how far is one's SLT training goes?

[yellowpikachu]

how far is one's SLT training goes?


Can one achieve the state of capable of selecting between beta and alpha brainwave?

will one enter the training state with Beta?
What is the state to be able to cope with Pressure?
If one know how to switch from Beta to Alpha knowingly with SLT training how far can one goes in the path of handling pressure?
how can one develop/cultivate that watcher to know which state one in?


http://www.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm
http://www.tc.unl.edu/stress/Peak%20Acheivement/APA-PAT


PS>
all of these are questions in the MDX modeling building process.

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

Where do we find this mind tuning in SLT? Thanks!

P.S. I was earlier want to talk about Stress Overload method, but on the 2nd thought, perhaps it is another topic.

[anerlich]

The management of stress and development of focus while under stress require incremental exposure thereto while performing the task at which one wishes to succeed.

Performing an MA form does not place one under the stress of fighting. You could learn to do forms well in storms, with loud noises, on a rocky floor, etc., but this will make you a forms expert, not a fighting expert.

Meditation, relaxation drills, visualisation, etc., can allegedly assist in learning to manage stress. Biofeedback could help you learn to control your brain waves, etc. Some experiementers at an Australian university found a way for people to control electrical equipment, at a base level, by putting their brains in a certain state. Facility with this control was gained, not by meditating or doing MA, but by pracvtcing the task at hand and getting feedback from the results. At some time they hope to be able to help quadriplegics, etc. to be able to control more complex machines in such a fashion.

I suggest you look up their work rather than be a non-scientist trying to duplicate it. You (or rather one of your other screen names) have set the precedent in showing that posters (me) have no obligation to answer questions or assist others in understanding, so I'll leave you to it!

What you are talking about may be possible. I challenge your assumption that doing an MA form at the same time will be a vehicle. I suggest it will be an *obstacle*.

So why not do the *specific* mental exercises on their own, instead of complicating the issue with trying to do a form at the same time?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by anerlich

So why not do the *specific* mental exercises on their own, instead of complicating the issue with trying to do a form at the same time?


Body and mind are one. body can influence mind, mind can influence body. both has to be align (sp/) . sometime, using mind to influence body, and sometimes use body to influece mind, a multi dimentional feedback control system.

awareness is more then mental it is an "all" which include physical body.

in my understanding,
That is how the set being design, it is a multi-dimentional , parallel, adaptive processing control system..


Thus, I have heard,
The most difficult part is about developing the Watcher --- for that which is watching and knowing one is in strees and pressuse is beyond stress and pressure. working through and Beyond the Watcher, then Original face is there and reveal, The thoughts with speculation/logic are in one level, the watcher is another, the non-dual is another. that is what the Shao Lin called the unmoveable heart, the always present, the original face, the non dual.... etc
similar to peeling onion, layer and layer being peel.

the next is about transcent the physical body, emotion, thoughts, habitual, and conscious, or the five skadals. because even if one "knows" the body, emotion, thoughts, habits, conscious might still react.

One has to be able to "see" what is one's issue to handle it.

[PaulH]

That is more or less the old training. Body on body. Body on mind. Mind on Body. Unmind on mind. Thanks, Anerlich and Hendrik! You guys just illuminate my light bulb! =)

[old jong]

I think "mental exercices" will have effects in all activities equally and will surely help in martial arts.I also think that it does have effects when done in a form like SLT but it is more geared for a specific use by being associated to physical motions,without losing any all around general benefits from mental only exercices.
I think biofeedback,zazen,meditation of all kinds have all similar values and effect on the mind/body unit.How we name these things is not very important.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by PaulH
That is more or less the old training. Body on body. Body on mind. Mind on Body. Unmind on mind. Thanks, Anerlich and Hendrik! You guys just illuminate my light bulb! =)

sounds like an orgy :D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong

I think biofeedback,zazen,meditation of all kinds have all similar values and effect on the mind/body unit.How we name these things is not very important.


yup, all has to return to NOW to start.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
I also think that it does have effects when done in a form like SLT but it is more geared for a specific use by being associated to physical motions,without losing any all around general benefits from mental only exercices.


yup.


Thus, as I heard,

as it said,
to reach a state of ---- Dong Jing Yee Ru ( in madarin), or "moving (dynamicly) and being still (staticaly) is in-different (same)"


with the Unmoveable heart or wisdom as the master. (note: unmoveable heart is beyond the Watcher of the thought, since the watcher still has a subjective of watching something)

The whole "things/ mind/body" transcent into --- Ru ru Bu Dong, or Thus Thus immoveable. ( note: thus thus = "as it is", it is trying to express a multi-dimentional awareness with words. which is a cant be done. so, "" as 'it' is "" is used as a symbolic term to communicate /pointing with those who "knows" the 'it'. Thus thus or "as it is" has no meaning by itself. because this is beyond the realm of thoughts and in the direct intuitive realm ).

It is something multi-dimentional.....

[PaulH]

Ernie,

You have got some imagination! =D

[Ernie]

Originally posted by PaulH
Ernie,

You have got some imagination! =D

by the looks of the post on this thread [ I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE =)]

i keep getting images from '' one flew over the coo coo's nest ''

the men in the white coats are coming to get you :)

[PaulH]

Give me liberty or give me death! I hate being a vegetable! =D You fight for me, big brother? =)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by PaulH
Give me liberty or give me death! I hate being a vegetable! =D You fight for me, big brother? =)


i fear it's to late ,
i think you lost you d*mn mind long ago by reading to many of these rubix cube threads :)

but i'm a sucker for a lost cause so i got you back :cool:

[PaulH]

True! I walk on a thin wire, bro. You jumping up and down on one end and Pikachu dancing on the other end of the pole. Balance is never easy. =)

[old jong]

Originally posted by PaulH
Ernie,

You have got some imagination! =D
You bet!...It takes some to train a dog as we saw!...;)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
You bet!...It takes some to train a dog as we saw!...;)


now OJ
you left yourself wide open for a nasty come back on that one :D

but it would be just to easy like kicking a puppy or beating up chi sau guys ;)

[anerlich]

sounds like an orgy

Ernie, you are sick :cool: The only orgy I'd involve myself with with Hendrik would be an orgy of destruction. I haven't been able to watch your pikachu vid yet, but anyone who find them sexually alluring needs to spend time on a nut farm.


Body and mind are one. body can influence mind, mind can influence body.

No sh*t, Sherlock. :rolleyes:

Why is SLT so great for learning to manage brainwaves? Or stress? Why introduce the noise of performing an MA form at the same time as trying to control the mind?

If you wanted to learn to surf, would you try to do so while reciting poetry or solving Fermat's Last Theorem? Well, YOU might I suppose, and end up a crap surfer.


That is how the set being design, it is a multi-dimentional , parallel, adaptive processing control system..

No it ain't. At least I don't think so, most of the above is content-free, meaningless, jargon. Yet another hamfistedly inappropriate cybernetic analogy (YAHICA).

SLT is a means to practice MA techniques, and a rather limited number of attributes, without a partner. WC is a fighting art, not a vehicle to mental or spiritual expansion. If it WERE meant to be the latter, I propose it be scrapped as such, as the empirical success rate is abysmal.

[Ernie]

Ernie, you are sick ,




------------ this has been said to me before :)


------------- dude you must see the video and report back i promise you will laugh till you cry

[yylee]

Originally posted by Ernie
Ernie, you are sick ,

---- dude you must see the video and report back i promise you will laugh till you cry

That video only reflects your tastes, Ernie.

I didn't laugh nor cry..... what's so funny? Perhaps I own dogs before, don't find it surprising.

BTW, I won't use that video against a friend, honestly.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by yylee
That video only reflects your tastes, Ernie.

I didn't laugh nor cry..... what's so funny? Perhaps I own dogs before, don't find it surprising.

BTW, I won't use that video against a friend, honestly.

love you too:p


there’s a prude born every minute


OH wait that might be offensive , oops to late said it out loud

get over yourself
:rolleyes:

[t_niehoff]

anerlich wrote:

SLT is a means to practice MA techniques, and a rather limited number of attributes, without a partner. WC is a fighting art, not a vehicle to mental or spiritual expansion. If it WERE meant to be the latter, I propose it be scrapped as such, as the empirical success rate is abysmal.

**Yup. WCK is one approach toward fighting and a means of training that approach. The sets, including the "SLT", are just a part of that training. No linked set or "form" has value in and of itself but is simply one step in the training process -- and its value to each of us, as an individual, can only be determined by how well it served us in that process (did it assist us in increasing our fighting performance?). If it hasn't helped us become a better fighter, the "SLT" turned out to be useless for us.

**Anyone can propose a "theory" on the "SLT", what it is supposed to do, or anything else for that matter. But since the "SLT" is done with the idea of producing some results (if it's not, then why do it?) -- those "results" should be our focus. It seems to me that what we should have a two-step inquiry to determine the validity of any "training theory": is that alleged "result" actually produced and does it serves us in increasing our fighting performance. Absent that, it's all just more hot air.

Regards,

Terence

[YongChun]

Originally posted by t_niehoff


**Anyone can propose a "theory" on the "SLT", what it is supposed to do, or anything else for that matter. But since the "SLT" is done with the idea of producing some results (if it's not, then why do it?) -- those "results" should be our focus. It seems to me that what we should have a two-step inquiry to determine the validity of any "training theory": is that alleged "result" actually produced and does it serves us in increasing our fighting performance. Absent that, it's all just more hot air.

Regards,

Terence

It's not possible to prove that the SLT did anyone any good in the ring. It has never been proven before. There is no correlation between bringing out your Tan sau slowly and beating a Thai boxer in the ring. No Thai boxer even uses a Tan sau nor does a BJJ stylist. But hitting the bag, full contact fighting and wrestling have proven to be useful in competitive fighting. So that says scrap the former and do the latter.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by t_niehoff


**Anyone can propose a "theory" on the "SLT", what it is supposed to do, or anything else for that matter. But since the "SLT" is done with the idea of producing some results (if it's not, then why do it?) -- those "results" should be our focus. It seems to me that what we should have a two-step inquiry to determine the validity of any "training theory":

is that alleged "result" actually produced and does it serves us in increasing our fighting performance. Absent that, it's all just more hot air.




a characteristics of Wing Chun in the old time was said to be similar to that Curve knive (sacal? ) use to cut padi. where it will cut inward with curve not straight. strange that such thing is rarely seen today.


Fighting is great but where is one going to find that sacal (s) characteristics today? without even known what is possible, what result one will get on the subject? NONE.

Get rid of all the ancestors teaching on SLT and go doing some mma is great for fighting. but is it still Wing Chun?

sure one can redefine SLT today as one likes it. a Freeworld.

we have already define SLT with broken arrow, change it with Hung Gar structure big stance to root, add in TKD kick. next will addin ground fighting.. why not? a great Localization Evolution to fit every one's fighting needs. a Free will to prepare and updating SLT! :D

[Vajramusti]

"sure one can redefine SLT today as one likes it. a Freeworld.

we have already define SLT with broken arrow, change it with Hung Gar structure, add in TKD kick... why not? a great Localization Evolution to fit every one's fighting needs."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure. Down with SLT. Dont need to stand in that silly stance.
Use boxing footwork. Use TKD kicks at kicking range.
I dont know what Localization Evolution is- but its ok lets get local lets evolve.
Goodbye wing chun.
I am going home to my city by the bay.
And then on to the city that never sleeps.
I picked up a bag full of results- on the cheap.
Moon river- I am going your way.

[PaulH]

OL’ MAN RIVER
(oscar hammerstein ii and jerome kern)

Old man river, that old man river,
He don’t say nothin’, but he must know somethin’
That old man river, he just keeps rolling along.

He don’t plant tater’s,
And we all know he don’t pick cotton.
But them that plant ’em, are soon forgotten, that
Old man river, he just keeps rolling along, oh yes he does.

You and me, we sweat and toil,
Our bodies all achin’ and racked with pain, now listen!
Lift that bar, you’d better, tote that bail,
And if ya’ get a little drunk,
You’ll land in jail.

I’m so weary, and sick of tryin’,
I’m tired of livin’, but afraid of dyin’.
That, that god-darn’ old river, he just keeps rolling along.
Keep on rollin’ along.

Keep on rollin’ along.
Old man river don’t you stop your way.
Keep on runnin’ from the north, the south, the east or west,
You gotta roll it
--------

=O, =D, =)

[Vajramusti]

That lucky ole sun
he just rolls in the heavens all day.

Frankie Lane's chi gung- while doing the slt

[old jong]

I think SLT was inspired to our ape men ancestors by a strange black monolith!...They then threw their bones in the air and assumed a tan sau posture.The slightly bent knees stance was already typical of that era.

BTW,could this explain why so many standing in front of Ali Hamad Rahim experience a mild "déjà vu" feeling?...;) ;) ;)

[Vajramusti]

Tan sao? What's that- Ernie sez- the angle of the dangle no importante.
On ward through the fog.
Forget wing chun. Keep results.

[PaulH]

I think it's comical somewhat to watch people here arguing in endless circles. They should know by now that the longest distance is between two points of view. Ray sometimes ago had an excellent idea. Just present your facts, and let the people vote on it! We should learn to obey the 1st law of Thermodynamics. Be a real conservative! Liberal use of energy is not economical and wingchun-like! =)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Tan sao? What's that- Ernie sez- the angle of the dangle no importante.
On ward through the fog.
Forget wing chun. Keep results.

is perpendicular to the heat of the [ well you know the rest ]

joy it is good to see your whimsical side =)

but I do have a serious question ,

if in SLT we are taught the concept of the wing Chun engine [ straight spine , compact body ]
and most people doing wing Chun have this similar idea
why then is the wide stance broken hip being used
wouldn’t this go against the basic idea of SLT

and for Hendrik

what drew the previous generations to the more compact straight spine engine

threw all the different arts and training systems I have investigated this is the one thing that is most unique about wing Chun

I have seen tan bong and fook in many systems , it’s all part of the FMA as well as vertical fist and phoenix eye

But the body engine and posture is different

Just thinking out loud

ps JOY

with your current stand on [GOOD BE WING CHUN ]

you remind me of http://rodneydangerfieldrip.ytmnd.com/
Rodney Dangefield of the forum
:D :D :D

[old jong]

I have seen tan bong and fook in many systems , it’s all part of the FMA as well as vertical fist and phoenix eye

But the body engine and posture is different

I always said that Wing Chun is more about structure than techniques. Power cultivation and delivery can also be different even if the "shapes"of hands techniques are looking the same.Different delivery systems need different body structures. IMO anyway!...
;)

[Ernie]

Jong
I agree with you wing Chun is beneath the skin and bone of the visual structure ,

First we learn the bone , become stick figures
Then we learn the skin – start to feel not just react
But then we must develop soul individual expression

Breathing life into a dead mechanical man

But for now I’m curios of the engine , and why some would stray , the engine is like the trunk of the tree , the techniques , hand shapes and so on are just leaves and twigs easily replaced and interchangeable

But why this particular trunk ?

[old jong]

Look's like we are looking for the "roots" of Wing Chun?...The roots could maybe explain the "trunk"?...
If we look at different trees,we see trees with very wide roots to keep them from falling under the wind pressure.These are usually hard essences like oak or maple,not very flexible.
The trees with narrow roots like spruces, prunes and others are usually flexibles enough to not "go against the force".They deflect by bending just enough and swing back like "rattan"
It is said that Wing Chun uses "rattan power"
Does this make sense?...

[Ernie]

Yes Sir it does
This would also explain the need for higher sensitivity cultivation , they would work hand in hand , if I feel I need to change quickly then I need a [trunk] that can interrupt and adapt at the same speed
But also a energy source that could do damage as well

Interesting

[old jong]

Ernie my son!....Ahem!...:rolleyes: We are actually in agrement!...History in the making!...:D

Very interresting!:)

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Ernie


is perpendicular to the heat of the [ straight spine , compact body ..... what drew the previous generations to the more compact straight spine engine

threw all the different arts and training systems I have investigated this is the one thing that is most unique about wing Chun

I have seen tan bong and fook in many systems , it’s all part of the FMA as well as vertical fist and phoenix eye .....






perpendicular? straight spine? compact body? ....... Tan, Bong and fook in many systems?


If Wong Wah-Boh still alive. He would say"
wow, that is a great Localization Evolution isnt it?

What the heck you are talking about Tan Bong Fook and you dont even have that sickle.. :D

and I am not going to tell you where that sickle applied.

dont bug me with the art of NO sickle! buddy. I dont know what it is.. after all of the Localization Evolution ! :D

You want to add in Ground fighting similar to BJJ to SLT great! why not? :D:D:


--------
well, this is just the drunken dreaming pikachu posting, not Wong Wah-Boh. hehehe
if I know as much as wong, then I would say " Red Boat, we have a problem.! " :D:D:D

BTW, how the STRAIGHT spine echo the once upon a time the Snake and crane Wing Chun? :D

Oh, it is a I-robot era. so spine is straight!
A Localization Evolution!

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Ernie my son!....Ahem!...:rolleyes: We are actually in agrement!...History in the making!...:D

Very interresting!:)


We agree a lot more then you think OJ
I often take an opposing stand [ wear the black hat Evil Ernie persona ] to draw out information and for a healthy debate and the occasional time I just feel like being bad =)

Now along the same logic
If we were to replace our base with a wider broken hip design we would gain stability but lose mobility and interuptability , this would cause us to take more of a ‘’ stand ‘’ a harder approach in a sense

Or have to stay at a longer distance

In this case the limbs [ braches ] would rule the trunk

The energy would be based on momentum not short burst and higher reliance on speed would be needed to cover the air space

This would be in theory a long version of wing Chun

If so the core engine would never be cultivated for short burst

The sensitivity would not be needed in the same fashion either

This would violate the core concept of SLT

Yet still could use wing Chun fighting concept , which is experienced gained from the application of SLT

Now things can get strange

[Ernie]

Hendrik ,
my strange friend
the concept of the sickle[ curve ]as you put it was given to me the first day i learned how to punch , nothing special about it .

pick up gary's fighting dvd and he goes into a detailed explination about it .

the rest of the stuff you said is you negitive energy not mine

i asked an honest question about striaght spine compact body short power

and wide stance broken hip

i would welcome you idea's on why the compact version was chosen

and why in recent times

the wider version is popping up

just a free conversation on a open forum take it or leave it

consider it an olive branch

[yellowpikachu]

Ernie,
my strange friend
your sickle is not my sickle. :D



the rest of the stuff you said is you negitive energy not mine. ---- Ernie.

Hehehehe, I post it with positive and smile, how can it be negative? :D


i asked an honest question about striaght spine compact body short power and wide stance broken hip
i would welcome you idea's on why the compact version was chosen and why in recent times the wider version is popping up --- Ernie

Great honest question.
and my answer is---
It is a LOcalization Evolution !
Those who evolve it will be able to tell you the answer better. :D

but dont get me wrong, I am sure seriously that every of those evolution was made with a good reason.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Tan sao? What's that- Ernie sez- the angle of the dangle no importante.
On ward through the fog.
Forget wing chun. Keep results.

All this get pretty funny after awhile. Some people find the best way to cope with the world is to treat it like one big comedy show. British and Dutch humor is particularly good at making fun of their politicians. Perhaps Wing Chun will produce some good comedians in the future if nothing else.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Ernie,
my strange friend
your sickle is not my sickle. :D


----- as long as you wash your hands after you play with your sickle it's all good --------but really how can you claim this we have yet to meet hmmmmmmm---------------------------



the rest of the stuff you said is you negitive energy not mine. ---- Ernie.

Hehehehe, I post it with positive and smile, how can it be negative? :D



----------- smiling faces have many meanings ---------------------------


i asked an honest question about striaght spine compact body short power and wide stance broken hip
i would welcome you idea's on why the compact version was chosen and why in recent times the wider version is popping up --- Ernie

Great honest question.
and my answer is---
It is a LOcalization Evolution !
Those who evolve it will be able to tell you better. :D


------ so your answer is to ask someone else cool no worries ------


:D

[Vajramusti]

Ernie asks:

joy it is good to see your whimsical side =)

((From Sbatini's(great swashbuckling story writer) opening line in Scaramouche-(sp?) He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad))

but I do have a serious question ,

((love those occasional ones))

if in SLT we are taught the concept of the wing Chun engine [ straight spine , compact body ]
and most people doing wing Chun have this similar idea
why then is the wide stance broken hip being used
wouldn’t this go against the basic idea of SLT

((Wide stance? Broken hip? Not in my ygkym. The base of my stance is only slightly wider than my shoulders creating a pyramid...when built right a very stable structure. Keeping the straightest path of energy up and down the spine is the key.
The spine is not naturally straight specially with accumulated posture habits Both wing chun and taiji work on developing the most efficient gravitational path and gravity is one of the most basic ever present forces. Chinese and Indians didnt call it the gravitational path but they knew/know what it is.The path uses the mother line- jung sum sin . In my sanskritic language it is the "sirdhara"-or seer dara-a nasal dara sound--
the straight nerve energy pathway. The difference between wing chun and taiji is the adjustment of the kua- the inguinal.pelvic area of the hip. In wing chun- because of the kua- a slight tilt and sinking straightems the lower back so that you butt does not stick out. Energy flow, sufficient rooting and readiness for pouncinng, moving results. An efficient path from the ground to the hands.... with several transformers along the spine))
From the top of the head to the tailbone- the wing chun path is the same as yoga in some of the key asanas-postures.
The ygkym is NOT an easy stance to learn. folks can do it wrongly for years.

I can show these things in five minutes face to face- but on the net-there is just mostly noise and few really at home.))

[yellowpikachu]

but really how can you claim this we have yet to meet hmmmmmmm---------------------------


I dont claim this, I just present to you what is it out there, there are lots of different sicle in the world.





so your answer is to ask someone else cool no worries ------

one will not know others' reason. WE evolve our own art. The thin guy, the fat guy, the big guy, the small guy... all in one way and other tailor the art consciously or unconsciously.


That is why one need a MDX. that way, we have a tracking of what happen in every dimention. and up to now,

if you have the same body size as your sifu, great. if not then they might be a problem because what your sifu do might not applied to you. it is just very nature, because we dont live in others body, and most of the time we dont know how others body is like.

That is why we need theory, so we can understant things better.

[Ernie]

JOY --
i too come from the compact structure camp , but i keep an open mind and seek simple expression and application

in combative application [ not chi sau ]

were do you see the benifits of both approaches and the negitivies

keeping it simple

i have my own idea's but it's often nice to see from others POV



Hendrik

i just talked my friend out of a mdx and he got a armada instead

he also wanted a h2

lot's of options

[yellowpikachu]

Ernie,

I have a 2003 MDX now looking for this:D


http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/porsche_cayenne_s_2004/14505/style_overview.html;_ylt=Ap8Xfv4tc1WHHQNfufdwRaIkf L8F


drive faster when get older! :D

[Ernie]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Ernie,

I have a 2003 MDX now looking for this:D


http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/porsche_cayenne_s_2004/14505/style_overview.html;_ylt=Ap8Xfv4tc1WHHQNfufdwRaIkf L8F


drive faster when get older! :D

i don't know dangerous to drive fast when you get old those reflexs are not the same as the used to be ;)

[old jong]

Ernie!
You talk about a long version of Wing Chun and keeping Wing Chun's principles!
I'm not sure if I get your idea!...IMO,Wing Chun principles demand the Wing Chun body structure. Using an other body structure (wide and lower stance) would demand a very different power delivery system similar to hard styles Gung Fu or even Karate. I don't mean it would not be effective but it would be something else.
The mechanics of a wide and low stance are good fo resisting force but,it is not what we should be looking for.(even if it is surprisingly possible with good Wing Chun structure) :)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Ernie!
You talk about a long version of Wing Chun and keeping Wing Chun's principles!
I'm not sure if I get your idea!...IMO,Wing Chun principles demand the Wing Chun body structure. Using an other body structure (wide and lower stance) would demand a very different power delivery system similar to hard styles Gung Fu or even Karate. I don't mean it would not be effective but it would be something else.
The mechanics of a wide and low stance are good fo resisting force but,it is not what we should be looking for.(even if it is surprisingly possible with good Wing Chun structure) :)


Jong ,
I agree I don’t see how it would be the same core art if the ‘’core ‘’ was changed , but keeping an open mind thought I would toss the idea around .
Which brings us back to cultivating the core and transferring that energy into combative application ,
How would you cultivate this ‘’core ‘’
And keep it honest in application
Obvious answer is chi sau but that would only answer about half the question and then chi sau become a million different things =)
So were would be find the honesty of application

And would that attempt to apply effect the design of the core

Just wild thoughts

[Vajramusti]

Important distinction between structure for optimum developemt purposes and making creative adjustments in real usage.

[old jong]

Ernie
I don't think the Wing Chun structure is designed for Chi Sau and forms only and we need something different for fighting. I think it is not so different from boxing altrough we step-slide instead than we "dance" It is very "alive", the way I was taught anyway!...

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Important distinction between structure for optimum developemt purposes and making creative adjustments in real usage.

Beautiful , JOY

There is a difference from the [ training system ] to the [ application system ]

But what effect should one have on the other ?

Were is the balance ?


If all I do is get a few basic idea’s and fight then I will become a good at applying and adapting , yet I will never really grow beyond my few idea’s and eventually have to make stuff up to fill the gaps

If all I ever do is stay with in the walls of the training system then I will not know how to adapt or what best suits me as an individual under pressure , so I can make up millions of concepts and drills with in the training system that will only work with in the training system


Could these situations have caused the wide variations in what people perceive wing Chun to be ,

If so then how do we find the balance point ,

Is the core SLT our road map ?

If so how do we read it and use it to navigate the road and which road best suits it ?

How far can SLT take you is the original question

How far are we willing to go to find out ?

[Vajramusti]

Ernie- both coming back to the core and varied experience is important.

Experience is great but realignment of the wheels of the car is important too after driving over crazy terrain.

Chum kiu gets one started with stepping and turning but without good slt one wobbles in chum kiu and develop duck kung fu-quack quack.

[PaulH]

Actually the spine is never quite "straighten" but more of a naturally lengthen and elastic curve of the torso and back region. To do so, the head needs to be aligned so that it is natural relaxed and feel like floating up from the crown. The lower back likewise should have its own natural lumbar curve. Adjust your tailbone accordingly so that it does not stick out the rear causing undue tension in the lower back. Another error is to tuck the tailbone excessively to the point that its upper/lower body connection is destroyed losing leg and hip power. Okay, here is my poetic line: "Lifted up to Heaven and hold down by the Earth, WC spine knows no equal!" Ha! Ha! You owe me some brownie points for this, Ernie! =)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by PaulH
Actually the spine is never quite "straighten" but more of a naturally lengthen and elastic curve of the torso and back region. To do so, the head needs to be aligned so that it is natural relaxed and feel like floating up from the crown. The lower back likewise should have its own natural lumbar curve. Adjust your tailbone accordingly so that it does not stick out the rear causing undue tension in the lower back. Another error is to tuck the tailbone excessively to the point that its upper/lower body connection is destroyed losing leg and hip power. Okay, here is my poetic line: "Lifted up to Heaven and hold down by the Earth, WC spine knows no equal!" Ha! Ha! You owe me some brownie points for this, Ernie! =)

would you settle for a smiley face:D :D :D :D