AT and IT

[yellowpikachu]

What Wing Chun system is?




While observing the contents in Chinese martial arts.

Two general model types naturally comes up.

1, the Approximation model Tye or AT

2, the Iterative model Type or IT



The approximation model type, AT, is the type of model that approximate the reality at a certain period of time.

such as in the chinese medicine where the ancestors due to thier experience creating a formula for the treatment of high blood pressure. Probably, it also comes with a supplement formula to do some adjustment for different condition. so the successor of the formula has only to remember the RX.

Such as in CMA, this Kiu Sau is for a particular application etc

This type of model is similar to result formula produce by the present day Design by experiments method and so that the factory operators knows what to do adjusting the process to achive result.


The iterative model type, IT, is the type of model that keep adaptively iterate to fit the reality.

such as in the chinese medicine where the ancestors presenting the reason on of how they comes up with all the formulas and let the successor be able to create new formulas which is different from the old formulas to adapt to the changing living condition of era and location and tribe.

Such as in CMA, this is awareness . strike with your awareness of the situation, nothing fix..etc

This type of model is similar to the model of the business man who keep studying market and keep iterating thier business model to fit what is needed to run the company. See, Market is not a fix stuffs.



Furthermore,

both IT and AT localized evolve.

The IT localized evolve such as the business man studying the market condition, the mission of the company, the structure of the company and keep iterating adaptively for the grow.


The AT localization evolve such as the Chinese Medicine doctor starts importing and mix asprine or tylenor into thier RX.




So, what is Wing Chun for you?

[yellowpikachu]

As for me, in my lineage alone there are people believe in both type of model.

There are those who up to today still believing in secret sets which is going to make their kungfu x 10000 over night --- if only if one can truly trully trully get the most original form of the set and trully trully understand the details of the set. has to be perfectly original, ancestors's every words has to be taken seriously literally.


There are those believe in Yik Kam's Kuen Kuit is saying go with the natural and not attach to a single thing when it is no longer useful but Comes recieve, goes send, dis-engage rush in. Breaking the center.... following the nature of the Qi flow sensing....master the awareness, living in Now, and keep grow with the transparent flow of nature .



Nothing is good or bad. Just different.

[taltos]

I think it is a little of both.

It has to acknowledge the reality of our environment (skeletal strength, gravity, etc), but at the same time it has to be flexible enought for individual expression (differences in reach, sensitivity, natural abilities).

I don't think WC makes you the BEST FIGHTER. I think WC gives you the tools to be the BEST FIGHTER YOU CAN BE (if you are willing to put in the time and effort).

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
I think it is a little of both.

It has to acknowledge the reality of our environment (skeletal strength, gravity, etc), but at the same time it has to be flexible enought for individual expression (differences in reach, sensitivity, natural abilities).

I don't think WC makes you the BEST FIGHTER. I think WC gives you the tools to be the BEST FIGHTER YOU CAN BE (if you are willing to put in the time and effort).

-Levi


between black and white there are rain bow colors.


how the tool placement, maintain, and develop is the scop of AT and IT. and working in the Research LAb will not be the same with work in the factory production control.

Say a shock power, obviously, one can say " I did" it and I can show you, but how? if the how is not totally or atleast in the first order understood and very very clear.
That stuffs is either non reproducable, or non transfer-able, or has strong dependency on a certain parameter or condition which was not known. That explain why art is losing after time because once one reproduce certain AT stuffs formula. one stop there without continous on to examine the phenomenon.

Thus, is it AT or IT that is a challenge for the one works in the reserach lab. One phenomenon I interestingly find out is that lots of people, before become a sifu is an IT main and AT subordinate. But after become a sifu, they become an AT --- starts those my sifu said , yours doesnt work mine work...stuffs unconsciously.

I call this the 3rd Chakra tendency syndrom --- unconsciously to protect to prove the sifu title. An AT trap.

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
between black and white there are rain bow colors.

That stuffs is either non reproducable or has strong dependency on a certain parameter or condition.

One phenomenon I interestingly find out is that lots of people, before become a sifu is an IT. But after become a sifu, they become an AT.

I agree with all three of these statements in their most basic.

First, there are certainly a lot of different gradients between extremes. This is true of everything.

Second, I agree that sometimes things aren't reproducable (this is usually individual expression - I am not my Sifu and I cannot express my WC exactly as he does - nor would I want to, since I am not him). And I agree that things are dependent. However, I think that is not a neagative or a fault if it is kept in check. If it is dependent upon things that are shared by all parties involved, then it's not only good, but absolutely necessary.

An example: I might be taller or slower or stronger than my opponent, so my art should not be dependent upon height or speed or strength. However, both I and anyone I fight is subject to the rules of inertia, earth's gravity, the limits of our human skeletal structure, and the confines of three dimensional space. So an art dependent on those conditions (power generation, gravity, skeletal leverage, and a three dimensional world existing temporally - a.k.a. time, space, and energy along with human skeletal structures) is a good basis for an art.

That's what works very well for me.

I also agree that many Sifu's get lost in their egos and try to create carbon copies of themselves. The problem with that is that a copy is never as good as the original.

Using your vocabulary, I would say that one should teach AT and one should express IT. By this I mean express the art the way that your body expresses the art, but teach the art without your personal expression.

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos

Using your vocabulary, I would say that one should teach AT and one should express IT. By this I mean express the art the way that your body expresses the art, but teach the art without your personal expression.




it is similar to a high tech company. The CEO has to be IT but then one needs AT to deal with manufacturing.


But then if the product director is an IT more then an AT the company is going to run into big issue.


The lineage holder is great to be IT but then usually IT runs off to do thier research and AT takes place.


I think this AT and IT can be a good tools for Wing Chun research because the story tell in AT often is not the what it is in IT.

[taltos]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
the story tell in AT often is not the what it is in IT.

I agree 100%.

-Levi

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by taltos
I agree 100%.

-Levi



which lineage holder willing to tell the truth?