Is Wing Chun easy or difficult to learn?

[mun hung]

Do you feel WC is easier or more difficult to learn compared to other Martial Arts? Do you think more coordination is needed for WC? How much time do you feel is needed to be proficient in WC? Are some people just better off studying something else?

[whippinghand]

"Do you feel WC is easier or more difficult to learn compared to other Martial Arts?"
Depends on whether the level of instruction from the WC teacher matches that of the other art. Given a good teacher, one should be just as easy as others.

"Do you think more coordination is needed for WC?"
Wing Chun has everything.

"How much time do you feel is needed to be proficient in WC?"
A lifetime.

"Are some people just better off studying something else?"
Some people are better off studying JKD or Karate.

[wingchunwsl]

i think wing chun is a harder art compared to many styles. but like everything else, it is easier if you practice hard. i practiced tkd before and later when i went to wing chun, it took me a lot more concentration and dedication to understand the stuff i learned.

i think wing chun does require good hand coordination. i would say wing chun could be learned from anyone, but for some people it might be a little harder. i know it is for me. :D

[wongfeilung809]

wing chun is easy to learn , but hard to master...
simpleangles

[whippinghand]

how do you know?

[TjD]

its hard to master because a punch isnt only a punch and a bong sau isnt only a bong sau, learning the correct internal alignment can take quite some time

peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[BeiKongHui]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hard to master?
how do you know? [/quote]

Probably because, like you and everyone else who practices an art or craft, mastery is that to which he aspires. You, sir, are a condescending creep attempting to hide your bitterness and dubious knowledge behind a veil of arrogant pseudo-intellectualism. You dishonor your Wing Chun family.

"To the extreme!"
--Poochie

[old jong]

I would say it is very difficult because it is very easy to turn it into something else!...Just a thought! ;)

[IronFist]

"Do you think more coordination is needed for WC?"
Wing Chun has everything.



That didn't really answer his question.

Is more coordination needed? Well, for WC you don't need to be able to do the splits or bench 400lbs. You need to be coordinated, tho.

Iron

[wingchunwsl]

i agree.

i get a lot of different ways from different kwoon bros on how to do various things. like when i first learned double pushing tan and lop sau, a lot of different people corrected me. i usually end up having to ask my sifu for sure.

[mysteri]

you will find that a lot of techniques you learn can be done in a plethora of ways. there is not always one exact set-in-stone way to do many techniques. X can do it one way, Y can do it another. then sifu may show it to you another way. does taht mean that X and Y are wrong? no, because that is obviously the way that tehy learned and/or interpreted the techniques when they were taught. so think of it as more knowledge for you to have and to pass along. a good rule of thumb usually is: if it doesnt feel natural, it's probably not right (useful). hope i have been some help!

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

[tiger_1]

my friend mun hung , wing chun have that nature and that system of texnic so is imposible to ask how difficult is to learn . in w.c. allso have individual gradation and individual road in traning progres .w.c. is not c.l.f. or karate or jkd.!!! to learn here in w.c. student must see texnic and do individual system of wing chun . - just my oppinion tiger_1 ;)

/

[Nat from UK]

I think other MA's look at the relative simplicity of Wing Chun and think "that looks easy" - To do a hand shapes whilst in a stances in line during class is very easy, but to coordinate that block whilst attacking, whilst closing a gap, whilst defending your centre line, whilst trying to control your opponents centre line, whilst trying to maintain your root/structure, when your partner is trying to tear your head off (i think you get the picture) IS HARD

Most skills worth having are hard to acquire

Nat from UK

[chessGMwannabe]

I think that it's easier myself. focusing on teh concepts of forward energy and stuff seem to make techniques fall into place. I'm not saying that I'm great or anything, but it seems to make more sense and flow better than say tkd, because there you really have more to think about rather than the comparative simplicity of wing chun, not the say that wing chun is without depth and very advanced techniques. wc strikes me as kind of like what the name translates to, beautiful springtime; a fresh start, it seems to start from the beginning with slt and then progresses. slt when combined with decent footwork is tough to fight against, and it doesn't require you to have extreme physical conditioning either.
just a thought

[mun hung]

IMO, Wing Chun theories are not difficult to understand, but are much harder to apply due to the full body coordination that is required. I've taken a few different MA's in the past and found WC to be more challenging both physically and mentally. So, in my humble opinion, I think WC is harder to learn than alot of other MA's due to the coordination that is needed, but I also feel the payoff is far greater.

[wingchunwsl]

thanks mysteri. ;)

[Sharky]

whipping hand you are such a tit. you remind me of no_know in many ways. i can't be bothered explaining these two statements. the first one won't be a mistery to anyone else.

anyway, my point. if it takes a lifetime to become proficient in wing chun (or any other ma), what the *hell* is the point in learning it? I believe that it is possible to study wing chun for a lifetime, and to always be learning new things, but if you aren't proficienct in a couple of years, to beat the average street thung, something is wrong.

Please stop trying to sound all clever and full of wisdom in your posts, and contribute to this forum in a useful way.

Edd

My anus is superior™

[mun hung]

You sure know how to make friends! :D

[whippinghand]

You guys have great gifts, really.

Sharky, raise your standards.

[EmptyCup]

You should be banned from this forum

[Sharky]

also, just because he (and I) have not mastered wing chun, it does not take a genius to work out that it is indeed hard to master.

it is not necessary to fly to the moon to know that it is a hard thing to do.

Edd

My anus is superior™

[jameswebsteruk]

I used to do Tang Soo Do. At the beginning, for the first few years even, you feel great doing such a dynamic powerful art. You get to kick high, shout a lot, and punch in unision. You feel good about your skills. Hi-ya!

For the first few years of Wing Chun, you know your skills are rubbish. It takes a lot longer to feel comfortable with them. You feel weak and vulnerable.

The skills take longer to learn, but after a few years, soon overtake the hard, dynamic way.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[MasterPhil]

People seem to confuse "learning" and "mastering".

Nothing is "easy" to "master". To "master" anything requires hard work (daily), dedication (over a long period of time), and a good teacher. Everybody thinks they work hard and have dedication but most are fooling themselves.

If what you ask is if wc is "easy" to "learn", then the answer is yes. It is very easy to learn and understand. I respectfully suggest that people who find wc "hard" to learn might have a more or less severe learning disability. Centerline theory is NOT rocket science. It may take you a lifetime to "master" wc but if it takes you a lifetime to understand its concepts then you are the problem, not wc.

Do you really think wc is as difficult to learn as taichi or hunggar? I know I won't make any friends saying that but, YES, I think wc is "easy" to learn compared to other cma. If some of you do not share my opinion, I suggest maybe it is because you never seriously tried learning anything more difficult than wc.

Correct me if I am wrong but, I always thought wc was "meant" to be an easy to learn style so that people could be trained to be somewhat effective in a short period of time.

ST

p.s. WhippingHand and EmptyCup, your profile shows you are both from TO. May I respectfully ask who are you studying wc from? I'm just curious to see if we know each other. I used to study under ST about 6-7 years ago.

p.p.s OldJong, interesting remark of yours. I think it is easy to make wc something else because of its simplicity. Human nature has problems with accepting simple things as they are. People need to see "more to it" than there is. They forget that wc is so efficient in part because it IS so simple.

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[EmptyCup]

Silent Thunder, I study under Stewart Fung/Fung Hon. He used to teach with the Hong Kong Ving Tsun Association guys back in the day but has been teaching in Toronto since the late 1970s.

Your teacher was Sunny Tang, I presume...I know people who have trained under him. He is the most commercial of the Toronto Wing Chun teachers, I don't mean that in a negative way, but that he has a school open to the public whereas many teachers here such as my teacher, Ho Kam Ming, and others teach through introduction and by word of mouth...

What did you think of his abilities?

I have asked Whipping Hand before where he learns because I am curious about his so-called "true traditional wing chun knowledge" that doesn't match with the teachings of most of the Toronto Wing Chun teachers I know of...but he is tight lipped on his lineage

Hopefully he will change his mind and enlighten the rest of us... ;)

[Watchman]

I was curious, since you are from Toronto, if you have ever had the chance to meet Sifu Eric Li.

[whippinghand]

Is he not in Vancouver?

[EmptyCup]

I thought he was in Vancouver too...never heard of him in Toronto, sorry...

[Printer]

Beginners two cents....

I have just started Wing Chun. I have found that it is relatively simple to learn at the beginning level. Only so long as you let go and just learn Wing Chun, don't try to make it something that it is not and if you have any previous training in any other MA or fighting technique - JUST FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED. I have schooled in Hapkido, TKD and Militay Self Defence in my youth.

I am now just starting to wrap my head around the centerline thing - had one hell of a time just getting the simple stances down and still don't have my footwork down right. I also seem to a BIG problem relaxing.

My 10 yr old son seems to have an easier time as he has not been pre-programed.

I truly look forward to learning a system that I can take into middle age. A style that does not demand that I be able to lift allot of weight, do full splits and will keep my head straight.

I have taken on this style as a lifestyle and do not know if I will ever be able to "master" it.

I have not entered into it to prove anything to anyone else or becoming something special.

[whippinghand]

Empty Cup, those are your words, not mine.

Silent Thunder, as your Wing Chun is of Sunny Tang lineage, I can understand how you would have that mentality... Don't limit yourself to your own head.

[WongFeHung]

wing-chun is simple-never easy. I think it is an extremely profound and deep art, hidden behind a veil of simplicity. (howzat grab ya?) I think you can get away with a style like Hung-Ga, or Choy Li Fut, even Bak Mei at lower levels, because at lower levels, you can still smash around, but Wing Chun needs to be developed in the practitioner, i.e. position, structure,body integration, sensitivity. Not as forgiving for the beginner.-then again, nothing beats running at the guy with chain punches!I've seen beginner Wing Chun guys kick butt like this!

[whippinghand]

They require position, structure,body integration, sensitivity as well.

[Sharky]

it's easy to learn, but hard to use for a couple of years, until you have a good understanding of the style and art. my style of fighting is messed up cos i learned some wing chun, and practiced it over and over an dover (And over some more), and now i have wing chun theories and techniques imbedded into my head, but gaps in my knowledge. So basically, i dunno whether to use wing chun in a fight, or what. It's all a mess because my wing chun is bad, but i don't know what else to do.

It's at a point where if i had not learned any MA, i would be a better "fighter", as i wouldn't be thinking about what i was doing in a fight, and just acting in auto pilot mode...

So, it's easy to learn, hard to use, very hard to master...

My anus is superior™

[whippinghand]

It's hard to learn. 'Cause if you can't use it, you haven't learned it.

[Watchman]

Sorry guys - total geography screw up on that one. :rolleyes:

[Ars vitae]

This is partially related to the question. I couldn't train in Wing Chun for a while, but still continued to keep up MA training. Whenever I did get the opportunity to spar or train with other people, my "natural" way of fighting had changed. The finese of my techniques had changed, but the WIng Chun principals stuck, which meant that I still ended up capturing the centre line, killing/parrying whatever limb they stuck at me and sticking to them, like white on rice. So in my own experience, I think that Wing Chun's concepts are easy/important to learn, but mastering it, IS difficult.

[MasterPhil]

EmptyCup, thank you for your answer. I did study under sunnytang (or rather under one of his instructors) but got tired of the commercial (it always comes down to money) aspect of the organization so I switched to a different teacher/style about 5 years ago.

What did you think of his abilities? – I’ve seen better, but I’ve also seen a lot worse. At least it IS wingchun. I think his business skills are top notch. Some of his older students are pretty good at wc also. But if anybody I cared about asked me, I would suggest studying at his school for 6 months to get the basics then seek out a more private, less commercial instructor. Not because it's a bad school, just because there's better for cheaper. But this is the age-old debate on commercial/private instruction…

“most teach through introduction and by word of mouth” -- I always suspected that was the situation in TO. If you open the yellow pages for the GTO, you can only find a couple of legitimate kungfu schools. Compared to the number of chinese people living there, the ratio doesn’t add up. I’m glad to hear there is more to the TO kf scene than meets the eye.

WhippingHand, you got issues… As far as your advice goes:"Don't limit yourself to your own head", it is good basic advice for us all. Unfortunately, you are not talking to a kid here. I left the sunnytang org BECAUSE I met other wc/cma people like you (actually, they were probably more like emptycup…) and realized I was missing out on a lot being with sunny. So, no, I don’t "limit myself to my own head". It is true that my mentality was shaped by my sunnytang experience. But it was also shaped by many more experiences/encounters.

You hide behind cryptic answers, don’t have the decency to answer polite questions, and give out condescending advice. Why do you write in this forum? If you want to be a mystery, then be a mystery. But why participate in a public forum if you are not ready to be open and honest about yourself? Like a ninja, you feel most comfortable hiding behind a smoke screen and throwing darts. Have your fun Ashida and don't worry, God loves you.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[whippinghand]

Bottom line is WC(as I know it) is as difficult to learn as the topmost calibre of Hung Gar,if not more.

[EmptyCup]

I don't know about his abilities personally but the general consent among wc people in TO are that he isn't the greatest...

I know he paid a visit to my teacher a few years ago and was beaten into a corner, but my teacher said he is better than most practioners, so I guess he's ok...

I knew a couple of people who trained in his school by Midland n Finch but I wasn't too impressed with their abilities or concepts. The theory was lacking somewhat. I guess it's because his senior students teach most of the classes :) I know that where I learn, most of the snior students suck more than the juniors :) and I would never take any of their advice (I am a senior btw)

Commercial schools are rip offs...

and yes, most Wing Chun teachers in Toronto teach out of their homes...that way they get money tax free!!! :cool: haha

I heard from Sihing73 that Augustine Fong's going to Ottawa for a seminar in Sept...Ho Kam Ming, now in TO was Fong's teacher...

and thanks for the compliment :) at least, I think it was a compliment...the thing about meeting more people like me as opposed to people like Wimpy Hand? ;)

[MasterPhil]

Have you ever learned "topmost calibre of Hung Gar" to be able to compare?

It's all just a matter of perspective anyway...

...and semantics.

What seems hard/difficult for someone will be easy for another and vice-versa. What seems hard/difficult one day will be easy the next day/month/year.

This is an empty debate like most others. I should have kept silent...

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[ng mui rules]

i think wing chun is easier. you become a proficient fighter faster. i also think the movements are more natural. there are not deep horse stances or bow stances, or twisted stances to get used to using. our hand movements are simpler too. chen tai chi on the otherhand is very hard to learn. and even harder to use in combat when still a novice.

[whippinghand]

Yes, I have.

[EmptyCup]

Somebody said Wing Chun was easy to learn but hard to master. This is the best answer I've heard about Wing Chun ;)

Wing Chun's concepts, theories and techniques can be learned within a year's time. Most serious students should be able to fight within 6 months to a year...Wong Shun Leung began fighting within 6 months of taking up Wing Chun (even though he had boxing experience) and he had only just learned siu lim tao then!

Other Chinese Martial Arts have dozens of forms, sometimes hundreds...our system is simple.

Yet there is a great degree of difficulty in the application of our simple system. I don't mean apply as in fighting because one can learn the straight punch, tan, biu, pow, gum and go fight because they are easily applied unlike the pre-determined routines taught in other styles. I'm talking about centerline, angles, form...

Most people struggle with these things for quite a long time and never outgrow their bad habits...

Wing Chun is a hard-to-master simple system :) Styles such as Hung Gar, Tai Chi, Pak Gwa, are much more complicated and take longer to learn to apply...

[MasterPhil]

WH -- At least you have an educated opinion then.

EC -- Good clear summary. ;)

[whippinghand]

Those arts are simply taught differently. In other words, they teach the same things, but in a different order, and a different focus.