boxing jabs

[Enforcer-]

when your fighting on the streets with no gloves, and when you jab do you aim for the nose, chin, or throat?

[ShaolinTiger00]

Chin.

Do you want blood all over you (nose) or do you want to set up a knock out?

and imho a "throat strike" will be very hard to do against a free standing opponent and you'll probably miss and hit his collar or neck muscles and just **** him off.

[Enforcer-]

well you cant really knock anyone out with a jab. So your setting him up but wouldnt it hurt your fist more by hitting his chin with a jab not a hook or cross) since its a pretty hard area?

[Mr Punch]

He didn't say you could knock anyone out with a jab, he said 'set up a knock out'. But apart from that some people have very powerful jabs and some people have very weak chins...

What makes you think your hand's going to be any safer with a cross or a hook? I mean sure, if the hook hits the ganglion, the ear or the temple but those are pretty small targets. Otherwise there's the side of the jaw rather than the chin, but that's probably not far off as well protected as the throat.

My answer is just hit them. If I'm using boxing in a street fight, I'm not gonna wanna use it like I would in the ring... ie, jab for position, or to keep him at my chosen range and then get in with some power shots... well, I am but the time scale is such that I'll wanna jab once to keep him at my range and to open him up, and then just beat on him/run away/tackle him/knee him etc.

Sure, I can aim under pressure in the ring, and that's gotta help, but pretty much the whole head's a hard target so I'm gonna have to hope my hands can stand it... or use palms or some non- boxing tech.

And btw ST00, I've seen people go down with a good nose shot, and I've seen people stand up but definitely not want any more with a good nose shot, so I wouldn't rule that out either, esp as a soft target.

[Liokault]

The Idea that you can set up anyone in a street fight is probably faulse.

in my experiance, people will just rush you and have only minimul concern for their own defense.

This makes jabs along with feignts worth much less on the street than in the ring.

But every street fight is differant and it is impossiable to impose any rules to them and as such I find punching some one on the nose satisfiying.

[Enforcer-]

so it doesn't matter where you aim the jab? And what do you do if they rush you and are much bigger and stronger and will probably manhandle you in a clinch (or throw you threw window if you let a clinch occur)?

[Liokault]

A jab will not stop a bigger stronger guy man handleing you in a clinch.....your training should stop a bigger guy domination you in a clinch, not any individual move!

If your training dosnt do this, change your training.

if a guy is rushing you a jab is probably the last thing you want to be doing and if you are good enough at punching to make a jab work here then there are so many better punches that have a much better chance of stopping a guy that could be used.

[MantisFistMonk]

I believe it depends on what your going for.

For instance, you can use a jab to disorient whoever your fighting, by throwing them at the eyes sockets/forhead area.

That would be good for say a jab/jab/slip left - left hook.

If done correctly that would push the opponents chin up for your left hook.

If you do the same thing but hit the opponent in the chin, your jabs would push his chin into his chest which would be harder to hit.

You can utilize jabs to control distance etc.

It depends on what you're going for but generally you want to land them in the nose, teeth, or the jaw area.

IMO.

[David Jamieson]

fighting in the street does not really afford time for boxing. you will almost never ever see a street fight where people square off then attack. as stated, it is generally a rush in or a sucker shot that starts these things.

better to work on your close in techniques, elbows, knees, short strikes.

avoid hitting the face, seriously, you can cut your hands on someones teeth and easily get infected. strikes to the side of the head such as the jaw or ocipital bone are preferable when not having gloved hands.

kicking to the lower extremeties, choking, deflections, holds and locks or even escape are preferable to toe to toe exchanges of fisticuffs.

of course, you might be the one doing the sucker shot, in which case, shame on you, but nevertheless this is usually a fist strike to the head and almost always to the side or back of it. :p

a jab to the bridge of the nose is useful too if you do find yourself squared off and in a measure up situation. But a hook to the jaw or chin is the slapper.

[MantisFistMonk]

I've successfully ended a street fight by setting up with jabs before.

Some dude swung on me, I got tagged 2-3 times and stepped back out of his reach for a second to get orientated. He advanced and I stepped into him with two straight hard jabs to put him on the defensive, he went to cover up and duck to his left, I slipped right and connected with a solid right hook to his temple area and he just slumped straight down like someone stole a chair out from underneath him.

Then he crawled around on the ground like he was looking for change or something, it was an odd sight.

Anyways, I know without a doubt in that instance they helped me set up the right hook.

Now if he ducked to his left I would probably have still thrown that right hook and he would have slipped it easily.

It just so happened the jabs made him duck right into my hook.

Jabs set up the hook that ended the fight in this one instance.

I'm not saying this can be done at will or during every fight, I just know they can and will work if the situation allows them and things come together.

There are so many more, hard hitting and effective things you can do then jabs in a street fight. You're probably better off not using them at all. But they do work.

[edited for spelling]

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
so it doesn't matter where you aim the jab? And what do you do if they rush you and are much bigger and stronger and will probably manhandle you in a clinch (or throw you threw window if you let a clinch occur)?

What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?

Anyway, if this happens rather often, train more, condition more, strengthen yourself. Develop explosive speed. Jumps, sprints, etc. Then avoid the rush, and run away.

The other thing you can do is register and carry a gun.

[ShaolinTiger00]

ST00, I've seen people go down with a good nose shot,

I've seen it too and for various reasons (The sight of their blood, the "sting" to the sensitive nerves. (a tiger palm to the base of the nose hurts!)

But like Liokault said, your objective needs to be to put this rhino down! against an opponent who will tackle you (and without artificial rules, forward pressure is sending him into you guaranteed) the jab alone is no good.

However...:) It can lead you into a dominant clinch. You can throw that jab and turn it in and seek head control and then transition into a dominant clinch. knees. elbows. sprawl. run away.. control = you get to make the choice.

*edit* My opinion on striking is this...

Striking is good! but you've got to make it lead somewhere. There has to be something gained for it and letting someone continue to stand freely swinging back at you with all his capabilites and now possibly an injury that he can't even feel is just poor strategy imho. In fact that shows a lack of strategy to me.

I fight based upon concepts and principles. A fight is chaos so the more you stack the deck in your favor and play those odds, the better you're probably going to turn out and win more consistency. Rule #1 is seek a more dominant position and then compound it. Rule #2 says strike from a superior position.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
so it doesn't matter where you aim the jab? And what do you do if they rush you and are much bigger and stronger and will probably manhandle you in a clinch (or throw you threw window if you let a clinch occur)? Oh for ****'s sake learn a martial art or two!

What happens then is you use something other than a jab you retard! Have we suddenly gone back to the 'What one technique would you use in a fight?' thread?

ST00: agree completely.

[Becca]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?

Anyway, if this happens rather often, train more, condition more, strengthen yourself. Develop explosive speed. Jumps, sprints, etc. Then avoid the rush, and run away.

The other thing you can do is register and carry a gun.
Could also figure out what you're doing to get into that situation and then avoid doing again...

[scotty1]

What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?

Sh!t happens?

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Becca
Could also figure out what you're doing to get into that situation and then avoid doing again...

Oh yah, the most obvious thing, too... ::grin::

[ShaolinTiger00]

What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?

How many times have you been harassed by a guy smaller and weaker than you?

[Icewater]

I find a jab effective if you can throw the first punch. While I am not inclined to start a fight and will opt to walk away if possible. I have been in the situation where a guy is obviously building up for an attack by doing the puffy chest shouting thing and I felt a pre-emptive strike would be better than showing him my back. So I tagged his nose with a jab, stepped forward on a 45, and dropped him with ye ole' hip sweep. It was pretty effective and I got off with a few minor scrapes from the ground scuffle.

[Meat Shake]

"What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?"

I cant even count how many times Ive seen people get the snot beat out of them for talking sh!t to someone who they thought looked smaller and weaker.

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
How many times have you been harassed by a guy smaller and weaker than you?

Actually, I avoid being harassed in general. Probably my best form of kungfu, the avoidance method. ::grin::

But really, if you're gonna be in these situations, train for them. If you know someone will be able to take your jab and is gonna be gunning for a rush and takedown, then you'd better have trained in sprawl+hook punch into a rear choke while keeping ground control. This would also involve strength and conditioning. Again, this is if you HAVE to fight, for whatever reason.

I still maintain that street fights should be avoided. If you enjoy fighting (I REALLY enjoy fighting), full contact sparring, or ring fighting should provide you with enough fun without the dangers of the street. As much fun as I have fighting, the very real dangers of SERIOUS injury (as opposed to manageable injuries in a ring) in the street keeps me wary of such possible encounters.

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"What're you doing getting in a fight in the street against someone bigger and stronger than you anyway?"

I cant even count how many times Ive seen people get the snot beat out of them for talking sh!t to someone who they thought looked smaller and weaker.

Heheh, true, however, speaking in absolutes, not someone you THINK is bigger and stronger, but really, someone who IS bigger and stronger. Either don't get into the fight, or train enough so the guy is no longer stronger, just bigger. Of course training to be BETTER overall gives you significant advantage.

But really, if you're ASKING IN AN INTERNET FORUM what kind of jab to throw in a street fight against someone who APPEARS larger and stronger and is gearing to rush you and take you down... well, you have no business getting into that predicament in the first place.

Train, setup situations with your partners, do controlled full contact sparring. Know what it's like to really hit someone and get hit by someone. Know what it's like to grapple someone who is trying to drop YOU.

Anyways, that's just my reaction, in trying to see things from the perspective presented (the one where the guy is asking about jabbing someone who he KNOWS is larger, stronger and is coming in to rush and grapple).

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
well you cant really knock anyone out with a jab. So your setting him up but wouldnt it hurt your fist more by hitting his chin with a jab not a hook or cross) since its a pretty hard area?

I have. It was set up by other things, but the jab is what actually put his lights out.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I've all but abandoned the concept of the "jab"

because of sanshou & mma sparring, I've decided that the punishment to risk ratio of the jab wasn't worth it. Meaning that to deliver a proper jab, you've got to be in a classic orthodox stance. It's been my experience that the stance limits the sprawl and lateral movement. ex . I jab and he slips and shoots for a takedown.. chances are I'm going to get taken down or at least moved into a clinched position and fighting it off with a sprawl etc.

I've adopted a much more square yet staggered stance (one foot is still leading but the hips are now square to the opponent. This make my left more of a "straight" than a jab and it becomes more powerful. It helps me sprawl and move more efficiantly too imho. similar to the muay thai but with more bend to the knees for better reaction and the quick hip turn to deliver a sidekick.

maybe it's the kinda thing that's better seen that written..

[Liokault]

Was there not a thread a while back about jabs prior to boxing rules and gloves etc?

Went somthing like pushing off with the back leg while all the weight is on the front legg and the punching arm is almost straight.

it had a high % KO rate before gloves or so i remember reading.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The weight on the rear leg was more for better defense I believe. I think it was considered "unsporting" to move around the ring like we see today. They just stood toe to toe and went at it.

Check out Dempsey's drop step jab.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
I've all but abandoned the concept of the "jab"

because of sanshou & mma sparring, I've decided that the punishment to risk ratio of the jab wasn't worth it. Meaning that to deliver a proper jab, you've got to be in a classic orthodox stance. It's been my experience that the stance limits the sprawl and lateral movement. ex . I jab and he slips and shoots for a takedown.. chances are I'm going to get taken down or at least moved into a clinched position and fighting it off with a sprawl etc.

I've adopted a much more square yet staggered stance (one foot is still leading but the hips are now square to the opponent. This make my left more of a "straight" than a jab and it becomes more powerful. It helps me sprawl and move more efficiantly too imho. similar to the muay thai but with more bend to the knees for better reaction and the quick hip turn to deliver a sidekick.

maybe it's the kinda thing that's better seen that written..

similar to the stance that bas rutten advocates?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Liokault
Was there not a thread a while back about jabs prior to boxing rules and gloves etc?

Went somthing like pushing off with the back leg while all the weight is on the front legg and the punching arm is almost straight.

it had a high % KO rate before gloves or so i remember reading.

Does anyone have more info on this?

[ShaolinTiger00]

similar to the stance that bas rutten advocates?

Exactly!