Training time.... Combat Proficiency vs. Kung Fu.

[Ten Tigers]

There seems to be a lot of biting kicking and scratching when it comes to the topic of how long a person should train before being able to claim combat proficincy, or being a Sifu.

It was my understanding that Wing Chun was designed with a faster learning curve in mind. Classic styles took far too long to develop, and only more practical techniques and principles were carried over. I know, I know, Im cutting into sacred cow material. But I have to know. I was told, that with any level of apptitude coupled with disciplined training (more than once or twice a week), can yeild combat proficincy in as short as a year. Not at a kung fu level, but combat proficient. Three years to learn the system. Again not at a kung Fu level. Just the 3 forms and mook yang jong.

And please, my kung fu brothers and sisters, forgive my atrocious spelling.

I love a good fight...

[Martial Joe]

Its true...but it takes a long time if you want to be very very good...but thats a whole different thing...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[Ten Tigers]

Right on. At least one person appears to know what kung fu means. There is a differance between knowing any given skill and having kung fu with it. I just wanted to know if that aspect of wing chun was accepted and or aknowledged. There seems to be a lot of contraversy amongst our kind in regards to what is and is not Wing Chun. Thank you for your attention Martial Joe.

I love a good fight...

[Martial Joe]

No problem bud!

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[Ten Tigers]

First of all, special thanks to Martial Joe for answering me.

Secondly, I am highly dissapointed in this site. It has mutated into a troll show. Unless there is much contraversy and/or mudslinging, nobody seems to be very interested in trading ideas, or answering questions. Which is what brought me here originaly.

That being said, unless something gives around here I may not even return. This is more of a desperate plea for a return of sanity than a cry for attention. Im sorry if I am disapointing any of my kung fu brothers/sisters, this just seems to be a useless expediture of energy. Something Wing Chun advises against.

I pray that I do find something to keep me here for a while longer, but till then I want to say fare thee well.

To the senior TenTigers: See, I didnt last here for very long. I hope sharing screen names did not overly anger you. Im sorry if the brashness of my youth prevoked you.

I love a good fight...

[weakstudent]

maybe the post wasn't interesting for the people here. i mean if it wasn't for you saying know ones answers post then i would have just read it and moved on. and you are right wing chun was develope with a shorter learning span in mind and combat readyness faster then the other arts.

nelson

[Ten Tigers]

I must sincerly thank you sir. Because of your assistance in one of the few threads I have posted here, I have been given the distinct honor of extending my Wing Chun training beyond a mere practicioner. I am on my way to starting an intense training regime, with instruction in mind. If I ever do reach the level of Sifu. Know that you played a part in that with your helpfulness to a complete stranger. I thank God that for all the crap I have to put up with in this world, He arranges small things like that. And thoes small acts eventually change my life for the better.

I never in my wildest dreams, thought I could make a living with the one thing that I enjoy most in life. Regardless of my potential kwoon's potential income, I will be a rich man simply because I can sustain myself doing something that actually compels me to get out of bed on a daily basis.

I just thought you might like to know what you played a part of. Thanks again brother. I didnt want to leave this site before telling you thankyou at the very least.

I love a good fight...

[whippinghand]

Wing Chun was modified to accomodate a "shorter learning span", not designed that way.

[Watchman]

No problem, bro. I try and help wherever and whenever I can. :D

Keep me posted on how things progress.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

One is weak because he makes preparations against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu

[TjD]

i think a teacher should at least have an understanding of what each form is trying to teach, and be proficient in all the drills - sticking hands, sticking legs; mixed hands and legs; entering; and pure sparring

then he could be a sifu :)

im thinkin that would probably take between 5-10 years

peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[Martial Joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> nobody seems to be very interested in trading ideas, or answering questions. [/quote]

People arent as talkitive as they used to be,but on the wing chun forum I dont see it so bad...on the kung fu forum it is bad.

The last post I put up wich is Private Fighting got about 40 replies of greef.Mostly everyone misunderstood me.I think in that post i was very straight foward.

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[Martial Joe]

by the way,I read your profile and it said street fighting,so maybe you could relate to what I have written...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[Ten Tigers]

It isnt so much that nobody responded to the post right away, it is just that what I originaly found in this board doesnt exist. I swear that this is National Enquirer On-Line for martial artists than the site that originaly got me all fired up.

Sorry I have been so slow to respond, the only time I can post is when I am at work. Coupled with the fact that it has been busier than I have ever seen it before, I cant get a word in vertical.

I love a good fight...

[Ten Tigers]

Actualy, I need a little clairification. Are we talking about a bunch of different fighters, willingly fighting, or is this like people fu(king with you? Or is it you STARTING something with somebody and provoking a fight that would normaly not happen. It is very important for me to know this before I issue you my standard sub-standard opinion on the matter. Sorry, I dont have the time to read the whole thread as this pretty much concludes the last of my final break for the day so I wont be able to get back to you till tommorow. But please clarify for me and I will be happy to get back to you tommorow.

I love a good fight...

I love a good fight...

[lotus kick]

the first step of finding death is seeking it.

[jesper]

I have found that some people are able to fight very well within 6 month of studying WT. And it really is a quick system be skilled at. 3-5 years is my guess. But if you really wants to understand the concept and master it, you are looking at between 20-30 years.
The funny part is that the old saying "the more you learn, the less you know" is actually quite true. After 15-16 years of training im still puzzled by some small detail about some technics, and keep getting reminded of how little I truly know about WT :)

[Ten Tigers]

Actually, the first step of death is being born. Besides, I would rather live 30 years doing that which interests/excites me rather than die wondering at 85. I do thank you for your concern however. It's a martial mentality. It is just something that most people obviously cant comprehend. Therefore it makes us (take your pick:undiciplined, amatures, not real martial artists, stoopid heads, etc...).

Then again I merely speak of private, freestyle, full contact competition. Im not sure I understand the meaning your fortune cookie.

People can even get killed in American Boxing. If this basic principle of combat disturbs someone, I would recomend a safer hobby. There are just as many safe, culturaly interesting, mentaly enlightening activities out there. Caligraphy, painting, ballet.

I love a good fight...

[Ten Tigers]

Thanks, for the response. That's what I'm talking about. Tell that to some people. They will whip out their full Karate Kid library and proceede to show you why it is impossable to develop anykind of useable skill in a relatively short time. I just wondered if anyone else was told that by their Sifu. (that it IS possable)

I love a good fight...

[CanadianBadAss]

I think part of problem is that a lot of the people on this forum are fairly new to martial arts, and don't know enough to post about real kung fu stuff, or the question is to obscurer no one would know the answer any way. So they end up just posting dumb off topic things that they know about. And then the guy who posted the real kung fu question gets ****ed off because he got 0 replies, and some post about how rolls is really a flying monkey from space gets like 50 responses…
And that’s why your getting lots of replies now, because the topic really isn’t about kung fu any more, it’s about what I’m talking about.

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[CanadianBadAss]

wait, never mind, i didn't notice the second page, you actually are getting some real answers...

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[Martial Joe]

Ten Tigers~I am talking about if some kid messes with me and goes looking for a fight hes got one if he wants it,basically...


By the way,that was some stuff you said to Lotus...

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[CanadianBadAss]

Joe the kind of kid that’s going to go up to you and try to start something isn’t going to listen to you when ask him to come find a safe place to fight. He's going to want to fight right there, and if you don't he going to say your a ***** and that'll be that. Because chances are he's afraid to fight, he just want to look tough in front of his friends.

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[Martial Joe]

I know bad ass,but if it happens I will try and get it out of school as much as I can...

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[Martial Joe]

This isnt good...I have turned ten tigers post into not only his but mine...if you want to talk about this do it in my post...

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[Ten Tigers]

You are right. Thanks for your concideration. As to my reply to my response to lotus, I was just trying to be honest without being sarcastic/insulting. I have a real problem with that. I see you in your thread for my response.

I love a good fight...

[Ten Tigers]

From an enlightened fortune cookie to a troll in 1.5 posts. What did you do? Read my profile, and try to push the most obvious button? Gee, what a funny, intelligent little troll. Dont you have some training to do? Oh thats right, your a troll posing as a martial artist. Happy fishing.

P.S. You are more likely to die by shooting your mouth off to the wrong person (not that you have the vertebra/testicles required to do so in person), long before someone winds up dying from free-sparring.

Luh-hew-zuh-her.

I love a good fight...

[This message was edited by Ten Tigers on 08-22-01 at 08:16 PM.]

[lotus kick]

wing chun is not my life.
I consider my life as a book, if it's a book about a troll, then so be it. You don't have to read it.

Also, I seen your profile. I'll make sure the local newspaper will inclued it in your obituary.

One last thing, I'm not stupid enough to post the stupid things i have done in my life.