Good Mook Jong

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey there everyone,
Since I'm moving into my new place at the end of the month I'm going to be in the markey now for a mook jong.
If anyone can give me advice on buying one or where to get good one I'd appreciate it.
For example is it better to have the body made of a solid piece of wood or a bunch of boards glued together and then rounded on a lathe.

Anyways, any links/advice/where to stay away from would be awesome.

Thanks

J

[kj]

We recently got a new jong from Carina Cirrincione of Raven Studios (www.little-raven.com) . It is phenomenal, and the price can hardly be beat, especially given her incredible workmanship.

We asked her to make the dummy to our specs instead of her standard (being fussy types), and she came through like a charm. She was also a joy to work with. I cannot recommend her work highly enough.

I **highly** recommend a laminated dummy. Provided the lamination and dummy finish is of a high quality and surface smoothed (as Carina's are), there is no advantage to a solid dummy other than the romanticism of it. There are distinct disadvantages of a solid wooden body though - either due to cracking, cost, or both. Carina's models are indeed laminated, and her standard material is hard/rock maple (also our preferred material).

IME. Whatever your solution, good luck with it.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Vajramusti]

Carina's craft-womanship is impeccable on the picking of the woods, the right strong long lasting lamination, the shaping and the fitting. She is very experienced in her work and she is a dedicated and skillful wing chun person as well. And she makes good stands- as well as other martial equipment.
And she is a professional as far as following through on agreed upon delivery time.

[Jeff Bussey]

Thanks guys,
I was just at the site you posted.
So do either of you have the unistand?
If you do, what do you think about it? Stability wise as well as versus the give you get from the stands with the slats of wood
Thanks for the link:)

J

[Vajramusti]

She builds a good unistand but the slats are my preference.
Issue of how much space you have for the dummy.

[kj]

We also use slats and larger supporting frame. As Joy alluded, I too would only be interested in a uniframe if space was the limiting factor. At least the dummy would be usable, but it would not have the right kind of "play" for our work.

Regards,
- kj

[couch]

Is the major advantage of having a laminated dummy so that it doesn't crack after shipping?

Thanks,
Couch

[kj]

Originally posted by couch
Is the major advantage of having a laminated dummy so that it doesn't crack after shipping?

Thanks,
Couch

Yes. The durability of quality wood lamination versus large solid pieces is exponential. Professional woodworkers will tell you the same.

"Most" though not 100% of solid body dummies will eventually crack. I know of no major advantages to a solid wooden body, though some people still hold rabidly to a sense of tradition about it.

Regards,
- kj

[Vajramusti]

A dummy size chunk of wood can have differential rates of drying from the exterior to the core. Pieces used for lamination does not face the same problem.

I have seen many solid wood dummies that are cracked. Specially with the disappearnce of old good teak- some of the other pseudo teaks and other woods can cause cracking problems.

But you still have to "oil" the dummies ever so often.

[KPM]

I built my own dummy about 15 years ago. I think the dummies mentioned here are made in a similar fashion. I glued together boards so the trunk was in the shape of an octagon and then rounded it off with a drawknife. I didn't have much of a budget, so I used quality pine boards rather than a hardwood. I have had no problems through the years with my dummy. I post only to point out that if Carina is using a similar construction method, is using quality hardwood, and is an experienced woodworker (which I am not!), then you should have absolutely no problems with her dummies. There are no advantages that I can see of a solid trunk dummy over one made in this fashion. The hollow trunk is still plenty heavy! Other than the cracking that has already been mentioned, another disadvantage of a solid trunk dummy is cost. There is an awful lot of expensive hardwood tied up in a solid trunk dummy. Less wood and therefore less expense is involved in a laminated/hollow trunk.

Keith

[dfl]

Carina's dummy is laminated solid wood, not hollow.

[Jeff Bussey]

Thanks guys for all of your posts :)
It was another busy weekend for me so I couldn't get back to you sooner.
You guys gave me a lot to think about.
I'm probabaly goping to have a stand with the slats as to that's what I'm used to at my school, and I'll stay away from solid jongs because my resources are limited plus if there's a tendency for them to split 'forget about it'

Thanks guys.

J

[couch]

Here's a question dummy related...

Has anyone moved a dummy across the coasts?

I live in Western Canada and think about moving a dummy to Eastern Canada...much higher humidity, etc. I'm sure if it was laminated...I mighten not have any problems...

Any ideas, experiences?

Thanks,
Couch

[Vajramusti]

Couch-if its a well made dummy- moving from drier to more humid clime= should do fine- provided you dont keave it exposed to rain and snow.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by couch
I live in Western Canada and think about moving a dummy to Eastern Canada...much higher humidity, etc. Hey Couch,
Where abouts in Eastern Canada?

[couch]

Matrix:

I'm currently going to school and hope to finish in a few years and move to Halifax/Dartmouth area.

That's the dream!

Whereabouts are you?

[YongChun]

In 1982 I got a Teak Dummy made in Hong Kong. It was also laminated. Unless you look carefully that isn't obvious. So far there is not a single crack. The support beams were also made of Teak and the leg was a natural tree branch. I have mounted that in all kinds of different ways depending on whether it was put into a corner or facing a cement wall or facing a plaster wall. Each needed a different engineering idea for mounting.

Ray

[IronFist]

If you're not obsessed with being a traditionalist, a PVC bodied dummy is about 1/3 the cost to buy, and even less to make.

Note that I said PVC bodied. The limbs and stand and stuff should still be wood.

8" diameter PVC pipe has an outter diameter of 8.675" which is the ideal size for a wooden dummy body. It won't chip, crack, dry, or rot, like some woods can.

Some people will tell you it's not authentic enough, but that's like arguing over a nylon punching bag vs. a leather one. Your body doesn't care what it's hitting. It's still plenty hard.

Advantages of a PVC body:
1. Cheaper
2. Easier to cut holes in (if you're making it yourself)
3. Isn't vulnerable to environment conditions

Disadvantages of a PVC body:
1. It's significantly lighter than wood (35-40lbs for a PVC body vs. 115lbs for a wooden one). This can be sort of compensated for by adding weight to the base, etc.
2. It's not wooden colored.

Other than that tho, it's a cylinder so it's the same exact shape as wood. A couple companies make PVC bodied dummies with wooden limbs and stands. Great Lion comes to mind.

Or you could make your own like I did when I was practicing Wing Chun. I had a company make the limbs and then I made the body out of PVC and the stand out of wood. The total cost was around $330 for EVERYTHING. Most companies charge you that much for just the stand. Here's a pic of the one I made: Pic (http://www.ultimatebattles.com/ebay/dummy4-1-copyright.jpg). (Shinmen is my eBay name. I had to put that on there because there's a lot of people on eBay that like to steal your stuff and try to sell it as their own). Check the link in my sig for info on my book about how to make your own.

Above all, tho, get one that you are comfortable with and that conforms to the correct proportions, including round, tapered arms (some crappy dummies have square arms... ouch), arms that are pretty much the same height (some dummies have significant differences in arm height because they didn't offset the peg that goes through the body), etc. Shop around and do your research, and read up on my thread called How to tell if a wooden dummy is crap (http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=14074). :D

[Matrix]

Originally posted by couch
I'm currently going to school and hope to finish in a few years and move to Halifax/Dartmouth area. Couch,
I'm in Ottawa.
Halifax is one of the best places to be in the East coast, IMO.
Nice Dream. :)

[Jeff Bussey]

Ironfist,
Thanks for the info.
:)
Anyone else with a PVC dummy experience?
I don't mind cheap at all, but not at the expense of the feel of the dummy when going through the form.
If you add weights or sand or whatever to the body, wouldn't the distribution of the weight (at the bottom) give you a different feel?
Really curious.

J

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Bill,
Sorry I didn't get a real chance to talk with you the other night.
It's good to put a face with the name though.
I'm sure there'll be a next time
:)

J

[Matrix]

Jeff,

I just happened to be in the neighborhood, and wanted to check out what you guys were up to. Sorry I had to leave early. I had a few time senstive things to do.

And yes, there will definitely be a next time. :cool:

[dfl]

Originally posted by Jeff Bussey
Anyone else with a PVC dummy experience?
I don't mind cheap at all, but not at the expense of the feel of the dummy when going through the form.
If you add weights or sand or whatever to the body, wouldn't the distribution of the weight (at the bottom) give you a different feel?

I have a Carina-made (http://www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/Jong.html#anchor765956) PVC dummy (made to my specs) partly because I have no indoor space for it. IMHO, there are 2 drawbacks to a stock PVC dummy vs a wooden one (assuming both are made to the same specs), both because it's hollow:
1. it's too light
2. the low fundamental modes tend to get excited when you hit the PVC body, making it vibrate sort of like a woodwind instrument
Both problems are alleviated when you add weight to strategic locations. The weight has to be distributed along the length of the body and not just concentrated at the bottom, otherwise it will be unbalanced (bottom heavy).
With proper tuning (pun intentional), a PVC dummy can be made to feel like a good wooden dummy (90+%) at less than half the cost (plus you save a few trees). But aesthetically, it won't look like a fine piece of furniture, whereas a well-made wooden dummy would.

[IronFist]

My PVC dummy never made any notes, but I understand the phenomenon of which you speak.

Regardless of if you get PVC or wood, I recommend you getting some pads for the body. Full power punches to PVC or wood suck, and padding will make it hurt less. Don't spend like $25 on one of those premade pads, tho. At Wal-Mart you can get a certain kind of shelf paper that is about 1/8" thick that is a dense padding. Wrap that around the "head" of the body 2 or 3 times and you have a perfect pad. Seriously. You can rock it full power and it feels awesome. It's a very stiff pad, so it isn't all soft or anything. It feels about like hitting a good quality focus mitt. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

[funsau]

KJ,

Do you mind sharing your personalize dummy specs with me/us? I am curious as what kinda changes do people made/modified out in the WC dummy world.

-thanx !!!

[kj]

Hi funsau,

If you will PM me your email address, I'll be glad to oblige.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Vajramusti]

I would NOT put pads on the dummy.

[YongChun]

We never had any pads on the dummy either but lately I put a pad around the middle so that in our section three of the summy, we can do a low midsection punch, otherwise people were doing a low palm instead because it didn't hurt as much. According to Wang Kiu, in one of the later sections of the dummy (his section 9, double grab and kick) a low sweep with the shin against the leg was converted to a kick through the heart type of movement on the dummy because the sweep was painful. The downside is that those Wing Chun people would have had weaker shins that would get smashed up by the Thais. Don't know if any of that is true, just another story.

Ray

[VingDragon]

I've found it somewhere in net

wooden dummy comercial :) (http://www.digitaletchings.com/martialquest)

[curtis]

Nice wooden dummy comercial .:-)

although the arms are realy ugly. Do you knowwhat the body is made out of?

If you are looking to get a low cost dummy or make one your self, there are two earas to look at.

Pvc is the easiest to make.

But the SBC pole yards are about the cheapest. the pole yards are open to the public on certin days of the month. Thay sell $1.00 per every 6'. the old pine poles work just fine for dummy bodys.
If you make a stand out of 4x4, local supper hardware stores. you can make a nice dummy and stand for around $90.00 and somewhere around 6 hours of work.
C.A.G.

[VingDragon]

the dummy body from comercial is propably made from PVC (I think)

I don't like those arms, too

but if someone is looking for low cost dummy - why not?

mine dummy is beauty ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p049a2c3329443271a0cd2d6740918695/f690b46b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p34d28658bf91e3dfbf75226b115ad51e/f690b46d.jpg

[curtis]

Ha! those two pictures are realy nice. I thought I was the only one makeing those.
I call mine mimmi mook jongs. Ive been makeing that stile for around 16 years.

I will post a picture,as soon as I can figure out how too.

If you e-mail me I can send pictures that way.
curtgeorge@wowway.com

[VingDragon]

use this server to host pictures for free (http://imageshack.us) recommended and easy in use :D

[curtis]

Thanks for the info.


I just was woundering Why would anyone want to pad a dummy?

Isnt the hole idea behind a mook jong, CONTROL?

a mook jong isnt a punching bag.Why turn it into one??


ANY and all thoughts on this topic are welcome. (even if thay are WRONG!) ;-) I can always agree to dis-agree.
I would realy like to understand different schools of thought on this topic.
Thanks in Advance.