

Have a great weekend, everyone! For those of you who get Columbus day off, enjoy! For the rest of you, see you back here on Monday and perhaps we'll take the issue of unlocking that thread to a vote. :p

[Syn7]

And I would return that toast and mention titties.


I live in a place called british columbia and we do not get columbus day:(

I vote for more holidays!!!

[Fa Xing]

Benevolent dictatorship is the best system anyways! Democracy is overrated. :eek:

Agreed, at least **** gets done in a benevolent dictatorship!

[Syn7]

dude - what r u trying to do? Gene basically told u that if u KEEP whining he won't re-open the thread - so just STFU already, and pray by Monday AM he forgets your entire diatribe!

:rolleyes:



people seem to forget that this forum is a privately owned enterprise; while we can entreat, cajole or bemuse to get what we want, it's all at the pleasure of your whims because, well, just because! but this is what makes it fun...

It's no different than when you come to my home. Act the way I want you to act or you will be ejected. Or worse. If it's really asked for, I'll give it. Fair has nothing to do with it and justice is given at my leisure.

Why should this be any different?

I get the democracy thing, I tried that too. But I didn't actually believe it, It was just a failed attempt at manipulation. That's the fun part. Behavioral sciences are fun!!!:D

[kwaichang]

Watched Mr Smith Goes to Washington. Interesting Parallel, so I will say no more and hope all will see what is going on here, but remember with out all of us the Forum would not exist, it would be empty and Void. Much like our words , that we think have so much meaning when we say them. KC

[Syn7]

Watched Mr Smith Goes to Washington. Interesting Parallel, so I will say no more and hope all will see what is going on here, but remember with out all of us the Forum would not exist, it would be empty and Void. Much like our words , that we think have so much meaning when we say them. KC

:rolleyes:

Most of us knew from the get go that this was not a democracy. Those who assumed it was a democracy are some "entitled" type cats.


Gene can, and he did. Deal with it. You have no say in the matter. You can only make it worse.

Oh, and the word "forum" does NOT imply democracy. It can be democratic in some ways, like a town hall meeting where a certain amount of people get to have their say. But then this is not a public gov sponsored forum. It's a private forum that ALLOWS you to participate at their discretion, not yours.

[Empty_Cup]

To be honest, I closed it on a whim. And I may re-open it on a whim later. If that bothers you, perhaps you have a misguided idea of what this forum is.

It may surprise you all to learn that I don't actually receive that many formal complaints. We get about one every week or two. And most of them come from the same individual (who is hopefully reading this and now realizes that he's the only person complaining so much). Now, mind you, there are some complaints that are PMed directly to a specific forum mod so I might not see those, although they are usually cc-ed to me.

So I would think it's best to work directly with the specific forum mod. Is there a list somewhere of who mods which forum?

[kwaichang]

Probably is the SD Mod but there have been many c/o him he stirs the pot more than fixing the problem. Then this happens. I guess we all need a babysitter right ? Not KC

[PalmStriker]

So there's no standard?

Seriously, if you get a complaint, why not warn the user who drove the complaint or, better yet, since, as has been discussed on these fora before, we're fairly troll-tolerant here, why not just admonish the complainer to brush up on their keyboard-fu and not be inflamed by trolls?

I'm not crying; I'm asking what makes this not purely arbitrary? Seems to me you close a thread if the thread is, on the whole, offensive or of an unacceptable nature and not because an individual posted something on a thread that illicited a complaint.

There are mods on this board who shamelessly troll and who call people inflamatory names, even noobs who've been here only once or twice. All manner of flame wars go on here. Near porn gets posted here regularly. I'm not complaining about any of it. My complaint is that the shutting down of a thread, which has some good stuff in it despite the reparte of the last couple of days, seems really arbitrary given what goes on here on a day to day basis. If you want to be arbitrary, I guess that's your right as the owner of the board but, if that's not your intent, you should either unlock it or be able to say why, in the case-by-case basis system, the complaint necessitated locking the thread.
That thread sucked big weenie! Should not have been dominating the Real Shaolin TCMA forum for as long as it did. Thank Buddha. :D

[Shǎguā]

I'm the one that complained.

Not enough cowbell.

[RenDaHai]

Hey Gene,

If you do unlock it...

Is there any chance you could move it to another forum, like 'other related arts'. I think it has now been conclusively proved that it is not Shaolin Temple Material. That thread is always at the top of the list, so you know, its kind of mildly, vaguely annoying. It vexes me.

[rett]

Hey Gene,

If you do unlock it...

Is there any chance you could move it to another forum, like 'other related arts'. I think it has now been conclusively proved that it is not Shaolin Temple Material. That thread is always at the top of the list, so you know, its kind of mildly, vaguely annoying. It vexes me.

FWIW I concur. The thread is an eyesore, and has nothing to do with Shaolin IMO.

[David Jamieson]

"shhh, only dreams now"

I seriously lol'd at that. Woke my wife up. :p

That thread had a good run. Always twirling, spinning, whirling into something or other....

[Empty_Cup]

Probably is the SD Mod but there have been many c/o him he stirs the pot more than fixing the problem. Then this happens. I guess we all need a babysitter right ? Not KC

So MK is the Shaolin Kung Fu forum mod?


Hey Gene,

If you do unlock it...

Is there any chance you could move it to another forum, like 'other related arts'. I think it has now been conclusively proved that it is not Shaolin Temple Material. That thread is always at the top of the list, so you know, its kind of mildly, vaguely annoying. It vexes me.

Hate to be a buzzkill, but that's not really an accurate statement. While Sin The' did admit to creating lower belt material himself (including short kata and some longer kata) there is still a lot of material above that rank. What we know for sure is that he learned from GM Ie who was a native of China and claimed to have trained with monks from the temple, including the now infamous hairy monk Su Kong Tai Djinn. With GM Ie and Tai Djinn dead and with the current evidence that's been shared publicly, it's pretty much come down to hearsay on actual ties to the temple. I agree the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, so there is still a lot to establish, but that is a lot different from a statement like "it has now been conclusively proved it [all SD material] is not Shaolin Temple Material." I'm sure a lot of other "true TCMA" out there have tenuous connections to the temple as well.

In any case, put the thread where you will. Those interested in SD will continue to post and discuss. Gene has already established this forum is a benevolent dictatorship, so where he chooses to put the post is representative of his will, not necessarily the will of the people :D

[PalmStriker]

"shhh, only dreams now"

I seriously lol'd at that. Woke my wife up. :p

That thread had a good run. Always twirling, spinning, whirling into something or other.... Like a discombobulated Swirling Dervish Malcontent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2AI8r4q8V8

[Drake]

I love when people get upset over being "mistreated" on a private website, and start crying into the Constitution, like they had just been thrown into a Burmese prison.

Holy hell, I thought KF was a man's art, but some folks here are crying like whiny, snively, sand-in-the-vagina *****es.

Gene could delete this entire forum and replace it with a poorly drawn panda if he wanted. And it likely would have little impact on KFM's sales.

[kwaichang]

Or is it a Dic tator , either way it is still a Dictatorship. i fear that KFM will go the way of BBM {Black belt Mag} and include all that MMA crap. and sell out for the almighty Dollar. Too bad. karate Illustrated, Stars, Mag and many other defunct Mags sold out for that type of stuff instead of staying true to what they are supposed to be True to, The spreading of the word of Kung Fu. So lets see what happens ? also, If this forum is public then that is who should say what is closed or not otherwise you can own what ever you want but without the Public it wont exist Long ? KC

[Empty_Cup]

... I'm sure a lot of other "true TCMA" out there have tenuous connections to the temple as well.

...


like which ones? :confused:

...

Like yours. I didn't want to make this thread about lineage but since you asked directly...I'll illustrate a point.

You trace your lineage through Dino Salvatera and Lau Bun, correct? Well according to this (http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/clf_lineages11-1-11.pdf) that lineage would be: You, D. Salvatera, J. Lang, L. Bun, Y. Hai, Jeung Yim, Chan Hueng.

Jeung Yim apparently has lots of controversy surrounding him. See this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeong_Yim which states, "There are few written or published records verifying Jeong Yim's existence. Most of his history has been passed down orally and subsequently any materials available on him cannot be authenticated."

I'll wait on your response, but I hope you see the point I'm trying to make.

[Lucas]

I always knew you had an evil streak Gene, well on your way to kungfu villaindom!

All hail Gene Ching, grand overlord and protector. His will is law, submit or die.

[Empty_Cup]

...


lmao. Don't trust that. I didn't write that. In fact, the very person who wrote that told me directly he went and spoke to jeung yim's family. What a contradiction huh? L - m - a- o!!!!!!

In the future, anytime you want to know about jeung yim and the fut san hung sing kwoon, contact me or someone that is actually a member of that lineage. :)

oh, there is no controversy over jeung yim's existence. that is the attempt of someone trying to cast doubt. but, his direct lineage is still in existence today, so if you want to know our history, its best to come to the source and not listen to outsiders.

Fair enough, that's why I wanted to get your response. However, can't you see the parallels with the SD debate? The whole attitude against SD has always been, "Until you prove otherwise, the accusation that all is B.S. still stands." If I understand that there are not a lot of official documents, then the same attitude could be taken with Jeung Yim's existence and influence on CLF.

[MasterKiller]

Note that the closed thread was actually an amalgamate of several merged threads. I was actually planning to unlock it on Monday, but your attitude on this, kwaichang, is making me think otherwise.

tgy - I see several faces in that pic. Which one do you think is mine? :p

Leave it locked. That thread served it's purpose.

[MasterKiller]

So I would think it's best to work directly with the specific forum mod. Is there a list somewhere of who mods which forum?

The names of the Moderators are listed at the bottom of each forum. Click the Shaolin thread, look at the bottom right corner. There is the knowledge you seek.

[Empty_Cup]

The names of the Moderators are listed at the bottom of each forum. Click the Shaolin thread, look at the bottom right corner. There is the knowledge you seek.

Helpful, thanks.

[Empty_Cup]

Leave it locked. That thread served it's purpose.

...but then I'd like to see a new thread started called "General Shaolin-Do Discussion."

The "Is SD for Real" mega thread could be held as a sticky so the same arguments aren't re-hashed. But as somebody who practices and is interested in SD, I'd like to have a place for discussion of the style that doesn't instantly get derailed.

Call it b.s. Call it fake. I don't really care. All I ask for is a place to discuss the style and techniques with others who are also interested.

Unless there is new information that becomes public, I also think the "Is SD for Real" mega thread has served its purpose.

[MasterKiller]

OMG. Start a NEW thread. LMAO

I recommend putting it where it belongs. In the Other Related Arts forum.

[IronWeasel]

I recommend putting it where it belongs. In the Other Related Arts forum.



Put it with Lion Dancing and Calligraphy, where it belongs.

[Empty_Cup]

I recommend putting it where it belongs. In the Other Related Arts forum.

As I said before, I have no problem where it gets placed. If it cuts down on the trolling and leads to better discussion without getting derailed then I'd prefer it in the Other Related Arts section.

[Syn7]

So MK is the Shaolin Kung Fu forum mod?



Hate to be a buzzkill, but that's not really an accurate statement. While Sin The' did admit to creating lower belt material himself (including short kata and some longer kata) there is still a lot of material above that rank. What we know for sure is that he learned from GM Ie who was a native of China and claimed to have trained with monks from the temple, including the now infamous hairy monk Su Kong Tai Djinn. With GM Ie and Tai Djinn dead and with the current evidence that's been shared publicly, it's pretty much come down to hearsay on actual ties to the temple. I agree the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, so there is still a lot to establish, but that is a lot different from a statement like "it has now been conclusively proved it [all SD material] is not Shaolin Temple Material." I'm sure a lot of other "true TCMA" out there have tenuous connections to the temple as well.

In any case, put the thread where you will. Those interested in SD will continue to post and discuss. Gene has already established this forum is a benevolent dictatorship, so where he chooses to put the post is representative of his will, not necessarily the will of the people :D

The man lied to you and every other person who came to learn shaolin and yet you still defend him? Did it ever occur to you that he only admitted what he had to admit, being caught red handed? The fact that he has a long history of fraud and the so called connection being basically un-provable tells me that it is most likely a lie as well. His credibility is completely shot. THE MAN LIED TO YOU FOR YOUR MONEY! It's time you people accept that. What is up with the Stockholm attitude? Stop believing what you want to be true and start believing what is probable. At the very least, recognize that anything from that mans mouth is suspect to a high degree.

Benevolent? Those were my words. His goals are monetary, not didactic.

[Syn7]

It also got me thinking a lil more. Riddle me this:

In cma integrity is very important. Those who don't have any, lie and pretend they do. Somebody who lies for years and only admits it when forced has little to no integrity. Considering Ie Chang Ming spent enough time with SKT in order to pass on his style, should he not have noticed SKTs lack of integrity? To me that makes it all suspect. Either Ie Chang Ming did not pass on his style to SKT or he passed his whole lineage over to a fraud. What does that tell you about Ie Chang Ming ability to judge character? Either he has poor judgment or he was lacking integrity himself.

I'm not trying to talk trash about Ie Chang Ming, I'm just sayin..... The math doesn't add up.

[Syn7]

Fair enough, that's why I wanted to get your response. However, can't you see the parallels with the SD debate? The whole attitude against SD has always been, "Until you prove otherwise, the accusation that all is B.S. still stands." If I understand that there are not a lot of official documents, then the same attitude could be taken with Jeung Yim's existence and influence on CLF.

The GM of HSCLF has never openly lied for money and was never caught red handed and forced to admit his shame in court. That is the difference.

One is an oral tradition passed down and has been PROVEN effective as a style and never called out as a liar by legions of historians. The other is questioned, not only because of the major inconsistencies with established history, but also because the GM is an established LIAR. Parallel what?

[bawang]

Holy hell, I thought KF was a man's art, but some folks here are crying like whiny, snively, sand-in-the-vagina *****es.



shaolin do is a transvestite trying to be a real woman. but theres only an empty hole. a blind sack. no babies come out.

[Drake]

If an art is based on lies and a mish-mash of various styles, but you can still kick someone's head off... who cares?

I don't care about lineage or history or any of that. As long as I can rip your arms off and beat you to death with them... mission accomplished.

[bawang]

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i find shaolin do to be very vulgar and obscene.
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h446/Brisketman/a5EFn.gif

[RenDaHai]

Hate to be a buzzkill, but that's not really an accurate statement. While Sin The' did admit to creating lower belt material himself (including short kata and some longer kata) there is still a lot of material above that rank. What we know for sure is that he learned from GM Ie who was a native of China and claimed to have trained with monks from the temple, including the now infamous hairy monk Su Kong Tai Djinn. With GM Ie and Tai Djinn dead and with the current evidence that's been shared publicly, it's pretty much come down to hearsay on actual ties to the temple. I agree the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, so there is still a lot to establish, but that is a lot different from a statement like "it has now been conclusively proved it [all SD material] is not Shaolin Temple Material." I'm sure a lot of other "true TCMA" out there have tenuous connections to the temple as well.


This is the tag line below the forum: This form of boxing from Henan's Shaolin Temple is easily the most famous form of Chinese Kung Fu and has developed into countless styles and variations.

It implies the forum is about SHaolin from the Song Shan Shaolin temple in Henan. THe Hairy monk you speak of has no connection to the Song Shan Temple. He may be connected with some kind of SOuthern Shaolin temple, but the history of those is unknown to me. Either way it is not SOngSHan material. We know about a lot of the stuff from Song Shan, and the stuff we don't know about is pretty easy to see whether it is SongShan or not because of similarities to other song shan forms.

[GeneChing]

I trust you all had a good weekend. Mine was very restful and I caught up on a few chores. Now to the matter at hand...

Hey Gene,

If you do unlock it...

Is there any chance you could move it to another forum, like 'other related arts'. I think it has now been conclusively proved that it is not Shaolin Temple Material. That thread is always at the top of the list, so you know, its kind of mildly, vaguely annoying. It vexes me. You know, if I moved all the so-called 'fake' Shaolin stuff out of the Shaolin forum, that would cut the post count in half. I've always felt that 'fake' Shaolin is as much a part of 'real' Shaolin. To understand nirvana, you must get past delusion.


So MK is the Shaolin Kung Fu forum mod?
I'm the mod there. Obviously. ;)


Gene could delete this entire forum and replace it with a poorly drawn panda if he wanted. And it likely would have little impact on KFM's sales. Well, yes and no. The forum draws a lot of web eyeballs, and that results in all sorts of business. So while it might not directly affect sales of Kung Fu Tai Chi (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html), there is collateral benefits, which is why we keep it.


Benevolent? Those where my words. His goals are monetary, not didactic. Indeed, I would be lying if I said there wasn't an underlying moneymaking intention, but the real question where that money goes. The forum, at minimum, needs to pay for itself. This means rent (which isn't much) and maintenance (which is a little more when you consider that we have several paid staff that work on it). Any profits beyond that funnel back into supporting the print magazine and it's various platforms, and all of that goes towards the support and propagation of Chinese martial arts. It's not like the forum is a big moneymaker (if only...) but every little bit helps.

I still haven't decided what to do about this thread yet. I've going to do my Monday morning chores here first, and then decide around lunch time perhaps. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.

[Shaolindynasty]

I'm confused:confused: tha thread is 983 pages most of which are people saying shaolin do sucks. Why do the shaolin do people still want it open? If there was a 983 page thread about how bad my school sucked I'd be a little depressed:eek:

[GeneChing]

Last Friday, I locked our largest thread Is Shaolin-Do for real? (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32782) because of a complaint. I was intent on unlocking it this week, but in the wake of the locking, two threads have emerged that have given me pause:
Closing an icon (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64567)
Open Discussion on SHAOLIN DO (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64578)

As this lockdown action was accused of being undemocratic in our administration here (not that I took offense as we never claimed to be democratic), for the sake of democracy in this election year, I'm giving this decision over to you all.

Vote now and we will abide by your decision. This poll will close in three days.

[GeneChing]

I still haven't decided what to do about this thread yet. I've going to do my Monday morning chores here first, and then decide around lunch time perhaps. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.
I've decided to let you all decide.

VOTE!

What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64583)

[Vajramusti]

It is not as though SDers are banned... but the thread has become very boringly long.

[Dale Dugas]

waste of bandwith.

I voted to delete it.

[YouKnowWho]

waste of bandwith.

I voted to delete it.

+1 ............

[Jimbo]

+ another one.

[Drake]

Destroy it and urinate on its children!

[SPJ]

the last single of beatles in 1970.

let it be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajCYQL8ouqw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k68_t4yOQSQ

:D

[Sima Rong]

In the interests of a fair and honest benevolent dictatorship, I vote that Gene should get as many votes as he feels like to ensure the best outcome. :D

[PalmStriker]

I voted to keep it locked down where it can be viewed, adored, but not added to, :D , Kinda like stranding the CubeMaster PinHead in outer space in HellRaiser 4 , blasting him into oblivion. Deleting would go way beyond torture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn1ejFz2CHE&feature=related

[Syn7]

Either re-open it or delete it all. Don't keep it locked and stickied.

I vote merge and re-open. It's clearly a popular thread and brings in traffic. KFM gets a lot of hits, why limit that? Who cares what is actually being said, as long as it isn't waaay out of control. And it isn't and hasn't been way out of control.

Passion is a good thing when it comes to making money, recognize!!!

If people don't wanna look at it then don't look at it. But anyone who says "close it and delete it because I'm not interested" is a selfish motherfukcer, str8 up. Many people would think this whole site is a waste of bandwidth. If you don't like it, don't look. It's simple, unless being interpreted by a simpleton, that is.

I realize that staff needs to make whatever decisions are best for their goals. But when it comes to users, we shouldn't be so selfish as to deny another their pleasures simply because you don't agree or want to participate.

For those who are bothered by the SD thread.... RELAX

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pXVpckj7Aqc/T9Zl4bmhpUI/AAAAAAAADF0/S7WC1V-4D6M/s640/there-is-no-need-to-be-upset-lawn-mower.gif

[Scott R. Brown]

I don't know if a poll is really the fairest thing: I mean, for all the killjoys above, the simple solution is if you don't like it, if it bores you, if you think it's a waste of bandwidth, just DON'T READ THE THREAD; I mean, really - does the thread come to your house at 2 AM, knock down your door and take your wife and kids hostage? why can't you let those of us who enjoy it, have it?

at the very least, open it up until it hits 1,000 pages, then lock it down as a warning to other threads that would presume to reach too high...

Don't you have some small woodland animals to eviscerate? :mad:

Wait! Maybe that was me!:confused:
__________________________________________________ __

I agree with this post!

I reason the voice of reason is the only reason reasonable enough to rationally accept as reasonably reasonable enough to be reasonably rational!

[kwaichang]

Because the SD thread is such a negative entity , and with careful deliberation, I find it ironic the most hated MA is the result of excellent marketing thanks in part to all of you. I say Delete it. Gene I was Reactive, but much like playing too many video games and listening to Rap, makes people violent , I responded wrong. So Close it and undo all the Negative of this site. Let themfind another way to Cut SD down. KC

[Vajramusti]

Gene will do what he wants to do.I have no problem with whatever he decides. The SD discussions are all about Sin The's imitations. No where in the forum is there any continuous endless thread about one person and his peddling of superficial imitations of other styles. I don't think that deleting the thread will adversely affect the magazine or the forum.

It is at the point where SD/Sin The related posts is overwhelming discussions pf Shaolin related
kun fu. .

[Old Noob]

Wherever did you get that idea?

The word 'forum' doesn't even imply 'democracy'. Our motivations are strictly capitalist. :rolleyes:

I bet most of the bazillion SD schools have wholesale accounts with Tiger Claw. Just sayin.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We have a Shaolin-do thread ? :confused:

[Old Noob]

...but then I'd like to see a new thread started called "General Shaolin-Do Discussion."

The "Is SD for Real" mega thread could be held as a sticky so the same arguments aren't re-hashed. But as somebody who practices and is interested in SD, I'd like to have a place for discussion of the style that doesn't instantly get derailed.

Call it b.s. Call it fake. I don't really care. All I ask for is a place to discuss the style and techniques with others who are also interested.

Unless there is new information that becomes public, I also think the "Is SD for Real" mega thread has served its purpose.

You could just start this thread. Then we could talk on it until some douchebag non-SD person comes in their flaming, casuing someone to make a complaint, thereby causing that thread to be locked. It would be an interesting couple of hours in any case.

[Old Noob]

Benevolent? Those were my words. His goals are monetary, not didactic.

Are you talking about Sin The or Gene? :D

[MasterKiller]

Keep it locked so that we don't have to spend 11 more years and 1,000 more pages convincing these guys they've been duped.

[David Jamieson]

Prolonged chaos due to denying bad choices is kind of silly.

I mean, you can explain it as many times as you like, but if comprehension is refused, you get 1000 pages of nonsense.

Many people will refuse to believe they were duped and spent 1000's of dollars on an elaborate creation being sold as something else that it can be directly and positively shown to not be that.

weird.

[wenshu]

Locked but stickied so it remains at the top as a monument to martial arts fraud and gullibility.

I'm curious about how much traffic is driven by that thread; a thousand pages over 11 years is a metric ****ton of index.


$cat /var/log/apache2/access.log | grep -i "shaolin do"

[kwaichang]

All of you speak of fraud, Yet you all contribute to the flow of the forum. The issue is not fraud or what ever, Remember the Kung Fu schools picked up after Kwai Chang Caine came on the scene but he was a Dancer. Still improved business. Much like SD promoted the name of Shao Lin whether u like it or not. KC

[GeneChing]

I bet most of the bazillion SD schools have wholesale accounts with Tiger Claw. Just sayin. I wish it were true. We could use the income. Like many of the large martial franchises, SD is of sufficient magnitude to manufacture and import its own gear. As any school owner knows, a fair amount of revenue can come from products, especially brand name products. As any franchise owner knows, selling brand name merchandise is a double bonus. It's like getting someone to pay you to advertise for you.

*****We pause now for this commercial break (http://www.martialartsmart.com/kung-fu-tai-chi-gear.html)*****

So any large franchise martial arts schools will manufacture their brand name products on their own for the most part. Tiger Claw (https://www.tigerclaw.com/home.php) might pick up some peripheral business from some SD schools in supplying accessories that aren't branded (for example, I don't think there's an official SD leg stretcher (http://www.martialartsmart.com/20-60.html)) but it's far from a bazillion.

[GeneChing]

I don't believe in sticky threads. Some of the other mods use that function, but, being democratic ;), I feel that the topmost thread should always be the most active and that there's no need to force it.

Personally, I hope that this poll does not result in the deletion of IS-Dfr. As an archivist, I like to keep the history. The thread stands as a fascinating study in web forum dynamics. And once you get past all the hysterical flame wars, there's some interesting points. Deconstructing that thread could make for a PhD dissertation (in martial forums, if there were such a thing). However, I will abide by the decision of this poll.

I find this whole IS-Dfr situation a rather fascinating study in our community here. The two things that are most striking are:
1. How many have commented vs. how many have voted. GET OUT AND VOTE!
2. That the member who lodged the initial complaint against this thread has remained silent about this IS-Dfr situation. I will keep the identity of that member anonymous, so this is the only clue about their identity.

[Scott R. Brown]

All of you speak of fraud, Yet you all contribute to the flow of the forum. The issue is not fraud or what ever, Remember the Kung Fu schools picked up after Kwai Chang Caine came on the scene but he was a Dancer. Still improved business. Much like SD promoted the name of Shao Lin whether u like it or not. KC

wenshu and you are the only ones who used the word "fraud" in your posts!

How did you get from one guy (wenshu), to "All of you speak of fraud...."?????:rolleyes:

Take your meds AS PRESCRIBED, this is what happens when you think you can do without them!

[Old Noob]

I don't believe in sticky threads. Some of the other mods use that function, but, being democratic ;), I feel that the topmost thread should always be the most active and that there's no need to force it.

Personally, I hope that this poll does not result in the deletion of IS-Dfr. As an archivist, I like to keep the history. The thread stands as a fascinating study in web forum dynamics. And once you get past all the hysterical flame wars, there's some interesting points. Deconstructing that thread could make for a PhD dissertation (in martial forums, if there were such a thing). However, I will abide by the decision of this poll.

I find this whole IS-Dfr situation a rather fascinating study in our community here. The two things that are most striking are:
1. How many have commented vs. how many have voted. GET OUT AND VOTE!
2. That the member who lodged the initial complaint against this thread has remained silent about this IS-Dfr situation. I will keep the identity of that member anonymous, so this is the only clue about their identity.

So the decision to lock the thread was autocratic but the decision to delete if forever will be democratic? Awesome.

Also, as someone who likes archives as a source of information, I can't believe you'd let a poll destroy what has turned into a really good source of information whether you hate SD or not.

Everone on here who is an SD hater talks about how people have been duped. That thread is the number one source of true information about SD. It's the best resource for someone who wants to decide whether or not to do SD. So, even if your an SD hater, you should see the value in that. Delete that thread and the so-called duping is even easier.

But the truth is you guys don't really care about people being duped. You just want to sit around all day flaming and trolling each other. If someone could read that thread and either decide not to be duped or decide to take SD but with open eyes, screw them. As long as you get to flame and troll all day and talk trash, who cares.

[Scott R. Brown]

2. That the member who lodged the initial complaint against this thread has remained silent about this IS-Dfr situation. I will keep the identity of that member anonymous, so this is the only clue about their identity

You mean one of the 22,105 members here is a whiner???

NO!!!! I CAN'T believe it!!!:eek:

NOT HERE OF ALL PLACES!!!!!

I'll bet it is that Dave guy from New York San Da! You can't trust New Yorkers who do San Da!

In fact I thought it was called San Doh!!!!!:eek:

[Old Noob]

I wish it were true. We could use the income. Like many of the large martial franchises, SD is of sufficient magnitude to manufacture and import its own gear. As any school owner knows, a fair amount of revenue can come from products, especially brand name products. As any franchise owner knows, selling brand name merchandise is a double bonus. It's like getting someone to pay you to advertise for you.

*****We pause now for this commercial break (http://www.martialartsmart.com/kung-fu-tai-chi-gear.html)*****

So any large franchise martial arts schools will manufacture their brand name products on their own for the most part. Tiger Claw (https://www.tigerclaw.com/home.php) might pick up some peripheral business from some SD schools in supplying accessories that aren't branded (for example, I don't think there's an official SD leg stretcher (http://www.martialartsmart.com/20-60.html)) but it's far from a bazillion.

I didn't know that. I do know that the broadsword and the Kwan Dao that I bought through my school are Tiger Claw. Hmm.

[Scott R. Brown]

But the truth is you guys don't really care about people being duped. You just want to sit around all day flaming and trolling each other. If someone could read that thread and either decide not to be duped or decide to take SD but with open eyes, screw them. As long as you get to flame and troll all day and talk trash, who cares.

AH HA!!!!

So it's YOU!!!!!!:mad:

[Old Noob]

AH HA!!!!

So it's YOU!!!!!!:mad:

Just saying that I would think all the haters that are arguing for truth in advertising and informed MA training choices should be the biggest lobbyists for the preservation of that thread but they're not. It's because they don't really care about honesty or anything but trolling.

I've been doing SD for about five years now. I've read the whole thread. I think its exhistence is important to MA consumers. Even though I've continued to train in SD, it's been helpful to me in sorting out some parts from others. It's probably helped some people choose not to do it. Where's the downside?

[GeneChing]

Like I said, personally, I would opt to keep the thread. But this whole democratic issue arose and it being an election year, I find this exercise worthy of the experiment.

If you want to save the thread, rally the vote.

[GeneChing]

Where is your uniform from? Weapons are select item buys, sort of like one-offs in a way. Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted that your school is stocked by Tiger Claw. But the bulk of the money in martial arts merch is in uniforms. Tiger Claw has a few big franchise clients, and does supply many SD schools, but most of those bazillion SD schools also buy from other suppliers too, so the impact isn't nearly as significant as some of ther other big accounts.

[Old Noob]

Where is your uniform from? Weapons are select item buys, sort of like one-offs in a way. Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted that your school is stocked by Tiger Claw. But the bulk of the money in martial arts merch is in uniforms. Tiger Claw has a few big franchise clients, and does supply many SD schools, but most of those bazillion SD schools also buy from other suppliers too, so the impact isn't nearly as significant as some of ther other big accounts.

I see. I think the uniforms are largely from Century and Juka.

[Scott R. Brown]

Since I believe everyone is responsible for what they read, no one should complain if they read something they don't like or offends them.

It is very simple: "If you don't like it, DON'T READ IT!!"

We live in a world where too many people want to make other people responsible for their own feelings. There is no cosmic law that says anyone has to agree with anyone else or make each other feel good about themselves, or be liked, etc.

Shaolin Doh exists, many people enjoy it! If some people think others are being defrauded, have your say, but if people want to do it, let them do it in peace.

To me it is like saying Ballet is a fraud!! It is just a dance form that some people enjoy and some people don't. If you don't like ballet don't watch it!

If you don't like Shaolin Doh, don't do it! There is more than enough evidence out there for people to compare different martial styles and decide for themselves what they want to practice.

I do not like creating a false history though and pretending the art has an origin it doesn't truly have. That one is a bit too much for me!

[Old Noob]

Like I said, personally, I would opt to keep the thread. But this whole democratic issue arose and it being an election year, I find this exercise worthy of the experiment.

If you want to save the thread, rally the vote.

It won't happen. There are probably some SDers on this board who'd like to see the thread gone. Couple that with the general forum member around here (the individuals that this democracy will represent) and it's got no chance. The problem is that this form doesn't have a substantial number of people on it who give a crap about legitimate discussion or information preservation. It's much more akin to idiocracy. Just look at the thread itself. It's seven pages of flame wars to every 3 pages of legitimately good information. Nonetheless, given its length, it has over 250 pages of legitimately solid information; either on the system itself or on its techniques and practices.

[Old Noob]

Since I believe everyone is responsible for what they read, no one should complain if they read something they don't like or offends them.

It is very simple: "If you don't like it, DON'T READ IT!!"

We live in a world where too many people want to make other people responsible for their own feelings. There is no cosmic law that says anyone has to agree with anyone else or make each other feel good about themselves, or be liked, etc.

Shaolin Doh exists, many people enjoy it! If some people think others are being defrauded, have your say, but if people want to do it, let them do it in peace.

To me it is like saying Ballet is a fraud!! It is just a dance form that some people enjoy and some people don't. If you don't like ballet don't watch it!

If you don't like Shaolin Doh, don't do it! There is more than enough evidence out there for people to compare different martial styles and decide for themselves what they want to practice.

I do not like creating a false history though and pretending the art has an origin it doesn't truly have. That one is a bit too much for me!

Your position is imminently reasonable.

But the approach around here is, "I don't like it; it offends me; therefore nobody should read it ever."

I'd like to avoid the hyperbole of comparing this thread to the debate of whether we should have a book burning but I'm failing to find a distinction.

[Scott R. Brown]

It won't happen. There are probably some SDers on this board who'd like to see the thread gone. Couple that with the general forum member around here (the individuals that this democracy will represent) and it's got no chance. The problem is that this form doesn't have a substantial number of people on it who give a crap about legitimate discussion or information preservation. It's much more akin to idiocracy. Just look at the thread itself. It's seven pages of flame wars to every 3 pages of legitimately good information. Nonetheless, given its length, it has over 250 pages of legitimately solid information; either on the system itself or on its techniques and practices.

There must be a Shaolin Doh forum somewhere on the internets for people like you who don't like flame wars.

I found a pretty unique way of avoiding posts I don't like, I don't read them!

Give it a try. It works pretty darn good. ;)

[Scott R. Brown]

Your position is imminently reasonable.

But the approach around here is, "I don't like it; it offends me; therefore nobody should read it ever."

I'd like to avoid the hyperbole of comparing this thread to the debate of whether we should have a book burning but I'm failing to find a distinction.

Don't you think Gene is just trying to have some fun here?

In the grand scheme of things any thread is not worth much really. Sure some is very interesting, but none of it is anything people in general can't live without.

Let's not over value something most people consider a pastime and don't take all that seriously.

It is not great literature it is a bunch of guys getting together to waste some time. It isn't much different than hanging out at the pub and arguing about football.

[David Jamieson]

Don't you think Gene is just trying to have some fun here?

In the grand scheme of things any thread is not worth much really. Sure some is very interesting, but none of it is anything people in general can't live without.

Let's not over value something most people consider a pastime and don't take all that seriously.

It is not great literature it is a bunch of guys getting together to waste some time. It isn't much different than hanging out at the pub and arguing about football.

If this is your opinion, why do you feel so strongly about moderators here? :p

[Old Noob]

There must be a Shaolin Doh forum somewhere on the internets for people like you who don't like flame wars.

I found a pretty unique way of avoiding posts I don't like, I don't read them!

Give it a try. It works pretty darn good. ;)

I do. You and I are on the same page in that regard. I'm being critical about all the "destroy the thread" advocates. I, like you, just ignore stuff that I find useless or offensive.

[Scott R. Brown]

I do. You and I are on the same page in that regard. I'm being critical about all the "destroy the thread" advocates. I, like you, just ignore stuff that I find useless or offensive.

Oh I see! I think I misunderstood!;)

[kwaichang]

Brown , you LIe you read my post and commented negatively on it. Almost all on here who dont like SD call GMT a Fraud and the system bogus , heck even if a Sd,er beat u down you would still talk junk about it. The whole idea as to why I came on here is so I could meet other MA and train and be friends, and learn. But to do that most want you to kick their butts 1st. What kind of attitude is that. I agree most on here just want to Troll, end of story. Bunch of babies who want their way Wah Wah. KC:D

[brucereiter]

Like I said, personally, I would opt to keep the thread. But this whole democratic issue arose and it being an election year, I find this exercise worthy of the experiment.

If you want to save the thread, rally the vote.

if you want to compare it to our usa political system that is a republic not a democracy.
i do not think a private forum is a democracy. you can do as you choose in my opinion.
i think the thread should remain open. if people loose interest it will naturally fall off the first page and eventually go away as i have watched other threads do.

some people have made something of value with some parts of shaolin do but in my experience all of them had outside influence to gain their understanding.

[David Jamieson]

threads don't just go away.

They are often raised in a ritual called necrothreading.

This occurs because Gene has this thing about searching for a topic that needs an update and using a 7 year old post to make the update.

Sometimes it happens because someone is out there in internet land searching for some obscure topic about how to develop your knee caps through plyometric kung fu work and voila! A 6 year old reply pops up.

necro! It's a kind of fu....

[kwaichang]

I approached GMT with a Design for a SD uniform 15 years ago and said he should approach TC with my design and require it for all SD schools, it is an awesome design and style. But he wanted everyoneto make their own decisions I told him it would be a good thing to stop the talk of the Karate Uniform thing. KC

[David Jamieson]

yeah, the star trek uniform would probably be more suitable anyway...

[GeneChing]

Thanks for that, kc. Even if it didn't go through, the gesture is appreciated.

[Judge Pen]

Didn't know it was locked. Interesting. What can you share from the nature of the complaint?

The ISDFR thread is the good, bad and ugly about KFO. It deals with a controversial topic that will come up from time to time. People tend to have strong feelings about the topic on way or the other. Locking it or deleting it will not kill the controversey. It will just create a game of "whack a mole" for the mods. The good thing about the tread is a historical record of this debate. Sure it was redundant and pety at times, but a lot of good information was shared. Some eyes were opened. Some information was ferreted out and analyzed in a way that would have never been possible but for a forum like this. For that it's good and I voted to keep it open.

It's Gene's world and we all live in it, but I'm for the market place of ideas (even some that are stupid and pety).

[Judge Pen]

The ISDFR thread is the good, bad and ugly about KFO. It deals with a controversial topic that will come up from time to time. People tend to have strong feelings about the topic on way or the other. Locking it or deleting it will not kill the controversey. It will just create a game of "whack a mole" for the mods. The good thing about the tread is a historical record of this debate. Sure it was redundant and pety at times, but a lot of good information was shared. Some eyes were opened. Some information was ferreted out and analyzed in a way that would have never been possible but for a forum like this. For that it's good and I voted to keep it open.

It's Gene's world and we all live in it, but I'm for the market place of ideas (even some that are stupid and pety).

[brucereiter]

Brown , you LIe you read my post and commented negatively on it. Almost all on here who dont like SD call GMT a Fraud and the system bogus , heck even if a Sd,er beat u down you would still talk junk about it. The whole idea as to why I came on her is so I could meet other MA and train and be friends, and learn. But to do that most want you to kick their butts 1st. What kind of attitude is that. I agree most on here just want to Troll, end of story. Bunch of babies who want their way Wah Wah. KC:D

do you like what sin the has done? do you like being taught something as truth and learning it is a lie. do you believe sin the's stories about where and how he learned his martial arts? specifically his internal martial arts.

sin the personally told me lies about the 24 tai chi form. he said it was a old shaolin form. looked me in the eyes and said that after i asked if it was the same "tai chi 24" form that most people are familiar with. it is just non stop with sin the's bullpoop stories.

if i defend anything about shaolin do it would be many of the individual people who practice it are great people and through their own hard work have made something of the bits and pieces they were taught. i can not defend the top people in the system for what they do. i think they are full of $%*# in regards to internal chinese martial arts specifically.

[kwaichang]

Gees see what im sayin, Star Trek, Geez, The uniform was awesome it was vented with mesh and tie and straight bottoms Draw and elastic waist ,stylish but loose enough to be practical lapel design with Frogs and variable sleeve adjustment. I worked in design and fashion a little while and know how to make it cheap and effective. KC

[brucereiter]

The ISDFR thread is the good, bad and ugly about KFO. It deals with a controversial topic that will come up from time to time. People tend to have strong feelings about the topic on way or the other. Locking it or deleting it will not kill the controversey. It will just create a game of "whack a mole" for the mods. The good thing about the tread is a historical record of this debate. Sure it was redundant and pety at times, but a lot of good information was shared. Some eyes were opened. Some information was ferreted out and analyzed in a way that would have never been possible but for a forum like this. For that it's good and I voted to keep it open.

It's Gene's world and we all live in it, but I'm for the market place of ideas (even some that are stupid and pety).

good thoughts.

[GeneChing]

Don't you think Gene is just trying to have some fun here? Nice comments. And we're all trying to have some fun here, right? Truth is that the forum here is a great big experiment. With the rise of social networking, many believe that web forums are obsolete. But I argue that social networking isn't a searchable database. While I love our fb page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kung-Fu-Tai-Chi-Magazine/135964689362), the forum here is a far more powerful archive. But I digress. The point of this specific experiment is an exercise in forum dynamics. It emerged very organically, like all good forum trends do, and we'll just see where it goes.


if you want to compare it to our usa political system that is a republic not a democracy.
i do not think a private forum is a democracy.
I think the forum here is an anarcho-syndicalist commune. ;)


It will just create a game of "whack a mole" for the mods.

For that it's good and I voted to keep it open.

It's Gene's world and we all live in it, but I'm for the market place of ideas (even some that are stupid and pety). Well said. I love Whack-a-mole. It's my favorite arcade game.

If it were really my world, you'd all be nacho ninjettes.

[GeneChing]

Just don't make mine a red shirt.

Remember Carradine's uniforms for his instructional DVD?
David Carradine - Kung Fu Workout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1SXg41wZ0)
Doesn't get more awesome now, does it?

[kwaichang]

That uniform is a suit , my design is too good for words, all u goobers would love it. KC:)

[David Jamieson]

There was a distinct lack of Carradine nipple in that though. Typically, Carradine Nipple value is High in naked tai chi videos and hose play instructionals.

[David Jamieson]

If it were really my world, you'd all be nacho ninjettes.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HRLPBKX59HA/TtF3dwaVQMI/AAAAAAAAAzw/avMRobzBJ7Y/s1600/YAO-MING-SCARED-HECK-NO-FACE-AFRAID.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is a forum ???

[GeneChing]

Frank, no one is interested in what you guys do during grappling class at your school...

;) I think we're all interested in nacho cheese women's wrasslin. And if this was HSK's school, we would have to demand the school schedule.

[David Jamieson]

Shut Up TGY!! SHUT UP!!!

Frank, that video was awesome. We love you and it. Do you have any more?
Seriously, that was great!

[Empty_Cup]

Shaolin Doh exists, many people enjoy it! If some people think others are being defrauded, have your say, but if people want to do it, let them do it in peace.


The most sensible thing you've said yet. Too bad the intelligent discussion on this thread is always drowned out.

[rett]

Why not give Shaolin Do its own sub-forum?

I find the hairy monk strangely soothing.

[Judge Pen]

Why not give Shaolin Do its own sub-forum?

I find the hairy monk strangely soothing.

That thread was like it's own sub-forum. At one time some SD sites had open forums, but they were shut down for one reason or another. I think Master Garry shut his down because there were some complaints of the parents about some of the content of the adult posts (like Nacho wrestling). Hard to have a wide open forum when a large chunk of your business is through kids classes with overprotective parents.

[rett]

There was definitely something cool about 3:33–3:38

[rett]

Chewbacca doing nacho wrestling. Can't shake the picture now.

[Syn7]

Prolonged chaos due to denying bad choices is kind of silly.

I mean, you can explain it as many times as you like, but if comprehension is refused, you get 1000 pages of nonsense.

Many people will refuse to believe they were duped and spent 1000's of dollars on an elaborate creation being sold as something else that it can be directly and positively shown to not be that.

weird.

Yeah, very weird, but very common!

[Scott R. Brown]

If this is your opinion, why do you feel so strongly about moderators here? :p

Uh that would be YOU, not moderators in general, and only you when you are unfair!

So :p, back at you. I figured you would jump on that. I've had your number for years now! :p:p:p;)

[Scott R. Brown]

The most sensible thing you've said yet. Too bad the intelligent discussion on this thread is always drowned out.

Naw, I have said much more profound things before. You should feel bad you missed out on them all!

I know I feel sorry for you!:p:D

[Syn7]

I don't believe in sticky threads. Some of the other mods use that function, but, being democratic ;), I feel that the topmost thread should always be the most active and that there's no need to force it.

Personally, I hope that this poll does not result in the deletion of IS-Dfr. As an archivist, I like to keep the history. The thread stands as a fascinating study in web forum dynamics. And once you get past all the hysterical flame wars, there's some interesting points. Deconstructing that thread could make for a PhD dissertation (in martial forums, if there were such a thing). However, I will abide by the decision of this poll.

I find this whole IS-Dfr situation a rather fascinating study in our community here. The two things that are most striking are:
1. How many have commented vs. how many have voted. GET OUT AND VOTE!
2. That the member who lodged the initial complaint against this thread has remained silent about this IS-Dfr situation. I will keep the identity of that member anonymous, so this is the only clue about their identity.

I agree.It's interesting on many levels. I love how they refuse to believe the truth, then when they are proven wrong, they take another stance and defend some more.

As for the complainer. Maaaaaad pus$y, nuff said. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's just me, but nothing on KFM can hurt or offend me. If I have no interest, I don't go there. Simple, no?

To want to have something made go away simply because YOU don't like it is the epitome of selfish douchebag.

If it were up to me, no thread would be perma-locked. Maybe some quiet time for the kids who get too excited, but to be re-opened later. Always.

Within reason, of course. If it's illegal then you gotta do what you gotta do. Otherwise it will bury itself if it doesn't have any interest. If it doesn't, that means the people want it.

I think some folks would rather this be a tight knit community of brothers, but that isn't what this site is all about and it isn't gonna happen. If it means that much to somebody they should buy their own board and run it as they see fit. Otherwise STFU pus$y! Deal with it.

[Syn7]

Just saying that I would think all the haters that are arguing for truth in advertising and informed MA training choices should be the biggest lobbyists for the preservation of that thread but they're not. It's because they don't really care about honesty or anything but trolling.

I've been doing SD for about five years now. I've read the whole thread. I think its exhistence is important to MA consumers. Even though I've continued to train in SD, it's been helpful to me in sorting out some parts from others. It's probably helped some people choose not to do it. Where's the downside?

Some of the people here who want it gone would rather have an intellectual circle jerk with their "net pals". They only argue when they're offended.

[Sima Rong]

Just don't make mine a red shirt.

Remember Carradine's uniforms for his instructional DVD?
David Carradine - Kung Fu Workout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1SXg41wZ0)
Doesn't get more awesome now, does it?

Classic! Every time he opened his mouth I stared laughing.

I think the best kind of comedy comes without any effort to be funny at all.

[GeneChing]

It was a big seller. Carradine's Tai Chi Workout was a huge seller as it was advertised in Parade (the Sunday newspaper mag and considered the biggest in the mag industry nowadays). But way back when it was first hitting in the last 90s, I was working with Sifu Lam on his video series, so we decided to watch it as 'research'. We got popcorn even. Now, if any of you know Sifu Lam, he's very easy going and seldom has a bad word to say on anyone else's practice, even when it's horrible. But for that, he was laughing the loudest I've ever heard him laugh at such a thing. We all were. It really is an astounding vid for so many reasons.

[GeneChing]

This is embarrassing as I was trained how to do data collecting surveys in college (it's a psych thing). As it stands, I have four options, but in reality, there are only three. "Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!" and "Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently." are both votes to unlock the thread. In truth, there should be only three options: unlock, keep locked and delete. The two unlock voting options should be merged and the subsequent decision to merge the S-D threads should be a separate issue. And now that HSK has deleted the extraneous 'Open Discussion on SHAOLIN DO' thread, it's somewhat irrelevant.

Oh dear, we've done mucked up the vote. This is the hanging chad of election 2012. :o


Maybe it's just me, but nothing on KFM can hurt or offend me. Now that sounds like a challenge. ;)

[Kellen Bassette]

I just recently started participating on this forum, but have read the archives for years, because so often when I would do a specific search on something Kung Fu related, this forum was the only source of information I could find.

Even today when I do research on some style or form, the best information, (or misinformation, whichever the case), usually comes from this forum...so I think deleting a thread of that size would do a disservice to any future interested, uniformed people.

Besides, some of it's funny.

[Syn7]

Are you talking about Sin The or Gene? :D

LOL, naw I was talking about Gene. But that applies to SKT as well. I think it was more than money for SKT. I think SKT has 'wannabe' factored into his monetary goals. Everyone loves the idea of Shaolin, it's a very good story. I can see why all these frauds attach to that image. Especially when all the movies started coming out. There is a lot of interest there. And we could fill the whole forum with stories of people being taken by frauds saying they are shaolin. Unfortunately these people didn't see the internet coming and had no idea how much info would be available to so many people. Without the net, the lie would be much stronger. Only the real deal would know better. But now anyone can learn these things in a short amount of time.

[Syn7]

leg stretcher (http://www.martialartsmart.com/20-60.html)

I always just used a rope. Works awesome. For me, all the tension is in my knees. The rope is wonderful for that. I can see how you could really hurt yourself being dumb about it tho.


So maybe everyone should just go to www.martialartsmart.com instead :rolleyes::p:D

[Syn7]

I approached GMT with a Design for a SD uniform 15 years ago and said he should approach TC with my design and require it for all SD schools, it is an awesome design and style. But he wanted everyoneto make their own decisions I told him it would be a good thing to stop the talk of the Karate Uniform thing. KC

Can we see?

[kwaichang]

The uniform, has a draw string waist with elastic 2.5 inch waist band. The cuffs have a Velcro 1 inch cuff closure that allows the cuff to be closed or open. there is one pocket in the rear the gusset depending on size of course can be up to 18 inches. The top is crossover block style and the underarms are vented to allow overhead movement w/o the jacket riding up. the top is closed with frog buttons on the side witha angled lapel to the neck with a Mandarin Collar. The sleeves can be zipped or locked in for removal at lower bicep length. Its awesome , there is some detail here but there is a secret to the design that sets it apart ,i wont tellwhat that is. KC

[Syn7]

This is embarrassing as I was trained how to do data collecting surveys in college (it's a psych thing). As it stands, I have four options, but in reality, there are only three. "Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!" and "Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently." are both votes to unlock the thread. In truth, there should be only three options: unlock, keep locked and delete. The two unlock voting options should be merged and the subsequent decision to merge the S-D threads should be a separate issue. And now that HSK has deleted the extraneous 'Open Discussion on SHAOLIN DO' thread, it's somewhat irrelevant.

Oh dear, we've done mucked up the vote. This is the hanging chad of election 2012. :o

Now that sounds like a challenge. ;)

No it's a good thing. Poll results should only be revealed when completed. Merging the two changes the expected results and that changes how people will vote. As much as people want to believe they are unique individuals free from suggestion, they are not. They see their buddies act one way and they conform more often than not. That is why net-enemies are more likely to call out bullsh1t than a friend would.


Hell yeah, bring it on. Just don't start anything you don't intend to finish. ;) One thing I find annoying is when somebody starts a debate then just fukcs off. Other than that, it's all good. :)

[ShaolinDan]

I'm voting to unlock and merge. This forum is an awesome (if muddy) resource for information. If people want to know about Shaolin Do, there's no reason they shouldn't have access to the muddy information in this thread. Besides, people obviously enjoy the thread regardless of what they think of Shaolin Do. But it was fun to see what happened when it got locked. :)

[Scott R. Brown]

This is embarrassing as I was trained how to do data collecting surveys in college (it's a psych thing). As it stands, I have four options, but in reality, there are only three. "Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!" and "Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently." are both votes to unlock the thread. In truth, there should be only three options: unlock, keep locked and delete. The two unlock voting options should be merged and the subsequent decision to merge the S-D threads should be a separate issue. And now that HSK has deleted the extraneous 'Open Discussion on SHAOLIN DO' thread, it's somewhat irrelevant.

Yeah I noticed that right off.

I considered mentioning it, but I am not very good at making substantive posts with thought provoking information or constructive criticism, I am way to humble for that kind of public display of genius!

[Scott R. Brown]

Hell yeah, bring it on. Just don't start anything you don't intend to finish. ;) One thing I find annoying is when somebody starts a debate then just fukcs off.

I firmly disagree with this spurious comment considering that.......uh........you know........well......ummmmmm..........zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

[David Jamieson]

Uh that would be YOU, not moderators in general, and only you when you are unfair!

So :p, back at you. I figured you would jump on that. I've had your number for years now! :p:p:p;)

Unfair? Moi?

Heavy handed at times. Mean to those who are mean, yes. But unfair? I think not. :p

[Scott R. Brown]

Unfair? Moi?

Heavy handed at times. Mean to those who are mean, yes. But unfair? I think not. :p

I was willing to let bygones be bygones, but.......since you appear to want to rehash old disagreements.......

You deleted my thread and then let two other threads that addressed the exact same topic proceed AFTER I threw my hissy fit!!!!

Thus you recognized you were behaving unfairly, and allowed exactly what I chose to discuss to continue on other threads NOT started by me. You were heavy-handed yes, but you were also unfair and either sticking it to me unfairly and got caught or recognized your error of judgment and thus allowed the other two threads to continue.

You just won't admit it, is all!!:p

And you can't say I was disrespectful because I addressed the issue in question at the time in a very appropriate manner!

But don't worry, I forgive you and give you my blessing which should make you feel right as rain and at peace with all peoples!!:p:p:p

[David Jamieson]

I was willing to let bygones be bygones, but.......since you appear to want to rehash old disagreements.......

You deleted my thread and then let two other threads that addressed the exact same topic proceed AFTER I threw my hissy fit!!!!

Thus you recognized you were behaving unfairly, and allowed exactly what I chose to discuss to continue on other threads NOT started by me. You were heavy-handed yes, but you were also unfair and either sticking it to me unfairly and got caught or recognized your error of judgment and thus allowed the other two threads to continue.

You just won't admit it, is all!!:p

And you can't say I was disrespectful because I addressed the issue in question at the time in a very appropriate manner!

But don't worry, I forgive you and give you my blessing which should make you feel right as rain and at peace with all peoples!!:p:p:p


It can't be that memorable for me. I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that comes with the heavy handed. I don't even think about stuff like that. It's either gonna get scrubbed or not and that's that.

Judgement call, on the fly and no, they aren't always gonna be great, but, c'est la vie.

Thanks for your blessing. lol

[Scott R. Brown]

yeah, about that hissy fit you threw - I think I found it in my backyard;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WSgAKoGAZQA/T8-qPSHDbXI/AAAAAAAAAIw/Fj9WtFz7ZlA/s1600/hissy-fit.jpg

next time, please aim somewhere else...

What can I say? I have a good arm!!!:D

[Scott R. Brown]

It can't be that memorable for me. I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that comes with the heavy handed. I don't even think about stuff like that. It's either gonna get scrubbed or not and that's that.

Judgement call, on the fly and no, they aren't always gonna be great, but, c'est la vie.

Thanks for your blessing. lol

You have to quit hitting your own head when you DOH!!! When you use a heavy-hand you end up knocking the good sense right out of there!

Lucky for you the Sturgeon General has found that once a person accepts my blessings they have fewer gray hairs, their garden vegetables grow larger (as well as certain personal body parts) and they score better when playing Canadainian Jeopardy!

You are welcome!:D

[GeneChing]

I just recently started participating on this forum, but have read the archives for years, because so often when I would do a specific search on something Kung Fu related, this forum was the only source of information I could find.

Even today when I do research on some style or form, the best information, (or misinformation, whichever the case), usually comes from this forum...so I think deleting a thread of that size would do a disservice to any future interested, uniformed people.

Besides, some of it's funny. That's very affirming, Kellen, thank you. This is, in my fevered brain, exactly the intention I have always maintained behind this forum - a searchable information archive and a bit of fun. Oh, and some product plugging (http://www.martialartsmart.com/) too. ;)



Yeah I noticed that right off.

I considered mentioning it, but I am not very good at making substantive posts with thought provoking information or constructive criticism, I am way to humble for that kind of public display of genius! Um, yeah, well I do take criticism well. It's a pitfall of my job. I will confess to error. In fact, there's a part of me that delights when a delusion of mine is dispelled. The fallout is this; As it stands at this post, the poll is at:
Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts! ~ 15
Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently. ~ 10
Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished. ~ 4
Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out. ~ 14
Now as presented here, it's been neck-&-neck for option 1 and 4. However, given this polling error, both Unlock options should be merged, which would make it:
Unlock: 25; Delete: 14.
Whatever the case, we'll decide tomorrow.

[Scott R. Brown]

Um, yeah, well I do take criticism well. It's a pitfall of my job. I will confess to error. In fact, there's a part of me that delights when a delusion of mine is dispelled. The fallout is this; As it stands at this post, the poll is at:
Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts! ~ 15
Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently. ~ 10
Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished. ~ 4
Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out. ~ 14
Now as presented here, it's been neck-&-neck for option 1 and 4. However, given this polling error, both Unlock options should be merged, which would make it:
Unlock: 25; Delete: 14.
Whatever the case, we'll decide tomorrow.

It takes a man nearing MY stature to not only recognize his errors, but also publicly admit to them. I wish I knew someone else on this BB, perhaps someone from Canadiland:eek::p, besides you and I, capable of such magnanimital humility!:cool:

[Jimbo]

I hate to admit that, although I voted to delete, I've actually changed my mind. I was feeling a bit cranky the other day. There are a lot of people who enjoy the SD thread, and now IMO it wouldn't be fair to get rid of it. It's not as if there was a lot of offensive crap being spewed (well, other than SD being offensive to some). :). As mentioned, some find it a good resource, and many plain find it entertaining. No one is being forced to read it. I don't read the WC forum, but I would NOT want to see that resource deleted, as many people like and use it as well.

[SPJ]

let it be

let live and live

information and disinformation

are all information.

;)

[kwaichang]

In that case SD is the most Traditional best MA in the world and directly from all 6 of the Shaolin Monasteries. No matter what you say. and SD wears Gis because thay are more like the original outfits worn at the temple and they are cheaper and it was Master Ies way. LOL KC:)

[katmandu]

In the late 1800's, a child was born in Fukien Province, China. The child, born out of wedlock was thought to have been fathered by a demon. He suffered a rare genetic condition known as hyper*****extension, initially the villagers thought the child had been born with three legs, and two feet. He became known as Big Dong Tuhis Chin. Big dong mastered everything known about tongue fu in china. When the temple was attacked with fire, he simply peed on the torches, quickly extinguishing them. Escaping to a brothel in Mongolia, he took along one of the young monks, Eat My Ding. Big Dong taught Eat My everything he knew, but Eat My specialized in the Iron Dong, and Tornado Hand Job techniques. Once, Eat My was walking across China when 108 Manchurian guards attacked him. With his Tornado Hand, and Iron Dong, he left them all lying on the ground, sodomized, and spent. Knowing he would be a wanted man for his skills to the new Prince, Sum Yung Gay, he fled to Indonesia where he married, and became a rich communist leader by selling Iron Dong porn on the black market. He taught his number one grandson, Ching Chang Pay over 10,000 porno techniques he learned from early Panther videos. Ching Chang came to the United States, and using 11 secret herbs and spices made an awesome kool aid that turned otherwise intelligent minds to putty.

[Crushing Step]

Seems legit.

[Syn7]

It can't be that memorable for me. I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that comes with the heavy handed. I don't even think about stuff like that. It's either gonna get scrubbed or not and that's that.

Judgement call, on the fly and no, they aren't always gonna be great, but, c'est la vie.

Thanks for your blessing. lol

So then you admit that it's possible that you were un fair? :D Not on purpose, but as a side effect of your process? Cop to it, son! :p

It's just a Kung Fu forum. Any arbitrary or unfair decision isn't gonna bother anyone for more than the moment. If people do hang on to it, that's on them. If you are angry because of the loss of info, nobody is stopping you from archiving the site on your own.

[Syn7]

That's very affirming, Kellen, thank you. This is, in my fevered brain, exactly the intention I have always maintained behind this forum - a searchable information archive and a bit of fun. Oh, and some product plugging (http://www.martialartsmart.com/) too. ;)


Um, yeah, well I do take criticism well. It's a pitfall of my job. I will confess to error. In fact, there's a part of me that delights when a delusion of mine is dispelled.

Quite often KFM ends up in the top ten google responses in MA related topics. For you, this is a very good thing. It's cumulative and increases exponentially. When you start to get ahead in hits, it really starts to take off from the rest. Know what I mean?


I feel that way too. For me it starts as disappointment but ends in happiness. I see my mistake, get annoyed at myself for missing it, then get all happy that I've recognized and dealt with it. I don't get along as well with people who won't recognize and/or admit their own faults.

[bawang]

college dropout watch david carridine on tv and gets an idea to make money

[Old Noob]

Given that the vote as of yesterday was to decide the issue, shouldn't the thread be unlocked now? Also, the flame war is spilling out all over the forum. Better to contain it by reopening the thread. :D

[GeneChing]

With this and the Giants & A's games, I'll be eagerly awaiting news all day.

[Old Noob]

With this and the Giants & A's games, I'll be eagerly awaiting news all day.

Oh, I thought it was yesterday.

[buddajoe]

This is a reply that is constructive and slightly long-winded and not succinct.
I am sure that some students traded or exchanged and perhaps even sold the five animal set. In this particular case I rather believe that the five animal was taken from my younger uncle’s book. One must understand that the book was not instructional but only informational. The book is full of photographic errors giving readers a slightly skewed view of the set unintentionally. Photographs by their nature are limited and can only show final positions and very little transitional movement. This is a key to understand and master this particular set.
In this day and age many people think that knowledge is available for free. Well go ahead and you will find that your journey will be void of true martial art skill. I must admit that if you practice the five animal set from any source you will feel great because even practicing the shell of the form has its benefits but understand clearly you will never reap the proper benefits of this form without true instruction.
I learned under Jew Sifu and have trained the five animal internal form for many years and can say it is truly a wonder I consider U-Ming to be one of the jewels of the CLF, HUNG SING style originating from Professor Lau Bun.

[GeneChing]

I am unlocking the thread and merging now. That's going to make this thread a little confusing, so for the record, this thread was closed just prior to the Closing an icon (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190582#post1190582) thread was posted. Later, the poll emerged in the What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190960#post1190960) thread. Then both threads wove together like a Qing dynasty queue.

As strange as it sounds, I must salute the IS-Dfr? thread. They have crawled through the gauntlet, and we've all hit them as hard as we could with our belts (http://www.martialartsmart.com/ranking-belts.html). They've earned their place as the fattest thread.

[hskwarrior]

I just got off the phone with my sifu and we both agreed on something in regards to our 5 Animal Form. Lau Bun most likely choy lee Fut-itized this form from its original Northern elements since he was strictly a southern gung fu guy all of his life. Sifu said we don't know what it originally looked like as lau bun was taught it. so over the years if it had any northern flavor it doesn't anymore its CLF now.

we also talked about how Si Mo Yuen was already an elderly woman she may have just walked lau bun through the form. and since lau bun was pro southern style he just practiced it with the same hung sing flavor as his hung sing CLF.

still, people wont' be able to find another form with the exact same sequences from another school or system. the framework of this form is very distinct and even when like jakes videos the form is modified, we can tell where and how.

[tattooedmonk]

This is a reply that is constructive and slightly long-winded and not succinct.
I am sure that some students traded or exchanged and perhaps even sold the five animal set. In this particular case I rather believe that the five animal was taken from my younger uncle’s book. One must understand that the book was not instructional but only informational. The book is full of photographic errors giving readers a slightly skewed view of the set unintentionally. Photographs by their nature are limited and can only show final positions and very little transitional movement. This is a key to understand and master this particular set.
In this day and age many people think that knowledge is available for free. Well go ahead and you will find that your journey will be void of true martial art skill. I must admit that if you practice the five animal set from any source you will feel great because even practicing the shell of the form has its benefits but understand clearly you will never reap the proper benefits of this form without true instruction.
I learned under Jew Sifu and have trained the five animal internal form for many years and can say it is truly a wonder I consider U-Ming to be one of the jewels of the CLF, HUNG SING style originating from Professor Lau Bun.what parts, if any, are correct or incorrect in this.....? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Animals

[PalmStriker]

Now that it's official, I'd like to say, ... uh, what was I going to say? Oh yeah, ... :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVzw8S8IeEA

[tattooedmonk]

.....this is some funny @$$ Sh!t.:eek::D:cool:

[buddajoe]

I have never given a thought about each individual animal nor that type of history. I can say with pride that I have not idea. Those type of studies are best suited for a monastery and not for secular life but people persist and sometimes go through psychotic episodes. Our school has never been monastic in nature. Rather our school believes in results. My sifu always said knowing history will win no battles.(he never understood the internet) U-Ming is taught to develop internal power and physical strength.

[hskwarrior]

empty cup,

from 302 down to 268 so far.

[Empty_Cup]

I have never given a thought about each individual animal nor that type of history. I can say with pride that I have not idea. Those type of studies are best suited for a monastery and not for secular life but people persist and sometimes go through psychotic episodes. Our school has never been monastic in nature. Rather our school believes in results. My sifu always said knowing history will win no battles.(he never understood the internet) U-Ming is taught to develop internal power and physical strength.

Sounds like you're talking about the 5 animal qigong set. Is that correct?

[Empty_Cup]

now that it's official, i'd like to say, ... Uh, what was i going to say? Oh yeah, ... :d http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzw8s8ieea

'merica....

[Empty_Cup]

So in class tonight we went through introductory sparring techniques. I explored ST #2 as a defensive grab/pull into the kick. What application do other SD'ers normally use for #2?

[Syn7]

997??? WHAT? All that crap couldn't get us over the hump?

[tattooedmonk]

So in class tonight we went through introductory sparring techniques. I explored ST #2 as a defensive grab/pull into the kick. What application do other SD'ers normally use for #2?actually that one is probably the best for #2. did you try it in a two person drill?

[Empty_Cup]

actually that one is probably the best for #2. did you try it in a two person drill?

If by drill you mean demonstrating on one of the students, then yes :D

What was really interesting is that when drilling, you end up pulling the shirt/gi so it solves the problem of having legs longer than your arms. Makes the the kicking distance perfect.

[bawang]

i used to wonder why shaolin do would do this. then i realized its the same reason white people attach electrodes to their genitals.

[tattooedmonk]

If by drill you mean demonstrating on one of the students, then yes :D

What was really interesting is that when drilling, you end up pulling the shirt/gi so it solves the problem of having legs longer than your arms. Makes the the kicking distance perfect.Well sort of.... :) I teach and practice like this...you can stand with either right or left side forward, back and forth in a drill formation. So, when draw back to cat stance to kick to trap/grab to punch, then the other person does it...do you understand ?:)

[tattooedmonk]

i used to wonder why shaolin do would do this. then i realized its the same reason white people attach electrodes to their genitals.I dont understand how you can have sex with anime pillows, or say things that are completely useless most of the time , then other times you come up with some profound sh!t...kinda irritating. just saying:eek::cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Sounds like you're talking about the 5 animal qigong set. Is that correct?The form its self is a series of changes from soft to hard , internal to external , slow and fast .It has all the best techniques of the 5 animals system(s)

Its unlike the southen five animals forms that I have seen, that usually go from one animal to the next rather than inter change them.

I have learned the southern five animals/ hungar 5 animals/ five elements forms as well . they are very different.

also the elements / color organ assignment is different, etc.

[hskwarrior]

The form its self is a series of changes from soft to hard , internal to external , slow and fast .It has all the best techniques of the 5 animals system(s)

i love hearing this nonsense. its hella funny. so this is what the set is about huh? the best of the 5 animals system huh?


Its unlike the southen five animals forms that I have seen, that usually go from one animal to the next rather than inter change them.

can we see your demo of this form?


also the elements / color organ assignment is different, etc.

oh, esoterics. nice. LOL

[bawang]

I dont understand how you can have sex with anime pillows, or say things that are completely useless most of the time , then other times you come up with some profound sh!t...kinda irritating. just saying:eek::cool:

i am 100% srs

you know when you wonder why jefferee dhalmers tried to make gay zombie sex slaves then eat them, its the same feeling i have for u guys

[tattooedmonk]

i am 100% srs

you know when you wonder why jefferee dhalmers tried to make gay zombie sex slaves then eat them, its the same feeling i have for u guysThats just queer .... feel sorry for what guys? we are just two people who are talking about a technique . I happen to know it . they happens to know it. you have issue with that , why? just being a troll? or trying to push this to 1000?:eek::D:cool::rolleyes:

[pazman]

inb4 page 1000.


Which is worse, Shaolin Do or USSD?

[shen ku]

HSK you have good tast!!!! wow

[tattooedmonk]

inb4 page 1000.


Which is worse, Shaolin Do or USSD?apples and oranges, its all fruity:p:eek::rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

i love hearing this nonsense. its hella funny. so this is what the set is about huh? the best of the 5 animals system huh?



can we see your demo of this form?



oh, esoterics. nice. LOLuhhh it is the shaolin five animal form...it stands to reason that you wouldnt put the worst techniques, you would put in the best of the animal styles in the form , now wouldnt ya?

maybe you would.:rolleyes:

you could, if I did that sort of thing. I will think about it though.:D

you may or may not follow them, however they are part of the teachings of various schools.

if your school taught these things then you would know that . or you were into that sort of thing , there is more to all this stuff than you might know or think.

you dont, yours doesnt, so what? give it a rest...:rolleyes::cool:

[hskwarrior]

uhhh it is the shaolin five animal form...it stands to reason that you wouldnt put the worst techniques, you would put in the best of the animal styles in the form , now wouldnt ya?

maybe you would.

you could, if I did that sort of thing. I will think about it though.

you may or may not follow them, however they are part of the teachings of various schools.

if your school taught these things then you would know that . or you were into that sort of thing , there is more to all this stuff than you might know or think.

you dont, yours doesnt, so what? give it a rest...

when r u gonna show us a video of you doing this form? whats to hide?

[buddajoe]

All styles have methods you describe. Clearly before you even learn U-Ming you must already understood the difference of hard/soft, fast/slow long/short. That is basic CLF or any genuine martial art. I think you want an intellectual answer and there really isn't any. Oh, practice like hell. That's your real research and your best answer. Or you could like Jake the Flake and be "one with the universe".

[Syn7]

empty cup,

from 302 down to 268 so far.

I am in the process of adding weight. What is your time frame? 302 to 268 in how long? So far I have added about 8 pounds in the last two months. I'm happy with the progress. My natural weight is between 145 and 155. I am trying to add muscle mass, so my workouts and diet are prolly diff than yours but the work is just as hard.

How tall are you?

[tattooedmonk]

All styles have methods you describe. Clearly before you even learn U-Ming you must already understood the difference of hard/soft, fast/slow long/short. That is basic CLF or any genuine martial art. I think you want an intellectual answer and there really isn't any. Oh, practice like hell. That's your real research and your best answer. Or you could like Jake the Flake and be "one with the universe". you see this was my point all along. I was just looking to see if anyone had anything else they could add , they couldn't:eek::cool: . Oh well.:D all I wanted to do is talk to others about the form we share in common, why is that so difficult!?

[hskwarrior]

i am in the process of adding weight. What is your time frame? 302 to 268 in how long? So far i have added about 8 pounds in the last two months. I'm happy with the progress. My natural weight is between 145 and 155. I am trying to add muscle mass, so my workouts and diet are prolly diff than yours but the work is just as hard.

How tall are you?
__________________

i'm not in a huge rush. So since march of this year. I'm 5'7" i know im short. Blame that on my filipino side.

I'm trying to get to about 180/190. Id be happy there.

[hskwarrior]

you see this was my point all along. I was just looking to see if anyone had anything else they could add , they couldn't . Oh well. All i wanted to do is talk to others about the form we share in common, why is that so difficult!?

how we came to share it is the big sketchy issue here. See we learned it from our teachers who learned it from theirs. Your lineage learned it from the book.

Until you show us your form, i highly doubt you know this form. Just sayin. :)

[Sima Rong]

also, USSD and SD both pale in comparison to the greatness that is Ameri Do Te:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hMoA7Q75cg

Wonderful! I didn't know about this at all! :D

[kwaichang]

Ok so we are almost there there have been challenges and arguing and even a real challenge match derived from this Thread. So here is the TRUE story of SD.
Some is made up by GMT based on what he learned in Indonesia, from GM Ie and others associated with him. It has a Karateesk flavor through out due to so much emphasis being placed in the start from the 1-30 Motor memory and Muscle memory etc. U will notice that those who trained in other systems do the Forms different and with different Dynamics. Dependent upon the style they studied.
The forms are of Chinese Origin but the dynamics arent stressed so they appear "wrong". The Uniforms are Cheap and easier to get . But do look more like Shaolin Monk out fits than some I have seen. THere is alot of good peoplein it and some not so good, Morally and skill wise. I trained in it and still do with some exception. I like the Forms where ever they come from a Book, a video or GM Ie. Repetition develops skill , KUng Fu. A man asked me what is best the other day street fighter or a karate guy I said it is the individual not the art. So i ask all take SD people for who they are and themselves not their opinion of the art they study. KC:)

[Old Noob]

How did you hurt your back? Did you get heavy after the injury? Congrats on the hard work and your results.

[Empty_Cup]

how we came to share it is the big sketchy issue here. See we learned it from our teachers who learned it from theirs. Your lineage learned it from the book.

...

Meh. You have no proof whatsoever of that. Just accusation.

[MasterKiller]

Ok so we are almost there there have been challenges and arguing and even a real challenge match derived from this Thread. So here is the TRUE story of SD.
Some is made up by GMT based on what he learned in Indonesia, from GM Ie and others associated with him. It has a Karateesk flavor through out due to so much emphasis being placed in the start from the 1-30 Motor memory and Muscle memory etc. U will notice that those who trained in other systems do the Forms different and with different Dynamics. Dependent upon the style they studied.
The forms are of Chinese Origin but the dynamics arent stressed so they appear "wrong". The Uniforms are Cheap and easier to get . But do look more like Shaolin Monk out fits than some I have seen. THere is alot of good peoplein it and some not so good, Morally and skill wise. I trained in it and still do with some exception. I like the Forms where ever they come from a Book, a video or GM Ie. Repetition develops skill , KUng Fu. A man asked me what is best the other day street fighter or a karate guy I said it is the individual not the art. So i ask all take SD people for who they are and themselves not their opinion of the art they study. KC:)

http://www.abload.de/img/ultracombofinishcnola.gif

[hskwarrior]

Hsk
How did you hurt your back? Did you get heavy after the injury? Congrats on the hard work and your results.

i fell 50 feet breaking my back in 3 places and told that i would never walk again.
thank you sir.

i got heavy cause for one, i ate but couldn't exercise, didn't have the needed strength to. finally more than 20 years later the muscles in my legs were waking up. so since march of this year i have been hitting the gym. i won't lie, it got so bad for my prior to march that i started having trouble and too much pain even just standing for a little bit.

but i'm back on track.


Meh. You have no proof whatsoever of that. Just accusation.

I have more proof to prove my claims than you nor anyone else in Shaolin Do could. you can believe what you want, but the truth is that you guys are practicing our five animal form from Doc Fai Wong's book. You have myself, and now Buddhajoe who learned from one of Lau Bun's best SAYS that you guys have all the ear marks that doc fai wong inserted into the book form. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE AND WE DO.

[tattooedmonk]

Meh. You have no proof whatsoever of that. Just accusation.whats surprising is that everyone but the person that claims this as sole property knows more about than the ones he claims stole it. What's more is he doesn't know any of us at all and yet still keeps making blanket statements about it ,yet has not proof. In addition this person keeps ranting and raving like a lunatic instead talking to us like a reasonable sane adult. He's an elitist and yet isn't elite.:eek::D:cool:

[hskwarrior]

whats surprising is that everyone but the person that claims this as sole property knows more about than the ones he claims stole it. What's more is he doesn't know any of us at all and yet still keeps making blanket statements about it ,yet has not proof. In addition this person keeps ranting and raving like a lunatic instead talking to us like a reasonable sane adult. He's an elitist and yet isn't elite.

see, everyone but you guys know the shaolin 5 animal form as taught to you in shaolin do knows this form belongs to us. There is more than just myself, but buddha joe and a few other people on this forum that know this form because they are also part of my lineage in one way or another.

The fact that you and others from shaolin do hear this and know that sin the wasn't what he claimed to be and yet you are here trying to lay claim to a form that was taken from dfw's book. Its you guys who look horrible for going along with such a fraud as sin the.

Keep practicing our form in that horrible, karate, non kung fu flavor or style you guys do. We will continue to let the world know that shaolin do took our form from dfw's book. Since many have already told you what you need to know and you continue this farce, i can't respect anyone or anything about the kungarate style of shaolin do.

and i highly doubt i ever will. and if you want to come to sf i will tell you to your face.

[Empty_Cup]

I just got off the phone with my sifu and we both agreed on something in regards to our 5 Animal Form. Lau Bun most likely choy lee Fut-itized this form from its original Northern elements since he was strictly a southern gung fu guy all of his life. Sifu said we don't know what it originally looked like as lau bun was taught it. so over the years if it had any northern flavor it doesn't anymore its CLF now.

we also talked about how Si Mo Yuen was already an elderly woman she may have just walked lau bun through the form. and since lau bun was pro southern style he just practiced it with the same hung sing flavor as his hung sing CLF.

still, people wont' be able to find another form with the exact same sequences from another school or system. ...


...
I have more proof to prove my claims than you nor anyone else in Shaolin Do could. you can believe what you want, but the truth is that you guys are practicing our five animal form from Doc Fai Wong's book. You have myself, and now Buddhajoe who learned from one of Lau Bun's best SAYS that you guys have all the ear marks that doc fai wong inserted into the book form. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE AND WE DO.

Here's the problem with your argument: You said before that you don't know what the form looked like as originally given to Lau Bun. And that the original transmission may have been only verbally from Si Mo Yuen. Then as you said the form may have been "choy li fut-ized" further by Lau Bun.

So, combine this with the fact that it was supposedly transmitted through Shaolin and it explains how others could have this form. It also gives a lot less credence to your argument that there is only one "right" way to do the form and that other variations are somehow less effective.

The counterpoint as you mention is that if every other practitioner is performing the form with DFW "earmarks" and only your group performs them without, then that would make sense. But, as I understand it, there are other folks out there who do not do the form the same way, so that argument also goes out the window.

[MasterKiller]

MK did you see the video on that uppercut i posted on facebook?
one helluva an uppercut.. I don't use FaceBook, but I've seen the whole video.

[Empty_Cup]

...
shaolin do is a lineage with thieves and liars. they get no respect from me.

Every time you post on this thread you're giving SD respect. And, btw, I don't think you're really giving a good name to your own lineage with the hateful posts.

Most of the SD'ers on this thread have responded to the constant attacks with poise and reserve, many of them for years. Heck, even the mods join in most times. So hold your blanket accusations and statements that claim all SD practitioners are the scum of the earth.

[hskwarrior]

here's the problem with your argument: You said before that you don't know what the form looked like as originally given to lau bun. And that the original transmission may have been only verbally from si mo yuen. Then as you said the form may have been "choy li fut-ized" further by lau bun.

So, combine this with the fact that it was supposedly transmitted through shaolin and it explains how others could have this form. It also gives a lot less credence to your argument that there is only one "right" way to do the form and that other variations are somehow less effective.

The counterpoint as you mention is that if every other practitioner is performing the form with dfw "earmarks" and only your group performs them without, then that would make sense. But, as i understand it, there are other folks out there who do not do the form the same way, so that argument also goes out the window.

see, the problem here is you guys are practicing a form taken from doc fai wong's book which is filled with ear marks unbeknownst to you, jake the fake, and sin the. EVERY SINGLE STUDENT OF HUNG SING USA THAT KNOWS THIS FORM CAN ALSO POINT OUT TO YOU AND SIN THE WHERE AND WHAT THOSE EARMARKS ARE. In one way its safe to say you got duped all the way around by shaolin do.

There are zero words you can say to ever change the fact that shaolin do is practicing our form that came from a book. A non instructional book at that. That explains why jake does the form like a gay ballerina.

Just because we the owners of this form don't know what it looked like around the turn of the 20th century doesn't mean its ok for your lineage to steal our form. How would you guys feel if we came out and told you lau bun created that form and that is the reason why you will never find it anywhere else in this world.? How would you feel then? Its hella funny to hear people trying to hold on to a form that was never theirs to begin with.

Shaolin do is not a traditional system. It was created by sin the and the material taught is all from seminars, videos and books. The whole entire martial arts community knows this about your lineage and its only you guys who are completely fooled by sin the.

[hskwarrior]

here's the problem with your argument: You said before that you don't know what the form looked like as originally given to lau bun. And that the original transmission may have been only verbally from si mo yuen. Then as you said the form may have been "choy li fut-ized" further by lau bun.

i never said lau bun learned it verbally from si mo yuen, where the fak did you get that from?


then as you said the form may have been "choy li fut-ized" further by lau bun.

the form was choy lee fut-tized. Still doesn't make it right that your lineage stole it from us now does it?


so, combine this with the fact that it was supposedly transmitted through shaolin and it explains how others could have this form.

no, its only you guys who try to finaggle this shaolin aspect into a loophole you guys could try and use to your benefit. We stand on the claim that it was a family form taught within si mo yuens family. You are only hoping for some chance to lay claim to our form. Its not yours. Its ours.


the counterpoint as you mention is that if every other practitioner is performing the form with dfw "earmarks" and only your group performs them without,

the form doc fai wongs performs in real life isn't the form you guys stole from the book. He practices and teaches it without the earmarks he left behind for people who copy forms from books.


there are other folks out there who do not do the form the same way, so that argument also goes out the window.

who are these people? Are they shaolin do?

[Empty_Cup]

man you guys are whacked! You are proud of a thread that questions your legitmacy by the entired kung fu world?

Im so proud to be gi free!!!!!

Not proud to be hated on, but proud of the SD practitioners on this forum that have shown poise and respect amidst the war-mongers. Defending blanket accusations against all SD practitioners and believing in legends are different things. Don't confuse the two.

Glad you're proud to be practicing your style. Feel free to start a thread on HSCLF.

[Old Noob]

I hate to say this but HSK's position is not really that unreasonable notwithstanding his sometimes indelicate treatment of his debators.

Though the form could have come from a source outside of HSK's lineage, the possibility that it would be transmitted in exactly the same way such that it would show every marker that DFW put in his book is exceedinly remote. This is especially true if the markers weren't markers that made the form look more northern or southern but were really simply markers to track folks who took the form from the book. Put another way, if SD had the form from another lineage, it wouldn't look like DFW's marked-up form, it would look more southern or something else.

Given that Sin The is an abo****ely proven liar (either under oath at his depositions or to his students) and that our version of the form isn't stylistically different from HSK's lineage but rather exactly the same with the markers put in by DFW, the great weight of the evidence is that Sin The either learned the form from the book or from someone who learned the form with the DFW markers. He's pretty logically sound on this one.

[hskwarrior]

i hate to say this but hsk's position is not really that unreasonable notwithstanding his sometimes indelicate treatment of his debators.

yeah i know i can come off rough at times, but in this case, i have no love for people who are unwilling to listen even in the face of their leader was proven to make **** up, label it, then pass it off as authentic.

[Old Noob]

Given the discussion about the roundhouse kick on the main board, which is one of the better threads I've seen on here recently, do you think the presence of that kick in our forms supports the possibility that those forms were created by Sin The? The kick appears in both the short kata and the sparring techniques. It's in flying tiger comes out of the cave and in golden mountain tiger. What do you think?

[Empty_Cup]

if you're not proud of why people are hating on you, change what they are hating on. Seriously, everything your lineage does is questioned by the martial arts community. We aren't a bunch of dummies, we know better.

...

Blanket statements again. How much material have you actually seen that aren't videos from youtube? And of the material you've seen, how much of it was actually endorsed by the SD community as being good?

You don't speak for the martial arts community. Remember, SD is also part of that community, whether you approve or not.

[Empty_Cup]

Given the discussion about the roundhouse kick on the main board, which is one of the better threads I've seen on here recently, do you think the presence of that kick in our forms supports the possibility that those forms were created by Sin The? The kick appears in both the short kata and the sparring techniques. It's in flying tiger comes out of the cave and in golden mountain tiger. What do you think?

Haven't been following that thread but I'll take a look and get back to you.

[hskwarrior]

Attention: Old noob, empty cup, and a few others.

I don't personally find you to be scummy people. Jake on the other hand is another story. Yet, what i don't like is what sin the did to create a new system. I don't like the fact that he lied to you about a hairy ass circus clown as being a shaolin monk. I also dislike the fact the he taught you guys things the entire gung fu community knows to be wrong.

Don't take what i say personally. But i will defend my lineage and its material.

[pazman]

http://www.lolwut.com/layout/lolwut.jpg

[pazman]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zROrmpqrb_Q/0.jpg

lol wut

[pazman]

http://urlybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/WTF-Karate-Kid.jpg

Shaolin Do Guys: What's your favorite kata?

[pazman]

http://shaolinwestsa.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/sin-white2.319225658.jpg

Ichi, ni, san, shi, Shaolin Do is the karate for me!

[pazman]

http://www.ntshaolin.com/images/GLeopard02.jpg

Don't mind me, just teaching out another form I learned from a book, or I made up.

[pazman]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yS6rjXWlw0E/T8Jdrsrtt7I/AAAAAAAAAV0/tY_RkXKx_Lo/s1600/cobrakai.jpg

lol wut

[Jimbo]

whats surprising is that everyone but the person that claims this as sole property knows more about than the ones he claims stole it. What's more is he doesn't know any of us at all and yet still keeps making blanket statements about it ,yet has not proof. In addition this person keeps ranting and raving like a lunatic instead talking to us like a reasonable sane adult. He's an elitist and yet isn't elite.:eek::D:cool:

I don't think hkswarrior is elitist.
In another thread, I mentioned that I learned a CLF form from his lineage off of a DFW DVD. I knew there were markers inserted into it. Hsk made an offer to me to send a vid of me doing it, and he would look at it and offer some help. Although I'm a CLF practitioner, he doesn't know me. IME, not many MAists would make such an offer to a stranger.

It's an offer I plan to take him up on, whenever I can drag my a$$ into the 21st century and get set up, learn to make my own videos, and also learn to send them. :o:D

[tattooedmonk]

HSK WARRIOR.... i can't respect anyone or anything about the kungarate style of shaolin do.


this pretty much says it all right herre.:rolleyes::eek::D;):cool:

[tattooedmonk]

I don't think hkswarrior is elitist.
In another thread, I mentioned that I learned a CLF form from his lineage off of a DFW DVD. I knew there were markers inserted into it. Hsk made an offer to me to send a vid of me doing it, and he would look at it and offer some help. Although I'm a CLF practitioner, he doesn't know me. IME, not many MAists would make such an offer to a stranger.

It's an offer I plan to take him up on, whenever I can drag my a$$ into the 21st century and get set up, learn to make my own videos, and also learn to send them. :o:DI take it back.... he is a trash talking blowhard that cant use facts , logic or reason to debate anything and has to use childish antics, name calling and excuses to fill the void ...:rolleyes::eek::D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

kick@$$!!!:D:D:D:cool:

[bawang]

I take it back.... he is a trash talking blowhard that cant use facts , logic or reason to debate anything and has to use childish antics, name calling and excuses to fill the void ...:rolleyes::eek::D:cool:

no. he speak truth. you are indoctrinated. or you just treat asian culture and martial arts as a joke, a toy for your amusement.

[Empty_Cup]

I hate to say this but HSK's position is not really that unreasonable notwithstanding his sometimes indelicate treatment of his debators.

Though the form could have come from a source outside of HSK's lineage, the possibility that it would be transmitted in exactly the same way such that it would show every marker that DFW put in his book is exceedinly remote. This is especially true if the markers weren't markers that made the form look more northern or southern but were really simply markers to track folks who took the form from the book. Put another way, if SD had the form from another lineage, it wouldn't look like DFW's marked-up form, it would look more southern or something else.

Given that Sin The is an abo****ely proven liar (either under oath at his depositions or to his students) and that our version of the form isn't stylistically different from HSK's lineage but rather exactly the same with the markers put in by DFW, the great weight of the evidence is that Sin The either learned the form from the book or from someone who learned the form with the DFW markers. He's pretty logically sound on this one.

I agree with you if the bold statement above is true. But I thought that was the point of discussion. I have to defer to others like TTM and JP because I haven't learned the form. My understanding is that hsk made a false connection between SD having a form called "Shaolin 5 Animals" and assumed it was the version with markers.

[hskwarrior]

I take it back.... he is a trash talking blowhard that cant use facts , logic or reason to debate anything and has to use childish antics, name calling and excuses to fill the void ...

ttm,

YOU ARE A STRAIGHT UP DISGRUNTLED JOKE WHO CAN'T FATHOM THE FACT THAT HE WAS LIED TO BY SOME GUY FROM INDONESIA WHO CLAIMS A HAIRY MONK AND A NON EXISTENT SHAOLIN TEMPLE.

YOU ARE TOO POOSEY TO SHOW A VIDEO OF YOURSELF DOING OUR FORM. SO, I TAKE IT BACK ABOUT YOU, YOU'RE A DOOFUS.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.ntshaolin.com/images/GLeopard02.jpg
Don't mind me, just teaching out another form I learned from a book, or I made up.

tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

funnnnnnnnny

[Old Noob]

I agree with you if the bold statement above is true. But I thought that was the point of discussion. I have to defer to others like TTM and JP because I haven't learned the form. My understanding is that hsk made a false connection between SD having a form called "Shaolin 5 Animals" and assumed it was the version with markers.

He's said that Jake's version of the form is exactly the same as DFW's, including the markers. He's demurred when asked to say exactly what the markers are under the rationale that he doesn't want to help SD appropriate the full version of their form, which is not entirely unreasonable. Whether to take him at his word is up to each individual but, while I have found HSK to be unreasonable sometimes, I haven't seen him be dishonest in any way.

[Empty_Cup]

He's said that Jake's version of the form is exactly the same as DFW's, including the markers. He's demurred when asked to say exactly what the markers are under the rationale that he doesn't want to help SD appropriate the full version of their form, which is not entirely unreasonable. Whether to take him at his word is up to each individual but, while I have found HSK to be unreasonable sometimes, I haven't seen him be dishonest in any way.

Ah, I see. And has anybody corroborated that Jake's version is the same as SD's version? I know that's where he started but it's also possible Jake changed his practice based on DFW's material. i.e. Jake's practice is not SD's practice of this form.

[pazman]

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/1ee7a22afb9eeef13a75ca2a50bf39e2/l.jpg
USSD's fake kung fu is better than Shaolin Do's fake kung fu.

[hskwarrior]

He's said that Jake's version of the form is exactly the same as DFW's, including the markers. He's demurred when asked to say exactly what the markers are under the rationale that he doesn't want to help SD appropriate the full version of their form, which is not entirely unreasonable. Whether to take him at his word is up to each individual but, while I have found HSK to be unreasonable sometimes, I haven't seen him be dishonest in any way.

i know i can be unreasonable. and no, i don't want to share any information about our form because of the way it was learned by some people in Shaolin Do. but thank you for recognizing im being honest.

i value my lineage, my own skills (whatever they are) and what my sifu has taught me. i will protect that will my life. i would gladly assist those who learned the form wrong as long as they admit to how it was learned and how it came to be corrected.

but, no matter what, i'm going to let TTM continue to practice his stolen book with with all of its earmarks. everyone in my lineage will know about this however.

[hskwarrior]

Ah, I see. And has anybody corroborated that Jake's version is the same as SD's version? I know that's where he started but it's also possible Jake changed his practice based on DFW's material. i.e. Jake's practice is not SD's practice of this form.

aaaahhhh you're so full of nonsense. show us the form YOU are referring to? you know why you won't? cause you know the truth, as simple as that.

and the funniest part of all of this is the fact that some of you on this forum are too clueless to know what is karate and what is real kung fu.

kungarate!

[sean_stonehart]

I've met Frank before in SF. He's my uncle in the Hung Sing line of CLF (even if there is separation involved). I've performed on same street as him at the same event... hell I think he was drumming when I was in the lion, not sure since I couldn't see from the back of the lion.

Frank has outlined his "faults" in dealing with people in this type of situation. He doesn't back down from it not apologise for it. It is who he is. I personally may not always agree with how things are addressed, but there's not an issue when it comes to respect of time, energy & knowledge of the materials.

The one thing that needs to be remembered in this... he knows the Futsan Lau Bun Hung Sing CLF & its history. Hands down. Seriously. Any questioning really & truly needs to stop there. It's tantamount to arguing with Chen Xiao Wang about Chen Taiji and you have zero to no experience in it or a pilot on how to land a plane, especially if you never have. There are never absolutes on anything, but when somebody is that in depth & entrenched in that topic... accept what's being said as correct unless proven in concrete otherwise.

It's common knowledge DFW & other sifu who have published books/videos almost always mark the set. It's not a big shocker. What the issue is that the form as practiced by SD is rife with the DFW markers from book (not video given the horrendous playing & transmission of the set), and that SD maintains (towing the line, not individuals) its story about it, and Jake has been openly called while doing nothing to help the cause.

Bottom line is, because Frank's sifu is the head of the Hung Sing CLF line that the form comes from, there's the ultimate word on what is & is not. Is it practiced a little different in DFW's line? Probably & that's fine. They don't lay claim to it as has been done by SD. DFW is quick to point out the relationship between him & Lau Bun & the materials learned.

Just a quick reminder of who's who in this...

[hskwarrior]

I've met Frank before in SF. He's my uncle in the Hung Sing line of CLF (even if there is separation involved). I've performed on same street as him at the same event... hell I think he was drumming when I was in the lion, not sure since I couldn't see from the back of the lion.

Frank has outlined his "faults" in dealing with people in this type of situation. He doesn't back down from it not apologise for it. It is who he is. I personally may not always agree with how things are addressed, but there's not an issue when it comes to respect of time, energy & knowledge of the materials.

The one thing that needs to be remembered in this... he knows the Futsan Lau Bun Hung Sing CLF & its history. Hands down. Seriously. Any questioning really & truly needs to stop there. It's tantamount to arguing with Chen Xiao Wang about Chen Taiji and you have zero to no experience in it or a pilot on how to land a plane, especially if you never have. There are never absolutes on anything, but when somebody is that in depth & entrenched in that topic... accept what's being said as correct unless proven in concrete otherwise.

It's common knowledge DFW & other sifu who have published books/videos almost always mark the set. It's not a big shocker. What the issue is that the form as practiced by SD is rife with the DFW markers from book (not video given the horrendous playing & transmission of the set), and that SD maintains (towing the line, not individuals) its story about it, and Jake has been openly called while doing nothing to help the cause.

Bottom line is, because Frank's sifu is the head of the Hung Sing CLF line that the form comes from, there's the ultimate word on what is & is not. Is it practiced a little different in DFW's line? Probably & that's fine. They don't lay claim to it as has been done by SD. DFW is quick to point out the relationship between him & Lau Bun & the materials learned.

Just a quick reminder of who's who in this...

appreciated. thank you for the honesty. check your pm

i will defend my lineage and its material with all i have. but the one thing i try never to do is talk bad about people's level of skill or experience. i know its all different.

But, sean, if that was you in the video i sent you, you did a great job at the set which i why i still have it up.

[GeneChing]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yS6rjXWlw0E/T8Jdrsrtt7I/AAAAAAAAAV0/tY_RkXKx_Lo/s1600/cobrakai.jpg

lol wut And special mention to pazman for posting the post that got us over the 1K hump. Man, of all the images to do it with. Well played, pazman.

This is a landmark achievement for the Shaolin forum, as well as the KFM forum at large.

Onward to 2K!

:D

[sean_stonehart]

appreciated. thank you for the honesty. check your pm

i will defend my lineage and its material with all i have. but the one thing i try never to do is talk bad about people's level of skill or experience. i know its all different.

But, sean, if that was you in the video i sent you, you did a great job at the set which i why i still have it up.

PM'd back...

CLF Yat Ga...

[kwaichang]

By then we will all be dead and gone HSK, up yours, u want respect earn it, You have no right to hate all just for one or 2 have done. Get a life. KC:):rolleyes::cool::D:(

[pazman]

1000 has been reached.

Let's close the thread.

[Empty_Cup]

1000 has been reached.

Let's close the thread.

Here's a better idea: Let's limit the thread to discussion of SD techniques and training. Those interested stay. Those not go.

[tattooedmonk]

He's said that Jake's version of the form is exactly the same as DFW's, including the markers. He's demurred when asked to say exactly what the markers are under the rationale that he doesn't want to help SD appropriate the full version of their form, which is not entirely unreasonable. Whether to take him at his word is up to each individual but, while I have found HSK to be unreasonable sometimes, I haven't seen him be dishonest in any way.There isnt enough of the form that jake performed to determine that. thats been the problem the whole time , he has no proof. just words....just words...but he thinks if he types in bold capital letters and rants and raves eveyone will believe him. as you can see most do.

he still has no proof of anything and is only going on the words of his teacher(s)

:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

[Empty_Cup]

There is enough of the form that jake performed to determine that. thats been the problem the whole time , he has no proof. ...

What do you mean by that line? Are you saying there is enough of the form that jake performed to determine if it's the same as DFW's book?

[tattooedmonk]

....wouldnt it stand to reason that more than one person/ system would have it in teachings? I mean if it was a Northern Shaolin form devolped by at least three people , this just makes sense..... right?

unless he's ****ed off and knows it wasnt Shaolin and was made up by Lau Bun / CLF stylist to have some connection to Shaolin!?

Also ..the claims that DFW made up the lyrics?/ His lyrics arent even the same as SKTs..

how do identify the moves??:eek::rolleyes::D;):cool:

[hskwarrior]

there is enough of the form that jake performed to determine that. Thats been the problem the whole time , he has no proof. Just words....just words...but he thinks if he types in bold capital letters and rants and raves eveyone will believe him. As you can see most do.

He still has no proof of anything and is only going on the words of his teacher(s)

and your dumb ass believes that your karate i mean wannabe kung fu came from some unknown hairy ass circus attraction from a non existent shaolin temple.

you got lied to but you are of that cult mentality and have been brainwashed to think sin the is a real master. Lmao

[hskwarrior]

if it was originally a shaolin form
....wouldnt it stand to reason that more than one person/ system would have it in teachings? I mean if it was a northern shaolin form devolped by at least three people , this just makes sense..... Right?

Unless he's ****ed off and knows it wasnt shaolin and was made up by lau bun / clf stylist to have some connection to shaolin!?

Also ..the claims that dfw made up the lyrics?/ his lyrics arent even the same as skts..

How do identify the moves??

all you do is talk. You have nothing to offer than your blind obedience to jo jo the dog face boy.

And regardless if lau bun, the sage of the martial arts in his time, made up anything, it was his right to do so as he was the sole inheritor of the yuen hai hung sing kwoon lineage. But the one thing he wasn't was a liar like sin the was.

You're too weak to post a video of yourself dong the form in question.

and regardless of what you feel, you (TTM) came from a school where the entire martial art community the truth about it. monkey beak practicing joke

HUNG SING FOR LIFE!

[Empty_Cup]

and your dumb ass believes that your karate i mean wannabe kung fu came from some unknown hairy ass circus attraction from a non existent shaolin temple.

you got lied to but you are of that cult mentality and have been brainwashed to think sin the is a real master. Lmao

The claim that SKTD was really Li Baoshu never went further than unverified pictures which were a stretch at best. Also, the timelines didn't match. The Fukien (Fujian) temple's existence was also not in question, from my understanding. There might be debate on exact location, but not existence.

It's obvious SD is not a cult. Repeating that over and over won't make it so.

Why don't you respond to TTM's point he makes below:


....wouldnt it stand to reason that more than one person/ system would have it in teachings? I mean if it was a Northern Shaolin form devolped by at least three people , this just makes sense..... right?

unless he's ****ed off and knows it wasnt Shaolin and was made up by Lau Bun / CLF stylist to have some connection to Shaolin!?

Also ..the claims that DFW made up the lyrics?/ His lyrics arent even the same as SKTs..

how do identify the moves??:eek::rolleyes::D;):cool:

[tattooedmonk]

and your dumb ass believes that your karate i mean wannabe kung fu came from some unknown hairy ass circus attraction from a non existent shaolin temple.

you got lied to but you are of that cult mentality and have been brainwashed to think sin the is a real master. Lmaoanother post as proof of what I am saying...:rolleyes::confused:

[tattooedmonk]

... the people that make up the kungfu/ martial arts community is small percentage of the community,maybe less than 4%, and the people in this forum are an even smaller percentasge of that , and people that give a sh!t at all are fewer than that...how about that for medicine?

Hsk here is a internet bully/ troll, childish/ imature and uneducated in the very basics of conversation and debate....

there is no point to this or most of the threads in this forum .

its just beyond ridiculous.

might as well lock this thread or delete it:rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

lau bun didn't make it up. There is no reason for him to lie. He wasn't selling white people a dream like sin the did. Like so many others had. Lau bun was the pride of the gung fu world in his day. All gung fu masters who came after he did came to pay him respect. Every well known karate master did the same thing.

hung sing choy lee fut founded by jeung hung sing has three connections to shaolin. 1) lee yau san, founder of the lee gar style
2) choy fook & chan yuen wu via chan heung
3) monk ching cho (fut gar kuen)

however, the 5 animal form passed down to lau bun via si mo yuen, who learned it from her parents was alleged to be a northern shaolin 5 animal form. But and i love this but, northern shaolin 5 animal forms today and yesterday and tomorrow are very very rare even today. You may find one or two. But that is it.

Typical northern doesn't have the snake, crane, dragon, tiger, pantHer. These are traits of southern gung fu. For example, southern shaolin 5 animals. You have shaolin, hung gar, clf, and so forth have their 5 animals forms.

What i personally feel is that ttm would love it to be a common form found in shaolin. If it were, it would be easy to find today now wouldn't it?

Now, i will share with you something that even buddhajoe can verify, the shaolin aspect of this form is and was the furthest thing from our minds as we were hung sing kuen and not a school from shaolin. we don't use the terms found in doc fai's book. never have. Doc fai wong wanted to sell this book so he played on the fact that it is a rare shaolin form to achieve this.

The form that jake the fake is doing is alleged to be the same form in shaolin do. If this is true, then i am 100% correct about all i've said.

If shaolin do's shaolin 5 animal form isn't the same one jake the fake is doing, why won't ttm show me, us, the world what he is talking about?

How about this, contact doc fai wong himself, easily done, some of his students are on this forum, and ask him if there would be any other school outside our lineage which includes him, if there are any others schools that have this specific 5 animal form. I can already predict his answer.

[hskwarrior]

... the people that make up the kungfu/ martial arts community is small percentage of the community,maybe less than 4%, and the people in this forum are an even smaller percentasge of that , and people that give a sh!t at all are fewer than that...how about that for medicine?


4% HUH? SMALL HUH? LMAO. ( I LOVE THE REAL MARTIAL ARTS COMMUNITY).


Hsk here is a internet bully/ troll, childish/ imature and uneducated in the very basics of conversation and debate....

YOU'RE SO SOFT. LOL. I'M FAT AND I STILL SAY YOU'RE SOFT. lol.


there is no point to this or most of the threads in this forum .

its just beyond ridiculous.

might as well lock this thread or delete it

NO WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE REAL GUNG FU PEOPLE AS SOFT AS YOU.

TOO BAD YOU CAN'T BLOCK US OUT LIKE ON YOUTUBE HUH? ROTFLMMFAO@U!

[tattooedmonk]

Si Mo Yuen had two parents ... they both studied with the same teacher(s)? Their teacher(s) didnt teach anyone else? Northern Shaolin at the time was a very big place....was it not? was Shaolin not the style of styles then?

Let me say this. I understand where you are coming from , its a rare form that you and your lineage value and believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are the sole inheritors of it and believe so much so and are so passionate about it but it really isnt doing anything for your cause when you can even discuss /show proof or anything about it without ranting and raving like a lunatic...

[tattooedmonk]

4% HUH? SMALL HUH? LMAO. ( I LOVE THE REAL MARTIAL ARTS COMMUNITY).



YOU'RE SO SOFT. LOL. I'M FAT AND I STILL SAY YOU'RE SOFT. lol.



NO WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE REAL GUNG FU PEOPLE AS SOFT AS YOU.

TOO BAD YOU CAN'T BLOCK US OUT LIKE ON YOUTUBE HUH? ROTFLMMFAO@U!I am soft when I need to be and hard when I need to be....so?:D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

there are multiple versions of this form...jakes , docs , yours:eek:, sifu joes:rolleyes: SD and mine ... they all come from the same source , the creator of the form.

who cares?;)

...what would be nice is a discussion on the form its self , maybe I can give you a few tips on how to do it correctly.:D

I already offered to jake but he refused.:eek::cool:

[hskwarrior]

so...
Si mo yuen had two parents ... They both studied with the same teacher(s)? Their teacher(s) didnt teach anyone else? Northern shaolin at the time was a very big place....was it not? Was shaolin not the style of styles then?

Let me say this. I understand where you are coming from , its a rare form that you and your lineage value and believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are the sole inheritors of it and believe so much so and are so passionate about it but it really isnt doing anything for your cause when you can even discuss /show proof or anything about it without ranting and raving like a lunatic...

you're really wasting your time. The lunatic is you, you are too cultly brainwashed to know the truth. I hope you make it back one day to realize how dumb you are acting. You come from shaolin do, the most widely controverisial school on the entire form. The thread about you guys that reached 1000 pages is all about how fake shaolin do is.

I come from hung sing kwoon. One of the most well known lineages in all of choy lee fut. We've been here in america since the early 1920's and would know if there was another system out there that practiced our form.

The instant i saw jake doing his fake version of our form, i knew without a shadow of a doubt that that was our form. Sure, a change here and there, but the frame work hadn't changed at all which is the primary reason why i can pick apart every single part of the form that has been changed.

There is zero....i mean nothing you can offer me about this form since you guys got it from dfw's book. You should come to us, sin the should come to us, that hairy ass fake monk should come to us and get corrected.

[tattooedmonk]

alone should prove they arent the same , right?

I mean SKTs lyrics are different than DFWs...and if he copied the book why would he have alternate lyrics...

whats more is that SKTs are the actual 128 moves for each posture where DFWs is not...why?

if SKT didnt get them from DFW or HSK then where and why are they complete?

yet no one in HSK camp knows about them...!?

how do you distinguish between each animal and their movments as you change back and forth throughout the form?

hmm there is already some doubt.:rolleyes::eek::D;):cool:

[Old Noob]

Ah, I see. And has anybody corroborated that Jake's version is the same as SD's version? I know that's where he started but it's also possible Jake changed his practice based on DFW's material. i.e. Jake's practice is not SD's practice of this form.

Jake only put one or two sections up on his youtube account. Like you, I don't have the form. The observations from the SD crowd that do have the form is that it is basically the form that is taught in SD with the Soard flavor, as opposed to the Mullins flavor or the Leonard flavor, etc. So if HSK saw the markers, odds are that they aren't a coincidence of how Jake executed the form.

[tattooedmonk]

you're really wasting your time. The lunatic is you, you are too cultly brainwashed to know the truth. I hope you make it back one day to realize how dumb you are acting. You come from shaolin do, the most widely controverisial school on the entire form. The thread about you guys that reached 1000 pages is all about how fake shaolin do is.

I come from hung sing kwoon. One of the most well known lineages in all of choy lee fut. We've been here in america since the early 1920's and would know if there was another system out there that practiced our form.

The instant i saw jake doing his fake version of our form, i knew without a shadow of a doubt that that was our form. Sure, a change here and there, but the frame work hadn't changed at all which is the primary reason why i can pick apart every single part of the form that has been changed.

There is zero....i mean nothing you can offer me about this form since you guys got it from dfw's book. You should come to us, sin the should come to us, that hairy ass fake monk should come to us and get corrected.blahblah blah.. you cant even tell us whats wrong with it...basic stuff, not the super secret , indoor/ closed door cr@p.just the basics ... its the basics for many styles of kung fu its not that hard or difficult to figure out or explain... maybe thats your problem...?:eek::D;):cool:

what makes the CLF version of this better? what are the southern characterstics that are missing in his form, flavor? ...

I am not talking about the markers or whatever:rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

alone should prove they arent the same , right?

I mean skts lyrics are different than dfws...and if he copied the book why would he have alternate lyrics...

Whats more is that skts are the actual 128 moves for each posture where dfws is not...why?

If skt didnt get them from dfw or hsk then where and why are they complete?

Yet no one in hsk camp knows about them...!?

How do you distinguish between each animal and their movments as you change back and forth throughout the form?

Hmm there is already some doubt.

no matter how you try to twist, turn, pull or yank it, you lose on this one. Plain and simple.

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE SIN THE CLAIM HE LEARNED THE SHAOLIN 5 ANIMAL FORM FROM?

[hskwarrior]

blahblah blah.. you cant even tell us whats wrong with it...basic stuff, not the super secret , indoor/ closed door cr@p.just the basics ... its the basics for many styles of kung fu its not that hard or difficult to figure out or explain... maybe thats your problem...?

I'LL PICK APART YOUR FORM FASTER THAN A FAT B1TCH DEVOURS A CHICKEN BONE. lol

GO WITH JAKE WHO LEARNS FROM THE EARTH NOW. GREEN PAINTED RUBBER ROOMS AWAIT YOU TWO.

NO, ITS NOT THAT I CAN'T TELL YOU. I "WON'T" TELL YOU. KEEP PRACTICING THE BOOK STUFF.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Frank...are you actually arguing with shaolin-do people?
:confused:

[tattooedmonk]

Jake only put one or two sections up on his youtube account. Like you, I don't have the form. The observations from the SD crowd that do have the form is that it is basically the form that is taught in SD with the Soard flavor, as opposed to the Mullins flavor or the Leonard flavor, etc. So if HSK saw the markers, odds are that they aren't a coincidence of how Jake executed the form.Like I said before, there isnt enough there in the videos... yes the stop points are the same because the frame work is the same ...the flow is from a different school than CLF...

there is more to this issue with frank and Jake Rydberg...

personally I think frank is jealous of jake...and he should be , hes a great athlete...

because frank cant say anything about that, he has to attack the form.

I know the form too.

I dont like jakes version...

[hskwarrior]

Frank...are you actually arguing with shaolin-do people?

come on man! if i tell you that it ruins my fun. :eek: :D

its like what a cat does right before eating the rat.

[tattooedmonk]

you're really wasting your time. The lunatic is you, you are too cultly brainwashed to know the truth. I hope you make it back one day to realize how dumb you are acting. You come from shaolin do, the most widely controverisial school on the entire form. The thread about you guys that reached 1000 pages is all about how fake shaolin do is.

I come from hung sing kwoon. One of the most well known lineages in all of choy lee fut. We've been here in america since the early 1920's and would know if there was another system out there that practiced our form.

The instant i saw jake doing his fake version of our form, i knew without a shadow of a doubt that that was our form. Sure, a change here and there, but the frame work hadn't changed at all which is the primary reason why i can pick apart every single part of the form that has been changed.

There is zero....i mean nothing you can offer me about this form since you guys got it from dfw's book. You should come to us, sin the should come to us, that hairy ass fake monk should come to us and get corrected.Doesnt matter your lineage , you are still a d-o-u-che bag.:D:cool:

[hskwarrior]

there is more to this issue with frank and jake rydberg...

Personally i think frank is jealous of jake...and he should be , hes a great athlete...

Because frank cant say anything about that, he has to attack the form.

I know the form too.

I dont like jakes version...

rotfflmfao@ttm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

(you don't know the form. Stop lying.) you know the form. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sure you do. ;) and you're good at it too huh? ;) :d yeah right!



Doesnt matter your lineage , you are still a d-o-u-che bag.

HAHAHA. THE BEST ALWAYS HAS HATERS. SIFU ALWAYS SAID ITS LONELY AT THE TOP. GUESS HE'S RIGHT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

S-H-A-O-L-I-N-D-O-D-O-U-C-H-E THE HAIRY MONK(EY)