lightness skill

[Enforcer-]

check this out? (is there any clips of lightness skill?):
http://www.ziranmen.com/zi%20ran%20men9.htm

[Internal Boxer]

Thats a training tech used by some old Bagua guys, but with a large very wide barrel, filled with water which is gradually emptied with proficiency, but as we a lot of these things it probably more myth than anything else.

[Enforcer-]

but if it is real than why did the Chinese never demonstrate it in front of the world like the olympics or on camera? The olympics were around for a long time and the Chinese participated for a long time even showcasing chinese martial arts sometimes like in the berlin games of the early 30's. If this skill was real they could own all the high jump competitions and others but they never have,

[SPJ]

There are many ways to train to walk in a circle.

You may draw the steps in a circle and follow them.

When you are good, just draw a line of circle and walk on it.

To train the light step or Ching Gong.

You have to wear weights (lead or bags of flour), 1#, 2# 5# up to 25 # on your legs and walk or run.

Good link.

[Enforcer-]

but can you actually jump over walls like in movies and martial art stories about famous masters?

[SPJ]

No, the movies and the novels exaggerate a lot.

You may jump higher and walk fast and quietely. True.

:)

[Becca]

There are alot of ways to train ching gong. Another way would be to practice jumping onto logs without knocking them over, while gradually incresing the hight. Another would be to do moon jumps, landing as souldlessly as possible, and increasing the hight as you master it. This is only tow such meathods. There are countless others.

[IronFist]

Yeah, so why don't Olympic jumpers train this way?

[Becca]

:confused: Why would they. They are trying to jump highest or furthest. Thay care ona whit for how softly or quietly they moove. Dang Iron! That would be like working on your backstroke to improove your rowing.:confused:

[Enforcer-]

similar argument on this thread:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33243&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by Becca
:confused: Why would they. They are trying to jump highest or furthest. Thay care ona whit for how softly or quietly they moove. Dang Iron! That would be like working on your backstroke to improove your rowing.:confused:

But it'd be frickin' kewl! :D

[MoreMisfortune]

I BELIVE I CAN FLY
I BELIVE I CAN TOUCH THE SKY

[bung bo]

Are there any neigong exercises used to develop lightness gong? I wouldn't think all the methods would be totally external.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(Are there any neigong exercises used to develop lightness gong? I wouldn't think all the methods would be totally external.)

As with many things it is an internal exercise with external results

I think many are looking at this skill in the wrong way. In each instance of what is described as lightness gong, what is really being demoed ?

I would say, balance, ability to sink the root and complete control of ones center. . I would expect some one with such skill to be very free, light and agile in movement and touch. The opposite of stiff, clumsy and heavy.

Which would you want to have.

[FuXnDajenariht]

look at the legends of ninja so totally sweet that they could come in, slap your momma and disappear before u'd realize it! ;)

[SPJ]

Agreed.

Ninja disappearing acts are forefathers of modern day magician acts. Full of deceptions to trick your eyes.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

SPJ,

But like modern day magicians, they think laterally in order to confound their enemies. Ninjas have the advantage of disguizes and gadedgery like modern day spies.

If they encounter a group of enraged samuris, they won't stand their gorund and fight them with katanas but would use, throw stars, smoke bombs and spikes to cover his escape into the bamboo groves. Those smauris who are silly enough to follow the ninja would be cut up one at a time through well planned ambushes.

One on one, sword against sword, the samuri would be vastly superior. But the ninjas have cunning and stealth on their side. That's why they wear black, like the F117A fighter or B2 bomber of today.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Ninjai didn't wear black. Thats a myth.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

FuXnDajenariht,

You're right. The color's actually grey, or was that red ...... better steathiness than black.

[IronFist]

Lightness training that enabled you to fly or leap over a house would give you a huge advantage in the Olympics.

Why do you say a samurai would own a ninja in a one-on-one fight? They both studied a similar version of the same art. Assuming the ninja wasn't allowed to use any special tricks I think it would be a pretty even match.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

IronFist,

Ninjas practiced lightness skill, but certainly couldn't leap over houses. They can jump high, but that's not good against someone who's weilding a katana who could easily slice you up in mid air. Fact is samuris practice using the sword alot more than a ninja.

But if the Ninja had some kind of chain / rope dart, he could latch the this on to a tree to swing himslef up with the assistance of lightless skill. As the samuri looks up in confusion, he could release a volley of shirikans to slow down the samuri.

It's not entirely true that Ninjas can jump across roof, but with the aid of their grappling tools they can swing across large expanses without a problem.

Wearing gray or red gives them camoflague against the night sky especially when then stake out their victims high up in the tree tops and they training their night vision. This is the art of evasion! They also have rolls and steps and techs ( like throwing sand in your eyes while they step behind you, or rolls they can easily gain 10 ft out of there from ) that just make it look like they're dissappearing. Masters of illusion indeed.


btw ninjutsu came from china if trace it back far enough and samuri is Japanese.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
FuXnDajenariht,

You're right. The color's actually grey, or was that red ...... better steathiness than black.

yea i can sense the sarcasm, but grey wooould actually be more stealthy than black. do a search on it. do you know how much you'd stick out in a forest in bright daylight wearing black? plus some historians question the whole ninja outfit thing anyway. they were farmers after all. i dont think it mattered how much u tried to hide ur face. if u were someplace u weren't supposed to be and not a samurai chances are ur ass had a lot of explaining to do. think about it...could i get away with preteniding to be a lowly farmer in peasants clothes if i had an all black "ninja" outfit on? thats just my opine-yon tho

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

FuXnDajenariht,

You're right. In the day time they may appear to be lowly farmers while they observe their target. They will dorne their black or grey outfit at night, scale the high walls of the imperial castle do the assination and disappear into the night.

[FuXnDajenariht]

thats a possiblity. but they supposedly trained in disguises, deception and acting just as much as assassining(i know its not a word). doesn't Bujinkan have an entire ryu based on that? you might get closer to your target pretending to be his servant than flying around on a grappling hook taking out guards with ninja stars. lol

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

FuXnDajenariht,

Yes, some ninjas do that. They are very good with disguises and painstaking replicate the dress code, mannerizm and imitate voices so they can blend in. It takes guts to do that, because one slip and the game is up. These ninjas would study more in the way of humanities, learning language skills and cultures.

Some ninjas prefer the quick and agressive approach, using their tricks and gadgetry to the full. These ninjas are more the military tacticain who will scope out in great detail and partience the flaws in their opponent's defence and act rapidly on that when the time is right.

A ninja with good skill sets in both would be a very dangerous opponent, much like espianoge agents who not only can ski and also tango.

[EarthDragon]

Listening to the two of you is really cracking me up! Such an authority on something that really never happened and has been embemlished to the point of ninja's flying through the air LOL.

I am not saying that ninjitsu never exsisted, it did. However it is a Japanese term used to mean something not someone.

In fuedal japan there were people paid to gather intellegence, that's all. Sometimes when escaping capture they would flee and the more times they would flee he more they needed to work on aids to help them , hence escape tools, but as this legend grew it was a good story to tell children, of the silent assasins who dressed in black and would sneak into the halls and kill samurai's.

This has grown over 500 years to sound like the stories you guys have told in your posts. Or maybe you just saw one to many Steve Hayes ninja movies.

I love it when people on this board say things so outrageous but sound so conviencing to the point where I think they actually believe what they say..........

What ever it is please dont stop it's good for a laugh..............

[IronFist]

Dark blue is the best color. At night, dark black will stand out and people will see your outline.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
Listening to the two of you is really cracking me up! Such an authority on something that really never happened and has been embemlished to the point of ninja's flying through the air LOL.

I am not saying that ninjitsu never exsisted, it did. However it is a Japanese term used to mean something not someone.

In fuedal japan there were people paid to gather intellegence, that's all. Sometimes when escaping capture they would flee and the more times they would flee he more they needed to work on aids to help them , hence escape tools, but as this legend grew it was a good story to tell children, of the silent assasins who dressed in black and would sneak into the halls and kill samurai's.

This has grown over 500 years to sound like the stories you guys have told in your posts. Or maybe you just saw one to many Steve Hayes ninja movies.

I love it when people on this board say things so outrageous but sound so conviencing to the point where I think they actually believe what they say..........

What ever it is please dont stop it's good for a laugh..............

who the hell said anything about ninja flying through the air? and how the hell do you know what i believe and dont? i didn't think it was a crime to speculate about something. im glad you find it so humorous though. hmm and your a sifu?

[EarthDragon]

enforcer said..........."but can you actually jump over walls like in movies and martial art stories about famous masters"?


then you said................ you might get closer to your target pretending to be his servant than flying around on a grappling hook taking out guards with ninja stars.

So to answer your question........ YOU DID!

I never said I knew what you believe. it just seems you have bought into the bedtime stories about ninja's blowing their simple taks out of porportion.

it's not a crime to speculate, but is that what you are doing? specualting?

Or are you just posting stories youver heard and trying to make other people belive what you say?

Is it not my right to laugh to something I find amusing? especially fairtales like the ones you have posted?

And yes I am a shrfu..... 6th generation lineage holder of Ba Bu Tang Lang to be exact.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Ok for one. I never claimed to know anything about ninjutsu. I have some interest in it, but I dont lose sleep thinking about whether they match a hollywood image or not.

Second, you really shouldn't take things so literally. Theres this thing called sarcasm and in your defense it might be a lil hard to judge when someone is joking on an internet forum, but do i really need to fill up my posts with smilie faces for you to get it? I thought the tone was set with my first post........anyway

Ego and Enforcer posted their thoughts about how ninja operated back then, which i do believe are probably embellished. So i posted a what if situation which i clearly labeled as my opinion, that made a lil more sense to me than climbing walls and flying around on ropes to . And yes i got a few of my opinions from "histories" that i read about their art.

Historians rarely agree on anything and how could they unless they have unnaturally long life spans? Most history after a certain point is mostly speculation. I dont know where you got your info from but i doubt everyone agrees with that either. I dont pull things out of my ass. If i said something that i wanted you to believe i would of left a source. Plain and simple.

And im sorry but i didn't know i was being monitored by the thought police. I promise ill be more politically correct next time. Hold on..... first lemme put the stick back in my ass.....Oh wait, i lost mines........lemme borrow yours.

Oh i know what'll make you feel better..... Not only can you kick my ass but your so superior to me in every way :rolleyes: Happy now? The whole forum knows.

[SPJ]

Yes, Ninja used a lot of tricks in deception.

It is said they may disappear into the earth, the water and the air etc.

My interpretation would be use of camouflage and distractions.

A smoke bomb in front of you and run for the nearest cover. The samurai knows Ninja is still around, just does not know where. Behind the trees, hiding under the water or where etc.

Or an arrow to your left and Ninja runs to your right or behind you. Samurai is used as a cover, too.

On and on.

That is why I refered it as a magician trick.

Peace.

[EarthDragon]

Fuxndajenardit,
I apologize if I came across harshly and you were just being funny. It's just that when I said you two were cracking me up you got very defensive in the next post to me. I took that as you actually belived what you were saying.

I have read some pretty horrendous (sp?) claims and stories that people have the misguided view about, so I like to help them understand by posting the truth about the subject at hand and dont really kid about martial arts the way I do other things and maybe thats my downfall.

I got into a disscussion with 2 guys that were completely wrong in thier understanding until the one guy said they were talking about a video game. Whoops!
but you never know what kind of knowledge people have out here some may have been told something untrue and then they go on to tell others and if no one corrdcts them they go on to believe that.

And finally.......... yes I can kick your A$$................................... hear any sarcasm in that?

[SPJ]

What interests me most are their weapons and fighting styles.

It is said that each Ninja has his or her own unique weapons and unique ways of kylling.

It is usually passing down from one teacher to one student only. As if Robinhood or Zorro is with the same style, but not the same person.

They are from the farmers or lower class. Since the samurai is fighting for the higher class.

There are 40 or more weapons on the clothes. In order to sneak into a mansion, assinate one person and return safely, each weapon needs one kyll. If Ninja is out of 40 weapons with 40 kylls and still trapped by guards, he or she is doomed.

The access and escape routes are investigated and planned. More weapons or clothes are hidden along the route. Use a rope to climb is necessary to get in and escape. They usually work alone. However, they may have an assistant waiting on the way out. So one of the assistant may pull Ninja up against the wall, while he or she is climbing and thus perceived as jump or walking up the wall.

With all that sworn secrecy for life, the assistant usually is the student.

Peace.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
Fuxndajenardit,
I apologize if I came across harshly and you were just being funny. It's just that when I said you two were cracking me up you got very defensive in the next post to me. I took that as you actually belived what you were saying.

I have read some pretty horrendous (sp?) claims and stories that people have the misguided view about, so I like to help them understand by posting the truth about the subject at hand and dont really kid about martial arts the way I do other things and maybe thats my downfall.

I got into a disscussion with 2 guys that were completely wrong in thier understanding until the one guy said they were talking about a video game. Whoops!
but you never know what kind of knowledge people have out here some may have been told something untrue and then they go on to tell others and if no one corrdcts them they go on to believe that.

And finally.......... yes I can kick your A$$................................... hear any sarcasm in that?

yes you probably could but i dont lose sleep over that either. maybe i should work on my fighting skills and you can work on not coming off as a douchebag and making assumptions even if you are "correct". its nice to know that tact is dead and gone with most people. so i dont hafta pretend to be nice to anyone anymore.... :rolleyes:

[SPJ]

ED is a good teacher with many good students.

I am much impressed by his knowledge and humility.

Your humbleness makes me humble.

Ba Bu Mantis is a summary of a lot of good ideas from many mantis schools.

Gou Luo Cai Kua.

San Chan Teng No.

:cool:

[Becca]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
I dont know where you got your info from but i doubt everyone agrees with that either.
You'd be wrong... He was more or less on the dot about how ninjitsu got started. The most notable difference between nijas and farmers was... nothing. Even most of the weapons used were farming impliments. They didn't were fancy outfits. They had no special rituals, other than perhaps personal ones like what you'd find anywere. It didn't evolve into something more ritualized untill they Feudal days of the samuri had passed. It was ritualized only so the tradition would not be lost. :)

[EarthDragon]

FuXnDajenariht,
I didnt think I came across as a doucebag.
Name calling is a little harsh in this disscussion dont you think?

I was simply trying to set the record straight and bring truth to the disscussion and got amused in the proceess simply from what I read.
When you brought to my attention that you were just being funny, I apologized for trying to correct you.........................

But tact is indeed in place , and yes you should try to be nice to everyone, even if they dont deserve it.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Instead of picking out what i said to make fun of it, if you came at me the right way i would of been likely to agree with you, but you didn't so excuse me if i took it a little personal. I though i was back in HS for a sec........ Superiority complexes dont win any converts.....and I like when people speak the correct and i caaan take criticism about what i say. I think thats part of the point of being on a forum. History's my favorite subject and i know theres alot of bs so i know to keep an open mind. I do apologize for name calling. I shouldn't post when im ****ed.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by Becca
You'd be wrong... He was more or less on the dot about how ninjitsu got started. The most notable difference between nijas and farmers was... nothing. Even most of the weapons used were farming impliments. They didn't were fancy outfits. They had no special rituals, other than perhaps personal ones like what you'd find anywere. It didn't evolve into something more ritualized untill they Feudal days of the samuri had passed. It was ritualized only so the tradition would not be lost. :)

I think thats kind of what i was getting at....

[katrina_stearns]

Originally posted by EarthDragon

tact is indeed in place , and yes you should try to be nice to everyone, even if they dont deserve it.

hearing that !!

[EarthDragon]

FuXnDajenariht................

It was not a personal attack, this is all I said................

Listening to the two of you is really cracking me up! Such an authority on something that really never happened and has been embemlished to the point of ninja's flying through the air LOL.

I dont think that was personal or came across as the wrong way. but again I thought you really belived what you were posting.

no worries

[Ray Pina]

Honestly though, a Green Beret would own a Navy Seal. Because he'd hide in the jungle with his camo face and little beret and wait for the Seal to walk up on the beach....


No way, stupid. The Seal would parachute in behind the Beret and stalk him and sneak up on him or even better yet get him with his sniper rifle....

Don't be silly. Everyone knows that Green Berets spend much more time with their sniper rifle than Navy Seal's do. Seals are too busy picking up bricks from the bottom of pools and carrying logs on their heads while jogging the beach....


God ****, this board is re-fu(king-diculous sometimes.