sweeps anyone?

[red5angel]

anyone using sweeps effectively and often? It's not a strong point of mine but one or two of the techniques I've learned in capoeira I'm having some succes with is sweeps. Before I would never have used them in sparring and I can't think of a real good example of one being used on me.


Actually come to think of it that isn't completely true, I'm thinking sweep - when you have to go down low and you've sort of committed all your energy into the leg action. I've been swept by opponents using a combination standing sweep/strike.


anyone use a sweep as a feint?

[FngSaiYuk]

Yep, sweeps are great.

I'm rather short, so I don't really rely on kicks and strikes too much. When I'm up against a striker, I watch for their commited strikes and then sweep. Very effective.

I don't use sweeps as feints. Altho' I'll do a hard roundhouse at whatever limb is closest to me as a feint. Again, my limbs are typicall shorter than my opponents, so if my opponent advances to their striking range, I move into clinch range to take them down.

[red5angel]

what sort of strikes are you waiting for, before you'll throw a sweep?

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by red5angel
what sort of strikes are you waiting for, before you'll throw a sweep?

Commited strikes... Basically strikes where the opponent can't move their body back fast enough to avoid my stepping in, hooking or barring their leg with my own and then sweeping them.

[joedoe]

I have successfully used sweeps both as primary attacks and as a method for closing the gap. If I use it as a primary attack I usually set it up with either a punch or a front kick. As a technique for closing the distance, again I lead in with a kick (usually a front kick) then sweep, and quickly back up to follow up with either more kicks or punches.

[Mr Punch]

Kind of.

If you're talking about a sweep 'that sort of commits' in my hsingyi class we do a breakdancing move. We practise it every lesson as a solo thing and against pads, but I haven't used it yet in sparring.

It involves dropping down very low, body upright at the hips but a bit of a forward lean to get the hands near the floor and help counterbalance for more balanced momentum, weight over front foot, and continuing the momentum of the drop to swing your leg round in a big arc along the floor. We concentrate on using the muscle in the crease of the inner thigh to bring the leg round naturally and relaxedly, so we can change direction if it's interrupted or doesn't come off. We also concentrate on stretching and relaxing the butt muscle so as 'not to stop the energy'. The pivot leg is positioned with the knee out over the foot to prevent easily being kicked out.

We practise from the back foot and the front foot and both directions, plus one where we go down and sweep round once, then up and down and sweep round again in the same movement. We practise 180, 360 and 540 degrees, but we're told it's important to be relaxed yet tough enough to be able to stop or change direction at any point, and are also in fact told that the point of doing it so far is simply to practise that kind of fluid relaxation whilst stressing your muscles, NOT that we would ever use such a large turn in sparring.

Like I said, I've never used it in sparring, but my sifu has dropped me with it in light sparring a couple of times. I don't think he could pull it off in heavy sparring: I have just blocked it out with my knee/moved out/moved in a attacked. But having said that, he drops very low and very quick, and his horse stance is excellent... providing him with a very firm base to...

feint. His feint is one of his favourite moves. He'll drop into the sweep and when I stop it he'll stay low, transitioning through a low horse into a really strong flicking back heel sweep (heeling from behind my leg where his foot has naturally ended up when I stop the sweep), which is pretty difficult to defend against.

I have defended against it by kicking his knee, moving my leg when he does the heel and stamping down behind him for my own short sweep, taking his back and running away. I have tried kicking his post leg, which results in me going down harder, andclosing in and hitting him which results in him using the sweep combined with an arm movement to dump me quicker and harder. I haven't tried kicking him in the head yet, but I have reason to believe it would **** me up, unless I really was spot on with the distancing (ie out of his sweep - very difficult given it's range and the lowness of his stance).

I can do the same thing with a standard high sweep (ie change direction and go for a standard heel sweep/throw), but I don't really believe in this low one enough to add it to my bag of tricks.

Long post but is that what you meant?

[Enforcer-]

when you swim the outside of their legs do you aim for the joint behind the knee or lower like the back of the foot near the anckles? also do you aim just for one leg or for both?

[red5angel]

mat - mostly I'm actually talking about sweeps that pretty much totaly committ, or appear too. I never really trained al that hard to sweep effectively because I couldn't make them work that well. Capoeira has forced me to work on it and I"m starting to get really comfortable with it.
In general, the sweeps I have learned so far require you to go low, and for the most part, commit your entire body. Fortunately with the flow of the art, you also learn to recover quickly, and to keep moving to flow into the next tehcnique in a way that makes it less dangerous then I at first would have thought.


but we're told it's important to be relaxed yet tough enough to be able to stop or change direction at any point,

Exactly, and that's what I'm starting to learn. I was either too stiff to begin with, which decreased my ability to respond if the environment changed - and it almost always does in a sweep. When I started learning these sweeps in capoeira, I was almost too loose, because you learn to build momentum with your body and torque produced from your last technique. I've recently, over the last couple of weeks, started to find a nice balance, and it's sort of exciting to see how you can play with sweeps.

one thing I've sort of caught on to quickly is picking the other person foot with your hands. They call those techniques sweeps as well, but essentially since your often partially upside down or sideways in capoeira, and lcose to the floor, you can try to get your opponent to commit to a higher kick or technique, or wiat for him to use one that puts him on one limb and then just reach over and pull their foot out from under them. It happened a lot to me when I sparred with the capoeira guys before I started actually learning it.

enforcer - I'm learning to go for both, and sometimes even closer to the hip. Since we're constantly changing "altitudes" you sort of begin to learn to work with what you can. I'd have to say themajority of the sweeps I have learned so far are targeting around the calve, and usually for one leg, since ideally the other one is committed or busy doing something else.

[Dark Knight]

I love sweeps.

The primary one I use is a front leg sweep. A round house to the ankle. I move foward with a grab and puch with the hands while landing the sweep. They are concerned with the hands, then find themselves off balance. this crosses the centerline and exposes the back.

A followup sweep to the back leg drops them.

My second favorite is the iron broom. I use it on kickers and pople who lift the front leg alot.

I start with the right leg back, move in to where they are looking to kick, and timing is everything. take out the back leg and they hit the ground hard.

use it on your TKD friends, they get caught the most.

For normal fighting I look for a front leg sweep. If I sweep with my right leg I start with it leading, shuffle or cross step in fast and take their front leg.

Most people dont sweep, so its effective because no one prepares for it. (Even though they were all taught it)

[Meat Shake]

Sweeps... I know a few different sweeps...
I use them on occasion, although not my favorite technique. Only way I really use it is when Ive got ahold of their front arm and Im pulling their weight onto the leg Im about to kick out from under them.

[red5angel]

meat shake, are you using mostly standing sweeps then?


since a sweep is generally a sort of vulnerable position, how are you guys recovering if things don't go as planned?

[MoreMisfortune]

You might be a king or a little street sweeper,
but sooner or later you'll dance with the reaper!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Meat Shake]

"since a sweep is generally a sort of vulnerable position, how are you guys recovering if things don't go as planned?"

Hmm.. I think Id need to see what you mean by "sweep"...
There is kicking and sweeping in shuai chiao... Sweeping is like a judo foot sweep, and kicking is... well... its kicking... Similar to iron broom Im guessing. I only use standing takedowns. I dont like to go to the ground if I dont have to.
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/deashibarai.htm
Thats what I mean by a standard foot sweep, but I use my hand to push their face backwards to unbalance them. Even if you bungle it, you shouldnt be in too disadvantegous a position unless they are in a throwing art...

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogari.htm
We call that "shaving". I much prefer it to a sweep because it can be disguised as just a step forward. It closes the gap while taking the opponent down. I like it. :)

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm
"Chopping"... Another great takedown that could more or less be considered a "sweep"... Ive seen this taught as a standard sweep in a karate school before.

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogake.htm
Yet another variation of a sweep.... There are tons of them.

[SevenStar]

I haven't read all of this yet, but I sweep all the time. sweeps are great as both attacks and feints. In judo, I am taught to always sweep - it keeps your opponent thinking and moving - setting himself up for something. when you are clinched, if he's not worried about your sweep, he will advance, fight for grips, etc. because he's not worried about his feet. by sweeping him, he's more cautious about moving in as he is concernced about getting swept. I tend to use sweeps to set up big throws. If the sweep works, great. If it doesn't, follow up with the big throw.

[red5angel]

this link:

http://www.wu-wien.ac.at/usr/h96b/h9650297/cap-basics.html#negativa

has some drawn out examples that might show what I'm learning right now -

Negativa (takedown)

meia lua de compasso can be used with a low kick as a sweep

Rasteira

Tesoura - it's a scissors

Those are a couple. As you can see, most capoeira take downs require you to be low, there are more but these are good examples od what I'm currently learning.


meatshake, yeah the footsweep is what I'm talking about when I say standing sweep, for the most part anyway. I picked up a few in wingchun that were ok.

Funny you guys should bring up Judo though. If I remember correctly, Mestre Bimba was also a Judo afficianado and part of the changes he made to create the regional style of capoeira was to add some judo techniques into it.

[MasterKiller]

CMA low sweeps are done with the body still upright so you can recover or string a combo if you miss. Concerning that negativa, I would use my left leg to sweep instead of my right (as in the picture) so I can keep my bodyweight over my right foot in case I had to stand back up/ transition quickly. PLus, I don't think you can get the same whip by using your lead leg as pictured.

[red5angel]

in negative it may not be considered a "sweep" but the idea is that you hook the heel with your foot and pull it towards you, so you're not sweeping your foot through the leg your sweeping over, making contact then pulling the foot out from under them with the hook of your leg. The picture can be slightly misleading.

[MasterKiller]

We do the same thing, but we hook the back of the opponents leg with our bodies facing the ground (instead of hooking from left to right with the right leg like the picture, we hook right to left with the right leg). Again, my weight would be on my left foot in case I had to get up quickly.

[red5angel]

in that picture he's using an angole negativa, so his weight would be on his left foot, and his hands, it's also an awkward position to be in but angola is supposed to be played slowly. In regional, you would only be touching the ground with your right hand so your weight is on your right hand and left foot which tends to lend itself to better reaction time, but it's not as stable.

[Enforcer-]

why not go for both legs in this trip (I wouldnt call it a sweep):
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

And if the other guy wasnt wearing a shirt or a gi would he grab the gut or the neck?


btw, on blacktaoists site he has some sparring clips where he used sweeps.

[Enforcer-]

I find sweeps in a clinch are alot easier to pull off than when not holding on to the other guy. what about grabbing his shoulder with your right hand and quickly pull a sweep toward their legs?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
why not go for both legs in this trip (I wouldnt call it a sweep):
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

And if the other guy wasnt wearing a shirt or a gi would he grab the gut or the neck?


btw, on blacktaoists site he has some sparring clips where he used sweeps.


o soto gari - major outter reap - it's purpose is to reap the outside leg. When the kazushi is properly done, the opponent is leaning backward - no need to sweep both legs. Also, there is a chance that while doing o soto, you will fall also. by sweeping that one leg, you can bring your leg back out and fall into a position of control (like kesa gatame) before you hit the ground. I imaging that sweeping the second leg would make that harder because you have to pull your leg back a greater distance.

[Shaolinlueb]

ive sweeped front legs out before in fights and had it work.

[SevenStar]

sure you have...


:p