time, space, and energy --- is it or is it not?

[yellowpikachu]

time, space, and energy are the products or individual personal consciousness.

Due to individual personal consciousness, Everyone percieve time, space, and energy very differently, thus everyone does SLT in a different way.

One can clearly know time, space, and energy are a product of individual personal consciousness simply by looking at what it means by "money" for oneself. " how everyone percieve it is very different.


Thus, time, space, and energy is not what the Shao Lin core which was called the Immovable heart or the Mas Oyama's Zen attainment---

" If, on the other hand, you are in a Zen state while in combat, you perceive not the individual attack, but the entire situation.

Your mind and body act as one, bypassing the normal reaction time to automatically perform the necessary defense measure. "


The immovable heart, the Oyama's Zen attainment, or the Non dual is level's beyond the time, space, and energy concept. It is beyond the personal conscious. Thus, in classical CMA or Zen it is said Thus it is. When a Samurai Sword cut down, one response with Thus it is. Beyond the personal consciousness there are spontaneous and vast freedom.


As within the personal conscious mind, Time, space, and energy are limitation. and this limitation is influence by the personal signature. Such as how one view money. Is it about scacity? Is it about abundant? is it energy flow? is it .... etc all different and all combination.

Why is this important to know? This is important to know because once one attach to a fix time, space, and energy view, one got stuck.

In martial art, if one takes a certain fix view as the TRUTH. In money, if one takes Donal Trump's "the appentice" view as the TRUTH. At that point, things become rigid, genelization, and can never goes beyond. That become a limit. Attachment is limit. once it get into personal consciousness. it becomes a limit.


ummoveable heart or Zen is totally opposite, it is about not having a limit. Droping or let go the limit and living in this instant. In this instant there is Thus it is --- co-exit in many many diamention beyond the "dull, mechanical; time, space, and energy".



one can advocate fighting, martial art is formless, no shape.....ect. but when it comes to a certain thing such as SLT or Power generation, one brought up " my sifu says. (that is in someway indicating "my sifu knows it all" There goes the formless :D. See how easy we can get trap by ourself :D) or, This is bad. This is good....(ofcause it is according to the big ME :D) all this is a consequence of that personal consciousness. Thus, the advocating of formless, no shape....etc has no tru meaning but a definition of as one likes it to show off how great and one is. It is not the true formless that goes beyond. it is about define things according to one's ego.


or in the Yoga Chakra's view, the product of the 3rd chakra instead of the true attainment of opening of the 4th chakra, not to mention it is far away from the crown chakra.

Why is this important? because opening and balance the 4th chakra needs energy or Qi or prana. this is real energy reserve. and that amount of energy reserve influence one's personal consciousness. and that influence of personal consciousness influence one's action and daily life. and it certainly influnce how one handling one's body , mind, and Jing.

while, if, the 4th chakra is not open and balance, one stuck at the third , the second, and the first. it goes like this: my way is the way . I know it all . mine. (3rd). and if that is not satisfied. it becomes --- I am going to get it "my way" It feels great to get what I want... all the animal instinctive desire. (2nd) and if that is not satisfied, then it becomes --- It is a survival out there. I am going to eliminate it because it treatern my survival. I will revenge, I will attack.(1st) Those Anti-Qing lives in this consciousness and they never being free until they get out of this 1st chakra consciousness. Thus, to claim the consciousness or time, space, and energy of who living in the first chakra consciousness is the ultimate doesnt make sense. and it contradicting with the symbolic of Spring time. Spring is about grow. it is atleast about the 4th chakra consciousness where everything is equally and freely grow. it is not about who anti who.


So, with working toward higher and broader personal consciousness until the time one reach non dual. Time, space, and energy will be different stuffs. for as above, the time, space, and energy based on operate in the 1st, second, third, or fourth chakras are all different. Operating in the 1st chakra consciousness with survival mode is not going to see how things can get done with operation in the 5th chakra. the degree of freedom in living in the 3rd consciousness is not going to be the same with living in the 4th consciousness.

Thus, the same set -- SLT. it will be a different thing depend greatly on which level of chakra consciousness one lives in.
And one cant see consciousness. That is the problem where one always think one knows but in fact one not.


In the Appentice, Trump is just playing with everyone's lower 3 chakras consciouness. 1, presenting a position or goal such as a position in his company to trap the ego or indentity or status of the player. whoever Win will be indentify to be the President of his company.
(notice that Trump is the one who control the Identity. his is the God in this game) that is controlling the player's third chakra.
2, reward one with visiting luxury places or seduce one with a possiblility of making lots of money and have a personal Jet plane. That is controlling the player's 2nd chakra consciousness.
3, make one go throught fire and fry pan to compete to win otherwise one will be eliminate. This is controlling other's 1st chakra consciousness. So, what one might seem as a great oppoturnity or achievement or get a greater personal indentity is actually a trap. a trap in the lower three chakra consciousness.
There is no real freedom here because one always control and manupulate by others be it on one's identity, desire, or survival. It is a Game based on Greed where we as human loves.


As for WCK, one can view, the set SLT as the identity consciousness set ,it is about the 3rd chakra consciousness. The CK as the desire animal instint set, it is about the 2nd chakra consciousness. The BJ as the survival consciousness set, it is about the 1st chakra consciousness.

Well, one can keep doing it and fall into the lower 1,2,3 chakra reaction. or someday's realized needs to do away all the sets and step into the freedom, equal, balance, and center which is the 4th Chakra consciouness. as it said --- Strike origine fromt the heart. the heart -- the 4th chakra.

So it time, space, and energy the ultimate?
In Wing Chun Kuen, In martial art, in the Donard Trump's Appentice? Is it or is it not?

Or time, space, and energy is a relative product of personal consciousness.


just some blue sky thoughts. :D:D:D


what do you think?

[old jong]

You are right but we must not forget that after all of this,a punch is just a punch!...Again!...;)
In other words...We can go as high as we want but we must never lose sight of the red light down there!...;)

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
You are right but we must not forget that after all of this,a punch is just a punch!...Again!...;)
In other words...We can go as high as we want but we must never lose sight of the red light down there!...;)



Sure, we all needs to breath otherwise we die
But, is breathing a survival or breathing is breathing? :D

"but we must not forget....." You still cant get away that SURVIVAL mode isnt it? :D:D:D:D




The kuen Kuit said:

Thus, thus ummovable is the real Ying and Yang.
That jewels ummovable thus its application is endless.
Gentlelly subdue the arise within split of an inch.



instead of :

I have to stay survival and paranoid to survive that is the real life.
That survival and paranoid is rush rush thus one always get ahead.
Be Brutal, there is a jungle out there and shoot them with the biggest gun you have in long distance! :D

[old jong]

We all know people who soar so high that they lose sight and even interest in the "normal reality" for lack of a more precice term. Their red is dimmed by their efforts to soar.This is why we see so many "mystics" living besides real living.

Martial arts are a good grounding factor. IMO

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
what do you think?

I think you did a very good job in showing how the 1,2,3 chakras affect our thoughts and training. And how the 4th could affect it as well. I am interested in your thoughts on how the 5th and 6th (especially) affect it. The 7th, not so much as anyone here probably has no need for any of it.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
We all know people who soar so high that they lose sight and even interest in the "normal reality" for lack of a more precice term. Their red is dimmed by their efforts to soar.This is why we see so many "mystics" living besides real living.

Martial arts are a good grounding factor. IMO



" If, on the other hand, you are in a Zen state while in combat, you perceive not the individual attack, but the entire situation.

Your mind and body act as one, bypassing the normal reaction time to automatically perform the necessary defense measure. "----Mas Oyama

I dont think Oyama forget how to grasp his punch :D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I think you did a very good job in showing how the 1,2,3 chakras affect our thoughts and training. And how the 4th could affect it as well. I am interested in your thoughts on how the 5th and 6th (especially) affect it. The 7th, not so much as anyone here probably has no need for any of it.



Thus, I have heard :D and I only heard as much as about 5th. only . cant help about 6th. will tell you later. :D:D:D

when the energy raise above to open up/balance the 4th. compassionate and un-personal arive. dont mean one doesnt has an identity. But it is like a movie star is playing a role. the movie star will not get caught up by the role or the identity.

Then, the open up/balance of the fifth chakra where one with observation capable to naturaly uses others game rules to play and play great. That is the Wisdom level where as Oyama said "you are in a Zen state while in combat, you perceive not the individual attack, but the entire situation." It is not longer "thinking". it is alots about "natural un personal observation"


Until the 5th open/balance and stable. one always fall back to the 3rd and 2nd and 1st. to guard the identity will all means. and the unstable 4th doesnt work well without the 5th and might even hurt one because when one treat others fair and others drop the chakra power in communication.

The feeling at 4th like, you are helping but get accuse. but you continous to help without feeling anything wrong.

But,
The feeling of you trying to be nice but others is not treatern you right is still 3rd.

SLT has to go to 5th and above otherwise trap in brutally figthing and ego defending stage which is 1st, 2nd.

So, the question is does the traing get one up there? However, if one believe a fix Time, space, and energy of some others is the ultimate. then the games is over and all trap in rigid.

Thus, I have heard. Interested to go up there and take a look? :D:D:D


One can be physically strong or etheletics (sp) but if one doesnt show acceptance of alternative. That is a sign for operating in 3rd. the 4th needs both strong physical and energy/prana/qi reserve. it is a different way of living between 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[QUOTE]Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]what do you think?

I think you are wrong.

And I think that the "logic" you are using is inherently flawed.

Your argument was stated as:

time, space, and energy are the products or individual personal consciousness.

Due to individual personal consciousness, Everyone percieve time, space, and energy very differently, thus everyone does SLT in a different way.

One can clearly know time, space, and energy are a product of individual personal consciousness simply by looking at what it means by "money" for oneself. " how everyone percieve it is very different.


Thus, time, space, and energy is not what the Shao Lin core which was called the Immovable heart or the Mas Oyama's Zen attainment---

Let me switch some nouns so we can more easily illustrate how this logic flow makes no sense:



mother, father, and siblings are the products or individual personal consciousness.

Due to individual personal consciousness, Everyone percieve mothers, fathers, and siblings very differently, thus everyone relates to their family in a different way.

One can clearly know mother, father, and siblings are a product of individual personal consciousness simply by looking at what it means by "cheddar cheese" for oneself. " how everyone percieve it is very different.


Thus, mother, father, and siblings is not what the traditional family unit is made of



OK. That's totally faulty logic. If you just wanted to state your opinion, that's fine, just say so. But using faulty logic does not help your point.

And, since we're getting all Zen here... you also said:

once one attach to a fix time, space, and energy view, one got stuck.

But once you get stuck on Mas Oyama's view, you are just as stuck. You are trying to experience someone ELSE's view. Not very here and now.

Spring is about grow. it is atleast about the 4th chakra consciousness where everything is equally and freely grow. it is not about who anti who.


If it's about "grow" then it is about letting go of EVERYTHING, even the 4th chakra consciousness. By definition, simply labeling it "4th consciousness chakra" has trapped its definition, no?

For that matter, the immovable heart is an illusion by having a label too, and so is Wing Chun (as a label). So why go round and round with this again>

Maybe you are a bit too hung up on your perceived definition of "time, space, and energy."

Just some "blue sky thoughts."

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
I think you are wrong.

And I think that the "logic" you are using is inherently flawed.

Your argument was stated as:


Let me switch some nouns so we can more easily illustrate how this logic flow makes no sense:


For that matter, the immovable heart is an illusion by having a label too, and so is Wing Chun (as a label). So why go round and round with this again>

Maybe you are a bit too hung up on your perceived definition of "time, space, and energy."

Just some "blue sky thoughts."

-Levi


You have all the right to express your idea based on you personal consciousness.


is Zen the study of switch nouns and logic?

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
is Zen the study of switch nouns and logic?

I don't recall my message ever saying that. I was pointing out the flaws in your logic for stating your OPINION as if it were an IMMUTABLE FACT.

But how about you tell me? After all, won't it just be "your idea based on you personal consciousness" ??

Besides, this a forum open to the public, where I don't OWE answers to anyone, so I can choose to answer or not. Sound familiar?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
I don't recall my message ever saying that. I was pointing out the flaws in your logic for stating your OPINION as if it were an IMMUTABLE FACT.

But how about you tell me? After all, won't it just be "your idea based on you personal consciousness" ??

Besides, this a forum open to the public, where I don't OWE answers to anyone, so I can choose to answer or not. Sound familiar?



Sound like 3rd chakra speaking :D

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by taltos
I don't recall my message ever saying that. I was pointing out the flaws in your logic for stating your OPINION as if it were an IMMUTABLE FACT.

I didn't get that he was stating his opinion as immutable fact...maybe that's just how YOU are perceving it.

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Sound like 3rd chakra speaking :D

In that case, could you help me out a bit please?

When you ask for other thoughts, and they are shared, is that 3rd Chakra speaking?

When other people on other threads asked you to answer a question and you refused, was that your 3rd Chakra speaking?

You described the 3rd Chakra as:

my way is the way . I know it all . mine.

I never said my way was the way. I never said I know it all.

I am very confused as to how my previous statements fall into 3rd Chakra speaking. Was it not answering you? Was it dissagreeing with you? Could you be so kind as to explain this to me?

Much appreciated.

-Levi

[taltos]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I didn't get that he was stating his opinion as immutable fact...maybe that's just how YOU are perceving it.

Definately possible, as I am human, with all the tendencies to err that comes with it.

Thanks for the reminder! It's always good to humble ourselves a little.

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

isnt it nice and peace to do yoga with the awareness not with the thinker?

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
isnt it nice and peace to do yoga with the awareness not with the thinker?

Is that the 3rd Chakra speaking since you are not answering my question?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
Is that the 3rd Chakra speaking since you are not answering my question?


Does it matter?

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Does it matter?

It certainly does to me, because I am trying to understand what you are saying so that we can have positive and productive communication. I am still confused about your earlier statements, so I am making an effort to understand rather than to make assumptions. I am meeting you halfway by honestly and openly asking for clarification so we can understand each other. Would you be so kind as to meet me half way?

-Levi

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

You know that I respect you, but this chakdra stuff should be strictly for one's use and personal growth and not as a tool to label people. Just straight from my heart. =D

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

You know that I respect you, but this chakdra stuff should be strictly for one's use and personal growth and not as a tool to label people. Just straight from my heart. =D

I agree with Paul. Kundalini is a path of personal development, not a labeling machine.

Also, I believe it to be impossible to identify where a person is, in regards to personal development, from the 'possibly misinterpeted' posts on this forum.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

You know that I respect you, but this chakdra stuff should be strictly for one's use and personal growth and not as a tool to label people. Just straight from my heart. =D



You like to be like Donarld Trump , and set the rule on what should and what should not too? :D

Should I use Donarld Trump for personal growth only?

[PaulH]

When you put people in a category that is untrue based on unverified info, it is wrong and never right! =D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I agree with Paul. Kundalini is a path of personal development, not a labeling machine.

Also, I believe it to be impossible to identify where a person is, in regards to personal development, from the 'possibly misinterpeted' posts on this forum.



great idea.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
When you put people in a category that is untrue based on unverified info, it is wrong and never right! =D


so much judgemental and jumping into conclusion thoughts, but might have been forgotten to read and comprehend what is what carefully.

is that the signature of 3rd chakra domination operation? :D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
It certainly does to me, because I am trying to understand what you are saying so that we can have positive and productive communication. I am still confused about your earlier statements, so I am making an effort to understand rather than to make assumptions. I am meeting you halfway by honestly and openly asking for clarification so we can understand each other. Would you be so kind as to meet me half way?

-Levi


isnt it nice and peace to do yoga with the awareness not with the thinker?

[PaulH]

"is that the signature of 3rd chakra domination operation?"

All in the fulness of time! Fasten your seatbelt! =O

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
is that the signature of 3rd chakra domination operation? :D


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
isnt it nice and peace to do yoga with the awareness not with the thinker?

So are you deciding NOT to answer my question? Because if that's the case, there are much better (and more respectful and direct) ways of stating that. Such as "I am not going to answer that question."

But what the heck, I'll be a sport.


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
is that the signature of 3rd chakra domination operation? :D

In my opinion based on my personal experience, No. It's not at all.


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
isnt it nice and peace to do yoga with the awareness not with the thinker?

In my opinion based on my personal experience, No. It's not at all. Nice is a descriptive term in English. Peace is a noun in English that refers to a state of being. Yoga is a noun in English referring to a system of exercise and whole mind/body/spirit development. Awareness is a noun in English that refers to a state of being. Thinker is a noun in English referring to the subject of an action (i.e., the person who is thinking).

Your sentence makes no sense at all.

But I DO think that it is nice and peaceFUL to practive Yoga while being AWARE of my body/mind/spirit and refraining from letting distractive THOUGHTS get in the way.

There.

Now that I've answered your question, will you answer mine, or continue this dance around the question?

-Levi

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

Okay, no hard feeling between friends, huh? It's all just a big colossal misunderstanding! Ha! Ha! I can't speak for others but for the record, I understand perfectly your sentence meaning with all those funny grammar mistakes and spellings. =D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

Okay, no hard feeling between friends, huh? It's all just a big colossal misunderstanding! Ha! Ha! I can't speak for others but for the record, I understand perfectly your sentence meaning with all those funny grammar mistakes and spellings. =D


Paul,

I dont see any issue at all. I am not expecting too many people is going to know what I am talking about it. Comunication is not an easy process.

You know, There is no mysterious about Chakra system. IT is a tool not some voodo stuffs or some myth to bs the girl friends to show off, it can be analogy to the gear box of the car. it doesnt drive a car but it drives a human.

To tell any one including my self that one is running in the 3rd Chakra conscious thinking, that is analogy to telling others or myself that one is driving the car with 3rd gear. That is an indication of a state or a state might be. definately is not about labeling.

That has to be carefull. because as I mention before in other post, one is not one's thought. one's thought can be changed. Thought can be selected or shift gear. state of Conscious can be shift too.

The characteristic about running in 3rd Chakra is that one often doesnt see what is going on, but totally rely on the SELF or Thinker to keep speculate and keep generating thoughts and thoughts without stopping and take all the intepolating or extepolating thoughts which one generates as real. where do you think those thoughts lead to fear is from? That is the thoughts generated in the 3rd chakra "drive" one to keep shifting "gear" and end up in 1st Chakra where survival and fear all sort of things arise. That is a very different type of consciousness compare with the ZEn where one lives in this instant or living in Now as tolie wrote in his book.


So, running with 3rd Chakra strong is about lossing of Awareness. The more one get into arguement vesus arguement. The further one drift. and that will lead to a shift gear down to 2nd chakra-- to fight....ect.



Why dont I answer others questions when others are in the 3rd Chakra mode? Because there is no point to argue or discuss when others is spiraling in the 3rd Chakra consciousness thinking where, to be right, to be winning is the bottom line? Have you see anyone argue with heat and have a clear mind? There is no reason to argue and shift gear to the 2nd chakra behavior of fighting, and getting nasty to get the pleasure of feeling one is winning. That is not going to solve a thing. people often did this type of things in forum switch to thier forum or other forum to get even feeding one's 2nd and 3rd chakras.



So, how to get up to 4th Chakra consciousness and be able to see oneself trapping in the 3rd "Gear"? Practice of awareness and silence and yoga will get there. quite down the mind or thinker from the spiralling thoughts flow will get one there. Not reasoning, definately not. Try to reason next time you are in heat or feeling scare. see it goes up or going down to get more heat and more scare?

Since Shifting "gear" is not about reasoning or arguement. There is no correct answer in the realm of" thought". that is because the "answer" is not in the same realm of 3rd chakra consciousness thought but in the realm of action. reasoning and reasoning with word is similar to put the car in the parking and step on the gas is not going to get anywhere but generate noise and smoke and wasting gas (gas is expensive this day :D) . one simply cannot describe what is a gear box for others who have not see one and argue for argue shake.


Since this is a topic about time, space, and energy, as I mention above, unless one knows how to shift the chakra consciousness similar to the gear of one's car, one is not going to understand what is going on. Sure, one can always drive in the 3rd Gear or 2nd Gear, and think that is it--- the time, space, and energy. But, that is not it and the big issue is one doesnt know how to shift gear. and everyone can learn how to shift gear if one is not rigidly believe in there is only one gear in the gear box and that is the ultimate.

Zen is to understand to know to master the different gear of the gear box, be able to shift as needed and be able to not attached to any one. It has nothing to do with Gramma at all and I am not a English major and dont intent to. To be totally GRAMATICALLY CORRECT if you like I can post in classical Chinese and tough luck for you who dont know Classical Chinese. :D

There is a Set which some called LESS Thoughts or Siu Niem Tau, that is to learn to shift that consciousness gear. not creat ten thousand reasons and theories but still park in the garage and step on gas. Otherwise, one is not be able to know how to deal with pressure.


Just some blue sky opinion. ofcorse I can be dead wrong, but what if I am right? Dont take me that serious. :D

PS. I have no intent to control which chakra conscious you would like to drive in. Free world, Free Will. :D

As the old Zen saying,
Everything is a test, do you recognized it? if not, one has to start all over. :D:D:D:D

watch your gear box :D
anyone wants to correct my english gramma, thanks and appreciated. I can learn something always.

[taltos]

I know you were talking to Paul, and not responding to me, but...


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Why dont I answer others questions when others are in the 3rd Chakra mode? Because there is no point to argue or discuss when others is spiraling in the 3rd Chakra consciousness thinking where, to be right, to be winning is the bottom line?

OK. Since I wasn't arguing with you, and we weren't discussing (because you refuse to participate), and I don't care if I am right or I am winning (since I am in it for the exchange of information), that doesn't apply to me. So could you answer my question please?

Is it possible that you are yourself are "spiraling in the 3rd Chakra consciousness thinking where, to be right, to be winning is the bottom line"??

Just a thought.

-Levi

[anerlich]

what do you think?

That this was all said far better by Robert Anton Wilson in "Prometheus Rising".

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
I know you were talking to Paul, and not responding to me, but...



OK. Since I wasn't arguing with you, and we weren't discussing (because you refuse to participate), and I don't care if I am right or I am winning (since I am in it for the exchange of information), that doesn't apply to me. So could you answer my question please?

Is it possible that you are yourself are "spiraling in the 3rd Chakra consciousness thinking where, to be right, to be winning is the bottom line"??

Just a thought.

-Levi


Everything is possible since there is more then one "Time, space, and energy " state produced by different level/state of personal consciousness in every human. similar to the different gears of the car.

And no one claim to be A Buddha in Nirvana or perfect enlightement.


However, the Awareness disregard of how strong or how weak it is always exists independently beyond the variation of different " time, space, and energy" produced by different level/state of personal consciousness.

IE. one can be awaken or be slept or be in dream state; and, disregards of what is the personal consciousness or " time, space, and energy state " Awareness is always there.

This is something beyond and independent of the existance of any states of "time, space, and energy."


Thus, the Awareness, the Unmoveable heart, Non dual, Buddha nature, or Living in Now is beyond the " time, space, and energy. " IT still exists even after eliminating of differents states/level of " time, space, and energy" or personal consciousness states. Furthermore, it even exist beyond the "I" such as when one is in a dream state when one forgets one's daily identity one still Aware.

Thus, "Time, Space, and Energy " is not it. It never is.

Not to mention, when one talks about "time, space, and energy" on either talk about a model, past incident, or projection of future in the "time, space, and Energy" model. "time, space, and Energy " never is this instant or Living in Now. But one doesnt live in the past or future or living according to a Box fix model. no matter how great is the model of the past or future.
As it said --- one never steps on the same flowing water twice.

Awareness on the other hand is Living in NOW. One doesnt have to model anything. Awareness supports one's living independent of time, space, energy, states of consciousness.........



Thus, IMHO, The teaching based on "Time, space, and Energy " is not the Teaching of Zen or Buddha Nature or unmoveable heart of Shao Lin.


is Shao Lin martial art teaching about to live in the past , in the future, in some models based on some one's personal consciousness state which is very very very not likely to be reproducible, or it teaches one how to live in NOW with AWARENESS or Mindfull?


Buddhism has another name in China. That is called the Teaching/school of AWARENESS.





Thus, I have heard.

[taltos]

Awesome! Thank you Hendrick. Now we're getting somewhere.

I can now see what you arte using as your definitions, and why you have the conclusions you do. I use a different set of definitions, and have a different conclusion, but we're all human, so no worries there. All is well.

I agree that each person has their own set of perceptions.

What I am wondering about now is the things that do not change. Are you thinking that time, space, and energy are not constants?

I can see that as we approach the speed of light, time is no longer a constant.

I can see that as we approach objects of incredible mass and gravity, space is no longer a constant.

I can see that on a different planet, with different sets of rules, or if we were to have a different skeletal structure, then the energy required for different structures would no longer be a constant.

However, since we are all anatomically the same in terms of our human form, and we all live on earth and move at relatively low speeds (the fastest human moving at .000003% of the speed of light), is it possible to use these three external, situationally constant mediums as a shared litmus between two individuals in conflict?

Thank you, Hendrick, for making the effort to meet me half way. I hope we can share information without argueing and without "preaching" at each other. That would be MUCH cool.

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos


Now we're getting somewhere.


1,
What I am wondering about now is the things that do not change. Are you thinking that time, space, and energy are not constants?

I can see that as we approach the speed of light, time is no longer a constant.

I can see that as we approach objects of incredible mass and gravity, space is no longer a constant.

I can see that on a different planet, with different sets of rules, or if we were to have a different skeletal structure, then the energy required for different structures would no longer be a constant.


However, since we are all anatomically the same in terms of our human form, and we all live on earth and move at relatively low speeds (the fastest human moving at .000003% of the speed of light), is it possible to use these three external, situationally constant mediums as a shared litmus between two individuals in conflict?


2,
Thank you, Hendrick, for making the effort to meet me half way. I hope we can share information without argueing and without "preaching" at each other. That would be MUCH cool.

-Levi


1, That is still thoughts products depend on a specific personal consciousness. one must find the "gear box" , "shift gear" , and see for oneself what is it . One doesnt think. One "aware and know".

Thus, I have heard, if one has a true Chan lineage where generation of the practitioners of the lineage had indeed achieve satori and seal with the mind seal of the buddha.

one can sit in meditation guide by the lineage teaching or vehicle to meet non dual and Aware. This is not the same as keep thinking which is just thinking.

As the Chan master said, those are thinking Zen, talking Zen. Those are Not Zen at all. those Zen doesnt even work while one is sleeping and dreaming.

Try to observe how is one's talking Zen, thinking Zen, consciousness Zen hold up when one is dozing off and carry away by the dream.


So the bottom line of either is there any Chan or Zen or Shao Lin or Emei. The key is -- is there a lineage teaching or vehicle and mind seal. If there is then one can check in the Chan Lineage record that who has used what "vehicle" to get enlightent?

One cannot just read a book or qoute books or mix Daoism or etc to claim it is Chan. The lineage transmission of Chan is still alive today and very clear on the "vehicle".

Until one has the "vehicle" transmitted, "visited" the Non dual. even with just a glims and not crystallized the attainment yet. The unmoveable heart is the unmoveable heart. Thinker is thinker. One can spot a different clearlly without gray area.


2, I did nothing different. I just communicate. the rest is upto others.


There is no need to get some where. it is always NO-W-Here.

[PaulH]

"No w here" This must be the creative drive of your 4th Chakra domination operation! Good lucid explanation. I think I understand what I think you think! Do you think you know what I think? =D

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by PaulH
"No w here" This must be the creative drive of your 4th Chakra domination operation! Good lucid explanation. I think I understand what I think you think! Do you think you know what I think? =D


1, 4th chakra is not about creativity. That has to be the 6th Chakra.

2, you need to get a psychic or a psychologist to read mind to do those investigation on those "Understand what I think you think stuff" and I am not one. :D

[canglong]

time, space, and energy --- is it or is it not?















































































































When ever it takes someone this much space to post their theory the problems have already begun too little focus of energy to be coherent and a big waste of others time.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by canglong



When ever it takes someone this much space to post their theory the problems have already begun too little focus of energy to be coherent and a big waste of others time.


SPIRAL DYNAMICS AND THE WAVES OF EXISTENCE ( A Wave = time, Space, and Energy)

type 2. Purple: Magical-Animistic . Thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes . The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links. Sounds "holistic" but is actually atomistic: "there is a name for each bend in the river but no name for the river."

Where seen: Belief in voodoo-like curses, blood oaths, ancient grudges, good luck charms, family rituals, magical ethnic beliefs and superstitions; strong in Third-World settings, gangs, athletic teams, and corporate "tribes." 10% of the population, 1% of the power.




type 7. Yellow: Integrative . Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies [holarchies], systems, and forms. Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority. Differences and pluralities can be integrated into interdependent, natural flows. Egalitarianism is complemented with natural degrees of ranking and excellence. Knowledge and competency should supersede power, status, or group sensitivity. The prevailing world order is the result of the existence of different levels of reality (memes) and the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the dynamic spiral. Good governance facilitates the emergence of entities through the levels of increasing complexity (nested hierarchy). 1% of the population, 5% of the power





[Based on extensive research begun by Clare Graves, Spiral Dynamics (developed by Don Beck and Christopher Cowan).

"Spiral Dynamics is a bio-psycho-social-spiritual framework for understanding human development and human systems. It unveils the hidden codes and dynamic, spiral forces that shape human nature, create global diversities, and drive social change. ]

[yellowpikachu]

Time, Space, and Energy = Wave



http://www.wie.org/_flash/sd.asp

click on "explore the spiral" to explore different waves types.



one can link the 1st Chakra personal consciousness to the

Beige Meme or Type 1, survivalistics meme/wave in the spiral dynamics. co-incident?

[yellowpikachu]

"For the ultimate or non-dual paths, the primary reorientation is take up a spiritual practice. And learn to cultivate that awareness which is not a change of state. Which is ever-present noticing, through all changes of state, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep.

There is that timeless, unchanging, presence, that is your actual birthright and your original face.

The only way you can recognize that, again, because it's so utterly, utterly, simple, the only way you can recognize it is to exhaust all of your other options, until literally it is the only thing left staring you in the face, and then you go, 'Wow, that's embarrassing. I've only been looking at it for fifteen billion years now and I didn't quite recognize it.'

Take up a spiritual practice. It can be Vipassana, Zen, centering prayer, yoga ... the shamanic material will work but you really have to make sure you don't just get caught up in phenomenal passing states... A lot of nature mystics and shamanic states come and they go. That's not the ever-present self. The ever-present self does not come, and it does not go. It's fully present right now, and it witnesses these states that come and go.

If you just merely get it associated with phenomenal states, that's fine, but it's not realization. ...

You can do it through shamanic or nature mysticism but you have to

be careful not to merely confuse some gross change in state with the unborn or the ever-present. --------- Ken Wilber

[yellowpikachu]

From Yoga Chakra system, to Spiral Dynamics study, To Ken Wilber's experience. From East to the West, from past to present, it is pretty clear now.

What the Original face or Immoveable Heart of Shao Lin or Non-dual is not about Time, Space, and Energy. which is not a particular state or a change of state but that timeless, unchanging, presence.




From SLT to Chi Sau. , all based on that AWARENESS that timeless, unchanging, presence.

As it said : Kuen Yao Sum Faat. Fist origine from that Awareness

Sum is the immoveable heart -- original face.


just some thought.

[canglong]

Whatever you say hendrik it make little sense but if you said it then it must be right. Will you be teaching CK and BJ long distance as well.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by canglong
Whatever you say hendrik it make little sense but if you said it then it must be right.

Will you be teaching CK and BJ long distance as well.



1, I present what I know not much mot less.
You are the one said " it must be right. "



2, Thus, I have heard,
Wong Wah Boh was the one who slipt one long Siu Line Tau set into three sets?

If that is true, then, The Guy you want to ask is Wong, not me. That is forsure. :D

[canglong]

I present what I know not much mot less. If it's only something you heard as gossip then how is it something you know it's just something you heard and as many times as you have stated that phrase you haven't even named a source which in itself makes the statements even less credible.


Thus, I have heard,
Wong Wah Boh was the one who slipt one long Siu Line Tau set into three sets? Thus I heard without SLT/CK/BJ no wing chun. Wong Wa Bo was right as well.

[Savi]

What the Original face or Immoveable Heart of Shao Lin or Non-dual is not about Time, Space, and Energy. which is not a particular state or a change of state but that timeless, unchanging, presence.

I'm still waiting for the day Yellowpikachu will NOT be able to make a point about what WC is at the expense of HFY's history and science and philosophy - EVER.

Its position: "Time, space, energy (and energy) is not Wing Chun."

Yellowpikachu's position is as empty as its understanding of HFY.

FWIW, HFY's philosophy is also about awareness... it's called Tin Yan Dei Saam Mo Kiu... you probably missed that whole chapter from MKF (beginning on pg 49), or refuse to acknowledge it.

What is the definition of unlimited, if limited does not exist?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Savi
I'm still waiting for the day Yellowpikachu will NOT be able to make a point about what WC is at the expense of HFY's history and science and philosophy - EVER.

Its position: "Time, space, energy (and energy) is not Wing Chun."

Yellowpikachu's position is as empty as its understanding of HFY.

FWIW, HFY's philosophy is also about awareness... it's called Tin Yan Dei Saam Mo Kiu... you probably missed that whole chapter from MKF (beginning on pg 49), or refuse to acknowledge it.

What is the definition of unlimited, if limited does not exist?




Very Strange!

when is Time, space, Energy, States, Chan, consciousness, chakras, integration of Ken Wilber belongs to you so no one should even bring it up?

What is Ken Wilber's work got to do with your expense?

Ken is very well known in Philosophy, spiritual practice, and the model of integration in today's world. Ken is one of the Pioner in this field. You think you are as knowledgeble as Ken Wilber when it comes to Chan, Time, Space, Energy, States, Consciousness, Chakras......?


PS.
It will be highly apprecaited that here on you dont bring up your philosophy or history or MKF to the yellowpikachu's post EVER. In Ken's work, The Yellowpikachu interested in. In yours , the Yellowpikachu is not interested in yours.

BTW, you dont own WCK and my lineage has nothing to do with yours. so, please dont bring up yours as THE reference of ALL WCK whenever other post and discuss thier view.

if You dont like what others discuss or get defensive due to your own reason, simply ignore the posts.

Appreciated and
Thanks!

[Savi]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Very Strange!

when is Time, space, Energy, States, Chan, consciousness, chakras, integration of Ken Wilber belongs to you so no one should even bring it up? Never said it was mine. I'm not that arrogant to even do such a thing. FWIW, it's not Ken's either. People do not own universal laws.


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
What is Ken Wilber's work got to do with your expense? Nothing with my expense. Why are you asking?


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Ken is very well known in Philosophy, spiritual practice, and the model of integration in today's world. Ken is one of the Pioner in this field. You think you are as knowledgeble as Ken Wilber when it comes to Chan, Time, Space, Energy, States, Consciousness, Chakras......? Probably not. So, what's your point? I have nothing against him.


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
It will be highly apprecaited that here on you dont bring up your philosophy or history or MKF to the yellowpikachu's post EVER. In Ken's work, The Yellowpikachu interested in. In yours , the Yellowpikachu is not interested in yours. Wa Wa Wa... so defensive! And, as it is said so many times because we tend to forget in this place: it's a public forum (and it doesn't belong to yellowpikachu). Only Sandman can prevent me from engaging on this forum. Got a problem? There is an ignore list. One thing you do that I think is hilarious is refer to yourself in the third person... or is it the fifth person... hmm, there's "No Hendrik" "Hendrik" "Phenix" "yellowpikachu" and counting...

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
BTW, you dont own WCK and my lineage has nothing to do with yours. so, please dont bring up yours as THE reference of ALL WCK whenever other post and discuss thier view. HA! Never said I owned anything Sherlock. You should take your own advice:

"BTW, you dont own WCK and my lineage has nothing to do with yours. so, please dont bring up yours as THE reference of ALL WCK whenever other post and discuss thier view."

Right back at you.


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
if You dont like what others discuss or get defensive due to your own reason, simply ignore the posts.

Appreciated and
Thanks! HA HA HA HAH! Take your own advice.

Wandering: Fau Kiu
Back to the topic, there is no acknowledgment that Time Space and Energy exist when you are still wandering in your own existence (no self). Rejection of reality (or aspects of it) can be a reflection of attachment or fear of feeling threatened...

Aware: Saan Kiu
One can actually acknowledge that Time Space and Energy exists once one has begun to have some sense of self. Never in this state of consciousness and body karma can all three factors be under complete control by the person; only one or two of the three... To escape this state of existence, one has to understand limitation, the methods, the models, and let them go...

Focused: Weng Kiu
It is just a punch... there is no punch... it is just a punch...

:)

TSE is not a label that belongs to anyone. So the question of Wing Chun being about TSE or not is stupid. Wait, I take that back... "there are no stupid questions, only stupid people."

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Savi
I'm still waiting for the day Yellowpikachu will NOT be able to make a point about what WC is at the expense of HFY's history and science and philosophy - EVER.




Who is the one who think everyone is talking about his stuffs? didnt he know its a public forum? take your own advise SAVI .

-------------Wa Wa Wa... so defensive! And, as it is said so many times because we tend to forget in this place: it's a public forum (and it doesn't belong to ..). Only Sandman can prevent me from engaging on this forum. Got a problem? There is an ignore list. -----SAVI

[canglong]

Who is the one who think everyone is talking about his stuffs? didnt he know its a public forum? You are rather transparent with respect to your post, chaning your name, and posting questions without answers, and hiding behind a public forum to inundate people with your theories of what you heard having no experience to rely upon you are unable to publish any thing substantial for the Martial arts world you day dream and post and day dream and post some more and think of what might have been. Don't take my word for it go to another forum where you have spewed your venom and mention the name hendrik santo and see how far that gets you hahahahahahaha.

[anerlich]

Wa Wa Wa... so defensive! And, as it is said so many times because we tend to forget in this place: it's a public forum (and it doesn't belong to yellowpikachu). Only Sandman can prevent me from engaging on this forum. Got a problem? There is an ignore list.

You should take *your* own advice, junior.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by canglong
You are rather transparent with respect to your post, chaning your name, and posting questions without answers, and hiding behind a public forum to inundate people with your theories of what you heard having no experience to rely upon you are unable to publish any thing substantial for the Martial arts world you day dream and post and day dream and post some more and think of what might have been. Don't take my word for it go to another forum where you have spewed your venom and mention the name hendrik santo and see how far that gets you hahahahahahaha.


May the Buddha save you, for you dont know what you are talking about driven by a deluded mind, running wild from 3rd to 1st chakra:D

May you take your brother SAVI's advise.

quote:
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Wa Wa Wa... so defensive! And, as it is said so many times because we tend to forget in this place: it's a public forum (and it doesn't belong to yellowpikachu). Only Sandman can prevent me from engaging on this forum. Got a problem? There is an ignore list.
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