Protein... supp or not?

[Mr Punch]

I currently train a little light stuff everyday, forms, shadowboxing etc.

About once or twice a week I have training inc chi sao and when I can full-contact sparring, plus all the drills and forms and stuff.

About once a week I do trainforstrength's workouts and some other bodyweight exercises. I'd like to start doing them twice and then three times and then maybe more a week, time dependent of course.

I'm 6'1", I'd always eaten like a horse, but I'd been veggie from 14-19, vegan from 19-27 and then since then I've been eating lots of fish, eggs, cheese etc, but still no meat or chicken.

I was 63 kg until three years ago, then I pretty much quit smoking, trained more strength-training (mostly bodyweight) and harder fu. I went up to 72 kg and peaked about a year ago, and have now pushed myself up to 76 kg in the last few months, but I can't possibly eat any more fish or eggs, and the cheese will make a spare tyre (though I am and have always been pretty much fat-free).

I'd like to do more of those bodyweight exercises (I hate weights but may go to them if I can't achieve anymore weight any other way) for strength and endurance (I seem to be gaining both still from them, and I can't do all of them all of the time), and I'd like to gain another 9 kgs or so.

So it seems to me, that protein supps are the way forward until I peak aggain, and then weights.

So, what supps are the best? Content/brand appreciated... or any other advice.

[Toby]

I'm in Oz and I get my protein from Myopure (http://www.myopure.com.au). Personally I feel that's the best option for me. It's almost pure protein at a very good price. Lots of info about it on his site. Personally I think buying a protein mix is a bad idea, since you're paying for labels and mixtures that you could make yourself. With mine, I can drink it straight up with milk or mix it with diet flavouring. I'm impartial - both taste good. You can also mix it in with yoghurt etc. So my vote is find somewhere in Japan where you can get as pure as possible protein. If you're interested, I use whey protein concentrate and calcium caseinate from that site.

[IronFist]

Protein supplements are expensive. Save your money unless you really need them. How do you know if you need them? If you can get enough protein from regular food then you don't need them. If you're actively trying to put on muscle (proper diet and exercise) then you should eat about 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. If you're not trying to put on muscle, it's a little less. If you're trying to put on muscle and you're using steroids, you'd probably want 2 or 3g per pound of bodyweight per day.

(google - 76kg = 167 pounds)


I'd like to do more of those bodyweight exercises (I hate weights but may go to them if I can't achieve anymore weight any other way) for strength and endurance (I seem to be gaining both still from them, and I can't do all of them all of the time), and I'd like to gain another 9 kgs or so.

Ok, well 6'1" @ 167lbs is still kinda skinny depending on your bf levels. If you want to gain another 9kgs (20lbs) of muscle you're probably not going to do it with bodyweight exercises (altho I could be wrong). At any rate, it's up to you to decide if you can eat 167g of protein per day naturally. You probably can, depending on how much you eat, but if not then you might want to consider protein supplements. Really the only people who need protein supplements are hardcore bodybuilders who need 300-400g of protein per day (or more) cuz you can't really eat that much.

But if you want to gain some weight, there's no replacement for lifting big and eating big.

[Serpent]

And don't neglect the carbs. It's not all about protein - you needa carb fire to burn up and process the protein. You're in Japan - eat lots more rice. ;)

[Toby]

Yeah Iron, but protein powder is the cheapest way per g of protein. I mean, you can eat a steak, but that's only 20-30% protein so you're paying for all the water and saturated fats as well. Not to mention Mat's in Japan where meat is $400/kg :D. I'm not disagreeing - most people will get enough protein from a regular diet, but if you want more, powder's the cheapest way.

Mat, if you're like me and up protein while decreasing other macronutrients, do yourself a favour and invest in some fibre ;). I eat a large bowl of 45% fibre bran cereal each morning. You could also take psyllium (sp?) husks etc. Your body will thank you ;).

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Toby
do yourself a favour and invest in some fibre ;). I eat a large bowl of 45% fibre bran cereal each morning. You could also take psyllium (sp?) husks etc. Your body will thank you ;).
This is good advice whether you supplement protein or not! ;)

[rubthebuddha]

agreed. a great trademark of a healthy person is whether or not they have their **** together. ;)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
agreed. a great trademark of a healthy person is whether or not they have their **** together. ;)
:D

[Serpent]

(Haha, I love it when mods circumvent the language filters! ;) )

[Toby]

On a tangent - Aussies if you haven't already check out kangaroo meat. If you don't mind the flavour (which I don't) it's a great meat with the usual protein content but low saturated fats. The best part is that I guess due to a reputation as pet meat it's 1/2 the price of beef.

[Serpent]

Yep - and it bbq's up a bloody treat!

[Mr Punch]

Cheers all.

Toby, that's exactly the kind of info/recommendation I was hoping for... brands and the like, tho the most common and cheapest over here is Weider of course.

Iron, my bf is pretty low for a normal 32 year old geezer with a normal diet. I don't know what until I check my last medical results and dunno where they are, but something like 12% as far as I remember.

I think there's some room to gain with more bodyweight exercises, before I start weights (and to be honest I hate weights)...

and the protein problem comes from my diet. How much of it is protein and how much is other stuff and how much is digestible protein etc...? If anyone knows any good sites that can help me out with that kind of thing...?


Typical day with training:

2 x 20g cans of low fat tuna
5 egg whites
2 whole eggs
8 plates of sushi (no idea how much fish that is... I'll ask someone!)
1 whole bream/mackerel/oily fish, or a steak of salmon/tuna/bonito etc
50-100 g cheese (full fat! :eek: ) / 50-100 g shrimp/squid/octopus

and as for my veg and carb intake, I'm pretty sure I'm healthy since I was a vegan/veggie restaurant cook for a year, and learned a smattering of nutrition at uni, and basically think I'm still a veggie despite wolfing half an ocean a day, so my veggie intake is prodigious...

Any more advice would still be appreciated...:)

[FatherDog]

What's kangaroo taste like, anyway?

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by FatherDog
What's kangaroo taste like, anyway?

Chicken of course...:p

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Toby
Yeah Iron, but protein powder is the cheapest way per g of protein. I mean, you can eat a steak, but that's only 20-30% protein so you're paying for all the water and saturated fats as well.

I don't usually care about percentages. I care about grams of protein per dollar. Yes, protein powder is usually 80% protein or so if you're looking at volume, but is it the best deal as far as g per dollar? That's the question.

If steak doesn't work then eat chicken. Chicken has a higher percentage of protein makeup and is like 30-40g of protein per breast.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by FatherDog
What's kangaroo taste like, anyway?
It's got a taste and texture not unlike beef, but it's a lot more gamey. Some people don't like it because it is too strong in flavour. It's all about the preparation though.

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
I don't usually care about percentages. I care about grams of protein per dollar. Yes, protein powder is usually 80% protein or so if you're looking at volume, but is it the best deal as far as g per dollar? That's the question.Yes, by far. Take this (http://www.myopure.com.au/Compare.html) with a grain of salt since that's my protein vendor, but pretty much what they say there is true for the back-of-envelope calculations I've made. Then again, their protein is pretty cheap - a more expensive powder might not work out so reasonable - or one of those pre-mixed ones.

[fa_jing]

Mat, I think you eat more protein already that I do, and I feel like I'm getting plenty. And I eat less than 100g/day in protein. I also outweigh you by 25 pounds, at the same height, and not too much more bodyfat. OTOH, when I was drinking shakes it did help me gain weight.

If you want to put on muscle, you will need to follow a hypertrophy protocol, which it doesn't sound you are doing (remembering your past workouts). I think that's more important than massive eating for putting on muscle, despite what you may hear to the contrary. Those kinds of workouts where you are all sore afterwards, make you want to eat alot anyway. Just continue to eat heartily and healthily, and you will be fine. You probably need to cut down on the number of times a week you work out, and yes, cut some of the cardio out if you want to gain weight.

BTW I was watching a show about the fish market in Japan, and they were showing a Tuna which they said would sell for $10,000. Is sushi any less expensive in Japan than it is here? A sushi combination here with 13 pieces + maki goes for about $17 dollars.

[scotty1]

Fa-jing I like your post.

I'm an ectomorph and am 5'9" at about 70kg.

For ages I've been pretty obsessive about how much protein I get, taking supplements that taste like sh!t and alter your...pattern. :D

It's been something that's on my mind all the time, you know?

And I have put on weight and muscle to be fair, but I'm not sure if that's cuz of the obsesive protein eating or starting tai chi 18 months ago and the excellent conditioning methods. Or both.

There is no way I can seem to get the 1g per 1 lb requirement in, not even with supplements.

So what I'm going to try now is - I'm going to forget about it. :)

Just eat heartily and healthily (as you say) and not worry about it. And see what happens.

[Mr Punch]

What's a hypertrophy workout?
Originally posted by fa_jing
BTW I was watching a show about the fish market in Japan, and they were showing a Tuna which they said would sell for $10,000. Is sushi any less expensive in Japan than it is here? A sushi combination here with 13 pieces + maki goes for about $17 dollars. Most kaitenzushi (the conveyor belt numbers) are between Y100 and Y150 a plate, a plate being 1-4 pieces depending on the quality/cut of the fish. The better end of the kaitenzushi stuff goes for about Y500 for one or two pieces.

In the real sit-down sushi restaurants you can pay up to Y10000 a plate, I am not kidding. For an average set of maybe 9-15 pieces you're looking at Y1000-2000. There are currently about Y105 to the dollar BTW.

[Toby]

Originally posted by Mat
What's a hypertrophy workout?A workout where the main goal is muscular size building as opposed to strength, endurance, etc.