Senior practitioner approach to breathing and lifting

[mickey]

Greetings,

I recently had the opportunity to observe someone in their late fifties/early sixties work out. The one thing that really stood out to me was that they inhaled during the muscular contraction phase and exhaled during the relaxation phase, a complete reversal of what is commonly taught. It did not seem to disturb his form at all.

And this guy is strong.


mickey

[_William_]

Hello Mickey,

If I remember correctily, I recall Scott Sonnon talking about this kind of breathing, on the Dragondoor forums. You might want to ask him about this. Its supposed to be more natural or something.

Also if you browse the sandowplus site a lot of early weight training courses advocated this kind of breathing pattern. So maybe this influence rubbed off on your friend.

An example of an old course that suggested this is here: http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Milo/milo-01-01.htm

However, in Vladimir Zatsiorsky's book Science and Practice of Strength Training he states that you can exert the most amount of strength during breath holding, less during exhaling, and least during inhaling. So you might want to keep that in mind. Your max strength decreases substantially when inhaling.

[mickey]

Thank you for that link _William_,

My friend might be on to something.

mickey

[Serpent]

There is also the Valsalva Manouvre, which is holding the breath while lifting as this helps to "solidify" the core of the body and enable you to lift more. However, be VERY careful with this and with reversed breathing as it can have drastic effects, not least of which is a massive increase in blood pressure. It would be wise to discuss this with a strength coach as any methods outside the norm (exhale with effort) require specific factors to be considered.

[IronFist]

Holding your breath while lifting can make you pass out. I've held my breath occascionally while trying to DL a new PR, but I would even be very cafeful doing it then. You definately don't want to do it for too long.

PR = personal record.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by _William_
Hello Mickey,

If I remember correctily, I recall Scott Sonnon talking about this kind of breathing, on the Dragondoor forums. You might want to ask him about this. Its supposed to be more natural or something.

Yeah, if anyone has any more information about this I'd be really interested in hearing it.

[Toby]

Yeah, I sort of do the Valsalva. E.g. for squat I inhale, hold, lower, then exhale while coming up. I've heard it's not good, but I didn't learn to do it consciously - it's just the way I lift. I figure it can't be too bad since each rep is only a few seconds at most and that's not long to hold your breath.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Toby
Yeah, I sort of do the Valsalva. E.g. for squat I inhale, hold, lower, then exhale while coming up. I've heard it's not good, but I didn't learn to do it consciously - it's just the way I lift. I figure it can't be too bad since each rep is only a few seconds at most and that's not long to hold your breath.

You know, I wouldn't assume it would be as bad if you're not holding your breath on the concentric part. Now that I think about it, I might squat the same way you described, too. But when I do a very heavy single on DL, I sometimes hold my breath on the way up.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Since you are talking squats...


The difference with the person that I was talking about is that he inhales on the way up and exhales on the way down: no holding of breath. Since I posted this thread, I remembered someone from many years ago saying that this method of breathing while lifting was better for the heart and lungs.

Maybe this was why ribcage expanse given much attention in the past. It also gives a different look to the twenty rep squat program (aka: breathing squats?) if this was the breathing method used.

Again, this guy is strong.

mickey

[Toby]

Originally posted by mickey
The difference ...Yeah, I got it the first time :D. I wouldn't want to try that personally, but interesting story nonetheless. Personally, if I breathed out during eccentric on a squat, I'd probably collapse at the bottom.

Iron, I do that with deads too. I go down, get in position, inhale then hold my breath until I get the bar above my knees and then slowly exhale during the easy part of the lift.

[Shinobi22]

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/21/sonnon3.html
:confused:

[Oso]

I heard once that the best way was to hold at the very beginning of the exertion and then exhale through the rest of the lift.

I have to be carefull with holding my breath during any exertion due to two old, repaired hernias. They've never really given me any trouble since 85 but on real heavy exertions I can feel exactly where the scars are, from the inside.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Toby

Iron, I do that with deads too. I go down, get in position, inhale then hold my breath until I get the bar above my knees and then slowly exhale during the easy part of the lift.

Funny, that's the hardest part of the lift for me.

[IronFist]

I've heard that consciously tensing the abs during DL's and Squats prevents hernias. Oso, you should try that technique and see if it makes you feel any safer. Be careful, tho. I don't want you getting more injured and then yelling at me. I don't want you getting more injured anyway.

While I'm on the topic, I've heard pulling the anus up (the muscle you use to stop peeing) while deadlifting and squatting will prevent hemerhoids. Hey, it couldn't hurt, right?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist
While I'm on the topic, I've heard pulling the anus up (the muscle you use to stop peeing) while deadlifting and squatting will prevent hemerhoids. Hey, it couldn't hurt, right?
Dunno about the hemorroids, but this is a good method to help you stabilise your core when lifting. Be careful not to cramp, though! :eek:

[Toby]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Funny, that's the hardest part of the lift for me. Wow. Maybe my back is stronger and your legs are stronger relatively speaking? For me my chicken legs are the weaker link and the lower half of the lift is harder. I get the bar to my knees with a fairly static back angle. Once I get around my knees my legs are straightening and the rest of the lift is straightening my back to upright.

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
While I'm on the topic, I've heard pulling the anus up (the muscle you use to stop peeing) ...Anus and groin are two different areas IMO. And the latter is what stops me ****ing. I'm not good with muscular control down there (I usually contract both in concert), but I can contract them independently if I concentrate. Lots of c-words there.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Toby
Anus and groin are two different areas IMO. And the latter is what stops me ****ing. I'm not good with muscular control down there (I usually contract both in concert), but I can contract them independently if I concentrate. Lots of c-words there.

You know, I can't do one without the other. They're probably antagonists of each other and therefore when you consciously contract one, the other fires as well, like when you flex your pecs and your lats contract, or when you flex your biceps and your triceps contract. Does anyone else think it's funny that I just talked about the anus muscle "firing?" Haha.

Wow, I'm suddenly curious about the muscles down there. This "pulling up" motion seems to be the opposite of what you do when you're taking a dump. Since you can't contract a muscle two ways, one of those two motions has to be an antagonist muscle firing. Does anyone know?

[Toby]

Interestingly, for my shoulder rehab I have to contract my lat right at my shoulder blade while keeping my pec relaxed. It's not easy and took me a while to learn. I can't maximally contract the lat and relax the pec, but I can contract it a little bit while keeping the pec relaxed.

[fa_jing]

Uh, I think the Hindus identified six layers of muscle that can be contracted surrounding the anus and groin or something like that. Maybe it's in Mantak Chia's book, I'll try to look it up later.

[fa_jing]

Most deadlifts fail on the way up in competition (as opposed to on the floor). But people have different sticking points, and the floor is one of them.