What is kung?

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

John Wang wrote in EF forum:
(giving credit where credit is due, unlike some people :rolleyes: .)

- "Lien Chuan Bo Lien Kung, Dao Lou Yi Chan Kuo - If you practice forms only without practicing "Kung" then you will have nothing left when you get old".

- "Chuan Bo Da Kung - Forms cannot match with "Kung"".

According to these 2 old saying, there is no "Kung" in the forms. Now the question is:

- Why forms don't go with old age?
- Why "Kung" is not in the form?
- What is "Kung"?
- How to get "Kung"?

[David Jamieson]

work/strength/power.

in context to the above post, I would go with "power" as the meaning of "kung".

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

How do you get it/achieve it?

http://members.lycos.co.uk/choileefut/nsfs.htm

Interesting article.

[WanderingMonk]

how about lifting weights?

Or you should make one of those pulley weights thing that's in Master Wang's video and use that every day. Shooter will suggest to dig a hole in the ground and then fill it back up. repeat

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

The definition of kung from www.chinalanguage.com

is

1] [n] achievement; merit; accomplishment; good result; exploit [2] usefulness; effectiveness [3] [n] function [4] work (physics)

It's not quite power or strength.


The first part of the character means:

[1] [n] labor; work [2] [n] worker; laborer [3] [n] shift; time used in doing a piece of work [4] [n] day's work [5] [n] engineering or building project [6] [n] defense work [7] fine; delicate [8] [v] be skilled in

The second part of the character means:

Strength, Force


So if you could come up with a general definition it would be something like:

"Achieved Strength" or "Refined Strength"

So if you have the form and technique but you have not refined the strength to back it up then your form is nothing.

[omarthefish]

Kung is in the Baji form....or at least in the one I train. Heck...it's practically the main thing I get out of the form.

But then again...I still haven't seen anyone else train it in the way I do. Most people I know seem to use the form a bit differently and use 2 man drills for kung.

[SPJ]

Kung or Gong is difficult to explain.

Every school has its basic skill practice (Ji Ben Gong).

For Tai Ji;

The basic skills or Gong Fa.

1) Zhuang Gong. Standing in posture or steps.

2) Jin Gong. Chan Si Jin (silk reeling) and 8 Jin's (Ba Men Jin Fa).

These are the basic skills. If you master the basic skills or Ji Beng Gong, then and

Only then, the study of the form is necessary.

Gong Fa is something you do every day. The proficiency of Gong Fa will make the moves in the form work.

If you practice form with Fa Jin, it is called Jin Jia or frame.

Chen Tai Ji Er Lu or Pao Zwei.

Thunder form or Fu Lei Jia also has Jin expression or release.

Chen Tai Ji Yi Lu is consisted of large movements or circles. There is hardness in the gentleness. The focus is to be soft and continuous. Or Ruo Ruan Gong.

Er Lu is hard or Ying Gong. However, there is also gentleness in them.

Kang Zhong You Ruo. Ruo Zhong You Kang.

If you are external or Wai Jia, then yes the bag works to assist your drills of strikes and throws are your Gong practices.

If you do not practice Gong Fa, your moves are flower fists and silky legs (Hua Quan Xio Tui) and only good for shows or performance.

Thus the saying;

Lein Quan Bu Lein Gong Dao Lau Yi Zhang Kong.

Practice forms or moves without practicing Gong Fa. Everything is in vain and empty.

:)

[Shaolinlueb]

kung is what i am..... oh wqait thats hung. sorry ive been drinking too much tonight,

[Royal Dragon]

Kung = Skill

If you do the form, but never develope the skill to USE the form, in old age you will not be able to fight as the strength the form developes will have diminished. Only by developng the combat skill or "Kung" of the form will you be able to actually use it when you are old and physically weak.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

So does doing form develop kung? Or how else do you get it?

[omarthefish]

It CAN but I think typically doesn't.

If doing your form once involves fa jin 30 or more times then yes....I'd say it develops gong. If it's just a string of techniques like a big catelogue then no.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

Originally posted by omarthefish
It CAN but I think typically doesn't.

If doing your form once involves fa jin 30 or more times then yes....I'd say it develops gong. If it's just a string of techniques like a big catelogue then no.

So you think the form is unimportant then?

So do you think Zhan Zhang, San Ti is form?

[_William_]

I think you're overcomplicating things.

Kung simply means "Skill" or "accomplishment". You develop skill through steady and correct practice.

[Royal Dragon]

Just reciteing the forms sequence will not build skill (Kung). You must take it apart, drill each technique or series of techniques against willing and resisting partners. To truely learn the form and bennifit from it. If you don't, you will have no "Kung"

Too many people learn the sequence of the form, but never develop any skill with it's content. They think the sequence is learning the form, when it it really just the first page of an entire novel. Once you know the forms sequence, then you must learn how each and every technique is used in combat, and BE ABLE to use it in combat yourself. THAT is what learning a form really is. If you do THAT, then you have Kung.

[SPJ]

Well said.

:)