Muay Thai Forms?

[Sim Koning]

I was watching Ong Bak (Thai action movie) the other day and I noticed early on in the movie they show the hero of the movie doing what looked like a muay thai form. I found it to be very interesting and thought the form looked very unique. Does anyone here know if that was a form from one of the older thai arts? Are those forms still practiced at all by modern Thai boxers?

[mickey]

Greetings,

That I do not know. But I have a feeling that it will be a long time before we see the Temple Arts of Muay Thai. I remember seeing a photo of a lineage holder and master practitioner of the Temple Arts who had passed away a few years ago. His fighting posture looked nothing like what we associate with Muay Thai; it looked like Ba Gua. Open palms, twisting body--definitely food for thought.

mickey

[ShaolinTiger00]

Wai Kru - paying respect to your teachers

Ram Muay - the actual dance.

[Sim Koning]

Did you see the movie ST? It wasn't the dance you see Thai boxers performing before a fight, it was a form with the fighting techniques of muay thai and they even had poetic names like in the Chinese arts, which he called out as he did them. It didn't look made up at all, nor was it a ripoff of kung fu, it looked very Thai. I would like to see more Thai forms like this. I'll try to do some research on the net and see what I can find.

[Sim Koning]

interesting, it seems to be an older form of muay thai called mae mai luk mai. Whats very intersting to me is that many of the techniques I see are in Hung Gar and Jow Gar, such as the double uppercut, which can be found in many of our forms. I'm starting to think there is a distant connection between some southern Chinese arts and older Thai arts.

here is a link. http://www.chaophraya.co.uk/Mae_Mai_Luk_Mai/mae_mai_luk_mai.html

[yenhoi]

Master Chai's USA Thaiboxing Assoc. has many "counts" or "long-combos" that whould count as forms.

The first three basics ones are called:

15-Count Long Combo
17-Count Long Combo
18-Count Long Combo

Etc.

There are also traditional dances for all stables for all occasions.

:eek:

[SevenStar]

there are indeed traditional dances. As for the descriptive names, muay thai is full of them. for example, the spinning hook kick is called "crocodile whips it's tail". thai boxing categorizes it's techniques into arcing and thrusting categories. arcing includes the hook kick, roundhouse, etc. thrusting includes teep, back kick and sidekick. There is more than what you see in the ring, but what you see in the ring is what has proven itself as most useful.

there are many eras of muay - muay chaad cheurk, mae mai, look mai, kon, muay boran, etc. These all refer to what muay thai was during that time. each era brought something different to muay. Muay chaad cheurk was the introduciton of the hand wraps we see today. muay thai is the current muay that has been around since the 1920's. This is what you mainly find being taught today.

[yenhoi]

There is a thread somewhere on the WCK forum that proves thai boxing comes from wing chun.

;)

[Sim Koning]

There is a style in Thailand that came from Wing Chun, but its not muay thai. It even has the siu lim tao form minus the triangle stance. If you have heard a contonese and thai person count, you will notice that there is a connection between the two cultures.

[David Jamieson]

go******! MOvies are not reliable reflections of martial arts.

there, I've said it. But having said that, traditional Muay Thai ain't the same as teh ring fighting here in teh west and in fact, really ain't similar to teh sportified version that is HUGE in thailand. There is a spiritual aspect and a whole course of offerings in the teachings of south east asian martial arts and thai martial arts specifically.

Most muay thai pracs here in teh west have never even heard of grabi grabong for instance, but in traditional muay thai, it is part and parcel.

For other context, look at how san da proponents here desperate seek to extract themselves from their kungfu roots, or how mma-ists who have no trouble co-opting stuff can't wait to become dissassociated from that which they borrow. lol

ah well, nothing is new under the sun, practice hard and pay attention.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Sim Koning
There is a style in Thailand that came from Wing Chun, but its not muay thai. It even has the siu lim tao form minus the triangle stance. If you have heard a contonese and thai person count, you will notice that there is a connection between the two cultures.

I'm not an expert on thai arts, but I've only heard of three arts coming from that region - the various muay, krabbi krabong and lerd rit.

[Sim Koning]

If I can find a page about I'll post a link, though it might take a while.

[SanSoo Student]

I personally have only learned like one or two traditional Ram Muay dances, the ones used in the ring before a fight.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SanSoo Student
I personally have only learned like one or two traditional Ram Muay dances, the ones used in the ring before a fight.

different camps have a different dance, as the dance signifies different things.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Sim Koning
There is a style in Thailand that came from Wing Chun, but its not muay thai. It even has the siu lim tao form minus the triangle stance. If you have heard a contonese and thai person count, you will notice that there is a connection between the two cultures.

I found the article, but it sounds bogus. I'm trying to find more stuff on it. The style they are referring to is called ling lam... I've heard of it, as referenced to lerd rit - it was taught to the thai military and is said to have chinese and japanese influences, but I haven't heard that it was based on wing chun...

http://crane.50megs.com/index6u.htm

[omarthefish]

Sorry to dissapoint the rest of you guys but the form at the beggining of Ong Bat was a traditional form in the most traditional sense. As long as any Chinese form and complete with funny peotic names for the moves. It was not an extra long combo or a ritual dance but a form.

It was from one of the older "temple styles" of Thailand called Muay Lau Lau. Very much like Chinese Gong Fu.

How do I know this? Because when the movie came out I was training Muay Thai under a guy from Thailand and I talked about the movie a lot with my instructor to clear a few things up. My brother had just had an employee come back from Thailand and brought the movie with him even though it had no English subtitles....no subtitled version had been released yet. But my instructor was a fan of the movie, knew who the lead was and told me qbout how the style "Muay Lau Lau" was displayed in it.

Incidentally, he also said that the contest in the beggining where every one in the village climbs the big tree is also something they do in certain parts.

It is one of my favorite all time action flicks. Truly amazing.

[Shaolinlueb]

I'm liking this thread and the responses. I was wondering about that in the movie too, cause I didnt think mauy thai had any forms. this is very interesting. :D

[SevenStar]

muay lau lau isn't muay thai. As I said in an above post, it's part of the history of muay thai, but isn't muay thai itself. There are various muay. If I'm not mistaken, krabbi krabbong has forms also. It's believable that much of the old muay had forms. Old style muay had several techniques and strikes (such as the double uppercut that was mentioned) that aren't taught in muay thai.

I am anxious to see the form though. the capoeira instructor at our school has a copy of it, I'm waiting for him to bring it to me.

[FuXnDajenariht]

what are some other thai styles? ive heard of lerd rit before...

anyone have a site with descriptions?

[SevenStar]

most people have heard of lerd rit because of the street fighter series. bison's style was listed as ler drit. if you do a search on ler drit, you will come up with millions of SF II links. if you search for lerd rit, you will come up with more relevant stuff.

As a side note, in the japanese version, the names of the bosses are different than in the states. the boxer was m. bison (think about it... m. tyson...he DOES look like him...), the thai general was vega and the crazy spaniard with the mask was balrog (I wonder if the creators were LoTR fans?)

Anyway, back OT, for various muay, there was muay boran, muay chaad cheurk, muay thai, mae mai, mai look, kon...

then there was krabbi krabong, ling lom/lerd rit (I think they are the same, but not sure) and whatever others there may have been. Omar listed muay lau lau.

I've got no clue exactly how many muay there have been...

As for descriptions, I haven't seen any online, but you can check out the book "muay thai: a living legacy" It gives slight descriptions of a few of them.