Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Kellen Bassette]

Only even close text reference I've ever found is in Library of Congress, an historical reference to a style known as "Shooting Star" system. Not sure it is the same thing at all.

There's a Hung Gar form named Shooting Star..but I doubt it would be the same form...

[-N-]

I don't know that it can be equated with bad or worthless, ONLY because it was made up or hybrid. HSK is proud of the form he made up and I'm sure it has benefits for him and others. I know others who have done the same thing, to have a set that contains the best of what they like to do. Doesn't mean it is "bad" or not worth praciticing.

I've understood the hand postures to be combinations of strikes, particularlly to pressure points, and also grabs where applicable.

I definately would equate his poking with bad and worthless.

http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

Look when he kicks. He has no focus or awareness of his hands. They sort of just flail around.

Basic beginner mistake to forget one thing while doing something else. I yell at students for less.

Also, Mantis is aggressive and tactical. It controls while attacking. This is fundamental to Mantis.

His attacks are just a kick and random poking strung together. He has no controlling techniques to support his attacks.

This is made up by someone that doesn't understand Mantis, and maybe even not TCMA. Just look at the body mechanics.

[One student]

forms practice is good for a demonstration. for health. and is one aspect of training. just because you practice forms doesn't mean you can fight in the least. nor does it mean you know how to effectively use it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

forms are nothing than a reference guide on how to use it. the only way to build your fighting skills is to FIGHT. thats it. you need to work your basics, and apply them. will you use the material as found in the forms? in most cases no.



you can develop all of these without forms.



i was already fighting prior to learning martial arts. so no, i don't feel forms made me or anyone else a better fighter. just because you can do a form well doesn't mean you can fight.



i agree. forms are not a waste of time. but i would NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a person if you want to fight better you have to learn a specific form. never in my life would i do that. and feel bad for others who DO.



our forms practice is intended to perfect the techniques in them. understand them. OWN them. but this is not the way i would or will teach someone how to fight.



i disagree. there are fighters who understand forms better because the person know how to fight already. but not the other way around.



this is called TRADITION. has nothing to do with fighting whatsoever.

I don't agree that forms are nothing but "tradition" and have nothing to with with fighting. Didn't the creators of the forms put their fighting techinques in the forms, on purpose? Didn't the drills and fighting techniques they like go into those forms? And martial artists who believe in forms practice take them out and apply them? And doesn't doing those forms, and finding the gold in them, do more for a fighter than just giving them the gold? At least that is what some masters say. Maybe you are advocating skipping that step -- doing the forms to find and train the techniques -- and go straight to "what are the techniques?" and just doing those? I can't deny that many good fighters agree with you.

But I agree, you don't HAVE to do forms to be a good fighter. But I think it can help. But it may also be splitting hairs. Doing simple punching, kicking, blocking, etc., drills is just a less formal "form" practice: repetition of the same technique, even if with less focus on "formality." But I think that when I'm doing a punch, kick, sweep, throw, or whatever, from a formal horse, cat, bow, etc., stance, repeatedly, I can do that same move better, in a fighting/sparring stance. Like when I practice with a weight jacket, or with resistance bands, then take them off: the technique is better. I think you are correct, but so am I, we are just splitting hairs on what is a "form": a set of drills, repetitively practiced to improve their performance.

And it is so correct, as I have said before, there is no better way to be a better fighter than fighting. But that's no different than saying the best way to be a better runner is by running, or a swimmer than by swimming. There is though "cross training" methods that also help. Forms, bag work, sparring, etc., all (hopefully) help when you actually have to do something. But who these days goes out to the bar, to the street, to the bad part of town, hopefully to get in a fight? Or find another fighter and challenge them to a no-rules fight. Or do you join a real-life "fight club"? And I will suggest, and don't think many would disagree, that ring fighting, or sparring in class, full contact or not, is not "fighting." You are not really trying to do bodily harm to disable that person so they can't fight, and you know they aren't really trying to do that to you (a busted nose, a black eye, not the same thing). And in a ring, too many rules. One of my favorite lines from one of my favorite martial arts movies (Red Belt): "I don't believe in competition fighting. It makes one weak." In other words, you have to un-train the techniques that will break the rules, but also "break" the opponent.

[hskwarrior]

Quote:
But isn't it true that learning forms, if practiced properly, can help build the skills that can lead to being a better fighter?
forms practice is good for a demonstration. for health. and is one aspect of training. just because you practice forms doesn't mean you can fight in the least. nor does it mean you know how to effectively use it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

forms are nothing than a reference guide on how to use it. the only way to build your fighting skills is to FIGHT. thats it. you need to work your basics, and apply them. will you use the material as found in the forms? in most cases no.

Quote:
Strength, speed, stability, balance, endurance, coordination, etc.?
you can develop all of these without forms.

Quote:
I think I was a better fighter because I did forms, then free practice (like sparring techniques and bag work), then light sparring, then contact sparring, etc.
i was already fighting prior to learning martial arts. so no, i don't feel forms made me or anyone else a better fighter. just because you can do a form well doesn't mean you can fight.

Quote:
But form practice is not a waste of time, even if you want to be a better actual fighter.
i agree. forms are not a waste of time. but i would NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a person if you want to fight better you have to learn a specific form. never in my life would i do that. and feel bad for others who DO.

Quote:
True, if not practiced properly its no more than exercise, but it doesn't have to be "just exercise," does it?
our forms practice is intended to perfect the techniques in them. understand them. OWN them. but this is not the way i would or will teach someone how to fight.

Quote:
But there are also forms practitioners who are better fighters because of their forms practice.
i disagree. there are fighters who understand forms better because the person know how to fight already. but not the other way around.

Quote:
But there are also forms practitioners who are better fighters because of their forms practice. Isn't that why (at least partially) forms practice has been handed down, and is a common thread in most TMA -- including CLF?
this is called TRADITION. has nothing to do with fighting whatsoever.

[YouKnowWho]

Do people know that there are 3 different ways to do a form? You can do the same form for

- combat,
- health, and
- performance.

For example, when you do form for

- "combat", you will punch fast and pull back fast.
- "health", you will punch slow and pull back fast.
- "performance", you will punch fast, leave your arm to be frozen in the air, screaming like a madman with ugly facial expression.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4PPST_enUS398US398&biw=1344&bih=661&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=6RjoN72JACi9jM:&imgrefurl=http://www.rgbstock.com/bigphoto/mq2yYOK/rage%2B1&docid=NXeRjiY5CGeLpM&imgurl=http://m.rgbimg.com/cache1objMc/users/a/al/alessandro/600/mq2yYOK.jpg&w=450&h=600&ei=PKaVUOmdEOH5igKyrYGQBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1110&vpy=261&dur=2159&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=116&ty=179&sig=103117543932510472467&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:105

[Kellen Bassette]

I think the best aspect of forms is that they incorporate so many vital practices into one exercise.

You can't learn to fight without fighting, no doubt. However, there are so many important attributes to being a good fighter that don't necessarily have to do with fighting. Strength, cardio, stamina, agility, coordination.

Of course these can all be trained independently, but form training is combining your shadow boxing, cardio, agility, ect into one exercise.

If your doing your forms hard and correctly, you should be more tired doing about 3 average length Northern forms then from running a mile. The constant low to high stance changes, the variation of the pace and the explosive movements are killer for cardio and strength.

The muscle memory that is achieved through form practice is certainly applicable to fighting; developing good technique (of course without actual fighting you won't have the timing or instincts to make it work.)

You always hear that forms catalog techniques and they are useful for that, but I think they have more value for the reasons I mentioned above.

I think forms are the most efficient method for practicing all the above mentioned martially applicable attributes. And if you combine that with conditioning, partner drilling and hard sparring, you just might learn to fight.

Forms are also more fun then shadow boxing, squats and running in place.

[-N-]

Do people know that there are 3 different ways to do a form? You can do the same form for

- combat,
- health, and
- performance.

For example, when you do form for

- "combat", you will punch fast and pull back fast.
- "health", you will punch slow and pull back fast.
- "performance", you will punch fast, leave your arm to be frozen in the air, screaming like a madman with ugly facial expression.



So which one is this?

http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

[One student]

Ok, fair enough.

So how do you explain the gif of the teacher himself poking his fingers like an 8 year old trying to annoy his sister?

I'm not sure what "gif of the teacher" you are referring to, I must be missing that reference, so I can't comment on it.

But I know that MH was a Bird System master as his specialty, and GMT was a Snake System master as his specialty. They each semed to have other material they seemed to like or do more of than the other. And I understood there were Mantis masters/specialists at the school they were trained in. And I suppose that makes it obvious their Mantis training likely not what their Bird or Snake training was, maybe even only superficial or basic, maybe no more than just the forms, but could have been more than that. But I don't know more than that. Any one can do something in a video I guess and do it half-**s, maybe or maybe not be representative of any thing serious or intended to be. Or you are correct, it could just be a lack of same understanding as someone who only does that material.

[Jimbo]

I don't agree that forms are nothing but "tradition" and have nothing to with with fighting. Didn't the creators of the forms put their fighting techinques in the forms, on purpose? Didn't the drills and fighting techniques they like go into those forms? And martial artists who believe in forms practice take them out and apply them? And doesn't doing those forms, and finding the gold in them, do more for a fighter than just giving them the gold? At least that is what some masters say. Maybe you are advocating skipping that step -- doing the forms to find and train the techniques -- and go straight to "what are the techniques?" and just doing those? I can't deny that many good fighters agree with you.

But I agree, you don't HAVE to do forms to be a good fighter. But I think it can help. But it may also be splitting hairs. Doing simple punching, kicking, blocking, etc., drills is just a less formal "form" practice: repetition of the same technique, even if with less focus on "formality." But I think that when I'm doing a punch, kick, sweep, throw, or whatever, from a formal horse, cat, bow, etc., stance, repeatedly, I can do that same move better, in a fighting/sparring stance. Like when I practice with a weight jacket, or with resistance bands, then take them off: the technique is better. I think you are correct, but so am I, we are just splitting hairs on what is a "form": a set of drills, repetitively practiced to improve their performance.

And it is so correct, as I have said before, there is no better way to be a better fighter than fighting. But that's no different than saying the best way to be a better runner is by running, or a swimmer than by swimming. There is though "cross training" methods that also help. Forms, bag work, sparring, etc., all (hopefully) help when you actually have to do something. But who these days goes out to the bar, to the street, to the bad part of town, hopefully to get in a fight? Or find another fighter and challenge them to a no-rules fight. Or do you join a real-life "fight club"? And I will suggest, and don't think many would disagree, that ring fighting, or sparring in class, full contact or not, is not "fighting." You are not really trying to do bodily harm to disable that person so they can't fight, and you know they aren't really trying to do that to you (a busted nose, a black eye, not the same thing). And in a ring, too many rules. One of my favorite lines from one of my favorite martial arts movies (Red Belt): "I don't believe in competition fighting. It makes one weak." In other words, you have to un-train the techniques that will break the rules, but also "break" the opponent.

What hskwarrior said is spot on.

I would say there are qualities that forms can enhance to a degree, but they won't make you a better fighter.

In fact, it may be more accurate to say that the person who is better at sparring or fighting with his or her style will do their forms better because of that, not the other way around.

[Empty_Cup]

I'm not sure what "gif of the teacher" you are referring to, I must be missing that reference, so I can't comment on it.
...

A .gif or "gif" is basically a number of pictures strung together to make a video-like image. The file size is generally smaller so it's more popular than embedding video files.

[-N-]

A .gif or "gif" is basically a number of pictures strung together to make a video-like image. The file size is generally smaller so it's more popular than embedding video files.

This gif.

http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

That is not the teacher?

My apologies. I don't normally follow this thread.

I only joined because I saw some talk about Mantis, so posted to give some legit info.

[Syn7]

I don't know that it can be equated with bad or worthless, ONLY because it was made up or hybrid. HSK is proud of the form he made up and I'm sure it has benefits for him and others. I know others who have done the same thing, to have a set that contains the best of what they like to do. Doesn't mean it is "bad" or not worth praciticing.

I've understood the hand postures to be combinations of strikes, particularlly to pressure points, and also grabs where applicable.

Don't get into a discussion of the virtues of pressure point fighting. I'm not convinced of that myself.


I wrote
You think it's a good form? Even though you know it's just a bunch of random movements with no story?

I'm not saying it's bad because it is made up. All forms are made up. A form made yesterday can be just as good as anything made 200 years ago. My comment was focused on the fact that there is no flow and no story. When I say it is random and has no "story", I am not talking about lineage. A good form can be performed with a partner(or more) that is doing more than straight punches and front kicks from a bow stance. A form is more than a bunch of techniques strung together for performance purposes. Some techniques flow into other techniques realistically, others do not. Understanding this is very important when creating a form with a good "story". Ya know what I'm sayin?

[bawang]

I am not angry or anything you believe I am.

I happen to belong to a few reputable organizations and have legitimate connections.

you are full of sh!t and so are many of your nut riders.


you contradict yourself

[bawang]

All forms are made up.

traditional forms are learned by blood. it comes from experience of countless masters killing people on the battlefield. its not the same as college dropout improvised flailing flpppy foot dance routine to make money

[Syn7]

That's what I meant: that is how it has been presented and trained, to me -- in SD. But I've said it before, one can teach the same form and technique, rightly or wrongly, and one student walk away with one impression and result from it, and another student in the same class something else. And somewhere along the line you might end up with what is seen in that video. Don't blame everyone who does that form, by how this person does it.

What I was struck by was his eyes, and where they were focusing.

I have kept my criticisms to performances by Sin The and the students he has given master rankings. I'm not gonna sh1t on some kid cause he sucks, but no problem sh1tting all over a so called master who sucks.

If I can't judge the whole style, or any part thereof, on the GM, then who can I judge the style on?

That is why I asked for examples of students who have excelled in sport combat but have only studied SD. If you have a guy who did some SD, and some muay thai, some bjj, a lil judo, some HS wrestling, sambo and a smattering of arnis, then you can't really say he is using SD in the ring, circle or cage.

Hybrids are great. Don't get me wrong. But for the purposes of judging SD on it's own, you need examples of SD and SD only. With an extensive background I'm sure I could make "temple kung fu" work for me. That doesn't tell me that "temple kung fu" is any good, it just means I already know how to fight and took a lil from the system and adapted it to my own style.

[Syn7]

traditional forms are learned by blood. it comes from experience of countless masters killing people on the battlefield. its not the same as college dropout improvised flailing flpppy foot dance routine to make money

lol. Was Sin The a dropout? Why learn anything when you can just make sh1t up and sell the image to stupid whiteboys, ay!

[Syn7]

This gif.

http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

That is not the teacher?

My apologies. I don't normally follow this thread.

I only joined because I saw some talk about Mantis, so posted to give some legit info.

No, you were right. That is Sin The and the pokes are ridiculous.

[bawang]

lol. Was Sin The a dropout? Why learn anything when you can just make sh1t up and sell the image to stupid whiteboys, ay!

yes, sin the is a college dropout.

No, you were right. That is Sin The and the pokes are ridiculous.

notice how he dyes his hair brown to make his small town midwest students feel "comfortable".

[Empty_Cup]

yes, sin the is a college dropout.


notice how he dyes his hair brown to make his small town midwest students feel "comfortable".

From the website:
Grandmaster Sin Thé continued his education at the University of Kentucky and had nearly completed his Master's Degree in Nuclear Engineering when Ie Chang Ming died in 1976 at the age of 96.

The other website states he earned a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering.

[Syn7]

you make a lot of assumptions and blanket statements without having any fact whats so ever.

That's rich coming from you. I'm not going to waste my time digging out the quotes. But either you know you have made a ton of assumptions or you just don't have the perspective to see the truth. Go through and read your posts, tons of assumptions.

[Syn7]

From the website:
Grandmaster Sin Thé continued his education at the University of Kentucky and had nearly completed his Master's Degree in Nuclear Engineering when Ie Chang Ming died in 1976 at the age of 96.

The other website states he earned a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering.

Yeah, his words or the words of those he told. Show me the scripts and I'll believe that. You know how many people fake credentials? He knows nobody will go back and verify that kind of thing. I'm just sayin, if he lied about so many things so many times I have no reason to believe any of that. I wanna see scripts. Why would anyone come close to a masters and then just quit? All the money, all the time. Doesn't feel right. People who love physics don't stop because they can make more money teaching MA's. They may teach, but they would at least finish. And people who don't love physics don't take NE. Possible, but very improbable. Show me!

[YouKnowWho]

So which one is this?

http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

Not for combat (speed is missing), not for performance (power is missing), it must be for "health".

[Empty_Cup]

Yeah, his words or the words of those he told. Show me the scripts and I'll believe that. You know how many people fake credentials? He knows nobody will go back and verify that kind of thing. I'm just sayin, if he lied about so many things so many times I have no reason to believe any of that. I wanna see scripts. Why would anyone come close to a masters and then just quit? All the money, all the time. Doesn't feel right. People who love physics don't stop because they can make more money teaching MA's. They may teach, but they would at least finish. And people who don't love physics don't take NE. Possible, but very improbable. Show me!

I doubt many here have the means or the interest to go dig up UK enrollment from the 1970s...especially since it's such a tangential aspect to the discussion.

[Syn7]

Ok well I just did and it only took me 5 minutes. Not much of an investment.

First, he is not on any list of alumni. Fair enough, he dropped out before a masters was finished. But he hasn't graduated from ANY engineering programs at UK. I can give you the alum link if you want and go look for yourself.

Second, UK doesn't even have a NE program and as far as I can tell never did. Granted it was in the 70's, but I can't find anything that suggests they ever had a program. Even discontinued curriculum are listed on the site, but not NE.

5 minutes is all I'm willing to give, but I am reasonably satisfied with my search as it is something I do often and am pretty good at.

OK, back to my breadboard, my power supply is p1ssing me off.

[-N-]

Not for combat (speed is missing), not for performance (power is missing), it must be for "health".

Better than sitting around eating Doritos, I guess.

[Syn7]

Better than sitting around eating Doritos, I guess.

Or you can do jumping jacks and learn other callisthenics for free.:eek:

[YouKnowWho]

when creating a form with a good "story". Ya know what I'm sayin?

First question that you should ask yourself is, "Why do I need to create this form?" It's not easy to create a good form. That form has to

- look good,
- fun to train.
- comfortable to train,
- have good reason to train.

[Empty_Cup]

Ok well I just did and it only took me 5 minutes. Not much of an investment.

First, he is not on any list of alumni. Fair enough, he dropped out before a masters was finished. But he hasn't graduated from ANY engineering programs at UK. I can give you the alum link if you want and go look for yourself.

Second, UK doesn't even have a NE program and as far as I can tell never did. Granted it was in the 70's, but I can't find anything that suggests they ever had a program. Even discontinued curriculum are listed on the site, but not NE.

5 minutes is all I'm willing to give, but I am reasonably satisfied with my search as it is something I do often and am pretty good at.

OK, back to my breadboard, my power supply is p1ssing me off.

I went here: http://www.ukalumni.net/s/1052/semi-blank-noimg.aspx?sid=1052&gid=1&pgid=6&cid=41

His name shows up but without being a member/alum that's all it shows.

[hskwarrior]

notice how he dyes his hair brown to make his small town midwest students feel "comfortable".

Sin The is the GrandMaster of Mullets. mully mully mully

[hskwarrior]

Grandmaster Sin Thé continued his education at the University of Kentucky and had nearly completed his Master's Degree in Nuclear Engineering when Ie Chang Ming died in 1976 at the age of 96.

almost but no cigar.

[Syn7]

You can also go to the UK college of engineering and search there. All I can prove is that he did attend UK at some point and enrolled in at least 1 class.

Still doesn't address the NE question. I haven't seen anything to suggest it ever existed. Granted I didn't give it much time, but I should have atleast found proof of existence.

[Syn7]

Also, I can only confirm that he attended for one year. 1970. And that is UK, not the College of Engineering. Could have been anything. He could have enrolled in eng-lit and quit after a week.

I guess you could go to an alum forum and ask somebody to check for you. Just say so and so says he did this, can you confirm? no details.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I can't find myself on the alumni section of either of my two places of graduation where I earned 2 bachelors degrees and a masters (all top notch schools [one is 63rd in national rankings]). You have to keep paying into the alumni association and updating your info to remain on the lists.;) I always hang up the phone before they start grubbing for dough, or I throw away the mail inserts.

I can only find myself on my masters website because of my Master's Thesis.

Not saying that one or the other side is true/false. Just saying that your criterion for truth and falsity is waaaaay short of the rod, buddy.

[shen ku]

my understanding was that the NE program was at Oakridge, TN. I do not live in lexington but i have spoke with people in my area that went to UK at that time, people that have nothing to do with SD. Each person on different accounts had a story of sin the, over different years of attendance at UK. Of course thats just people stories of their years there.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Here's why I think SD's Tang Lang Quan is "made-up," without even considering your teacher "Gif" (taken from a no-budget storytelling DVD that had no martial arts correlation except for the background stories/myths GM Sin was relating on the DVDs).

1) It contains entire sequences of movements from "Lohan Quan."

2) "Lohan Quan" should not be considered a mantis style form because it's a Lohan/Arhat form at base---not a mantis form.

3) People who later learned Tang Lang Quan likely saw the two likenesses between the two forms because Tang Lang Quan borrows from Lohan Quan's sequences, and therefore inferred that the former was a precursor to the latter. They had to learn Lohan Quan before they learned Tang Lang Quan, and so one form was seen as "higher" in skill prerequisites, and thus as more important. TLQ is difficult (72 kicks), and thus requires a killer cardio base. It also tends to look quite bad when performed by those who just learned it or those who don't have the legs for it. (in fact, what perplexes me is not the hand motions, but the lack thereof---which is also why I didn't understand the student video posted earlier, which had big arm motions I'd never seen).

4) More than likely, the logic changed the transmission of the form until Lohan Quan became a "mantis" form.


Just my inferrence. But you know how far inductive logic can go---not very far at all.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Even so. One can also note that forms like Jeet Kuen and Lian Wu Zhang contain sequences taken from the short forms---or vice versa (hard to say).


Short form #17, Short form #18, Short forms 1-6, etc.



This is also why the system works. It reinforces the basic sequences that it teaches, and its applications are rooted in 30 chinna, 10 ippons, 10 street-fighting techniques, and the sparring sequences. Even if these portions of hte forms are "made-up" to cover memory gaps, they tend to work.

Or, the basic "short forms" are key sections taken out of forms that all students later learn.

Everyone learns the core curriculum in the first year of study. Everything after that builds upon the core. If I had to guess, the core also changed the way forms were taught, or even influenced the development of the system to reflect the core.

[Snipsky]

posted by shaolin wookie on his youtube account

I agree. The timing on the punches themselves is what needs a lot of work in my opinion. And the form, too. I've gotten better at getting my body into the waist chops, and some of the momentum shifts, but timing is still tough to gauge. I'm still getting used to the idea of an internal rhythm in forms. I figure with some more practice, I can get this thing pretty solid for a dude without usual 7star foundations.

tis is the mindset of Shaolin Do. wolves pulling the wool down on the eyes.

the next comment was posted by a CLFSEAN. sneaky people. i no like.


Not bad at all... your Nothern Shaolin time paid off in a lot of respects on this & your daggers. It's still needing more work on the broken timing & sequencing that 7 Star uses, but nicely done over all. Take the belt off and embroidery off the jacket & you'd be a passing Praying Mantis player at a intermediate level that's starting to get the idea. Seriously... that's not any kind of slam.

[Drake]

Today nobody took enemy air seriously, so a lot of soldiers "died". While these prissy pretty princesses poke at the air gingerly, with a smile on their face, as if they are in in the joke, real warriors are tired and exhausted in the desert of Ft Irwin, hunting each other both day and night over rugged terrain.

Enjoy the Burger King mantis. I'm heading back out to train people to be effective and frightening killers.

[Empty_Cup]

Today nobody took enemy air seriously, so a lot of soldiers "died". While these prissy pretty princesses poke at the air gingerly, with a smile on their face, as if they are in in the joke, real warriors are tired and exhausted in the desert of Ft Irwin, hunting each other both day and night over rugged terrain.

Enjoy the Burger King mantis. I'm heading back out to train people to be effective and frightening killers.

If you're training real soldiers, you should probably be showing them how to fire a gun.

[Drake]

If you're training real soldiers, you should probably be showing them how to fire a gun.

Guns? We're using tanks, artillery, and airstrikes, bro.

Firing their M4s should have happened months ago during individual level training.

[bawang]

Today nobody took enemy air seriously, so a lot of soldiers "died". While these prissy pretty princesses poke at the air gingerly, with a smile on their face, as if they are in in the joke, real warriors are tired and exhausted in the desert of Ft Irwin, hunting each other both day and night over rugged terrain.

Enjoy the Burger King mantis. I'm heading back out to train people to be effective and frightening killers.

you are indeed a man of great honah

*rubs testicles

[Shaolin Wookie]

tis is the mindset of Shaolin Do. wolves pulling the wool down on the eyes.

the next comment was posted by a CLFSEAN. sneaky people. i no like.
You're right. I see that now. I quit and hereby renounce everything I learned...or didn't learn as it were.

Thank you. And may god have mercy on my soul.

[kwaichang]

There is a woman that identified GMThe as the person she lived next to in Oak Ridge Tn and when he was at the Nuclear plant and school doing his Nuclear E thing. I do not have her name but do have it from a very reliable source. KC

[MasterKiller]

This is more realistic...
http://i.imgur.com/7f5zB.gif

than this...
http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

[kwaichang]

Woe to those who judge by one thing, If the glove dont fit you must acquit. So much taken out of context. its crazy man crazy. KC:):D:cool:

[Judge Pen]

This is more realistic...
http://i.imgur.com/7f5zB.gif

than this...
http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif

Dude, this is not a fair comparison. That kid was way younger than Sin The.

[hskwarrior]

Woe to those who judge by one thing, If the glove dont fit you must acquit. So much taken out of context. its crazy man crazy. KC

you sound mad dude. why you mad? i bet you think we should just support the thievery and shadiness going on in Shaolin Do huh?

[kwaichang]

Nah not Mad but there is all kinds of assumptions going on. The testimony is the only proof of Lying everything else is hearsay, you dont know what was learned or stolen or video or book of origin . KC

[Drake]

Nah not Mad but there is all kinds of assumptions going on. The testimony is the only proof of Lying everything else is hearsay, you dont know what was learned or stolen or video or book of origin . KC

No, he DEFINITELY stole the 5 Animals form. That's pretty obvious. It's also pretty obvious that a person couldn't hurt a brulé with that BS "mantis"

[kwaichang]

Published in a book and reading the book and doing the form is Stealing ? We do not know if he got permission to teach it or not. Or even if he needed permission. As far as the Mantis , you are speaking of one clip, I have the whole Mantis system on DVD i may down load some of it and let you guys see the difference . t would hurt. KC Love ya man luv Ya. :o:D:eek::)

[Drake]

Published in a book and reading the book and doing the form is Stealing ? We do not know if he got permission to teach it or not. Or even if he needed permission. As far as the Mantis , you are speaking of one clip, I have the whole Mantis system on DVD i may down load some of it and let you guys see the difference . t would hurt. KC Love ya man luv Ya. :o:D:eek::)

No. Marketing it as your own is stealing. Fraud, really, if you want to be technical.

Funny how supposed kung fu fighters rush to the defense of dishonor. No wonder the **** is dying a slow, ugly, and pathetic death. Because people like you defend scum out of your own cowardice.

[kwaichang]

I am not defending any ONE just that if you cant prove something for sure how do you know what is going on. People like Me I would defend you if something was or is not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know what I am doing about it but all you do is spread accusation w/o proof. KC once u learn it it is yours.

[Drake]

I am not defending any ONE just that if you cant prove something for sure how do you know what is going on. People like Me I would defend you if something was or is not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know what I am doing about it but all you do is spread accusation w/o proof. KC once u learn it it is yours.

So if I learn how to play Van Halen, I can make albums and sell them playing their music?

[MasterKiller]

Here's a pic I found of KC.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web03/2012/10/22/13/anigif_enhanced-buzz-20570-1350927804-1.gif

[Lucas]

the thing i have issue with, in regards to all these forms and sin the, is that in his biography on his site he makes claim that he is the ONLY shaolin grandmaster...also that he MASTERED 900 forms. i have seen below intermediate demonstrations by him. so he did not master those forms. he doesnt even understand several that I have seen.

plus if he felt this overwhelming duty to shaolin to quit his engineering career, as his biography claims, then he would have moved to shaolin and devoted his life to the shaolin. period. instead he moved to the usa lied about himself and milked the stupid americans.

[Shaolin Wookie]

A man takes a ma seminar and learns a form. He practices that form and uses his previous training to understand its principles. Later, he teaches what he knows to someone else. Did he steal the form that he paid to learn? Of course not. And he has every right to call it his own. But I agree that he shouldn't misrepresent it's origins. If I buy a coke, but someone gives me Pepsi in a coke can, then it's fraud.

Doesn't mean the Pepsi can't quench thirst, but it still isn't a coke.

[hskwarrior]

Published in a book and reading the book and doing the form is Stealing ?

it amazes me when people open their mouth and nothing but NONSENSE spews out.

Buy a book belonging to a certain kung fu family, repackaging it, changing a move or two, lie about how it was learned, and giving it a false history is..........


THIEVERY........MUTHAFUKKIN THIEVERY!!!!!!! NASTY DOWN RIGHT DISPICABLE UNDERHANDED CHEATERY.

AND YOU DUMB WHITEBOYS FELL FOR JOE JOE THE DOG FACE BOY AS BEING A SHAOLIN MONK BY A GUY WHO NEVER REALLY LEARNED KUNG FU FROM ANYONE.

[Lucas]

A man takes a ma seminar and learns a form. He practices that form and uses his previous training to understand its principles. Later, he teaches what he knows to someone else. Did he steal the form that he paid to learn? Of course not. And he has every right to call it his own. But I agree that he shouldn't misrepresent it's origins. If I buy a coke, but someone gives me Pepsi in a coke can, then it's fraud.

Doesn't mean the Pepsi can't quench thirst, but it still isn't a coke.

It becomes a matter of misrepresentation if you are talking about the quality of forms i have seen The perform on videos.

its all about integrity. a man with integrity would not go pay some cash, spend a couple days trying to learn a form, and then teach it as an authority on the material.

maybe if he said 'i spent 1 or 2 days with an instructor on this entire form. this is the best i can figure it out, and here is how i remember the movements being performed, but remember i probably dont know the full details or even have a complete understanding of this material, so take it for what it is. incomplete.'

[bawang]

But I agree that he shouldn't misrepresent it's origins.

then dont defend the fraud sin the.

the thing i have issue with, in regards to all these forms and sin the, is that in his biography on his site he makes claim that he is the ONLY shaolin grandmaster

does it really surprise you coming from the mouth of a pathological liar?

[Lucas]

then dont defend the fraud sin the.


does it really surprise you coming from the mouth of a pathological liar?

not really. btw i burned all the southern style extra crispy with napalm just to be sure. even the ashes are still on fire

[-N-]

This is more realistic...
http://i.imgur.com/7f5zB.gif

than this...
http://i.imgur.com/NBRoK.gif


Woe to those who judge by one thing, If the glove dont fit you must acquit. So much taken out of context.

If you understand TCMA, you can tell a lot from very little. There is much more than just one thing wrong.

MK is absolutely correct. The Dragon Baby clip shows real kung fu details.

Baby yields to the attack and shifts back to horse stance while controlling the attacking hand.

His control motion sinks and further extends the attacker.

Dragon lose balance forward and down, and Baby reverses the wrist control to unbalance Dragon up and backwards which forces him to open up his center. This is classic Chin Na. All the way down, or all the way up, and follow up.

Baby uses transition from horse stance to full bow and arrow stance to power his attack. (something that has been shown poorly in all of the SD clips I've seen)

Baby has good coordination of leg and torso turning power and also uses sinking force on his attack against Dragon's rising off balance position.

On the "Mantis" clip, I already posted:


Look when he kicks. He has no focus or awareness of his hands. They sort of just flail around.

Basic beginner mistake to forget one thing while doing something else. I yell at students for less.

Also, Mantis is aggressive and tactical. It controls while attacking. This is fundamental to Mantis.

His attacks are just a kick and random poking strung together. He has no controlling techniques to support his attacks.

This is made up by someone that doesn't understand Mantis, and maybe even not TCMA. Just look at the body mechanics.

Aside from showing incorrect use of fingers in the mantis claw, at the beginning of the clip he gives up wrist control to throw his right hand attack and right kick.

Mantis would never do that. Also the right hand and right kick attack would be almost simultaneous. And the hand attack would have much more extension.

He is almost square on to his opponent with no turning, and his hand attacks fall short. And again, not coordinated with controlling motions.

Also, Mantis would not hesitate like that between the kick and followup techniques, especially with the hands down.

And to have the hands down and to continue with 3 single mid level attacks... :rolleyes:

[Syn7]

not really. btw i burned all the southern style extra crispy with napalm just to be sure. even the ashes are still on fire

Real napalm or did you just stir packing peanuts into gasoline again Lucas?

[Syn7]

So if I learn how to play Van Halen, I can make albums and sell them playing their music?

I already went for the IP angle. They no understand!

[Lucas]

Real napalm or did you just stir packing peanuts into gasoline again Lucas?

dont give away my poor mans james bond secrets! and they were old styrofoam cups from hooters

[Syn7]

You should try thermite, that'll wreck a chicken real quick :D Grab some mag strips and you're golden!!!

[bawang]

not really. btw i burned all the southern style extra crispy with napalm just to be sure. even the ashes are still on fire

good. eat the ashes.

[Syn7]

good. eat the ashes.

Is that wombat iron tongue for beginners?

[tattooedmonk]

This couple second clip was taken from / with in the context of telling a story about the mantis system. When doing a montage/ title sequence and the like it wouldn't make sense to use any actual ma moves like you were instructing anyone in the principles of mantis. I can tell you from experiencing mantis from inside SD and outside SD , that SKT knows what he is talking about when he has taught the material, whether he learned it a month before or or 40 years ago. Surprisingly enough he takes his martial arts, nutrition and training very seriously and could out train all of you.

He is actually a very good teacher and knows real martial arts. I am still waiting for anyone to show me how bad a$$ they are and walk in to one of the schools that has a good teacher and talk ****... Try a master... Not just SD, any other school that you elitist find to be less than.


Sin the lives ten minutes from me , I could arrange a meeting with anyone that would like to meet him and address these issues and questions.

As for the websites it's all misquoted information and a marketing plan that back fired. I could tell you all more details... but its like casting pearls before the swine.

[Syn7]

Do you really think anyone is willing to travel in order to make a point to people nobody cares about?

A marketing plan based on bullsh1t is dishonourable and anyone who defends that is defending dishonour. Regardless of whether the style is effective or not, whether the GM can bang or not. We cannot settle the latter on an internet forum. Give it up. What can be settled is whether or not the system is run by an honourable man, or not. Clearly we found our answer over 900 pages ago. At this point we're just tapping on the aquarium glass to **** off the fish and watch the reaction. You are nothing but a subject as far as I'm concerned. I find Stockholm syndrome fascinating.

[hskwarrior]

This couple second clip was taken from / with in the context of telling a story about the mantis system

you muthafukkers don't know anything about REAL mantis. you guys are a bunch of people who learn from seminars and books and vcd and dvds and youtubes.

you perform like a bunch of whiteboys who has never seen real gung fu up close and personal.

no one from the styles your lineage claims to teach agree's with what you put out there.

bunch of pretenders


Surprisingly enough he takes his martial arts, nutrition and training very seriously and could out train all of you.

DREAMER. CULT LEADER. FAKE.

TELL ME WHAT THE FUK IS A MONKEY BEAK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

KARATE GUYS IN KARATE GI'S WEARING KARATE BELTS TALKING TEACHING THE MYSTICAL MONKEY BEAKS. MAYBE SIN THE'S SIGUNG HAD ONE HELLUVA NOSE ON HIM AND THATS WHERE "MONKEY BEAK" CAME FROM. BUT YOU ****ING IDIOTS WILL NEVER IN YOUR SHAOLIN DO-NUTS LIVES LIVE DOWN "MONKEY BEAKS".

YOU WILL ALWAYS BE KNOWN AS THE SCHOOL THE TEACHES THE MONKEY BEAK STYLE. THE MOST REDICULOUS THING ANYONE ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET HAS EVER HEARD.

I WONDER IF MONKEY BEAKS ARE RELATED TO THE MONTAUK MONSTER?

[tattooedmonk]

Before I thought you had legitimate issue , now I realize you are just a fucling troll.

[tattooedmonk]

Any of you are invited to so cal to see me and what I do or do not know. send you home with a lesson or three and maybe a free meal.:D:eek::cool:

[tattooedmonk]

you muthafukkers don't know anything about REAL mantis. you guys are a bunch of people who learn from seminars and books and vcd and dvds and youtubes.

you perform like a bunch of whiteboys who has never seen real gung fu up close and personal.

no one from the styles your lineage claims to teach agree's with what you put out there.

bunch of pretenders



DREAMER. CULT LEADER. FAKE.

TELL ME WHAT THE FUK IS A MONKEY BEAK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

KARATE GUYS IN KARATE GI'S WEARING KARATE BELTS TALKING TEACHING THE MYSTICAL MONKEY BEAKS. MAYBE SIN THE'S SIGUNG HAD ONE HELLUVA NOSE ON HIM AND THATS WHERE "MONKEY BEAK" CAME FROM. BUT YOU ****ING IDIOTS WILL NEVER IN YOUR SHAOLIN DO-NUTS LIVES LIVE DOWN "MONKEY BEAKS".

YOU WILL ALWAYS BE KNOWN AS THE SCHOOL THE TEACHES THE MONKEY BEAK STYLE. THE MOST REDICULOUS THING ANYONE ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET HAS EVER HEARD.

I WONDER IF MONKEY BEAKS ARE RELATED TO THE MONTAUK MONSTER?

Do you ever get off the rag?! just continuously bleeding c-unt.

[hskwarrior]

Before I thought you had legitimate issue , now I realize you are just a fucling troll.

i will so OWN being a troll on this one with a huge smile on my face :D
because i am so happy not to be from Shaolin Do.


Do you ever get off the rag?! just continuously bleeding c-unt.

brainwashed bumpkin. LOL.

[bawang]

its better for sin the to milk those hillbillies than to have them contaminate the real shaolin.


even if they trained real shaolin and real clf they would still hop around doing those floppy rabbit foot kicks.

[hskwarrior]

its better for sin the to milk those hillbillies than to have them contaminate the real shaolin.


even if they trained real shaolin and real clf they would still hop around doing those floppy rabbit foot kicks.

all the stuff that tells us that they were improperly trained :)

[Syn7]

Any of you are invited to so cal to see me and what I do or do not know. send you home with a lesson or three and maybe a free meal.:D:eek::cool:

Another blatant assumption. You step on the reals with that attitude and you'll get set back, turned out and be walking the line real quick. I'm not saying you can or cannot fight, I just know you don't have the heart to take violence to the bitter end. It shows in spades, son! What will you do when your mouth signs a cheque your ass can't cash and you end up strapped to a chair with an iron ducktaped to your head? Talk more?

[bawang]

theres something about the loose floppy rabbit foot kick done in a karate gi that unsettles me. u know what im talking about? when those shaolindo guys just flails their foot out, and their foot is wobbling in the air.

and the rhythm is like square dancing. one two. one two.

[hskwarrior]

and i'll be the first to say if Shaolin Do wouldn't have boosted our form, i wouldn't be taking bad about them today. instead considering what i was telling them, they tried to flip it, twist it, turn it upside down n inside out in order to justify their possession of our form. for me, this isn't WU DE. Wu De would mean they would apologize for their illgotten form. they would condemn any future absorption of kung fu that doesn't belong to them.

But sadly, i don't see this coming from the majority of SD people here. a few vaguely admit to their possible boosting of our form and no further.

i feel if SD wants respect, then they should abandon that karate gi and put on a typical gung fu uniform, step up their games INTENSELY START OVER IN SPITE OF THEIR DARK SHADY PAST.

UNTIL I GET AN APOLOGY FOR THE OUTRIGHT THIEVERY OF MY LINEAGES FORM, I FEEL I CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T SHOW ANY RESPECT IN THE FACE OF SUCH BLATANT DISRESPECT.

WHO AM I? I AM A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE HUNG SING KWOON WITH AUTHORITY TO SPEAK FOR IT. THE OWNERS OF THAT SPECIFIC SHAOLIN 5 ANIMAL FORM.

[bawang]

dude, they will never learn real kung fu. the whole reason shaolin do attracts those people is because kung fu is too *****y.

shaolin do is hillbilly-friendly. its stereotypical and degrading enough not to take those rednecks out of their comfort zone.

[Syn7]

Just got some Jack Herer. First time hittin that strain. It's good kung fu!!!

[tattooedmonk]

Another blatant assumption. You step on the reals with that attitude and you'll get set back, turned out and be walking the line real quick. I'm not saying you can or cannot fight, I just know you don't have the heart to take violence to the bitter end. It shows in spades, son! What will you do when your mouth signs a cheque your ass can't cash and you end up strapped to a chair with an iron ducktaped to your head? Talk more?

Out up or shut up douche bag. I get everything I need and more.

[hskwarrior]

theres something about the loose floppy rabbit foot kick done in a karate gi that unsettles me. U know what im talking about? When those shaolindo guys just flails their foot out, and their foot is wobbling in the air.

And the rhythm is like square dancing. One two. One two.

they suffer from the white man disease. And yeah i know what you're talking about. Its funny to watch.

[tattooedmonk]

Trolls wow.....

[bawang]

Out up or shut up douche bag. I get everything I need and more.

you get nothing. your entire life's passion was a lie. a life wasted, a chasing after the wind.

[tattooedmonk]

you get nothing. your entire life's passion was a lie. a life wasted, a chasing after the wind.
You don't know me, don't even assume to know me, pillow fukcer

[hskwarrior]

out up or shut up douche bag. I get everything i need and more.

answer his question b1tch made!!!!

[hskwarrior]

just got some jack herer. First time hittin that strain. It's good kung fu!!!

pass that over here man!!!!! Affwreck over here man. (affgoo trainwreck)

[bawang]

You don't know me, don't even assume to know me, pillow fukcer

i know you. i can see inside you.

[Syn7]

Into your soul......


My point is that you shouldn't make threats or offer challenge matches to anons on the internet. To me, that just seems profoundly stupid. Seriously. Challenge matches? :rolleyes:


This whole thread is about a big lie. It is all suspect and anyone who defends any of it is suspect. Some will stay quiet, some will get a grip on reality. And then others simply confirm the original hypothesis.

[tattooedmonk]

and i'll be the first to say if Shaolin Do wouldn't have boosted our form, i wouldn't be taking bad about them today. instead considering what i was telling them, they tried to flip it, twist it, turn it upside down n inside out in order to justify their possession of our form. for me, this isn't WU DE. Wu De would mean they would apologize for their illgotten form. they would condemn any future absorption of kung fu that doesn't belong to them.

But sadly, i don't see this coming from the majority of SD people here. a few vaguely admit to their possible boosting of our form and no further.

i feel if SD wants respect, then they should abandon that karate gi and put on a typical gung fu uniform, step up their games INTENSELY START OVER IN SPITE OF THEIR DARK SHADY PAST.

UNTIL I GET AN APOLOGY FOR THE OUTRIGHT THIEVERY OF MY LINEAGES FORM, I FEEL I CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T SHOW ANY RESPECT IN THE FACE OF SUCH BLATANT DISRESPECT.

WHO AM I? I AM A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE HUNG SING KWOON WITH AUTHORITY TO SPEAK FOR IT. THE OWNERS OF THAT SPECIFIC SHAOLIN 5 ANIMAL FORM.

I sent you a years supply of tampons

[tattooedmonk]

i know you. i can see inside you.

That's hilarious, all you can see is the inside of your own colon.

[tattooedmonk]

Into your soul......


My point is that you shouldn't make threats or offer challenge matches to anons on the internet. To me, that just seems profoundly stupid. Seriously. Challenge matches? :rolleyes:


This whole thread is about a big lie. It is all suspect and anyone who defends any of it is suspect. Some will stay quiet, some will get a grip on reality. And then others simply confirm the original hypothesis.
What I said is that if anyone wants to prove anything one way or another eventually there will have to be a physical encounter either to talk or whatever to find resolutions, if there is any , to any if these issues , dumba$$es. F ing trolls.

[bawang]

That's hilarious, all you can see is the inside of your own colon.

watch your language, i find it offensive.

i think you need a time out. go to your room, boy.

[tattooedmonk]

That's not what this threads about... Shaolin Do is for real. But what part if it!? :D:eek::cool:

[tattooedmonk]

please watch your language, i find it offensive.

I find you offensive....:eek::D:cool:

[Syn7]

I find you offensive....:eek::D:cool:

Is that what keeps you from being honest?

[MasterKiller]

Sin the lives ten minutes from me , I could arrange a meeting with anyone that would like to meet him and address these issues and questions.

Ha! You wish! Aren't you one of the lost boys who isn't allowed to call what you do "shaolin do" or else you'll be sued?

[tattooedmonk]

Is that what keeps you from being honest?

I have no issue with being honest. Although I have done things that are dishonest in my past.

[bawang]

That's not what this threads about... Shaolin Do is for real. But what part if it!? :D:eek::cool:

the part where sin the preys on the fantasy of small town hillbillies to be kwai chang

[tattooedmonk]

Ha! You wish! Aren't you one of the lost boys who isn't allowed to call what you do "shaolin do" or else you'll be sued?uhh no, I have had my differences with Jason Carr , the Soards, that's no secret.

I wouldn't call anything I do shaolin do.:D;):eek::cool:

Don't act like you know me.

Oh wait, aren't you the guy that said that a back leg knee was like a lead hand jab!?:rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

the part where sin the preys on the fantasy of small town hillbillies to be kwai chang

With very little information and very little fact , how did you come to this ridiculous conclusion!?

[bawang]

With very little information and very little fact , how did you come to this ridiculous conclusion!?

did i hit a nerve

[Syn7]

uhh no, I have had my differences with Jason Carr , the Soards, that's no secret.

I wouldn't call anything I do shaolin do.:D;):eek::cool:

Don't act like you know me.

Oh wait, aren't you the guy that said that a back leg knee was like a lead hand jab!?:rolleyes:

I like you better when you're angry and/or indignant. That's when you really shine!

[tattooedmonk]

did i hit a nerve

Just having a conversation .:rolleyes:

[Syn7]

Oh, so you did have a time out then! All better now?

[Old Noob]

they suffer from the white man disease. And yeah i know what you're talking about. Its funny to watch.

This is racist. If a white forum member made similar remarks about another race, he'd be banned. Your points aren't all bad but you're no angel. You've not no call to hold yourself out as honorable when you spew racist vitriol.

[OldandUsed]

@Old Noob....absolutely. Thought I was the only one that thought HSK has crossed the line.

[OTD]

+1 @ Old Noob

[MasterKiller]

uhh no, I have had my differences with Jason Carr , the Soards, that's no secret.
So go talk to your old buddy Sin The and get him to answer a few questions for us here. Since you guys are so tight, should be no problem.



Oh wait, aren't you the guy that said that a back leg knee was like a lead hand jab!?:rolleyes:

Yes, I made that 100% completely accurate statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQF5RKlLio

[tattooedmonk]

So go talk to your old buddy Sin The and get him to answer a few questions for us here. Since you guys are so tight, should be no problem.




Yes, I made that 100% completely accurate statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQF5RKlLio
Already did!:eek::D:cool:



Ha Ha ha Hahahahahahaha!:rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

Oh, so you did have a time out then! All better now?

Troll......

[tattooedmonk]

+1 @ Old Noob

+ one more

[kwaichang]

THE BIGGEST ERROR A PERSON CAN MAKE IS TO THINK SOME ONE HAS NO SKILL FROM WHAT THEY VIEW ON THE INTERNET OR BECAUSE OF THE STYLE THEY STUDY.
If one does this they are certainly going to be surprised.. Not in a good way. KC

[pazman]

Troll......

Shaolin-Do is the troll, making the longest thread on KFM in the Shaolin forums, without being related to Shaolin or CMA.

Well played, Sin The!:)

[tattooedmonk]

You Obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about.

[tattooedmonk]

THE BIGGEST ERROR A PERSON CAN MAKE IS TO THINK SOME ONE HAS NO SKILL FROM WHAT THEY VIEW ON THE INTERNET OR BECAUSE OF THE STYLE THEY STUDY.
If one does this they are certainly going to be surprised.. Not in a good way. KC

No doubt, none of these pu$$ies will back up their talk. Cowards.

[kwaichang]

Hey man you mean without a doubt in reference to what. BTW how you been doing? KC:)

[Snipsky]

No doubt, none of these pu$$ies will back up their talk. Cowards.

whats even funnier than this is you dude. you are talking all that sh1t behind your computer screen acting like a little teenager that never got his dik wet.

the fakeness that comes from shaolin do is outstanding. keep hiding behind your screenname. and here you are calling people cowards.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its an epic thread, epic in its longevity, epic in its stupidity and epic in the sheer delusions posted on here.
Hilarious when viewed from the outside but still with an element of sadness in regards to how lost some people are.

[tattooedmonk]

whats even funnier than this is you dude. you are talking all that sh1t behind your computer screen acting like a little teenager that never got his dik wet.

the fakeness that comes from shaolin do is outstanding. keep hiding behind your screenname. and here you are calling people cowards.
That's rich , snipsky. My name is Mark, 30 years experience in the martial arts 21 years in chinese arts.

Yeah I got my introduction the Chinese arts from through SD , so what @$$ munch.

Anymore info you need just ask . Phine number, email, website address....I have always been open to question and normal discussions. Not your normal bullsh!t like you find around here

[tattooedmonk]

Hey man you mean without a doubt in reference to what. BTW how you been doing? KC:)

Yep! I have been better and been worse. You!?

[Snipsky]

That's rich , snipsky. My name is Mark, 30 years experience in the martial arts 21 years in chinese arts.

Yeah I got my introduction the Chinese arts from through SD , so what @$$ munch.

Anymore info you need just ask . Phine number, email, website address....I have always been open to question and normal discussions. Not your normal bullsh!t like you find around here

don't talk. you must be about it. mark. that fits nicely. cause you are definitely a "mark" Mark.

[hskwarrior]

Anymore info you need just ask . Phine number, email, website address....I have always been open to question and normal discussions. Not your normal bullsh!t like you find around here

where is ANY video of YOU doing something...LOL.....MARK. asher. LOL. is that you Mark? Mark Asher? :D

[Snipsky]

Oh no....really? thanks hsk.

mark is this you? :confused:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/377195_520582614624744_1018028588_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6829_100848046598205_6025336_n.jpg

[tattooedmonk]

where is ANY video of YOU doing something...LOL.....MARK. asher. LOL. is that you Mark? Mark Asher? :D

Hahahah a. You guys are so funny. Asher!? Uhh no

[hskwarrior]

don't worry mark....we all have pics like that

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/299379_10150294198902732_549779504_n.jpg

[hskwarrior]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/545046_10150972956519860_1522648359_n.jpg

[tattooedmonk]

don't talk. you must be about it. mark. that fits nicely. cause you are definitely a "mark" Mark.
Ahhh you found something in my name to poke fun at.....bullied much as a child or are you being bullied! in your real life that all you have to do in all your spare time is sit here on the Internet and try and break people down? lacking in socials skills much? The half a dozen or so nit wits , like yourself, around here just make this place sad and pathetic.

[hskwarrior]

Ahhh you found something in my name to poke fun at.....bullied much as a child or are you being bullied! in your real life that all you have to do in all your spare time is sit here on the Internet and try and break people down? lacking in socials skills much? The half a dozen or so nit wits , like yourself, around here just make this place sad and pathetic.

then why are you still here? LMAO. i knew you kentuck's love that S&M stuff. ya'll folks is a tad bit strange.

[OldandUsed]

Yeah, almost as bad as west coasties.

[tattooedmonk]

then why are you still here? LMAO. i knew you kentuck's love that S&M stuff. ya'll folks is a tad bit strange.what a dum@$$, not only did he try to insult the great state of Kentucky but doesn't even realize I am in so cal. What an idiot.:rolleyes::D

[tattooedmonk]

Yeah, almost as bad as west coasties.

We are worse!;):eek::D

[hskwarrior]

Yeah, almost as bad as west coasties.

the west coast is the BEST COAST. raise up ya cup n toast!!!

to the bay that is. and NOT Tampa bay!!!!

[hskwarrior]

what a dum@$$, not only did he try to insult the great state of Kentucky but doesn't even realize I am in so cal. What an idiot.

whats so great about kentucky? one of my former students was from there. then he came to the bay where the real sh1t is.

hell is south, heaven is north. the north is where you want to be

***** your ******* claims 30 years in kung fu but doesn't have one single video of himself that he's proud of. and who's the ******* now? we know there's a reason there isn't any video of you. u suck thats y

[kwaichang]

TTm dont you see that they are just a joke, all they have in theirlife is cutting some one down. I always say let those w/o sin cast the 1st stone. People who degrade others are a joke. Dont fall into their trap.
Even if we were to show that SD for the most part has full CMA origin they would still find something to harass about. SD has legitimate CMA origin and forms were they copied or stolen no one knows for sure. Thats the name of that tune. KC:D

[tattooedmonk]

It's cool. I don't give a sh!t either way what these guys say, I just don't understand why we just can't have a normal discussion rather than this other bullsh!t. That's all. No biggie :eek::D:cool:

[Judge Pen]

Mark, they make a point. Do you demo/video your understanding of CMA?

[hskwarrior]

It's cool. I don't give a sh!t either way what these guys say, I just don't understand why we just can't have a normal discussion rather than this other bullsh!t. That's all. No biggie

the sickening part is you want to sit down and discuss kung fu, while the rest of us look at you and know you're not really doing kung fu. and we know you guys didn't officially learn all those different styles as the only teacher or found you have is Sin The. where is sin the's sisooks? his gung fu brothers from china?

why should you be treated with respect when we all know the primary learning source for your school comes from books,vcds, dvds, and youtube. for some reason you guys blindly follow Sin The even after it was proven he taught you material that HE made up and told YOU GUYS that it was taught to HIM by some imaginary people. yeah, there was that hairy guy, but why isn't there a SINGLE photo of him doing kung fu? posing in kung fu? you can't say because there weren't any cameras around because you guys do have pics of that hairy dude.

NO ONE WILL GIVE RESPECT TO YOU. earn it. and from my side of things, you guys have a LOT to learn. IMHO SD needs to revamp everything they say about their history. Claim to be an offshoot or hybrid system. stop talking about the hairy monk and the shaolin temple that just didn't exist between 1850-1900's.

Realize as the world gets to know your school so if you have some ill gotten material and try to pass it off as the real deal the martial arts community will know the moment they see your material.

its up to you guys. if you want to be the joke of the community that's your business. if not, step your games up by 10 fold. anything less is a waste of your time.

[kwaichang]

There was Ie Chang Ming and others listed i cant remember their names though. He learned some from them . How much who really knows, I know u guys do not think much of GMThe but I have seen some great MA and when he was teaching some of the stuff he exhibited real skill. I remember Snake Pa Kua , and Double fans and many others, say what you want he had skills. Does he now well for a 64 year old the answer is YES. KC I am not defending just stating Facts. KC

[hskwarrior]

There was Ie Chang Ming and others listed i cant remember their names though. He learned some from them . How much who really knows, I know u guys do not think much of GMThe but I have seen some great MA and when he was teaching some of the stuff he exhibited real skill. I remember Snake Pa Kua , and Double fans and many others, say what you want he had skills. Does he now well for a 64 year old the answer is YES. KC I am not defending just stating Facts. KC

so you went out and researched this beyond what Sin The told you? if you did, will you share the links and material to prove what you found? if you can't get passed Sin The in regards to history, don't waste your time.

i beg to differ on what you see as fact in regards to Sin. the only thing is, if he DID have the skill you mention, then we would all have no other choice but to agree. it would be easily recognizable.

you say sin is 64. my sifu is 67 and forgive me, but Sin The is no match when it comes to forms.

regardless of what i say here, i do find it sad that i had to act in such a manner and wish i didn't have to. yet, i'm not a push over and will never let a man strike me without responding back. i look at the outright theivery of my lineages form in the same manner as you striking me. i'll repeat, if shalin do never boosted my lineages form, i wouldn't be saying anything about you period.

[kwaichang]

My foo pa he will be 70 in March . My bad, also you have never seen him do a form for real only clips and demos. He is better than what you think. Still just the facts. :)KC

[kwaichang]

Dont hate the man hate the Sin, pardon the pun. If in fact he lifted it then my appology , I currently do not perform that form. I will down load a form for you to see . I am at work so it will be this week end. KC

[hskwarrior]

My foo pa he will be 70 in March . My bad, also you have never seen him do a form for real only clips and demos. He is better than what you think. Still just the facts. KC

so you mean he gives a bullsh1t demo in his demonstrations but only lets YOU GUYS see how he really moves behind closed doors?


Dont hate the man hate the Sin, pardon the pun. If in fact he lifted it then my appology , I currently do not perform that form. I will down load a form for you to see . I am at work so it will be this week end. KC

i don't hate the man. i hate what he did. i hate what is continuing to take place in shaolin do schools.

[Lucas]

i dont doubt the guy has some skills. ive seen his younger photos, he was definately in good shape. and if you practice martial arts for a long time, you will get skills. but to claim to be the one and only grand master of all shaolin is simply absurd. unquestionably so. even if that were the case, which it isnt, you should probably be spending your life working and rebuilding at shaolin to claim that title. what do you suppose actual masters at shaolin temple would say if he went there and was like, 'oh ya by the way you guys i am the one and only shaolin grandmaster in the whole world.'

[hskwarrior]

so you went out and researched this beyond what Sin The told you? if you did, will you share the links and material to prove what you found? if you can't get passed Sin The in regards to history, don't waste your time.

i asked this because at one point in my own schools history there was a heated debate on the green grass monk here on this forum. everyone thought i would never find anything on the Green Grass Monk yet today i know more about him than anyone else in the CLF world so far and i am a ranked officer of HIS tong that is HQ'd in SF.

see, i've uncovered his real name (which is out there now), his name he used at the shaolin temple, his teachers name, the secret hang signals signifying GGM himself, and have historical cartoonish style drawings depicting him, all the way down to how he got the CHING CHO name.

so what i'm saying is if you can't extend your scope of research further than Sin The, then forget it, accept that he lied and make the best of it.

[kwaichang]

I was never told that , I was told other things though, my beef is the Legal statements more than anything. I do not like lying. But I dont believe all the system was stolen and I dont believe all was lies. I have a PM that tells the teachers of him and what the taught . Thank you to that person. I will dig up some stuff and will put that on here if i am given permission by that person as well. KC:)

[hskwarrior]

I was never told that , I was told other things though, my beef is the Legal statements more than anything. I do not like lying. But I dont believe all the system was stolen and I dont believe all was lies. I have a PM that tells the teachers of him and what the taught . Thank you to that person. I will dig up some stuff and will put that on here if i am given permission by that person as well. KC

u were never told what?

[kwaichang]

He was THE Shaolin GMaster. KC:)

[hskwarrior]

He was THE Shaolin GMaster. KC

come on, lets publicly trace his roots. the only problem is, it can't go back to china because there was never a southern shaolin temple between the 1850's and 1900's. so i think Indonesia is as far as you go back.

[kwaichang]

I wish I could . I some info about that but am not at lib to post. KC

[kwaichang]

Look around page 850 kc:)

[hskwarrior]

I wish I could . I some info about that but am not at lib to post. KC

reason why?

[kwaichang]

From what GMT has told me personally and or from his EM students this is the way it is.
GGMIe traveled through out china prior to his leaving China, prior to that he learned from SKTJ, He moved to Indonesia and taught Chinese only.
GMT became a student at about 6 years old prior to that he trained for about a year with a Sand Burn Teacher from all kinds of warped stories have sprung.
during his latter training years with GGMIe he was introduced to a very good internal stylist {name} ??? JP will tell ya. This is where he learned alot of his Internal stuff from what I am told and have learned.
During his seminars he gives the history part fact and part Legend to the students, he mentions names , dates and style off shoots. Etc.
I have never wanted for history and have been told by GMTh'e that we trace our art to the Shaolin Temple(S) . Not that they came from there, they were just worked on and perfected at one of them. Also I haved learned that much of SD came from military sources, ie: a General this or that that sought refuge in the temple or temples.
When given the hand outs I cross reference the History section of the forms in the hand out and short of a year or two here or there they have been on the money. As far as Tai Chi 24 it is rather modern but traces it self indirectly to Yang Tai Chi and Thus to Chen and thus to the temple. I have read that the Chen Villiage where it was practiced is rather close to a Shaolin Temple and that often the Monks would train in that art.
SD comes from the Temples and China in this way and through time the art has changed much like Funakoshi and his Karate art has transformed into the JKA Karate known today. They dont even look the same as they did in 1950. SD is much the same. I blame this on interpretation , application, and EGO of the teachers that teach. Well I hope none of you found this too boring. While some feel the art lacks this or that I love it I can fight with it and I truly feel that what we do now is a good and Historic thing with good intent from GMTh'e. Thanks KC

I posted this long ago. KC

[MasterKiller]

Already did!:eek::D:cool:



Ha Ha ha Hahahahahahaha!:rolleyes:

Then ask him why I have photos of his teacher and he only has paintings.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5505&d=1256342972

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5504&d=1256342962

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5502&d=1256342937

[kwaichang]

So MK why do you have those pics that man is Chinese right? Is that GMThe's teacher? Yes it is. Is he doing CMA? Oh my my yes he is. KC

[kwaichang]

reason why?

Because the person that sent it to me on a PM is nice enough to do so, i wont disgrace his confidence in me . KC:)

[Judge Pen]

the sickening part is you want to sit down and discuss kung fu, while the rest of us look at you and know you're not really doing kung fu. and we know you guys didn't officially learn all those different styles as the only teacher or found you have is Sin The. where is sin the's sisooks? his gung fu brothers from china?

why should you be treated with respect when we all know the primary learning source for your school comes from books,vcds, dvds, and youtube. for some reason you guys blindly follow Sin The even after it was proven he taught you material that HE made up and told YOU GUYS that it was taught to HIM by some imaginary people. yeah, there was that hairy guy, but why isn't there a SINGLE photo of him doing kung fu? posing in kung fu? you can't say because there weren't any cameras around because you guys do have pics of that hairy dude.

NO ONE WILL GIVE RESPECT TO YOU. earn it. and from my side of things, you guys have a LOT to learn. IMHO SD needs to revamp everything they say about their history. Claim to be an offshoot or hybrid system. stop talking about the hairy monk and the shaolin temple that just didn't exist between 1850-1900's.

Realize as the world gets to know your school so if you have some ill gotten material and try to pass it off as the real deal the martial arts community will know the moment they see your material.

its up to you guys. if you want to be the joke of the community that's your business. if not, step your games up by 10 fold. anything less is a waste of your time.

Well we were talking about the material and teachers/students that still exist in Bandung and whatever it was that they were teaching there.

[Judge Pen]

come on, lets publicly trace his roots. the only problem is, it can't go back to china because there was never a southern shaolin temple between the 1850's and 1900's. so i think Indonesia is as far as you go back.

I agree that Indonesia is as far as we can trace back. I was told that a letter from Ie Chang Ming to Sin The in the 60s refereces some of Ie's travels through China and Korea, but that actual letter has not been prodcued. It may be because it is bull**** or it may be because it contains references to facts that contradict what Sin The is telling.

But your statement is correct as to as far back as we can currently go. Maybe one day we will learn more.

[kwaichang]

NAME A.K.A. SPECIALTY
Previously posted by BQ


Ie Chang Ming (Tie Chang Sang Ren) Herbs & Acupuncture, Iron Bone/palm/shin, Staff, Sword (broad & Jian) Daggers Spear Monkey Drunken Immortals, Se Ch’uan (Snake) Tai Chi Pa Kua Hsing Ie Lu Hsing

Liu Su Peng (Sen Pien Sow) Tai Peng (bird System), Chain Whips Rope Dart

Je Jou (Shiao) Fu Long Fist , Hua, Mantis, Tiger

*Su Te’ Tju Ta (Little Brother) Mien Ch’uan (Cotton Fist), Chi Qong Meditation , Ban Lian Hua Kuen

Tju Ta 1988 Tai Chi festival in mainland China did Dbl Mulan Fan

**Qui Kwong (Liem Qui Qwong) Herbs & Acupuncture Chin Na, Shuai Chao
**Tjie Tiong (Djie Tiong) Tai Chi, Pa Kua Hsing Ie ,Ground Dragon

Here you go now lets research these guys. ? KC

[Judge Pen]

So MK why do you have those pics that man is Chinese right? Is that GMThe's teacher? Yes it is. Is he doing CMA? Oh my my yes he is. KC

Yes, but he is not just teaching Chinese which we were all told. MK, correct me if I'm wrong, but that gentleman claimed this was his teacher, a Dutch, who learned from Ie. If this is true, then it does validate the existence of Sin The's teacher and the proper identification of whatever legitmate material Sin The learned as kung tao.

[MasterKiller]

So MK why do you have those pics that man is Chinese right? Is that GMThe's teacher? Yes it is. Is he doing CMA? Oh my my yes he is. KC

So is Sin The is the one who f@cked it all up, then? Didn't remember that much as an adult, decided to teach for $$ to get people in his fitness gym, then made up/stole the rest of it to keep you guys paying his rent?

[Judge Pen]

These were supposed to be the collegues in Bandung, right?

[MasterKiller]

Yes, but he is not just teaching Chinese which we were all told. MK, correct me if I'm wrong, but that gentleman claimed this was his teacher, a Dutch, who learned from Ie. If this is true, then it does validate the existence of Sin The's teacher and the proper identification of whatever legitmate material Sin The learned as kung tao.

Yeah, he was a Dutch guy working in Indonesia at the time, and took classes with Ie. He said Ie only knew a couple of styles, and there were a bunch of other teachers at that school.

Invalidates all of the "We only teach Chinese" and "we adopted Gis to blend in" rhetoric, too.

[Judge Pen]

So is Sin The is the one who f@cked it all up, then? Didn't remember that much as an adult, decided to teach for $$ to get people in his fitness gym, then made up/stole the rest of it to keep you guys paying his rent?

Yep; pretty much. I think Sin The did teach some legitimate material, but taught it the way he wanted to that varied differently from the way it is still being taught in Indoneisa. The videos from Bangdung in 1992 showed some striking simularities, but some big differences, in some of the same material that is being taught in SD today.

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, he was a Dutch guy working in Indonesia at the time, and took classes with Ie. He said Ie only knew a couple of styles, and there were a bunch of other teachers at that school.

Invalidates all of the "We only teach Chinese" and "we adopted Gis to blend in" rhetoric, too.

Yes it does, but the rest of his story also validates what Hiang The was telling the students that Sin only learned from Ie, but he learned from some of the other collegues.

Wasn't the dutch guy wearing a gi in one of those photos? I think the did wear gis or whatever else was convenient to train in.

[MasterKiller]

Yes it does, but the rest of his story also validates what Hiang The was telling the students that Sin only learned from Ie, but he learned from some of the other collegues.

Wasn't the dutch guy wearing a gi in one of those photos? I think the did wear gis or whatever else was convenient to train in.

No, that's a visiting Judo guy, also white.

[Judge Pen]

No, that's a visiting Judo guy, also white.

Ah ok. Could be bull****, but Sin The also claims to have a black belt in judo. Or maybe he met a black belt once.

[-N-]

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5504&d=1256342962


Looks reasonably legit.

[Judge Pen]

Looks reasonably legit.

From what you can see from a photo.

[MasterKiller]

From what you can see from a photo.

Shape of the guys head and face are similar to the paintings.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/shaolin_images/IePainting2_sm.jpg

[Judge Pen]

Shape of the guys head and face are similar to the paintings.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/shaolin_images/IePainting2_sm.jpg

I meant about him teaching CMA. I think the photos are probably of Ie Chang Ming, but you can never know. To quote Apocalypse Now, "the bull**** piles up so fast you need wings to stay above it."

[-N-]

From what you can see from a photo.

I've seen a lot worse.

From the structural details, you can tell that it was from a legit source.

[Lucas]

in regards to the engineering deal, his bio even says he got a bachelor's degree, and that he quit to be the grandmaster of shaolin

[Judge Pen]

?????
?????

Nice pictures. Why the question marks?

[Judge Pen]

JP
I am searching notes for "who painted the painting?
I am searching notes for the Approx date it was painted?

Heaven forbid somebody posts eronus info on the forum.
The foo would hit the fan

LOL. Yes, that would be horrible.

[Empty_Cup]

Shape of the guys head and face are similar to the paintings.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/shaolin_images/IePainting2_sm.jpg

The photos you have were never verified.

[tattooedmonk]

Mark, they make a point. Do you demo/video your understanding of CMA?

What's their point? Until recently I hadn't really thought about doing videos...I will consider it.

[Judge Pen]

The photos you have were never verified.

Anyone have access to intelligence (or casino) grade facial recognition software?

[Judge Pen]

What's their point? Until recently I hadn't really thought about doing videos...I will consider it.

There are people that will criticize it no matter what, but it's always nice to put your money where your mouth is.

[tattooedmonk]

There are people that will criticize it no matter what, but it's always nice to put your money where your mouth is.
True...video mean nothing I am not a performer. Students!?, thats why I offer to show anyone that desires to contact me , then i can show what
I do and do not know.:D:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

There are people that will criticize it no matter what, but it's always nice to put your money where your mouth is.

Still, what is there point, besides being trolls!?

[Syn7]

THE BIGGEST ERROR A PERSON CAN MAKE IS TO THINK SOME ONE HAS NO SKILL FROM WHAT THEY VIEW ON THE INTERNET OR BECAUSE OF THE STYLE THEY STUDY.
If one does this they are certainly going to be surprised.. Not in a good way. KC

You did that. Do you admit error, or does this just hold true for everyone but you?

[kwaichang]

Sure I have done it all have , I have gotten my butt kicked because of it . but if I do it on here its mostly because I am just F/in with ya. If i were to spar anyone on here i would be very serious about another persons skills . KC

[Syn7]

Surely you can see how "F/in with ya" can result in getting your "butt kicked", yes?

It's one thing to argue over semantics and grudge out some bullsh1t, but challenging people to actual matches is retarded. I've gotten caught up in it before, but that's just not me anymore. One to grow on!!! It's dumb, str8 up.

[Syn7]

That's rich , snipsky. My name is Mark, 30 years experience in the martial arts 21 years in chinese arts.

Yeah I got my introduction the Chinese arts from through SD , so what @$$ munch.

Anymore info you need just ask . Phine number, email, website address....I have always been open to question and normal discussions. Not your normal bullsh!t like you find around here

Ok I'm asking. Will you please post your phone #, email, street address and web address. Some passwords would be nice too, but not necessary.

[Syn7]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/545046_10150972956519860_1522648359_n.jpg

Why the vulnerable horse stance? I'm not really into JMA. Why do they do that? Why so wide?

The girl in front looks the strongest, by far. The fat kid in the back is typical of lazy out of shape kids who don't pat attention to detail. But I'm not gonna rip on kids too hard. Lazy kids have lazy parents, not the kids fault, yet.

[Lucas]

short stubby legs and really big wide horses.

[Syn7]

Ahhh you found something in my name to poke fun at.....bullied much as a child or are you being bullied! in your real life that all you have to do in all your spare time is sit here on the Internet and try and break people down? lacking in socials skills much? The half a dozen or so nit wits , like yourself, around here just make this place sad and pathetic.

Yet you keep comming back for more?

[Lucas]

http://www.theequinest.com/images/photoshop6.jpg

[Syn7]

People who degrade others are a joke. Dont fall into their trap.

Again, you are guilty as charged. :rolleyes:

[Syn7]

It's cool. I don't give a sh!t either way what these guys say, I just don't understand why we just can't have a normal discussion rather than this other bullsh!t. That's all. No biggie :eek::D:cool:

Then why do you keep getting upset and escalating? Counterproductive to the goals you claim, no?

I fully admit that I am here to watch the trainwreck. When it comes down to it, none of this sh1t actually matters. It's something to do while I wait for other things I actually care about.

[tattooedmonk]

Why the vulnerable horse stance? I'm not really into JMA. Why do they do that? Why so wide?

The girl in front looks the strongest, by far. The fat kid in the back is typical of lazy out of shape kids who don't pat attention to detail. But I'm not gonna rip on kids too hard. Lazy kids have lazy parents, not the kids fault, yet.these are all wrong.... This is unacceptable. Where is this from?

[tattooedmonk]

Then why do you keep getting upset and escalating? Counterproductive to the goals you claim, no?

I fully admit that I am here to watch the trainwreck. When it comes down to it, none of this sh1t actually matters. It's something to do while I wait for other things I actually care about.
If you were so knowledgable in CMA you would have a conversation with me rather than be an idiot. It does suit you though.:D

[hskwarrior]

from a kentucky shaolin do!!!!!

LMAO TRUE Sh1T

[hskwarrior]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/545046_10150972956519860_1522648359_n.jpg

can everyone say K-a-r-a-t-e!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Syn7]

If you were so knowledgable in CMA you would have a conversation with me rather than be an idiot. It does suit you though.:D

That convo was done forever ago. Do you really wanna just keep dancing in circles? And you call me an idiot?



http://1financialeducation.com/images/famous-quotes/albert-einstein-insanity.jpg

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbcGLScpIYk&feature=plcp

[Syn7]

There was Ie Chang Ming and others listed i cant remember their names though. He learned some from them . How much who really knows, I know u guys do not think much of GMThe but I have seen some great MA and when he was teaching some of the stuff he exhibited real skill. I remember Snake Pa Kua , and Double fans and many others, say what you want he had skills. Does he now well for a 64 year old the answer is YES. KC I am not defending just stating Facts. KC

Can anyone show me a clip of Sin The that they consider to me a masterful performance worthy of the title MASTER, let alone GM? You cats say you have footage of Sin The, so let's see it?

Surely you aren't harbouring secret vids nobody can see, that would be far beyond ironic.

[Lucas]

Those are all my kids. I try to impregnate as many women as I can, generally within a year or two time frame, so that my kids can all train together. I'm building an army. I have them train at shaolin do so that the foundation of brainwashing is already in place for when they return to the fold. It's easier that way on me.

[Syn7]

i dont doubt the guy has some skills.

No doubt. But then "some skill" is hardly worthy of note, let alone a title like his. All signs point to it be a self appointed title, all of them.


If you are training an army, you should cull out the weak as soon as you can. :mad:





:D

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cPMR4dbEaE&list=UUWYtZYH4kcbMm29liIOSGQQ&index=3&feature=plcp

[Empty_Cup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cPMR4dbEaE&list=UUWYtZYH4kcbMm29liIOSGQQ&index=3&feature=plcp

Jake Mace has gone his own way.

[Lucas]

If you are training an army, you should cull out the weak as soon as you can. :mad:


thats why i train them at shaolin do

[hskwarrior]

he is still the joke of the day. :)

for all of Shaolin Do, post up a video of what you believe to GOOD evidence of Sin The's skill. I am posting my sifu's skills up as a honest gesture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kBVSqL96u8

[tattooedmonk]

Yet you keep comming back for more?Nope, figured maybe you all wise up , guess I was wrong . Oh well

[Syn7]

in regards to the engineering deal, his bio even says he got a bachelor's degree, and that he quit to be the grandmaster of shaolin

If he really did come close to a masters, he's an idiot for walking away from that. assuming it wasn't a huge challenge for him. I don't think SKT is dumb, I just think he got caught because of his lack of foresight. He assumed he could hide the details forever. I'm sure by the time he realized that word of mouth and technology were exposing him, it was too late, he was already balls deep in the lie. I think SKT is smart enough to dupe people who want to believe. Not a master manipulator, just an opportunistic manipulator. Still, it takes some brains. And judging by the situation he was in when he was forced to talk, he made the best choice for HIM at the time, which also shows intelligence.

A **** ton of people take hard courses and give up before they finish because it's too hard. They have good grades, but it's toll is too much for them. Anyone with an average mind and dedication can take physics and do well. But only the ones that really get it make it through unscathed. Many quit early. Some drop out, others weather the storm long enough to get to the next stage then quit.

[bawang]

If he really did come close to a masters, he's an idiot for walking away from that.

of course not. he was failing and had to find a new hustle.

[Lucas]

i think its a case of being blind sided by the internet. back then no one knew we would have this crazy beast called the internet.

[bawang]

i think its a case of being blind sided by the internet. back then no one knew we would have this crazy beast called the internet.

dude cults proliferate regardless of information. scientologys still going strong.

[Lucas]

i proliferate too. all the time

[hskwarrior]

i have this dude that recently contacted me that has been in a few martial arts movies and he told me Scientology, gays, and jews run hollywood.

[kwaichang]

That convo was done forever ago. Do you really wanna just keep dancing in circles? And you call me an idiot?



http://1financialeducation.com/images/famous-quotes/albert-einstein-insanity.jpg

some call that practice how insane is that? KC

[bawang]

some call that practice how insane is that? KC

i guess thats not called insanity.

its called stupidity.

[kwaichang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cPMR4dbEaE&list=UUWYtZYH4kcbMm29liIOSGQQ&index=3&feature=plcp

Tae Kwon Do with hooks. Not the way I learned it. alot of stuff not in 2nd road of Hua. Sad really he has good flexibity etc. KC

[Syn7]

i proliferate too. all the time

I'm proliferating right now!

[Syn7]

some call that practice how insane is that? KC

Yeah, and if you practice and practice and get ****ty results, you're wasting your time. Your point? Man, you really are a bit slow, aren't ya!

[MasterKiller]

The photos you have were never verified.

Since when is proof of verification important to Shaolin Do?

Furry monk?...sounds about right!
Southern temple burned?...so what if our dates don't match history books!
Teacher melted a baby with his hands?...that's plausible!

MK has photos and a backstory that closely corroborates others people's oral accounts?...Not enough proof!

[kwaichang]

Yep 7up Im slow , but not dumb, whats your excuse for the way you are, KC

[Syn7]

When I write

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

and you respond with some **** about practice, I call that dumb. Clearly the quote is above your paygrade.

[kwaichang]

when i write

insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - albert einstein

and you respond with some **** about practice, i call that dumb. Clearly the quote is above your paygrade.

ok let me explain it slowly to you. Practice is doing the same thingover and over, basics , forms or bagwork or sparring and expecting to get better. You must not be better or you would have gotten it kc

[kwaichang]

Because different for you would be you getting better. KC

[hskwarrior]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6eNEjDajEr0/R_M8Y39FN3I/AAAAAAAAA48/kN95K_1mU6E/s320/RedNeckPorn.jpg

[Syn7]

ok let me explain it slowly to you. Practice is doing the same thingover and over, basics , forms or bagwork or sparring and expecting to get better. You must not be better or you would have gotten it kc

lol. Like I said, clearly the quote is waaaay above your paygrade.


AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS is key to understanding the quote. How ****ing dumb are you? For real, WTF???

At no point does that convey that repetition itself is a bad thing. Are you getting this yet?

If you are doing an exercise and you are getting great results, then you should keep doing it.
What would be dumb is expecting different results after putting in enough time to notice the difference. It's either helping you or its hurting you. If it is hurting you and you keep doing it in some ****ed up hope that things will just change, you are a retard.

Here's another reason why what you said was retarded. This one may be too abstract for you though, but I will try it once. Ok:

There are many variables in any exercise. If you change, the equation changes. If you aren't changing and the exercise itself remains the same then the equation remains the same.

So basically, if you are bigger, faster and/or stronger, the whole equation changes.

I can't believe you need this explained??? Actually, never mind, keep thinking you understand, it's more fun for me.

[Empty_Cup]

he is still the joke of the day. :)

for all of Shaolin Do, post up a video of what you believe to GOOD evidence of Sin The's skill. I am posting my sifu's skills up as a honest gesture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kBVSqL96u8

0:30 = Short form #10

[Empty_Cup]

...

for all of Shaolin Do, post up a video of what you believe to GOOD evidence of Sin The's skill. ...

Honestly, I'd be happy to oblige because there are a few vids I've seen that I think are really nice. Unfortunately I don't have any kind of permission to post this stuff, so it's left to whatever is already public domain.

[kwaichang]

in good faith I will post one this week end, if I can figure it out. I hope that your criticism of it will be Civil and honest with no Bias due the history of your 5 Animal form. KC :)

[hskwarrior]

in good faith I will post one this week end, if I can figure it out. I hope that your criticism of it will be Civil and honest with no Bias due the history of your 5 Animal form. KC

if you have clear cut and obvious skills, your performance will speak for itself.

[kwaichang]

I will post one of GMThe, that I have. I probably have the or one of the Largest DVD collection of forms in SD. KC:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

ok let me explain it slowly to you. Practice is doing the same thingover and over, basics , forms or bagwork or sparring and expecting to get better. You must not be better or you would have gotten it kc

You are not understanding the context of the quote from Einstein.
If I may:
Taking your example of practice-
Insanity would be practicing MA over and over and getting better at MA BUT expecting to get better at swimming.

[kwaichang]

Sorry that is not what I get from that statement. KC:)

[hskwarrior]

you don't eat an apple expecting to taste an orange is what that insanity pic is stating.

[bawang]

you don't eat an apple expecting to taste an orange is what that insanity pic is stating.

but frank, when i eat an apple, it taste like oranges.


btw can i have ur permission to teach the five animal form in wombat combat?

[Lucas]

the results of training are getting better, with side effects of injury here and there. so if you keep training, you will keep getting those same results. to expect different results is not logical.

[Lucas]

oh but just to be a stinker:


Who first said the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results?:

The answer isn't really known but current consensus is that it came from the author Rita Mae Brown in her book Sudden Death on Pg. 68 from 1983.

Quote: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

Most people will attribute this quote to Albert Einstein but there is no evidence to suggest that he made this statement.

This quote "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results" appears in the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous which was copyrighted in 1982 and later published in 1983. It is found on page 11 of the final "Review Form" which was distributed to the fellowship in November of 1981. It is found on page 23 of the current sixth edition.

[Drake]

All I got to say is, I ain't flying out to fight anyone. How about this... you come to Ft. Carson, and we'll go out to Training Area Bravo, and bring your best student with you. Why?

BECAUSE I WILL BEAT YOUR PRIZE STUDENT TO DEATH USING YOU AS A HUMAN ****ING CLUB. I WILL SMASH YOUR BONES AND THE THIRSTY ROCKS BELOW WILL DRINK YOUR BLOOD. I WILL IGNORE THE BLEATING WHIMPERS OF YOUR STUDENT FOR MERCY, FOR BOTH YOU AND HE DESERVE NONE. NO MERCY, NO QUARTER.

You want to be a warrior? Better start ****ing acting like one.

[Lucas]

i think you just made bawang go from 1.7 cm to 2.34 cm in size

[bawang]

All I got to say is, I ain't flying out to fight anyone. How about this... you come to Ft. Carson, and we'll go out to Training Area Bravo, and bring your best student with you. Why?

BECAUSE I WILL BEAT YOUR PRIZE STUDENT TO DEATH USING YOU AS A HUMAN ****ING CLUB. I WILL SMASH YOUR BONES AND THE THIRSTY ROCKS BELOW WILL DRINK YOUR BLOOD. I WILL IGNORE THE BLEATING WHIMPERS OF YOUR STUDENT FOR MERCY, FOR BOTH YOU AND HE DESERVE NONE. NO MERCY, NO QUARTER.

You want to be a warrior? Better start ****ing acting like one.
is this you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX2FjJm2_YA

[hskwarrior]

but frank, when i eat an apple, it taste like oranges.


btw can i have ur permission to teach the five animal form in wombat combat?

man bawang thats a tough one. Eat an Apple thinking it will taste like an apple but in fact you taste Orange instead then i think if you ate the orange it may taste like a pear then if you eat the pear it may taste like the apple. i think there's one solution to this problem.

http://fun4friends.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/f71.jpg

and, i think it would benefit you more bawang to just call it the shalin 6 animal form which consists of tiger, crane, snake, panther,dragon and WOMBAT. the secret to his 6 animal form is the Wombat. Wombat Combat is deadly.

[bawang]

oh but just to be a stinker:


Who first said the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results?:


sanity is for the weak.

[Lucas]

wombat combat 6 animal forceful defecation technique. no can defend.

[Lucas]

sanity is for the weak.

will this be on my rank test?

[bawang]

wombat combat 6 animal forceful defecation technique. no can defend.

you have it confused with the samurai form.

the technique of 6 animal form is based on testicle eight outstanding techniques golden tiger shout qigong.


will this be on my rank test?

listen to this when you sleep every night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX2FjJm2_YA&feature=related

[hskwarrior]

wombat combat 6 animal forceful defecation technique. no can defend.

wombat..... combat....... will spray you like a mac 10!!!

[Lucas]

oh i always get those confused. sorry i will go back to the deprivation chamber again for corrective transgression training.

[Lucas]

listen to this when you sleep every night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX2FjJm2_YA&feature=related

so good and soothing! i think this will help me sleep better. fire and hate!!!

[hskwarrior]

corrective transgression training.

YOUUUUUUU didn't learn THAT!!!!! you bought Sin The's book where he placed very detailed earmarks throughout the whole thing. They can tell.....you shameful skullduggery shady cloak and dagger king you

[Lucas]

bawang caught me and beat me with stick until i burned the book and mixed the ashes with mayo and then smeare it all over the genitles on the statue of bawang deep in a hidden cave at the summit of mount shaoshi

[hskwarrior]

bawang caught me and beat me with stick until i burned the book and mixed the ashes with mayo and then smeare it all over the genitles on the statue of bawang deep in a hidden cave at the summit of mount shaoshi


Incredible. I would have done the same thing. Beat you with a stick that is. :D

[Lucas]

Incredible. I would have done the same thing. Beat you with a stick that is. :D

i deserved it for my sacrilege