Has anybody ever studied both William Cheung's Wing chun and Emin Boztepe's Wing Tsun?

[phantom]

A friend of mine is interested in learning both styles, one at a time. However, I have heard that there is a rivalry between these two styles. So would a sifu of one of these styles refuse to teach someone who already knows the other style? Thanks in advance.

[anerlich]

Cheung and Boztepe used to hate each other, maybe still do, over an incident that happened 15 years ago.

I wouldn't imagine a teacher of either lineage would make a big deal of a student's previous training unless the student made a big deal of it.

Why is "your friend" interested in this training strategy, assuming he is not an "imaginary friend"? And why can't he ask the question himself rather than get you to do it?

Ab Man

"Everyone is whining to sifu behind my back that I am too rough for the class, but I think I am good for them." - Spinning Backfist in usual "the universe revolves around me" mode

[jesper]

Why would he train in both ?
Choose a style for your liking and stich with that, unless later you find something more suitable.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I did the majority of my training in Leung Tings Wing Tsun system. My training was in Germany under Keith Kernsprecht and then continued in America under Allan Fong. Allan went with Leung Ting to introduce WT to Germany. I have met Emin several years ago. I never trained with Emin after he came to America but I feel his foundation and mine would be comparable since we trained under the same people originally, at least the same system :)

I have also had the opportunity to train for a short time under a former student of William Cheung. I noticed several differences betwen the two systems. Most noticible was footwork differences. However, the forms are slightly different as well. One thing I noticed from the person showing me William Cheungs version was that it involved a lot more stepping and also strikes to various points as well. However, I only trained with him for a short time and thus would defer to someone with more experience in William Cheungs method. In WT I had several years of training and was a certified instructor.

As to why study both: why not? It gives you another perspective on an art from the same source. Both people are of the Yip Man lineage so the basic concepts are similiar if not exactly the same. The more you are exposed to, the better your grasp of the system as a whole. The important thing is to gain a firm foundation in one method before attempting to learn another. You will find differences in concepts and in some applicaitons but, if you understand your base system/method you can incorporate these modifications into your own system. My original goal was to train in three different Wing Chun systems; Augustine Fong/Leung Ting/William Cheung.
My first "official" Sifu was of the Augustine Fong lineage, then Leung tings lineage and a short time with someone of William Chuengs lineage. Each has given me something to add to MY Wing Chun without violating the principles of my base system. Again, once you have a firm foundation there is nothing wrong with exploring other lineages. Of course, if you find something that works well for you and you like then that should be the one you pick ;)

Peace,

Dave

[CLOUD ONE]

Sihing,
Which one is more like your style?

[Sihing73]

Hello CLOUD ONE,

After a bit of searching I have chosen to fully embrace the methods as taught by Sifu Chung Kwok Chow of New York City.

I have known Sifu Chow for about 10 years or a little longer. We have not always agreed but I like his teaching method and his willingness to explore new methods.

Out of the three lineages I mentioned, Augustine Fong, Leung Ting, William Cheung, I would have to say my preference would be more towards Augustine Fong. However, the majority of my training was under Leung Tings method so many of my "automatic" responses come from that lineage. Of course, Sifu Chow and I are working on this
:D

The biggest danger to trying to learn different methods is in the incorporation of the various methods. For example, my hands are quite good but Sifu Chow can consitently destroy my structure with his footwork. Of course, I also need to change many of my hand movements as well :mad:
Still, this is my personal preference and what suites me best. One good thing is that when I teach I can show a variety of methods and explain the instances when each would be of benefit. My students, by being exposed to other ways of doing things have a deeper, I hope :rolleyes: , understanding of the concept involved in each movement. I can also explain why the foundation is so important as it is this that you build on when you explore other methods. A good foundation will allow you to bring in other methods a poor foundation will not.

Peace,

Dave

[phantom]

Abman, my friend has videos on both styles, and he likes what he has seen of both. As to why he cannot ask this question himself, he does not feel comfortable with the idea of talking with strangers on the internet. Maybe he is paranoid, but that is the way he is. Peace. :D

[durian]

sihing73, based on your diverse background, I'm
curious what you choose to pass on to your own
students?

[Sihing73]

Hello Durian ,

you ask an interesting question about what I "choose" to pass on. To be honest I am not that sure I really have anything to pass on to anyone as I am still learning. I used to teach and then stopped because I was not satisifed with my level of skill. I currently train at a Karate School where almost all of my students are black belt and above. The head instructor is a 5th dan and there are several 3rd dans there as well. I only resumed teaching due to the fact that my Sifu was unable to train them and he suggested me. It offers me an opportunity to make enough money to cover the cost of my own training. It also allows me to explore and really examine the things I do. When you need to explain things in a concise manner it can really open you mind and allow you to further grasp things you di not think about before.

As to specifics that I pass on; I will show several different methods of doing each technique and explain the pros and cons of each. I will encourage each student to explore all of the options and then practice the method which best suites them. For example, stance turning. I will show how to turn on the balls, the heels and the center of the foot. I will explain why I would do each one. I then have the student practice each of the methods and tell me what they think. I will show them why I may do something a particular way but will encourage them to not simply mimic me but to try and grasp the best way for their body and needs. I can do the same with various other techniques as well, Taun is always a good example. I will show them a flat Taun, bent wrist etc. I will show them how to receive and how to use Taun to meet and disperse or smother. In each of these I stress that it is not them that does the movement, they react to what energy is given to them. However, by understanding the nature of the Taun they can react without restricting themselves either conciously or sub-consciously.

I am not sure if this answers your question but it should give some idea of my methods. I try to guide the student to thier own method of Wing Chun. I try not to say you should or should not do something but instead show the ramifications of a certain method and let the student decide. I want them to think things through and try to grasp not the movement but the concept behind the movement. By understanding the variety available my students will know what to do if someone uses 0/100 weighting, 50/50 or whatever. At least they will have encountered it in traing and it will not be completely new.

Peace,

Dave

[dzu]

Each of us is only capable of passing on our own WC. You can preserve the choreography and the training methods, but these alone are not what make the art alive. Only William Cheung and Emin Boztepe can do William Cheung style and Emin Boztepe style.

Dzu