Macao wing chun-Ho Kam Ming line

[Vajramusti]

YYlee posteda link to a Macao website several days ago.(Thanks again) The context was muay thai and wing chun.
People are stuck sometimes on uneven information. In any case
some of master Ho's students have done quite well against the Thais.
There are some action shots (WC vMT) in the English language section on the Tam site.

In any case lete me share a posts via one of Tam's students:

Dear Joy

I have seen master Tam. He is very happy to hear from you. He is no doubt Wing Chun is effective against Thai Boxing and he did actually. However, why there are many folks not believe in it because chinese martial arts normally is defined as a kindness, power in mind but not fight. you see thai boxing is different.

1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter.
2. Chi Sau is a practice of your reaction but not always apply to the fight because your opponents don't know Chi Sau so they will not play in this with you.
3. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer. (we have a little introduction in original wing Chun in our web.site)

Actually, it is very difficult to tell you how in words. However, we will renew the information of webpage periodically. Please wait for that.

[Wingman]

Hi Joy,

Can you please elaborate on the points raised below?

1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter.

So if a person is not a good fighter, he should not attack in a straight line? Why?

3. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer.

Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer?

[Vajramusti]

Answering wingman in brackets:
Hi Joy,

Can you please elaborate on the points raised below?
((Sure, I can try))

1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter.

((Biu ma- moving straight in))

So if a person is not a good fighter, he should not attack in a straight line? Why?

((He should work harder first in learning how to move in straight-
before entering a match. Bouncy bouncy is not good wing chun-that is often the other person's game))

3. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer.

Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer?

((No- an English problem- You can stilll get a knock out stepping in and punching. But the chum kiu helps you in close quarters elbows work. Of course the individual is a key variable and how much they have really learned and practiced)))

:

[Wingman]

Hi Joy,

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Wingman
Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer?

As I understand it, Chum Kiu is primarily about learning to track and follow a moving target - i.e. chasing/facing the centreline (the centreline being the two dimensional plane that interconnects your c.o.g with that of your opponent). In other words squaring up to an opponent who has in some way outflanked you. To me its obvious why its necessary to have this ability in a fight - it is unlikely that the opponent will just stand there.

[russellsherry]

hi guys i think if you think you can beat a guy doing thai boxing with chum kill if you think that and the guys good you will
be beaten knowing wing chun and making it work are to diffrent things peace russellsherry

[Vajramusti]

Russell- you can think what you want. Tam has actually beaten Thai boxers.

In depth knowledge of wing chun motions and their creative applications vary widely.
I just commented on yylee's original post.

For me the thread is over.

[russellsherry]

hey joy i was not talking about tam i dont know or care who he is i was talking about chum kill v thai boxers dont talk down to me again if you think wing chun can beat thai "S in the ring well yo dont know to much about wing chun but yo do trainwith augestine fong dont you see i can be smart too russellsherry

[Vajramusti]

Must be a misunderstanding Russell. I was not talking down to you, and I dont think that I ever have. Good night.

[russellsherry]

hey old jong when a person starts with you can think what you like it is not a good way to start a disscussion just so you know.i am one of randy wilaims close friends and people leave their masters get over it russell in my first post i did not say anything bad about ho pupial i was making the point you are going to use\chum kill against thais in the ring in the ring angainst thais we are disavantged if you think we can fight like those guys you are over confident russellsherry

[ntc]

Russel:

Good thai kickboxers are no doubt good fighters, but you have the same is a lot of different styles and arts.... kung fu, karate, bjj... etc. Wing Chun has always had a reputation of being a very direct and effective fighting art in China, and I can definitely say that over the years, WC fighters over there (specifically Hong Kong and Macau) have had quite a bit of success against Thai kickboxers. They've also had their butts whipped as well..... really ultimately depends on the individuals themselves, how they trained, and who they trained under. Wing Chun, especially the conceptual side of it, will provide an individual with sufficient tools to match against an opponent, Thai kickboxer or not, but whether that individual is able to apply or not is another story, and pretty much is very dependent on that individual's own background and training.

My two cents...

[Phil Redmond]

Like NTC said good fighter sare good fighters regardless of what style. It does tough seem like people talk about Thai fighters like they're invincible. They can be checked like anyone else. Kyokushinkai gave Thai boxers a really hard time ;).
Phil

[old jong]

Originally posted by russellsherry
hey old jong when a person starts with you can think what you like it is not a good way to start a disscussion just so you know.i am one of randy wilaims close friends and people leave their masters get over it russell in my first post i did not say anything bad about ho pupial i was making the point you are going to use\chum kill against thais in the ring in the ring angainst thais we are disavantged if you think we can fight like those guys you are over confident russellsherry

Did I say something?...:confused:

[russellsherry]

hi guys, ok in hk in the 50 :S if we are going to get smart about this the hong kong wing chun people were badly beaten by thai
boxers in a tounerment in marco i think they had a rematch led by a certain school who name starts with h took the challenge asked , from tang sang the presedent of the vtta at that time mr
h "S pupials got smashed by the thai boxers so sifu chow zse cheuin stephan chan sifu master can"S si dai wan chung took the challenge andbeat the thai boxers and was asked to sit beside grandmaster yip which was a great honer to chow and his clan know your facts joy russellsherry close range combat austalia

[Vajramusti]

Russelsherry-

I suggest that you do not include me in your posts. I am not really interested in conversations with you. Period. I hope that is clear enough.

[ntc]

Russell.....

Lots of similar stories... I hear a lot of them all the time... Also, I know Stephen Chan personally as a friend, and we share stories from time to time...... WC people kick some butt..... WC people gets butt kicked. Honestly, not really matter who kicks whose butt or whose butt gets kicked, cause in the end, still boils down to the martial artist and not the art, nor where the artist is from.

Thai kickboxers are definitely good fighters, and I have first hand experience with this, but they are not unbeatable, just like from any art. But one thing is definitely true.... if you really don't know your art well or its mechanics or its foundation/basis, then it would seem very unlikely that you would be able to use it, regardless of whether you are going against kickboxers or not.

[old jong]

Originally posted by russellsherry
hi guys, ok in hk in the 50 :S if we are going to get smart about this the hong kong wing chun people were badly beaten by thai
boxers in a tounerment in marco i think they had a rematch led by a certain school who name starts with h took the challenge asked , from tang sang the presedent of the vtta at that time mr
h "S pupials got smashed by the thai boxers so sifu chow zse cheuin stephan chan sifu master can"S si dai wan chung took the challenge andbeat the thai boxers and was asked to sit beside grandmaster yip which was a great honer to chow and his clan know your facts joy russellsherry close range combat austalia

Sorry to intrude in your sweet bubble but!...You should be aware that your own beloved Sifu you are so proned to defend even against harmless humor... has always pretended to be part of Ho Kam Ming descendance through A.Fong!...Are you thrashing your own lineage?...

[ntc]

Old Jong..... I am a bit confused here.... who were you addressing in your post... me? or.... ? And if you were addressing me, could you clarify a bit cause I am totally lost and don't understand your post. Thanks.

[old jong]

Not you ntc!...One of the stiff brothers himself!...;)

[ntc]

Oh, OK, Old Jong... thank you for the clarification. I was a little confused there for a while.... ;-)

[russellsherry]

hi ntc, my friend and direct teacher is steaphan chan top guy and olny reppresenative in oz look i know well their is good and bad in every style but if you step in the ring under their rules our footwork wont hold up and old jong you tell me not to talk to you then act like you did not start trouble well you must be a cry baby russellsherry

[old jong]

What are you talking about?...:confused:

[russellsherry]

old jong you know what i am talking about , by the way my wing chun comes from many source"S wong shun leurng firstly a little twc stephan chan randy willaims of late my wing chun may not be the most pure as it does not come from one sifu but i can make it work you say not to talk to you one thread and make smart comments in others by the way how would you know? weather randy was a good guy or not you have never met him to my knowledge if you have it was olny once russellsherry

[old jong]

See you can write a lot better when you get grumpy!...The only thing missing is a little . or , sometimes but I'm not a master on that myself. ;)
Good for you BTW if you are happy about your Wing Chun.Myself,I had a few experiences before learning from Fong's lineage.These experiences were not totally negative and I retain what I liked and worked for me from these previous learning experiences.
I'm sure that your sifu Randy did the very same from his own learning experiences.

[russellsherry]

old jong , not olny do i type better, when i am pssed i fight better as well, by the way in my first club this ahole always picked on me , he was about you size , and opened his mouth and hit me in the back one time i dropped him roundhouse to the head just for the hell of it thats from billy jack russellsherry

[old jong]

Hey! Me too!...
Last times somebody looked at me in a wrong way,I biu gee'd him in the eyes then I ripped his throat with my bare fingers. Then, I broke both his knees and elbows by stomping on him. Then, I drove over him a few times with my minivan. Then I hitted him a few times with a crowbar.Then I had my boxer **** and **** on him. then, I felt a little better and hungry and I ordered myself a pizza. ;)