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Mr Punch
11-09-2004, 02:20 AM
What was the first album you bought?

What was the last?

And what are your top ten desert island discs?

Becca
11-09-2004, 02:25 AM
1st- Mindnight Oil, cant' remember the full name of the album. Dust and something or other.:confused:

Last- Maroon 5's latest.

What do you mean by Desert Island discs?

Mr Punch
11-09-2004, 02:39 AM
1st: A very respectable compilation of early Bob Marley recordings called Legendary Bob Marley and the Wailers

Also in the first few were, the Sex Pistols' Never Mind the Bollocks, The ****ed's Strawberries, Siouxsie and the Banshees' Nocturne, Toots and the Maytals' In the Dark... nothing too embarassing so far. Bought my first aged 8 or 9 I guess.

The skeletons in the closet were the Billy Joel live concert I taped off the radio (tho I still maintain it was to check out my 'new' cranky second-hand tape recorder! :D ) and the Paul McCartney single Pipes of Peace or some such horror.

Last: I bought Vaughn-Williams Symphony No 6 (The Sea Symphony) and No 1 (The Lark Ascending and Variations on a Theme by Tallis) and Outkast... The Love Below and whatever the other one in the double's called.

Always... in a hurry, and these often change, so off the top of my head:

Bob Marley Exodus
Linton Kwesi Johnson Forces of Victory
Clash Combat Rock
Various Spawn Soundtrack / Romeo and Juliet Soundtrack / Blade II Soundtrack... a real toughie...
Carl Orff Carmina Burana
Snuff Corblimeygovernor...you'regoinghomeinacosmicambien ce or Stiff Little Fingers Inflammable Material prob the latter
Primal Scream Screamadelica
Fat Boy Slim Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars
The Best of the Doors
The Chemical Brothers Live at the Social
.
.
.
actually, I think the top ten may be impossible...

might have to come back and go for another provisional top ten later...

Mr Punch
11-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Becca
1st- Mindnight Oil, cant' remember the full name of the album. Dust and something or other.:confused:

Last- Maroon 5's latest.

What do you mean by Desert Island discs? What are Maroon 5? Name sounds familiar...

Desert Island Discs is a famous very very long-running show on BBC Radio 4 when some famous geezer/geezess gets asked the top ten albums they would take onto a desert island if they got stranded... so Top Ten basically... they also get asked for one favourite book (apart from the Bible/Koran/whatever for god-botherers) and one luxury item.

My book would probably have to be Lord of the Rings and the luxury item... I can't conceive of a luxury item...! Who needs luxury!?:D

Serpent
11-09-2004, 04:04 AM
1st - The Police. The one with Walking On The Moon on it, but the album name escapes me at the mo....

Last - Missy Higgins, The Sound Of White. Brilliant young Australian singer/songwriter/pianist/guitarist debut album. She's excellent, but needs more variety in her subject matter.

Top 10 - You have to be kidding! That's not something anyone should have to decide!

Becca
11-09-2004, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by Mat
What are Maroon 5? Name sounds familiar...

Desert Island Discs is a famous very very long-running show on BBC Radio 4 when some famous geezer/geezess gets asked the top ten albums they would take onto a desert island if they got stranded... so Top Ten basically... they also get asked for one favourite book (apart from the Bible/Koran/whatever for god-botherers) and one luxury item.

My book would probably have to be Lord of the Rings and the luxury item... I can't conceive of a luxury item...! Who needs luxury!?:D
maroon5 (http://www.maroon5.com/) is best known (by ay least) for thier debue, "Harder to Breath".

Like Serpie, I don't think I could confine myselve to 10 favorite albums. But I will list off some of my favorite artists/composers...

Winton Marsellis (famous clasical and jazz trumpet player as well as a composer of many great modern works including a very nice opera, which the name of escapes me at the moment), The Adrews Sisters ('Nuf said), Harry Manccini ( composer of Baby Elephant Walk, Pink Panther, Petter Gunn (aka: Spy Theme) and tones more)...

... Will add to this as I get the time...

MasterKiller
11-09-2004, 07:07 AM
First album: Thriller

Last Album: Who knows. Maybe Siouxsie and The Banshees. I don't buy albums anymore.

Favorite album: Public Enemy's "It takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back."

scotty1
11-09-2004, 07:43 AM
Top Ten I haven't got time to figure out (too indecisive) but the first was Bad by Michael Jackson and the last was either a Refused album or the latest Machine Head album.

MoreMisfortune
11-09-2004, 08:07 AM
first of all id like to say... i really do not apreciate maroon 5 and i think its mean that they removed the singers testicles when he was young so that he could sing like a wuss forever...
but im ok if other people like ok, then, just dont make me listen :)

fist: AC/DC Live

last: i cant remember, have been downloading stuff for so long... probably was O Rappa.

10 albuns? (random order aight)
Dark side o the moon
Lateralus
The Wall
and... other stuff i cnat remember now
why would i only take 10
what kinda sound system am i taking to the island anyway
how am i gonna get power for it
ha! if i was in an island with a chick she would have to reproduce with me -> no other dudes (or chicks) there and she got nowhere to run to, that would be cool, man.
i wanna take this chick from uni to the island

TaiChiBob
11-09-2004, 08:08 AM
Greetings..

First:.. whew!!.. hmmmm.. uh.. the 60s are a difficult time to remember.. i think it was Canned Heat..

Last: Music for Yoga and Other Joys..

If i were stranded on a desert island.........

Top Ten:
Dark Side of the Moon.. Pink Floyd
Best of The Doors..
Memphis Underground.. Herbie Mann
The Four Seasons.. Vivaldi
An Enchanted Evening with Kitaro
Kama Sutra: The Essentials.. (forget the title, it's profound music)
Truth.. Jeff Beck
Best of Mamas and Papas
Deja Blues.. Steve Halpern
Deep Field Image.. Red Shift Mantra

Alternates:
Twin Peaks
T Rex.. first album

and seeds, lots of seeds.. :D

Be well...

Mika
11-09-2004, 08:27 AM
Wheew!

1) Motörhead: Iron Fist (a tape, actually, my first LP (those born after 1985, never mind what an LP is :D ) Motörhead's Live at the Hammersmith)

2) Hard to say...some compilation, I guess (by AC/DC or CCR or...I don't remember). Like MK, don't buy them anymore, really...(and I am NOT saying there are alternate methods to acquire music because that would be illegal and immoral...:o )

3) You mean Top 1000? :D
From the top of my head, here's today's toppers (tomorrow the list would not be the same at all, it all depends on how you feel, too):

1. Metallica - Kill'em All (seen Cliff play!!!)
2. The Chemical Brothers - Dig Your Own Hole
3. Anthrax - Attack of the Killer B's
4. Triumph - Never Surrender
5. Frank Marino & The Mahogany Rush - all albums
6. Led Zeppelin - In Through the Outdoor (yup, I like the later material a little better)
7. Whitesnake - Saints'n Sinners (gonna go see'em next week!)
8. Rush - all albums
9. Mötley Crue - Girls, Girls, Girls
10. Edgar Winter Group - They Only Come Out at Night

That's a good questions, top albums. Had you asked for top songs, it would have been very different, especially nowadays when albums are vanishing and more is invested in to that one hit song every band so desperately (due to music companies' way of doing business today) wants.

//mika

Nick Forrer
11-09-2004, 12:11 PM
first: Dont remember: may have been bad by MJ

Last: The Libertines - eponymous

top ten: will have to think - holy bible by the manics is in there,as is siamese dream by pumpkins, maybe first suede album, all of nick drakes albums

norther practitioner
11-09-2004, 01:36 PM
First: Beastie Boys

Last: Ugly duckling

Ming Yue
11-09-2004, 02:30 PM
First: Bowie, dont remember which one

Recently: Haven't bought an album/cd in a while. I, um, aquire music through alternate methods. Got a bunch of Massive Attack not to long ago, also some Curtis Mayfield.


ok... What was the best concert you ever went to?

FuXnDajenariht
11-09-2004, 02:46 PM
Anyone know any real good jazz albums? Examples would be John Coltrane ala the title track to Ole'. Or sumthin swingin' like the Royal Crown Revue but less tongue in cheek. I dont like the downtempo Wynston Marsalis stuff.....more experimental and energetic. Hes in a word....boring as all hell.....but i guess thats 4.

A Drum N Bass mix is ideal too.......for you Brits out there if you know any.

Ming Yue
11-09-2004, 02:50 PM
getchaself some Ornette Coleman.

FuXnDajenariht
11-09-2004, 02:55 PM
shweeet. I've heard of him too. I know most jazz musicians by name but ive not heard much work. Hes the Pianist right? What album would u recommend?

rubthebuddha
11-09-2004, 03:04 PM
first: quiet riot (a big, phat record)
last: concert for george (a tribute to george harrison, with clapton, mccartney, starr, anoushka shenkar (ravi's daughter, of course), jeff lynne, tom petty, etc.
always: pearl jam's ten

Chang Style Novice
11-09-2004, 03:30 PM
First - embarassingly enough, John Cougar Mellencamp's "Scarecrow"

Last - Azeem "Show Business"

Top ten - there's no way I could narrow it down that much. I have something close to 3,000.

I'm a huge Ornette Coleman fan, myself, and will be seeing him live this Sunday. I bet I have 30 albums by the dude, maybe more. Anyway, he's best known as an alto saxophonist, but also dabbles in trumpet and violin. The essential album to have by him is "The Shape of Jazz to Come." The track "Lonely Woman" is one of the most haunting and beautiful melodies known to man.

What's playing right now: Lootpack, "Soundpieces, The Antidote"

FuXnDajenariht
11-09-2004, 03:35 PM
shoot....i shoulda saw him live when he came to new york...twice even. i had no motivation tho...or funds for that matter but ill definitely check him out now. that and lamb of god or morbid angel when they come back around. i missed them 3 times! aaaggghh!

joedoe
11-09-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Becca
1st- Mindnight Oil, cant' remember the full name of the album. Dust and something or other.:confused:
...


Diesel & Dust?

I can't remember my first, but I think it was Springsteen's Born in the USA.

The last one was probably a John Williamson or John Denver album (give me a break, I needed a few pieces for my wedding).

Chang Style Novice
11-09-2004, 03:39 PM
Ornette lives in NYC, so you'll have a better chance to see him again there than I will here.

tug
11-09-2004, 04:13 PM
ok... What was the best concert you ever went to? (MY)


Have to get this off my chest -

Triple bill - Faster Pu$$ycat opened for Poison who opened for Motley Crue = awesome!!

Or maybe it was Ozzy's tour when Zakk Wylde was playing for him (can't remember the name of the tour or the album right now)




To quote Sgt. Powell from Die Hard "In my youth, man, in my youth"

Serpent
11-09-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by joedoe
The last one was probably a John Williamson or John Denver album (give me a break, I needed a few pieces for my wedding).
Why did you want pieces of sh!t for your wedding!?

joedoe
11-09-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Why did you want pieces of sh!t for your wedding!?

Well, you know ... chicks :D

Serpent
11-09-2004, 05:13 PM
Yes, of course.

When one of my mates got married they left the church to the Star Wars theme tune, which I thought was some quality work!

joedoe
11-09-2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Yes, of course.

When one of my mates got married they left the church to the Star Wars theme tune, which I thought was some quality work!

Well, we weren't that tacky. We had a harpist play, and the entrance theme was a piece from 'The Mission', and left the church to Holst's 'Jupiter' (used as the rugby union theme). We cut the cake to John Denver's Annie's Song, and left the reception to the various national themes for the rugby teams (as my wife and I are mad rugby fans, and support opposing teams - hence the John Williamson, for Waltzing Matilda).

My wife was a mad Star Wars fan, but we would not have used the music for the wedding :).

Serpent
11-09-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by joedoe
Well, we weren't that tacky.
I won't let you talk that way about Star Wars!

You have offended me, you have offended my family and you have offended the Shaolin Temple!

Prepare to defend yourself!

:mad:

joedoe
11-09-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
I won't let you talk that way about Star Wars!

You have offended me, you have offended my family and you have offended the Shaolin Temple!

Prepare to defend yourself!

:mad:

Hey man, I love Star Wars too (the original movies more than the more recent ones). I just think that using the music for a wedding might be a tad inappropriate :).

But if you want to fight, then bring it on :D

Serpent
11-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Well, you'll have to come to me, as I made the challenge and it's too far to travel. And it'll have to be Friday, but only if there is cloud cover. I'll be by the pond.

Ming Yue
11-09-2004, 06:42 PM
Shape of Jazz to Come is a must have. Somehow, to me, his work sounds like people talking, different timbres, different tempos. I'd love the chance to see him live...

I have lots of good concerts: Way back when, Red hot chili peppers in San francisco in front of maybe 30 people in a bar, Tom Waits, also in SF, alone on the stage with a full orchestra in the pit, Flipper opened for Black Flag and two guys from the DKs showed up and jammed (also in SF), an AC/DC show so good I can't even remember where it was...

Oh, and I saw Spinal Tap live. Probably the most hilarious show I've ever seen.
:D

joedoe
11-09-2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Well, you'll have to come to me, as I made the challenge and it's too far to travel. And it'll have to be Friday, but only if there is cloud cover. I'll be by the pond.

Well, I can only fight on Saturdays in the pond. And it has to be raining.

Serpent
11-09-2004, 07:10 PM
OK. I'll go by on an overcast Friday and throw some techniques into the pond. As it will be an overcast Friday, then it's quite likely to be raining on Saturday, so you show up then and defend yourself against the techniques I threw.

I'm gonna kick your arse!

Chang Style Novice
11-09-2004, 08:37 PM
I've been to a goodly number of Hellaciously Great concerts myself, but the list is a lot shorter than the hellaciously great albums list, so I'll throw out a few.

Fishbone - at least thrice, probably more. Texas Union Ballroom, Liberty Lunch, One World Festival (this is the three day event with James Brown on Friday, Bunny Wailer on Saturday, and P-Funk on Sunday. Warmups included Fishbone (natch) De La Soul, Toots and the Maytals, Joi, and Spearhead.)

P-Funk at the Austin Opera House. They were headlining SXSW, and when the lights went down I started chanting "Sh!t! Godd@mn! Get Off Your Ass And Jam!" By the time I reached the word "JAM!" the whole crowd was chanting. When P-funk came in, they dropped in right with us on the one. It was amazing. they also had the Fugees and Chuck D come out and rip verses - this was right before "The Score" came out and "Fu Gee La" was tearing up clubs propah.

Sonic Youth and Mudhoney at Liberty Lunch. BRUTALLY LOUD! They encored with "I Wanna Be Your Dog" and I was sure someone was going to die when the speaker stacks started to move.

Iggy Pop and Jane's Addiction - forget the name of the venue. Also BRUTALLY LOUD!

CBGB reunion at Aquafest - Ramones, Blondie, The Heads, Jerry Harrison's Casual Gods.

The Shoulders, many many times. Man, what a great drinking band.

Maceo Parker - whoooeee! That's FUNKY!

Glass Eye, also quite a few times. You've probably never heard of them - they're a bit like early Talking Heads - psycho spazfunk. I miss them.

******** Surfers - the penile reconstruction surgery. The cymbal filled with lighter fluid. The acid. The mosh. BRUTALLY LOUD!

A goodly passel of underground rap shows: Latyrx, Freestyle Fellowship, AceyAlone, Public Enemy, Spearhead, The Roots, Goodie Mob (Outkast, too, but they sucked - go fig.)

A goodly passel of crazy avant-noise jazz: Die Like a Dog Trio, Trio X, Peter Brotzmann Chicago Tentet, The Thing with Joe McPhee, Brotzmann/Ybarra, Geri Allen/Randy Weston, Sam Rivers Trio.

Okay, that's enough for now.

rogue
11-09-2004, 09:01 PM
My first was My Son the Nut by Allen Sherman.
My last was set was Virtuoso by Joe Pass, You do Your Thing by Montgomery/Gentry and The Best of Everclear. And Now That's What I Call Music 17 so I could get that Black Eyed Peas song and 1985.:o

Best Concerts: U2 at the Malibu Beach Club, U2 at Stony Brook U (1984?), U2 and the Alarm at the Pier(NYC 1984?), Ramones at the Malibu Beach Club. The Beach Boys weeks before Carl Wilson died. I've seen more but even the big names weren't that good.


Oh, and I saw Spinal Tap live. Probably the most hilarious show I've ever seen. Ming, I saw them sometime right after the Black Album. It was really funny because about half the people at the concert didn't know they were doing a parody. :D :D

joedoe
11-09-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
OK. I'll go by on an overcast Friday and throw some techniques into the pond. As it will be an overcast Friday, then it's quite likely to be raining on Saturday, so you show up then and defend yourself against the techniques I threw.

I'm gonna kick your arse!

I am going to be too fast for your pithy techniques. I am certain they will all miss

Serpent
11-09-2004, 10:02 PM
Don't try to back out of it now.

Shaolinlueb
11-09-2004, 10:26 PM
first album i cant remember.
first cd i bought was green day dookie.
last cd i bought was acacia strain 3750

top ten discs?
1.) prince - greatest hits 1
2.) prince - greatest hits 2
3.) U2 - best of
4.) Queen - best of
5.) Iron Maiden - Best of the beast
6.) Barrit - smile up the face that murders me
7.) battle royale sountrack
8.) steady & co. chambers
9.) Dragon ash - viva la revolution
10.) simon and garfunkle - best of

Mr Punch
11-09-2004, 11:08 PM
Favourite lives?

Motorhead 1989 Liverpool (some old theatre) were pretty ****in rockin: never knew them before!

Sugarcubes, prob 88, Birmingham Hummingbird. Bjork was still very young, very beautiful and mad as cheese, and Einar climbed up and danced on a 20' stack of speakers and then dived off into the crowd.

Chumbawamba when they were still fairly radical punk maybe 91... the drummer was excellent: a really good performer, juggling and slinging his sticks in the air without missing a beat.

Gil Scott Heron 91 Wolfren Hall, Wolverhampton... he was good, but obviously off his face, and we hitched back with some crazed nurse.

Underworld in maybe 92/3... they had just released that album that made them, and I was off me swedes and roadying... (Sounds like Spinal Tap as it is!!! :D )

Linton Kwesi Johnson, Birmingham Q Club, maybe 93: great venue, great atmosphere and LKJ was the sharpest, coolest and yet most electric entertainer... prob my favourite...

that unforgettable gig in the Q Club where my acquaintance (later a big pyrotechnician) was firing teddy bears from a cannon which unfortunately caught fire and rained down molten teddy bear onto an extremely high crowd (hilarious - esp as I was completely straight)... unforgettable cept I've forgotten who it was... maybe Chemical Bros for House of God in 92...?

Jimmy Cliff, 97, a car park, Toulouse: already an old geezer literally doing cartwheels across the stage, fanbleedintastic!

Electroglide 2001, Makuhari Messe, featuring Darren Emerson, Fat Boy Slim, Aphex Twin, Mice from Mars and many others...

Yoji Biomehanika New Year 01/02, Ebisu Garden Hall... boring New Year techno-concert with some wanky people, then suddenly kicked in...

Electroglide 2002, Makuhari, inc Kraftwerk.

Countless punk and goth gigs from the late 80s early 90s in scores of smokey pub back rooms and some festivals in some fields somewhere inc Sisters of Mercy, UK Subs (huge fight with skinheads...!), SLF, GBH, Conflict, Subhumans/Citizen Fish, Meteors (green paint everywhere!), Cheapsuitoroonies (get it if you can!) and some pretty cool African stuff like Papa Wemba and Yussou nDour.

Better go, getting flashbacks to the shirts... the shirts... oh the horror!!!


:D

Becca
11-10-2004, 02:34 AM
Yep, that's it. Thanx Joedoe.:)

As far as concerts- I don't usually go to many of them. I much preffer open mike night at the Sweet Rock'n Coffee (a very nice coffee house in the hopital district of downtown Denver). There's this really incredable lady who comes and sings. No accompanyment what so ever, just sings. She's really incredable. I am not ashamed to admit that her rendition of "No Charge" brought tears to my eyes.

Ming Yue
11-10-2004, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by rogue
Ming, I saw them sometime right after the Black Album. It was really funny because about half the people at the concert didn't know they were doing a parody. :D :D


Same with the show I saw. It was a legendary mullet night. We brought a banner that said "Spinal Tarp Rocks". I still have my ticket stub.
:D

Oso -- CSN posted it, Maceo Parker. You GOTTA get some of that, the bass work is awesome.

Mr Punch
11-10-2004, 05:57 AM
Serpent and all you wusses who say you can't choose, at least give it a go!! !:)

You can always make another one... :D

Roni Size - Reprazent
Specials - Specials
Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of...
Wailers - Burnin
Wailers - Natty Dread
Wailers - Rastaman Vibration
Wailers - Catch a Fire
The Rockers Soundtrack
Ego Wrappin (Japanese jazz-swing, any one of them)
DKs - Frankenchrist
The Cult - Love
Nirvana - Unplugged

...how many's that? :D

Oso
11-10-2004, 06:25 AM
First Album: Pat Benatar - In the Heat of the Night

Last Album: Charley Hunter Trio - Songs from the Analog Playground

hmmmm......in no particular order

Dark Side of the Moon
Parliament - Tear the Roof Off 1974-1980
Dookie
Billy Joel, best of 2 vol set
Dave Matthews, Under the Table and Dreaming
Kind of Blue
Stabbing Westward - Ungod
Nina Simone-The Colpix Years
Nina Simone - The very best of 1967-1972

all I can think of right now.



I thought you meant Maceo Parker but you'd only said Maceo and maybe not quite in the correct way ;)

I think I have a song where Bootsy and Maceo are playing together but I'd have to look.

Best live show for me was a Merl Saunders show.

But, I've living in the mountains too long and haven't seen any real big acts ever.

Shaolinlueb
11-10-2004, 07:22 AM
i saw GWAR twice with Murpheys Law. those were good shows. Also saw the metal band Testament, that was a good show. Boston puts on a good show. I also saw Aerosmith and Kiss twice this past summer 14th row and back stage. also Godsmack and was like 14th row there too. i love knowing important people. :D

Chang Style Novice
11-10-2004, 09:35 AM
Okay, okay...albums huh? Now, since an album is simply a collection of songs packaged together this could include double albums or fatty-fatty-boombalatty box sets right?:D

The Complete Ella Fitzgerald Song Books on Verve (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000046RN/qid=1100104027/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-6395143-6799261)

The Complete Thelonious Monk on Riverside (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000ZG5/qid=1100103974/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i8_xgl15/002-6395143-6799261?v=glance&s=music&n=507846)

Passions of a Man (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003446/qid%3D1100104107/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-6395143-6799261)

The Heavyweight Champion (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000033K2/qid=1100104144/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6395143-6799261?v=glance&s=music)

Beauty is a Rare Thing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000332J/qid%3D1100104167/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-6395143-6799261)

Star Time (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001G1E/qid=1100104192/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-6395143-6799261)

The Complete Miles Davis on Prestige 1951-1956 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000ZC0/qid=1100104220/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-6395143-6799261?v=glance&s=music)

Bird: Complete on Verve (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000478B/qid=1100104312/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-6395143-6799261)

Unearthed (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000TLA9Q/qid%3D1100104355/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-6395143-6799261)

and one non cheater;)

Entertainment! (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00003WG0M/qid=1100104416/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-6395143-6799261)