The argument against sport

[MonkeySlap Too]

In the early days of my training, the only sport available was point sparring or Judo randori. Judo was fun, but lacked any striking. Point sparring gave you 'alive' force, but an unrealistic sort that built really bad habits for real fighting. Oh, and TKD sparring - pretty much a case of the rules creating a great number of bad habits for the street. And boxing - a limited weapons set.

So in the schools people fought "NHB" before the whole MMA craze. If you wanted to fight, this is how you did it. The 'Alive' aspect of training was always sought, but there were no 'sporting' venues that gave you a set of ruls that fit CMA.

So, at least in my neck of the woods, the transition from 'traditional' to 'modern' is not as much of a leap as you might think. Also, it made sense to be against 'sport' - but not be against free fighting. We had some real tough guys who never transitioned to San da or Combat shuai Chiao competitions, because, well, they couldn't care less. But they still practiced 'alive.' At least in regards to free fighting.

I've been in a school where equipment, striking pads, hitting machines, etc. always have been part of the training. Is that somehow less traditional because we included 'modern' inventions like target pads?

[SPJ]

Agreed.

In ancient China, there were many stories that one move beats all.

The move is drilled and drilled over and over. The move becomes iron (Tei), and then diamond (Jing Kang).

The iron palm, iron arm, iron finger, iron leg, iron head, iron body/clothes, iron claws and then great power diamond (Dai Li Jing Kang) palm, leg etc.

They drill against sands, and harder and harder objects, for 10, 15 years.

When in use, one move is fatal or induces serious injury.

In Xing Yi, Beng Quan defeats a lot of people.

In Ba Gua, single exchange palm (Dan Huan Zhang).

In Tai Ji, soft/hard Jin shadows your moves, soft like cotton, your Jin is emptied out, you got hit like a thunder.

In Tong Bei, the throwing arms hit you like a lightening and a thunder.

Let us see may we grapple a shadow, or a lightening flash or a thunder strike.


Hm.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

is it wrong not to care anymore?

i just dont care anymore.

[SPJ]

The only difference between being a sport or not a sport is the rules.

Any fight is to win or survive.

Fight to win is a fight.

You fight with rules. It is a sport.

And we care enough or too much not to care.

:D

[Vash]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
is it wrong not to care anymore?

i just dont care anymore.

If it's wrong, I don't want to be right.

I want to be hip deep in lesbian porn.

And in a lesbian, for that matter.

[Brad]

I think people that participate in sport shouldn't look down those that don't and vice versa. You can learn to defend yourself well without ever having participated in a sport San Da or "NHB" match, but the people that do don't seem to have any problems handeling themselves either(from my experience). So what's the big deal? I think it all comes down to what your needs are. Some people might want to have some experience against quality athletes from other styles but might not have a very good talent pool to draw from in their area. In this case, their best bet at finding people might be to participate in a NHB or San Da competition. Winning these types of competitions also look good on a resume and are one good way at showing potential customers that you probably can fight pretty well if you decide to open up a school. Sport competitions are also just fun for a lot of people, and can be a good experience(winning is great, but it's also important to feel what losing is like too). Competitions also often motivate people to work harder.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too


I've been in a school where equipment, striking pads, hitting machines, etc. always have been part of the training. Is that somehow less traditional because we included 'modern' inventions like target pads? [/B]

Choy Lay Fut has 18 dummies made of wood, sand bags, striking arms, etc. Training tools are not necessarily modern.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

Originally posted by Brad
I think people that participate in sport shouldn't look down those that don't and vice versa. You can learn to defend yourself well without ever having participated in a sport San Da or "NHB" match, but the people that do don't seem to have any problems handeling themselves either(from my experience). So what's the big deal? I think it all comes down to what your needs are. Some people might want to have some experience against quality athletes from other styles but might not have a very good talent pool to draw from in their area. In this case, their best bet at finding people might be to participate in a NHB or San Da competition. Winning these types of competitions also look good on a resume and are one good way at showing potential customers that you probably can fight pretty well if you decide to open up a school. Sport competitions are also just fun for a lot of people, and can be a good experience(winning is great, but it's also important to feel what losing is like too). Competitions also often motivate people to work harder.

This is the sanest post I've seen on this forum in a long time. :D

[Royal Dragon]

Vash said

"I want to be hip deep in lesbian porn.

And in a lesbian, for that matter."

Reply]
See this is why you are not a master yet. Lesbians are useless, and a real master will have no intrest in them, because the odds of making it with one are 0% because they like other women INSTEAD of men.

A real master goes for the "BI" sexual women, because they will take you deep between thier legs while making out with thier girlfreinds at the same time. Many of them prefer men, but just do other women for the fun of it. Hence, you get to have them, and thier girlfriends from time to time, but you really don't have to worry about them cheating on you with another guy because they get thier urges for extra spice out on thier girl freinds.

It's the classic "Have your cake, and eat it too" senario.

Now, young grasshopper, go meditate on this lesson............................................ ......

[MoreMisfortune]

sports are more fun

[SPJ]

Agreed.

:)

[lkfmdc]

Monkey Slap,
I forget your details, sorry if it sounds like I've ignored ya, but me personally, I started trained after the Bruce Lee thing...

By the time I was training, Bruce Lee had come, and his ideas were already somewhat accepted by many, and he'd already had an impact.

But I know guys who were around back then. I've also read stuff that was written back then. I've seen evidence.

When Bruce was putting on boxing gloves, when he was hitting focus mitts, kicking football shields, there WERE so called "traditional" guys who were freaking out. They were loosing their minds in ways similar to this age's "traditional" crowd freaking out against "alive training"

10 years later, you got so called "traditional" guys hitting focus mitts and acting like it was always a normal thing

Now, note something else about Bruce Lee. He was big into creating a "fighting system" and being effective, and getting out of the BS... he was for sparring, he was for contact work, he was for weights...

He also fell into the old trap of thinking that a competition might be "just a sport".

Vunak wrote that famous article "why the elite don't compete" in Inside Karate Magazine

Of course, over the years, so many of the JKD people have been exposed to BJJ and MMA that they all sort of embrace MMA types of competiont now

An interesting turn...

[Vash]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Vash said

"I want to be hip deep in lesbian porn.

And in a lesbian, for that matter."

Reply]
See this is why you are not a master yet. Lesbians are useless, and a real master will have no intrest in them, because the odds of making it with one are 0% because they like other women INSTEAD of men.

A real master goes for the "BI" sexual women, because they will take you deep between thier legs while making out with thier girlfreinds at the same time. Many of them prefer men, but just do other women for the fun of it. Hence, you get to have them, and thier girlfriends from time to time, but you really don't have to worry about them cheating on you with another guy because they get thier urges for extra spice out on thier girl freinds.

It's the classic "Have your cake, and eat it too" senario.

Now, young grasshopper, go meditate on this lesson............................................ ......

I should clarify. When I say "lesbian," I mean porn star type lesbian. They don't seem to be that picky; tongue-in-groove, stud, whichever. And I'm for that. In porn star type ladies. And I'm for me being in them, too.

[EarthDragon]

perhaps part of the problem here is the TCMA that this guy ikfmdc and others were exposed to lacked these parts of training that they now find in MMA.

I can only imagine that they weres never shown the fighting in a proper way for him them understand or grasp it!

Every time I read what heand others posts about TCMA lacking this and lacking that I laugh! because my system doesnt lack any of the things theyor he implies.
If your school doesnt teach you these things then that is the schools or teachers fault. Not TCMA!
For what you claim and say isnt in TCMA , I find in my teaching, learning and system. maybe your lama system wasnt taught to you correctly or maybe you didnt just grasp what you were taught.

People make uneducated and ignorant stamtents about this or that becuse the tiny bit that they were exposed to didnt have it ..... then they think no one has it.

I had a guy say to me kung fu doesnt fight on the ground thats whats wrong with stand up arts.... I said whos kung fu doesnt fight on the ground? he said the one school he visited. I rest my case.



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[red5angel]

I'm with Brad, I dont' think it's important or that it matters whether one trains for a sport or not. Only that brings you to test your skills often and thoroughly against someone who is doing the same. Call it aliveness - I personally hate that word, along with all other buzz words- call it whatever you want. It's common sense that at some point, a fighter has to fight, or someone learning self defense has to defend themselves.
Whole the logic is there to claim that sport fighters have an edge over other artists who don't fight sports, it's subjective. As martial artists we compare ourselves to each other from our own perspectives. I personally look at my serious training from a self defense point of view. I know I have to be in reasonable shape and I need to know how to fight, why? Because being in good shape puts me at the top of the heap in that regard, meaning that most of the people I walk by on the street won't be in as good a shape as I am, meaning I can go longer in a fight then they can.
Having the skills to fight, training daily, or weekly, and training in earnest means that most of the people I pass on the street don't have the skill to beat me. I've taken as much of the luck factor as I can out of the equation from those too points.
Does this cover everything? No. I could also take serious drugs, something like PCP or heroin to give me the "advantages" of low pain reception and mindlessness. I could go out and pick a fight daily so that I can get tough enough to match those street scrappers.
Ultimately I find a middle ground. I don't have the time or the inclination to train for a sport (actually I have a medical reason for not being able to, otherwise I'd love to). I do however want to know how to defend myself, so I train often enough to make the skill work and I test myself from time to time. It's good enough.

[brothernumber9]

Reading comprehension in the U.S. Particularly that of members of KFM are at an all time low.

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
Reading comprehension in the U.S. Particularly that of members of KFM are at an all time low.

This statement has seized the correct by the throat and choked it out

I think people have limited attention spans and can't get past more than a few words, they drift off

They only listened to the first part of that old commercial

"A mind is a terrible thing...."

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
It's common sense that at some point, a fighter has to fight, or someone learning self defense has to defend themselves. So what does a dancer have to do to defend themselves? You are the dancing expert here. Well, since you have 3 months of dance training you are an expert, right? BTW, does your head still smell like Carl's @ss?

[red5angel]

I took wingchun and have been taking Kali classes for the self defense aspect of my training. I also get together for some basic grappling classes from time to time with some freinds but lately that has sort of dropped off. Capoeira is for fun. You should try it, it burns a lot of calories.....

[EarthDragon]

lkfmdc,
actrually its because all you do is post and spout off about the same stuff every single day, day in day out you only have one subject and interest.
And people dont really want to read through your post and take it seriously anymore becuse they know what you will say. it gets very boring talking or agrguing the same point.

arn't you tired?

as many people have said leave the horse alone for God's sake

[lkfmdc]

A young man was born into a rich family

He had access to all the fine arts and the best teachers, nothing was beyond his reach

Still, he felt he had not achieved wisdom. So he asked all his teachers to help him

All pointed to the mountains and told him to find a lone monk who lived up there

The young man traveled fro days to reach the mountain top and find the monk

The first time he found the monk, he told him about all that he had learned and all the names of his teachers, the monk spit on him and walked away

The young man followed the monk.

The next day, the monk turned around and threw dung at the young man

The young man continued to follow

One morning, the young man woke up and found the monk standing above him, urinating on him.

The young man stood up, angry and screamed at the monk.

The monk slapped him with his shoe

The young man thanked him and walked away, enlightened

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
I took wingchun and have been taking Kali classes for the self defense aspect of my training. I also get together for some basic grappling classes from time to time with some freinds but lately that has sort of dropped off. Capoeira is for fun. You should try it, it burns a lot of calories.....

Originally posted by red5angel
I take martial arts to learn to fight, period.
Ah...the irony.

[EarthDragon]

LOLOLOL MK

This dude is so full of $ hit he doesnt even realize how stupid he sounds....

If it wernt for riding ikfmdc nuts while being his secret lover and disagreeing with everthing I say he would have no life!


poor little trevor he will never have his own life.........

[red5angel]

Ah...the irony.

what, that it doesn't take me 5 minutes to beat an oppnent? That's normal MK, we all learn to end a fight as quickly as possible.
Remember, taebo is not a martial art.

[EarthDragon]

master killer your my hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for pointing that out

You hate this little dude more than I do...........

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
what, that it doesn't take me 5 minutes to beat an oppnent? That's normal MK, we all learn to end a fight as quickly as possible.
Remember, taebo is not a martial art. Use some Listerine. I still smell Carl.

[lkfmdc]

Speaking of irony.

ED hasn't notice MK agreeing with me through most of this

but even more funny....

A guy who claims to be teaching a Buddhist scholar history and culture doesn't recognize one of the most famous Zen Koans of all time....

:rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

who says I didnt recongnize what you wrote? I have over 100 books from buddhism and could pull them out and make my point if you wish.

PS my student is not a scholar, he is living at the temple to learn to become one. I am not teaching him this I am teaching him the histioy of my system. how would he know of it?
and you talk about people no comprehending what they read?

[red5angel]

lol! you guys are crackin me up!! Now who's riding who's nutz?! One of you can't match wits with me so two of you have to try? I'd go back to TMA cause internet-do is just not your thing.

[red5angel]

who says I didnt recongnize what you wrote? I have over 100 books from buddhism and could pull them out and make my point if you wish.

I love the backpeddling. So far ED your discussion skills are seriously lacking. You couldn't apply logic when you were arguing with me about chi and you can't apply it here against lkfmdc. You always fall to childish arguments about who is childish (that is actual irony MK) and eventually it degrades to name calling because you get so frustrated with not being able to make any sense. It's seriously pathetic dude. If I were you I'd just go back to practicing that ancient art of yours. Maybe you could teach MK how to beat someone in less then 5 minutes?