Seaching For Lama Style Vcd

[lamakwoklee]

I am still searching for technical knowledge (exercises form, etc.), iof the Hap Ga/Lama Pai/ Pak Hok styles. I want to gain this information for my personal training purposes. I am seeking this in the form of training manuals, digital video, or VCD. I am perfectly happy to reimburse the efforts of anyone willing to assist me in accomplishing this as efficiently and expediently as possible.

[MasterKiller]

Why don't you just contact Steve Ventura or David Ross directly?

http://www.nykkgym.com/nyk/kungfu.html

[lamakwoklee]

I have been in contact with them, communication has been cordial, but hit and miss. Perhaps those gentlemen might be of assistance. I would hope so, but I must explore and keep an open mind toward all options. Aquiring the knowledge is my primary goal, and nothing else.

I feel I must be willing to accept authentic knowledge from any source, whether it comes from a Hong Kong gangster, a Manilla street brawler, or a New York gym owner. The knowledge is the key, not it's point of origin. When I face off with a mugger who'd snuff out my life for ten cents and a Timex, he's not going to ask the lineage of the one who taught me the pau chui I hit him with.

Thank you fro addressing my request with a civil and positively constructive tone. In this you truly display martial ethics.

[Sang Feng Fan]

Lama Pai Master Chan Tai-San had a few from New York, you might want to try this Sifu.


Link (http://www.greencloud.com/index.html)

[lamakwoklee]

Thank you Sang Feng Fan, for your response. I am 1500 miles from New York, but perhaps those you referred me to could suggest something that would be useful. Would that others who have posted on these threads could be as helpful as you. The mission would have been accomplished by now. By the way, I'll keep the quote at the bottom of your post in mind when I recieve destructive responses.

May I use it?

[Sang Feng Fan]

Please feel free to quote anyone you like, including me.

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

lamakwoklee :


is evident you are a teenager or a person very inmature . is evident you don't know nothing about kung fu . what is all that comic book dialogue about " The mission would have been accomplished " , " The knowledge is the key " ????
i am from southamerica and i know some lama pai forms and i have some material you could use , but i 'll never share with so arrogant person like you . do you really think you could find secrets of one of the most closed door policy kung fu systems through a magazine internet forum ? you are very crazy .

sang fen fang

your stupid quote about retarded people is a shame . special athlets are always a source of inspiration and faith for all .
i never see a thinking more low like yours .

[Sang Feng Fan]

Your grasp of English is very limited, the quote makes fun of those who argue here, not the mentally retarded.

You should stop criticizing people as a substitute for making intelligent contributions to the forum.

You also shouldn't post in a language you do not grasp fully, it makes you look stupid.

[lamakwoklee]

My friends, GARRA DE TIGRE and Sang Feng Fan. I've met interacted with many different kinds of people on this message board. Some interactions have been positive. Some interactions have been negative.


All I can really write is that, the best way for us to speak is with mutual respect. We should be able to argue our points of view about the nature of martial arts without resorting to personal attacks against those with whom we share a love of the martial arts.

On my part, I extend the hand of friendship to all members of this board. I extend my hand even to those with whom I disagree. I am grateful to those who can contribute positive suggestions to me in my search for knowledge.

Thank you, GARRA DE TIGRE and Sang Feng Fan for your input, and I welcome further positive suggestions and assistance. :)

[HopGar]

hmm..Someone sounds condescending....I don't see any problem with someone who is learning english trying to use it....I'll bet your parents or grandparents sounded exactly like Mr. Garra, unless your ancestors are from England.

On the subject, contact David Ross, Steve Ventura, or David Chin in NC. You can try Sifu Ku Chi Wai or Kevin Kaley here in ATL (Atlanta, GA,) but I don't think they teach anymore (Then again it's been a little while since I was last there.)

Check out tibetankungfu.com. I know there is a manual around, but I don't know anything about it..email the lama pai practicioner in England.

Peace

[lamakwoklee]

I thank you for your contribution HopGar. I realize how easy it is for good discussion to degenerate into a vicious tit-for-tat squabble. This is why I appreciate people like GARRA DE TIGRE, Sang Feng Fan and you, who go out of their way to write things that can help me.

I can't afford to go to New York right now. But the instructrors you all have suggested have good reputations. I am particularly impressed with Sifu Gus Kaparos of Green Cloud Kung Fu. Perhaps one day I will be lucky enough to study Lama Pai under him. In the mean time I am depending on the generosity and kind assistance of the members of this board who can contribute material to my training. :)

[cerebus]

There are actually three manuals in the English language on Hop Gar and Tibetan White crane that I'm aware of. These are: "Hop Gar Kung Fu" by David Chin and Michael Staples, "White Crane Gung Fu" by Michael Staples, and "White Crane Kung Fu vol.1" by James I. Wong and Ralph Caputo. There is also book titled "Tibetan Kung Fu, Way of the Monk" by Michael Staples.

The first three books are technical instruction manuals and the last one is a bit more theoretical and the only "technical" sections are on footwork and stances. Unfortunately, all three books are out of print and very hard to find.

[HopGar]

Cerebus
No kidding. And if you do manage to find one, it's going to cost you a crapload of money because they are so rare (way over 100 bucks.)

Diego, don't you have some pages from Chin's manual? (if you remember the site you had on yahoo/geocities from a few years ago)

Peace!

[cerebus]

I actually have all the ones by Staples. I've been trying to get the one by Wong & Caputo for years now.

[HopGar]

You have them? That's pretty cool, I wish I was able to find stuff like that. Anyhow, I think the guy in England might have some of the manuals (his name is steve something or another, I can't remember it now, it's not ventura)

Peace!

[cerebus]

Also, Sifu David Ross once had a set of videos out on Lama Pai. He mentioned that he may do some more now that he's returned to teaching the traditional arts.

[lamakwoklee]

cerebus,

I remember that series of tapes. In fact, I owned one. I would've purchased more, but back then I was a teenager. That tape was lost years ago. I would dearly love to have that series of tapes now. I've been in contact with Sifus Ross and Ventura, but as they're busy we've been playing phone tag.

The spirit in which which I first approached this board didn't help my case(mea culpa). Neither did a bitter exchange with a fellow board member. However as I wrote, hope springs eternal. Perhaps those gentlemen are in a more forgiving mood. I'm exploring all avenues, and remain open to all options.

lamakwoklee:)

[diego]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
I would hope so, but I must explore

lmao you do sound like a robot like fupow mentioned...i must explore lol or at least dan akroyd in coneheads talking about defacation chambers and sh*t
peace

[lamakwoklee]

Forget you. Was that non-robotic enough?

[diego]

Originally posted by HopGar
You have them? That's pretty cool, I wish I was able to find stuff like that. Anyhow, I think the guy in England might have some of the manuals (his name is steve something or another, I can't remember it now, it's not ventura)

Peace! yeah i still got that geocities page kicking..The englishman you are refferring to is Steve Richards and he has a Lions roar book in the works...not sure when it will be complete

http://www.tibetankungfu.com/steve_richards_books.htm

scroll down to the bottom

[diego]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
To hell with you then. You want me to do it the hard way. It will be done the hard way. I've made other plans. I'll have what I want without question, so f**k you. Was that non robotic enough for you.

i was on the phone can you say that again?:)

[lamakwoklee]

It's odd that your posts bear Ng Yim Ming's picture.

[diego]

why is it odd?

[Palmer]

diego,

It looks odd because you have another persons name underneath Ng Yim Ming's photo. I know he went by Harry but I thought he was Harry Ng.

[diego]

Originally posted by Palmer
diego,

It looks odd because you have another persons name underneath Ng Yim Ming's photo. I know he went by Harry but I thought he was Harry Ng.

i thought ng and wu was the same thing, and if i remember correct my teacher told me his teacher called him harry wu!?

whateva i'll change it anywho:)

[CLFNole]

Wu would be mandarian. Ng would be cantonese.

[diego]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Wu would be mandarian. Ng would be cantonese. thanks for the confirmation:)

[Palmer]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Wu would be mandarian. Ng would be cantonese.

Yes thanks for the clarification. I have only seen his name written in cantonese and since I cant write/speak either I had no idea.
:)

[lamakwoklee]

I'm reviving this thread that was forced off topic by "flame-baiters". I'm still searching for Hop Gar/ Lama Pai/ Pak Hok; excercises, illustrated forms, training notes, and home-made CD's/VCD's. If you have these, private message me for details, and further discussion.

[Palmer]

I thought you made other plans? You going back to the original plan again?

[lamakwoklee]

That's still there, and I'm preparing for it. The simplest route is still the best. I won't write about the choices others made, but for me the first option is the ideal. Get learning media now, train with it, correct and polish it with a teacher when the chance comes. I realize that many forum members don't agree with this, so I won't go deeper.

READ THIS PART CAREFULLY! I only want martial arts (Hop Gar-Lama Pai-Pak Hok) training notes, exercises, drawn forms, and burned CD's of forms performances. I don't expect these things for free. Many forum members disagree with this as well, so private message me. The other things that creep into these posts can be left for another time, and another place. I don't expect from a kung fu master, what should be got from a girlfriend, and a priest. ;) !

[ngokfei]

you still at it.

Man are you persistent. Bordering on annoying if I may be so frank.

Why don't you write a letter of Sifu Ventura or Sifu Ross to find out how much it would cost for copies of their Lama Series.

Your wasting so much energy this way.

Hate to say it but just from your posts If asked I wouldn't recommend anyone of the Lama/Hopga/White Crane Sifu's I know to accept you as a student. Yourjust to evasive to common sense responses.

thats all

[lamakwoklee]

Ngokfei,

Thank you for your response. Even though it's not what I was hoping for, at least it's well reasoned. Believe me I've explored, and will continue to explore every option. I'll exhaust all options because I prefer not to take the drastic step of moving to study a kung fu style. You relocate for college, work, or love, not for kung fu.

I can write nothing else, I thought that if I asked the posters of this forum enough, one would assist me. It requires little effort to post some training material. You see the result. I choke on the bitter pill of your derision, and refusals. I vomit it back up at your feet. I'll grit my teeth, pack my bags, and take care of business.

LKL

[cerebus]

I left my job with IBM, moved to California (from Vermont), spent 8 hours a day for 2 months trying to find a job & apartment and spent Thanksgiving week of '02 living on the streets as a homeless bum.... for Kung Fu.

If you want it badly enough, you'll do what you have to. ;)

[CharlesDaCosta]

lamakwoklee,

I am sorry I don't have any material, and I have also found that it is some what difficult finding info.

However I have to ask:

What is driving you? Why are you so interested in Lama ....

There probably are other types of kung fu near you, so why not give them a try?

Where are you located (FL or the midwest)?

How old are you?

Sincerly,

Bell

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by cerebus
I actually have all the ones by Staples. I've been trying to get the one by Wong & Caputo for years now.

Since leaving the US, I lost them too. Why don't you post them ?

I sure there are a lot of others that would be interested, and if they are out of print, the copy right should have ended.

[diego]

http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/12Longfists_Of_HopGa.html

paste the longfist continuation link in that link to see all 12

i can give you the rest of the tech's if you don't have them

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by diego
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/12Longfists_Of_HopGa.html

paste the longfist continuation link in that link to see all 12

i can give you the rest of the tech's if you don't have them

Thanks for the review, it has been a long time since I have seen that book.

I have been trying to get may hands on an English translation of "The Lions Roar Treatiese" by Ng (at least that's what my teacher claims) My email address is dacostas@post10.tele.dk

I have a copy of the Original plus some old articals, all in "Old Chinese" and I have not found any one that could translate it.

[diego]

Originally posted by CharlesDaCosta
Thanks for the review, it has been a long time since I have seen that book.

I have been trying to get may hands on an English translation of "The Lions Roar Treatiese" by Ng (at least that's what my teacher claims) My email address is dacostas@post10.tele.dk

I have a copy of the Original plus some old articals, all in "Old Chinese" and I have not found any one that could translate it. doesn't Sifu Ross have degrees in chinese orsomething?...maybe you should see if he can help with the translation!?

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by diego
doesn't Sifu Ross have degrees in chinese orsomething?...maybe you should see if he can help with the translation!?

I am not sure who you are talking about, however, I do know a David Ross. He was one of the first ... in Lama Pai (this would be back in the 80's to early 90's).

If it is him, I have tried to reach him for the pass 4 or more years. If it is the same person and you know how to reach him, tell him Charles (the white crane guy) said hello -- to help him remember, In DC, we exchanged VHS tapes. I gave him all the forms I learned and he gave me a copy of all his forms.

Tell him also I lost the two tapes in moving to Denmark.

[diego]

Originally posted by CharlesDaCosta
I am not sure who you are talking about, however, I do know a David Ross. He was one of the first ... in Lama Pai (this would be back in the 80's to early 90's).

If it is him, I have tried to reach him for the pass 4 or more years. If it is the same person and you know how to reach him, tell him Charles (the white crane guy) said hello -- to help him remember, In DC, we exchanged VHS tapes. I gave him all the forms I learned and he gave me a copy of all his forms.

Tell him also I lost the two tapes in moving to Denmark.

:) i can do even better....here is his forum info...tho i think he got into it with a troll so gene chinjg put them on hiatus orsomething!?:D

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=6217


here's his website from that link: http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/

peace

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
I am still searching for technical knowledge (exercises form, etc.), iof the Hap Ga/Lama Pai/ Pak Hok styles. I want to gain this information for my personal training purposes. I am seeking this in the form of training manuals, digital video, or VCD. I am perfectly happy to reimburse the efforts of anyone willing to assist me in accomplishing this as efficiently and expediently as possible.


The first thing you need to understand is that we are not allowed too. Why -- the forms are ones' certificate --- when I travel and I claim to be a White crane Sifu, other white crane stylest don't want to see certificates, they want to see the forms you still know. Many young white crane sifus only know the first form. So, to give it a way is the same as giving away a Brown or first degree black belt. Or giving away a High school Deploma.

You have to find a teacher and learn the system correctly or your teacher will get in trouble. Historiclly most Lions Roar practioners were experts in other systems first.

In fact we are a catch all, like the term Kung Fu and Shaolin are.

Think about it.

[lamakwoklee]

Thank you.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by CharlesDaCosta
The first thing you need to understand is that we are not allowed too. Why -- the forms are ones' certificate --- when I travel and I claim to be a White crane Sifu, other white crane stylest don't want to see certificates, they want to see the forms you still know. Many young white crane sifus only know the first form. So, to give it a way is the same as giving away a Brown or first degree black belt. Or giving away a High school Deploma.

You have to find a teacher and learn the system correctly or your teacher will get in trouble. Historiclly most Lions Roar practioners were experts in other systems first.

In fact we are a catch all, like the term Kung Fu and Shaolin are.

Think about it.

I have to add:
Where you do see members exchanging forms, it is because each of the grandmasters do them differently (I am only speaking of white crane, the others I don't know about). So, often students under one grandmaster will travel to learn how another grand master does it (training -- especially forms).

Also, some times the students from different masters are friends, so they share their teachers version by what ever means necessary.

After all, even thought our teachers may be different, we must still be able to recognise each other. This I learned from the Chinese first hand -- I am not sure if most non-Chinese had got this information yet.


If there is no one around for you to learn from, try not to let your hunger get the best of you. I began studing white crane and shaolin at a university. Maybe you should think in that direction first.

To a Mahayanaist, wisdom is the key.

[lamakwoklee]

CharlesDaCosta,

My initial contact with the Tibetan-Chinese Martial Arts "establishment", has lead me to believe that I should keep my own cousel, and go my own way. Thank you for your advice.

LKL

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
CharlesDaCosta,

My initial contact with the Tibetan-Chinese Martial Arts "establishment", has lead me to believe that I should keep my own cousel, and go my own way. Thank you for your advice.

LKL


Good Luck !!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Study and practice seriously. Training has no boundaries. Seek ye first wisdom, and all things shall be added.

[lamakwoklee]

There's just nothing positive that can come from further commentary.

LKL

[lamakwoklee]

Sir,

I trusted to luck. We see the result of that! I asked for TCMA, but I got so much more. Now I know what to be wary of. Now I know what to accept, and what to reject. Better to be enlightened from the begining.

Eventually I'll achieve my goals in the TCMA, and I'll do it owing nothing to those who renegue on their words, and talk circles around their lack of integrity, by spouting fortune cookie philosophy.

LKL

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
Sir,

I trusted to luck. We see the result of that! I asked for TCMA, but I got so much more. Now I know what to be wary of. Now I know what to accept, and what to reject. Better to be enlightened from the begining.

Eventually I'll achieve my goals in the TCMA, and I'll do it owing nothing to those who renegue on their words, and talk circles around their lack of integrity, by spouting fortune cookie philosophy.

LKL

I have a feeling that you are letting your hunger get the best of you. I am sorry to think this, and forgive me if I am wrong. But if I am right, please listen.

First, understand that your approach is abnormal to the most members of the system. Those that are fighters would think that you want to steal the secrets so that you can use them against them. Those that are into fighting will think you have not earned the right to learn them (this can be so extreme that some teachers have two versions of a form – one for demonstrations and the other is the original form).

Also, if you are not trained in the basics, or are extremely good and diversified in other similar kung fu styles, a VCD of the forms would be a waste of your time (if you really want to learn them).

I had a similar problem. I was after a document that my teacher told me about. It described most of the principles Ng Su Ching (Misspelling) used to describe white crane. I had hoped to get a copy and make an English translation public for all to see (I considered it sad that if you could not understand Chinese, 90% of the principles you would never get).

I found out that some one in CA (USA) had a copy -- and it was even translated into English. This made me extremely happy because I just assume the guy would have shared my desire. So I thought he would just send it COD. But he refused to send it to me, because he did not know me personally and he considered the document a relic. Yes this made me a little sad, but I know that this is how people tend to be with things they value.

I also found a guy in the Philippines with an un-translated version, he sent it, but neither one of us could read it; and all the Chinese I asked could not translate it either (it is in an old form of Chinese). Now I understood why my instructor was not interested in the document and did not care to send it.

I approached the American again to see if he would change his mind. He "could not". I had to accept this and move on. This took effort because anger and regret kept trying to hunt me.

A friend told me that I had no right to be anger, unless I believed others had no right to say "no" to me. I thought about this for a while. In Buddhism, this kind of thinking is a sin, a stain on the character.

Now, I also appreciate the man who said no, because he helped to expose a side of me I needed to work on. This is the essence of all Buddhist martial arts, including The Lions Roar. We are ruthless (with the self), unending in our attack (on mental stains), …, because Buddha nature is the only real goal to us.

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by CharlesDaCosta
I have a feeling that you are letting your hunger get the best of you. I am sorry to think this, and forgive me if I am wrong. But if I am right, please listen.

First, understand that your approach is abnormal to the most members of the system. Those that are fighters would think that you want to steal the secrets so that you can use them against them.

Those that are into fighting will think you have not earned the right to learn them (this can be so extreme that some teachers have two versions of a form – one for demonstrations and the other is the original form). .

Good Grief! What century is this? Come on, afraid of stealing fighting secrets to use them against them. Stop drinking the paranoid flavor coolaid!

The guy wants to learn Lama.
Either tell him no (and why), or teach him. What's he going to do?...Tell the whole world all of the Lama secrets? Sorry, this is getting a little too comic bookish.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by SiuHung
Good Grief! What century is this? Come on, afraid of stealing fighting secrets to use them against them. Stop drinking the paranoid flavor coolaid!

The guy wants to learn Lama.
Either tell him no (and why), or teach him. What's he going to do?...Tell the whole world all of the Lama secrets? Sorry, this is getting a little too comic bookish.

I think your right but that is what I have been told.

[lamakwoklee]

CharlesDaCosta,

You strike me as being an honorable man. I can't say the same for all those whom I've encountered in the TCMA orbit. The person who told you that old B.S. might be the same one who renegued on an offer he made to me, or denied his identity, and pretended to be a secretary on the telephone. Take what they tell you with a grain of salt.

LKL

[diego]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
CharlesDaCosta,

You strike me as being an honorable man. I can't say the same for all those whom I've encountered in the TCMA orbit. The person who told you that old B.S. might be the same one who renegued on an offer he made to me, or denied his identity, and pretended to be a secretary on the telephone. Take what they tell you with a grain of salt.

LKL

in this day of mma holding secerets is kinda lame...however i can see why wouldn't want to teach secerets as look at the paulie zink/monkey king issue...that is still using the secerets against one....all the frauds out there claiming shiat off copying your forms etc

i mean back in the day under imperial rule or whatever a sifu could be charged if his student committed murder...nowadays one has to worry about the frauds trying to murder they styles reputation...so secerets still hold