Beach fight - Side mount to gaurd

[IronFist]

This is kinda long so I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but here you guys go:

Beach fight (http://www.compfused.com/directlink/433/). Click on "Watch Video."

[SifuAbel]

Yet another sucker fight between two punks.

This reminds of a simple fact. ANY martial art is effective against the average stupid punk azz.

The blonde kid was living up to his hair color.

The other guy grabbed him and he winced immediatly. Blood in the water.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The blonde kid is a douchebag, but he in no way deserved the beating put down on him by the skilled bjj guy.

this guy is practically lynched by the bjj community online (go to any bjj forum and you'll see them trashing this guy) for bullying this kid into a fight that he didn't want to be a part of.

he got into a fight in the water.. they broke his board.. they should have let him leave.

[MoreMisfortune]

yeah theres a bunch of bjj dudes that want that dudes head, cos hes a somafabeatch

[SifuAbel]

Wow, unexpected honor comeing from the BJJ camp.

<-----Impressed.

[IronFist]

He could have arm barred him if he wanted, but I guess he just wanted to beat him down a lot.

[bigdoing]

that was an uncalled for whooping.....

I used to bodyboard and Kainoa was one of my favorite riders...

Also how the video listen one of the reasons he got bombed on was he "kept on going"....putting your hands up to gaurd against some fist falling at your head is hardly provoking anything.

[Archangel]

That was disgusting... a trained fighter beating on a kid relentlessly. I'm glad the BJJ community is after this guy; that was assault, plain and simple.

[cerebus]

Why is the attacker not in jail? The proof is now posted all over the internet that he repeatedly assaulted that kid (and NOT in self defense) and destroyed private property (the surfboard). The kid should take him to court.

And WTF is up with everyone watching it like it's a friggin' volleyball game or somethin'? I didn't see anyone trying to stop what was happening. Stupid & sad.

[SifuAbel]

Because punks are generally ass holes.

[diego]

retarded...liked the takedown tho

[Mika]

That someone taped the whole thing and then put it on the net...:rolleyes:

That no one tried to break it up...:rolleyes:

That people were cheering and laughing...:rolleyes:

That people took pictures of the kid and laughed at him while doing so...:rolleyes:

These 4 reasons give Americans a bad name around the world. I know the fcukers on the tape don't give a sh.it about that, but maybe they should. Of course, this could have happened anywhere, but it's the arrogant attitude that really stands out. It would equally dumb to judge more than a few people because of this, but when crap like that (not the actual fight, but what I just listed) happens enough times, it gets labeled.

Mind you, to me the US is a second home, but I am just saying...

Don't let this sh.it happen where you roam...

[IronFist]

Man I'm dumb, I meant side mount to mount, not side mount to guard. Too bad when you change a subject on here after people have replied it doesn't show up on the main forum. See for yourself. Look at the subject in the thread and then look at it on the forum. It will be different.

[Serpent]

What exactly qualifies as the guard? We don't use the same terminology when we grapple.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Serpent,

The guard (and all it's variants) occurs when you are lying on the ground and have an opponent between your legs.

closed guard, open guard, 1/2 guard, butterfly guard, spider guard, x guard, high guard, rubber guard, crab guard,..

[cerebus]

....life guard, captain of the guard, etc. :D

[cerebus]

So... it's where you're lying on the ground with a man between your legs, eh? Ooooookay! :D :D

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Serpent,

The guard (and all it's variants) occurs when you are lying on the ground and have an opponent between your legs.

closed guard, open guard, butterfly guard, spider guard, x guard, high guard, rubber guard, crab guard,..
OK, thanks. So, if I'm on my back and a dude is between my legs (never thought I'd type that on a public forum! :eek: ) is he in my guard?

[cerebus]

Unless you're in San Francisco, in which case he's right where he wants to be... :eek: :D

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent
OK, thanks. So, if I'm on my back and a dude is between my legs (never thought I'd type that on a public forum! :eek: ) is he in my guard?

Correct. I usually refer to the guard as "The best of the bad positions, and the worst of the good ones." It's better than any other position where you're on the bottom (mounted, side mounted, back mounted, north-south) but inferior to any top position.

[Serpent]

Cool. Cheers.

[Chang Style Novice]

FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

Yes. usually. here's the thing.. the more you & your opponent know about bjj & submission fighting the more neutral the guard will become. (Watch Fedor fight from within Nogueria's guard in Pride)

think of it this way... in sport bjj you got zero points awarded when you put someone in your guard, but when you pass someone's guard you get 3 pts. and if you can secure a dominant position you'll get even more.

being inside someone's guard is not a top position.

[Ray Pina]

I'm guessing the blond kid showed up and finally saw Pipleline wouldn't kill him, a small 2 to 3 feet and was like WOW, nobody's in the water. So what if there's a contest, I'll stay over here out of the way .... I could get away with it back home.

....
Anyway, the guy who took him down actually offered him his head. If the kid was trained or even a little bigger things could have been different.

...

Sad that it took the woman coming over for his friend to say enough, and break it up.

....
Surf trips can be hectic, hard balancing out being agressive enough to get waves and respect without stepping on toes.

The truth of the matter ism the pros, the hard core local rippers were probbaly on Jerry Lopez deck BBQ and laughing it off. It's these two kooks trying to look cool to the core guys, get some respect for themselves.

In the end, it was only 2 to 3 feet. They should have been surfing Rocky Rights or fishing.

[looking_up]

It's on sale too:

http://www.orcasurf.co.uk/acatalog/orcashop_Bodyboarding_DVDS_21.html

Check the description for the "Free your Mind" DVD.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

ST00 pretty much nailed this one. Guard and being-in-guard are pretty close to neutral; which one is preferable largely depends on the specific skills of the people involved.

[Mika]

Originally posted by looking_up
It's on sale too:

http://www.orcasurf.co.uk/acatalog/orcashop_Bodyboarding_DVDS_21.html

Check the description for the "Free your Mind" DVD.

The great, late Frank Zappa once said: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Yes. usually. here's the thing.. the more you & your opponent know about bjj & submission fighting the more neutral the guard will become. (Watch Fedor fight from within Nogueria's guard in Pride)

think of it this way... in sport bjj you got zero points awarded when you put someone in your guard, but when you pass someone's guard you get 3 pts. and if you can secure a dominant position you'll get even more.

being inside someone's guard is not a top position.
OK, I can see this is going to go on a while! Can you explain "passing the guard"? I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure.

Why do I always have terminology problems here? It happens all the time in the training forum too!

[ShaolinTiger00]

"passing the guard" simply means getting past his legs to a more advantageous position, which can be achieved in many ways. Almost all of them involving creating space, shutting down his hip movement and then moving over, under or thru(up the middle) his legs.

Ex. you and I are practicing bjj. you and I start standing and I shhot in for a takedown, you were suprised due to my masterful setup ;) , but are quickly adapting. as we got down, You grab my head and an elbow and wrap your legs around my waist.

I am now in your closed guard.

We hit the ground and I realize I'm in a bad spot. You could sweep me over and take a great position mounted over me, or you can apply submissions from where you are, or if we were striking, you could hit me.

So the pressure is one me at this point. again if striking were involved I might try to "soften you up" to aid my mission. - to pass your guard.

After some jockeying and defending, I manage to pass your guard. I quickly move to knee on chest. and look for more strikes of submissions.

or maybe I don't ! maybe you sweep me and I'm now mounted and you sink in an armlock, choke etc..

or maybe I use a knee thru escape and get back to the half guard. now you'll start to work on freeing your leg and I'll work towards putting you in a full guard or trying a sweep from here.

you can see.. many posibilites. but the strategy always remains the same.

Progress to a more dominant position. position then submission.

So maybe you can see that this is why bjj creates such an effective system. the system is never random techniques. you have specific attacks and defenses that you perform in trying to move up ther heirarchy.

[Serpent]

Cool. Thanks very much for that. Be careful with the bjj love, though. I've been enjoying your clear explanations of the terminology, but these methods are not exclusive to bjj.

Anyway, thanks again. You can have some flan.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
you can see.. many posibilites. but the strategy always remains the same.

Progress to a more dominant position. position then submission. Or sometimes you will short circuit the process and move into a leg lock.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Serpent
...but these methods are not exclusive to bjj. They pretty much were until the rest of the world was exposed to it.

[Serpent]

:rolleyes:

[Ray Pina]

What about judo? what about JJ before it got the B? What about some of the Ryus? I did some of this in Isshin-Ryu when I was a little kid back in the early 80s. We didn't call it this or that, we just did it.

[Dim Wit Mak]

Don't want to sound stupid, but how do we know this in a BJJ rogue? These grappling techniques are done in other systems too. If he is a BJJ guy, I can see why they are ****ed. As was pointed out before, the guy who had a full mount on blondie could have gone to an arm bar, put the little finger down, and broken his arm. Maybe all the watchers made him show this little bit of "mercy" when he limited it to a beating.

[MoreMisfortune]

yeah its a bjj dude, that dude
think i heard who he learned from suppose on hawai some but now i odnt remember man

[Dim Wit Mak]

Thanks MoreMisFortune.

[Din Gao]

The assailant's name is Kala Alexander. He is a local enforcer on the North Shore and was in that horrible movie Blue Crush. The guy who fought in the water, Kainoa McGee, I believe studies with Kai Garcia, a BJJ black in Hawaii (he is the guy on the jet ski). Not sure if the guy on land did as well but it looks like he knows something.

There are a couple of variations of this video. In one you can hear his buddy telling him to go for the armbar and that he would break the kid's nose if he didn't let go of his hold and take his beating.

They cover this pretty extensively on some of the grappling boards.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Or sometimes you will short circuit the process and move into a leg lock.

Hey KF don't be giving away my "dirty" tactics!

[looking_up]

"They cover this pretty extensively on some of the grappling boards."

"They" appear to be a bunch of 12 year olds - I checked out the first board that popped up on Google.

[Din Gao]

HAHAHA!!! I never said it was a government think tank. You can find it on Sherdog, Bullshido, etc.