Used martial arts in real situation !

[Hombrediablo2]

( This in no way is a troll job true story ) I work in coroporate security for a major retailer in Miami Florida I wont specify who for obvious reasons. On this particular day we where on alert for a credit card fraud ring of thieves that had been charging up fraudulent accounts using peoples identities real scumbags. Well one of the males walked into a store and charged $500.00 dollars on a fraud card we just happened to be at the store while it was happening the male was approx 6"0 about 180 lbs. We ran up front ( letting the transaction go through) and the male was exiting the building. I was the first to arrive so I approached the male and identified myself he took off running and I pursued he jumped over some hedges and tripped faceplanting the street!! his buddies in the getaway car took off when all four of us came out. I then kneed him in the face while he was getting up ( I know not a standard apprehension technique but my adrenaline was pumping) he was so bent on getting away he sprang up and took a swing at me i slipped the punch and shot in for a takedown we fell on the concrete ( boy did that suck) and he ended up in my guard i slapped a guillotine choke on him he popped out my partner handcuffed one hand so i figured what the hell I slapped him in a triangle he powered out again a crowd started forming and he gave up the whole thing lasted like 30 sec it felt like 10 min we handcuffed him and when the cops got there and ran his name he had warrants for his arrest for assault on an officer. Sorry for the long story but the moral of the story train in all aspects of combat you never know when youll use it.

[David Jamieson]

dude, you're a square badge floorwalker.

you suckered a guy who was down.

[Hombrediablo2]

I know dude it was an adrenaline thing I couldnt help it besides the guy was a scumbag he deserved it he had been ruining peoples lives!

[David Jamieson]

ruining peoples lives by commiting fraud?

It's not like the dude was a hard criminal putting guns to peoples heads and treatening their lives.

If the card was bad, it was already reported. You could have simply made the arrest without the violence. What sort of restrain and contain training have you received for your job?

Criminals who ruin peoples lives are thugs who actually inflict violence on others. Psychopaths and sociopaths. Drug dealers who push crack on kids, People who run street prostitutes. These are examples of criminals who damage peoples lives.

two bit petty thief fraud artists are hardly ruining peoples lives.
And if they are, I would like to know how...keeping in mind that the law in it's grand equality forbids the poor as well as the rich from sleeping under bridges and stealing bread.:rolleyes:

As for other forms of matchstick men, I would think that those who prey on the greed of others are pretty greasy and slimy. But then, many who fall prey to these types are embarassed to report their losses because it was fueled by their own greed to begin with.

There's stealing and doing harm, and then there is being in a crcumstance due to socio-economic conditions. Guys like the CEO's of companies like Enron are ruining peoples lives by looting their lives savings for another lambo in the stable. Guys who make 500 buck purchases on a lifted card aren't ruining peoples lives in my opinion.

[Shaolinlueb]

um, good job. criminals are criominals they dont deserve to be babied and be nice. he already assulted an officer so why not give him a few knock arounds, let him get some of his own medicine. dont be nice to those type of people.

[David Jamieson]

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve to get the consequences of his actions.

But is it ok in any sense to take a hammer to a problem that requires tweezers?

If a child steals an apple from a table, is that the same?

There is measure to everything. To cast all crimes into the same pile is sort of strange. Let's not forget that laws make criminals. In context to our own forms of social agreements such as how one behaves in public and interacts with others etc.

Because you drive 5mph over the speed limit, you are commiting a crime. Should you be beaten for that?

Or how about when you neglect to enter an item on your tax form. Whether you forge=ot about that item or deliberately did so, you are commiting a crime. Are you a scumbag for that? If you are poor and hungry, and you steal a loaf of bread, should you be beaten for that?

Lemme throw a little jesus at you guys, seeing as you might understand it.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

If you are incapable of trying to understand the circumstances, then you are probably not fit for a job that entails protecting others.

there is a huge difference between stealing a chocolate bar and pulling a carjacking.

Police who commit assaults are criminals in every context of the word. They are not above the law and they are not more valuable than the citizenry ther=y are charged to protect and serve.

there is some serious skewing going on these days in this regards in my opinion.

The dude commited fraud. He didn't bring physical harm and could have easily paid the consequences for that as opposed to being assaulted himself.

In short, square badge commited the greater crime by not properly executing his duties. He says himself he couldn't help hgis violent rage. In my opinion, he is in the wrong line of work if that's the case.

[Indestructible]

There is a difference between a child commiting a crime and a known criminal commiting a crime. Sounds like the necessary force was used to take care of this guy. Good job. Excessive would have been to continue beating him while he was down or handcuffed.

[David Jamieson]

Sounds like the necessary force was used to take care of this guy.

no.

he stated it himself that he was adrenilized and couldn't help himself.

it seems taht some of you fail to understand that it is not all that difficult to arrest this guy after the fact while he is in his house or on the street.

and until they ran the sheets on the guy, he was not "known" at all?

and by the logic being stated here, a criminal is a criminal by any other name. What about children who kill with their parents firearms?

think about this stuff before puffing the bravado pipes.

[Losttrak]

Crimes start small. People dont start out putting guns to people's heads. They start testing envelopes by things like credit card fraud. Then as they get more confident, they get greedier and more risky. Its an addiction.

[old jong]

One thing is for sure! If ever some security guard tries to choke me,he better get ready for some serious criminal charges himself.

[Hombrediablo2]

Thanks for all the replies Kung lek is entitled to his opinions thats cool but the guy was not one of these model citizens that Miami is full of lol and yeah I got a little out of control but who knows what this guy was capable of doing to get some money on the street. And just for the record were not security guards that wear uniforms and no there was no justifiable reason for having kneed this guys head but the story was just to prove that martial arts are somewhat effective in real life situations ive been in tons of situations where this type of thing occurs and I believe regardless of the circumstance some type of training always helps again thanks for the replies I hope no one was offeneded.

[Meat Shake]

If someone stole $500 dollars from me and I knew about it, Id do a whole lot more than just knee them in the face.

[IronFist]

Alright, see those keys to the right of the keys with letters on them? Those are called punctuation keys. You should learn how to use them.

[cerebus]

$500 for me would mean being unable to make rent OR buy any food. Yeah, $500 would probably ruin my life for a big chunk of time.

By the way KL, how many times have YOU apprehended a criminal who was resisting arrest? I've probably had to do so well over 100 times. Maybe the knee to the face was uncalled for. Then again maybe if he hadn't stunned/ distracted him with that knee he might've caught a knife in his guts.

It's your life you're gambling with in such a situation. Would I have done the same thing in that situation? I can't say, because I WASN'T THERE. Just like you can't judge because YOU weren't there.Is sparing the criminal a bruised face worth my life? Nope.

It's really great that you feel so sorry for that poor guy for the rough treatment he received. Of course if he hadn't been out there ripping off peoples' money & assaulting police officers in the first place then he never would've been in that situation. But hey, let's not put the blame on him, eh?

[TenTigers]

I square-badged for awhile also (yeah, I did some things) and it took 4 of us to try to subdue this 6'2" crackhead. We each had an arm and a leg and he would suddenly get this burst of energy and we'd go flying! I finally turned him around aginst the wall, kicked the back of his knee, and brought him down to be cuffed. He 'happened' to hit his head into the wall on the way down, which seemed to calm him a bit. He said he was gonna come back lookin for me one day. Yeah, right. Tough talk when you're cuffed.
About a year later, he was back in the mall, and we confronted him in BK, while he was jammed in the booth-so he really wasn't about to get up. PD took him away. He had a sawed off 12 guage in his car. I don't work there anymore.

[cerebus]

Yup. Not an unusual situation. All my arrests were conducted as a military policeman. Everything from drunken bar brawls to DUIs to domestic assaults. Nasty, dangerous situations to be in.

[rogue]

TenTigers, Walt Whitman mall?

[Enforcer-]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
ruining peoples lives by commiting fraud?

It's not like the dude was a hard criminal putting guns to peoples heads and treatening their lives.

If the card was bad, it was already reported. You could have simply made the arrest without the violence. What sort of restrain and contain training have you received for your job?

Criminals who ruin peoples lives are thugs who actually inflict violence on others. Psychopaths and sociopaths. Drug dealers who push crack on kids, People who run street prostitutes. These are examples of criminals who damage peoples lives.

two bit petty thief fraud artists are hardly ruining peoples lives.
And if they are, I would like to know how...keeping in mind that the law in it's grand equality forbids the poor as well as the rich from sleeping under bridges and stealing bread.:rolleyes:

As for other forms of matchstick men, I would think that those who prey on the greed of others are pretty greasy and slimy. But then, many who fall prey to these types are embarassed to report their losses because it was fueled by their own greed to begin with.

There's stealing and doing harm, and then there is being in a crcumstance due to socio-economic conditions. Guys like the CEO's of companies like Enron are ruining peoples lives by looting their lives savings for another lambo in the stable. Guys who make 500 buck purchases on a lifted card aren't ruining peoples lives in my opinion.

Sure it is. And it costs US money meaning we have to pay more money for goods and services. It also makes America weaker. White collar crime affects everyone. Maybe you think a shoplifter who steals a pair of Nike's and a businessman who bilks old people out of tens of millions of dollars are on the same level (or by your previous statement the crookid businessman isn't even a criminal) but I don't. I think the crookid businessman is doing a LOT more harm to real Americans and America.

[Hombrediablo2]

Cool responses didnt mean to stir up crap but in my time working for the company I work for weve managed to pull alot of crackheads off the streets. And alot of times the people have warrants the police are always happy that we were the ones pullin them off the streets. I think ive said enough so ill talk to you all later!

[Shaolinlueb]

kung luk is a hippy lover from canada. its okay, they dont have real crimes up there. :D :o :p

[cerebus]

Apparently not.

[Vash]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
kung luk is a hippy

And hippies suck.

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by Vash
And hippies suck.

word

[bung bo]

how can anyone say creditcard fraud (ie. stealing out of someone's pocket) is not worthy of an a$$beatin'? if i found out someone stole $500 dollars from me, they've got a one-way ticket to fist city. throwing your knee into the guy's head was maybe a little excessive for a law enforcer since your don't want to portray an image of a bully. use submissions over strikes in those situations.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
It's not like the dude was a hard criminal putting guns to peoples heads and treatening their lives.

If the card was bad, it was already reported. You could have simply made the arrest without the violencen.

the guy admits he probably has no more than a little skill on that front and isn't it ironic how those who do are less likely to do it out of " adrealine" nor nerves???



and this folks is why the confidence we get from our proficiencies give us peace, clarity and solidity ;)

cheers all

B

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kung Lek,

If in a fight you're thinking about whether $500 is justifiable for a knee in the face to bring him down - you shouldn't be in the fight in the first place.

If you already decided to apprehend the guy, you can't go by half measures. It's important to finish the job and extinguish the threat to your personal safety.

I would have to agree with cerebus this time. He is obviously a hard nose cop who knows the criminal mind. He is so hard nose that he is now a security guard. To Cerebus, cop work is a way of life. When it comes to apprehending criminals, good to listen to him, when he is sober.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Kung Lek,

If in a fight you're thinking about whether $500 is justifiable for a knee in the face to bring him down - you shouldn't be in the fight in the first place.

If you already decided to apprehend the guy, you can't go by half measures. It's important to finish the job and extinguish the threat to your personal safety.I agree with the above statement by (chokes back tears... whispers) Ego Extrod...
(Pukes in bucket)

I tried.

[Fred Sanford]

WTF does square-badge mean?

[David Jamieson]

There was no fight. THe guy ran when the bell went. He was chased down. He fumbled and fell at which point he was caught up with.

while he was down, he was kneed in the face and then arrested.

so, it is easy to see from some of your responses, that perhaps some of you aren't really reading these threads. Or this one.

Some of you can't seem to understand that it is a flagged card, ergo the person who owns the card is not losing the 500 bucks. I'm not usre if many of you have credit cards or know how they work.

Also, the perp was not known until after the fact. Up until the point he was kneed in the face and arrested, he might have been just one more desperate person trying to find some way of getting some money. This was an unknown.

Now, I don't think I said anywhere here that I agree with the actions of the perp. But I don't agree with the actions of unecessary violent acts simply because one is in a position of authority.

In fact, I am of the belief that the position of authority should be the one practicing discretion or that position of authority degrades to little more than what the criminal is.

was he, the security guard attacked? No.

Now you are entitled to your opinion. I am saying I disagree with many of the ways that petty theft is dealt with as if it is in the same league as much more severe crimes which are rarely dealt with.

I don't agree with the criminal and yes he should face his consequences. He should clean up his act and become a productive and contributing member of society if he wants to live within it.

But those who are charged with our protection and the enforcement of teh laws we make and abide by, should not be behaving as the real criminals would. Out of control and laying a beating on someone is in and of itself a criminal act. If you can't understand that, then perhaps you never will. Who knows.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
WTF does square-badge mean? I'm guessing private security.

[Reggie1]

Kung Lek,
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the actions in the story, but I am curious--If you would have seen a story posted on here about a security guard killed by a knife from a credit card fraud 'bandit', how would that make you feel? Which is better? Use of unjustified force to bring down a known criminal, or loss of life because of the need to not use force unless provoked? Don't forget that this same thief was convicted of assaulting an officer. We'll never know, but that knee to the face could have saved that security guard's life.

[David Jamieson]

reggie1

you are tossing around a hypothetical situation in which you have set all the bait up to be answered in favour of your own view.

I ain't biting. Point is, that is not what happened.

Here is what I do know. Security guards are not Police. They have no place in doing anything other than surveilling the perp and calling the police in to make the arrest.

It is not the place of regular citizens such as security guards to run down fraud perps or petty thieves. It is their place to follow them, track them and call the cops.

The problem lies in teh sense of bravado. And the security guards should not be endangering himself by doing what was done. THat is what Police are for and that is what Police are trained to do.

capice?

[Fred Sanford]

Here is what I do know. Security guards are not Police. They have no place in doing anything other than surveilling the perp and calling the police in to make the arrest.

That all depends, maybe canada is different. As a security guard you are paid to protect the interests of your employer. Which can mean arresting people for violations of the law which occur on the employers property.

[David Jamieson]

As a security guard you are paid to protect the interests of your employer. Which can mean arresting people for violations of the law which occur on the employers property.

since when do employers have the right to have private aremies or private police forces.

I think what you are speaking of is misconstruing the purpose of having a human presence.

Having a security guard serves as a deterence. The training for so many of them is atrocious and really, they have no place making arrests or playing policeman.

If they want to be policemen, then go be policemen. But don't tell me that security guards have the same function as police. they don't and they aren't anywhere near as properly equipped to handle the tasks associated with making arrests.

herein lies the problem. Security guards are not enforcement, they are deterent.

Now, when a security guard makes an arrest, it is not a bonafide collar. THere is no record or arrest etc etc. And that's why they are not recognized at the same level as authentic and genuine police force members.

Their arrests are basically citizens arrests and really, there are way too many times that they stepo over the line and risk their own lives and the lives of others around them because of some need to be a hero. And for what? 500 bucks on an already cancelled credit card? Gimme a break. And don't even try to cast a square badge in the same light as a real LEO.

It's like comparing a cub scout's responsibilities and duties to that of an army ranger.

the security guard is not accountable. And so, there is the next problem. Byt doing this act, the security guard has in effect risked becoming a criminal himself because he did not stick to his duties which are to deter through presence, monitor, surviel and inform.

[David Jamieson]

I would also add.

Like any citizen, doing the right thing is doing the right thing. It is imperative that we adhere to the social construct and function within it as best as we can to fit the ideal model.

If we observe someone doing harm to another, then we should step in. But as far as theft, or property crimes are concerned, I think that is a matter for the police and the courts.

I don't think anyones life can be equated to propety value.
BUt had the scenario been that the guy had walked into the store and forcebly tried to rob the cashier, and commited an assault than I would say it would be everyones responsibility to step up and hold the guy. Not to beat him down.

If citizens acted like this then there would be a whole lot less of these types of violent crimes let me tell you.

But a property crime is not worth the risk and frankly it's irresponsible to make a mountain out of a molehill such as this.

[SifuAbel]

Moral of the story:

Kung lek should never try credit card fraud in a U.S. store.

[David Jamieson]

ha ha abel.:rolleyes:

the moral of the story is that people clearly need to understand morality.

there is nothing righteous about bravado and machismo and the ramifications of these actions are all too often negative.

[SifuAbel]

Ok then, can I "borrow" your credit card?

Sorry, we don't have much of a "do me" mentality here.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Actually, KL, in the U.s. we have not surrendered all our rights to the state. Anybody can effect an arrest of sorts in certain conditions. And security gaurds (properly trained and certified) can and do arrest or detain people for removal by the police.

I imagine your blocking skills are exceptional since your knee jerks so often...

[Reggie1]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
there is nothing righteous about bravado and machismo and the ramifications of these actions are all too often negative.

Well said. Actually, Kung Lek, you assume a little too much in my post. I'm not trying to bait you into some kind of wrong position in this. You have an opinion on this matter just like everybody else, and there really isn't a clear cut right or wrong. Since you've never been in the situation before, us arguing about what is right or wrong is a moot point. We'll never know because we weren't there. I was just curious as to how you felt about that type of situation, not trying to bait you into an argument. If you want to PM me with your honest answer, that's fine. I just want to know.

[David Jamieson]

Since you've never been in the situation before, us arguing about what is right or wrong is a moot point.

well, you don't actually know what kindof situations i've been in now do you?

ms2- we have citizens arrest here in canada too.

for the record I have had experiences wherein a situation arose that demanded swift action.

For instance in one of em, My friend and I were sitting in a bar downtown in wiinipeg called the royal albert. Anyway, we are across from the door. Two ladies sit down at the table next to the door and get up to go to the dancefloor. Foolishly, one of tehm leaves her purse at the table.

the area is not so good, and sure enough some petty thief pops in the door sees the purse unguarded, nicks it and runs.

I look at my friend, he looks at me and I say, "should we go after him"? He says "sure" so we bolt out the door after the guy.

We catch up to the guy, I shout "freeze it" lol, and he does! I run up to him and grab him by the scruff of the neck. we had gotten him around back of the place and were in the parking lot.

so I have the guy by his shirt collar, I tell him to hand over the purse. He indicates it's in the laneway. We take him to it and there it is. We pick it up. By this time the girl has shown up.

She was very thankful, she had all her id and important papers in the purse.

So, without inflicting any violence on the guy beyond keeping him from running away while we got the purse, we returned the purse to its rightful owner.

and then we let the guy go unharmed and told him to think about it before pulling it again.

so, is that using my kungfu too? You bet it is.

I have several other tales of the like.

You can work things out peacfully. There is a lot to be said for approach and awareness.

Maybe we're just more civilized in canada? I don't know. I sure wouldn't want to be caught up in a case of mistaken identity in a place where the real knee jerks are the ones who are prepared to inflict violence for petty crime. :rolleyes:

[Reggie1]

Fair enough. Just playing a little devil's advocate, that's all.:)

[cerebus]

Kung Lek, I'm not saying it's right to use excessive force. What I AM saying is that you are going by some "perfect world" scenario that you've played out in your mind. Ideally, yes, security, police, etc will ONLY use as much force as necessary. In real life however it's not that clear-cut. Many factors can affect what happens, adrenalin, fear, potential for weapons, etc.

Honestly, with those who have been in violent situations often, I think it would be generally agreed that around 9 times out of 10 things do NOT go as one might later wish they had. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback (even to oneself after the fact) and say "Oh he (or I) shoulda done this or that or whatever". The facts of the matter are that the criminal was arrested with NO serious harm being done to anyone involved. And THAT, sir, is a successful arrest.

PS: ego, you obviously don't know sh!t about me or what I'm doing. The security job is just an easy way to pay the bills while I continue training toward instructorship in the arts I'm currently studying (such a thing would never even have crossed your mind, now would it?).

[rogue]

since when do employers have the right to have private aremies or private police forces.

Pretty common down here. We have an office park that retains it's own deputized armed security force. Most major companies retain armed security forces, Microsoft and Disney both have excellent security forces .

[David Jamieson]

you are going by some "perfect world" scenario that you've played out in your mind

no cerebus, i have plenty of real life situations that i can bring to mind wherein problems that could have been potentially violent have turned due to my approach of not getting panicky, not getting afraid and by looking at things for the way they are.

Of course things go awry, but that is no reason to go off on someone for a minor crime. I've taken some serious lickings and I've witnessed the same happen to others up close and personal.

Training in martial arts will bring some of you to a point where you do not over adrenilyze and are able to hold a clear and cognizant outlook of the situation at hand. Or this can come from life experience. With a bit of both, one can bring a peaceful end to a potentially bad situation in my opinion.

I began with my coarse remark mainly because kneeing someone in the face when they are down is not in my opinion a "use" of martial arts or martial arts training. In my opinion, it was excessive and also was admittedly done from fear. This is something that can seriously interfere with the dudes chosen profession and can actually get him into a whole mess of trouble.

so, I don't agree with the pre-emptive strike approach. I see it as dastardly in intent and in action.

Rogue-

I am aware of private security, it really isn't much different here. Except that only military, prison guards, federal, provincial,civic police and brinks cars drivers can have guns.

Brinks guys protect cash and are the only ones who are not actual policemen.

I realize that the firearms laws are different in the states and that in turn necessitates armed security. But private armies are different from an armed security force. I would imagine that the armed security peeps are probably a tad different than your average walmart loss prevention employee though. Wouldn't you?

[cerebus]

"I've taken some serious lickings and I've witnessed the same happen to others".

Fortunately that's ALL that happened. Come on down to Oakland, CA. We have several murders (stabbings, shootings, etc) basically every month. Try to stop or apprehend a criminal down here and you'd better have your weapon drawn with the guy in your sights before you even make your presence known (yeah, even with the pettiest of crimes). A bit different from getting beat up.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Cerebus,

If there's one thing I respect about you is that you're a hard nose no nonesense cop. You're a cop through and through, you wake up a cop, go to sleep a cop. Infact, cop work is probably all you'll be good at, but you're probably very good at it. So well done - that's a compliment from me.

I agree with what you say. My commanding officer used to tell us. He says " When you engage an enemy, you hope for the best but prepare for the worse".

[cerebus]

No, that's actually just confirmation that you've got your head up bl's arse. That's what THAT is. :)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i've only made it through page 2 thus far, but i wanted to add that i have a buddy, who in a moment of paramount stupidity, was the criminal in question.

he had just moved into town, and was hurting for money as he hadn't found a job yet, but he was living with a friend and a roof and food wasn't in question. in fact it was cd's that he bought with the stolen credit card.

he was arrested at home, spent a couple weeks in jail, paid some fines, and earned some probation and community service. he learned his lesson and wouldnt even think about doing something like that today.

my point behind all of this was that had he been chased down and kneed in the face while being apprehended i doubt it would even be a story for him. if it was a story the knee to the face would be a minor detail. granted this dude is big and about as tough as they come, but i don't now anyone personally that would actually cry about getting a boot to the head under the circumstances. i know i wouldnt.

i understand that the punishment must fit the crime, but you also have to take responsibility for your own actions. if you run from a cop you have to accept that you might get beat up if he catches you. it sounds to me like the dude actually got off easy.

[Tak]

I actually agree with KL here.

The security guard probably was guilty of simple assault. The fact that he was a security guard doesn't mean **** - he might as well be a cashier or a janitor or a stripper. Although, there might be a line to get kneed in the face by strippers...

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by cerebus
No, that's actually just confirmation that you've got your head up bl's arse. That's what THAT is. :)

if you think your city, town, suburb is the only place this jazz happens, you are greatly deluded! Welcome to life in the real world where most of us don't have a badge to justify our misdemeanours to humanity.

[cerebus]

bl, try reading the posts. You're just repeating something we all know already.

And what does your comment have to do with the post you're quoting me on? I was responding to your puppy dog talking like an eejit. Either house train him or keep him outside please. Thank you. ;)

[blooming lotus]

just yet another example of your charcter , but let's stick to the discussion on this one ha :cool:

[cerebus]

Typical. She goes wandering off all over the place and tries to tell ME to stay on topic. :rolleyes: Your ignorance is showing bl, as always.

[blooming lotus]

but back to the topic....

[cerebus]

Which is exactly where we were 'til you hopped on & derailed it... as usual. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[blooming lotus]

:p :rolleyes:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Cerebus,

Are you guarding an empty warehouse today? If not, check the security cameras instead of the internet.

BL,

"if you think your city, town, suburb is the only place this jazz happens, you are greatly deluded!"

What you said makes lots of sense. People tend to think, it will happen to someone else and not them, so they don't take necessary precautions. In a physical confrontation, things happen very quickly and I don't think words can adequately describe the events on the forum. It is not so much the threat from the theif, but the percieved threat the security guard feels when he tries to apprehend the thief, Of course if you are highly trained, then maybe you have more options.

I see this situation similar to cooking pork, better to over cook then under cook.

[TenTigers]

Rogue-yep, one of the best jobs I ever had-all i did was hang out in the bookstores and read, and when they put me in mobile unit, I drove around listening to the radio-and gained a good ten lbs! I would open up at 7;30 have breakfast, hang out, and leave at 4;00 and open up my school in time for 4;30 class. I love gettin paid for doing nothing. But I could NOT stand that dang Smokey the Bear HAT! The only time I would put it on my head is if the Mall Mgr was walking around, or my boss. I used to carry an automatic extendable baton-cause my boss didnt know what it was-otherwise just mace and cuffs-and we really werent allowed to carry even those. Basically Mall Guards are there as a deterrant. and do not apprehend. However, we always were there as backup for Macy's and other sec'y guards. Basically, if a perp steals and the store mgr wants to detain him for police, we stand there in case the perp tries to attack the store owner, but if he wants to walk out, we basically hold the door open for them. This actually has never happened in my experience. Most of those guys would stay and wait for police like idiots.
So Rogue...did I throw ya out of the mall when you were a kid?:)

[rogue]

TenTigers, I worked there too at Abraham & Strauss back in my college days, before McCrorys burned down. I restrained a shop lifter once and the security guys almost passed a brick. They were following him but the idiot lifted something right in front of me and thought I didn't notice. I confronted him in a friendly way and got him before he could run. The store security was on him within two or three seconds after me. They came back later and made it plain that I had nothing to do with it, I never grabbed the guy and I was just a bystander. Don't know what would have happened if I was called into court. I used to hang out with the girls working cosmetics. Remember Rabs and Ritchie Baratys(sp) place across the street? The Tally Ho diner?

[TenTigers]

Yeah, I remember Ritchie-after he closed his school we used to train at my school with him and some of his guys, then at Buttles. I was at his funeral-pity. He was very scientific in his approach to technique and what worked (for him) and what didn't.
Here's a claim to fame...the guy who burned down McCrory's trained at my school. I met him at the job and he signed up. After the fire,(before he was caught) we were all sitting on the floor of my school stretching, and bull***ing, and I tend to joke around (you? No. Really?) so I say,
"Y'know...Charles, YOU are always the FIRST one to arrive every time there's a fire."
"Ya' know...Charles......they said that the fire was started by a cigarette...........YOU smoke cigarettes, right Charles?"
We're all alughing, and Charles is sitting there laughing, but that nervous weird kinda laughing,kinda looking around. Well, that week, he confessed. I like to think in some way, I was instrumental to his confession. He supposedly cracked under the pressure of interrogation, and he had said he was really hungry and they didn't give him any lunch. Frankly, it waould take more than me not getting a ham samich to make me confess to 2nd deg. murder. Now, funny bones, totally different story. I would kill for a funny bone and glass of milk.
Hey Rogue, there was a real hot blonde bombshell who used to work in A&S, and she had a kinda skeevy boyfriend. Do you remember her?Kinda Dolly Partonish, Always dressed to the nines, fmp's, the works.

[rogue]

No DP types when I was there, but there were some really fun hotties. Must have been around '84, '85 when I worked there. My wife and I were engaged back then so my chasing hotties was a thing of the past by then. I do remember a gal named Stacy. I remember meeting Ralph Maccio at A&S, and Jerry Cooney too. Wussie factor here but we used to work out at Lucille Roberts, I think we paid $100.00 for two years. Rabs was nuts and my wife didn't like it. Those were fun days for me. I was just up there this summer for some beach, sailing and eating. Can't believe Northport movie theater is closed. Lotta cheap dates there.

Where was your school?

[TenTigers]

My school was at that time on New York Ave, in the heart of "Little ElSalvador", we moved down into the village for about 4 years, but it was a mistake-it might have been a nicer area, but there was no parking and way too expensive. Right now I'm on Depot Rd. in a "fringe" area, above a laundramat-bigger location, plenty of parking, cheap rent, and totally accessable. If yuo're ever in the area, feel free to drop by.

[rogue]

Ten Tigers, Were you close to Saint Hughs? The Rose and Thistle was our meeting place. Sunday breakfast at Saviaros. I used to know where Depot road is but I can't remember now. **** I was up in that neck of the woods this summer. Wish I knew where your school is. What style do you teach?

[rsoliman4]

Allow me to make a very politically incorrect statement -- Rodney King DESERVED to get beaten by the LAPD. He was loaded on PCP, the "high" still in his veins. King refused to pull over when ordered NUMEROUS times by the police, then resisted arrest when taken down. I believe, though, that the police used the incorrect amount of force on the guy -- THEY SHOULD HAVE KILLED HIM, instead. Rodney King was given the tazer, but he kept coming. Shows you just how focked up Mr. King was. Sure, he won the lawsuit and it got him millions. BUT, you DON'T enable a monster to be an even bigger monster than he already is! Now, King is broke as a joke -- the millions spent, the family torn asunder, racism's poster boy Rodney King currently lives on the street (if he's not in jail).