Statement Made By Wong Shun Leung

[Chum Kil]

"Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility" --Wong Shun Leung


What did he mean by this? What are your interpertations?

John

Have little and gain;
Have much and be confused.

[kungfu cowboy]

Maybe he had a secret desire to write mystery novels? :confused:

"I ain't got time for no jibber-jabber!"-----Mr. T

[El_CLap]

Didn't he also say that Wing Chun was a gun? A weapon of sorts? I believe that he meant that Wing Chun is a weapon. Our moves don't work just defensively. We have to attack.

[Chum Kil]

"Didn't he also say that Wing Chun was a gun? A weapon of sorts?"

I think I read something to that affect also.

"I believe that he meant that Wing Chun is a weapon. Our moves don't work just defensively. We have to attack."

Good analogy. To me the forward intent is always there, at least I hope it is when I need it.

kungfu cowboy

It does sound mysterious.

John

Have little and gain;
Have much and be confused.

[Martial Joe]

Wong Shun Long is saying that wing chun was made for combat and nothing else...I think...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[chongnoi]

What IMHO he is saying, is that the only true 100% effective form of self-defense is invisibility. Anyone who has been in combat or in s serious self defense situation will tell you-there is no true self-defense. For example, you have trained hard in Wing Chun for Ten years, are in superb athletic condition, can out box most men your size-but some stupid idiot who is way out of shape attacks you with a knife. He has the upper hand and a tremendous advatage against you being unarmed. 99% faith in God and good luck and 1% wing chun skills will help you survive. I am not saying do not study wing chun, but the more I have trained martial arts (9 years wing chun) and from 6 years US Army Special Operations, I have come to realize more and more, as WSL, realized, that fighting is mostly a no win situation. A god big man will always beat a better small man for example. Aggression and adrenalain control are more important in a fight than martial art skill. There are no winners in Combat. I ahve been very fortunate to have survived through several war zones and fights and a knife attack. And IMHO all I can say is try to avoid fighting at all cost. There is no true unbeatable self-defense system. But the reason to study wing chun, is it will increase your survivability in a self defense situation-just to not be over confident or have false hollywood dreams.

[[Censored]]

Martial arts, WC included, are all about attack and counterattack (justified or not). The phrase "self-defense" is thrown about so often in marketing contexts, that we sometimes forget it is completely inapplicable.

How many soccer moms will drop their kids off at a school of "arguably justified counterattack"? :)

The only true method of self-defense is not to be there, or to be invisible when you are there.

[vertical fist]

chong noi's post is brilliant.

"Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do."

[vertical fist]

Yeah, good point Censored. Not being there.
Alot of people put them selves in a fight by being in harm's way unnecessarily; surrounding themselves with the wrong people, running thier mouths, etc. And then they have to "defend themselves" physically, when walking away, apologizing or something would have worked better.

"Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do."

[Scott]

I didn't read through your posts word for word, but they seem a little off. I think what he meant was:

Fighting is never self defense. We're lying to ourselves when we say that we want to use Wing Chun for "self defense." In truth, if you wanted to avoid confrontation, RUNNING would be a much better option--that's true self defense. When we learn Wing Chun, we learn how to hurt other people. If we were only interested in getting away without being harmed, learning how to run and hide would be much more on target.

-Scott

"Life is hard, but so am I." -- The Eels.

[Martial Joe]

that was nice scott...

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[Turiyan]

Cause not only can I become invisible at will (a skill I discoverd as a child) but i'm invincible.

I think the only-children have these abilitys.

Quote of the day: "Its okay, lots of losers are overachievers"

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, who is the giver of spiritual birth, the teacher of prescribed duty, is by right the father of an old man, though himself be a child." --Verse 22 of inner text of Brahminism

[jesper]

There are two ways of looking at this.
First the best defence is not to be there or at least not to be seen, hence the invisibility.
Second you must never think in the line of defending yourself. That implies you have lost the initiative in combat which is very dangerous. Therefor WT is all about attack. As soon as you sense your agressor will strike, you attack until hes out of the picture.

[Chum Kil]

Excellent answers. To summarize, I guess avoid fights and if confronted stay relaxed and wipe the ******* out.

John

Have little and gain;
Have much and be confused.

[El_CLap]

Exactly. It's a weapon. You don't defend a gun with a gun. You shoot things with a gun before they can shoot you.

[brainpan]

"Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility" ---WSL

<hr >
<font size=2 type="helvetica" color="blue">Hong Kong Phooey is a #1 superguy! </font>

[Slayer]

He ment that if you just want to learn how to defend yourself you shouldnt learn Wing Chun. Wing Chun attacks the attacker as defence.

[lotus kick]

he is saying that TRUE Wing Chun is dangerous. If an stupid street punk learns it, it's like giving a gun to a monkey.

It's a note to all sifu out there to choose their students carfully. Teaching the true art to the wrong student can have dire consequences.

[tiger_1]

W.C.L.like to say take wing chun realy and thinks about that like progresiv weapons inside your hands.big master and great wingchunger is man tho have real road inside wing chun and tho is born BEIMO big parth and progres inside wing chun world . tiger_1 ;)

/

[straightblast5]

Sifu Wong means that Ving Tsun (Wing Chun) should not be looked upon as a form of “self-defense”, but as a weapon (or a tool) used to destroy and incapacitate others. The term "self-defense" implies that you are defending yourself in a passive manner. But in truth you cannot defend yourself by using Wing Chun (or by firing a gun) without seriously harming your opponent.

Sifu Wong is cautioning practitioners not to be naive about Ving Tsun’s or any other weapon’s purpose. When protecting yourself using any type of weapon (be it Wing Chun, a gun, or a missile), you are doing so by striking down another.

His statement is by no means a moral statement, but is a warning to those who have misconceptions on the realities of combat and self-protection.

Also it should be noted that the statement in question is a quote from an article written by Roy Horan in the September 1983 issue of Black Belt Magazine. So, after being translated into English, it is understandable how Sifu Wong’s statement would appear a little cryptic.

Hope this helps.

[vingtsunstudent]

the best form of defence is attack.
i have never seen anyone use nothing but defensive moves to knock someone out, at some stage you must attack even if it is in the disguise of a defencive move.
'If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun.'
ving tsun is brutal & wong was a master of it, in many of his fights it was said that if you blinked you may have missed the fight, such was the speed he would end an encounter.the longer you let a fight go,even if you are far superior there is always the chance they may land a lucky punch & proceed to finish it by jumping on your head.
pure fighting(self-defence---god i hate that term) is just that, no f'n around.
wong often also said that to watch to woman fight was some of the best no nonsence fighting you would see. for those who have seen 2 untrained women fight it is quite something to behold, unlike most men who like to flex or shape to each other,(i love the guys who take there shirt off & begin flexing, yelling & even warming up) women just go for it, they'll pull hair, scratch(claw),slap, kick, punch whatever to win.
to wong, he would say that was pure efficiency,pure(so-called) self defence.
sorry if i've rambled a bit.
vts