Any Ng Jou practitioners from the Chee Kim Thong Lineage ???

[Shaolin Fist]

Are there any guys on this forum who train Ng Jou from the Chee Kim Thong Lineage ?

Would like to touch base with any to have some discussions

Simon

[joedoe]

Me. But you knew that :)

[Kennyfist]

Hey Guys,
Can I ask if your Sam Jien form is played like sanchin in Goju or is the dynamic tension cut out and the form played more softer?

[joedoe]

It is there, just done differently. It is almost like a soft dynamic tension, if that makes any sense at all. From what I have seen of Goju Sanchin, it is recognisable as related but clearly not the same.

May I ask what you study?

[Kennyfist]

CLF and other stuff.
Some interest in Five Ancestors but don't know much, so may not be able to tell good Ng Jo from bad or fake.
Maybe you can inform on how to find good Ng Jo kungfu lineage and school?

[Shaolin Fist]

Kennyfist

Good instructor ? ............always a tough call, especially in Ng Jou due to the extensive number of forms and different energetics. So i would question anyone who has had less than 8 years of training especially if they trained in Asia as they normally train at a slower pace than their Western counterparts.

Wont comment on the lineage as that's political and also subjective too in my opinion even though i am biased.

All i can say is that, it helps if you already have a good MA background as they you can recognise good or bad control. And as Ng Jou is a awesome system of Hard and Soft energetics, a good instructor should be able to close you down in Heavy hard to the point of submission or brush you aside with soft control. If he cant do both, then move on !

Also unless you are into just the art side of Kung Fu, a good instructor should be explaining the forms as you are practicing them otherwise its just another way of lining their pockets as they are either holding back or they dont know themselves.



Simon

[Mika]

Here's the website of a dedicated and long-time student, John Graham, of the said Grandmaster: http://www.gorchor.us/

I have met him a few times, he is a nice guy and seems very devoted to the style and the lifestyle of martial arts. He is also known in the area for his MA skills (used to be a cop).

Hope that helps any :)

//mika

[wuzuquan SWE]

Hi Simon

I train the Chee Kim Thong lineage too. I was at the school in KL Malaysia this summer for 3,5 weeks training actually.

I´ve been training Ngo Chor as my main style since -89 and martial arts since -86.

My sifus name is Ho Chiu Sing and is from Kl, he´s been training many styles and for many masters so we do not only train Ngo Chor.
Some vids with him from a demo if your interested.
http://kungfu.framtid.nu/Video/HoChiKung.avi
http://kungfu.framtid.nu/Video/HoSpear.avi

Except Ngo Chor we train Ngok Kar, Pak Mei, Tai Chi and some other styles/sets that also come from Master Chee Kim Thong.

They are very good at the finer points in kung fu in KL but they don´t train as many sets as the students in the west do.
And yes they train VERY soft, the softer the more speed, better hearing and more power you get.

Before I went home Master Chee Boon Teck forced me to do catching hands with all the instructors in a row :-) Belive me its hard even though Im weighttraing and weigh about 100kg :-) and they weigh maximum maybe 70kg :-)
But of course you understand more of why the strokes are like they are and how to use it.
Their knocking hands are also very good, they know the cutting angle I can tell you that :-)

I also got the chance to train with Master Yap wich was great, the way he teaches reminds me very much of how my sifu teach
:-) Master Yap have also been training Ngok Kar so I even got a chance to go thrue some finer points of Ngok Kar with him.

After the trip Im actually thinking of stop training a lot of sets and only train the basic sets in each style. It´s so easy to wanna learn a lot of sets because you´re so interested in learning more kung fu. The problem is that you don´t have time to learn the substance in all the sets so many of them you just train like a dance, no point right?

I also find i very difficult to train some of the northern sets together with the southern, the way to generate power is different in the northern style.

How about you guys who also train Ngo Chor, do you train a lot of sets or you choose some and refine those? Do you train other styles other then Ngo Chor? Do you train northern and southern styles mixed and can you easily switch between the different styles?

Would be interesting to hear your thought of this.

Take care and train hard but soft :-)

/K

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Kennyfist
CLF and other stuff.
Some interest in Five Ancestors but don't know much, so may not be able to tell good Ng Jo from bad or fake.
Maybe you can inform on how to find good Ng Jo kungfu lineage and school?

I don't have anything on the other lineages, but here are a few websites I have for schools in the Chee Kim Thong lineage.

http://www.wuzuquan.uklinux.net/shrewsbury/sy_index01.html
http://www.gorchor.us/
http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ngorchor/

[joedoe]

Originally posted by wuzuquan SWE
Hi Simon

I train the Chee Kim Thong lineage too. I was at the school in KL Malaysia this summer for 3,5 weeks training actually.

I´ve been training Ngo Chor as my main style since -89 and martial arts since -86.

My sifus name is Ho Chiu Sing and is from Kl, he´s been training many styles and for many masters so we do not only train Ngo Chor.
Some vids with him from a demo if your interested.
http://kungfu.framtid.nu/Video/HoChiKung.avi
http://kungfu.framtid.nu/Video/HoSpear.avi

Except Ngo Chor we train Ngok Kar, Pak Mei, Tai Chi and some other styles/sets that also come from Master Chee Kim Thong.

They are very good at the finer points in kung fu in KL but they don´t train as many sets as the students in the west do.
And yes they train VERY soft, the softer the more speed, better hearing and more power you get.

Before I went home Master Chee Boon Teck forced me to do catching hands with all the instructors in a row :-) Belive me its hard even though Im weighttraing and weigh about 100kg :-) and they weigh maximum maybe 70kg :-)
But of course you understand more of why the strokes are like they are and how to use it.
Their knocking hands are also very good, they know the cutting angle I can tell you that :-)

I also got the chance to train with Master Yap wich was great, the way he teaches reminds me very much of how my sifu teach
:-) Master Yap have also been training Ngok Kar so I even got a chance to go thrue some finer points of Ngok Kar with him.

After the trip Im actually thinking of stop training a lot of sets and only train the basic sets in each style. It´s so easy to wanna learn a lot of sets because you´re so interested in learning more kung fu. The problem is that you don´t have time to learn the substance in all the sets so many of them you just train like a dance, no point right?

I also find i very difficult to train some of the northern sets together with the southern, the way to generate power is different in the northern style.

How about you guys who also train Ngo Chor, do you train a lot of sets or you choose some and refine those? Do you train other styles other then Ngo Chor? Do you train northern and southern styles mixed and can you easily switch between the different styles?

Would be interesting to hear your thought of this.

Take care and train hard but soft :-)

/K

I have heard that Boon Teck is a very good NCK exponent. I train under his brother in Sydney. We train a lot of sets but tend to focus on refining a handful of sets, mainly Sam Chien and 20 punches.

We train both the Northern and Southern forms and I have never noticed any problem with it other than that the Northern forms are a lot more dynamic. We do a little bit of the other arts the Grandmaster Chee learned and taught, but our focus is primarily NCK.

[wuzuquan SWE]

Hi Simon, I´m based in Sweden

Just like you say joedoe the nortern sets are often more dynamic but thats no problem. The problem for me is that I´ve been traning so much Ngo Chor that I punch the same way when I train the northern sets wich what I´ve learned is actually not correct.
You can ask Boon Tecks brother about that, he knows what I meen. In Ngo Chor we get the power from the sink, the softness and from that out joints are in "perfect" angles.
In northern sets you use the dynamic in the set to get power, its like you use the hips and the twisting motion more. Also the shouldes tend to be a little more "out" when punching northern style.
Some can do both and just switch between the sets but for me its problem :-(
Please ask Boon Tecks brother, fun to hear what he says about this. I talked to the seniors in KL about this.

Master Chee Kim Thing was very special, he could see a set one time and then he knew straight away how to use it. Of what Ive heard he could also switch between differnt styles without any problem so for him it was only good to train many styles.

For me maybe it makes my kung fu worse instead of better I dont know.

I´m lucky when it comes to application and finer points, my sifu teach all. Like he says you have to work for it to use it anyway or youre only a blackbelt in theory :-)
Also my sifu been competing a lot in different martial arts and I find this experience good for understanding the kung fu better.
For me the trip to KL was a good confirm for me that what and how Ive been training was correct. Of course I learned A LOT of new stuff to!

I train mostly nr 1-4, seldom higher sets then that.
Mr. Yap Jr. taught me one Lady´s set wich also is very good. Short set but very relaxed and with very much substance.

To touch hands with Master Yap can be very good training IF youre good enough. If youre not it can actually just confuse you more instead :-(

I trained a lot with Mr. Yap´s son Boh who I now consider to be a very good friend. He´s alos very good in the finer points and he likes to really try it in sparring to. :-)

I train tai chi because it helps me to relax, like I said I´m weighttraining to and weigh about 100kg so I need more training of softness to improve my kung fu.
No problem in sets but in chi sao, chung sao (dont know the spelling sorry:-) and sparring it´s to easy to use my strenght instead of sink and softness.

Maybe I´m going to Australia next year so maybe we could meet and train then ? would be great joedoe :-) Boh has a lot of relations there as you maybe know.

Are any of you going to the China Convention this december? I know Boon Teck and some of his instructors are going. I was suppose to go but I have problem to raise the moiney :-(

Boon Teck is a very nice guy and he helped me and my girlfriend a lot. We´re definetly going to KL to train as often as we can. Not mainly because of the good training but because we found so many friends there and everybody was so friendly once you get to know them.
Of course some of them test you a little when you come to train but that´s part of the game :-)

Well back to work, take care all of you

/K

[joedoe]

Originally posted by wuzuquan SWE
Hi Simon, I´m based in Sweden

Just like you say joedoe the nortern sets are often more dynamic but thats no problem. The problem for me is that I´ve been traning so much Ngo Chor that I punch the same way when I train the northern sets wich what I´ve learned is actually not correct.
You can ask Boon Tecks brother about that, he knows what I meen. In Ngo Chor we get the power from the sink, the softness and from that out joints are in "perfect" angles.
In northern sets you use the dynamic in the set to get power, its like you use the hips and the twisting motion more. Also the shouldes tend to be a little more "out" when punching northern style.
Some can do both and just switch between the sets but for me its problem :-(
Please ask Boon Tecks brother, fun to hear what he says about this. I talked to the seniors in KL about this.

Master Chee Kim Thing was very special, he could see a set one time and then he knew straight away how to use it. Of what Ive heard he could also switch between differnt styles without any problem so for him it was only good to train many styles.

For me maybe it makes my kung fu worse instead of better I dont know.

I´m lucky when it comes to application and finer points, my sifu teach all. Like he says you have to work for it to use it anyway or youre only a blackbelt in theory :-)
Also my sifu been competing a lot in different martial arts and I find this experience good for understanding the kung fu better.
For me the trip to KL was a good confirm for me that what and how Ive been training was correct. Of course I learned A LOT of new stuff to!

I train mostly nr 1-4, seldom higher sets then that.
Mr. Yap Jr. taught me one Lady´s set wich also is very good. Short set but very relaxed and with very much substance.

To touch hands with Master Yap can be very good training IF youre good enough. If youre not it can actually just confuse you more instead :-(

I trained a lot with Mr. Yap´s son Boh who I now consider to be a very good friend. He´s alos very good in the finer points and he likes to really try it in sparring to. :-)

I train tai chi because it helps me to relax, like I said I´m weighttraining to and weigh about 100kg so I need more training of softness to improve my kung fu.
No problem in sets but in chi sao, chung sao (dont know the spelling sorry:-) and sparring it´s to easy to use my strenght instead of sink and softness.

Maybe I´m going to Australia next year so maybe we could meet and train then ? would be great joedoe :-) Boh has a lot of relations there as you maybe know.

Are any of you going to the China Convention this december? I know Boon Teck and some of his instructors are going. I was suppose to go but I have problem to raise the moiney :-(

Boon Teck is a very nice guy and he helped me and my girlfriend a lot. We´re definetly going to KL to train as often as we can. Not mainly because of the good training but because we found so many friends there and everybody was so friendly once you get to know them.
Of course some of them test you a little when you come to train but that´s part of the game :-)

Well back to work, take care all of you

/K

Yup, the Northern sets generate their power more from the torsion of the body, whereas in the Southern it is more generated from the vibration and heaviness.

I have also been lucky enough to touch hands with Mr Yap, and he is extremely tricky. So soft you can barely feel it and he conceals his movement so well.

KL is a lot fo fun and is an incredibly instructive experience. I know about the testing and it is funny but a little annoying too. As you say, just part of the game.

If you are coming to Australia be sure to let us know and I will organise for you to visit the class and my teacher, Chee Boon Seng.