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View Full Version : sparing Monks? what do you have tp prove?



Lu Zhi Shen
10-20-2004, 01:52 AM
I have heard so many people talk about challenging a Shaolin Monk I wanted to get this off my chest. =] First of all. All the great masters I have seen have been very humble to those who come to test them. In other words they would say No. and tell you. “ you would win” and smile and send you off. Trust me, not out of fear, but for the true meaning of martial arts (health, discipline. To help others, and to defend. Showboating is looked down upon). And for the sake of getting sued after they cleaned the floor with your butt. Though some hotshot skin-deep teacher that has something to prove to himself may take you on. But as for a shaolin Monk, don't waste your breath. They have nothing to prove to anyone. They are here of a reason and this is not one of them.
Although, I know of a time where the teacher had no choice but to except the challenge. One Shifu (name I will withhold) was asked by some 5th degree Black Belt, almost every day to let him punch this Shifu one time to prove his Chi Gong was fake. The Shifu time after time asked him to leave. Then the challenger brought his students to the Shifus School and said. “ this teacher and his school are fake, see he won’t let me hit him one time. Cause Chinese Kung Fu is fake! And his Chi Gong is fake! Blah blah blah” Japanese Karate will always beat these flowery kung fu guys... Etc. This mullet head continued. The top students of the Kung Fu school wanted to pound this guy. Even though this guy was like a little Arnold Swarsinagger (forgive the misspelling). This guy would not stop! Then Karate Joe said “ If you can stand up after I hit you I will become your student and all my students will follow you as well. The Shifu knew this idiot would not stop and after weeks of hassling told him. “Ok One hit with one student from each school to witness. And you must sign a waver to what ever may happen to you.” The karate Joe agreed. To let you, know this Shifu was a master of Little Golden Bell Chi Gong. That memorable day came, the Shifu prepared himself for the one hit from this massive pumped up dumb ass. Well he got his wish. A chance to prove to the world he was somebody! Cause he was about to knock down this famous Kung Fu Master. NOT! The Joe got in his stance, and asked are you ready? The Shifu nodded yes. The Joe struck a mighty blow. But when he hit the Shifu it sounded like he punched a basketball. The Joes arm recoiled and his arm bone busted out of the back of his elbow! The Shifu did not move an inch! The Joe fell to the ground in great Pain. The Shifu quickly moved to him and set the bone. then rushed him to the hospital. The Joe was hurt but his pride was hurt the most. And he learned a hard lesson. But he was honorable to his word. A few days later he arrived in cast, with many of his students and gave his belt to the Shifu and asked him to teach him. All in all, after you got to know the Joe he was not a bad guy. He just had something to prove. Well to make a long story short. He trained with this Shifu, but it took him 2-3 years to pass the first level. Cause he never trained to build a sold foundation. And his years of Karate and weight training made him stiff as a board. Most schools have you kicking and punching the first week. This Shifu said. “ You cant build a ten story building on soft soil. The maximum level of your training depends on the quality of your basic foundation. For example: Horse stance for one hour. ( a real Horse stance! Square, knees above toes. Level legs. Back straight feet parallel. Not the Wushu *Cough*crap horse stance. Here is a Little test. Place a staff on your legs. Don’t let it roll off. Place your toes against a wall don’t let your knees touch. Have a friend place a stick behind your back, make sure your whole spine has contact to the staff. Legs are straight up and down, not tilted on a 45. angle. If you can do this, try holding it for 10 mins. If you can, you have something. To be truthful I cannot anymore. At one time 1 hour was possible. ( that was along time ago) . nevertheless, I’m working on getting it back. =) Ok back to the fighting stuff.=) I have often wondered why people like to beat the crap out of each other. Look at Thai Boxers. They are tuff as nails. But don’t live long, or have major internal and external problems. ( but in Thailand it a way to make a living. And bring food home to the family. So Amitoufo to all of them) I think these people need to find some sort of inner peace. If you learn to combine that peace with your martial arts then you may find something, and perhaps with this understanding, take you to another level in your training, and cultivation.

it was once said " a half full bucket of water splashes and makes lots of noise, as a full bucket is silent"

Again I thank you for reading my post. I do not intend to offend anyone. Everyone has the right to follow whatever path he or she wishes to hike. These views are from my heart solely.
Forgive the typos. I'm beat..=]

Thank you
Almitoufo

Lu Zhi Shen

FngSaiYuk
10-20-2004, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Lu Zhi Shen
I have often wondered why people like to beat the crap out of each other.

Within my own limits, and my partner/opponents limits, 'beating the crap' out of each other is fun!

Perhaps it's the adrenaline, movement, the impact, the aggression, the power, the finesse... No idea really, haven't bothered to really analyze it... it's just a LOT of fun! Again, providing that my partner(s)/opponent(s) understand it's a friendly fight.

Maybe it's just a carry over from hunting or warring times...

Now 'challenging' someone is totally different. So is bullying. It's no fun at that point. Someone has malicious intent at that point that can take things beyond MY comfort limits.

Anyways, you may want to consider why mountain climbers climb mountains.

Shaolinlueb
10-20-2004, 07:32 AM
dont be mad cause the wushu guys have a lower and wider stance then you traditional guys :o :D ;) :p

Songshan
10-20-2004, 10:15 PM
I was watching a documentary the other night about Bruce Lee. His wife, Linda Lee, discussed a similar situation that was posted. Linda stated a fighter came to challenge Bruce Lee at his school. If he lost he had to stop teaching kung fu and if he won he could teach who he wants. Linda witnessed this "match" and of course Bruce Lee won. This of course was the time when Chinese Martial Arts was un heard of. So, it was common back then for these challenges to take place.

Today, there is a different kind of challenge to the masters. I personally have witnessed several of these "challenges". I witnessed a guy come into the school and inquire about the classes. So he chats with shifu and begins the "what do you know?" questions. The next thing I know the guy demands shifu to "demonstrate" his skills and puts it in a way of "show me what you know". Shifu usually senses the "challenge" and to the dissapointment of the guy he leaves after not seeing his request honored.

To put it all into perspective I agree with Lu Zhi Shen. I am sure there are these types of demands for fights that go on today. These contests are pointless. I will say that everyone learns martial arts for a reason, whether it is for defense or for health.

IronFist
10-24-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Lu Zhi Shen
One Shifu (name I will withhold)

Their names are always withheld. Kind of like how Ashida Kim won't say who his teacher was, or how all the people who are afraid of losing will never fight anyone and their master is always "too secret to mention his name."


The Joes arm recoiled and his arm bone busted out of the back of his elbow!

Um, no.


weight training made him stiff as a board.

Man I love this. There's no *scientific* proof anywhere that weight lifting makes you stiff or inflexible. If anything it promotes the opposite. The only people who say it's bad for you are traditional MAs who heard that from their teacher who also doesn't know what he's talking about.


Look at Thai Boxers. They are tuff as nails. But don’t live long,

They don't live long? Man, someone's been feeding you the BS bad. The reason they train that way is so they can actually fight. Real fighting involves moving around. It doesn't involve posing after 10 seconds of preparing to let someone hit you. If you can't take a blow in the middle of combat from whatever position you happen to be in then your "skill" is worthless.

Songshan
10-24-2004, 05:36 PM
Amitoufo

Theoderic
10-26-2004, 09:33 AM
There are many different approaches to Martial Arts. Some are created for self defense, others focus more on spiritual enlightenment, even others are focused on sport competition, there are also styles that focus on pure combat survival.

As there are different points of view or philosophies of these martial arts there are different needs to understand how that art works and effects a person. Those arts that are geared more towards physical confrontation seek other confrontations to test what they have learned through sparring or fighting.

The problem is that there are just bad teachers that do not offer instruction on how to conduct yourself in life. It is easy to teach a person to punch, kick, and grapple. The hardest thing to teach is good spirit.

Whether that story be true or just a story the important thing is not that chi-kung beat karate but that a man learned a humbling lesson and despite his brash actions stayed true to his word and honorable in the end.

Look towards the intent of the teacher and you will understand his way.

Songshan
10-26-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
Their names are always withheld. Kind of like how Ashida Kim won't say who his teacher was, or how all the people who are afraid of losing will never fight anyone and their master is always "too secret to mention his name."


No, this is usually done out of respect


Man I love this. There's no *scientific* proof anywhere that weight lifting makes you stiff or inflexible. If anything it promotes the opposite. The only people who say it's bad for you are traditional MAs who heard that from their teacher who also doesn't know what he's talking about.

It's common sense that the 230 lbs "muscle type" is more likely to move slower because of his muscle mass than the 160 lb martial artist.

norther practitioner
10-27-2004, 03:32 AM
Have you watched the 260 lb guys in K1?

MasterKiller
10-27-2004, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Songshan
I was watching a documentary the other night about Bruce Lee. His wife, Linda Lee, discussed a similar situation that was posted. Linda stated a fighter came to challenge Bruce Lee at his school. If he lost he had to stop teaching kung fu and if he won he could teach who he wants. Linda witnessed this "match" and of course Bruce Lee won. This of course was the time when Chinese Martial Arts was un heard of. So, it was common back then for these challenges to take place. . Don't believe a word she says. Bruce was talking trash in Chinatown about how he could beat anyone. Wong Jack Man stepped up. They fought. Bruce Lee left town. What does that say?

She does everything she can to promote "the legend."

Songshan
10-27-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Don't believe a word she says. Bruce was talking trash in Chinatown about how he could beat anyone. Wong Jack Man stepped up. They fought. Bruce Lee left town. What does that say?

She does everything she can to promote "the legend."

Okay, I can agree that everything she does everything to promote "the legend". Linda Lee will always support her husband. I am not a Bruce Lee historian, but is this the same fight if he won he could teach who he wants and if he loses he must stop teaching? Or is this something I have mixed up here?
Either way, I don't believe that there will ever be a martial artist that will be undefeated. Even if Bruce Lee didn't win against Wong Jack Man it doesn't take away who Bruce Lee was and what he accomplished (which I think is valuable to anyone who studies martial arts). I see Bruce Lee as a pioneer to CMA in America.

The Bruce Lee Fight (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/99vs66/1980.html)

MasterKiller
10-27-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Songshan
Okay, I can agree that everything she does everything to promote "the legend". Linda Lee will always support her husband. I am not a Bruce Lee historian, but is this the same fight if he won he could teach who he wants and if he loses he must stop teaching? Or is this something I have mixed up here?
Either way, I don't believe that there will ever be a martial artist that will be undefeated. Even if Bruce Lee didn't win against Wong Jack Man it doesn't take away who Bruce Lee was and what he accomplished (which I think is valuable to anyone who studies martial arts). I see Bruce Lee as a pioneer to CMA in America.

The Bruce Lee Fight (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/99vs66/1980.html) You are mixed up because of Linda Lee's lies. The fight was never about who Bruce could and could not teach. The fight was about Bruce Lee running his mouth in Chinatown, saying he could beat anyone. Wong Jack Man stepped up and they fought.

http://www.lakungfu.com/sifujackmanwong.html

Reggie1
10-27-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
Man I love this. There's no *scientific* proof anywhere that weight lifting makes you stiff or inflexible. If anything it promotes the opposite. The only people who say it's bad for you are traditional MAs who heard that from their teacher who also doesn't know what he's talking about.

Really? My personal trainer friend, who is in no way, shape, or form related to the MA world told me that weight training would decrease my flexibility unless I actively countered it with 30 min. or more of stretching post-workout. I'll be more than happy to have him email you if you want--just PM me w/ your email addy and I'll pass it on.

Serpent
10-31-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Reggie1
Really? My personal trainer friend, who is in no way, shape, or form related to the MA world told me that weight training would decrease my flexibility unless I actively countered it with 30 min. or more of stretching post-workout. I'll be more than happy to have him email you if you want--just PM me w/ your email addy and I'll pass it on.
Your personal trainer friend is talking out of his arse. Of course you have to stretch after working out and to keep a good level of flexibility for martial arts, flexibility training is an essential part of your regimen. However, 30 mins or more of stretching post workout to prevent a decrease in flexibility is complete hockey.

SimonM
10-31-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by MasterKiller
You are mixed up because of Linda Lee's lies. The fight was never about who Bruce could and could not teach. The fight was about Bruce Lee running his mouth in Chinatown, saying he could beat anyone. Wong Jack Man stepped up and they fought.

http://www.lakungfu.com/sifujackmanwong.html

Is that entire article from Black Belt or only the part at the top? Who has the by-line on the article?

It was an interesting read and did correspond with my Sifu's occasional comments regarding Bruce Lee. (My Sifu has NEVER claimed to have even been the same room as Bruce Lee but has some strong opinions regarding Bruce Lee based on his own research and contacts in the chinese community. He said about a year back that the story of "Bruce Lee, champion of the Wai Lo" was hogwash and it was because of Bruce's big mouth that he was getting into fights in San Fran.)