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azwingchun
08-16-2001, 11:32 PM
I have been studying the martial arts for almost 28 years now and the teacher/student relationship when there is a parting of the two never stops to amaze me. No wonder there is so much disagreement on who has the true style/system they teach, or who comes from who (lineage). Since this is the Wing Chun forum I will refer to Wing Chun only, though I as well have all of you who have been in the martial arts awhile have also seen what I am about to discuss. And I also would like some of your feedback as well.

I see on other Wing Chun forums how this instructor leaves his Sifu and then the Sifu as well as the school talks trash about the departed instructor. They make remarks on how his Kung Fu sucks and he wasn't a very good teacher, etc. The Sifu might even go as far as denying even training him or that this guy stole his system. I really find this to be disturbing. Not to mention that if the Sifu says this person's sucks, what does this say about the Sifu who trained him and actually was the one who promoted him/her. Hopefully not that he or she just hands out the title instructor to anyone who has the money to test?!?!? I recently read a thread on another Wing Chun forum on how this student left his school and his Sifu sent him very rude e-mails, talking trash (whatever happened to that great moralaity that Kung Fu supposedly teaches?). What are these Sifu s worried about? Is lineage so important? And so what if someone goes off and trains with someone else or just chooses to teach the system they have learned, not to mention bought and paid for in some cases?

We always see and hear about these instructors who claims to have trained under some well known Sifu but says he had felt the need to move on, and the Sifu he says he left denies ever even knowing him/her. No wonder the Wing Chun family tree is so screwed up.

In my opinion, no matter what martial art style you train in there will be differences in style but this doesn't mean it isn't the same style or that it isn't good. Geez, there are only so many ways to punch, kick and grapple. Correct? These mini-martial arts "governments" are really ridiculous. What is your opinion?

By the way how many Wing Chun Masters/Sifu s do you know or train with have had multiple teaches themselves and have left for what ever reason or just trained with someone else to get a different view point? I would assume many of your teachers have done this or possibly there teachers. Does this mean your art or teacher isn't any good or up to par w/the other systems of Kung Fu?

"Sorry just needed to air out a little."

[This message was edited by azwingchun on 08-17-01 at 02:49 PM.]

azwingchun
08-17-2001, 06:20 AM
Come on everyone.......no one has any comments? Does the topic suck that bad? LOL

Gluteus Maximus
08-17-2001, 07:39 AM
Hi azwingchun,

I agree totally. Proficiency in the martial arts doesn't guarantee a good attitude. In an ideal world, martial arts instructors would either choose their students more carefully in the first place and/or instil in them values and philosophies which would prevent a lot of this sort of thing happening.

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

Anarcho
08-17-2001, 08:48 AM
I agree too. It sucks, and it's stupid, but it happens in any (relatively) small community. It's certainly not exclusive to kung fu, although it seems common. Take any committee, local council, classroom, political party, etc. and you'll find the same old power struggles. I guess all we can do is try not to go the same way ourselves.

whippinghand
08-18-2001, 12:51 AM
I believe that the need, that a Sifu feels, to insult a student who has "left" him, or retract ever teaching that student, comes from the insecurity that perhaps he may not have "full" knowledge of the WC system, knowing that he is NOT the only person that this student can learn from. There is knowledge to be had, and it does not come from one person.

azwingchun
08-18-2001, 12:58 AM
I agree w/everything you have said, though I also believe in many cases that these certain teachers feel that they have the "TRUE ART" and are scared that it will now be sold or given to others and he now has nothing to gain by this. Thanks for the replies.

whippinghand
08-18-2001, 01:01 AM
Anybody who has the "true art" has nothing to fear or concern himself with, other than training itself.

tsunami surfer
08-18-2001, 01:28 AM
Well said whipping hand. AS Miyamoto Musashi said with practice and hard study "the spirit of the thing itself" will be revealed. As for instructors who badmouth students who move on it happens in ALL forms martial arts. Thankfully not all; instructors are that way and those that are secure in themselves look forward to students who have the courage and spirit to move on.d

Losttrak
08-18-2001, 03:04 AM
Who said, "Man is a political animal by nature." ?? Aristotle? Anyways, thats just how people are. He didnt say martial artists are political animals. People lie, slander, and bend truths for some form of personal gain or satisfaction. Bottom line. Look in every circle, even church, and you will see it. The trick is finding out what their motivations are.

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

old jong
08-18-2001, 03:15 AM
I think it goes with the traditionnal kung fu system witch is a "family" system.We see the same in any family.The father would often like to keep the authority and power in the clan but the son will want to have his own life and will upset his father in many ways.The final "lesson" of a father is to let his children live their lifes but how many fathers are really ready for it without a fight?...Kind of like the circle of life!

Anarcho
08-18-2001, 11:54 AM
Yeah, that was Aristotle, although it was just "Man is a political animal", or words to that effect. He actually meant something a little different, but I like your use of the quote. :)