The Iron Fist/Calcium Conundrum

[Benjamin1981]

An informational website on calcium supplementing states the following midway through the discourse:

"In fact, many people limit their use of calcium and calcium supplements because of a fear of calcium deposits and kidney stones. When the body is functioning normally, calcium absorption is limited. If you eat more than you need, it isn’t absorbed into the bloodstream, but is excreted with the feces. Urinary excretion only happens when blood calcium levels are inadequate and calcium is being drawn from the bones.

Calcification of the tissues tends to occur where there is some kind of low grade injury. It occurs most frequently in the regions of the shoulder joint (bursitis), the ligaments of the neck and back, around the nerve roots of the spinal cord, in the joints, and in the rib cartilage. Calcification of these tissues is most likely to happen when damage to them occurs repeatedly. Damaged tissues do not become calcified unless serum calcium is inadequate and calcium has been withdrawn from the bones. According to Dr. Gaby’s theory, this could also occur when magnesium levels are insufficient."

Considering this, or your present knowledge of the subject - if one was to get scientifically serious about iron fist, is it a bad idea to drink milk or take calcium during training? What is the scientific process concerning fist training? Where can I find information on this process?

Thanks,

[Benjamin1981]

bumpx0r

[mickey]

Hi,

It has been documented that the body loses the most calcium during sleep, second only to being in space. Maybe it could be minimized by afternoon or evening supplementation.

As for Iron Fist technique, I would not say that I know it; but bag work is good for the hands.

There was a time when Western style boxers had their own type of Dit Da Jow to strengthen the bones in their hands hands: vinegar. But I do not know the length of time they used it for.
Modern day boxers do not do this and hand injuries do happen often.

mickey

[mickey]

I remember being told by a classmate of mine many years ago about one practitioner using vinegar for too long. The bones in his hands went from becoming incredibly hard to brittle, like egg shells. Vinegar encourages the demineralization/remineralization process and there is a point where the demineralization exceeds the remineralization process. Then you have a pair of jacked up hands.

mickey

[Benjamin1981]

You guys are missing the question at hand...
Does anyone know if calcium should be taken or avoided during training?////////////

[Shaolinlueb]

um, i dont know. if you have a regular diet i would say no. if you have a problems, consult your doctor. ask a martial doctor. personally i wouldnt take it. the only thing i have taken is glucosamine, and i limited that because i didnt want my body to become to dependent on the stuff. there are other ways to condition your bones. calcium sint the only answer.

[ShaolinTiger00]

This thread is a petry dish of ridiculous and it's multiplying rapidly.

[Icewater]

If you eat more than you need, it isn’t absorbed into the bloodstream, but is excreted with the feces. While I would not personally supplement with calcium (mostly because I drink milk like a bovine alchoholic) according to that statement it seems that if you have more than you need it will be passed out of the body. So why not supplement and let the excess be removed naturally.

I hardened my knuckles some time ago using makiwara bags but the calluses are long gone. I have also heard of wearing gloves with magnets over the knuckles; and I have seen a documentary on a chinese master that beats a metal block everyday and has built up knucles that look like the business end of a hammer, although his name escapes me.

[Benjamin1981]

His name is Grandmaster Pan Qing Fu, and he is certainly the bomb.

That article indicates calcium is actually bad for you if you WANT calcification. So my question stands... Does anyone know if this is true?

[Golden Arms]

ASK YOUR TEACHER.

If your answer to that question is "I dont have one" then you should not be doing any of the iron hand training, since without supervision and a pretty good idea of what you are doing, you risk nerve damage, shaky hands, and worse later in life. One doesnt have to look very far to find martial artists in both Japanese and Chinese disciplines that have shaky hands, horrible arthritis, etc from improper or non gradual hand training when they were younger.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Golden Arms
ASK YOUR TEACHER.

If your answer to that question is "I dont have one" then you should not be doing any of the iron hand training, since without supervision and a pretty good idea of what you are doing, you risk nerve damage, shaky hands, and worse later in life. One doesnt have to look very far to find martial artists in both Japanese and Chinese disciplines that have shaky hands, horrible arthritis, etc from improper or non gradual hand training when they were younger.

see some of us arent lucky enough to have golden arms. so its not that easy. i got some chigong stuff my sihings told me from our sigong and some conditioning practices from them, but there are some things i wont divulge on the internet.


edit
to be honest, i never heard of using calcium substitutes.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Golden Arms
ASK YOUR TEACHER.


There are some teachers I would ask and then do the opposite of. Many MA teachers seem to not be entirely up to date with regard to physiology and biology.

That being said, it's not like there's tons of universities doing studies on the effects of MA training.

Altho you guys should look up Wolff's law which deals with bones under stress becoming more dense.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Icewater
While I would not personally supplement with calcium (mostly because I drink milk like a bovine alchoholic)
Why would a bovine alcoholic drink milk?

[WanderingMonk]

Calcification of the tissues tends to occur where there is some kind of low grade injury. It occurs most frequently in the regions of the shoulder joint (bursitis), the ligaments of the neck and back, around the nerve roots of the spinal cord, in the joints, and in the rib cartilage. Calcification of these tissues is most likely to happen when damage to them occurs repeatedly. Damaged tissues do not become calcified unless serum calcium is inadequate and calcium has been withdrawn from the bones. According to Dr. Gaby’s theory, this could also occur when magnesium levels are insufficient."


I think you should read this again. It says tissures. the tissues it discusses are ligaments. your iron fist are building bone mass and not ligament in this case. so, if you have ligament injuries, this is an issue. you were planning to do iron fist training which supposed to strengthen the bone in the fist and not necessarily the ligament.

think about it, they do ads telling people to drink milk because it has calcium to build healthy bone (plus vitamin D neeeded for Ca to be absorbed). If your interpretation was right, then these ads are all fraud. because too much calcium is bad for your bone. you should contact the fcc about the milk ad for fraudent advertisement.

[Serpent]

Milk ads are fraudulent anyway, but that's another story. Also, iron training will strengthen and thicken the ligament to a degree, but that has nothing to do with calcium.

[Becca]

Damaged tissues do not become calcified unless serum calcium is inadequate and calcium has been withdrawn from the bones.
Work on your reading comprehention, dude. This is not an issue if you get enough calcium, only if your body fails to absorb enough of it to keep from leaching your bones. The best way to prevent this is to get enough vitamin D. You don't have to drink milk to get calium, either. Green leafy veggies like spinich and bak choy are loaded with it. If you get enough sunshine out doors, your body will produce adiquate vitamin D.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Becca
Work on your reading comprehention, dude. This is not an issue if you get enough calcium, only if your body fails to absorb enough of it to keep from leaching your bones. The best way to prevent this is to get enough vitamin D. You don't have to drink milk to get calium, either. Green leafy veggies like spinich and bak choy are loaded with it. If you get enough sunshine out doors, your body will produce adiquate vitamin D.
Becca has force fed the correct heaps of spinach and stolen it's milk money.