MMA vs a gun

[rogue]

Street encounter. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137310,00.html)

[tug]

Agreed. Not recommended, but if I had skills like that, I would definitely consider it.

That being said, how many of you here would feel confident enough in exactly this situation, with exactly the same parameters, and exactly the same outcome.

Not trying to find out what style/art would be the best in this situation, just want to hear from real MAists.

AGAIN - SPECIFICALLY THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE.

Thank you in advance.

Peace to you all.

[Chang Style Novice]

mmm...radishes...

Glad he's ok, but it could easily have been otherwise. And he knows it, too.

[norther practitioner]

Yeah, I'd prob. just slide my wallet over to him unless he pointed the gun at me freakin' out or something.

[rogue]

From what I can tell I think he did everything close to what is correct for the situation.


Stickup Man Smacked Down by Customers

Tuesday, November 02, 2004

An alleged restaurant holdup man found tougher customers than he'd bargained for, according to police in Vancouver, Wash.

Russell R. Rogers, 64, walked into Elmer's Restaurant (search) in the Portland, Ore., suburb at about 2 p.m. Oct. 24, brandishing a gun and demanding money, customers and staffers told the Longview, Wash., Daily News.

Enjoying a late Sunday brunch at the restaurant were "extreme fighting" pro Benji Radach (search), 25, and his sparring partners, Dennis Hallman, 28, along with two women.

As other customers ducked under tables or ran out the doors, and the cashier started to hand over money, Radach and Hallman snuck up behind Rogers.

"I kind of went over it in my mind, and walked over there," Radach told the newspaper.

Rogers looked to his left and shouted out that he had a gun. Radach came up behind on the right, grabbed Rogers with a wrist lock and got the pistol out of the gunman's hand.

Radach then forced Rogers' hands back behind him and pushed him face-first to the ground as Hallman frisked him for more weapons. Radach then knocked Rogers out with a blow to the head.

Police booked Rogers for first-degree robbery.

"You see it in movies and you go over it in your mind," Radach later said, "but you never deal with it in real life."

Radach is an expert in Pankration (search), an ancient Greek combination of boxing, kickboxing and wrestling. Also known as "The Razor," he has a 23-3 record in freestyle wrestling and Ultimate Fighting.

"I just know that I've been training for a long time and more than most people," said the 6-foot, 185-pound Radach. "Especially more than someone who's a crook and probably doesn't train."

He later admitted that his decision to take on an armed man was kind of "stupid."

"All he had to do was to turn to his right and he could have shot me," Radach told the Daily News. "But for some reason I felt I could do it. I saw the way [he was looking] and I felt that if I could just get his gun, I could get him to the ground."

His father agreed.

"I should be proud, but the things that goes through a parent's mind," said Kim Radach. "That guy could have turned around and [Benji] could have been bleeding or dead on the ground."

Lorrie Whitlow, the restaurant manager, said the heroes' brunch was on the house, but also had her doubts about future customer heroics.

"I wouldn't recommend that anyone do that," Whitlow said. "But this time, it was a positive result."

[tug]

Did you read the article, NP? The guy admits it wasn't the smartest thing to do, but if you're a student of human nature, as I am, maybe one can (hopefully) have enough time to size up the criminal/situation (like a good cop), in order to put into action a solution that hurts a lot but doesn't kill or maim, and resolves said conflict.

OTOH, I am with you - no solution? Drop your ba!!s and RUN.

[Chang Style Novice]

Looking over that again, it's a guy with a gun - but he's 64 y.o. and he's got his back to me.

I might risk it in that case. Get a two-on-one on the hand with the gun, point it straight up, then kick his feet out from under.

Maybe.

[David Jamieson]

yeah...was gonna comment on the 64 yr old thing.

tackle the bag of dust with the gun would be the likely scenario for a lot of folks I think. :p

[rogue]

A guns a gun.

[Shaolinlueb]

they beat up a 64 year old? :hehe:

but good job in saving people. that could have went different though.

[David Jamieson]

A guns a gun.

Correct, it is a device and not a behaviour. :p

[Ray Pina]

I'm sure it didn't hurt that the guy was 64 years old.

Still a brave thing to do. I often go over scenarios like that in my mind as well, trying to determine when I should act (if the guy seems reckless and dangerous) or stay put (professional who just wants to get out clean and fast).

[Dark Knight]

I compete in IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association www.idpa.com ) its a pistol competition that is simulated "real world" self-defense scenarios. Most people can draw and fire three rounds in under 2.5 seconds. (A little training but not much)

I know this is different, especially a 65 year old guy. but if you are faced with a gun situation, if they are serious about shooting you be careful.

[EarthDragon]

Went to an aikido demo put on by a USMC special forces guy who is currently an Erie county sherriff and he was teaching gun disarming techniques and asked how our school does it.. i looked at him, then put both my hands in the air......

The heroics of the guy was great but ask yourself...... he was interested in robbing the resturant's money, do I risk my life?

If would be different if he was pointing it at my wife or kids then theres no question.

But if I'm in a bank and someone want's to rob insured money.......... go ahead, not going to die for it, plus the bank woul'nt give me a loan...... again go ahead

[tug]

Agreed on all points.

First, a gun IS a gun, and no matter what anyone says, if someone wants to shoot you, they will.

Also, every situation is different, which is why I asked the question - what would you do? Which led me to ponder about knowledge of human nature and how that must come into play in our everyday lives. Even something as simple as walking down the sidewalk on a collision course with someone walking towards you - what do you do? Do you wait to see which way they are going to turn to get out of your way, or do you simply turn yourself out of the way before it even becomes an issue?

[tug]

:cool: