Gettin' My Piece Of The Lama Pai

[lamakwoklee]

I'd like to thank all of you who've given me helpful suggestions in my pursuit of Hop Gar / Lama Pai / Pak Hok exercises and forms. I've failed to achieve the result I was after, so I'm making other plans to reach the goal.

[cerebus]

lamakwoklee, check your PMs.

[diego]

Originally posted by cerebus
lamakwoklee, check your PMs.

Cerebus clear outyour PMs:)

sent you a reply but no go

Is this the wong and caputo book you mentioned...it says northern crane, is that the same as tibetan?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3B1QVMBW7YVOQ/103-0715274-6085457?_encoding=UTF8&display=public&page=8

The White crane kung-fu style =: [Pai ho kung fu men]
Edition: Paperback
Availability: This item is currently unavailable.


1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:

Unusual Book on White Crane Kung Fu!!!, December 21, 2002
"White Crane Kung Fu Vol. 1: History & Forms" is another good Koinonia Productions book. You won't see a pretty glossy cover or spectacular photographs in this book...but you will learn plenty about the White crane style. Written by Ralph Caputo and James I Wong, This volume includes the White Crane school Plum Blossom Boxing form (Pai Hao Hsiao Mei Hua Chuan), and a condensed version of this form as well (different from plum boxing form in the Great Sage Monkey book). There is a history specific to NORTHERN white crane, which stands in contrast to the great focus placed upon Fujian (southern) crane boxing schools by Okinawa karate practitioners of late. As far as I have been able to ascertain, this is the only book on Northern White crane out there in English--this one. James I Wong's other books are recommended, and most can be obtained for about 10 clams or so from Leo Fong's private publishing company, Koinonia Productions. And in case you're wondering, there was only one volume in this series. Maybe Mr. Wong or his successor will grace us with more in the future? Happy Reading!

[lkfmdc]

Whatever is in that book, I can safely say it is NOT Tibetan White Crane....

[cerebus]

Oops! Sorry. The box should be accepting mail now.

[cerebus]

Hello Sifu Ross. What can you tell me about the contents of that book?
Though the reviewer referred to it as "Northern" it was my understanding that the forms contained were of Tibetan White Crane (the reviewer might have called it "Northern" because the techniques are primarily long arm). I believe the book contains both the traditional and modified versions of the Plum Blossom fist set. I've been trying to get a copy for awhile now to see for myself, but it's almost impossible to obtain.

[lkfmdc]

I saw the book years ago, so it's a bit fuzzy, but as there are so few Tibetan martial arts books, I know which ones there are and which ones try to "pass"

the history seemed very mangled, and the form to me seemed long fist with some "cute" crane like things thrown in to make it a "crane book"

ie, high kicks, sweeps, straight punches, not arm swings, not 7 star foot patterns, not Tibetan

[cerebus]

Okay, thanks. For some reason, it sells for crazy prices these days (only copy I could find for sale was $125!!!). If I can get it for a cheap price, I will (out of curiosity) but I'm not going to spend any real money for it. Later.

[David Jamieson]

but as there are so few Tibetan martial arts books

well that makes sense seeing as there really aren't any tibetan martial arts to speak of.

[Palmer]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
well that makes sense seeing as there really aren't any tibetan martial arts to speak of.

So what do you consider Lama Pai, Hop Gar and TWC Kung Lek? Chinese arts? Are you saying that you do not believe that they originate from a lineage that started with Tibetan priests?

[lkfmdc]

Kung Lek is both right and wrong....

There is definite Tibetan influence in all Lion's Roar martial art, but there is also Chinese influence.

Technically speaking, Lion's Roar originated in what is now Qinghai province, China. When it was created, that province didn't exist as such, it was part of the "Tibetan Administrative Zone" the dynasty had created.

Also, the founder was ethnically Chinese

[diego]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Kung Lek is both right and wrong....

There is definite Tibetan influence in all Lion's Roar martial art, but there is also Chinese influence.

Technically speaking, Lion's Roar originated in what is now Qinghai province, China. When it was created, that province didn't exist as such, it was part of the "Tibetan Administrative Zone" the dynasty had created.

Also, the founder was ethnically Chinese

which "dynasty" created, the ching or?

is there a northern crane style?.

[Palmer]

I never completly know what to believe when reading the history but what I had read mentioned names like Dai-Dot a lama priest during the Ming dynasty who was said to observe theCrane and Ape. Then a temple Ting-Juck-Lui-Yam that had another Lama priest called Kay-Lam-Buddha had taught it supposevely.
But more importantly for me I believe there is a distinction with these three arts or the Lama arts. In learning the Hop-Gar I had learned principles that I had not seen in other CMA I have studied. Whether historically it is or isnt something may be the case but I believe they have there place as a fairly unique branch of ma in many ways.

[lamakwoklee]

I'm amazed at the number of board members who're skilled in Hop gar, Lama Pai, and TWC. It's frustrating that the only way for me to recieve instruction in these arts is uproot and move where the teachers are.

[David Jamieson]

It's frustrating that the only way for me to recieve instruction in these arts is uproot and move where the teachers are.

Um, yes, if you want to learn something, generally you would go to the teacher. Unless of course you're filthy rich and can afford to bring the teacher to you.

My personal spin on the Tibetaness of Lions Roar/ TWC/ HopGar et al is that it was a political move to work towards cultural inclusion of the disputed area.

[lamakwoklee]

Disheartening. I don't believe for a moment that you can't learn from media (books, training notes, vcd's) that contain clear instruction and technique. It's really not hard. Just point the digital video camera at yourself and then send me a private message. Who do I have to do to get a little action here? Do I have to put on some black pyjamas and saw off an infidels head to get a couple of CD's of Lama or Pak Hok forms? Don't be stingy baby. :D

[lamakwoklee]

It seems the only way to get a response to a request is to turn this thread into flame bait. I'm sorry but I'm bored with that. I'd much rather have some one private message me with a positive response, than engage in "keyboard kung fu".

[ngokfei]

hey why don't you just pay one of the Lama/hopga/white crane teachers to come to you.

Seems you want alot for nothing.

just what it seems fromr eading your posts.

If your serious then save your $$$

[lamakwoklee]

ngokfei, I thank you for the respectful tone of your post. Let me respond. The master's not who my posts are aimed at. Rather my posts are aimed at the guy who's studied for 5 or 6 years, and moved on. I've spoken with Lama and Pak Hok stylists who've burned CD's as "cheats". What I'm writing is why not burn a copy for me? You've read my posts, so you know that I'm willing to help with any cost as far as mailing and time. This is the ordinary thing to do.

[MonkeyBoy]

Well ngokfei is right, you would have a better result if you sponsored and taped a seminar for someone like Sifu Ross. Then "cheat discs" would serve to both show you a form and remind you of it's lessons.

Approach a Lama Sifu, ask what his requirements for a seminar are, find an appropriate venue and drum up some interest. If you can't rent space at a local Kwoon or Dojo, it's not a problem. I have seen successful seminars held in dance schools, bingo halls, restaurants, church basements and temples.

It does take some work and front money. If that's a problem you might want to pitch the idea of a seminar or a demo to a third party. You might be able to get the local college, Boys Club, Boy Scouts or Y.M.C.A. to sponsor an event like that.

Good luck getting those discs just the same.

[lamakwoklee]

Thank's MonkeyBoy. The solution that you and ngokfei suggest to me is very helpful, if expensive. It would be a good goal to aim for. I guess that's a more usual way of doing it. In the end that may be the only option. I'll look at it carefully, though my original offer is still open to any and all, from Kamloops to Kuala Lampur. PM me for details.

[lamakwoklee]

I've thought seriously about sponsoring a seminar. I think that at this time, and in this city the costs outweigh the benefits. To say I should pay an instructor to come to me, is like saying,"I need a car to get back and forth to school. I'll buy a HUMMER!"

What I want has already been created. There is no need to host a seminar to recreate what already exits. Don't understand me too fast! I'm not saying the seminar"s a bad idea. It's the right idea, simply at the wrong time for me.

The original idea of this thread is the most logical route. Hop Gar/ Lama/Pak Hok stylists. If you're in Vancouver, San Francisco, or Singapore; reading this thread take the CD you burned of yourself performing Luk Lik Kuen, or Fei Hok Sau, etc. burn another, and Private Message me.

[buddhapalm]

Kung Fu is paid in intense blood, intense sweat, intense time, intense loyalty, and sometimes intense tears. Would I give away for free something so valuable to anyone who asked for it on the net. Everything has its cost, to assume it will come free will turn off any master who has suffered to the bone gaining his knowledge.
Follow a master and do so with loyalty, respect and trustworthyness and he will teach you, or all you will get on a vcd will be chopped up jokes of forms etc. There are no shortcuts. I moved from UK to USA just to learn when I was 18. It is we who are looking to benefit, so it is us who will find and follow the teacher. The teachers have no incentive to give out to just anyone. They screen and select the most worthy candidates even in their own class, so dont think there are any long distance short cuts.
By the way I dont practice Lama Pai. Good luck.

Buddhapalm

[lamakwoklee]

Buddhapalm, you seem a worthy man. You have my respect. I'd only point out to you, that my posts are not for the master, and not for the sifu. I ask the mid-level student who may've moved to another system, stopped training, (or just run out of money).

I've never asked anybody to give anything away. Up front I say if you've got CDs, drawn forms, excercises, training notes,etc. for Hop Gar, Lama Pai, Pak Hok, PM me to make arrangements. Far from being sacrilegious, this is the normal thing to do in any transaction.

I believe it's better for me to train on my own, and then seek
correction. I believe it's better to come to the instructor with some
knowledge and something to correct. What can I write about following masters? My ONLY lord and master is the Lord of Hosts!

I hope you've found a pleasant life in America. We're close in age so I hope you took advantage of Cali's educational system before the costs got outrageous. If not yet, it's still not too late. I'm doing it!

P.S.
Lama Pai Pak Hok guy's you're killing me!

[sean_stonehart]

Lamawoklee... are you in Cali? Bay Area?

[lamakwoklee]

Nope! If I were, I'd have a lot more options. So that I'm not misunderstood I meant I'm getting back into to college, not that I'm getting back into the University of California system. If I were in San Francisco I wouldn't have a problem...except for paying the high rent.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by cerebus
Hello Sifu Ross. What can you tell me about the contents of that book?
Though the reviewer referred to it as "Northern" it was my understanding that the forms contained were of Tibetan White Crane (the reviewer might have called it "Northern" because the techniques are primarily long arm). I believe the book contains both the traditional and modified versions of the Plum Blossom fist set. I've been trying to get a copy for awhile now to see for myself, but it's almost impossible to obtain.

There is actually a style of White Crane that came out of the Shaolin Temple. It is the Ogrinal Northen Crane (also called Stork).

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by Palmer
I never completly know what to believe when reading the history but what I had read mentioned names like Dai-Dot a lama priest during the Ming dynasty who was said to observe theCrane and Ape. Then a temple Ting-Juck-Lui-Yam that had another Lama priest called Kay-Lam-Buddha had taught it supposevely.
But more importantly for me I believe there is a distinction with these three arts or the Lama arts. In learning the Hop-Gar I had learned principles that I had not seen in other CMA I have studied. Whether historically it is or isnt something may be the case but I believe they have there place as a fairly unique branch of ma in many ways.

What you should see in the history of Chinese martial arts is the principles vailed in alligory. Some times even as a fable.

I know I am a poor speller sorry.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by lamakwoklee
Nope! If I were, I'd have a lot more options. So that I'm not misunderstood I meant I'm getting back into to college, not that I'm getting back into the University of California system. If I were in San Francisco I wouldn't have a problem...except for paying the high rent.


lamakwoklee,

Why are you so interested in the "Lama styles"?


Where do you live?


Are there not any good Kung fu schools near you?

I understand the drive, I just don't understand the "why".

Sincerely

Bell