Wing Lam Videos.... Any good in general?

[Shrewd135]

I am looking to pick up a couple videos for a few weapons techniques, and was wondering if anyone could give some recommendations. Wing Lam seems to have every video known to man or animal for that matter. So I wonder if they are any good.

Specifically basic Staff, Spear, and straight sword.

I would appreciate any links to good video reference areas as well.

Thanks.

[David Jamieson]

I'll vouch for the quality of the WLE vids. They are well put together and get quite detailed.

If you have some decent foundational knowlkedge and skill it is likely you will like these vids. The focus is North Shaolin, Hung Gar and Sun Tai Chi. All his basics tapes are geared towards these styles.

[MasterKiller]

http://us.yesasia.com/en/brPrdDept.aspx/did-6447/code-c/section-videos/

If you have some basic understanding of Kung Fu, the Shaolin VCDs from Shi De Yang are awesome. They're in Chinese, but you can see the forms from 3 different angles and in varying speeds.

[norther practitioner]

I have the 3-sectioned staff video.. I would recomend it.

[GeneChing]

I wrote most of those videos, so I'm biased.

Why did you post this on the media forum?

[norther practitioner]

Gene, while I'm no expert, I'm guessing because it is a form of Media.. but like I said, I'm no expert.

[GeneChing]

Although it would probably be more powerful on either the Southern (Hung Gar), Shaolin or internal forum. I almost missed it myself here.

[norther practitioner]

Just because of YOUR browsing insufficiencies we should move it.. yeah, you're right though...lol

:D

[GeneChing]

It just seemed funny to me, that's all.

[GeneChing]

...looks like Design Sifu moved it.

[brothernumber9]

"not moving it"

but are you missing it? The Hung Ga that is?

[sayloc]

Hi Gene,

When you put a form out on video, is it the whole form or is it chaged for the gerneral public?

Do you or anyone else know if the Wing Lam videos ore authentic or changed?

Thanks for your time

have a nice day

[hasayfu]

I believe Gene has stated this on the forum before but the forms on the video are as close to what is taught at the time at Lam Kwoon as possible. Nothing is changed specifically for the videos.

That said, as with any performance, there are always some idiosyncracies and they don't really get highlighted in the video. Overall, they are as authentic as any instruction you could get.

Realize too that even within a school, two people will have some variations in the way they perform a set.

[Kennyfist]

The question sparks a major concern for those who want to learn from videos etc.
The simple solution is to find a legitimate style, an authentic lineage holder (and skilled) and learn from him/her.
Here you ask the authenticity of the forms in the WLE videos, but you can ask the same question of any video or vcd.
1. Is the style authentic or recently made-up
2. Is the demonstrator a real lineage holder or a fake?
3. Is the demonstrator qualified (skilled) to represent the style he or she demonstrates?
4. A real style or system, an authentic lineage holder who is skilled, but how do you know what he or she puts in the video or vcd is the authentic form and not modified or have parts withheld.

Let me give you an example, coming from mainland china were a set of vcds on Ziranmen , demonstrated by Du Feihu who claims to be grandson of the famed Du xinwu , and also a student of Wan Laisheng. Guess what? He got sued by Du xinwu's grand daughters for claiming to be Du xinwu's grandson (if I'm not mistaken).
Would that give you a lot of confidence in what he puts out?
I can go on about suspected made-up systems but the point is not to start some flaming.
The point? Much better to find authentic sifu of a real style and ask to be taught. Requires possibly lots of research and thought, but I think the results are more rewarding then picking up a commercial audio-visual.
Of course the audio-visuals can satisfy possibly some curiosity or research desire, but do you think eg a BJJ guy would put his best techniques out on video so that the other stylists can see and find counters for them?

[Shaolinlueb]

i have the first twop wing lam hung gar videos and my buddy has the shaolin double daggers one. they are pretty good videos.

[GeneChing]

For fighters, a lot of them do put out their best techniques - if not, you can surely see them in fight footage. What makes their techniques so effective tends to be their execution, not the technique itself. Can I do Cung Le's famous takedowns (http://www.martialartsmart.net/tc-cl003.html)? Sure, if my opponent is just standing there cooperating with the fall. Can I do that in the ring like Cung. Not in my life.

As for forms, it's different. You do want to show off your skills in any public demonstration (otherwise, why bother?) and you want to look good. But there's no evidence, no body, nobody gets knocked out in forms, so you got to bust out your strong moves.

Anyway, that being said, there were modifications made to some of the internal stuff - particularly the iron body/iron palm methods - but the forms themselves are as ture to what Wing Lam was teaching at the time as we could make them. There are a few errors here and there, since we cranked'em out pretty fast (at least one a week, once one was shot, scripted, edited and narrated in a single day). So the few of us (well, four or five people) who worked on those videos might be able to tell a video student from those errors, but that wasn't intentional. I wish I could say we planned that.

[redflag]

I got his Tom Toy vid and Wing Lam doesn't even perform on it. It's one of his students and Wing Lam has to correct him on the same thing every time. SAME CORRECTION and his stupid student doesn't even get it. It's awful. Save the lessons for your school. We want to see something polished from the video of a master. I've seen a few of his other videos and Wing Lam doesn't even perform the whole set from beginning to end. They're all edited and spliced together. This guy is supposed to be a master? Give me a break.

[David Jamieson]

lol @ redflags lame attempt to troll with the old vanguards of bile, vitriol and personal bitterness. hahahahaha.

so one of lam's students kick your azz recently or something? :p

[GeneChing]

Because I'm gonna kick your ass again.

I will grant you that your criticism is somewhat fair. Sifu Wing Lam has one of his students demonstrate for the breakdowns on the Tom Toy (tan tui) video, and does have to correct him in the process. I remember having a big argument about that when we were in production. Sifu Lam's video series was produced very quickly - we knocked out around a hundred videos in a year (that's about two a week). The early ones, like Tom Toy, have their flaws. I think Tom Toy was the only one that someone else did the form, but I can't remember for sure. I think in his Lian Bu video he did it in tandem with a student - one of our members here, in fact, Gene's first (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=10641) (BTW, she goes by that moniker because she was one of our first got qi girl (http://store.martialartsmart.net/tshirgotqi99.html), not because what she probably wanted you to think). As for the splicing, you'll see that throughout his series. Again, it was another debated topic in production, but Sifu Lam's take on it was that he preferred his execution of particular sections of several renditions of the form. Basically, he did the form several times, then sat down and watched them and said which sections he preferred. Sometimes he went back for sections. But I've seen a lot of instructional videos - it's my job - and to have splicing in form rendition is not at all uncommon. In fact, it's sort of the opposite nowadays. To have the form done in one shot is exceptional.

I'll argue that Sifu Wing Lam's Tom Toy is the best video on that form out so far. It gives multiple angles, in depth descriptions, lyrics, and applications. i personally put a lot of work into developing that script into something unprecedented. Sure, it's imperfect. It was an early video for a company that was crossing over from amateur to professional. Excepting the big MA video production companies, ALL MA VIDEOS ARE AMATEUR MADE. Until you have 50-100 videos under your belt, your still amateur, I'd say. But as for the quality of this particular video, what other Tom Toy videos compare for content?

[hasayfu]

Si-hing, your forum fu never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks for the historical too.

[gwa sow]

if it isn't to rude of me to ask, what did you change for the iron body/palm videos?

[GeneChing]

hasayfu: Thanks for the props. Next time, jump in. Don't just be the shidi in the corner applauding as the shixiong claens up the challengers. There's enough room for you to stick a boot in yourself. ;)

gwa sow: For Iron Palm, the big modification is that in GM Ku Yu Cheong's (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=157) original method, you used a crane beak strike as the last of the four. Sifu Lam felt that had two problems - 1. that it displaced the beans or balls in the bag in such a way that eventually you'd have to break pattern and fluff you bag, if you will and 2. it messed up your fingernails. So he changed it, spreading the fingers. Arguable, BSL never uses an open finger strike like that, but Sifu Lam felt it transfered to the crane beak attack well enough, and that is the way he teaches it at his school.

As for Iron Body, the system on the video was completely different that the BSL Iron Body. There was no way to teach BSL Iron Body over video, so Sifu Lam constructed something completely new based on his research.

[Sow Choy]

Wing Lam's Tiger Crane...

I thought this video was pretty good... He did the form nice and the section by section was good from 2 angles... i liked seeing his students in there also to see another persons movements...

I am not a Hung Gar player so Couldn't judge the form other than he had good movement...

I remember seeing one of his BSL videos, pretty good also... But my favorite is when he is beating up on poor Gene... lol!!! I think it was the Chin Na video...

Only one complaint...

That music in the tiger crane video can make a man insane...

Sounds like Chinese clown music...

I don't think that was your choice Gene....

or was it? :p

:cool: Joe

[GeneChing]

Ahhh, the music. Yeah, that was another point of contention. Most of it came from some odd Chinese sources which were considered by the company to be free access. I've always had issues with music tracks on videos. Sow Choy, you can mix it up yourself (DJ Handsome Joe, eh?) but most companies either steal it or purchase it. TC Media purchased a bunch of music for our videos - there are actually vendors who specialize in this sort of background music. But to me, it all sounds like bad porn music. Is that better than Chinese clown music? At least it's paid for.

I'm working on a video project now where I've hired a musician to do something special for me. It should be really fun, but I don't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet, so keep your ears open...

As for those Chin Na videos, those really sucked for me. We shot those in the dead of winter. Sifu Lam's school was a converted ice rink back then, so it was freakin' freezing. If you look really closely, sometimes you can see the fog from our breath. Me and Chet were the fall guys and we had to stand around in our t-shirts and KF pants in the cold, taking turns while Sifu Lam poked us in unpleasant places. I remember thinking that I had made a serious wrong turn in my life to have to do that to earn my living. On the up-side, if you check out the training videos, you'll not only see some of my original artwork (I did all the "Chinese style" monk training paintings) you'll also see me doing three-finger push-ups, clapping in between. I could even do two-fingers with a clap then, but it was so cold for those shoots that I thought my fingers were going to snap off. Nowadays, with my ever-expanding qi belly, I'm luck when I can do push ups at all ;)

[David Jamieson]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I see a real market for musical Chinese clown porn.

I think it would be a hit in the art houses!

[Sow Choy]

Kung Lek,

you know most western male martial artists have yellow fever... I am actually thinking of making a Chinese phrase book to sell at our school. So many new students wish to learn, and so many come in with the waiter black jacket with the white buttons in the hot weather of Florida... Ha ha ha!!!

Joe


I think Gene knows that, alot of asian "Got Qi" girls in the mag... Man, they even framed me once with a picture talking to Margie and Judy with a quote "Joe Keit and the Got Qi girls... I still get picked on for that... My sifu likes to call me "Handsome Joe", hahaha, much better than ugly kid joe I must say...

:P

[David Jamieson]

I am actually thinking of making a Chinese phrase book to sell at our school.

It would be really interesting if you made the phrase book work like the one from the monty python skit, wherein all the phrases were lewd and suggestive. :p

you know, just to give them a chance to use their fu. heh heh

"my neeples explode with desire"

[GeneChing]

The bible of Mandarin street language, Outrageous Chinese (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0835125327/002-5499537-4223226?v=glance), has been around for years. Y'all should check it out instead of chui niu bi :eek: :eek:

And Joe, that pic caught the *real* handsome joe kung fu style better than any other pic we have ever taken of you, including the posed 'sow choy' shot I just took this year in latest issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=34082). ;)

[hasayfu]

Hey, I like that clown music. Then again, I don't watch the videos much...

I remember I used to watch a bunch of the "previews" and that music would get stuck in my head. Aaargh.

I like the porn analogy. Now if you ever hear the clown music you'll think Wing Lam Kung Fu. LOL

As for Gene's marketing strategy... Sex sells. 'nuff said. I remember his early "pushes" for the WLE catalog.

[xingyiman]

I know that this is probably the wrong forum for this question but can anyone give an opinion on Wing Lam's Xingyi videos???

[phantom]

Xingyiman, I asked about recommendations for Hebei style Hsing-I videos on the internal forum some time ago, and some people recommended Wing Lam's to me. They said while he does sun style hsing-I, it is very similiar to Hebei style, and watching the videos makes you feel like you are actually in his class learning them. I hope that helped. Peace.:D