View Full Version : Listen to my bands new demo and new Anti-Bush songs (V funny
Hello folks. I have 2 treats up for you today. One is the classically trained LaRouche Youth Movement Anti-Bush songs and some of the songs they made while campaigning. The 2nd are 2 songs the band that I'm producing released, it's ROCKIN.
http://www.wlym.com/mp3/20041030-music.mp3
(Fast Foreward to 1:00 Minute)
First one:George Bush the CokeHead
Lyrics:
George W. Bush that cokehead
that fool has lost his brain
Drrryyyy drrruunnkkk
he cannot spell his name
take him away, away away
George Bush is so insane
George W Bush the cokehead
that fool has fried his brain
(This is a Cannon, so the verses overlap each other)
Where's your vaccine?
Sung to the tune of "Feres Jacqué?"
Where's our vaccine? Where's your vaccine?
Ask George Bush, Ask George Bush
he wants to kill your grandma
He wants to kill your grandma
Naazzzi. Naaazzii.
That too is also a Cannon, so it overlaps
The final is my FAVOURITE!
If my baby dies from the flu
will George Bush go to her funeral
If your presidents a nazi
do you think he'll care for you?
You're the real fool
THe 2 rock and unrelated songs by the band are:
Synesthesia
http://www.chamberband.com/music/synes128.mp3
Para Mi Pais
http://www.chamberband.com/music/paramipais128.mp3
[/b][size=1][color=blue]-This message has been edited by KAMAZON on 11/1/2004 10:39:20 PM[/font][/font]
Kristoffer
11-02-2004, 05:43 AM
haha cool
Starchaser107
11-05-2004, 03:19 PM
that was cool keep fighting the good fight.
Christopher M
11-06-2004, 05:51 PM
Yeah, good job. We can never have too much propaganda in the world.
MoreMisfortune
11-06-2004, 08:47 PM
shut you trap, right winger
i dont even think ring wingers should be allowed on ORA, disgusting Vader-wanna be bunch mother fockers
Christopher M
11-06-2004, 09:16 PM
:p
MoreMisfortune
11-06-2004, 09:27 PM
:D
Kristoffer
11-07-2004, 04:34 AM
Lord Vadah.. *yes master?* RIIIISE !
Originally posted by Christopher M
Yeah, good job. We can never have too much propaganda in the world.
Oddly enough, you're right. The private intrests that only care only for maximum profit have a vast option of propoganda outlets. Many own media cartels such as Clear Channel, and several other big ones. They use these to spread false propoganda designed to do several things to the population. Some of the effects of mass media propoganda include:
Mass Hysteria
Brainwashing
Slander/Libel spreading
False sence of security (Economy is doing JUST FINE, We're #1, etc.)
Anything designed to counter these effects, are also propoganda. Therefore, as long as the special intrests spread propoganda, there should be MORE propoganda to counter it. Then maybe, this nation can avoid elected a dry drunk 'former' drug user man with a mental condition.
Christopher M
11-10-2004, 05:18 AM
Um, no. The problem with propaganda isn't that it's propaganda saying a certain thing, which would suggest that the solution is to have a whole bunch more propaganda saying something else. The problem with propaganda is that it is propaganda. The solution is not more propaganda, it's more truth. When you flood the cultural discourse with propaganda in reaction to the propaganda that is already there, you are making the problem worse, not better. Because of the particular machination of this discourse, people tend to propagate the problem unknowingly. This is too bad. However, when you do it on purpose, now that is really too bad.
Originally posted by Christopher M
Um, no. The problem with propaganda isn't that it's propaganda saying a certain thing, which would suggest that the solution is to have a whole bunch more propaganda saying something else. The problem with propaganda is that it is propaganda. The solution is not more propaganda, it's more truth. When you flood the cultural discourse with propaganda in reaction to the propaganda that is already there, you are making the problem worse, not better. Because of the particular machination of this discourse, people tend to propagate the problem unknowingly. This is too bad. However, when you do it on purpose, now that is really too bad.
You don't understand the meaning of the word propaganda. From dictionary.com:
Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
Proaganda doesn't mean that it is not true, it could very well be. If some information is given that advocates certain causes or a doctrine, it is propoganda, regardless if it is true or not.
By the way, our songs aren't lying. George Bush *IS* a dry drunk, and a 'recovering' drug addict. The man is clinically insane, as done by a case study of a leading Psychologist in the Washington U, Dr. Justin A. Frank, his findings are published in the book "Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President". George Bushes administration IS responsible for the vaccine shortage, and they treat it like all their other mistakes; they will let Americans die than admit they made a mistake. This is an overtly fascist administration that benefits no one except a very select few, at the cost of the world. I fully stand behind my propaganda.
MonkeyBoy
11-10-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Newb
George Bushes administration IS responsible for the vaccine shortage, and they treat it like all their other mistakes
No president makes law, they ratify what the House and Senate decide. Even when he Vetoes a Bill, they can still vote on it again and get around him.
Congress made that decision, the Left's beloved Hillary Clinton voted for the cap on what we would pay for vaccines.
Once Congress said it wouldn't pay what American companies wanted, it then took to ordering from British concerns.
We have a Flu vaccine shortage because Congress was trying to save money.
The USA went to war because it's Congress voted to do so.
Our economy took a hit because of the financial havoc of losing the Trade Towers did.
When people blame the President for these things he isn't reponsible for during an election it's forgiven but to keep up this Left Wing fantasy after losing an election this way is just sad.
If you have a problem with this countries policies and laws, it is your representitives in the House and Senate that you have a problem with. If you think the President makes laws, declares wars or decides national policy, you have never read the United States Constitution.
When Hillary Clinton runs for president, please remember to ask her why she helped vote the USA into a war and a vaccine shortage.
Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
No president makes law, they ratify what the House and Senate decide. Even when he Vetoes a Bill, they can still vote on it again and get around him.
Congress made that decision, the Left's beloved Hillary Clinton voted for the cap on what we would pay for vaccines.
Once Congress said it wouldn't pay what American companies wanted, it then took to ordering from British concerns.
We have a Flu vaccine shortage because Congress was trying to save money.
The USA went to war because it's Congress voted to do so.
Our economy took a hit because of the financial havoc of losing the Trade Towers did.
When people blame the President for these things he isn't reponsible for during an election it's forgiven but to keep up this Left Wing fantasy after losing an election this way is just sad.
If you have a problem with this countries policies and laws, it is your representitives in the House and Senate that you have a problem with. If you think the President makes laws, declares wars or decides national policy, you have never read the United States Constitution.
When Hillary Clinton runs for president, please remember to ask her why she helped vote the USA into a war and a vaccine shortage.
Your composition would be correct if there weren't several glaring points that you did not take into account here.
2001
During the 2001 flu season, the 74 million flu shots available were inadequate. In May, the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO, now the Government Accountability Office) supplied a report, "Flu Vaccine; Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People," stating that delays in flu vaccine over 2000-01 showed that "The government and the pharmaceutical industry are unprepared for a flu pandemic or vaccine shortages" and that, in the event of shortages, "Currently, there is no system to ensure that high-risk people have priority when the supply of vaccine is short."
In November, the Council of the Institutes of Medicine called for creation of a national Vaccine Authority to coordinate action to deal with unreliable vaccine supplies, and pending crises.
By the end of the year, Monarch, a significant vaccine producer, announced it was exiting the industry. This followed the 2000 exit by Pfizer, the giant drug-maker, and by 2003, both Wyeth and Merck had exited the injectable-flu-vaccine industry, leaving only two companies remaining.
The Bush Administration did nothing!
That report can found on the GAO.GOV website:
Flu Vaccine; Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People,"
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-01-624
Vaccine: Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-01-786T
First off, the President of the USA makes the executive decisions. If the Government Accountability Organization is warning you of this crisis, the head of this country, the president, not only have the right and authority, but the moral responsibility to bring this to the congress. You also have the capability to at a bare minimum, have the FDA or other bodies of government listen to the recommendations of the Governmetn Accountibility Organization (GAO) to secure vaccine from other plants.
2002
In September, the GAO issued another report, focussing on ways the FDA could "help address the unmet need of a stable and sufficient vaccine supply." These recommendations were ignored.
GAO-02-987 Childhood Vaccines: Ensuring an Adequate Supply Poses ...
www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-02-987
2003
In March, the Institutes of Medicine issued its 400-page, ten-year study, Microbial Threats to Health; Emergence, Detection, and Response, stating that vaccine manufacturers could hardly meet demand in 2001 and 2002; the "public health infrastructure is inadequate," it found, and the U.S. and other countries were unprepared, in particular, for the risk of pandemic.
http://www.iom.edu/report.asp?id=5381
In June, an FDA team was deployed to Liverpool, England, to inspect a vaccine facility—at which they found contamination problems; but nevertheless, they subsequently gave the okay to the prospective plant purchaser, Chiron Corp. of California, to operate the plant to supply the United States with 46-48 million flu shots—half the intended 2004-05 supply. This approval occurred despite the fact that the plant had had a succession of owners and underinvestment; and in 2000, when owned by Celltech, had been shut down for tainted polio vaccine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004
In August, Chiron announced that as many as several million flu vaccination doses might have been contaminated. But only after the Oct. 5 shutdown of the Liverpool plant by British regulatory officials, did the FDA send investigators, and find for themselves the manufacturing problems. The FDA has not made available its June 2003 inspection report.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-10-10-flu-vaccine_x.htm
http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=521733
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/archivedStory.asp?archive=true&dist=ArchiveSplash&siteid=mktw&guid=%7BEE4772D3%2D41C9%2D44C5%2D92DE%2D98B6154662 E3%7D&returnURL=%2Fnews%2Fstory%2Easp%3Fguid%3D%7BEE4772 D3%2D41C9%2D44C5%2D92DE%2D98B6154662E3%7D%26siteid %3Dmktw%26dist%3Dmktwsnap%26archive%3Dtrue%26param %3Darchive%26garden%3D%26minisite%3D
n fact, the Bush Administration health officials had forewarning of problems at Chiron's British plant in August 2004, when contamination was found in some lots of Chiron vaccine, and they did nothing. The British government then acted to line up back-up sources; but the Bush Administration did nothing.
http://www.pharma-lexicon.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=14769
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=15096 .
This is the timeline of the vaccine shortage warnings to the Bush Administration. The Bush Administration has failed the friend and family of the thousands of people that will needlessly die because of the flu, only because they were not able to aquire a vaccine. This government failed them. More people will die this year than they did on 9-11, and yet, the Bush administration STILL refuses to get vaccines from Canada and so fourth, because that would admit they made a mistake. Yes folks, so they don't have to admit they made even 1 mistake, they are willing to let thousands of people die. Use that in context on the problems in the economy and how they handle Iraq. With their reasoning, it's probably a good thing anyways, since keeping old people alive costs alot of money and the election is over, aren't they useless eaters, afterall anyways? Aren't they a burden to society anyways? That is some of the sick rationale I've heard. It's out there folks, and it's insanely inhumane.
PS: I would never vote or support that she-dog Hillary, not unless she had a epiphany as if she was visited by spirit of Christmas future and changed like Ebaziner did.
mortal
11-10-2004, 03:32 PM
"Worst, lyrics, ever"- Comic book store guy- The Simpsons
Lyrics like that will guarantee a republican in office for the next 20 years. Keep up the good work!
Your band must really stink.
Originally posted by mortal
"Worst, lyrics, ever"- Comic book store guy- The Simpsons
Lyrics like that will guarantee a republican in office for the next 20 years. Keep up the good work!
Your band must really stink.
You actually have to listen to the cannons. I find it quite funny when people who do almost nothing political until maybe a few months before the election, give their opinions. If you go through and read the first post, you will see that they are not even related, those lyrics and my band. The Bands demo were the last 2 songs I linked, not these anti bush classical cannons.
mortal
11-10-2004, 04:08 PM
I think you could have done a better job on the lyrics. I see your message a little to clear. Try being more subtle. Insinuate things in the lyrics. Let your audience figure it out for themselves.
Nazi? I think you need to read your history books.
If you think Bush is a Nazi you really have your priority crossed.
I honestly didn't listen to your band. My computer doesn't have speakers.
If you guys kick ass the then the lyrics won't matter as much.
Originally posted by mortal
I think you could have done a better job on the lyrics. I see your message a little to clear. Try being more subtle. Insinuate things in the lyrics. Let your audience figure it out for themselves.
Nazi? I think you need to read your history books.
If you think Bush is a Nazi you really have your priority crossed.
I honestly didn't listen to your band. My computer doesn't have speakers.
If you guys kick ass the then the lyrics won't matter as much.
The nazi point of the song was due to the fact that George W. Bushes presidency, is eerily similar to the rise of Adolf Hitler. I explain:
1.) Adolf Hitler was 'appointed' Chancellor of Germany during a financial meltdown.
George W. Bush also was 'appointed' during a financial collapse.
2.) Adolf Hitler at a bare minimum exploited the Reishtag fire to wipe out German constitutional law and appoint himself as Der Fuhrer who rules in emergency decree to fight 'communist terrorists'.
George W. Bushes administration at a bare minimum also used 9-11 as a Reishtag fire to tear up constitutional laws, and under his administration thousands of muslim men have been rounded up without a lawyer or due process, since they 'might' be terrorists.
3.) Adolf Hitler started a war with a defenceless Poland who in no way, had any capability to invade Germany. Hitler repeatedly stated that Poland posed a 'imminent threat' to Germany, and had to be pre-emptively taken out before they could do massage damage.
George W. Bushes administartion also said the same discredited line to attack a defenceless nation with no real threat against the USA. The Bush Administration used the fraudulant testimony of convicted felon Ahmad Chalabi and said it is 'concrete evidence' that Iraq has 'WMD' and will nuke us. They completely ignored the real armed millitary, the UN, people such as Scott Ritter, the CIA, and others who told them the WMD claims are bull****. Vice President **** Cheney personally repeated information he KNEW to be fraud such as the Iraq Yellowcake Purified Uranium hoax.
4.) Hitler stated that the Hague convention didn't apply to German soldiers anymore, and therefore they could not be held responsible by the laws of defending humanity set fourth by it.
George W. Bush also signed off on legal documents setup by Cheneys lawyer Addington and his associate, Gonzalez (now being appointed as Attorney General), who wrote since the US was going to commit crimes against humanity, the Geneva Convention should not apply to us. As a result, George Bush, just like Adolf Hitler signed off against having these laws that were passed to protect humans against serious warcrimes, did not apply to them. This was applied in Guantamino bay and Abu Ghriab prison.
The list goes on and on. Dont even get me started on the direct nazi connection of Leo Strauss who worked directly with Hitlers Jurist and is a teacher of many of these people. Also let's not forget the Presscott Bush bank being shut down in 1942 for aiding the nazis against the US. The fact is simple, the Bush administration has shown itself to be a fascist administration, with minimal regard for human life. I stand behind my statement 100%.
Christopher M
11-10-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Newb
You don't understand the meaning of the word propaganda.
You know very well what I meant by propaganda. Don't pretend otherwise just for the sake of disagreement. Although that is an excellent demonstration of exactly what I'm alleging you do.
By the way, our songs aren't lying.
Your songs are attacking people rather than ideas; relying on bitterness rather than reason; and calling things wrong rather than suggesting what could be right -- in short, your songs are communicated hate in it's most destructive sense.
Mortal's point about 'keeping a Republican in office' is bang on: it's precisely because critics of Bush have proven themselves profoundly incapable or unwilling of offering any reasonable critique (in spite of the overwhelming evidence that could be raised towards this task) that Bush won this election. Keep this behavior up, and the elections will continue to go this way.
Originally posted by Christopher M
You know very well what I meant by propaganda. Don't pretend otherwise just for the sake of disagreement. Although that is an excellent demonstration of exactly what I'm alleging you do.
excuse me sir, but you are completely out of line, you give a wrong idea or defination of propoganda, accuse me of your wrong defination of propaganda and I give you the exact defination from the dictionary so we can have a dialogue. if you feel that I am mistaken, you can make yourself more clear using the words properly. How can I know what you are saying, if you aren't using the words right, such as the poor defination you give of propaganda. I don't want to just disagree, just to understand your defination better.
Your songs are attacking people rather than ideas; relying on bitterness rather than reason; and calling things wrong rather than suggesting what could be right -- in short, your songs are communicated hate in it's most destructive sense.
The songs are designed to bring people over. It works great too! When people hear these songs they laugh, come over, have a dialogue and get some material to read, then come to our meetings. We have tons of litterature with lots of great ideas, and solutions. Also, telling the truth isn't spreading hate, it's spreading truth. Like it or not, these songs are truthfull and sometimes, the truth hurts. What is more hurtfull, is NOT to tell the truth for the sake of being politically correct. THAT has severely hurt the nation .
Mortal's point about 'keeping a Republican in office' is bang on: it's precisely because critics of Bush have proven themselves profoundly incapable or unwilling of offering any reasonable critique (in spite of the overwhelming evidence that could be raised towards this task) that Bush won this election. Keep this behavior up, and the elections will continue to go this way. [/B]
I love how people who don't do anything political except maybe put out signs the last few weeks of a election offer me their 'opinion', without even knowing our record. The reason Bush won the election is because John Kerry didn't fight the blatant vote fraud and didn't fight on stopping this economic meltdown like he should have. Although anti-bush rallies are very impotent, we're not protestors. We're a political organization that has solutions to the economic and war crisis, but cannot in any way get them through this evident Fascist Bush Administration. This administration is letting people die of the simple flu, than admit they even made a mistake. This is part of the reason people are dying in a quagmire in Iraq that we never should have gotten into since the whole war was built on fraud, and the economic collapse.
mortal
11-11-2004, 09:59 AM
Keep up the smear campaign. Who are you to assume that we all just got involved recently with politics?
I think it is sad that anyone could think the horrible things you said about our president.
You sir are slandering a good man because he disagrees with the way you think the country should be run. That is fascist in itself.
Quit your bellyaching he won the election by over 3 million votes. He had the most votes in history. How bad do you lefty's have to lose before you admit defeat?
There is a grace in losing. Kerry showed it why can't you?
He won 31 of the 48 states. I would call that a LANDSLIDE!
Originally posted by mortal
Keep up the smear campaign. Who are you to assume that we all just got involved recently with politics?
I think it is sad that anyone could think the horrible things you said about our president.
I agree they are horrible, and so is our President. Read the posts, George Bush IS responsible for conducting the illegal Iraq war, for cancelling the Geneva Convention which set the stage for making torture fully legal (then goes around blaming the soldiers who were following orders), he would rather let old and sick people die of the flu, than admit he made a mistak and correct it, the economy is a mess and will collapse any month now, the list just goes on and on. They are horrible things to say, because the man is a horrible president.
You sir are slandering a good man because he disagrees with the way you think the country should be run. That is fascist in itself.
I am telling the truth about the President, I will be happy to debate the points with you if you would like.
Quit your bellyaching he won the election by over 3 million votes. He had the most votes in history. How bad do you lefty's have to lose before you admit defeat?
The GOP also is involved in the biggest vote supression and vote fraud scandal in history, and that's 2004. Regardless, I am not here saying John Kerry is the next President, etc. I'm saying George Bush is not qualified to lead this nation as commander in chief. A president who will let people die than admit mistakes, and has made horrible misjudgements and listened to fraudulant evidence to get us into Iraq war, and rips up civil liberties as well as constitutional law, resided over the biggest economic collapse in history, has no place being in office. He should go back to growing worms in Texas.
There is a grace in losing. Kerry showed it why can't you?
He won 31 of the 48 states. I would call that a LANDSLIDE! [/B]
This is an example of what I mean by not being political. Just because the man is president I should follow his decisions? I was right to oppose the Iraq war, his economic proposals, how his administration rips up the constitution, how they run a 'regime change' against people who did not constitute a threat to us based on pure lies and deciept, the list goes on.
Mark my words Bush supporters, and remember them well this time next year. You will be very sorry for your vote and lack of research. When this economy meltsdown, and there is no solution offered except more illegal warfare and more civil rights distroyed, you will then begin to wake up.
mortal
11-11-2004, 10:23 AM
A year from now when the economy is booming I will post again telling you about how you were wrong.
Blame Edwards for the flu debacle.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
Take care.
Originally posted by mortal
A year from now when the economy is booming I will post again telling you about how you were wrong.
How will the economy be booming when the dollar has fallen over 60% against the bankrupt Euro, that a record surplus has been turned to a record deficit, millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost, the prices of physical goods such as oil, steel, iron, copper, gold, platinum, wood, rubber, and so fourth have doubled in price? How will the economy be booming if millions of jobs are being lost, and 48 of the states cannot provide basic essential needs since they are financially bankrupt? What about the national physical economy that got a D from the civil corps of engineers, it just goes on and on and on. The ONLY thing keeping the illusion of this economy going is the fraudulant housing bubble. My parents house has more than doubled in price withen the last 2 years. The US Govt. has been giving out dollars at negative intrest rates (if you count inflation). Personal bankruptcies and foreclosures are at an all time high. Sir, you are living in a SOLID DELUSION. It is *DANGEROUS*. I pray for your children, since their lives will be cut the shortest if you don't wake up and face reality.
Blame Edwards for the flu debacle.
George Bush is responsible, he is the EXECUTIVE OFFICER. He is the *PRESIDENT*. I don't understand why Bush supporters always pretend Bush isn't responsible for his mistakes.
Since you didn't read the thread which went through why Bush is repsonsible, I post it to you yet again. Do note that Bush still refuses to fix the Flu problem, since that would mean he would have to admit he made a mistake. More people will die because they don't have a flu vaccine, than they did on 9-11
2001
During the 2001 flu season, the 74 million flu shots available were inadequate. In May, the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO, now the Government Accountability Office) supplied a report, "Flu Vaccine; Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People," stating that delays in flu vaccine over 2000-01 showed that "The government and the pharmaceutical industry are unprepared for a flu pandemic or vaccine shortages" and that, in the event of shortages, "Currently, there is no system to ensure that high-risk people have priority when the supply of vaccine is short."
In November, the Council of the Institutes of Medicine called for creation of a national Vaccine Authority to coordinate action to deal with unreliable vaccine supplies, and pending crises.
By the end of the year, Monarch, a significant vaccine producer, announced it was exiting the industry. This followed the 2000 exit by Pfizer, the giant drug-maker, and by 2003, both Wyeth and Merck had exited the injectable-flu-vaccine industry, leaving only two companies remaining.
The Bush Administration did nothing!
That report can found on the GAO.GOV website:
Flu Vaccine; Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People,"
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-01-624
Vaccine: Supply Problems Heighten Need to Ensure Access for High-Risk People
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-01-786T
First off, the President of the USA makes the executive decisions. If the Government Accountability Organization is warning you of this crisis, the head of this country, the president, not only have the right and authority, but the moral responsibility to bring this to the congress. You also have the capability to at a bare minimum, have the FDA or other bodies of government listen to the recommendations of the Governmetn Accountibility Organization (GAO) to secure vaccine from other plants.
2002
In September, the GAO issued another report, focussing on ways the FDA could "help address the unmet need of a stable and sufficient vaccine supply." These recommendations were ignored.
GAO-02-987 Childhood Vaccines: Ensuring an Adequate Supply Poses ...
www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-02-987
2003
In March, the Institutes of Medicine issued its 400-page, ten-year study, Microbial Threats to Health; Emergence, Detection, and Response, stating that vaccine manufacturers could hardly meet demand in 2001 and 2002; the "public health infrastructure is inadequate," it found, and the U.S. and other countries were unprepared, in particular, for the risk of pandemic.
http://www.iom.edu/report.asp?id=5381
In June, an FDA team was deployed to Liverpool, England, to inspect a vaccine facility—at which they found contamination problems; but nevertheless, they subsequently gave the okay to the prospective plant purchaser, Chiron Corp. of California, to operate the plant to supply the United States with 46-48 million flu shots—half the intended 2004-05 supply. This approval occurred despite the fact that the plant had had a succession of owners and underinvestment; and in 2000, when owned by Celltech, had been shut down for tainted polio vaccine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004
In August, Chiron announced that as many as several million flu vaccination doses might have been contaminated. But only after the Oct. 5 shutdown of the Liverpool plant by British regulatory officials, did the FDA send investigators, and find for themselves the manufacturing problems. The FDA has not made available its June 2003 inspection report.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-10-10-flu-vaccine_x.htm
http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=521733
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/archivedStory.asp?archive=true&dist=ArchiveSplash&siteid=mktw&guid=%7BEE4772D3%2D41C9%2D44C5%2D92DE%2D98B6154662 E3%7D&returnURL=%2Fnews%2Fstory%2Easp%3Fguid%3D%7BEE4772 D3%2D41C9%2D44C5%2D92DE%2D98B6154662E3%7D%26siteid %3Dmktw%26dist%3Dmktwsnap%26archive%3Dtrue%26param %3Darchive%26garden%3D%26minisite%3D
n fact, the Bush Administration health officials had forewarning of problems at Chiron's British plant in August 2004, when contamination was found in some lots of Chiron vaccine, and they did nothing. The British government then acted to line up back-up sources; but the Bush Administration did nothing.
http://www.pharma-lexicon.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=14769
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=15096 .
This is the timeline of the vaccine shortage warnings to the Bush Administration. The Bush Administration has failed the friend and family of the thousands of people that will needlessly die because of the flu, only because they were not able to aquire a vaccine. This government failed them. More people will die this year than they did on 9-11, and yet, the Bush administration STILL refuses to get vaccines from Canada and so fourth, because that would admit they made a mistake. Yes folks, so they don't have to admit they made even 1 mistake, they are willing to let thousands of people die. Use that in context on the problems in the economy and how they handle Iraq. With their reasoning, it's probably a good thing anyways, since keeping old people alive costs alot of money and the election is over, aren't they useless eaters, afterall anyways? Aren't they a burden to society anyways? That is some of the sick rationale I've heard. It's out there folks, and it's insanely inhumane.
Christopher M
11-11-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Newb
I don't want to just disagree, just to understand your defination better.
If you sincerely don't understand what is meant here by 'propaganda', the last section of my post is something of an explanation: "attacking people rather than ideas; relying on bitterness rather than reason; and calling things wrong rather than suggesting what could be right." 'Propaganda' is meant as distinctive from 'argument.' In an argument, the various alternatives of a position are considered, and reason is offered to support one alternative over the others. In propaganda, only one side of a position is considered, and subversive methods are used to support it (such as emotional appeals, implicit priming, appeals to personal or cultural identity, false or misleading statements, etc.).
The songs are designed to bring people over. It works great too!
Indeed. Propaganda is effective. That doesn't mean it's right.
We have tons of litterature with lots of great ideas, and solutions.
You could indeed have great ideas. However, since they're not what you're communicating, it's a moot point.
Also, telling the truth isn't spreading hate, it's spreading truth.
Slurs are not the type of statements to which truth values can even apply. If I call you an *******, it's in no sense true or false -- it's merely an emotional expression.
I love how people who don't do anything political except maybe put out signs the last few weeks of a election offer me their 'opinion'
Do you somehow know what my political involvement is, or is this meant to be directed at someone else?
...without even knowing our record.
You shared your 'record.' If you have decided that what you shared isn't representative of your 'record', then feel free to retract or qualify it.
Originally posted by Christopher M
If you sincerely don't understand what is meant here by 'propaganda', the last section of my post is something of an explanation: "attacking people rather than ideas; relying on bitterness rather than reason; and calling things wrong rather than suggesting what could be right." 'Propaganda' is meant as distinctive from 'argument.' In an argument, the various alternatives of a position are considered, and reason is offered to support one alternative over the others. In propaganda, only one side of a position is considered, and subversive methods are used to support it (such as emotional appeals, implicit priming, appeals to personal or cultural identity, false or misleading statements, etc.).
Indeed. Propaganda is effective. That doesn't mean it's right.
You could indeed have great ideas. However, since they're not what you're communicating, it's a moot point.
Slurs are not the type of statements to which truth values can even apply. If I call you an *******, it's in no sense true or false -- it's merely an emotional expression.
Do you somehow know what my political involvement is, or is this meant to be directed at someone else?
You shared your 'record.' If you have decided that what you shared isn't representative of your 'record', then feel free to retract or qualify it.
Thank you for the reply. I will address your first point where you brought up what you ment when you said Propaganda:
If you sincerely don't understand what is meant here by 'propaganda', the last section of my post is something of an explanation: "attacking people rather than ideas; relying on bitterness rather than reason; and calling things wrong rather than suggesting what could be right." 'Propaganda' is meant as distinctive from 'argument.'[/b]
The point is that the songs are not wrong in blaming the Bush Administration on the flu vaccine shortage. It is a very honorable thing if the Bush Administration were to do what is right, and take care of the mess. They can admit they made mistakes, which I have already laid out how they did 2x in this thread (with full links), and FIX THE DANG PROBLEM. Stop the old people from dying in lines for Gods sake! This man and his administration are more concerned with not looking weak, than they are about saving lives.
The Humanity Gut-Check
To further illustrate this point, I will cite yet another barely mentioned the example of a national tragedy happening right here and now. A man who has been proven innocent by new DNA evidence, and the fact that the prosecutions witness defence fell apart, is going to die on death row. All 7 Republican appointed judges voted to kill him anyways, because the legal proceedings were followed properly. THAT right there ladies and gentlemen, is Fascism! THAT is the law of Carl Schmitt, who was Hitlers Jurist. We have this bloated image of human rights, and poke at the Chinese. The Chinese at least don't kill people who are innocent, they might even compensate him a little.
I will continue more when I have some time after I leave work :D
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