Why is Punch is not origine from the heart?

[yellowpikachu]

Why is punch is not origine from the heart or mind?


The Wing Chun Kuen Kuit said

Kuen Choong sum faat.
A direct translation will be Punch or strike Orignate/starte from the heart (either physical heart position or mind)

A close look at this translation will see the false of this translation
and concept.


Why?

1, There is no way that all Wing Chun Punch or strike origine from the Heart or Chest position. if one insist that strike has to origine from a particular position such as the chest. That create a limitation and rigidness. IE: when both of one's hand is away from the body, does one want to bring the hand back to the ORIGINE place to start the strike? This is installing a physical limitation in the name of some voodo belives. Doesnt make sense isnt it?



2a, what is mind? that is very abstract. what is mind? This is a gargar land wishfull thought. This is similar to the emperor's new cloth, isnt it?


2b, Mind produce thoughts. Sometimes, people takes thier thoughts and thier mind, their emotion as thier mind.... and thoughts is very board, there is emotion, there is reason, there is reactive, there is responsive, there is habitual ... all kind of thoughts. and which types of thought is one called mind? Then, when one is under pressure one comes up to tons of thoughts which range from Fight, fleet, freeze, confuse, scattered........ect. How is this thoughts and mind be the origine of the strike? This is a confusion, isnt it?



Thus, The translation and the concept of Punch/Strike is origine from the heart/Mind is mis-leading.


So am I right? what do you think?
If I am wrong, that is great.
If I am right, everyone has to cry. :D:D:D

or you just enjoy the will of re-examine everything. hehehehe


While I am singing the old song

I Started a Joke
I started a joke, which started the whole world crying,
but I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh no. ....

[anerlich]

I dunno, I think there's merit in the concept of the punch occupying the central path, thus protecting while attacking, and various other allusions.

I think if you analyse anything too deeply, or treat what are meant to be guidelines as Great, Universal, Eternal truths rather than the nice little epigrams they are, it all starts to fall apart.

"Analysis-Paralysis" comes to mind.

[yellowpikachu]

Thanks for your great view! very reasonable !

[PaulH]

The phrase seems to make sense if the heart is the unmoveable heart from the Buddhist point of view. You got me there! =)

[Tydive]

How about a 3rd translation. That he means that a strike must come from your center... Not in a form sense, but in the sense that it must be driven by your Center. Thus we are talking about the engine, not the wheel.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

yellowpikachu I love your webpage you are very good in what you
do. Keep going tell you blow England off the map. YOUR FAN!!

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

"The heart" has many contextual meanings.
Can easily lead to dogma.

Yellowpikachu has web page? I dont think so Ali.
But then- surprises are part of life..

[PaulH]

Joy,

What are the possible contextual meanings? Thanks!

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

you know you are right Joy. I got it mix up with someone form England. sorry about that guys.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Ali- no worries.

Paul--esoterica? Contexts" So many. Among them...

Emotive-Emotions, Passion, Compassion.

Mechanical- the center of the gates for hand motions.


Mental- Protect and hurt-an important place for both.
Start, stop. run an engine. An important target for char kuen-dont go there!!

[PaulH]

Okay, I see what you mean, Joy. I just made connection of what Hendrik suggests with a phrase I once heard: "Like a clear sky without a cloud, the blade is true."

[couch]

The punch comes from the heart.

This says so much about Wing Chun.

Yes, there is the *deep* meaning about it...that everything that comes out in your Wing Chun is from inside you.

But...look at a lot of the techniques (your lineage may vary):

Tan Sau: I know that when I perform this in the SNT, I bring my fingers to the centreline along my midline and then they push forward. I know that I practise this because this is the way the tan sau should come out. It should stay close to my body and the shoot foward.

Biu Sau: The biu can be quite fast. If you keep your elbows tight to your body, you will allow the biu to occupy the centre and have more strength (as your elbows should be down). Now, the biu can't come from the outside (outside your shoulder area) to block a centreline attack cause then it would be something else. And a good way to block a round attack is with a biu that comes to the centre, and pushes it's way out to meet the attack.

Fok Sau is placed close to the centre.

Bon Sau's intent is towards the centre(look at where the fingers are pointing).

When you bring that Sun fist to the centre, I feel that it is saying a lot. The punch comes from the heart and the elbow is the driving force.

Sicnerely,
Couch

PS, look at the Biu Jee, in my lineage, the punches don't come from the heart, but originate from the shoulder....right from the chamber. But for all intensive purposes...the Biu Jee is there to challenge, bend and break the rules of Wing Chun. (my opinion)

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
The phrase seems to make sense if the heart is the unmoveable heart from the Buddhist point of view. You got me there! =)


But then what is that Ummoveable heart?

if one have never seen the moon , thus cant point at the moon to show other where and what is a moon. That is also a go no where wishfull thinking right?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
you know you are right Joy. I got it mix up with someone form England. sorry about that guys.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)


Your Warior Spirit Keep you too High Bro.
Relax, have some stillness, and open heart pikachu laught :D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
Okay, I see what you mean, Joy. I just made connection of what Hendrik suggests with a phrase I once heard: "Like a clear sky without a cloud, the blade is true."


I know someone just post tons of my post here in other forum.
That is like all cloud without sky :D


Lots of hatret cloud origine from the heart/mind towards the yellowpikachu. Poor guy. Just because I dont believe what he believe in.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by couch

Tan Sau: I know that when I perform this in the SNT, I bring my fingers to the centreline along my midline and then they push forward. I know that I practise this because this is the way the tan sau should come out. It should stay close to my body and the shoot foward.



You just got a big problem there when the Grapper jam your upper arm of the arms which you do Tan Sau.

Now, how do you origine from the heart or inside?

[PaulH]

Okay, Hendrik. The heart/mind is unmovable because it is not attached to anything. Do you mind? =D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
Okay, Hendrik. The heart/mind is unmovable because it is not attached to anything. Do you mind? =D



in modern term, mind is the thinkers.
so,
where is those thoughts from if the mind is not attached ? what is a mind anyway?

do you believe if someone tell you this so called mind you mention is by itself illusive and impermenent? and it is not a theory.

those who attained satori will tell you this socalled mind is just an application of that unmoveble heart?

[PaulH]

I think you are right that mind is commonly associated with thinking. It's not Halloween yet, but something is seriously disturbing about the spiderman that keeps spinning your posts over that net. Man, that is creepy! ={ Okay, Nighty night!

[AndrewS]

Biomechanics and intent.

Henrdrick stop playing games, this is children's stuff.

Andrew

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by AndrewS
Biomechanics and intent.

Henrdrick stop playing games, this is children's stuff.

Andrew


Andrew,
i have no idea what is it.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by couch
PS, look at the Biu Jee, in my lineage, the punches don't come from the heart, but originate from the shoulder....right from the chamber. But for all intensive purposes...the Biu Jee is there to challenge, bend and break the rules of Wing Chun. (my opinion) Couch,
I share that opinion.
While some rules are broken, others are reinforced.
Gotta love Biu Chee. :D

[yellowpikachu]

Switch the Heart or Mind to AWARENESS.

Yes, AWARENESS. and everything unfold itself to tell the story of STrike origine from Heart.

So, what is an Awareness. in today's lay term, it is that "thing" that know we are thinking wthin us. it is that "thing" that when we are a sleep, if someone called our name we will awake even when our thinker and body "sleep". it is that "thing" that when we drive a car eventhough we speak, listerning to music.... we still keep in a proper path.




SLT training goes direct into the Awareness.

So how to do it?

Simple:

just do the set, and experience the process while doing it fully. Then, the Awareness will reveal itself. If one expecting, thinking, controlling, dominating, projecting...... ect, the Awareness is still there but those Thoughts Mask is masking the Awareness to become not that obvious.



The Term Siu Niem Tau means LEss Thoughts. IT means cut down the mind Chatter .....and later be able to know the present of the Awareness.


Thus, I have heard,

There was a wise GM who taugh his student to do Siu Lien TAu or the essence of the detail Training.

So, months after months, the student doesnt get it about the teaching of SLT.

One day, the Student complain again to the GM. The GM looked at him and tell him. " cutting down your thoughts" while your practice the Siu Lien Tau, then the details will reveal itself propotion to the Awareness and inverse propotion to the thoughts.


Thus, there on, the student give a nick name to the set Siu Lien Tau as Siu Nim Tau.

[old jong]

This is when you punch only when you should ;)

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
This is when you punch only when you should ;)

yup,

it one is flooding oneself with the thoughts concern of one doesnt train well yesterday, or one's combination move which one practiced will work or not in the future.

On the other hand, forcing to cutting down thoughts is still thought. taking drug to slow down the mind is not it also.

Masking by the thoughts and Chatters of the regrets of the past and the expectation of the future. When is one living in Now and AWARE of what is going on and what immidiate action to take?

One cannot do A figthing similar to One cannot do a project. One can exercute the immidiate action step.