Wingchunners and non wingchunners!

[old jong]

I thought it would be a nice title for a new thread!...;)

[kj]

:D

Regards,
- kj

[YongChun]

Well we need a definition first before we can allow members to join either camp. That's definitely a good challenge. A member will have to define what it is they do and how often they do it and against or with who. A special committee of 108 elected members can determine who qualifies for which camp.

[Ernie]

i'm in the free from wing chun camp if i must be labeled :p

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Ernie
i'm in the free from wing chun camp if i must be labeled :p

You can't do that. There's only two choices, wingchunner or non-wingchunner.

Ray

[Ernie]

looks like i'm yet the odd ball once again :)

[Vajramusti]

Wing chun is terrible. Count me out.

I am a mma non fighter. OOps I have to go back to staring at walls to figure out selfhood.

Back to the cave.

[Ernie]

wing chunner sounds gay
sounds to much like 4 runner

i consider myself more of a path finder

insert drum roll here -----

[old jong]

Being a "pathfinder" is a great thing.It is about being free but what about all the ones who will soon be following your new path?...They will not be as free as the finder of the path!...It will be the JKD syndrome all over again!...Oh no!.....:eek: :D

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Being a "pathfinder" is a great thing.It is about being free but what about all the ones who will soon be following your new path?...They will not be as free as the finder of the path!...It will be the JKD syndrome all over again!...Oh no!.....:eek: :D

as long as you make clear each person must make there own way , and all you can do is guide from your own perspective then all will be well

you can say the jkd syndrome is also the wing chun syndrome as you are following the path of others before you and look what that is creating

nothing but seperation and my way is better then your way blah blah
good wing chun , bad wing chun and everybody thinks they have the good stuff

an endless story

[old jong]

Ernie! Don't be so **** serious!...What have you done in Hawaii?...Some prison times?...;)

[old jong]

I was thinking about a secondary question in this thread...Do Winchunners enjoy sex more than non wingchunners and why do they?...:)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Ernie! Don't be so **** serious!...What have you done in Hawaii?...Some prison times?...;)


sorry bro
just have a very calm clear mind right now didn't mean to come off all dali lama :)

don't worry this state will wear off soon . some of my privates are calling me and still want to train tonight in the rain , this will be a long night :D

for them :D

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
I was thinking about a secondary question in this thread...Do Winchunners enjoy sex more than non wingchunners and why do they?...:)

they don't there to fixed and traditional

lack creativity and can't get the curves right :cool: :eek:

[old jong]

So you're not ..."traditional"?...:) I hope you wear protective gear?...;)

Who else is not traditional?... KJ?...Joy?..Ray?...:cool:

[old jong]

Do you think the "hip tucking" of YGKYM is an advantage over non wingchunners?...Whatever the traditional aspect?...;)

[Vajramusti]

Jong asks:Who else is not traditional?... KJ?...Joy?..Ray?...

(((Yes-I am a proper pelvic structure person in the ygkym---the resultant "rooting" is important- and as the Aussies know rooting can have a double meaning. Chinese is not the only language with a flar for double meanings))



Comments on Ernie : as long as you make clear each person must make there own way , and all you can do is guide from your own perspective then all will be well

((Individuality is important in wing chun-it is the original intercepting fist- but not the modern jkd. I agree with Ernie is on
individuation- everyone's poetry will be their own- but ( a possible difference) you have to know the essentials of the language and its structural characteristics reflexively- rather than reinventing the wheel and going back to me Tarzan you Jane))

you can say the jkd syndrome is also the wing chun syndrome as you are following the path of others before you and look what that is creating

((Following the path is not creating it. A bit of sampling and making up a stew without knowing the ingredients is part of the problem))

nothing but seperation and my way is better then your way blah blah
good wing chun , bad wing chun and everybody thinks they have the good stuff

((An overgeneralization- in the midst of noise good things acn exist and emerge. That is partly yje plum flower and lotus metaphors))

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Jong asks:Who else is not traditional?... KJ?...Joy?..Ray?...
((Individuality is important in wing chun-it is the original intercepting fist- but not the modern jkd. I agree with Ernie is on
individuation- everyone's poetry will be their own- but ( a possible difference) you have to know the essentials of the language and its structural characteristics reflexively- rather than reinventing the wheel and going back to me Tarzan you Jane))
))

basics are basics , the human body is the same , so understanding these basic is the foundation i agree most JKD guys i have come across - though much more effective street fighters hands down , do not have the basics that are part of wing chun , but they make up for it in training and application under pressure as well as being in shape , i have trained with some that have a very deep understanding of the body and how to use it but most are just a mix of boxing, thai and bjj , still a very effective blend , since they train hard .

but your right joy once you understand your body and wing chun training gives you a way to unlock the bodies potential , then you can play your own tune

[Vajramusti]

Many ways to self defense or fighting. Wing chun is not the only way. Better to have a super teacher in some other system than a bad wing chun teacher.

But wing chun does have some unique requirements- that does not stifle individuality. Those who studied with IM for a significant amount time have their own personalities and differences in the details of their individual applications...Leung Shun, WSL, TST, HKM etc.

Gotta go teach some wing chun.
or Jim R's- gotta run.!!

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie

I was thinking about a secondary question in this thread...Do Winchunners enjoy sex more than non wingchunners and why do they?... oj

they don't there to fixed and traditional

lack creativity and can't get the curves right :cool: :eek:

OJ's question was do they enjoy sex more than non-WCers.

Just because they may not be good at it doesn't mean they don't enjoy it more. ;)

Why they might enjoy it more is speculative at best and hard to prove.

WC is considered a soft style....is that a +/- ???

:D :D :D

[CFT]

Originally posted by Ernie
... most JKD guys i have come across - though much more effective street fighters hands down , do not have the basics that are part of wing chun , but they make up for it in training and application under pressure as well as being in shape , i have trained with some that have a very deep understanding of the body and how to use it but most are just a mix of boxing, thai and bjj , still a very effective blend , since they train hard.So you do think there is something to Wing Chun then? I'm inferring from your comment that "Factor-X" in Wing Chun offsets training hard in JKD.

Sometimes you write like there is nothing special in Wing Chun, and then sometimes like there is.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by CFT
So you do think there is something to Wing Chun then? I'm inferring from your comment that "Factor-X" in Wing Chun offsets training hard in JKD.

Sometimes you write like there is nothing special in Wing Chun, and then sometimes like there is.

The wing chun training system on paper is a very beautiful thing , through the knowledge I have gained from training in it and now even more so from teaching it ,I can see how all other arts work , why ? simple it’s based on maximizing the human body and understanding the mind . from a combative point of view , so the text book is a very good tool .
That being said I don’t personally feel the training methods are up to a modern standard , beyond the basics which can’t change the core process forms , dummy , chi sau , these are good at developing how to chi sau and creating a micro laboratory to look at body energy lines of attack and insert concepts to test and get familiar with wing chun theory

But this is were most wing chun stops sure they practice a few closing drills against this or that attack , perhaps investigate how the knife , dummy and pole footwork correlate to closing the gap , chasing , kicking stuff like that

But mainly most stay in the chi sau bubble and just get better at the chi sau game , this is were lineage and ego really mess things up , everybody wants to imitate there teachers signature style , there roll there energy , some teachers create step by step systems [ karate business plan ] to emulate there perception and thus the cookie cutter is born .

Wing chun in my eyes doesn’t even start to exist until you leave the safety of your training group and experiment with your personal application , until you gain exposure to the outside elements , on your own with no training wheels or anyone holding your hand then the real questions and answers will come out , only then your individual strengths and weakness will come to light and you can really start to build and get good and understand what wing chun is telling you .

People that are very good and follow the JKD matrix get good by putting in tons of flight time and by having a core style to use as a measuring stick for understanding and comparison , if they base it off there personal development and refine and adapt they get good , but this is a very hard road to follow a lot of pain and training time , since it’s a physically demanding approach most can not maintain the conditioning needed to pull it off , there are many holes when they do things but they train there attributes to a higher level then most [ if there good ] and even though they face a technically better martial artist they blow him out by shear speed endurance or the ability to be elusive and not play his game .

The guys that are not good [ most I have met ] are just a loose combination of mixed arts , they don’t even understand nor care to understand trapping range or body structure so there engine and body mechanics never gets that refinement , sure they can fight and some are real tough guys , but they tend to gravitate to there favorite art and just get good at that aspect , so there not really JKD guys in theory only in name .

The few really skilled wing chun guys I have come across had the same ballistic fighting ability that the higher level JKD guys had , there is an animal way about them a killer essence and they can pull it off under pressure with constancy yet they didn’t need the same degree of conditioning not flight time , this intrigued me about wing chun .

Then you have the guys that are skilled at wing Chun and are conditioned and go out and experience application this is a new group we shall see how they evolve =)

[CFT]

Thanks Ernie. It was a long read, but it answered all my questions.

In all seriousness, do you think you would ever get off the Wing Chun horse?

[YongChun]

Good post Ernie that I totally agree with.

Ray

[Ernie]

Originally posted by CFT
Thanks Ernie. It was a long read, but it answered all my questions.

In all seriousness, do you think you would ever get off the Wing Chun horse?


I have no emotional commitment to wing chun , but when trained right [ no lineage , no business, no limitation trying to prove your way is better then the other guy , or my sifu said so stuff ]

It can have very good results

Now what I consider good results are only in combative effectiveness , don’t care about perfect forms or killer chi sau or representing the family name , secret hand shake or pretty shirt with the nice logo , that’s all fluff


So to answer your question until I find a training system that produces better results as a whole [ I have found drills and things others do that have faster results on specific parts ]

Then I will continue to further investigate the wing Chun training system

By sharing it and seeing how people develop
And by further testing it myself in sparring , and researching other systems to see how it stacks up ,

I enjoy research and development . I am very passionate about the process but not close minded to other approaches or material

So for the time being I am attempting to stay in the saddle :D

But I will always hold my individuality and the individuality of those I coach far above any training system , people are more important then a non living thing


Sorry for being so long winded
:cool:

[CFT]

Originally posted by Ernie
Sorry for being so long winded :cool: Not at all. I like your approach to Wing Chun training.

Ever hear of the writer apologising for not having enough time to write a short letter? Or people who are too busy to find ways to work more efficiently?

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Ernie
I have no emotional commitment to wing chun , but when trained right [ no lineage , no business, no limitation trying to prove your way is better then the other guy , or my sifu said so stuff ]

It can have very good results

Hi Ernie,

Why try and get Wing Chun to work as opposed to getting some other system, like Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing I, SanDa etc. to work?

Ray

[old jong]

Originally posted by YongChun
Hi Ernie,

Why try and get Wing Chun to work as opposed to getting some other system, like Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing I, SanDa etc. to work?

Ray

The thread is desperatly going very serious but this is a very good question,promising to get a glimpse at Ernie's actual love and emotional commitment to Wing Chun...
I know he secretly loves Wing Chun and spend many hours in her YGKYM!...;)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by YongChun
Hi Ernie,

Why try and get Wing Chun to work as opposed to getting some other system, like Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing I, SanDa etc. to work?

Ray

Simple exposure and lasting impression

I grew up watching Bruce lee and other martial art movies , I never was impressed with fancy kicks but something about those hands ripping through a person ,
Then I trained in Korean and Japanese systems as a kid and got my butt kicked by boxers , so I knew there was something wrong with the whole KATA approach , sure I could do the splits and break boards but man when those guys moved I couldn’t hit them .

Then about 8 years ago I saw a little 130 pound guy drop a 200 pound big dude in the blink of an eye and I was like WOW at the time I was a 210 pound body builder and I asked the guy if I could play with him and he lit me up . asked what the hell he was using and he said he had 12 years of wing Chun and 6 years of kali

This dude was just a nobody and to this day I’m hoping to find him and thank him

So that lead me on the path to wing chun , by luck the very day I found a guy to teach me I met my JKD friend Robert and he offered to train me as well both guys didn’t charge a dime , just say how nuts I was and how much I wanted to learn

So exposure and personal experience lead me to wing Chun , during that time I investigated and trained in a list of arts ,

As for the traditional CMA well along the way I sparred people from many of those arts that talked a lot and really believed in there stuff , yet they were and still are the easiest to shut down . the guys that were always hard were the boxers , kick boxers , Thai , FMA and BJJ and still are . so by my personal experience it was a no brainier .

I went to many wing Chun seminars to meet other people and see what they had to offer as well as JKD , FMA
I noticed many of my wing chun brothers and sisters had a small curse , problems with heavy physical pressure and covering distance , and the other CMA guys were even worse couldn’t land anything , sure they were powerful if you just stood there but man get on your toes move around break timing and they were dead

So unless I see that there actually training with contact in a non systematic environment I don’t really have much respect for them in a combative sense , they might have great skills in there system but that doesn’t interest me really , if it takes X amount of years to develop a small amount of skill [ combative ] and this other approach does it in a far short time then I invest my time in the approach that cuts out the fat .

Even in wing Chun I seek the approach that is more calibrated towards combative effectiveness in a short period that has a proven track record ,

You see Ray I really don’t care what you call it or were it’s from as long as it works form me and fits my body and mind this filter allows me to not waste my time and not get into a lineage thing or even style thing .

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
The thread is desperatly going very serious but this is a very good question,promising to get a glimpse at Ernie's actual love and emotional commitment to Wing Chun...
I know he secretly loves Wing Chun and spend many hours in her YGKYM!...;)



Jong ,
In the first few years I was the YGKYM devote , I would do my hour long stances and sit in room burn incense light a red candle and just focus on my breathing and all that corny stuff =)

I had my rule of 1000 every thing had to be individually broken down 1000 times a week , I did this for a long time all the while sparring and writing notes and searching for the essence of wing chun ,

I am a research junkie 100’s of video’s books you name it . I was training everyday in the ring 4 times a week for 2 years straight .

The Thai guys would make fun of my wing Chun kicking and leg defense the boxers of my wing Chun hands and footwork , and I would get dropped over and over again . then after a while and a lot of coaching from boxers . Robert and my wing chun teachers I think I was on my second or third by this time , the tables started to turn and I was the one hitting and making fun of them causing them to miss and shutting them down .

Then other coaches took notice and suddenly I was one of the boys and they helped me trained with me offered there advice and they are still my friends today , my old boxing coach wants me to teach him wing chun , life is funny that way

And if you must know the truth every morning before the sun came up I was out in Hawaii on my balcony doing my SLT until I saw sunrise , reminiscing on the journey that has lead to this point
:D :D :D

[old jong]

And if you must know the truth every morning before the sun came up I was out in Hawaii on my balcony doing my SLT until I saw sunrise , reminiscing on the journey that has lead to this point

Did you spot that bird catching the first sunlight on it's wing?...This is part of the journey too!...
;) Good for you friend!...:)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Did you spot that bird catching the first sunlight on it's wing?...This is part of the journey too!...
;) Good for you friend!...:)

The sea turtles were the first to wake up and greet the day with me :)

[Kevin Bell]

Hey Old Jong,

Perhaps you're the Non-wingchunner? Ever thought that?

Got it! Build a Delorean back to the fifties twelve hours of SLT..

Great!

[old jong]

There are strange blokes on this forum!...;) :D

[Kevin Bell]

Thanks mate. British humour at its worst i'm afraid..

[old jong]

Really,I'm back from the future and I saw that the past was right!...But who cares!...We must live in the present!...
Good on you mate! (As they say in one of your colonnies!) ;)

[kj]

Originally posted by Ernie
And if you must know the truth every morning before the sun came up I was out in Hawaii on my balcony doing my SLT until I saw sunrise , reminiscing on the journey that has lead to this point
:D :D :D

Aha!

:D;)

Regards,
- kj

[Ernie]

Originally posted by kj
Aha!

:D;)

Regards,
- kj

if i had a heavy bag i would have been working a few rounds on that so i had to make do:p

[old jong]

Originally posted by Ernie
if i had a heavy bag i would have been working a few rounds on that so i had to make do:p

Yes,we know!...;)
Witch brings my next question: Are you shy about Wing Chun?...Do you feel like a kid caught masturbating by his mother if you are seen doing SLT?... ;)

[Kevin Bell]

Nah,I love SLT as much as the next man and practice the forms a fair bit.

I think the questions should be:

DO YOU HARK BACK TO THE PAST AND NOT EVOLVE WITH TIME?

DO YOU IMPOSE CONSTRAINTS UPON YOURSELF OR ARE YOU PROGRESSIVE?

ARE YOU OPENMINDED?

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Yes,we know!...;)
Witch brings my next question: Are you shy about Wing Chun?...Do you feel like a kid caught masturbating by his mother if you are seen doing SLT?... ;)


in some ways I’m embarrassed by wing Chun as it is perceived in fight world , and how it has turned into karate or tai chi and lost it's edge as a legitimate fighting system

over intellectualized
chi sau competitions
historians
belts
uniforms
certificates
lineage

all the fluff stuff

so to me the forms are a very personal thing , time in your mind to reflect and refine not something to perform
it is not a kata

once some one asked me to *play* SLT and I fell out laughing
I was like what the hell are you talking about .
he said I would like to see your form
so I said why let’s glove up and move around I want to see the application of your skill
and he freaked out

this mindset tripped me out and still does

people get all into shapes and stances , with no clue on application the very reasons why those forms came to life in the first place

so yes I do honestly get embarrassed when I get lumped in with that group by default
:(

[old jong]

Why do you "evolved" guys are always so **** serious?...(with the exception of when you have a good one on who you percieve as "traditionals") ;)

O.K. : " Why do you consider the past as something so bad?...Why do you think we impose constraints on ourselves?...Is being openminded mean accepting anything for ourselves?...How can we juge progression without knowing the future in advance?...Could progression be really regression in some circumstances?...Do "evolved" guys read minds?...;) Mutations do happen but are they always in the good direction?...Should all choices be respected?...I could go on forever but you get the idea!...;) I will still add another one: How can we assume so easily about other's skill based on their personal choices and philosophy?...

[old jong]

Ernie!
There are many thing you cite that I don't like much myself. I think you should also not juge the whole Wing Chun scene by the fact that you intimidated some guy with your big pecks!...;) Bully!...:D

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Ernie!
There are many thing you cite that I don't like much myself. I think you should also not juge the whole Wing Chun scene by the fact that you intimidated some guy with your big pecks!...;) Bully!...:D

Jong
For all you might think about me , I am in no way intimidating I really try to be as cool and genuine with people as I can be , no head trips no my way vs your way , I really don’t care about wining or losing , I’m just a student of the process , so when I ask some one to move around I’m not going to go off on them if anything I want to feed lines to see how they shut me down no competition at all , it’s just a better way to evaluate skill , balance , timing , *control* sensitivity all that
Chi sau has holes and things that work in chi sau won’t fly when there is air space , the end game is application is it not ?

One of the most impressive things about the good wing chun people I have come across is they simply said go ahead attack me , they didn’t tell you how to hit them just do what ever

This ability to read and adapt is crucial

But when a guy is all let me see your form and then lets roll I’m cool what ever , if he is a head case he will fire off he few favorite moves or get all red faced and emotional

If he has been around for a while and has no ego then things go back and forth and you have a dialogue

But you still never really get a read on what his real application skill is

[old jong]

Ernie!
Some guys are easily intimidated,want it ir not!...( you said that he "freaked out" or something!...)
BTW, I don't hate you or misjuge you for your personal ideas and I really prefer to say "just attack me the way you like" over "give a punch that way"...;) I trust myself more than I can trust others!....You understand?...;)

[Ernie]

no worries big guy:)

[old jong]

Hey Ernie!
I hope we will meet someday.I'm not that of a young buck anymore but I would not shy away from playing with you a little bit if you don't mind.The more I get older ,the more I tend to work on the "non resistance" aspect of Wing Chun.In other words,I get sneakier and more technical all the times!...;) It's a long run from the times I was your age.I was in TKD then and I was feared for my punches to the "red dot" of the body gear,sending guys on their backs.I was also very "macho" taking kicks to the body just for getting close enough for my punches. I have plently of lumps to prove that fact!...I realised I was more the "boxing kind" but I prefered not to get in boxing because I need my braincells for my retirements days.( in just a few years!)So Wing Chun was ready for me!...;)

I also did some Aikido,and Karate (kyokushin) in my younger years and sometimes practice judo ne-wasa with a friend of mine (5th degree b.b.) ...Rough!.....;)


We all have our stories eh?

[Ernie]

we all got stories and we all got alot to offer :)

yea man I hope we hang out some time , I like you tenacity:D
I love hanging with cats that have been around the block , as for playing it safe I’m heading down that road as well , I’m on the injured reserved list right now
;)

[old jong]

Two of my students will participate in a Kenneth Cheung seminar this coming weekend in Rochester NY. They will have the pleasure of meeting KJ and meeting again with Mark and "Tuck" who we meet at the recent Ho Kam Ming seminar at my Sifu's place in Ottawa.(Patrick Gordon)
I wish I could be there but my work shedule doesn't allow me to go.
Is it a sign of times when a guy can send "advanced students"?...:( ;)

[YongChun]

Originally posted by old jong
Two of my students will participate in a Kenneth Cheung seminar this coming weekend in Rochester NY. They will have the pleasure of meeting KJ and meeting again with Mark and "Tuck" who we meet at the recent Ho Kam Ming seminar at my Sifu's place in Ottawa.(Patrick Gordon)
I wish I could be there but my work shedule doesn't allow me to go.
Is it a sign of times when a guy can send "advanced students"?...:( ;)

Have they met Kenneth Chung before? I would like to hear their seminar report either way.

Ray

[old jong]

Ray
No!...And I haven't either.
I will have them post something here after.Good idea!

[kj]

We are greatly looking forward to the time with your students and friends, Old Jong. I only regret that you cannot join us this time. I'll still look forward to meeting up with you when we can.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[old jong]

Kathy Jo-
I am sure there will be other opportunities and I will be able to go someday. The pleasure will be mine. Say hello to the guys! :)

[kj]

It was terrific meeting Alex and Hai from Montreal this past weekend, as well as another long-time virtual acquaintance from Buffalo. I am so happy they could join us. They were pleasant, patient, considerate, genuinely inquisitive and open minded, and obviously very dedicated in their Wing Chun pursuits. I hope they enjoyed and benefited in some ways from the seminar. We all enjoyed our brief time with them, as did Ken.

The only downside is that our time together was all too short. I and the others in our group are definitely looking forward to our next opportunity to meet and exchange.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[PaulH]

So, what are the highlights of the seminar, Kathy? Surely there must be some life changing perspectives for you from this! =)

[old jong]

Kathy Jo-
Alex sent me a email and he was very happy about the seminar and by the friendly atmosphere he found.I am sure that Hai had a similar experience.I will see them at tonight's class and I will get more feedback from the seminar.
À la prochaine!...;)

[kj]

Originally posted by PaulH
So, what's the highlights of the seminar, Kathy? Surely there must be some life changing perspective for you from this! =)

Ha ha. In ways, everything is life changing, n'est pas? :)

No major epiphanies for me this time, but lots of much needed constructive feedback and corrections (e.g., "the errors of my ways"), and peeling more layers of the onion. In other words, I need a Hades of a lot of work. ;) I'll defer to others on any special points of interest.

One thing we spent some extra time on this visit was in having Ken critique our new wooden dummy. We had it built to our specs by Carina Cirrincione of Little Raven Studios (http://little-raven.com/). She did a phenomenal job on it at what I consider a bargain price. Her workmanship is extraordinary, and she was a thorough delight to work with on the project. Other than a small adjustment to the leg dimension (which Carina followed as requested and according to our specs), it is virtually perfect. The "play" in the dummy is outstanding! After working on substandard dummies for so long, I am thrilled with how "alive" this one is, and have a whole new appreciation for the benefits training with a well crafted and engineered dummy. This dummy served as a prototype and also to replace the one in our studio. Having fallen in love with it, I am already thinking about how and when I will manage to replace my existing hunk of junk at home. :D

Regards,
- kj

[Vajramusti]

Kung Fu sister Carina does a great job with martial arts equipmwnt of different kinds. And she is a top flight wing chun
person as well.

In our last meeting she surprised me with a gift of a wooden
kukhri for solo motion practice without chopping off heads
etc.

[PaulH]

Thanks for your brief, Kathy. I hope Old Jong will share a complete report at 22:00 sharp on the dummy affairs from his scouts... =)

[AlexMtl]

Hi,

this is my first post here,

As Old Jong (my sifu) stated above it has been a great seminar (at least for me). We spent 6 hours with Ken and the rochester wing chun crew lost in a peacefull park near the Ontario Lake (just in front of it in fact).

Right from the start of the seminar, Ken started demonstrating, explaining, answering questions again and again without holding anything back. We had the priviledge (ouch ... my shoulders) to feel and experiment his heavy hits during the whole seminar. The topics varied a lot depending on the questions from discussions to story telling, from demonstrations to sharp stance adjustements, from explanations to talks about other styles (praying mantis, xing yi, ...), ... He is literally unstoppable and without the wise intervension of Kathy we would have ended up (with pleasure) listening to him and his thoughts the next morning. Too bad we had a tight schedule and had to go back to Montreal on saturday evening (at least 1 hour 30 late from our schedule though).

my only regrets ? to have missed the chance to taste those huge sandwiches the US winchunners eat at lunchtime (i could have almost used them as wing chun long poles ...) and to have such a tight schedule and missed the chance to touch hands a little bit more with Ken (to try things ... too bad i haven't had the time to gather enough energy to use my special '8 Emei Boudhas Palm' hit ;) ),

We were (and still are) both very excited by this seminar and our encounter with Ken (and the RC),

Alex

[PaulH]

Thanks for your first informative post, Alex and welcome on board! I feel your pain about missing those huge sandwiches. I can imagine quite a bit of what you have lost.... =D

[old jong]

Hey Alex! Welcome to this crasy place!...;)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by old jong
Hey Alex! Welcome to this crasy place!...;)

Hey is this the Alex i know , either way welcome to the coo coo's nest

[YongChun]

Hi Alex,

Did Kenneth Chung change any conceptions you had about Wing Chun? Were there any disappointments or doubts in your mind about his methods? For example after I met Ken I still had doubts about how to handle the really good high speed kicker using Wing Chun methods because I never saw it demonstrated before. So then we got up Emin and I got over a friend of mine who is a very fast 4th degree black belt in Hapkido with a million kinds of kicks. So at the seminar Emin demonstrated what he does on his kicking tape against my friend. So that demo combined with his words of wisdom on training gave me enough evidence that by training the proper way it was indeed possible to handle what seemed like the impossible before. What Ken told us was a refinement on everything I learned before. Nothing he said contradicted what my previous teacher told me but Ken was further along the path yet on a similar path. The difference between these teachers and what Terence is talking about is just at what stage or how early you do the more intensive sparring with what you have learned. Everyone's model is still the same as: 1) learn the forms 2) learn the applications through drills and light sparing 3) go and fight or progressively beef up the intensity of what you do just short of injury.

Ray

[AmanuJRY]

Welcome to the arena, Alex.:D

[AlexMtl]

Originally posted by Old Jong
Hey Alex! Welcome to this crasy place!...
hi sifu ! :cool:

Originally posted by Ernie
Hey is this the Alex i know , either way welcome to the coo coo's nest
yes :)

Originally posted by YongChun
Did Kenneth Chung change any conceptions you had about Wing Chun?
I would say that off course meeting that kind of person implies an evolution in the way i understand wing chun. My understanding is still very limited and i cannot say right now how this seminar influences me (and it was only a short exposition to Ken's wing chun).

Besides the fact that i am very excited about the skills and capabilities that he showed us, i found his ability to generate "energy" with such a stricking and penetrating impact very interesting. I had personnally witnessed and felt that kind of heavy hits recently during a few introductory training sessions with someone that trains extensively in bagua zhang, xing yi and has studied ziranmen since his early childhood from a direct disciple of Wang Lai Shen.

I did not think that the wing chun structure and positioning made it possible for someone to produce the same kind of heavy and penetrating impact i have already seen.

And Ken stated more than once that this was the result of many many years of hard work and dedication to the art.

There are a lot a things that i learned there but it would be too long to go through each of them,

Originally posted by YongChun
Were there any disappointments or doubts in your mind about his methods?
honestly, it would be pretentious to be either disapointed or to have doubts about Ken's method after seing him 1 afternoon (even a long one) and less than 2 years of wing chun,

Originally posted by YongChun
Everyone's model is still the same as: 1) learn the forms 2) learn the applications through drills and light sparing 3) go and fight or progressively beef up the intensity of what you do just short of injury.
well, not quite i think. some do stress more the application side, others spend more time on the development of their stricking power (energy) through a very specific training (i.e. no gym). I have seen either way, and they produce pretty convincing results. After that it's a matter of personal taste ;) ,

Alex

[Mark Kune]

Hi Alex, Old Jong and everyone.

It was great to have Alex and friend visit us for Ken's workshop. I hope we made them feel as comfortable and welcome as ol' Tuck and I did when we visited Ottawa.


Ken enjoyed working with you guys.

What I feel I got most from this workshop was amazment at the depth of wing chun. How applying it correctly goes after the weakest parts of the opponents structure and puts them in an akward position that in turn opens up a target. And it's all in the forms and dummy!

And it was great that 3 different lineages could come together and have a great afternoon.


Alex next time you guys are down we'll make sure you get one fo those sub sandwhiches

Mark

[old jong]

Hey Mark!
I was sure that Alex and Hai would have a great times with you guys.My big regret is that I could not make it.
I was not surprised at all when they gave me a description of some of Ken's skills.This is what you get when you follow the Wing Chun path.
They came back with even more motivation to follow that path.
Mes salutations à Ken, Kathy Jo and ol'Tuck. ;) (real Wingchunners!)

BTW,I enjoyed the pics! :cool:

[Mark Kune]

Hey Old Jong

Hopfully we'll meet again soon.

And BTW, how do you guys rate? I haven't even seen one picture yet!!!!!

[old jong]

Check your PM box!...;)

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Mark Kune

And it was great that 3 different lineages could come together and have a great afternoon.
Mark

If we could do more and more of this kind of thing then we wouldn't have so many fights with each other. The older generation, which are our teachers, can't bring themselves to do that for lots of reasons but the students of these teachers who have not been brainwashed too much can do it and get a lot out of it. This of course is not just a Wing Chun problem but a worldwide human problem which is difficult if not impossible to solve. However each little step helps. So I am happy this kind of sharing is happening.

Ray