Street Fights Mantis [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

shirkers1

10-14-2004, 12:32 PM

In my training I have come to realize that Northern mantis is so complex that’s it’s simple. To me now looking on it common sense. In that I mean that with all the “advanced concepts” involved in the style it’s still all common sense when applied to actual combat. The idea of MOBILITY, not standing in front of you opponent. Always moving on angles, advancing and receding, etc. The idea of not just hitting the face, striking what ever is within reach. Whether it’s a block or an actual strike. All the tactics in the arsenal of mantis being short and to the point. Aggressive attacks. Using every inch of your body in an attack. So when you are in grappling situations you can use a shoulder for instance to strike or break the rhythm to apply another tactic. Striking with elbows, etc for destruction’s. Multiple tactics at the same time. The ability to be ambidextrous. The sensitivity to the opponents movements, and the opponent himself. The ability to size an opponent up, what type of fighter is he. Among other things all of these concepts involved in the training of mantis, when trained properly are highly effective in street combat.

I like to watch fight videos, sport, street whatever. To get a perspective of how different people fight. Street fight videos are simply great and I recommend every one watch. You get a great insight as to how a fight usually degrades into a wrestling match. Usually because the fighters are so unskilled at stand up fighting. Almost all the videos the fighters are trying to score head shots, when they have so many more targets to attack leaving them out of harms way and possibly ending the fight quicker without having to even score the knock out punch. Or just unskilled at basic punching period. No use of elbows or anything other than lets swing those arms like a windmill. Not putting your **** hands up, tucking your chin and rolling with your shoulders. I mean come on, who cares if people think you look stupid. The real fighter will know you mean business. Either don’t put yourself in the position to get into the fight which is 99% effective or fight. Don’t argue don’t talk if the guys comes near you either kiss him or hit him. Because that’s where it’s going to end up if you keep arguing. If you don’t want to fight then leave. Who cares what any one thinks if you walk away, look at it as you just saved the guy a night in the hospital and you a night in jail. Now those who have spent their youth and young adult hood street fighting know all of this. But I encourage you that haven’t to watch these vids to get a perspective on something other than sport fighting. It could change your views on how you train your mantis and open your eyes to a lot of other things when it comes to street fights.

In my training we’ve honed everything to be direct and to the point. You have all that knowledge of hook lines, straight lines, bridging, trapping, leverage, short power, mobility, when in use with your tactics become like an arrow from a bow. Direct and to the point.

mark

Enforcer-

10-14-2004, 04:58 PM

why don't you post some sparring clips to see where your getting at.

ekaltenborn

10-14-2004, 06:54 PM

why would mark put himself in a position again where you will undoubtedly make unfounded, uninformed and unintelligent comments?.,....... why dont you just spar him tough guy... :eek:

shirkers1

10-14-2004, 07:25 PM

LOL please read. The thread clearly says “STREET FIGHTS” not sparring. Just like all the others you start spouting out garbage when the information is right in front of you. A street fight is a whole new ballpark chief. Like I said I'll map quest you to my doorstep, we can spar or "street fight" share info, share knuckles, I don't care it's up to you. :) Or get your buddies to organize a MCTHROWDOWN here in Phoenix and I'll be there.

E is right I put up some admitingly poorly executed drills that were a small piece to a very large picture and very ignorant individuals decided they knew everything there was to know about what I do just by looking at a 10 sec clip of some bottom of the barrel basic drills. So why am I going to put any more up? I would love to be able to share info with my fellow mantis practitioners. But unfortunately retards like you chime in and ruin it for everyone.

mark

ekaltenborn

10-14-2004, 07:34 PM

he wont do it mark..... hes all tail and no teeth..... just film it if he does...... i need a good laugh..... im sure you ll make him look like a little 8th grade girl.....

eric

shirkers1

10-14-2004, 07:52 PM

Nah just like the guys on bullshido think. I'm just a skinny little white boy with no fighting skill whatsoever, so why bother. It would just be a walk in the park. ;)

But honestly and seriously I have an open door policy. I learned that from my teacher, and I think we should all have this mind set. Anyone and everyone can come in and sit in on a class. It’s all about sharing information and learning from each other. If you want to come and see what we have to offer or share some of your views, feel free without feeling like it’s a challenge and that goes for everyone interested. Because it’s not a challenge, you get what you give. Things like respect, knowledge, information, friendship, etc. You get what you put in, if it's going to be a positive thing then great if it goes the other way well then we'll deal with that when it happens.

I’m always here, it’s my house and anyone that knows me that wants to train will call me up and I’ll work out with them every single day of the week if they like. I figure I’m doing it any ways on my own, and if someone wants to come out other than actual class I’m down and my doors always open. Just let me know.

mark

ekaltenborn

10-14-2004, 07:59 PM

same goes for my place..... its an open door.... cmon over... hang out... do some kung fu. but more importantly come with an open mind and a friendly attitude... and you wont be dissapointed! If nothing else... youll decide my way isnt what you want and move along in your journey... If you like it.... stay and have some fun with us! My group is incredibly friendly and very willing to share information!!! All kidding aside..... everyone is welcome here!

Enforcer-

10-14-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by shirkers1
LOL please read. The thread clearly says “STREET FIGHTS” not sparring. Just like all the others you start spouting out garbage when the information is right in front of you. A street fight is a whole new ballpark chief. Like I said I'll map quest you to my doorstep, we can spar or "street fight" share info, share knuckles, I don't care it's up to you. :) Or get your buddies to organize a MCTHROWDOWN here in Phoenix and I'll be there.

E is right I put up some admitingly poorly executed drills that were a small piece to a very large picture and very ignorant individuals decided they knew everything there was to know about what I do just by looking at a 10 sec clip of some bottom of the barrel basic drills. So why am I going to put any more up? I would love to be able to share info with my fellow mantis practitioners. But unfortunately retards like you chime in and ruin it for everyone.

mark

In a streetfight the person who sucker attacks the other and who goes ape**** on them wins. The mroe agressive, violent, psychotic will win. Or the one who hits the other guy first square in the nuts and drops him wins. You don't need martial arts for the street, prison will probably be a better school for that,

shirkers1

10-14-2004, 10:31 PM

Part of your training is a mindset... Putting yourself in the position to either be in a fight or not. Bottom line, I've seen guys get sucker punched and get knocked out. I've seen guys get hit and it didn't phase them. Not all street fights are ***** fest 2004.

I once again, think you are very in-experianced from the way you talk. It's the fighter who is in control of his emotions and actions that usually wins his fight. Not the guy who goes mad buck wild. Unless it's two retards going buck wild on each other then you could blow out a forest fire from all the windmill punches. That's my point with the videos, you see tunnel vision at it's worst. Untrained wanna bees thinking they are tough ****.

It depends on the fighters involved and a list of variables. Pain tolerance, experiance, etc. I've seen guys take a nut shot and not effect them till after the fight ended. No I've seen guys get their balls grabbed and that was more effective. The point is don't expect a one punch victory.

In my opinion it's who is willing and able to do the most damage. That person is going to win more than he loses. Or walk away with the least amount of injuries.

Enforcer-

10-14-2004, 11:11 PM

according to police statistics the attacker almost always defeats the defender. And a guy who is alot bigger and stronger than you that knows how to fight or is on pcp and has no pain will win anyway. Or even a skinny kid could be in your face and knee you in the nuts than knee you in the face.

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 04:16 AM

enforcer--

with all due respect ..... you havent a clue.... is a 'knee to the nuts' the onlt tactic you know?......my god.... you are something else.,...

maybe you should try video games.... because you live in a dream world

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 07:59 AM

First of all.. MAPQUEST

second of all, a nice toe kick to the nuts is more practical than a knee shot to the nuts. I find in sparring that this happens more than a knee to the crotch. I find my knees end up attacking the thighs more than anything. Occasionally the head, but rarely the nuts.

lastly MAPQUEST!!!!

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 08:01 AM

mark-

just remember to guard your nuts from his knee.....HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

once you get past that... you likely have him beat!!

BeiTangLang

10-15-2004, 10:23 AM

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 10:52 AM

enforcer-

what police statistics?...... back it up with factual information buddy..... im willing to listen (read)..... just back it up with the facts..... if in fact you actually know the facts.

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 11:00 AM

map quest

please

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 11:01 AM

shh... hes busy compiling b.s. police stats!... haha

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 11:28 AM

LOL e that was funny.

On a serious note, I am looking to do some type of throwdown type event here in phoenix. Being that the idea of a throwdown pretty much is what I do any way I don't see this as a problem. Bottom line is anyone is welcome to come train any ways so if it becomes a big thing then we can make a single event and go from there.

Basic rules, but more to be ironed out. ;)

leave ego at the door
anyone wanting to spar or fight make the rules of engagement clearly before hand with each other. Med contact, full contact, light contact, ground fighting, hair pulling, etc.
protective equipment decided among fighters
how long the matches go depends on the fighters, rounds, etc.
be ready to exchange ideas and tactics
all styles welcome
this isn’t fight club it’s an opportunity for different styles to see how the other trains and spars and or fights.

right now I will say contact me through pm and it will most likely be at my place. Unless there is a huge response then we'll look for outside venues.

mark

Reggie1

10-15-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer-
according to police statistics the attacker almost always defeats the defender. And a guy who is alot bigger and stronger than you that knows how to fight or is on pcp and has no pain will win anyway. Or even a skinny kid could be in your face and knee you in the nuts than knee you in the face.

Enforcer, no offense, but have you ever been in a real fight? I had the misfortune in my younger days of hanging out with a pretty rough crowd, and I think I saw just about every kind of fight imaginable. Most of the fights I saw were decided by something other than first punch thrown/landed UNLESS they were a blind-side sucker punch or blind side weapon attack. Any time two people actually squared off, I'd say the first really good shot LANDED is what decided the fight.

I can't tell you how many times I saw some moron toss out about 8 haymakers and miss, while the other person just bided their time and then really lit into them when they had an opening.

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 01:37 PM

excellent point Reggie!

A close friend and teacher of both Mark and Myself has said time and time again....everyone has a great plan ..... until they get punched in the face!

enforcer...You ever been punched in the face?.... I have fought... I have won, and I have lost..... and Im just telling you ... you dont know what the hell you are talking about....

In this case.... you are a real intellectual handicap!!!

One more point.... come try to knee me in the nuts...... I think youll be in for a big suprise...

Reggie1

10-15-2004, 01:42 PM

"everyone has a great plan ..... until they get punched in the face!"

That really does change the whole game plan. I remember learning that one the hard way myself!

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 01:46 PM

me too my friend.... me too....

you are however correct.... having been in a profession for a number of years that has required me to use my training on numerous occasions, I have seen the 'knockout punch' a thousand times....... some drunk swings and swings and swings,,,, and someone (usually a smaller guy) turns out the lights for the drunk!

Enforcer-

10-15-2004, 02:26 PM

im talking about a sucker knee to the nuts which I have experienced. I know a guy who always would sucker knee people in the nuts by grabbing their sholders and pulling them in. He won like every fight.

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 02:32 PM

If you're that close to me you've already been hit. Period, you don't get that close to someone. You don't argue you don't point fingers and talk about who did who's mom. You either walk away or you fight. If the guy comes within kicking range he should already be feeling the love.

map quest

it's very easy just put in your cross streets I'll give you mine and it has a neat little map drawn out to my door step. We can go over all this stuff you are talking about. Unless you're not old enough to drive yet? Maybe your mom or uncle buck can give you a lift?

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 02:51 PM

enforcer- your guy win's because he fights people like you who have no training......

i cant believe i have sunk to the level of debating this with you...... its like talking to a child....

get your mommy or uncle buck to drive you to uncle eric's school for stupid people.... ill be glad to educate you........

Enforcer-

10-15-2004, 04:17 PM

he does it out of nowhere while you are in his face talking or the conversation turns heated. And if you attack him first he could go to the cops (lets say if he has a lawyer daddy) and you could be charged with assault.

btw, Bullshido always makes fun of tma and their training methods as well as they point fingers at people. And they agree with me that the drilling clips lacked aliveness and so would Matt Thornton.

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 04:23 PM

ENFORCER...
WHO ARE YOU?...... YOU ARE A NO NAME WHO IF HE HAS TRAINED ANYTHING AT ALL... HAS DONE SOME LOW GRADE NONSENSE....

SOMEONE WITH JUST A FRACTION OF INTELLIGENCE WOULD KNOW NOT TO STAND CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET KNEED IN THE BALLS...

PLEASE.... TRY TO KNEE ME IN THE NUTS.... BECAUSE IF FOR SOME REASON I ALLOW YOU TO GET THAT CLOSE TO ME.... ILL BE DOING THE FORTY YARD DASH DOWN THE CENTER OF YOUR FACE.....

IM TELLING YOU .... ITS A GOOD THING BEING STUPID ISNT A CRIME.

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 04:27 PM

oh yeah? well yer mom.

come on now this is just getting stupid. for real, the point is most of us here know what is involved in a street fight. Some others have views that differ. But this has turned into useless mumbo jumbo. Lets just let it go.

Enforcer-

10-15-2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by ekaltenborn
ENFORCER...
WHO ARE YOU?...... YOU ARE A NO NAME WHO IF HE HAS TRAINED ANYTHING AT ALL... HAS DONE SOME LOW GRADE NONSENSE....

SOMEONE WITH JUST A FRACTION OF INTELLIGENCE WOULD KNOW NOT TO STAND CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET KNEED IN THE BALLS...

PLEASE.... TRY TO KNEE ME IN THE NUTS.... BECAUSE IF FOR SOME REASON I ALLOW YOU TO GET THAT CLOSE TO ME.... ILL BE DOING THE FORTY YARD DASH DOWN THE CENTER OF YOUR FACE.....

IM TELLING YOU .... ITS A GOOD THING BEING STUPID ISNT A CRIME.

you dont have to be too close. He can reach out and pull you in to his knee by your sholders or neck. And assuming he is alot taller gives him advantage as well.

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 05:43 PM

ok... i can see you are an expert (sarcasm).... so im going to bow out of this debate.....

yu shan

10-15-2004, 06:32 PM

Not sure about this throw down, but would like to visit and train sometime. I do visit a gongfu brother in NMex now and then. Your just an hour away by air. I also look forward to meeting your Shifu someday, I`ve heard alot about him. As for adding to all this posting, I`d rather meet you guys in person and lets bang. I`m ate up with dumb a s s when it comes to this typing sh*t. Much rather train, and I look forward to this opportunity.

ekaltenborn

10-15-2004, 08:11 PM

i train with the same teacher as mark... you will not be disappointed... im very sure you will both contribute and take something away!!

shirkers1

10-15-2004, 08:59 PM

Actually eric is lucky enough to train with mike all the time being that he's in ohio. I only get to visit when time and money permits. :( We can't all have the fun though. ;)

yu shan, I think it's no secret my doors are always open to train. :) Just give me a day or so's notice so I can make sure I'm not out of town or something. But I have plenty of room at the house for you to stay as well, so don't worry about a hotel. Even if jake doesn't mind I can drive out to you guys and train. I think it's only 5 hours depending on what part of NM he's in. Just let me know. I'll be looking out for your message. As for mike I don't want to speak with him but it seems he always has someone visiting. :) Jake knows how to get a hold of him.

mark

ekaltenborn

10-16-2004, 04:12 AM

yeah ...mike is very gracious that way. He always makes it worth the trip. I drive 2 and a half hours one way every week to train; and it is always worth thr drive.

yu shan

10-16-2004, 01:30 PM

ekaltenborn

two and half hours one way... that is dedication. No doubt it is worth it from what I have heard about your Shifu. I`m hopefully going to attend the tournament in April. We should all get together, is your Shifu going to be their?

Shirkers1

I responded to your post on another thread, I`m getting old.

ekaltenborn

10-16-2004, 01:35 PM

yeah some weeks its a challenge getting there... but its always worth it!

Im pretty sure we are both going to be at the tournament... Cant speak for Mark.. hopefully he'll be there as well.

Eric

cmcgee

10-18-2004, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Enforcer-
im talking about a sucker knee to the nuts which I have experienced. I know a guy who always would sucker knee people in the nuts by grabbing their sholders and pulling them in. He won like every fight.

LOL, your kidding right? What I get from that statement is;

1. The guy likes picking fights with people that have no training and would just rather attack without reason. (like a coward)

or

2. You guys just grabass around and have a fetish with balls!

You tell me which one is correct!

You still never really answered the question of what you trained in. I still get the impression that your a 300lb. geek that likes to sit and watch MA movies all week and then think you know it all. If you ever make it to Columbus and decide to sit in on one of Eric's classes, I will make a personal effort to be there.

Reggie1

10-18-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer-
he does it out of nowhere while you are in his face talking or the conversation turns heated. And if you attack him first he could go to the cops (lets say if he has a lawyer daddy) and you could be charged with assault.

That's too funny. So this guy attacks first, but if somebody attacks him first he would go to the cops? What a Nancy! So why doesn't somebody just charge him w/ assault when he knees them first?

Knifefighter

10-18-2004, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by shirkers1
Almost all the videos the fighters are trying to score head shots, when they have so many more targets to attack leaving them out of harms way and possibly ending the fight quicker without having to even score the knock out punch. Which of these targets have you personally used to end street fights?

Enforcer-

10-18-2004, 05:36 PM

1. The guy likes picking fights with people that have no training and would just rather attack without reason. (like a coward)

it was awhile ago that Ive seen this guy (since high school I havent seen him). But he would bully and intimidate people and when someone would start argueing with him or not let themselves be bullied he would knee them in the nuts and possibly hit them while theyre down. And it wouldnt matter whether theyre trained or not trained a knee to the nuts will take you out if it hits hard enough.

Enforcer-

10-18-2004, 07:11 PM

From thread:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14124&page=3&pp=15

Ronin69 who trains full contact karate and judo and has experience with bak mei and tai chi in macao china wrote:

Guys, conditioning your hands, feet, shins, scrotum, arm pits, or anywhere else you feel needs tough, ugly callused skin, is NOT that important, NOT to the EXTENT showed here, ok?

Makiwara training was desgined to strengthen the wrist, calluses were a byproduct/side effect of the training, and they can be removed/eliminated by anyone who wants to, WITHOUT effecting the conditioning.
People have ****ed up hands because they WANT TO.

You CAN'T condition your body to take blows on the vital areas, if you could PRO boxers and Fighters that make millions would have done it long time ago, ok?

The only conditioning you need is what you get from you bag work, sparring and makiwara ( if you do makiwara).
Anything else is for ego purposes, ok?

see there is no conditioning for getting hit in the nuts or throat. And even pro boxers get dropped with one nut shot sometimes (look at Golatta)

shirkers1

10-18-2004, 08:48 PM

K fighter

It was a knee to the balls!!!!! just kidding

Body shot hook to the kidneys. After throwing elbows on his arms. He was done before that last shot, he laid down and balled up. Fight over, no need to go on. Why do you ask?

ENFORCER, I know I'm not the only one to see this. I remember seeing a special on discovery on the MA, and there was this guy who is teaching some new style that actually deals with taking major blows to vital areas. Throat, groin, etc. The people, now I'm talking regular people. Women old men stand there and take full on strikes to those areas. So it is possible. If any one else has seen this help me out with a name.

I for one never have even concidered conditioning my sac for blows. Now the rest of the body is another story, you don't have to have calluses all over the body. It's a matter of iron body training and two man conditioning.

Hua Lin Laoshi

10-19-2004, 06:41 AM

I believe it's called Combat Ki and I don't remember the guys name. I have it on tape somewhere but too lazy to look for it to get the info. I'm sure others have seen it more than once.

They take punches to the neck and kicks to the groin. The neck shots don't look all that clean. I'd like to see them take a good ridgehand and stand around talking about it afterwards.

The groin shots will make you wince just watching.

sayloc

10-19-2004, 06:41 AM

I dont think that most attackers will attack some one that they think can beat them or even give them a good fight.

That may be one reason the person being attacked is called a "victim".

I think that a 5 foot 6 inch "praying mantis master" would think twice about attacking a 6 foot 4 inch 240 lb lumber jack with little fighting training.

SevenStar

10-19-2004, 10:34 AM

that's rod sacharnoski and his juko kai guys. years ago, he had some decent articles in IK before he started his juko kai system.

shirkers1

10-19-2004, 10:43 AM

Sayloc I'm asking in general not to you individually with my response here... ;)

Ask yourself how many people have seen a "street fight" and or a life or death mugging? Which do you see or have actual experience with? I would say the first one more than the second one. Because not to many "men" get mugged. That is my own experience and I think the average person has the same. That being the case a stand up street fight you shouldn't be letting someone get close enough to you to "surprise" you with a knee to the nuts. If that happens you deserve to get your shiat stomped into the ground.

I don't know enforcer has all the police statistics maybe he could enlighten us on what happens more.

With the whole combat ki thing I wasn’t saying I’m down with it or anything. I’m just saying it’s possible. I saw those people taking some blows to vital areas. If any thing it shows you that every one has different pain tolerances. So to say all you have to do is hit someone in the nuts and you are guaranteed a win is invalid

Enforcer-

10-19-2004, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by sayloc
I dont think that most attackers will attack some one that they think can beat them or even give them a good fight.

That may be one reason the person being attacked is called a "victim".

I think that a 5 foot 6 inch "praying mantis master" would think twice about attacking a 6 foot 4 inch 240 lb lumber jack with little fighting training.

exactly, size and agressiuveness and fearlessness matters more than skill. If you lack the size just pick up some blunt objetct, you don't need martial arts.

shirkers1

10-19-2004, 04:55 PM

LOL

isol8d

10-20-2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer-
exactly, size and agressiuveness and fearlessness matters more than skill. If you lack the size just pick up some blunt objetct, you don't need martial arts.

We train with weapons too.

That's all I'll say about that.

Enforcer-

10-23-2004, 03:29 AM

alot of thsoe bullshido guys that criticised your clips have ring experience so you trying to make my criticism less legimate by saying I don't have any ring experience or clips online is a myute point.

shirkers1

10-25-2004, 08:06 AM

Dude we are talking about what "you" have to bring to the table. Not what someone else says. I have ring experience. I have street experience, therefore I can bring a legitimate conversation to the table. When you come back with a response that frankly makes no sense and is plain ignorant and wrong you bring up a thread of what "someone else" said. Even what they say doesn't hold much merit. So why do you keep posting? Why do you waste your time and our time with garbage talk? Why not just take my offer and come work out with me? That way we can settle any indefferences that way, verbally and physically in person instead of over a board? It's as simple as that.

isol8d

10-25-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by shirkers1
Dude we are talking about what "you" have to bring to the table. Not what someone else says. I have ring experience. I have street experience, therefore I can bring a legitimate conversation to the table. When you come back with a response that frankly makes no sense and is plain ignorant and wrong you bring up a thread of what "someone else" said. Even what they say doesn't hold much merit. So why do you keep posting? Why do you waste your time and our time with garbage talk? Why not just take my offer and come work out with me? That way we can settle any indefferences that way, verbally and physically in person instead of over a board? It's as simple as that.

I would watch out making such bold offers. He'll kick you in the balls and hit you with a blunt object because he is on PCP and is more aggressive.

At least, that's what I'll take away from this thread.

BTL: Did I ever mention I miss moderation?

:D :D :D

BeiTangLang

10-25-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by isol8d
I would watch out making such bold offers. He'll kick you in the balls and hit you with a blunt object because he is on PCP and is more aggressive.

At least, that's what I'll take away from this thread.

BTL: Did I ever mention I miss moderation?

:D :D :D

LOL!
Me too.
Who knows; it might make a come-back.

shirkers1

10-25-2004, 12:26 PM

So did any one see that movie death duel of the mantis? Yeah there is this guy who fights mantis against the chicken fist. Well everytime he does the mantis hand this "vrip" sound happens. Why doesn't that happen when the guys in these video clips do it? **** must mean that they don't really know praying mantis kung fu. :( That's too bad. Go joe.

Enforcer-

10-25-2004, 11:35 PM

So you have what kind of ring experience? Just because I diont have ring experience doesnt mean I cant fight. I spar all the time and can use any technique I feel like and even watching thundering mantis I can fight better with mantis than Ive seen in any clip on the net. because I have been sparring for awhile and have the reflexes + cordination to counter strikes just by moving my head in boxing for instance. I dont flinch or close my eyes anymore either, nor do i revert to brawling or ducking while I cover my head. With my delivery system of muay thai + boxing I can use any style I want.

Enforcer-

10-25-2004, 11:40 PM

I live in Socal so how do you expect me to cross hands with you? Id love to though if you come by sometime, you can try out my gym as well. http://muaythaimayhem.com/

Ive sparred with this guy before a few times:
http://www.sherdog.com/images/pictures/2112.jpg
Id like to train cma because I watch alot of shaw brothers movies (before I found a martial art school I was upsessed with learning martial arts and just watched those flicks) and I enjoy the way cma looks and fights.

shirkers1

10-26-2004, 07:08 AM

enforcer

I boxed for a few years before and after I started training in mantis. I had to stop because my mantis was starting to engrain in my movements I kept wanting to switch my footwork and throw out stuff I wasn't suppose to use out of reflex action. So I was too busy thinking what I couldn't do.

From the way you talk I highly doubt you work out at any of these places or even live in so cal. But I'm always in LA it's only 5 hours away from me. I'm down for training with someone else so I don't mind the drive if that's really where you live. I'm off to work I'll look into it when I get there. I'll get back to you.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Enforcer-

Id like to train cma because I watch alot of shaw brothers movies (before I found a martial art school I was upsessed with learning martial arts and just watched those flicks) and I enjoy the way cma looks and fights. Stick with Muay Thai and boxing. You'll do a lot better than trying to fight like a bug.

shirkers1

10-27-2004, 11:33 AM

Knifefighter, he doesn't train mantis. If you've never trained in the style why would you make a comment like that? I know you know how to sport fight, and you have experience. I don't understand how and why you would make an ignorant comment like that.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by shirkers1
If you've never trained in the style why would you make a comment like that? I know you know how to sport fight, and you have experience. I don't understand how and why you would make an ignorant comment like that. Because I believe a style that is based on the way the human body moves would be better for him to train that one that is based on the way a bug moves.

shirkers1

10-27-2004, 11:57 AM

interesting observation.

Then why do you look into a forum that deals with a bug? Why not stick to a MMA forum or Modern grapplers forum? Or why even bother posting on a kung fu forum at all? Being that most traditional kung fu takes after animals it seems like a waste of time for someone like you.

Reggie1

10-27-2004, 12:30 PM

I could be really ignorant here, but I thought that mantis kung-fu wasn't entirely based off of a praying mantis. It had elements of a bunch of other kung fu styles at the time, and added some movements of the mantis in.

Hua Lin Laoshi

10-27-2004, 01:43 PM

Reggie1
Doesn't really matter. It's easier to focus on the bug when your intent is to try to descredit the style.

shirkers1
I think you know why he's here.

Enforcer-
People like you are why I (and others) don't bother to post here much these days. Don't bother replying because I'm adding you to my ignore list. Come back when you grow up.

Knifefighter
Excellent point but

Humans are unique in that they can extend and enhance their abilities through technology after studying other life forms (including bugs) that have adapted for certain conditions. Just about everything you see around you is an extension of our bodies, ie cars, bikes, TV, computers, telescopes, planes, boats. Copying the abilities of animals and such is a perfectly natural thing for us to do and seems to work fine. Failure to use this gift is your loss.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
Copying the abilities of animals and such is a perfectly natural thing for us to do and seems to work fine. Failure to use this gift is your loss. Actually, there is a better way- it is the study of kineseology to determine the most efficient use of the human lever systems.

Reggie1

10-27-2004, 03:34 PM

It seems like a lot of the mantis I study involves efficient use of the human lever systems. A lot of what we learn involves leverage, balance, and all of that.

EDIT: Knifefighter, no disrespect intended. I'm not trying to say that what I learn is the end-all, be-all of MA. I also do not have a lot of experience so please forgive me if I sound ignorant.;)

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Reggie1
It seems like a lot of the mantis I study involves efficient use of the human lever systems. A lot of what we learn involves leverage, balance, and all of that. When you throw a strike, do your body mechanics share a lot of similarities to a baseball throw, shot put, and boxing punch.

When doing a throw, do you have your hips close to and lower than your opponent's lifting him with your hips as a fulcrum?

When doing a takedown, do you penetrate, drop levels, keep your hips under you, keep your back straight and head up? Do you set up your penetrations with angles?

When you apply a submission, do you immobilize your opponent, isolate your oppoent's limb, secure his single limb with both your arms, and use your entire body to apply the submission?

If so, you are indeed making efficient use of the human lever system.

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Actually, there is a better way- it is the study of kineseology to determine the most efficient use of the human lever systems.

Stated thusly, it is clear that you have no idea what praying mantis is really like or about. In mantis, if its not about the most efficient way to use the human body, its not there.
Mantis is not about strength, its about how to effectivly move & react.

Anyone for tighter moderation yet??

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 05:56 PM

If praying mantis is not about utilizing the movements of this insect, then I stand corrected.

sayloc

10-27-2004, 06:39 PM

Get on it Bei! (Moderation that is)

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
If praying mantis is not about utilizing the movements of this insect, then I stand corrected.

Then I'd have to say you stand corrected.

Movements being inspired by a creature of nature is not the same as immitating the creature itself.

The "Mantis" hand itself along with dai bo sim (so my spelling aint that great!) are fantastic tools with multiple usages that have nothing to do with eating your opponent.
Miss-directing, controling, leading, throwing, applying chin-na, breaking: Yes. Eating,...No. At least not the way my sifu teaches it!

People doing "modern"/MMA/Whatever arts are so quick to put down TCMA's amongst others, it's down-right f#cking amazing.

The MA's were not/are not meant for show. They _ARE_ all about using when your life is on the line & I'll bet you that against multiple as well as single attackers they still work & work _VERY_ well.

Just for fun, have 2 or 3 guys "spar" you at one time while using a ground-fighting art. I do it at the kwoon myself. You DO NOT want to spend _ANY_ time on the ground in this situation.
It will get you hospitalized.

Do not misunderstand me. I am a fan of ground-fighting arts & see their usefulness. I just know that when it gets right down to it, unless its in a controlled environment, the chances of me getting mugged my a judoka or tai-boxer are slim & none.
My chances of having to defend myself against multiple attackers is much greater.

I train for the odds. I train to protect myself & my family; Not to see how many people I can kick the @ss of one-on-one.
(Although if you knew me, you'd know that I can handle myself very well in all situations).

In short, Mantis is all I ever see myself as needing in the real world.

Enough of my rant.
~BTL

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
Stated thusly, it is clear that you have no idea what praying mantis is really like or about. In mantis, if its not about the most efficient way to use the human body, its not there. Based on your post, one might reasonably assume that, in addition to being knowledgeable about PM, you are familiar with modern kineseology. If so, maybe you could compare how kineseology supports the methodology that mantis uses for acheiving the most efficient use of the human body for combatives.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
The MA's were not/are not meant for show. They _ARE_ all about using when your life is on the line & I'll bet you that against multiple as well as single attackers they still work & work _VERY_ well. How many times have you used your mantis against multiple opponents?

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
Just for fun, have 2 or 3 guys "spar" you at one time while using a ground-fighting art. I do it at the kwoon myself. You DO NOT want to spend _ANY_ time on the ground in this situation.
It will get you hospitalized.How much BJJ training do you have?

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Based on your post, one might reasonably assume that, in addition to being knowledgeable about PM, you are familiar with modern kineseology. If so, maybe you could compare how kineseology supports the methodology that mantis uses for acheiving the most efficient use of the human body for combatives.

I could, but I doubt that I could fully explain without writting a book & I do not feel the appreciation of what I write would warrant it.

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
How many times have you used your mantis against multiple opponents?

I train against multiple opponents (like I said in my earlier post).
Not in turn, all at the same time. It is fun & enightens you as to what works & what doesn't.

Real-world?? Not yet. Hope it never happens.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
I could, but I doubt that I could fully explain without writting a book & I do not feel the appreciation of what I write would warrant it. If you can't do a quick one or two paragraph summary, I doubt you know much about kineseology.

Knifefighter

10-27-2004, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
Real-world?? Not yet. Hope it never happens. Then you don't really know what works for real against multiple opponents.

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
How much BJJ training do you have?

I have none. Zero. Zilch. I just know I would not want to be breaking someones arm/leg on the ground whilst others are either punching/kicking or worse, at me.

I'm not saying it could not be handled I suppose, but I stand by my statement that staying on the ground in a multiple attacker scenario will get you hurt nontheless.

My opinion. Feel free to disagree. :)

BeiTangLang

10-27-2004, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
If you can't do a quick one or two paragraph summary, I doubt you know much about kineseology.

I could write more than I care to. Replies like this one are why people do not.

shirkers1

10-27-2004, 07:25 PM

Thanks bei for explaining a little in detail the "basic" knowledge of mantis to Knifefighter. After being in the mix for close to 14 years it's common sense to me and you of coarse so when these cats come at you with ignorant rants it boils the blood. I myself have given up explaining these things because it goes in one ear and out the other. Even in knifes post on my other thread he explains what he wants in a style and pretty much mantis covers all of his points. But it doesn't have the "Title" of mixed martial arts so it's inferior and useless to these people.

Since this is my thread I started I say kill it. My point was made I was hoping some other mantis guys could get a read and maybe spark a thought or two about their training. But as per usual the threads get jacked by ignorant rants so please, I know you're itching to pull the trigger. squeeze don't yank the trigger my friend. :)